Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of nerd IF sent y'all, how
Speaker 1: you're doing, how you're feeling, how you're doing. It's about
Speaker 1: to be good. We're feeling so good and we want
Speaker 1: you to feel good, which is why we're doing mental
Speaker 1: health may how y'all doing? How you doing? But as always,
Speaker 1: sitting across from me is the hostess with the mostest
Speaker 1: It is Danny Fernandez. Danny, how you don't you know?
Speaker 1: I'm dropping these quarantine photo shoots really proud of myself.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for showering, putting on makeup and doing a
Speaker 1: photo shoot in my kitchen. Everybody was like it was
Speaker 1: so funny because people were like, this is the best
Speaker 1: thing you've ever done, and I'm like, really, this was
Speaker 1: shot on an iPhone and like the lighting is off,
Speaker 1: but thank you. I mean, but that's the Is there
Speaker 1: something to like the grittiness? You know, like how some
Speaker 1: people they you know, they don't want everything on pro there,
Speaker 1: you know, they like the amateur stuff, you know, and
Speaker 1: it adds a level. And also like phones now are
Speaker 1: so good with the right lighting, you can almost get
Speaker 1: like a slight DSLR look to it. Yeah, so I agree,
Speaker 1: I agree with them. They are smacking these uh, these
Speaker 1: images that you've been I just want everyone to feel good.
Speaker 1: I hope that I and people have written me, but
Speaker 1: I really and you do too, like we're so body positive.
Speaker 1: I just really hope people, especially as we age, just
Speaker 1: like really stepping into owning themselves. I think. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: it was like, you should just just decide to be
Speaker 1: hot and then just act accordingly, like it's just you.
Speaker 1: It's just something you can decide because there's tons of
Speaker 1: people that tell us that we're not attractive, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to decide to be like I am
Speaker 1: and all my friends are like, we just decided on it,
Speaker 1: and so I think you can just off great from
Speaker 1: that energy. Yeah, and I agree. I think there's something
Speaker 1: to the energy of, you know, that confidence of being like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm hot, because who like really honestly, if
Speaker 1: like if everyone but the person that you're into thinks
Speaker 1: you're ugly, then who cares? You know it really you know,
Speaker 1: and when you really put it that way, you know
Speaker 1: who cares, and you know it's it's not even more
Speaker 1: of it. Well, I was going to say, speak we
Speaker 1: always talk what we're seeking out about and I've been
Speaker 1: watching We're Here on HBO. So it follows Eureka, Bob
Speaker 1: and Angela from RuPaul's Drag Race as they take people
Speaker 1: and put and put them in drag and they also
Speaker 1: take heteronormative men who have in the past been homophobic
Speaker 1: who are now trying to come to terms with that
Speaker 1: when they were growing up. Uh And anyways, I mean,
Speaker 1: I could guarantee you people have told them that they're ugly.
Speaker 1: People still tell them that they're ugly, and and so
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just something that they've they They're like,
Speaker 1: I'm hot. I know I'm hot, and I've accepted it,
Speaker 1: and you know, I just that's what I want to
Speaker 1: put out there because I think people are like, well,
Speaker 1: it's easy for you to say. It's like, no, I
Speaker 1: have seventy seven thousand followers. I can guarantee like at
Speaker 1: least a thousand people have told me I'm ugly, and
Speaker 1: I can believe no, it's true, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: people will be like, well, I think people don't realize
Speaker 1: that because you know, someone else might be like, well,
Speaker 1: people have told me that I'm like, but have you
Speaker 1: had three thousand people tell you that because kind of different.
Speaker 1: And when you can read YouTube comments of someone you
Speaker 1: know making fun of your face and it gets eight
Speaker 1: hundred likes, that will affect anyone's head. And so but
Speaker 1: I highly recommend watching that. It's just so amazing to
Speaker 1: see people. It's a it's a cultured community that's wrapped
Speaker 1: in love and acceptance. It's people of all different body sizes,
Speaker 1: all different backgrounds, just really embracing themselves. And I love
Speaker 1: when they get all done up, like when the guys
Speaker 1: to like the the guys who are kind of like
Speaker 1: say and offish about it, they get all done up
Speaker 1: and they're like, how do you feel? And they're like, man,
Speaker 1: I feel sexy as well. Like they're just so feeling
Speaker 1: themselves in the makeup and the wigs and they're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get why you do this because you just feel
Speaker 1: so good. Yeah. So definitely check it out on HBO.
Speaker 1: Steal someone's log in if you have to. Yeah, my, my,
Speaker 1: my geek out is very different. Uh. And uh, what
Speaker 1: I'm geeking out about is I just ordered the Criterion
Speaker 1: collection of the show Your Era um of Godzilla. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it's so big, you know. I ordered it off Criterion.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, Like I knew it was going to
Speaker 1: be in book form, but I didn't know it was
Speaker 1: going to be gigantic. So it's sitting up next to
Speaker 1: all my figures and I can't wait to just work
Speaker 1: work my way through it because I did just like
Speaker 1: the other day watch King of the Monsters. God's a
Speaker 1: little King of the Monsters of the newer American one,
Speaker 1: and you know, you know, the same same same fields
Speaker 1: as the first one, where it's like, you know, all
Speaker 1: the kaiju stuff, great, the human element, let's get rid
Speaker 1: of it. We don't need it. We don't need it.
