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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sandy and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you, Protection by

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Speaker 2: Heart Radio and welcome to another sub sub subsub sub segment,

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Speaker 2: pictional Women around the World. Today we are talking about

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Speaker 2: Carmen San Diego. There are gonna be some spoilers because

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Speaker 2: there is a new show on Netflix, is there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that.

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Speaker 2: It's a new animated show. Carmen san Diego is voiced

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Speaker 2: by Gina Rodriguez, but I'm not gonna go too much

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Speaker 2: into that because the Lord's deep. My friends, it's pretty new,

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Speaker 2: so and a lot of I just saw, like, wow,

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Speaker 2: the canon is changing so rapidly in Carmen San Diego.

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Speaker 2: But I will talk about it a little bit. What

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Speaker 2: is what is your experience with Carmen san Diego, Samantha.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I grew up in the generation of PBS. Where

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Speaker 3: in the world is Carmen San Diego. I was just

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Speaker 3: talking about the fact that TikTok had a video of

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Speaker 3: the Rockapillas doing the outro song at the end, it's

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Speaker 3: so good.

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Speaker 1: Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?

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Speaker 3: Anyway? All that to say, yes, and I remember so well.

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Speaker 3: I think she was a cartoon. They never actually had

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Speaker 3: a character of her. You just had to find her

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Speaker 3: and the kids would find her and get a prize.

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Speaker 3: It was one of my watches for a little while.

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Speaker 3: It's so vague. It's right there with Captain Kangaroo, Don't Worry,

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Speaker 3: Don't't worry about Me, like in that vagueness. As well

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Speaker 3: as Ghostwriter. It was Ghostwriter and where in the world

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Speaker 3: is Carmen San Diego. Those are the ones that I

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Speaker 3: remember the most, but I still don't remember. But man,

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Speaker 3: it was something.

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Speaker 1: It was something, and I don't know any more about her.

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Speaker 3: I just know the game show.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're gonna learn.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited this is This was a fun one. I'd

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Speaker 2: never really watched the show. Spoiler alert, not really because

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Speaker 2: it's from the eighties. Uh this she actually started as

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Speaker 2: a video game character.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't play any of the games, but I would

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Speaker 2: have loved them.

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Speaker 3: I remember pet playing on the computer. She was a

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Speaker 3: geography game, and I played that as well. I think

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Speaker 3: it was in the third grade. Look it was good.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I would have loved it. I would

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Speaker 1: have loved it.

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Speaker 2: But I think OSMOSI she was just so popular that

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Speaker 2: I somehow knew about her, like I knew the song,

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Speaker 2: I knew how she was gay queer lore for her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I remember that coming on later

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Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sense.

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Speaker 2: I will say a lot of I have several friends

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Speaker 2: who dresses Carmel san Diego for like Halloween and love it.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them are queer.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is something that

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Speaker 2: I've noted in pest.

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Speaker 3: I just remember that being a thing much later. And

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Speaker 3: this is again, this was my childhood, so.

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Speaker 2: Well, I oh my gosh, this was such a fun one.

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Speaker 2: And actually I'm gonna call it out later, but there

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Speaker 2: is a great article you can read about how much

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Speaker 2: this meant to teachers, especially when it came out in

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Speaker 2: the eighties. So okay, yes. Carmen san Diego. The character

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Speaker 2: Carmen san Diego was first introduced in nineteen eighty five

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Speaker 2: and the first of what would grow to become twenty

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Speaker 2: two video games and later three TV shows, some of

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Speaker 2: them Emmy winning multiple board games, books and comics, and

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, Netflix debuted a new series focused on

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Speaker 2: Carmen San Diego. There are classroom resources, books, games that

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Speaker 2: you can use in the class. There's a whole website

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Speaker 2: carmensan Diego dot com you can look up more about this.

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Speaker 2: Her story has recently gone through some retconning, so please

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Speaker 2: feel free to write in if I make mistake. I

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Speaker 2: would actually love to hear about it. I know one

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Speaker 2: of our listeners has.

