WEBVTT - Creature Classic: Fallout Critters 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.520 Welcome to Creature feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:15.760 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.080 and today on the show, we're talking about the creatures 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:23.160 of Fallout, from the rad roaches to the like weird 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.360 naked more rap mutants. Is this accurate? 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:27.880 What this actually happened? 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.800 What do we know about how animals might survive nuclear radiation? 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.599 Discover this and more as we answer the age old 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.920 question what kind of bogus pr campaign our cockroach is running? 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.760 Joining me today is friend of the show, host of 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.880 George Center the podcast Will Pull, also known as Christy 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:46.960 Yamagucci Mane. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.360 Welcome, Thank you, Katie. I appreciate you having me again. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:57.680 Glad to be back and talking about this weird video 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.600 game that my kids are obsessed with. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 I'm thrilled to discuss this. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.440 I've been I've been doing research, mainly through my children 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:13.279 by asking them questions about the Fallout series in the world, 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.959 and they are They've they've been like kind of side 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.039 eyeing me, like why am I asking about all of 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.200 this all of a sudden. So I'm looking forward to 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.200 being educated so I can go back to them and 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:26.959 sound like I know what the hell I'm talking about. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:32.800 Yes, so, I mean using your kids for experiments is 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:38.040 very foulout. But yeah, I've actually so, I've played Fallout 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.560 New Vegas. I have not played the other games, and 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.320 there's a lot of them I do want to play, 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.680 like the really the first ones, the super old one 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.480 with the like sprites and isometrics that looks that looks 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.440 like fun. And I have watched the show. I've got 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.280 like two episodes left, So I'm actually not going to 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.320 do any spoilers for either the show or the games. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.000 So if you are currently watching the show where you 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.920 want to play the games, do not worry. There's no 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:12.280 spoilers unless you would count like talking about the flora 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.040 and fauna of the universe as a spoiler. But personally, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.040 I don't really consider it that we're just going to 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.560 talk about like these animals that we see in the 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.520 show and the games, and whether it actually makes sense 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.240 for them to be that way, and what would have 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:32.799 to happen for us to actually see these weird mutations 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.720 in these monstrosities the series. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:37.440 I love Walton Goggins. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.720 He's probably my favorite creature from the series so far. 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.160 That I have seen, so I don't know if he 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:50.440 counts necessarily. I guess he's considered a ghoul, yes, And 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.280 I don't know what the rules are in the universe 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.640 of the video game that makes him a ghoul exactly 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.800 or why he is, how he kind of came to 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.040 be the way he is. Yes, so it does he count. 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.320 Are we going to be talking about goules in this series? 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.200 I mean, I wasn't gonna go to in depth about 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.480 it because that's sort of squarely in this science fiction 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.120 region where it's like when humans are exposed to radiation, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:25.000 really we just don't do very well. So the idea that, yeah, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.560 the idea that, so the the gules are humans in 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:30.799 the in the games and in the show that are 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.000 exposed to radiation and instead of dying horribly, they kind 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:41.160 of look like sort of like zombies, but they're still 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.080 cognizant and they can live a really long time. They're 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:51.600 essentially immortal, but then they can go kind of it's 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.760 like they can go feral. So if they don't get 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.480 enough of I don't know, it's unclear in the games 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.880 why this happens, but in this show, I think it's like, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.200 if you don't get enough of a certain substance, you 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.840 you can basically lose your mind and turn into a zombies. 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.560 So it's like the it's like the comic book fantasy 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.000 version of what we wish would happen if we were 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:15.320 exposed to nuclear. 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:19.960 Radiationally, yes, this is right. Yeah, in truth, there's not 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.919 the levels of radiation one when be exposed to in 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.880 sort of a post nuclear apocalypse situation, I don't think 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.320 would improve your longevity. There's like some research in that 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:38.560 into whether really really low doses of radiation can actually 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:44.000 be good for you because it can kind of encourage 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.640 anti oxidants in your body, like the production of these 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:54.240 anti free radicals, and so in order to actually kind 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.320 of combat the radiation, your body may also combat other 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.120 disease and stuff. But it's it's the research on it 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.320 is not super clear, which is why you should not 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.320 like intentionally expose yourself to low levels of radiation because 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.200 it could also just give you cancer. 