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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome savor prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Lorn Vogelbaum, and today we have a classic

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Speaker 2: episode for you about nutmeg.

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Speaker 3: Yes, oh yeah, what an episode it is?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, this is a good, slash weird, one

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Speaker 2: slash little, it's all those things. It originally aired in

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Speaker 2: November of twenty eighteen. You might have noticed that all

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Speaker 2: of our recent classics have been from like the fall

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Speaker 2: to winter of twenty eighteen, and that's because that's where

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Speaker 2: I am on our classic rotation list. Yeah that makes sense,

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Speaker 2: It makes sense here we are.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that make is a very for a lot

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Speaker 1: of us associated with this time of year, of the

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Speaker 1: holidays in the US in North America. But people use

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Speaker 1: it all the time. I got ella a bit of

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Speaker 1: a bit about it with a friend who was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine it in savory things.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, like a little bit of nutmeg can

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Speaker 2: set things off in such a lovely way. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, perhaps perhaps obviously I say, somewhat snobbly in

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Speaker 2: like a like a kind of sausage sort of situation.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's one of those gets mixed in

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Speaker 2: there with with all of those like nice processed meat

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Speaker 2: products a lot of the time, but also like a

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Speaker 2: really classic French thing to do is to grate just

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Speaker 2: a tiny bit of nutmeg over any kind of cream

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Speaker 2: sauce that you're doing just really sets it off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds good. Nutmeg.

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Speaker 2: It is one of the things that I do to

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Speaker 2: my like goofy like boxed mac and cheese that I

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Speaker 2: miss at home to make it taste like food.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'll keep that in mind because my New Year's

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Speaker 1: tradition now as I eat mac and cheese, okay cool.

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Speaker 1: I mean I also do the the soup that I've

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Speaker 1: described before that uses all the Southern traditional things.

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Speaker 3: But New Year's Eve, I eat mac and cheese.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, so I'll keep that

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Speaker 2: in mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I suppose that we should let former Annie

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Speaker 2: and Lauren take it away.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm Annie Reach.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren Vocal Bomb. And today we're talking about nutmeg.

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Speaker 3: Yes, nutmeg, the nuts a nice spice.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, it's it's nice in terms of flavor.

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Speaker 2: Just historically speaking, every spice ever is horrific.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 1: And I like nutmeg, but I find I almost always

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Speaker 1: overuse it. Oh, it's a very powerful flavor.

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Speaker 2: It's a light touch spice for sure. Yeah, I see,

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Speaker 2: I love an me like. I will put nutmeg on

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Speaker 2: just about anything and everything, like say, very.

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Speaker 3: Sweet, what have you? But again a light touch mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: This was a lesson I had to learn and still

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Speaker 1: apparently I'm I just have a heavy hand. My mom

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Speaker 1: has a word for it. I can't remember. Clumsy head.

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Speaker 1: It's something funny, I'll ask her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, come back.

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Speaker 1: But any way, this brings us to our question, and

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Speaker 1: it's a two parter.

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 1: And what the heck is a pendulous droope?

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Speaker 2: Well, and we promise that the pendulous droop thing has

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Speaker 2: to do with nutmeg.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just some unrelated thing, although I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: put that past.

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Speaker 3: Does a pendulous droop? Okay?

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Speaker 2: A droop is a fruit that grows from a single

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Speaker 2: ovary and contains a single seed or pit think peaches

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Speaker 2: or plums or olives. And pendulous just means hanging rather

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Speaker 2: than being like more dire attached to a branch. So yes,

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Speaker 2: pendulous drup and in some plants, the seed or pit

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Speaker 2: at hand is good to eat, Like you get almonds

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Speaker 2: by cracking up in the pit of an almond tree's fruit,

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Speaker 2: and you get nutmegs by processing a nutmeg trees fruit.

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Speaker 2: So nutmeg is a spice that comes mostly from a

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Speaker 2: plant by the botanical name Murstka fragrance. It's a tropical

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Speaker 2: evergreen tree with glossy, dark green leaves, and all parts

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Speaker 2: of this plant are fragrant. But the part humans are

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Speaker 2: mostly concerned.

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Speaker 3: With is the fruit.

