1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: The art show just a quick payoff. And what we 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: were talking about. We had one police officers say twelve 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: complaints against an officer in a career that long. Uh 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything unless you know what the complaints were. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: And then somebody else said they were a twenty seven 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: year veteran, not one complaint. Interest that for what depends 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: where we are to certainly among the things we won't 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: be talking about because we're so busy with domestic stuff. 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Indian China moving troops to their shared border after a clash. 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: That's great. Hong Kong is melting down is the Chinese 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: communists are trying to stamp out the liberty and independence 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: there in Hong Kong. We did finally hit one thousand deaths. 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, and also Mike Pompeio, the State Department has 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: declared Hong Kong is no longer politically autonomous, not anonymous. 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: We know who they're they're not autonomous, which matters a 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: great deal in various trade and financial agreements. Um, and 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: it's a real uh, it's a it's more than a 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: shot across the bow with China. It's more like a 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: shot to the chops. Um and China meanwhile, continues to 20 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: militarize the South China see so galig the world not 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: polite enough to stop doing what it does. While we 22 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: deal with the COVID on a completely different topic, this 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: is so hot in your Blue and Purple states. Often 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: pushed by the unions, these laws that outlaw a gig 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: work essentially. And Tim the lawyer Sander for longtime a 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: friend of the Armstrong and Getty showed Tim as the 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: vice president for litigation for the Goldwater Institute and the 28 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: author of a number of great books which we will 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: tell you about, you know later. In vite the website, 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: Tim joins us, Hey, Tim, how are you, sir? Hey, 31 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm just fine. Thanks for having me back. Oh yeah, 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: it's it's always a pleasure. We have a number of 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: civil liberties type issues we'd love to pick your brain 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: on today, but we know you, uh, you at the 35 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: Goldwater Institute have joined in the fight against California's notorious 36 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: A B five. Tell us about it. Yeah, So A 37 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: B five, for those who don't know, is this state 38 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: law that that requires people who would prefer to work 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: as freelance workers to instead to be classified as employees. 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: And that's a bad thing for a couple of reasons. 41 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: One is it deprives people of their own freedom of 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: economic choice. It's really it's always amazed me how the 43 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Left likes to call itself the party of Choice, when 44 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: in fact that it's devoted to depriving people of the 45 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: freedom to choose when it comes to their economic circumstances. 46 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: And can I just jump in that that just for 47 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: people that might not think of freelance workers. Who are 48 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: those That's like your uber drivers, wedding photographers, people that 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: deliver newspaper positions, journalists. Yeah, a lot of those people. 50 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: But back to Tim and these and these people prefer 51 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: to work freelance for a number of reasons. One is 52 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: because you know, like with musicians, that's just the nature 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: of their work. They travel around, they perform here and there. 54 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense for them to work as an 55 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: employee for a particular corporation or something. And the other 56 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: thing is that that costs a lot of money. Fully 57 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: on staff employment status is very expensive and time consuming, 58 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: requires a lot of paperwork, it requires all sorts of 59 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: benefits and expenses. And here's Tim's rule of economics. Number 60 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: two is you don't help people by making it more 61 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: expensive to hire them. That's what a B five and 62 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: laws like that do is it makes it more expensive 63 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: to to to give people jobs. So naturally enough, the 64 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: result is going to be more unemployment and more difficulty 65 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: for people who want to work part time or want 66 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: to work on a freelance basis. And you know, Joe, 67 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: you said that this is being pushed by unions. That's 68 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: absolutely true. What what we've seen in the past fifteen 69 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: years or so is union representatives elected to government passing 70 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: laws that put heavier and heavier burdens, as a government matter, 71 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: on non union employees in order to try and price 72 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: them out of the market so as to to force 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: businesses to resort to union labor instead. It's like putting 74 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: your thumb on the scale or except it's incredibly massive stuff. 75 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: And one of the big problems with a B five 76 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: is it even applies to journalists, to writers and puts 77 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: a quota on how many articles a journalist, a freelance 78 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: journalist can submit to a journal before that person has 79 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: to be put on staff. You're allowed to submit thirty 80 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: five articles to a newspaper and after that you have 81 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: to be hired on full staff. So what's happened then, 82 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: is the newspapers have hired all these people, forced the 83 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: newspaper to provide them a full time job they can 84 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: support a family on. Good on them, especially because you know, 85 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: everybody knows what how the newspapers are just rolling in 86 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: the dough right now. The newspapers are just financially so 87 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: solvent that this couldn't possibly be a problem for them, 88 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: right Well, of course that's ridiculous. In fact, that not 89 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: only does this hurt the media generally, but it particularly 90 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: hurts small scale papers like alt weeklies and small community 91 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: papers that very heavily rely on freelance contributors because they 92 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: can't afford to hire on full staff. Well what does 93 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: that mean? That means that your establishment media is protected 94 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: in a way that your non establishment media isn't. The 95 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: freelancers tend to be the people who do the stories 96 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: that the mainstream establishment media doesn't do for whatever reason, 97 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: either because they're afraid to or because there's just no 98 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: money to be earned in it or whatever, Whereas freelance 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: journalists tend to smoke focus on small communities and an 100 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: important investigative anti government work. Things like that are really 101 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: important to our to free speech and a B five 102 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: restricts that basically censors it. Now, this is a law 103 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: in Cali, Unicornia. But again we want to emphasize to 104 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: people across the country that this is this is a movement, 105 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: it is a trend. Perhaps you've heard about the move 106 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: to unionize McDonald workers and and that sort of thing. 