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Speaker 1: Written about this. Okay, yeah, love it.

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Speaker 2: I love it, yes, okay looking at the game. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, game programmer Dane Bigham started work on

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Speaker 2: what would eventually become the video game Where in the

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Speaker 2: World Is Carmen San Diego. In these early stages, it

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Speaker 2: was really just a framework. It was a graphic based

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Speaker 2: game for kids that was like literally all they knew

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Speaker 2: what they wanted. Eventually, he and his team settled on

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Speaker 2: cops and robbers as a theme because they wanted to

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Speaker 2: differentiate themselves from like a dungeon based game that was

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Speaker 2: really common at the time. So this would have you

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Speaker 2: you would have a clear objective instead of like wandering

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Speaker 2: around to dungeon and maybe not knowing what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Bigham's boss came up with the idea to include a

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Speaker 2: hard copy of the world Almanac and book of facts

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Speaker 2: with the game.

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Speaker 1: This was new, This was like a new thing.

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Speaker 2: This edition also spurred on the idea that the game

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Speaker 2: could add elements of the almanac into it, and this

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Speaker 2: led to the international bit. But the programmers wanted to

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Speaker 2: avoid the educational label because those types of games were

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Speaker 2: not great at the time.

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Speaker 1: They weren't cool.

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Speaker 2: So they were like, how do we add in this

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Speaker 2: almanac but not make it too education at least on

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Speaker 2: the front of it. It doesn't look like that. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of these games at the time relied on

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Speaker 2: blocks of text, like a digital version of a choose

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Speaker 2: your own adventure game, so you like do you go

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Speaker 2: this way or do you go that way? Which wasn't

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Speaker 2: always the clearest for kids. So this game added images

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Speaker 2: to make it more accessible, along with multiple choices of options.

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Speaker 2: So if you haven't seen it and you're a nerd

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Speaker 2: like me, I really recommend looking it up. But it's

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Speaker 2: essentially like a picture of somewhere in a different country,

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Speaker 2: like in Prague, and it'll say, like you find a clue,

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Speaker 2: it's a red whatever for whatever, and it gives you

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Speaker 2: four like multiple choice Like I searched this, so I

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Speaker 2: talked to this person.

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Speaker 1: I do like all these things. I would have loved it.

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Speaker 1: I tell you I would have ate this up.

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Speaker 2: In the game, Carmen san Diego is your main nemesis.

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Speaker 2: She was the leader of the villain's International League of

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Speaker 2: Evil or Vile. She and her crew would steal famous

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Speaker 2: works of art or landmarks. The player who worked for

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Speaker 2: Interpol and later something else but Interpol. It first, oh

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Speaker 2: Acme Acme would use the almanac to interpret clues to

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Speaker 2: figure out where is Carmen san Diego. Basically, plot wise,

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Speaker 2: the player would investigate thefts around the world fine clues

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Speaker 2: that would lead them to the criminals next target, until

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Speaker 2: they caught the criminals, although you could make a mistake

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Speaker 2: and then you would have to backtrack and you would

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Speaker 2: lose time, so there's a time element as well. As

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Speaker 2: the player catches her henchman Carmen. Though she ducks, she alludes.

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Speaker 2: Her wit and ability to evade capture made her something

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Speaker 2: of an anti hero to girls and Latina folks at

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Speaker 2: the time, and in the writing process she went from

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Speaker 2: a minor character to the mastermind. Her character was portrayed

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Speaker 2: as a thief with a heart or a thief who

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Speaker 2: wanted a challenge, but wouldn't hurt anyone. She's more of

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Speaker 2: a prankster than a criminal, and that was a deliberate

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Speaker 2: choice that they made. And you know, I love this.

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Speaker 2: Her henchman had pun names like kin hardly read and

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Speaker 2: polyester fabric. There I almost just read a pole list

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Speaker 2: and then they're so good.