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Speaker 2: These trees grow these yellowish fruits that look a little

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Speaker 2: bit like apricots. Oh. When they're ripe, the fruit splits

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Speaker 2: open along its seam, you know, the like the butt

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Speaker 2: of a peach.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like that seem.

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Speaker 2: And it reveals the pit. And these pits look wild, y'all.

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Speaker 2: It's like something out of a John Carpenter film. Like seriously,

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Speaker 2: they're like shiny and black and partially covered in this

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Speaker 2: bright red, fleshy sort of like thick netting. It looks

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Speaker 2: like Freddy Krueger's face in pit format.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is very important for me to know because

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Speaker 1: I've been on a deep dive of Every Friday, the

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Speaker 1: Thirteenth movie and Nightmare on Elm Street movie and Halloween Movie.

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Speaker 3: It's been a really long Halloween month for me. But

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Speaker 3: long or fabulous.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's been wonderful. But I didn't know one that

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Speaker 1: Jason went to New York. He took Manhattan, and then

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Speaker 1: he went to Hell and that's where he met Freddy, right,

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Speaker 1: and then he went to Space because the FBI was like,

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Speaker 1: let's just send him to space.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's why he ended up in space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's a secret compound under Crystal Lake. We're

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Speaker 1: just sputtering nonsense to never seen Friday the thirteenth.

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Speaker 3: Let's get back to nutmeg.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, So if you take this weird Freddy Krueger

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Speaker 2: looking pit out of the fruit and then scrape off

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Speaker 2: that red stuff and then crack the pit open.

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Speaker 3: Inside you'll find a nutmeg. But you don't want to

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Speaker 3: do that.

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Speaker 2: Like fresh off the tree, these things have to be

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Speaker 2: dried first, traditionally in hot shaded buildings for up to

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Speaker 2: two months. And when the nutmeg seed or kernel starts

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Speaker 2: rattling around and it's pit, it's ready to go. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you've never seen one hole, nutmeg is a dark

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Speaker 2: brown and it looks looks a little bit like a

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Speaker 2: smaller sort of wrinkly pecan in its shell, or like

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Speaker 2: a sort of bloated almond, like if you just sort

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Speaker 2: of puffed an almond up full of full of air,

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Speaker 2: like a balloon. I'm not using any attractive words here,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. It's really not there to be pretty though.

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Speaker 2: The seed or kernel is just packed dense with all

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Speaker 2: of these squiggly little layers of food that would have

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Speaker 2: been used by the seed to grow a new plant.

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Speaker 2: But as it turns out, if you dry out and

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Speaker 2: then grind or grate up that seed stuff, it's delicious

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Speaker 2: to humans too. It's fragrant and warm and woody, with

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Speaker 2: a little sweetness and a little bite.

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Speaker 1: The tree is native to Indonesia's Moluccas aka the Spice Islands,

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Speaker 1: and that's where a lot of it is cultivated, along

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Speaker 1: with the Caribbean, and here in the States it's a

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Speaker 1: popular spice in baked goods, particularly in the fall part

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Speaker 1: of eggnog. I still top my whisky sours with nutmeg

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Speaker 1: when I'm feeling fancy, because remember we went to We

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Speaker 1: went downstairs to a place called eighteen twenty one bitters.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, and she did she shaved some nutmeg over

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Speaker 2: the top of it.

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Speaker 3: And it was amazing. It was beautiful. It was amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a little sweet and very aromatic, but it's

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Speaker 1: popular in a huge variety of dishes, from meats to

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Speaker 1: vegetables to sauces. The spice mace comes from the arrows

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Speaker 1: that are on the outside of the nutmeg seed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that bright red netting stuff. That's so cool. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like the more you know, yeah, the more you know.

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Speaker 2: Mace is a little more biting and less sweet than nutmeg,

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Speaker 2: but with an otherwise similar flavor profile. And nutmeg is

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Speaker 2: still used pretty liberally in Dutch, Tuscan, North African and

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Speaker 2: Canadian cuisine and provide some warm notes to some French sauces.

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Speaker 2: Mace is more popular in Indian cuisines. The fruit can

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Speaker 2: also be eaten and is by some nutmeg farmers and

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Speaker 2: their communities. It can be eaten fresh with like a

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Speaker 2: pinch of salt and chili, or dried and sugared, or

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Speaker 2: made into juice or jam or pickles or wine. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: all parts of the nutmeg plant taste vaguely of nutmeg.

