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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, George Nori with you. Courtney mcin bail back

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Speaker 2: with us. Founder of the Seaside Shadows Haunted History tours

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Speaker 2: in Southern Shadows. A published author, She's got several books out,

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Speaker 2: including Civil War Ghosts of Connecticut Civil War Ghosts of Georgia,

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Speaker 2: Volumes one and two. She's a former US government investigator

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Speaker 2: with the background in international relations. Courtney blends her expertise

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Speaker 2: and historical research and true hauntings to bring authentic stories

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Speaker 2: to life. Courtney, welcome back to the program. Thanks George,

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Speaker 2: looking forward to this. What did you investigate for the

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Speaker 2: government if you could tell us?

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Speaker 3: Sure, I actually worked for the Department of Justice in

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Speaker 3: counter terrorism, so I worked closely with human assets.

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Speaker 2: Are there scary things that we really don't even know

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Speaker 2: about as public?

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Speaker 4: I think so.

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Speaker 3: But I also think that we are aware of more

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Speaker 3: than the government lets us know we're aware of. There's

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Speaker 3: not as many secrets as we think.

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Speaker 2: Now, that's true, and I guess now knowledge is even better,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I mean I sometimes think I have more capabilities outside

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Speaker 3: the government to acquire information than I did when I

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Speaker 3: was in it.

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Speaker 2: Now, how did you make that shift to the world

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Speaker 2: of haunted history and the strange and unusual paranormal.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really good question.

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Speaker 3: So I grew up in a house that was sort

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Speaker 3: of plagued with a lot of unexplained activity, and when

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Speaker 3: I was a teenager, the Warrens came to investigate. But

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Speaker 3: because I lived in a small town, I was kind

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Speaker 3: of embarrassed by.

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Speaker 4: All of that.

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Speaker 3: And when I went to college, I did everything I

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Speaker 3: could to avoid sort of being looked at as the

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Speaker 3: weird person who had ghosts in our house. So I

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Speaker 3: studied international relations, I worked for the government, and then

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Speaker 3: when I was working for the government, I actually found

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Speaker 3: that I just really wasn't a nine five sort of

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Speaker 3: office kind of person. I still had all these questions

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Speaker 3: about there being more to the world. I had a

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Speaker 3: love for history, and I met someone who was actually

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Speaker 3: living in Vermont at the time, and I was doing

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Speaker 3: an assignment there, and it was a woman named Theo Lewis,

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Speaker 3: and she ran ghost tours and wrote haunted history and

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Speaker 3: I was so inspired by her and had lunch with her,

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Speaker 3: and she encouraged me that I could do the same

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Speaker 3: in my home state, and that's where I started.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever figure out how the house got so haunted?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there were.

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Speaker 3: Quite a few things. I tell everyone, it was a

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Speaker 3: perfect storm. There was definitely Native American burial near the site.

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Speaker 3: And then also my father was working at the time.

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Speaker 3: He was a police officer, but he was also self

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Speaker 3: employed with something called post mortem cleanup where he helped

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Speaker 3: sort of clean up after homicides and suicides, and there

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Speaker 3: was some belief that some things also sort of attached

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Speaker 3: themselves through position and came to the house.

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Speaker 2: He had probably one of the worst jobs out there.

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Speaker 1: You know that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it's so depressing and so difficult, and I

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Speaker 3: think it was hard on him, and I do think

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Speaker 3: spiritually there were definitely attachments of some kind.

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Speaker 2: I knew a guy who did the same thing as

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Speaker 2: your dad did out of Saint Louis, and he just

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Speaker 2: hated it. He got paid well, but he just hated.

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Speaker 3: The job right right, And it's definitely a niche thing.

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Speaker 3: And I think, you know, my dad thought he was

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Speaker 3: someone because of his police work that would be able

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Speaker 3: to handle it. But it's probably more than anyone could imagine.

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Speaker 2: Tell me, about Chickamunga, Georgia.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so Chickamaugat.