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Speaker 1: It first came out on a floppy disc. Wow, yep, wow.

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I've played that.

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Speaker 2: It took a minute, but sales really took off in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. It was popular and burgeoning school computer labs.

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Speaker 2: So this is around the time when schools were starting

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Speaker 2: to get those and here comes this game that you

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Speaker 2: could use in those computer labs. Within a decade, it

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Speaker 2: had sold four million copies and it led to so

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Speaker 2: many other games, some of them very specific, like where

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Speaker 2: in time is Carmen San Diego? Where in North Dakota

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Speaker 2: is Karmen San Diego? Now that one is the one

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Speaker 2: that I mentioned. You can find a really long article

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Speaker 2: about how it got made. So essentially, teachers in North

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Speaker 2: Dakota were like, this game is great.

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Speaker 1: We love this.

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Speaker 2: What if we could make it North Dakota based. They

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Speaker 2: also loved that it was it wasn't so male and

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Speaker 2: boy focused. The reward for success wasn't a princess or

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Speaker 2: anything like that. They love that, and so they kind

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Speaker 2: of came together. They wrote to the creators, and these

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Speaker 2: teachers came together, like, we love this, we love using

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Speaker 2: it in classrooms, we make lesson plans around it. Can

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Speaker 2: we make this work in North Dakota? And the teachers

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Speaker 2: pretty much did it, Like they came up with all

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Speaker 2: this trivia and worked on it and made it happen.

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Speaker 2: And I believe there was a recent kind of exhibit

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Speaker 2: of it and students who had played it it came

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Speaker 2: in or like I remember loving this game. I have

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Speaker 2: such fond memories of it.

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Speaker 1: It's a great article.

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Speaker 2: I highly recommend looking it up because it's really fun

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Speaker 2: to hear how they work together to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: The live TV show that you mentioned, Samantha on PBS,

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Speaker 2: ran from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety five, and

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Speaker 2: then yes, in twenty nineteen, the Netflix series came out.

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Speaker 2: And in this Carmen was born in Buenos Aires, where

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Speaker 2: she went to study to be a criminal at the

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Speaker 2: Vile Academy for Criminals. Actually, well, I think this is

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Speaker 2: a retcon. Recently, it was revealed she was kidnapped. Oh,

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Speaker 2: and that's why she was at vile Academy for criminals.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, during her time there, she eventually decided to

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Speaker 2: become a force for good and now fights against her

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Speaker 2: old classmates. She is an expert in stealth, an excellent

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Speaker 2: problem solver, proficient at gadgets, and a pro at disguise.

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Speaker 2: I would say in the Netflix show, she's more of

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Speaker 2: a Robin Hood figure, steals from bad people and gives

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Speaker 2: up to good people. I suppose she has your typical

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Speaker 2: spy skills, but like really talented. She doesn't know or

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Speaker 2: doesn't reveal her birth name. She goes by code name

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Speaker 2: Black Sheep. Her father was assassinated trying to protect her

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Speaker 2: as a baby, and she was taken to file and

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Speaker 2: she loses her memories, gets them back.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: And it is.

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Speaker 2: I think it's in season four, so it's been around,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of the reviews.

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Speaker 1: I read of it really enjoyed it. I know I

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Speaker 1: believe it was.

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Speaker 2: Listener Taylor wrote in and said that it was pretty good,

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Speaker 2: except for like some of the more recent episodes, but

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Speaker 2: people that do seem to be enjoying it, and I

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Speaker 2: think like.

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Speaker 1: This character has brought a lot of joy.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people have these fond memories

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Speaker 2: of playing the game or watching the show or what

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Speaker 2: have you. But like you would, you would open the

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Speaker 2: it was really fun reading. One of the creators was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: people like being right, So you know, you'd open the

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Speaker 2: almanac and you'd be like searching what the right answer

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Speaker 2: is to where is Carmen san Diego. But people were

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Speaker 2: kind of learning through this when they wanted to be

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Speaker 2: or not. I think they said the the kids were

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Speaker 2: more likely to use the almanac, the adults were more

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Speaker 2: likely to just guess anyway, There's been a lot written

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Speaker 2: about it. I think it's really fun and really cool.