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Speaker 1: Makes sense, The word nutmeg might refer to different seeds

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Speaker 1: in different countries.

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Speaker 3: Just to keep us all on our toes.

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Speaker 1: As far as the name goes, it might come from

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Speaker 1: either an old Arabic word or an old French word

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Speaker 1: for musk, meaning fragrant, and then possibly the French word

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Speaker 1: for nut combined with that nut meg.

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Speaker 3: And what about nutrition.

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Speaker 2: Well, nutmeg, I mean it's a spice. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: in the amount that you would use it culinarily, it's

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Speaker 2: pretty much null. But maybe you've hoed that people use

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Speaker 2: nutmeg non culinarily.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about. Lauren, Well, you

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Speaker 3: did some of the research, so I certainly hope you have. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably heard some interesting things about nutmegs properties. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: it's psychedelic and hallucinogenic properties. If you consume somewhere around

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Speaker 1: four to eight teaspoons, nutmeg does have psychoactive effects. The

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Speaker 1: sensation of floating is what most partakers report experiencing. It

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Speaker 1: can take a minute for it to hit or not

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Speaker 1: a minute, a couple of hours, and it could last

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Speaker 1: four days. It comes with a lot of unpleasant side

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Speaker 1: effects after vomiting, raising heart diarrhea, and a quote nutmeg

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Speaker 1: burp every twenty minutes, which I find interesting rarely. Nutmeg poisoning,

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Speaker 1: which is about twelve teaspoons, can result in palpitations, pain, convulsions,

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Speaker 1: and possibly death. Some prison kitchens have banned nutmeg for

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Speaker 1: this reason. Malcolm X even mentioned nutmeg in his autobiography quote,

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Speaker 1: start into a glass of cold water. A penny matchbox

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Speaker 1: full of nutmeg had the kick of three or four reefers.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 1: William S Burrows wrote about it too. Results are vaguely

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Speaker 1: similar to marijuana, with side effects of headache and nausea.

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Speaker 1: Death would probably supervene before addiction of such addiction as possible.

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Speaker 3: I have only taken nutmeg once.

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Speaker 2: Other experimenters have compared a nutmeg high to having a

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Speaker 2: two day hangover.

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Speaker 3: That sounds terrible. I agree. Hmm, Well, what's happening here, Lauren? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Nutmeg contains a lot of interesting compounds that give it

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Speaker 2: it's aroma and flavor. Linna lul brings a sort of

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Speaker 2: floral spice terrapinol, piny citrus usenol clove, sort of spice

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Speaker 2: camp fiend. This pungent bite dipentene is lemony and pineine

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Speaker 2: as well. Piney oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. For once, words makes sense more or less makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But yet nutmeg also contains a few interesting compounds. Maristicin,

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Speaker 2: named for the nutmeg plant, can suppress the action of

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Speaker 2: a particular neurotransmitter and thus prevent some of your nerves

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Speaker 2: from firing. These nerves are responsible for involuntary and voluntary

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Speaker 2: muscle movement in the in the guts, the lungs, and elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: and some researchers think that this is why a nutmeg

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Speaker 2: high makes you feel sluggish, and also why nutmeg has

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Speaker 2: been used medicinally to treat stuff like gastro intestinal distress,

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Speaker 2: like it might prevent muscles from cramping in those areas.

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Speaker 2: It's also a precursor to MMDA, which is a psychedelic amphetamine.

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Speaker 2: And then there are a couple other compounds elementsin and

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Speaker 2: saff roll, both of which are psychoactive precursors to MDMA

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Speaker 2: or ecstasy. And there are all sorts of theories about

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Speaker 2: how these and other compounds of nutmeg interact with each

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Speaker 2: other and with your body as they're like broken down

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Speaker 2: in the digestive system and liver in order to create.

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Speaker 1: This high, right, and the chemical behind this whole thing

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Speaker 1: that maristicin is bad news for dogs, potentially fatal level

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Speaker 1: bad news.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't take nutmeg for recreational use. Don't do it. No, no,

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: Also, beware of anything that's selling nutmeg for medicinal use.

