WEBVTT - Part Two: Dire Wolves, Dr. George Church & The De-Extinction Grift 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.680 Also media, Oh what's Epstein? My Jeffries, I think a 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.320 version of that before. Should we not? Is that bad, Sophie? 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.479 Should we not start that way? How many chances do 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:17.639 you get now that he's dead? 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:19.120 You know, zero? 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:20.200 We don't need to do a lot. 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.799 That's right, That's right. That's the real tragedy. You know, 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:30.120 I wouldn't say tragedy. Likeston Kerrman, our guest, how are you? 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.800 I'm doing great. I'm excited to hear more. This feels 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:35.800 weird to say out loud, but I'm excited to hear 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.239 more about Jeffrey Epstein and everything he's been up to 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:39.480 with our boy Georgetown. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.040 Yeah. Well, thankfully we are past. We're done with the 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:46.960 Epstein part of the story, because you know how that ends. Obviously, 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.080 Bernie Sanders sneaks into prison and puts him out of 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.160 his misery in order to keep some certain people's secrets 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.600 or something. You know, nobody knows, right, some people are 0:00:58.600 --> 0:00:59.880 pretty sure they know. I don't know. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:03.680 It was like I would say, like four or five 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.280 people who probably know exactly. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.840 There's like four five Yeah, maybe you who know exactly? Yeah, yeah. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.080 I continue to be, you know, an agnostic. I'm an 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:18.959 Epstein agnostic, but definitely fucking George Church. I feel like 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:20.200 knows more than he's slepting on. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.960 He knows more than we do on this podcast. 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.600 Yeah man, But yeah, maybe it was George no that 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.560 that'll go So we can't we can't accuse this bioscientist 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:34.560 of having Epstein guilt. Fuck yeah. Yeah, maybe he like 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.440 inserted a gene and do him that made him choke more. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.440 Yeah, just made something explode in the middle of. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.880 Prison, right right, Yeah? Sure, Like yeah, created a spontaneously 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:51.400 grew a noose out of his hair, so oh boy. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.480 Around the time he renewed his association with Epstein, which 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:57.880 would have been in the twenty fourteen to fifteen era 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.360 unless he'd been continuing to talk to him, which we 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.960 really don't know, but we have records of them starting 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.280 to meet again multiple times in twenty fourteen anyway, and 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.480 around that same period of time in twenty fourteen and 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:11.880 twenty fifteen, that's when doctor Church first started seriously pushing 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.440 the extinction as a scientific topic. Right where he was 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.400 I think you can find some quotes where he sort 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.200 of talked about the possibility, But two than fourteen fifteen 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.880 is when he really is like, this is an actual 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.200 thing we can and should do, and maybe even a 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.040 potential business that I want to be in. He had 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.800 danced around the issue in his twenty twelve book ReGenesis, 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.160 where he had proposed bringing back Neanderthals, which people always 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.079 get angry. Are like, Robert, you're mispronouncing it again. That 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.919 is how you say what most people call Neanderthals. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.320 I'm not brave enough to have ever challenged to question. 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:50.440 Some people did in my novel, and then they're like, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:51.400 oh shit, I looked it up. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.840 I say Neanderthal. But I'm a dumb dumbs so I'm glad. 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:01.840 I'm very all dead. So that's not what they call themselves. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:09.880 You call us what they Yeah, wow wow, No, it's fine. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.640 We wipe them out because we're uh well, because we're monsters. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:23.959 We're the devils here, so uh. Anyway, he had proposed 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:28.440 bringing back Neanderthals by genetic engineering and using an actual 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.040 human woman to serve as their surrogate mother. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:32.080 Oh no. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.160 He described in the book the ideal surrogate to rebirth 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:42.080 the Neanderthal race as quote an extremely adventurous female human. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.800 Oh man, you can feel everyone about this, but my 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.000 maybe Sophie you can chime in here, depending on how 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.080 if you feel I'm getting this wrong. It's kind of 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.840 fucked up to call her a female human as opposed 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.320 to like an adventurous woman. Like either way it's fucked up, 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.400 but female human seems worse somehow than like we're gonna 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.880 find some adventurous woman, right. I don't know if neither 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.760 is good, but female human like you sound like a 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.960 star trek care you sound like Quark talking about ladies. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:15.080 Female human as if female human you didn't need both 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:15.440 of those. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.040 Could just say woman again. 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:17.640 Just say a woman. 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:19.480 Yeah, that's what that word is for. 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:25.159 It literally was like a female human. It's just kind 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:26.040 of awkward. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.160 Man, you're not being chill. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:33.799 You're not being cool. Derspiegel and Derspiegel is a German 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.880 news agency. I think it literally means the voice or 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.599 something like that. I don't know. Don't quote man that 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.160 I'm bad at German. But it's it's a major It's 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.039 like their New York Times almost right, it's a major 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.920 publication over there. Interviewed doctor George Church in twenty fifteen 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.520 because he had recently made the claim that it would 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.839 soon be possible to clone Neanderthals. They asked him, will 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.400 you witness the birth of a Neanderthal baby in your lifetime? 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.760 And he replied, I think so. But boy, there are 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:02.839 a lot of parts to that. He goes on a 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.800 list a few of the technologies that have developed recently 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.960 which might allow this kind of cloning, and then adds 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.240 another technology that the de extinction of a Neanderthal would 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.840 require is human cloning. We can clone all kinds of mammals, 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.160 so it's very likely that we could clone a human. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:20.440 Why shouldn't we be able to do so? 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.520 Yeah, now we're getting to what you really want here. 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.640 Yeah, exactly. Now we're getting to the real sketchy shit. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.760 Something tells me you're not as concerned with these wolves 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.839 and these Neanderthals as now. 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.640 Der Spiegel very reasonably said, well you shouldn't, maybe because 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.400 it's super illegal, right, Like, you're not it's very illegal 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.440 to clone human beings. And Church's responses, Well, that may 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.440 be true in Germany, but it's not true everywhere, and 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:52.760 laws can change, by the way. 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.080 WHOA cool? 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.200 That's like if I was like if someone was like, oh, 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.440 I think I'm going to commit some murders, but it's 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.160 illegal to murder. Well, what if the law changed? That's 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:04.360 not really my question. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.520 It's illegal to murder because you're living in the past, man, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:09.840 I'm thinking about the future. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.240 Like I'm not really like if it were legal to murder, 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.039 that wouldn't change my judgment upon you for wanting to 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:20.680 murder somebody, you know. And it's interesting because, again, he's 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.880 always described as having this deep consideration of ethics and 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.560 you know, putting even a lot of money into making 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.080 sure that what he does is ethical. And he's asked like, yeah, 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.400 but like it's super illegal to clone human beings for 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.800 like obvious reasons, and he's like, well, what if it 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:39.719 wasn't not my question, my dude, Okay, yeah, it's it's 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.080 it's just fascinating. And the other thing that's interesting here 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:44.640 is that, like, not only is he like his answer 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.039 to like this is kind of fucked up. Well, we 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.840 could make it legal, But when he's kind of pressed 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.680 by der Spiegel, I'm like, why would you want to 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:57.800 do this? Like what's the benefit? His answer is complete horseshit. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.000 First off, he's asked like why would the be desirable? 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:01.400 Right? 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:03.359 And when you ask that, you're asking like, give me 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.320 a good reason to want a Neanderthal clone, that's not 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.000 like some sort of cheap profit, Like, why is this desirable? 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.800 And his first answer is, well, that's another thing. I 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.280 tend to decide on what is desirable based on societal consensus. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.680 My role is to determine what's technologically feasible. All I 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.040 can do is reduce the risk and increase the benefits. Wow, 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.680 that is bad scientific edicts. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:25.520 Yeah. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.480 First off, man, you shouldn't decide what's desirable based on 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.640 societal consensus. Go back to the fifties. What was societal 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.160 consensus on inerracial dating. If you're letting that move you 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.400 to decide what's desirable, you're gonna be bad. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.560 It was also not taking genuine polls. No, he's just 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.360 talking to Jeffrey Epstein. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.680 The average human probably doesn't give a shit about this, right. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.680 I didn't know that bringing back a Neanderthal was possible, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.800 and frankly, it never was interested in. 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.960 It was not on my list of concerns. Yeah, and 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.880 the attitude that like, well, my only job is to determine, 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:06.960 like what are people willing to let me do, and 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.320 then what's technically feasible. You're literally doing the Ian Malcolm 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.520 in draask Park thing like you're literally your scientists are 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.840 so busy asking what they can do, they're not asking 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.800 should we Is this fucked up? Like Michael Crichton was 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.760 not a good man, but he understood that this is 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.520 bad ethics, right that just be like, I wonder if 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.320 I can It's like evil, it leads you to do evil? 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:30.160 No, you should chill out? 