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Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by the fact she's had this lasting impact.

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Speaker 2: But I think people do like a character like that.

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Speaker 2: She was just fun. She always like managed to escape you.

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Speaker 2: But she was kind of more of a prankster than

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Speaker 2: a villain. Yeah, she was a fun She's a really

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Speaker 2: fun character. And I did find a lot of stories

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Speaker 2: of kids of all backgrounds and genders having really fond

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Speaker 2: memories of her, of thinking she represented how powerful leaders

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Speaker 2: women could be.

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Speaker 1: How smart.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: Gina Rodriguez has a really good story about this where

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Speaker 2: she's talking to her nephew and she's I don't know

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Speaker 2: how it came up, but she was kind of saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, women, unfortunately, you often don't have the same

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Speaker 2: power or like whatever, and her nephew was like, but

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Speaker 2: put in Karma san Diego. She's the leader, she's the head.

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Speaker 2: She's like just like believing. Well, but here I see

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Speaker 2: and I believe in the In the show the Netflix show,

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Speaker 2: most of the white male characters that are working with

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Speaker 2: Interpol are kind of portrayed as like they don't take

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Speaker 2: Carmen san Diego seriously and that is their doubtful.

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Speaker 1: That is their doubtful.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I had a great time researching this one.

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Speaker 3: I love Carmon sand like, I really did. She was

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Speaker 3: one of those that I remember growing up being like,

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Speaker 3: this is a really fun game. There's nothing like, there's

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Speaker 3: nothing concerning, there's nothing problematic about it. And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: then the kids have been doing the show, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think we've competed for computer time to get to

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Speaker 3: play this game. I did not look up Almanacs.

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Speaker 1: I was just right, you just knew.

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Speaker 3: I just knew with what I knew it now hell no.

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Speaker 2: Listen, listeners, look it up. But it is fun, Like

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Speaker 2: I was getting into it just looking at screenshots.

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Speaker 1: I said, oh yeah, worries. It really was a whole thing.

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Speaker 3: I can't even remember, and I'm not gonna tell you,

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Speaker 3: like if I remember anything about the game, I just

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Speaker 3: know I played it, and I just know I loved it.

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Speaker 3: I remember Peggy Carter's outfit was so reminiscent of common

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Speaker 3: San Diego. I didn't know if that was on purpose,

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Speaker 3: m because she is a spy as well, and she

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Speaker 3: travels the world and she's one of the few women

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Speaker 3: like do it like so in my head, they could

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Speaker 3: have been paralleled by obviously not one's Latina and that

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Speaker 3: there's not so right, but she had brown hair.

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Speaker 1: You know, people do things anyway.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was so significant that that's who I

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Speaker 3: thought maybe they had modeled. I didn't realize Marble. I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh dud, that would never but they were

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Speaker 3: so similar in like the hats and the clothes and

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Speaker 3: all like huh huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And a bunch of people did bring up

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Speaker 2: like her style was on point.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, even toodles today at one.

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Speaker 2: Point, yes, yeah, and there are people still writing about this.

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Speaker 2: I found very in depth studies that I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh wow, okay, studying the music music.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you that I remember it clearly.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, I do too, And like I said, I

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Speaker 2: to my knowledge, I didn't even watch it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't play the game, but it got to me

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Speaker 1: even so.

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Speaker 2: As But yes, listeners, we would love to hear from

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Speaker 2: you if you have fond memories of this, or just

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Speaker 2: memories at all, if you play the game, watch the show.

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Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephaniemil stuff at i heeartmedia

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Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mostaff podcast,

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Speaker 2: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a

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Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

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Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer and

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Speaker 2: our contributor Joey.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 2: Stuff I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.

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Speaker 2: For more podcast or my heart Radio, you can check

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