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Speaker 2: It is sold as a treatment for everything from aforementioned

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Speaker 2: guest or intestinal issues to kidney disease to cancer, but

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Speaker 2: there is not enough scientific evidence to say whether it

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Speaker 2: helps with any of those things. However, studies are ongoing.

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Speaker 2: Research in rats has shown that high doses of nutmeg

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Speaker 2: oil are more effective than traditional pain medication in helping

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Speaker 2: ease pain and swelling due to inflammation, the sort of

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Speaker 2: inflammation seen in arthritis, and with fewer side effects. So

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Speaker 2: it would be pretty cool if something came out of that,

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Speaker 2: but does don't go dosing yourself. Like the oil that

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Speaker 2: they were using was specially formulated to contain less of

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Speaker 2: the stuff that makes you ill. If you just eat

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Speaker 2: a lot of nutmeg, you'd get nauseated a long time

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Speaker 2: before you would see arthritis benefits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if we look at numbers, they can be

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Speaker 1: a little tough to pin down, but estimates put global

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Speaker 1: nutmeg production between somewhere between ten and twelve thousand metric

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Speaker 1: tons annually. Indonesia accounts for seventy five percent of that production,

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Speaker 1: and Granada comes in second with about twenty percent. But

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Speaker 1: nowadays you can find nutmeg pretty much anywhere and cheaply.

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Speaker 1: But at one time nutmeg was worth its.

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Speaker 3: Weight in gold.

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Speaker 1: And then some oh yeah, tens of thousands died in

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Speaker 1: the fight to control nutmeg yay spices. Yeah yeah, And

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Speaker 1: we'll get into that after a quick break for word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor.

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Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, yes, thank you. All right.

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Speaker 1: So nutmeg history. Before it was used for food, nutmeg

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Speaker 1: was used as an encense or in these small perfume

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Speaker 1: bags called satchets.

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Speaker 2: Supposedly it was part of the spice blend used inside

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Speaker 2: Egyptian mummies.

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Speaker 1: Egyptian mummy spice blend. Why can I not buy that anywhere?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, that's our next spice blend. It's true, all right, okay.

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Speaker 1: Nouas it was a part of the royal perfume used

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Speaker 1: in Iran and preserved nutmeg was recorded in China as

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Speaker 1: early as two hundred CE. Plenty wrote about it in

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Speaker 1: first century CE. Persian physician Iban Sinna wrote about what

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Speaker 1: he called the Bonda nut sometime around one thousand CE,

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Speaker 1: and the Bonda nut is probably.

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Speaker 2: Nutmeg Banda is the old term for the island where

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Speaker 2: it was found.

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Speaker 1: Yes, around the same time, Holy Roman Emperor Henry the

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Speaker 1: sixth had the streets fumigated with nutmegs in honor of

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Speaker 1: his coronation.

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Speaker 3: Oh that sounds delightful, it does.

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Speaker 1: Records show that had made it all the way out

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Speaker 1: to Byzantem by sixth century CE, and there are records

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Speaker 1: describing a sprinkling of nutmeg on peace pudding old episode

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Speaker 1: throwback dating back to the eighth century, lots of innisul use.

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Speaker 1: Going on to records show that Europeans were using it

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Speaker 1: as a cure for nervous ailments by the seventh century.

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Speaker 3: And we say all the way out.

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Speaker 1: Because for centuries you could only find it on this

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Speaker 1: one isolated island chain, the Bonda Islands, of which yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are ten of them. Arab traders were the first

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Speaker 1: outsiders to discover nutmeg, and they charged a fortune for it.

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Speaker 1: When the Turks seized control of Constantinople which is modern

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Speaker 1: day Istanbul, in fourteen fifty three, they cut off trade

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Speaker 1: on the one strip of land that had allowed some

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Speaker 1: merchants to bypass the Arab Venetian trade monopoly because at

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Speaker 1: the time Arab traders sold to Europe through Venice. Columbus

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Speaker 1: was looking for a shortcut to the Spice Islands to

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Speaker 1: get around this whole mess when he stumbled on the

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Speaker 1: Americas instead. When Vasco de Gama's forces laid siege to

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Speaker 1: Kerala in fourteen ninety seven, his soldiers cried for.

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Speaker 3: Christ and spices.