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.280 Yeah. It's just a little too much of a good thing, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:17.240 is is? 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:17.679 Uh? 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.640 Yeah, Yeah, it turns on a dime real quick. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.560 Yeah, it's it's a it's not something to like, it's 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.040 not something to experiment with. Like a Keto diet or 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.080 you know, like I'm going to try cutting milk out 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:31.960 of my diet or whatever. It's like I'm going to 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.360 try just a little bit of radiation to make see 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.159 if it makes me immortal. It's probably not gonna work out. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:39.839 So that I feel like that's why people that fly 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.479 a lot are probably doing with those body scanners. Oh yeah, 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.120 you get but yeah, they're just a little little dost 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.360 morning dust every every time you fly. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.120 Yeah. So the first thing we're going to talk about 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.440 is the I guess I don't know, probably people would 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.719 argue this with me, but they seem like the most 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:05.799 iconic creature of the Fallout franchise, the red roaches, these 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:11.719 giant cockroaches that have been radiated, of course, falling neatly 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.920 into the stereotype of roaches being the one thing that 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.680 could survive a nuclear war. So I'm sure you've like 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.400 heard that, like roaches would survive anything, they'd survive a 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:25.160 nuclear war. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:26.960 Yeah, I have heard that. 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.760 That was like always like a cool factor, like alongside 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:32.960 the fact that you could cut a roach's head off 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.800 and it would survive, for like it would it would 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.359 keep on living, it would starve to death essentially like 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.680 it it would keep functioning but just wouldn't have the 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:47.640 capacity to eat. So, yes, that that was that was 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.440 what like twinkies and roaches were the only things that 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.880 would like survive a nuclear holocaust basically. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.240 Yeah, which is not necessarily true. I mean that Actually 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.280 the head thing is more true in terms of like 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.279 it depends on how much of the head you cut off, right, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.560 Like if you cut off so like there's parts of 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.400 the head you can cut off and the roach will 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.880 still somewhat function until obviously it can no longer survive. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.480 But the same is actually somewhat true of chickens. If 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:24.960 you accidentally missed their basically the part of the the 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:31.400 brain stem, they can theoretically, and in one instance in 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.840 real life survive. There was one chicken that got its 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.000 head cut off and it but the chopping missed a 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.880 large section of its brain stem. So it's still like 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:49.120 chickened around just without and its owner tried to like 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.640 feed it by using a eye dropper to put food 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.559 and water down its neck hole. Yeah it's not great, 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.640 but the point is so with roaches, yeah, they can 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.440 survive a lot. They're very hearty, right, But in terms 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.000 of radiation. While it's true that they can survive more 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.920 radiation than a human, they're a weird like poster bug 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.560 for surviving nuclear falloup because they are by far not 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.960 the most impressive bug. They're not actually that great at 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:29.040 surviving radiation. They are great at exploiting human resources. They 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.360 can even like karate chop parasitoid wasps that try to 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.440 attack them. So, I mean, I don't love roaches because 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.440 I don't want them in my house, but I really 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.880 admire I admire their spirit. But yeah, in terms of radiation, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:48.040 they're not actually that amazing. So there's this great article 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.240 called cockroaches and Radiation by Australian science communicator doctor Carl 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:58.480 Kuzelnikki in ABC's Science that goes into how various insects 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.560 can survive radiation. If you're interested, i'll have a link 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.520 to it in the show notes. They are heardier than 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.640 humans when it comes to radiation. So humans can survive 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.320 about one hundred to two hundred rads. You will probably 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.440 get radiation sickness from that amount, but it's not fatal. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.960 Radiation illness gets progressively worse and more fatal as you 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.760 go from two hundred to a thousand rads, and at 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.120 a thousand rads, you're doomed pretty much to die in 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.320 a horrible way. And this is that too, you're very 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.520 likely to die. But it just gets progressively more and 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:39.120 more bad. 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.160 Yeah, the like I've never. 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:50.720 Like calling them rads is like, yeah, like it's it's 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.680 the funnest sounding way to get poisoned by something measuring 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.080 something that's killing you. It's like, it's, uh like, I 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.160 want like exactly, like a want to increase the amount 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:02.960 of rads on being exposed to. 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:04.440 No, the heck you do not. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.760 Yeah, I just it's it's hard to uh like, I've 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:15.320 never heard that measurement before. So that's the measurement of radiation, Yes, radiation, Okay, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:16.280 units of radiation. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.120 I did not know that they were called rads. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.600 That's the first time that I've I've been exposed, well, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.199 no pun intended exposed to that unit of measurement. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:29.000 They're not typically exposed to that, Yeah, exactly, exactly. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:35.959 Yeah, so so roaches aren't the best at this. Does 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.880 does the paper talk about what insect they have found 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.760 to be the the most hearty when. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.400 It comes to being exposed to this stuff? 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:51.040 Yeah, so just for a comparison humans. The humans survival 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.239 like up to around two hundred rads and we're basically 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.520 okay other than that, like we can't survive higher, but 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.880 it gets more less and les survivable the higher it goes, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.160 until like at a thousand, it's like you're definitely dead. 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.360 But even at four hundred you may very likely die 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.600 at the very least, it's not going to be good. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.400 But cockroaches can survive up to six thousand rats, which is, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.760 you know, like at least three times that of humans, 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.320 although after about a thousand they become infertile, so that's 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.920 not great for continuing your cockroach lineage. So yeah, better 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.880 than humans. But parasitoid wasps so we love to talk 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.960 about these. I mentioned them earlier as getting karate chopped 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:46.320 by cockroaches. So parasitoid wasps are wasps often quite small 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.560 that will lay their eggs inside or on top of 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.360 their prey, their victims, and when the eggs hatch, the 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:59.320 larvae either eats the victim from the inside out or 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.319 it like sucks the juices from on top of them. 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.079 They're called parasitoids because they're not only parasites, but they 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.840 actually end up killing their victims so they they suck 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:09.880 them completely dry. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:12.679 And one of the first episodes I was on, we 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:17.439 talked about, uh, like the zombie snail. Yes, like like 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.400 that that was just like a normal parasite, right Like, 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.000 I feel like we've talked about like almost every episode 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.600 I've been on, there's been some version of a parasitoid wasp. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.600 There's a lot of these these things, right, like, like 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:29.680 the wasp. 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.480 I feel like the wasp is like. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.280 The the like land insect version of a crab, like 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.520 everything like it just like everything ends up being a 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.280 wasp at some point like that, I like, aren't ants 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.320 basically like wingless wasps? 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:52.320 I mean, I don't know they're they're uh, they're related 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.960 to wasps distantly, but I wouldn't necessarily describe them as 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:57.960 wingless wasps. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.800 No, Okay, okay, I feel like I feel like there's 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.040 a lot more insects that I thought were completely separate 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.280 from wasps that it just turns out there another version. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.000 I see, Yeah, there's a velvet ant is actually a 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:12.960 type of wasp. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.679 Maybe that's okay, okay, maybe that's yeah, maybe That's what 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:16.439 I'm thinking. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.360 Of, But a velvet ant is actually not an ant 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.880 at all. It's it's just it is just straight up 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:27.360 a species of wasps. Yeah, exactly. So the one you're 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.280 talking about that we talked when when I had you 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.000 on the show earlier is called leucochloridium. It's a parasitic 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:40.120 flatworm that basically infects snails, turns them into a you know, 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:49.959 a yeah, raving brood sack. But yeah, so for UH, 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.520 in that case, I think the uh snail will accidentally 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.400 ingest the parasite. In the case of these uh parasitoid wasps, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.880 the wasp will lay the eggs in or on the animals. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.640 So these parasitoid wasps, one of the examples being the 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.160 habro break On parasitoid wasp, which is a teeny tiny 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.200 wasp actually, which can be like the size of an ant, 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:19.560 can survive nearly one hundred and sixty thousand rads, although 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.880 they were sterilized around four thousand rads, So one hundred 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:29.160 and sixty thousand that's like, you know, compared to humans, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:34.120 where by around four hundred rads, things are looking pretty grim. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.920 And yeah, I mean, obviously being sterilized is not great, 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.800 but still it's four thousand rads at which they are sterilized, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.240 so that's still quite a big dose of radiation. In fact, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:55.480 irradiated wasps often lived longer than non irradiated wasps, which 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.280 is the idea was that maybe the irradiation made them 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:03.600 a little more act, which may have made them live 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.560 a little longer through some kind of like acquired fitness 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.080 or increased activity like you've given them. Essentially, wasp coffee, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:16.480 which is radiation, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are fitter, right, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.080 Like if they're radiated and they live longer, but their 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.760 reproductive success is worse, that doesn't make it better for them. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:30.040 But essentially radiations seem to be like parasitoid wasp coffee. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:37.600 I can already envision an Instagram ad for like lightly 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.760 radiated coffee as like a new like grift, you know, 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:43.920 like like you know how you know how there's these 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.280 like trends in the health and wellness community or like 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.640 suddenly suddenly everybody needs to do. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.480 Uh, I don't know, I'm trying to think of one. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:16:00.760 Now coffee aenemas or activated charcoal or uh you know 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:06.040 whatever whatever like their current yeah exactly, uh you know, uh, 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.520 get sun in between your butt cheeks. You know, uh 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.360 that that type of thing I could I could imagine 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.000 there being like a like you were saying, like, light 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.360 doses of radiation have been found to free up antioxidants. 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.160 Will we radiate our coffee slightly? Yeah, and give you 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:25.520 a healthy dose each morning? 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.160 Yeah, there's a reason that we do things like our cts, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:35.640 randomized controlled trials and health and safety testing because you know, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.840 I mean, the Fallout series is a great, uh, a 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.880 great way to look at what happens when we experiment 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:49.480 wildly with things without any concern for users. Age. Sure, so, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.760 uh but yeah, the the it is for these walls, right, Like, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.600 if you're a parasitoid wasps parasitoid wasp, things are looking 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:04.040 pretty good for you in terms of nuclear fallout. So, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.120 you know, if I just find it strange that cockroaches 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.800 are the famous ones, like these are the ones that 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.720 would survive. Like, actually, parasitoid wasps are much more likely. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.000 First of all, they're smaller, so they require less nutrition 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:23.520 than a cockroach. And fruitflies are also extremely can sustain 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.800 a good amount of radiation, So there would be conceivably 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.159 some other insects for the parasitoid wasp to feed on. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.480 So as long as some vegetation survives, right, some sources 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:41.080 of food, for like a fruit fly, parasitoid wasps could 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.840 survive and prey on the fruit fly, right, So you 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.240 could have like a little some mini ecosystems of fruitflies 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.880 and other insects parasitoid wasps. So I feel like if 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:55.639 I was, if I was a game developer or writer 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.600 for the show, you can hire me. By the way, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.879 I'm I've got room in my skaled to talk about 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:05.600 parasitoid wasps with you. I would have something like this 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.520 where it's like, sure, make it huge and menacing in 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.119 legs and humans. That would be really fun. It's not, 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.120 you know, I don't know that there would be evolutionary 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.600 pressure to make things big and this we'll actually talk 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:17.840 a little bit more about that. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.199 That's actually one of the question the main questions I 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.600 have is like, is there any real basis for the 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.639 inclination to make these animals big. 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:27.399 That's a great question. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.959 From nuclear nuclear fallout. So we wouldn't have to get 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:30.760 into it right now, but. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.800 We will, you know, we will very very shortly. I 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.320 just want to say that I would, you know, if 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.920 you wanted to have a scene where a mutated parasitoid 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.080 wasp lays eggs in you and then you they burst 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.160 out of you like your pinata full of baby wasps. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.080 I think that would both. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:52.359 Be somewhat based in science, but also have some of 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:57.280 the fun you know science fiction. Yeah, body horror exactly, exactly, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:02.240 just free ideas you know out there for you for 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:07.600 all the Hollywood execs listening to this show about evolutionary biology. Yes, 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:09.959 but we're gonna take a quick break and when we 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.639 get back, we are going to answer that question of 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.120 wha of whether it would really be better for animals 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.160 to get bigger after nuclear war? Right? Is this something 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.080 likely to happen? Are we just going to get giant 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.960 axe Lotel's giant weird bears and stuff? So we will 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.800 be right back. So the TV show, and I think 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.920 a lot of the games are set roughly two hundred 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.000 years after the bombs drop. So would this be enough 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.640 time for these huge evolutionary changes to take place? Would 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.679 radiation speed up evolution this much? Now I know that 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.040 there's like in Fallout lore, without getting into spoilers, there's 0:19:54.119 --> 0:20:00.560 stuff other than radiation driving some of the mutations in people. 