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Speaker 3: That's actually where I'm sitting right now. It's in the

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Speaker 3: northwest corner of Georgia, sort of the foothills of Appalachia,

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Speaker 3: and it is the site of the second bloodiest battle

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Speaker 3: in the Civil War, second only to Gettysburg. I'm actually

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Speaker 3: looking at the battlefield as we speak, over thirty thousand

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Speaker 3: casualties in a period of two days, and it has

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Speaker 3: just become a place immersed in legend and lore and

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Speaker 3: haunted stories. And that's where we're going to be starting

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Speaker 3: Southern Shadows in the next few weeks.

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Speaker 2: A lot of Civil War action that way too, isn't there.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So Chickamauga.

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Speaker 3: The battle was in eighteen sixty three in September, and

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Speaker 3: that's the second deadliest battle in the Civil War.

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Speaker 2: What is it, Courtney about trauma that creates so many

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Speaker 2: paranormal activities.

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Speaker 4: That's a really good question too. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of it has to.

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Speaker 3: Do with our energy. I've spoken with park rangers at

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Speaker 3: a lot of these battle sites as well, and they

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Speaker 3: think a lot of the pain and anguish and fear

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Speaker 3: that comes in a battle is so strong that it

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Speaker 3: permeates sort of into the energy of the earth and

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Speaker 3: the air around it, so much so that that area

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Speaker 3: is never the same. Now, some people think that makes

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Speaker 3: it a port. Other people think that it's the energy

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Speaker 3: of what happens that stays with there. But because of

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Speaker 3: the absolute just all those big emotions and feelings of

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Speaker 3: pain and fear and anger happening in such a rapid

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Speaker 3: moment and in such great number, there's something that changes

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Speaker 3: in the energy of that region when it happens.

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Speaker 2: And now where did you start Seaside Shadows.

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Speaker 3: Seaside Shadows started in Mystic, Connecticut. I'm from Connecticut, my

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Speaker 3: mom is too. My dad's from Georgia, so that explains

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Speaker 3: why I'm sort of having tours in both locations for

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Speaker 3: both sides of my family. Seaside Shadows is on the

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Speaker 3: shoreline and Mystic, so kind of opposite to the mountains

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Speaker 3: of northwest Georgia. But shoreline Mystic where we feature the

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Speaker 3: old sea captain's shipping history, everything that has to do

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Speaker 3: with pirates and the shipwrecks and the Revolutionary War specifically,

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Speaker 3: there is what we feature with Seaside Shadows.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: We'll come back to that in a moment, but tell

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Speaker 2: us a compelling ghost story from the Civil War Ghosts

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Speaker 2: of Georgia.

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Speaker 4: Sure.

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Speaker 3: So, there are so many ghost stories when it comes

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Speaker 3: to Georgia, and it's hard to narrow them down. Where

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Speaker 3: I am right now, there's a famous legend called green Eye,

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Speaker 3: so much so that they even have a festival about

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Speaker 3: it where the story goes that because Chickamauga sits on

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Speaker 3: a river called the River of Death, that is what

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Speaker 3: Chickamauga means. They was believed that there was this Native

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Speaker 3: American sort of spiritual energy that would come and consume

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Speaker 3: parts of people and the souls of people when they died,

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Speaker 3: and when there would be big diseases around the Native Americans,

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Speaker 3: that this creature would surface. When the Battle of Chickamauga happened,

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Speaker 3: suddenly soldiers reported seeing sort of these green eyes in

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Speaker 3: the distance and it would be swooping over souls. Now

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Speaker 3: I found that really interesting because people thought it was green,

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Speaker 3: but then it started to appear human like. And there's

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Speaker 3: a road on the battlefield called the Glen Kelly Road,

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Speaker 3: and people report that a man walks down the road

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Speaker 3: with scraggly hair.

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Speaker 4: He asks for a ride.

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Speaker 3: You stop and he says nothing, and when you drive by,

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Speaker 3: a big grin engulfs his face and he vanishes into

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Speaker 3: the trees, and they swear they see green eyes as

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Speaker 3: he vanishes.

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Speaker 2: There's a moral to the story. Don't pick up a

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Speaker 2: guy who doesn't say anything.

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Speaker 4: Right, that's right, that's right. You just keep driving.