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Speaker 1: This is destiny of the world stuff we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: I did buy the search for nutmeg. The Benedictine abbess

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Speaker 1: Hildegarde de Bengen wrote about nutmeg's psychoactive properties all the

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Speaker 1: way back in twelfth century CE, so we humans have

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Speaker 1: known something was up with nutmeg for a while, and

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Speaker 1: because of its rarity, nutmeg was super expensive. German records

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Speaker 1: from the fourteenth century list the price for a pound

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Speaker 1: of nutmeg at seven fat oxen.

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Speaker 3: Not skinny oxen, No fat oxen. Yeah, like good ones.

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Speaker 3: Something else.

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Speaker 1: I ran across claimed that at one point in England,

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Speaker 1: selling a handful of nutmeg nuts would set you up

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Speaker 1: for life. Never had work again. The nutmeg situation changed

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Speaker 1: in fifteen eleven when Portuguese conquer a Fonso de Albuquerque

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Speaker 1: captured the Moluccas and demanded that the indigenous islanders lead

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Speaker 1: him to the source of the nutmeg, which they did.

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Speaker 1: Both The local successfully kept the Portuguese from occupying the

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Speaker 1: Banda Islands and eventually drove the Portuese. Also wanted to

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Speaker 1: mention that Leonardo da Vinci's fifteen to ten packing list

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Speaker 1: read inkorn, penknife, get hold of skull, nutmeg. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like how a lot of my list shape.

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Speaker 3: I want to hang out with Leo so hard, get

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Speaker 3: hold of get hold of a skull, period a nutmeg,

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Speaker 3: I agree, dude.

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Speaker 1: And this is around the time when nutmeg star really

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Speaker 1: started to rise. Spices were all a rage among the

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Speaker 1: rich because they were the only ones who could afford them. Really,

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Speaker 1: they might have been using it for its hallucinogenic properties

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Speaker 1: as well and also medicinally just as much as for food.

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Speaker 1: Some believed that nutmeg could keep away not only the

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Speaker 1: common cold, but also the bubonic plague.

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Speaker 3: It could not. No.

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Speaker 1: No, science has shown that fleas appear to really dislike

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Speaker 1: the smell of nutmeg, soo. The leading European medical institution

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Speaker 1: during the Middle Ages, the Salerno School, had this to

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Speaker 1: say about nutmeg. One nut is good for you, the

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Speaker 1: second will do you harm, the third will kill you.

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Speaker 1: And it was seen as an affrodisiac guys obviously.

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Speaker 3: Of course, of course, also thought to relieve sleeplessness, poison bites,

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Speaker 3: and flatulence. Oh sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then there's also a rumor that Nostrodamus was taking

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Speaker 2: a lot of it and other miled to hallucinogens like

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Speaker 2: it while he was writing up his prophecies.

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Speaker 3: Oh so that's where they came from. Yeah, and thanks

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Speaker 3: to producer Dylan for that hot tip. Yes, I love

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Speaker 3: this too.

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Speaker 1: Some rich French chefs would get these really fancy nutmeg

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Speaker 1: graders made and they would show them off at fancy

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Speaker 1: dinner parties. Like if someone was like, oh, I've only

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Speaker 1: had a way to grate this nutmeg.

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Speaker 3: It'd be like, oh, I have a way. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I want to carry o a pline apple and a

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Speaker 1: fancy nutmeg greater.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people will never invite me to parties again. Oh okay,

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Speaker 3: I would.

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Speaker 2: I think that if I think you don't want to

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Speaker 2: hang out with those people anyway.

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Speaker 3: You're right, Lauren, You're always full of such good advice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so now we need to talk about the Dutch

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Speaker 1: East India Company because they really wanted a monopoly on

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Speaker 1: the nutmeg trade. To that end, they went to the Bondanese,

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Speaker 1: forcing them to trade nutmeg for Dutch goods that the

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Speaker 1: Bondanese didn't need, like thick, heavy clothing. They were in

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Speaker 1: the tropics, they had no need for that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And they also forced the Bondanese rulers to sign quote

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Speaker 1: the Eternal Treaty in sixteen oh nine, which secured the

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Speaker 1: Dutch East India Company's spice trade monopoly on the islands.

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Speaker 1: And things escalated after that when the Bondas attacked the

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Speaker 1: fortress the Dutch had built in the region, Fort Nassau.