107 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: What do we know about the Lorraina Gonzales, the legislator 108 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: who who championed this thing. Well, you know, she is 109 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: an ideological pro union person. She believes the ancient, worn out, 110 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: obsolete canard that unions speak for the little guy. In reality, 111 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: of course, unions are big, faithless corporations that exploit workers 112 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: for their own private profit. But she is one a 113 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: rigidly ideological pro union person who thinks people should not 114 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: get a job unless a union boss says they're allowed to. 115 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: And so she's devoted to ensuring that employers find it 116 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: more expensive to hire non union labor. I call it 117 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: reverse feather betting. Back in the nineteen twenties and thirties, 118 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: there was a thing called feather betting, where a union 119 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: would force an employer to keep people on the staff 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: who didn't need to be there. The most famous example 121 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: is railroads were required to have uh, firemen on in 122 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: the the engine of a train, even though it was 123 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: a diesel and there was no reason to have a 124 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: fireman that So that's called feather betting. But nowadays what 125 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: you have is the reverse of that. You have instead 126 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: the unions are forcing employers to to be more inefficient 127 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: and and to cost more if they don't hire unions, 128 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: which is, you know, it's a clever scheme on them, 129 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: but but what it really ends up doing is that 130 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: tying the hands of workers or would be workers who 131 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: would prefer if they had the freedom of choice to 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: work freelance. Well, since some people in this room uh 133 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: and you uh, theoretically in this room this conversation are 134 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: all in agreement on this, what is it that you're 135 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: you're able to do about it? What's the headway you're 136 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: making on ending this ridiculousness. Well, there's a lawsuit now 137 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: that's that's pending in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. 138 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: It was filed by our friends at Pacific Legal Foundation 139 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: where I used to work a few years ago, and 140 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: we failed a brief in support of them in this case, 141 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: focusing on how this thirty five item quota for journalists. 142 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: Not only is that a violation of people's freedom of 143 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: economic choice, but it violates free speech because it only 144 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: applies if the articles the person's admits are pertained to 145 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: a topic or an event. And what that means is, 146 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: if you're, like, you know, a poet, and you write 147 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: poems that aren't particularly about anything, you can do as 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: many of those freelance as you want, and if you 149 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: get paid for it, that's perfectly fine. But if you 150 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: write articles about the same subjects, then the thirty five 151 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: item quota applies, which violates the First Amendment. I mean 152 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: this literally is the thing that's says if I submit 153 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: thirty six poems to a magazine, that's okay. But if 154 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: I write thirty five articles about poems, now all of 155 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: a sudden, I have to be full time on staff employee. Well, 156 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: and I would submit to you that if I want 157 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: to exercise my First Amendment rights and somebody says, hey, 158 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: that's good, I want to publish it, and Lorraina Gonzalez 159 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: or any government official between the you know, the great 160 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: coasts of this beautiful land sorry alask in Hawaii, you 161 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: get nothing I could but the idea that any government 162 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: official would say, no, you don't get to publish that 163 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: in that place, because you've already published enough. That's not 164 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: a that's beyond a violation. It's an obscenity. It's horrified. 165 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: As as as the old saying goes, I'm old enough 166 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: to remember when Democrats thought that mature adults should be 167 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: free to do as they chose with their own minds 168 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: and their own bodies. And apparently that doesn't depply outside 169 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: the bedroom. Apparently, if you want to get a job 170 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: working for a freelance for uber or a pete a 171 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: delivery company, or working as a journalist or whatever it 172 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: might be, you need to get the government's permission. This 173 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: is devastated community theater, by the way, because they would 174 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: hire a pro to do their lighting, for instance, on 175 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: a you know, a ten ninety nine basis, an independent contractor, 176 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: and there are now severe limits on that. And so 177 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: now all you have is giant theater and like high schools, 178 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: and it's it's crushed community theater. But Tim Sanderfers, Online 179 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: vice president for Litigation at the Goldwater Institute, published poet 180 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: speaking of poems. I saw that tweet a while back. 181 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: Where where do you one of your poems got published 182 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: where First Things magazine. That's that's very impressive. Is that 183 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: the one about the guy from the Nantucket. They wouldn't 184 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: print that one, but I will say I was happy. 185 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: It was the first time that I ever got paid 186 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: for a poem. That's cool. It does happen. People do 187 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: do this, and some people make a living at it. 188 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: And you're a professional poet. That's not that you're a 189 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: professional poet. That's awesome. That's right. I can only do 190 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: thirty four more of them before I need them mission 191 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: from the government of California. Good Lord, when you put 192 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: it like that, my blood boils.