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Speaker 2: Moving if pete, don't bother me. Now, just keep going,

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Speaker 2: that's right. Have you heard of a haunted story of

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Speaker 2: a woman dressed in white? Yes, for truck drivers seeing

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Speaker 2: him on the side of the road and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, she's very famous.

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Speaker 3: She's kind of known as the hitchhiking ghost or the

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Speaker 3: Lady in White, and she comes in many different carnations.

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Speaker 3: Even Chickamauga has a lady in white that is believed

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Speaker 3: to be a grieving widow of some kind. But most

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Speaker 3: of the time when the Lady in White appears, she's

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Speaker 3: on the side of the road. She asks for a ride,

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Speaker 3: she vanishes from the backseat, and if you speak to

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Speaker 3: the person who resides where you were dropping her off,

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Speaker 3: they usually say, oh, that's so and so. She died however,

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Speaker 3: many years ago, and it's become quite a famous ghost story,

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Speaker 3: with sightings all across the country, and the Lady in

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Speaker 3: White has several legends. I know of one in Connecticut

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Speaker 3: called Midnight Mary, where she was a real woman who

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Speaker 3: passed away and people swore they.

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Speaker 4: Gave her a ride.

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Speaker 3: An elderly man answered the door and said he didn't

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Speaker 3: know anything about her, but the people that lived there

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Speaker 3: before were her family, and supposedly she still pops up

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Speaker 3: at midnight. People say not to give Midnight Mary a ride.

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Speaker 3: So the Lady in White, the hitchhiking ghosts. There's whole

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Speaker 3: books written about that particular phenomena.

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Speaker 2: There's a movie that from nineteen eighty eight called The

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Speaker 2: Lady in White. Does that have anything to do with

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Speaker 2: the real paranormal issue?

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Speaker 4: Oh? I haven't seen it? It very well might?

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Speaker 2: I know?

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Speaker 3: There's lots of films in popular media. If there's a

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Speaker 3: show called Supernatural that ran for years, and I believe

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Speaker 3: the pilot episode or one of the first episodes is

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Speaker 3: all about the Lady in White. So it's something that

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Speaker 3: definitely popular culture has pulled onto and made it even

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Speaker 3: more well known.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, rented Lady in White. I'd love to get your

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Speaker 2: views on it.

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Speaker 4: I will, I will.

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Speaker 2: When you got into any of this, you were an

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Speaker 2: investigator with as you just said, the Department of Justice.

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Speaker 2: Did that help your skills?

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Speaker 4: I think it did for me.

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Speaker 3: When I look at stories ghost stories, I find them,

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Speaker 3: of course as fun to listen to by campfire as anyone,

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Speaker 3: and I love getting spooked. But what I always found

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Speaker 3: made it the most compelling is if it matched actual history.

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Speaker 3: If it matched actual people and actually li events and

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Speaker 3: things that would say, hey, maybe this really is something

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Speaker 3: that's going on, Maybe there really is a ghost of

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Speaker 3: this person that could pop up out of nowhere.

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Speaker 4: And I use sort of all the investigative skills.

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Speaker 3: I got at the FBI Academy and beyond to make

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Speaker 3: sure that I was making stories that I wrote and

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Speaker 3: put into the tours commensurate with history. I didn't want

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Speaker 3: it just to be a ghost story with no founding,

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Speaker 3: or a ghost story someone told me.

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Speaker 4: I wanted it to match with real events.

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Speaker 3: And using that sort of investigative knowledge has made me

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Speaker 3: really be able to do that and to easily debunk

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Speaker 3: or not debunk evidence as it were, when it gets presented.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about your tours. The first one, of course,

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Speaker 2: seaside shuttels. What do people get when they go on it?

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Speaker 3: Sure, so on all of our tours we try to

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Speaker 3: give everyone an immersive experience where they step back in

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Speaker 3: time and they can imagine the current Mystic, Connecticut or

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Speaker 3: Westerly Rhode Island or Chickamauga as it used to be,

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Speaker 3: and as they set back in time, they're hopefully getting

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Speaker 3: those glimpses of the past by way of ghosts. We

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Speaker 3: bring ghost hunting devices K two meters that people can

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Speaker 3: try out dowsing rods, teach people how to use them,

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Speaker 3: especially when we're in an intimate environment like a graveyard

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Speaker 3: or a haunted location, and we tell people the true

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Speaker 3: stories of the history of the mystery as we like

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Speaker 3: to call it, and show people evidence that guests have captured,

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Speaker 3: and we sort of have this two hour immersive storytelling

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Speaker 3: experience mixed with ghost hunting.