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Speaker 1: They killed the admiral and forty of his officers. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, the British were doing their best to

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Speaker 1: chip away at the duchess hold on the spice trade

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Speaker 1: and the Spice Islands. They managed to secure two small

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Speaker 1: Banda islands, Run and I. Run was the first British

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Speaker 1: colony in the world, but the Dutch fought tooth and nail,

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Speaker 1: and in sixteen fifteen they attacked the British controlled Spice Islands.

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Speaker 1: The British lost control of Eye but solidified their forces

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Speaker 1: on run and killed two hundred of the Dutchess soldiers.

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Speaker 1: The British forces were able to reclaim I, but about

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Speaker 1: a year later the Dutch attacked them again, and when

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Speaker 1: the British used up all of their AMMO, the Dutch

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Speaker 1: massacred them. Oh Determined to take full control of the Bondas,

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Speaker 1: the Dutch East India Company dispatched soldiers to the islands

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Speaker 1: who used alleged violations to this eternal Treaty as justification

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Speaker 1: for beheading forty indigenous leaders. And if that wasn't terrible enough,

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Speaker 1: they then committed genocide against the Bondas history or in estimate,

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Speaker 1: the population went from around fifteen thousand to around one thousand.

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Speaker 1: Any mail over the age of fifteen was quartered and beheaded.

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Speaker 1: The survivors were then enslaved and used to cultivate nutmeg.

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Speaker 1: A decade and a half later, the population had dropped

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Speaker 1: even lower to six hundred. Oh my goodness, and all

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Speaker 1: of these horrible acts made Dutch plantation owners filthy rich.

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Speaker 1: They sold nutmeg at a markup of three hundred times

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Speaker 1: in Europe. The Dutch East India Company was the richest

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Speaker 1: company in the world. Each year, shareholders got a forty

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Speaker 1: percent dividend, and the company employed over fifty thousand people

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Speaker 1: and ten thousand soldiers across two hundred ships. To get

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Speaker 1: more product, they brought in slaves from other Indonesian islands

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Speaker 1: like Java. Meanwhile, the English and French tried to circumvent

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Speaker 1: the Dutch's control of nutmeg with subterfuge to get their

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Speaker 1: hands on fertile nutmeg seeds. To prevent this, nutmeg seeds

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Speaker 1: were coated in lime so they wouldn't sprout. The export

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Speaker 1: of nutmeg growing trees was banned, and anyone suspected of growing, stealing,

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Speaker 1: or selling nutmeg outside of Dutch approval faced the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: And that lime thing was so prevalent for so long

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Speaker 2: that even after the monopoly fell, producers would continue to

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Speaker 2: bleach nutmegs for like a good long while because according

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Speaker 2: to consumers, that's what nutmegs looks like.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: And then Peter Piper got involved. Of course, he's always

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Speaker 1: popping up everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Peter Piper, Like Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fame that one, yep, that one. He's a real guy.

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Speaker 3: He was a real dude.

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Speaker 1: His actual name was Pierre Poavre, which translated to English

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Speaker 1: comes out to be Peter Piper. He wore many hats,

404
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: a pirate's hat, a horticulturist hat. I guess that's a

405
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Speaker 1: gardened cap, and he also had lost one of his arms.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Pepper referred to all kinds of spice nuts,

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Speaker 1: so nutmeg peppers relevant here. Pierre stole all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things from the Dutch for his garden, including nutmeg. Because

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Speaker 1: of him, France was able to plant some nutmeg seeds

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Speaker 1: on their colony of Mauritius. And this brings us to

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Speaker 1: the question did the Dutch really trade the island of

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Speaker 1: Manhattan for nutmeg? Before we answer that, we're gonna pause

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Speaker 1: for one more quick break for word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, all right,

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Speaker 1: So let's answer this question. It's a popular cocktail type, Oh,

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Speaker 1: surely a question. After centuries of bloodshed and warring of

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Speaker 1: her territory, the Dutch Anglo War had just ended. The

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00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: British and the Dutch were looking to cool things down

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Speaker 1: a bit. In sixteen sixty seven, they entered negotiations. The

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Speaker 1: British wanted new Amsterdam or Manhattan, and the Dutch wanted

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Speaker 1: Britain's last nutmeg producing island, Bonda Run and a South

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Speaker 1: American sugar producing territory. Is like the cherry on top

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Speaker 1: on what they won both of those things. The Treaty

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Speaker 1: of Breda was signed and the exchange was made, and

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Speaker 1: soul was history.