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.760 And animals, So it's not all just like natural selection 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.320 and radiation. But let's talk about this idea because like, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.200 I don't think this is too much of a spoiler, 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.840 but in the show, it's like, explain that these cockroaches, right, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.480 they got really big to feed on, like bigger prey, 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.760 and so yeah, let's talk about whether this would happen 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.639 or whether things could evolve that quickly. I mean, the 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.600 thing that is quasi true is that radiation does increase 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.399 the rate of genetic mutations. Usually that's not a good thing, right, Like, 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:38.040 usually that's just cancer or an unviable pregnancy. I think 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.000 two hundred years is a little bit short of a 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:46.800 time span for things to change so dramatically. Sure things 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.119 could get a little bigger or a little smaller in 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.320 that amount of time you could have. I mean there 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.640 are some like we can't observe some evolutionary changes within 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:00.239 our lifetimes, right, Like you know the famous example of 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.880 like beak shape in Darwin's finches, Right, Like, they will 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.560 change over seasons in terms of which kinds of seeds 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:11.680 are more available. So you can sometimes get these observable 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.760 changes within shorter periods of time, within say two hundred years, Yes, 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:20.960 you could get observable evolutionary changes, but would you get 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.760 giant rad roaches like huge bugs? Would this happen? Right? 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.440 And it also it also kind of depends on how 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.119 short the generations are from animal to animal, right, Like 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.960 the gestation period for like large land mammals is a 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.400 lot longer than it is for fruitflies. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.680 Yes, so the fruit fruitflies. 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.480 You know, they have like a lifespan of three days 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.360 in some of them, some of the species. I think 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.240 so like that you would in those two hundred years, 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.480 you would have thousands and thousands of generations of fruitflies 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.199 that could evolve, you know, cool lasers that shoot out 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.320 of their foreheads versus versus like a giant bear or 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:01.560 a giant salamander. 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.280 No, that's exactly right. Giant lasers are more likely to 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.360 evolve out of insects than like a bere No, but 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:12.800 that is correct. Like the smaller and more prolific the well, 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.360 I guess it doesn't have to be small, but generally speaking, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.239 the more prolific an animal is, the more fagundity, and 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:24.320 the shorter the lifespan, the quicker the evolution will be. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.159 If such if evolutionary pressures exist on it. So a 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.800 great example is like viruses in bacteria, they evolve very 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.359 rapidly because the pressure is there on them to evolve. 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.520 They're in a very fast paced arms race with our 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:44.520 immune systems, and they are they reproduce and replicate at 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:50.119 incredible speeds, an incredible rate. So we see evolution happen 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:55.320 in viruses and bacteria in real time, right Like it 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.080 happens within a year. That's why we have like you know, 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.879 yearly flo mutants that give us different versions of the 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.040 flu covid mutates, you know, and so we have to 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.520 like have updates on vaccines. So you know, we do 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:15.680 see rapid evolution in in things like bacteria and viruses 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:19.199 and you know, and so like in insects, you you 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.600 can see perhaps more rapid evolution. I would say that 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.320 in order for us to get big bugs, we need 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.520 to consider a few things. So like insects did used 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.000 to be really big, including not only insects, but also 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:40.960 just arthropods in general during the Carboniferous and Permian periods, 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.159 with the kind of famous examples of the giant dragonfly 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:48.120 like insect that had an over two foot wing span, 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:50.240 which is around seventy that serator. 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:54.080 That yeah, that is I can't I can't picture something 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:59.480 that big. Yeah, in the insect form flying around my head. 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.080 Yeah, like I just eagle sized dragonfly. 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:08.560 Yeah that that is terrifying and fascinating at the same time. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.639 Like yeah it uh oh man, the stuff of nightmares. 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:14.120 Nightmares. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.040 I would love what Yeah, I would be I would 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.200 be like, I would be so morbidly curious. I would 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:22.879 get killed by one because I imagine they have like 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:26.159 giant pincers, like their teeth or something. 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.080 I mean, yeah, they probably would go after larger prey. 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:32.320 I don't think human size though, I mean. 0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:34.480 No, no, no, probably, and I would just get maybe 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:36.639 I would just lose a finger or something. 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:42.280 You know, potentially. But okay, quick question, big bug, which 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:44.280 one if you could choose, which one would you have 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:44.840 as a pet? 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:51.720 Okay, uh, probably a roly poly. 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:56.040 It would be like a giant insect armadillo, you know, 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.919 and like all those all this tiny little uh some 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.119 people call him pill. I guess I always knew him 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:04.679 as roly Polly's. Probably roly Polies. Those are always my 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.280 favorite bugs to play with, like in the yard. 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:11.359