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Speaker 2: Do you drive them around?

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Speaker 3: Ours are all walking tours right now. We are adding

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Speaker 3: some boat tours actually and an old fireboat in Mystic,

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Speaker 3: and we're also adding some vehicle tours so that we

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Speaker 3: can get to areas that not everyone can walk to

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Speaker 3: because there's some pretty unique stuff, especially up in Mystic.

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Speaker 3: We found an old speak Easy that will be featuring nearby.

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Speaker 3: There's also the site where Amelia Earhart got married. That

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Speaker 3: has some spooky stuff, So we want to start bringing

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Speaker 3: people out that way, and same in Chickamauga will be

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Speaker 3: walking through the town. There's a haunted mansion, haunted springs,

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Speaker 3: a haunted old courthouse location. But we want to be

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Speaker 3: able to bring people through the battlefield as well and

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Speaker 3: show them where some of these legends were born.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard of David Politis. No, David Politis is

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Speaker 2: an investigator who has written a book called Missing for

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Speaker 2: One One.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've heard of that, that documentary. I think I

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Speaker 4: watched it on hululeg a Vision.

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Speaker 2: Yes, people in parks just disappear. Yeah, parents with their

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Speaker 2: little kids, they're walking, the kids behind them, they turn around,

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Speaker 2: they're not there anymore. They're gone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. It's scary.

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Speaker 3: And I can tell you, even as someone who frequents

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Speaker 3: national parks, sometimes I'll be in an area where I

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Speaker 3: think I am completely alone, it's just me and the deer,

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Speaker 3: and then suddenly someone you know, comes out from the

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Speaker 3: woods and it doesn't even look like.

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Speaker 4: A trail and they are alive.

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Speaker 3: But you're thinking, where on earth did they come from?

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Speaker 3: How did this connect? It's a little bit spooky.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when the Warrens came to your house

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Speaker 2: in Connecticut?

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 3: I was fifteen years old, so I remember it very well.

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Speaker 2: Were they scary They weren't.

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Speaker 3: I was probably scary because I was an angry teenager

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Speaker 3: and I remember them coming. They really wanted to help,

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Speaker 3: you see. Prior to them their arrival, my mother had

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Speaker 3: called priests and pastors, and all of them had sort

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Speaker 3: of given up on helping our family, saying that it

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Speaker 3: was too spooky, it was beyond their abilities.

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Speaker 4: And so when my mom called the Warrens, ed had

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Speaker 4: been ill.

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Speaker 3: So Lorraine really took charge of the case, and she

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Speaker 3: was very kind to my family. And they came with

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Speaker 3: their team and they talked with us, and they went

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Speaker 3: through the house and they were just the most loving

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Speaker 3: and gentle people and said they really wanted to help

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Speaker 3: our family, and they did. They spent nights there investigating.

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Speaker 3: Lorraine was very religious. She definitely involved prayer in it.

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Speaker 3: I just remember being embarrassed and thinking, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: if people at school find out that these ghost centers

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Speaker 3: are in my house, it's going to be so you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be made fun of. So I remember

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Speaker 3: I kind of had a little bit of a chip

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Speaker 3: on my shoulder.

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Speaker 4: I had an attitude, but they were they were lovely.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people ask if they took money from

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Speaker 3: our family, and they did not. They said that they

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Speaker 3: don't take from people that are experiencing true hauntings that

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Speaker 3: need help. So I had a positive experience with them.

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Speaker 2: And they were from Connecticut originally, weren't they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're from Monroe, Connecticut, which is I was from

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Speaker 3: sort of central Connecticut. They were from more southwest in

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Speaker 3: Fairfield County, so maybe an hour and a half or

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Speaker 3: two hours.

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Speaker 4: Away from where I was.