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Speaker 3: So the answer is yes, yeah, kind kind of m hm.

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Speaker 1: New Amsterdam, by the way, was discovered by English explorer

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Speaker 1: Henry Hudson, who was commissioned by the Dutch East India

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Speaker 1: Company to find a northeast passage from Asia to the

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Speaker 1: Arctic Ocean. He didn't, but he did find Long Island,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the name of the Hudson River comes from.

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Speaker 1: The Dutch purportedly traded items valued at around twenty four

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Speaker 1: dollars to the tribe they found on Manhattan Island. The

434
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: tribe didn't really live there though, and that they called

435
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: it quote a place where we all got drunk or

436
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: mena HACTINUK. Sorry if I butchered that, but yeah, because

437
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: that's another thing you'll hear a lot in that conversation

438
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: is twenty four dollars.

439
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 3: That's where that comes from.

440
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so about a century and a half goes by,

441
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: with the Dutch maintaining total control.

442
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 3: Of the nutmeg trade.

443
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: Then comes the Napoleonic Wars from eighteen oh three to

444
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: eighteen fifteen, pitting the Dutch, which is now at this

445
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: time part of Napoleon's Empire, against the English again. So

446
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: the British went straight for the Spice Islands. They launched

447
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: an attack against one of the Bunda Islands in eighteen

448
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: ten and the Dutch lost their fort Nassau. But when

449
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: the first phase of the Napoleonic Wars ended in eighteen fourteen,

450
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: control went back to the Dutch with the First Treaty

451
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: of Paris. But the British had nutmeg seeds now seeds

452
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: that they planted on their tropical colonial outposts like Singapore,

453
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: Malaysia and Sri Lanka, and nutmeg spread from there, causing

454
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: the price to drop dramatically. Regular folks in Europe and

455
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: Asia could afford it, and they started incorporating it into

456
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: their cuisine. British controlled Granada went on to become the

457
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: second largest producer of nutmeg, and to this day their

458
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: flag has the shape of a nutmeg on it, and

459
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: folks were still looking to use it for other things

460
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: other than eating. During the nineteenth century, women looking to

461
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: induce a miscarriage would ingest large quantities of nutmeg. And

462
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: here's some slightly more modern day trivia. Apparently Connecticut is

463
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: known as the nutmeg State.

464
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: That was news to me me.

465
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 2: As well, I don't particularly associate. I mean, it doesn't

466
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: grow there, right, I mean unless you have a hot house.

467
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: I suppose any listeners who have a hot house growing

468
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: nutmeg in Connecticut, please, yeah.

469
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: Send pictures.

470
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: There are two reasons given for why Connecticut has this nickname.

471
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: One goes that some sneaky merchants in the state would

472
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: carve these little wooden nutmegs and sell them as the

473
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: real deal.

474
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

475
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: The second story takes a nicer look at these merchants,

476
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: suggesting that folks didn't realize nutmeg wouldn't crack open the

477
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: same way a walnut wood and that you needed to

478
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: grade it instead, and concluded that the entire seed was

479
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: composed of wood.

480
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh man, how disappointing. Oh like to like greate

481
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: what you think is a nutmeg and it's just sawdust

482
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 2: And then you're like, oh.

483
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: He probably paid a lot for it, Like a lot.

484
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: This practice occurred back in England as well, and led

485
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: to a slang use of the word nutmeg. In Victorian times,

486
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: to be nutmegged was to be tricked in a way

487
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: that made you look and feel foolish.

488
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I kind of love it.

489
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that slang in turn may have led to

490
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: the sports term nutmeg. In football, soccer, or hockey or

491
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: other games, a nutmeg is when you hawk the ball

492
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: between an opponent's legs.

493
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. Yeah, I love it. That's yeah,

494
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: that's pretty fantastic.