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:36.760 Yeah, fine, probably fine, fuck it. Yeah. So it's very 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.720 interesting to me how just he has he's completely incurious 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.559 as to whether or not there's a practical benefit to 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.520 doing this kind of cloning. And Derschpiegel has to prod 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:47.360 him like two or three times to get him to 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.120 answer kind of directly, like what is is there any 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.360 potential benefit to bringing back this species? And here's what 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.480 Church eventually says, Well, andertoles might think differently than we do. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.040 We know that they had a larger cranial size. They 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.480 could even be more intelligent than us. When the time 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.400 comes to deal with an epidemic or getting off the 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.000 planet or whatever. It's conceivable that their way of thinking 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.920 could be beneficial. Okay, I got a lot of issues here. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.719 Fine, man, if we're just gonna pretend fine. 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.960 First off, let's split my issues here into pragmatic and 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.720 then ethical. Pragmatic. Bigger brain doesn't mean smarter. No, bigger brain. 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.480 That dolphins have bigger brain than us, they're not so 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.840 far prove it useful in getting us off the planet. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.719 They have other concerns, right. The other thing is if 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.080 you're creating, if you're bringing back this species, this is 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:44.600 a sentient, sapient species, an independent species, and you are 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.080 saying we'll use their big brains to get off the planet. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.920 What if that's not what they want? What if they 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.280 have other interests being their own independent beings. Because it 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:54.920 seems like you're concerned, is like, well, we can just 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.480 harness their big brains so that we can do the 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.720 science stuff that I want to do because they'll be smart. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.560 But what if they don't want to do that? Are 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.480 you just saying you'll own them? Is that kind of 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:05.040 what you're saying. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.280 Is that what you're saying, I think you're trying to 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:12.200 make big ass slaves man. Yeah, I think you're trying 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.600 to make some big old slaves. And that's yeah, that's 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.640 something you should maybe just say out loud instead of 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.960 pretending like it has some other value. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.079 It's one of those things. He's not saying, I want 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:24.720 to make big ass slaves, But if you say I 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.520 want to bring back a new intelligent species, you kind 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.320 of immediately have to say and they will immediately be 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.320 full citizens and right with the rights of human But 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.760 you have to like really emphasize that if you don't 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.120 want me to be like, do you just want slaves? 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.160 They don't have to live with me wherever they want. 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.719 So that's the other thing, because like this this Der 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.360 Spiegel journalist is like, how do you even go about 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.839 raising this species that you've brought back to life? Right? 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.480 Like they won't have parents or a culture, and as 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.560 like this is an intelligent, homitted species. Presumably most of 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.200 how the real ones knew how to do the things 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.400 that they did was that they were raised in families 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.160 like us, right, who like raise them? But there's no 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.240 culture of these people anymore? So how do you raise them? 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.440 And Church is kind of vaguely like, well, you'd like 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.720 make a bunch at a lot at once, like a cohort, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.760 he calls them, and then he's like, maybe they'd become 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.200 their own culture. Maybe they'd even become a political force. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.200 Who what name. 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.440 Yeah, I keep coming back to Jurassic Park because you 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.800 can't not when it's talking about the extinction. But also 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.760 what's amazing to me is again Michael Crichton, the climate 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.719 change denier, fucking weird guy. Michael Crichton understood all of 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.640 the ethical issues with this when applied to dinosaurs in 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 a way this guy doesn't when applying them to like 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:55.040 effectively a humanoid creature. Because in the actual book Jurassic Park, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.400 one of the things that becomes clear, like the raptors, 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.520 which are super intelligent, the ones that engine clones don't 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.920 act like real velociraptors. They're terrible to their young. They 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.160 like murder their own kids. They're just like crazy, violent 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.560 and dangerous because they were not raised by adults that 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.440 knew anything. They're just these monsters that got unleashed, and 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.240 so they grew up completely without any kind of a 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.360 culture that would teach them how to raise their young 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.640 and as an intelligence speed like Crichton imagined this when 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.760 talking about dinosaurs, yea, and George Church is just uncurious 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.120 about it, like literally read Jurassic Park. 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.480 We literally have a an economic system where you see 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.160 what raising people without their families does, and he's like, yeah, 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.839 I bet these ones will figure it out. Yeah, Like, no, 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.600 that's not that's not how it's gonna work, big dog. 