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Speaker 3: Our home is still there, even though they've both passed away.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, they were Connecticut natives and Catholic, and I

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Speaker 3: was raised in an Irish Catholic family, so I think

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Speaker 3: my mom when she made that call, really connected with that.

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Speaker 2: Well. Tell us about some of those scary things that

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Speaker 2: have happened to you when you're on some of these tours.

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Speaker 3: Sure, so there's no predicting. Some tours just go by

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Speaker 3: like a normal storytelling event. Other tours go by and

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Speaker 3: I will be looking at my guests and there's one

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Speaker 3: time and I remember it really threw me during the tour.

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Speaker 3: I was standing in the cemetery and I was telling

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Speaker 3: the story of a Revolutionary War soldier who actually died

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Speaker 3: in an attack from Benedict Arnold.

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Speaker 4: And I was looking at all.

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Speaker 3: Of my guests as I always do, making eye contact,

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Speaker 3: engaging with them, and I looked at this one man

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Speaker 3: and I was sort of smiled at him while I

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Speaker 3: was talking, and tried to get him to smile back,

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Speaker 3: and he he had this very stern expression and sort

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Speaker 3: of these dark eyes, and so I just moved on

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Speaker 3: to the next person. And then it sort of hit me,

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Speaker 3: like an epiphany, that the man I had just been

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Speaker 3: looking at wasn't someone who had been on the tour

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Speaker 3: prior to that point. He wasn't someone I had checked

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Speaker 3: in upon arrival. He wasn't someone that was dressed like

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Speaker 3: everyone else. And I looked back to see him and

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Speaker 3: he wasn't there. There was an open space as if

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Speaker 3: the guests had felt him there, but he wasn't there.

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Speaker 4: And guests got.

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Speaker 3: Pictures later of what appeared to be a figure on

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Speaker 3: that tour.

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Speaker 4: And I started, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, going over my words, like I am now like

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Speaker 3: over and over thinking, I'm repeating myself. I'm stumbling over everything.

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Speaker 3: It was because I felt like I had looked at

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Speaker 3: that man in the face, and then people had gathered

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Speaker 3: evidence of it on camera, and they had left a

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Speaker 3: space for him, And that was just in the middle

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Speaker 3: of me telling his story on a tour.

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Speaker 2: How many tours are there around the country.

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Speaker 3: I could not tell you exactly how many I know now,

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Speaker 3: you know, when I was younger, it used to be

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Speaker 3: major tourist hubs had them. Now almost every major city

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Speaker 3: in America has them, as well as several small towns.

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Speaker 3: Many are run by small companies, historical societies, people like

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Speaker 3: me who just love ghosts in history and love to

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Speaker 3: write the books. There are some national chains that have

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Speaker 3: opened up, and they've added a lot of locations to

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Speaker 3: sort of the ghost tour industry as it were, But

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Speaker 3: that's also added a lot of controversy to our particular

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Speaker 3: sect of tourism as well.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever had anybody on your tour that breaks

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Speaker 2: down and starts crying?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Oh my gosh, Yes, I've had people cry. I've

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Speaker 3: had people leave. We've been on tours where lights have flickered,

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Speaker 3: We've been on tours where people have sworn something has

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Speaker 3: touched them. And they start crying and they say, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I can't do this.

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Speaker 4: We had one girl leave the tour.

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Speaker 3: She came with the Coastguard Academy cheerleading team. She left

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Speaker 3: almost as soon as it began, after her group took

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Speaker 3: a photo.

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Speaker 4: Left in tears.

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Speaker 3: We looked at the photo later, and sure enough, there

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Speaker 3: was a man looking over her shoulder and the group photo,

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Speaker 3: peering out from the trees.

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Speaker 4: And it had been a.

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Speaker 3: Tour of entirely girls, and she must have felt something

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Speaker 3: and she didn't know what it was, but she ran

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Speaker 3: right out.

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Speaker 4: Of that tour.

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Speaker 2: Was it a ghostly apparition?

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Speaker 3: It appeared to be, because there's no one else who

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Speaker 3: could be, And it just looks sort of like this

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Speaker 3: strange face looking out of the trees at her.

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