495
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, some more modern history. By the twentieth century,

496
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: further reductions in prices garnered a greater demand and availability

497
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: of nutmeg through the nineteen seventies, until an oversaturated market

498
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: dropped prices even more in the nineteen eighties, leading to

499
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: the formation of a cartel among the Indonesian and Grenadan

500
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: producers that set minimum prices, but producers from both countries

501
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: pretty much immediately tried to undercut those prices, so it

502
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: wasn't a really successful cartel. And part of the issue

503
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: here was the Cold War. That Cold War, because the

504
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties was when the US forcibly removed the Marxist

505
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: government from Granada. Ending the country's nutmeg profitable ties to Russia.

506
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: Whether or not Russia was there for the nutmeg or

507
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: there for the location in the Caribbean as a outpost

508
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: closed to the US. I mean, you can decide for yourself.

509
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: But on a visit to Granada in nineteen eighty six,

510
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: President Reagan a pair joked that the Russians and Cubans

511
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: had mostly wanted Granada for the nutmeg. Like he was like, oh,

512
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: Laul's that's such a funny idea quote. What they were

513
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: really after was Christmas.

514
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: I'm sure it killed at the time. I'm positive it did.

515
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: But the thing that I find interesting about this entire

516
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Cold War bit is that in the late eighties and

517
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: early nineties it became trendy again to buy whole nutmegs

518
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: and grate them fresh at home instead of buying pre

519
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: ground nutmeg, which is what had been available in supermarkets

520
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: for the past few decades. And this might be a

521
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: direct result of marketing done by Americans who were attempting

522
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: to fix Granada's economy after they cut ties to Russia.

523
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: That is interesting, huh, Like, I can't prove it one

524
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: way or another, but like the tie is there? Mm hm. Anyway.

525
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, today, in the Caribbean, in particular, small farms like

526
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: the nutmeg farms on Granada are a really great source

527
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: of jobs and businesses and are thought to be like good,

528
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: steady supplements to the tourism industry that dominates so much

529
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: of the area. But climate change and the increasing number

530
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: and intensity of hurricanes is making life harder for folks

531
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: in agriculture there.

532
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, this one had a lot of Yeah.

533
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: I don't really have like a positive like thing ending

534
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: for that one. I'm like, oh, man, I still really

535
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: like nutmeg.

536
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: Oh that's harsh.

537
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think as this comes out as it airs,

538
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: except we don't really air.

539
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: They has this radio.

540
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: Well like sure, no, I mean the sound waves move

541
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: through air to get to your ears.

542
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, as it's released.

543
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: It is the holiday season and nutmeg is everywhere.

544
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: It's probably in your pumpkin spice mix. Oh sure. Yeah.

545
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: And we've mentioned before, I think last year around this time,

546
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: coworker Alex he makes eggnog from George Washington's original recipe

547
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: and it's delicious. Artha Washington's original recipe, right, oh, thank you.

548
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: No, no problem, It's I do it all for Martha.

549
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: As you should, but I know that.

550
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 1: I think last year I put a lot of nutmeg

551
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: on top of mine and it was lovely.

552
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: It's worthwhile, it is, Oh it is.

553
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: But this year I hope I don't drink too much

554
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: nutmeg because there is a lot of alcohol in this

555
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: Washington recipe by the way. Oh yeah, and then tell

556
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: everyone about Nutmeg's terrible pass. That sounds like something I

557
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: will do.

558
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 3: Oh, that sounds like something both of us will do.

559
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 3: We're so fun. Yeah, we're buckets of joy.

560
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna remember that phrase, buckets of joy. It's a

561
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: long story, but I have to design a Christmas card

562
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: from my mom, so I'm looking for all kinds of ideas.

563
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: Buckets of joy. It's just a bucket, like a sad bucket.

564
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: It's sad bucket. Oh I like it. Yeah, I like it.

565
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.

566
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we

567
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: enjoyed bringing it back.

568
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And if you all have any kind of

569
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: SPECIALTMAG recipe, if you just have a special holiday recipe

570
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: that's really on your mind right now, because maybe you

571
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: made it, or maybe you didn't get to make it.

572
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: And you're mad or yeah, whatever it is it is,

573
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 2: we would love to hear from you.

574
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: Yes, recipes always welcome. Yes, and if you would like

575
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: to contact us, there are many ways to do so.

576
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello, atsavorpod dot com.

577
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter,

578
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: Blue Sky, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod and we

579
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: do hope to hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio.

580
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

581
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

582
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers

583
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

584
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

585
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: your way