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.160 Well, it's also like just even when you're talking outside 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:52.920 of the andertoals, we talk about like the animals he 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.400 wants to raise like a major story from like like 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.120 animal you know, biology and whatnot. In the last couple 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.439 of decades, as we used to have these beliefs about 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.840 alpha wolves that deeply influenced a lot of toxic aspects 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.360 of human culture. And then the scientist who came up 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.520 with the idea was like, I was completely wrong. I 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.960 was looking at wolves raised in prisons. Basically they don't 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.920 act like wild wolves, right Yeah, Which, again, if you're 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.040 just bringing back a dead ancient animal and it has 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.000 no animals of its own type to raise it, how 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.640 the fuck are you going to have it? Because his 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.959 goal here is always for it to retake its original 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.800 evolutionary niche how would it do that? It doesn't know 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:30.440 when to do that. 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.960 You ever seen those videos where like they'll like put 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.680 a tiger in with a pig, like a baby tiger, 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.560 and then the baby tigers starts acting like the pig 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.240 a little bit it's like, well, yeah, that's because that's 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.959 more influential than it being just raw tiger by itself. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.559 Yeah, yeah, this is why I intend to raise a 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.400 human being with a bunch of tigers. But that's a 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.360 separate point. I just want to see if they'll grow claws. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.760 All the scientists are saying no, but I have my 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.400 own theories. 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.080 Scientists are saying a lot of things. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.520 They say a lot of shit has these episode show 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.959 So yeah, my opinion here is that his primary interest 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.040 isn't even I don't even think he ever intended to 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.800 clone the antithosis, right, I think he knows that this 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.240 is not really going to happen. It's clear to me 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:17.800 that his real interest is a mix of both, like 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.600 driving up hype because he's going to be starting this. 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.400 He's trying to and he's gotten very good at using 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.200 his lab. We'll do some work in like finding some 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.000 Neanderthal DNA and sequencing it, and then he can use 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:32.640 that to start making claims of we'll be able to 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.760 clone them one day and eventually get investments so that 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.760 he can spin off another startup company. Right, And that's 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.040 kind of part of how where about Colossal bioscience is 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.320 the Direwolf Company comes from. That's part of what he's doing. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.960 I think the other thing that he's doing here, and 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.320 this becomes clear later in the interview, is he's sort 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.240 of giving away that his actual interest is not to 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.520 bring back extinct species. It's to find traits of those 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.080 species and edit them into other animals for much less 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.240 altruistic purposes. At one point he has asked, like, do 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.680 you think there's anything wrong with creating a whole new species, 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.400 and he says, the main goal is to increase diversity. 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.200 The one thing that is bad for society is low diversity. 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.720 This is true for culture or evolution, for species, and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.560 also for whole societies. If you become a monoculture, you 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.320 are at great risk of perishing. Therefore, the recreation of 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.320 Neanderthals would mainly be a question of societal risk avoidance. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.120 And that's a really good example of using like the 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.080 language of social justice and liberalism to advocate for horrifying 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.880 things like first off, human beings have mostly done fine 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.400 with that Neandthals. I don't know that there's any evidence 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:38.040 that they would make us like more diverse. But also 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.920 that's not what he's interested in doing. Later in the interview, 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.360 dearsh People asks, Hey, wouldn't you just be able to 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.640 add some of their genes to a human and change 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.520 the human And the answer Doctor Church gives makes it 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.720 clear that this is what I think he's really interested in, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.320 because he says, suppose you were to realize, wow, these 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.720 five mutations might change the neuronal pathways, the skull size, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.040 a few key things that could give us what we 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.280 want in terms of neural diversity. And that's when I'm like, oh, 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.960 you just want to create designer smart babies for rich people, right, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.040 that's the blueprint here. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.280 You're just trying to make it so that so that 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.400 the baby comes out exactly the way you planned and 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.040 with no other stuff. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.480 Right, and you can make hyper smart babies for your 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.120 rich friends that become a new species to rule over 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:24.440 all of us. That's your goal. 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.040 Yeah, we're at your eyes and no need for braces, right, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:28.600 we get. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:33.000 It, right, Right, that's your dream. He continues, Even if 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.240 you don't have the DNA, you can still make something 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.120 that looks like it. And this is this is where 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.000 he lays out the blueprint for what Colossal is going 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.960 to do because he's like DNA doesn't last. We can't 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.120 get full dinosaur DNA, you'll never be able to clone 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.520 a real dinosaur. But then He's like, even if you 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.320 don't know the DNA, you can still make something that 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.120 looks like it. For example, if you wanted to make 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.640 a dinosaur, you'd first consider the ostrich, one of its 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.200 closest living relatives. You would take an ostrich, which is 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.200 a large bird, and you would ask, what's the difference 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.400 between birds and dinosaurs? How did the birds loose their hair? Hands? 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.680 And you would try to identify the mutations to try 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.960 and back engineer the dinosaur. I think this will be feasible, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.679 and again it's not really. 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.960 But yeah, there's a I learned about this recently. But 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.880 there's somebody who's making something called the chicken asaurs. Yeah, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.040 where they are essentially claiming that they're like re they've 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:26.600 rediscovered or re given us dinosaurs again via this chicken assaur. 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.280 But it's just a fucked up chicken. Yeah, that like 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.439 looks like it's got like some dinosaur qualities. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.840 And it's it's one of those things like is that 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.399 kind of interesting? Sure? Would I want something that looks 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.120 like a dinosaur and is a pet. I'm not made 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.720 of stone? Of course? Is that a dinosaur that you've 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.760 de extincted? Now it's a thing you made, And there's 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:50.920 still these ethical questions about like, well, what are the 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.879 rights of that animal? Like YadA YadA, Like there's a 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.760 lot of weird things, you know, Like there's a lot 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.840 of weird shit about that. Right, I'm not thrilled with this, 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.680 but that's my least kind of concern. Here is somebody 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.040 who's like, look, this isn't a real dinosaur, but it 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.639 looks like one. Do you want to have it as 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.840 a pet? All right? I have bigger concerns, you know, Right. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:16.120 It's not the true crime that is that our boy 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.040 George is working out on the back end. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.239 Of this, although there's also the day if it is 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.520 like made out of it from a chicken. Chickens are 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.400 soulless monsters, like you don't want to make them more powerful, like. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.199 And they're also not particularly bright and none of this 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:30.720 feels like a great combination. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.359 If you know, chickens their favorite food is their own kind, 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:40.600 like they are scary animals. Yeah, my favorite that Werner 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.639 Herzog has some great quotes about if you want to 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.520 see a frightened stare into the eyes of a chicken. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.520 There's like nothing but blackness in there. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:48.800 It's oh man. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:49.520 It's good stuff. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.840 Your chicken listeners are going to be pissed. You'll be nasty. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.520 You know, we've all had like I've had chickens. I 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.960 remember once one of my chickens, raccoon got in the 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.439 coop and one of my chickens fought it off and 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.080 got injured, and all of its friends ate it to death. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.720 It's horrible. Chickens are nightmares. 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.560 Oh I really didn't even like give him a shit 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.800 shit Oh man, Chicken Run really sold me a different. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.119 Story about the chickens are not that good at solidarity, 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.520 not their strong suit as a species. So we'll talk 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.800 more in a little bit about his so called de 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.320 extinction ambitions. But again this starts in like twenty fourteen 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.200 to fifteen, and the fact that he's like working on 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.000 this stuff, the fact that he's got this history with 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.200 Epstein and Epstein's weird baby breeding project and all these 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.160 this genome sequencing, all these that he's talking in twenty 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.800 fifteen about like editing human genes make designer babies. This 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.240 all leads directly to the most fucked up thing about 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.160 doctor George Church, which is how often he winds up, 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.920 shall we say, tugging at the fringes of outright eugenics, right, 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.240 oh yeah. In a twenty nineteen interview for CBS with 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.560 Scott Pelley, Church talks about his goal, which is framed 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.600 in the article as to protect humans from viruses, genetic diseases, 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:09.080 and aging. In the interview, George talks about age reversal, 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.879 which he says has been proven about eight ways and animals. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:18.520 Now it hasn't, right, And that's a really vague statement 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:20.560 for a scientist to make. And I want to know 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.280 what are the eight ways? What do you mean by proven? Right? 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:24.959 These are all the questions that aren't answered. 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.479 I did find that there's that jellyfish that doesn't that 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.560 can like regenerate it or like turn itself back into 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.080 a child, But like that's not proving it. That's just 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.320 that species, right. 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.080 And there's like there's like turtles that may basically live 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.720 forever if they're not killed by something, right, Like there's 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.680