Speaker 1: And it's a very Western thing, which is why you'll
Speaker 1: watch the uh if you watch the Japanese version, like
Speaker 1: the human element in it is very small, unless, of course,
Speaker 1: it's like I talked about this on the Godzilla podcast
Speaker 1: what Haley man siny, where it's like there's typically like
Speaker 1: uh two to three types of Godzilla where it's like
Speaker 1: Godzilla is fighting other Kaiju, and then there's Godzilla versus
Speaker 1: humanity uh and and and the Godzilla movie, um, both
Speaker 1: of them kind of tries to split the difference between
Speaker 1: the two, but you can't really do that because like
Speaker 1: those are two separate things. You know, if it's if
Speaker 1: it's Godzilla versus humanity, then you're you're kind of dealing
Speaker 1: with Okay, now you have the human element, but it's
Speaker 1: also like a movie where there's a lot of loss
Speaker 1: and you're trying to cover because Godzilla, of course is
Speaker 1: a analogy for the atomic bomb, so like that's why
Speaker 1: it's always been that way. But if it's god Zilla
Speaker 1: versus the monsters, there's needs to be so little human
Speaker 1: interaction and less of them, like we're gonna help God's
Speaker 1: all out. No you're not. These are giant monsters. But
Speaker 1: why why are we so obsessed with bullets working against
Speaker 1: giant monsters? Like we just need to prove that there's
Speaker 1: a reason we're spending this much money on our military.
Speaker 1: Uh no, it's gonna be, it's not gonna it's not
Speaker 1: gonna work. But anyway, I still liked it, still enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: It was a fun one. So check that out. If Yeah,
Speaker 1: these are all things both things that we mentioned that
Speaker 1: can be considered self care, which is good because this
Speaker 1: month we're doing the mental health may um yes, and
Speaker 1: today we are covering continuing with our month looking into
Speaker 1: the nerdiness that is brain science and and therapy treatment
Speaker 1: as technology changes and grows. This week we are doing MS,
Speaker 1: which is transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's nerdy as hell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to, like, before we even dive
Speaker 1: into this, just kind of talk about this is something
Speaker 1: you've brought up before. This is also something that you've
Speaker 1: mentioned other folks of note have tried out. So you know, uh,
Speaker 1: let's talk about your relationship to it, because you actually
Speaker 1: have a personal relationship versus you know, anyone else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's something that I did. It was recommended by
Speaker 1: my therapist and my psychiatrist. It is essentially used for
Speaker 1: treatment resistant depression, which means that you have tried prescription medication,
Speaker 1: multiple prescription medications that have not quite worked for you.
Speaker 1: I having a chronic illness and very sensitive to medication,
Speaker 1: so a lot of them. If it's like may cause
Speaker 1: side effects for me, it will It's like go ahead
Speaker 1: and put it will cause side of and so um
Speaker 1: those and yeah, and so it's different. It's typically covered
Speaker 1: by insurance, which we're gonna get into. We're going to
Speaker 1: get into what it is and how it works. But
Speaker 1: I just want to stay off top. It's typically covered
Speaker 1: by insurance, but they normally required that you have had
Speaker 1: failed attempts at antidepressants, which means like I did well
Speaker 1: beutan for months, it didn't work. I did go off
Speaker 1: for munch it didn't work like stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: for me, I think my insurance wanted me to have
Speaker 1: four and I had like three, and I was unwilling
Speaker 1: to do another round. I'm like, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: put myself to another round just to do this. So
Speaker 1: I had the funds at the time to do six
Speaker 1: weeks of TMS. You go in every day you go.
Speaker 1: It is a commitment. Um. So I went in at
Speaker 1: least Monday through Friday every single day in the morning, um,
Speaker 1: and did a round of magnetic stimulation on my head.
Speaker 1: And yes, Neil Brennan is another their person who's been
Speaker 1: really vocal about it. I think we actually have a
Speaker 1: clip that we can play for people kind of like
Speaker 1: just talks a little bit about it. This TMS thing,
Speaker 1: transparanial magnetic stimulation covered by Blue Cross. Huh yeah, uh
Speaker 1: so yeah, that's what like it's it's it was really
Speaker 1: really good. Like I for a lot of my life,
Speaker 1: I felt like I had a All right, I had
Speaker 1: like I had like a thing like it almost felt
Speaker 1: like a metal weight, like a bit of like five
Speaker 1: pound weight on my upper left forehead, my left and
Speaker 1: then so I went to this, whoa dude, that sound
Speaker 1: is like an mri I sound. Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: It is. Yes, it's basically the same exact magnet as
Speaker 1: an m r I. Hey, yeah, they put it on
Speaker 1: your head. It's pretty simple. The first time they measure it.
Speaker 1: They have to get to like the exact spot. There's
Speaker 1: there's another video where my finger is pulsing that you'll
Speaker 1: enjoy And what is it doing to you? Like, what's
Speaker 1: the benefit? Uh, it's basically magnetizing and electrifying. Hey, it's
Speaker 1: waking up basically dead uh synapses according to them. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's it's waking up dead synapses and uh waking
Speaker 1: up dead waking them up. So there dormant, that's what
Speaker 1: they say. We went We went to the on that
Speaker 1: same on that same recording with Joe Rogan. He talked
Speaker 1: about doing ketamine treatment and we went to the same
Speaker 1: doctor and we both did not like it. So I'm
Speaker 1: happy that it's worked for people. But TMS is something
Speaker 1: that we both have done that is really helpful. And
Speaker 1: I talked to Neil about it when I was doing it,
Speaker 1: so he's another person that has been super super vocal
Speaker 1: about about how it's helped him. Nice. Nice, So let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what exactly it is in
Speaker 1: the history of it. Yeah, so transcranial magnetic stimulation. It's
Speaker 1: non invasive form of brain stimulation in which a changing
Speaker 1: magnetic field is used to cause electric current at a
Speaker 1: specific area of the brain through electro magnetic induction. It's like,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? That's a lot, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of info we're That reminds me of like it sounds
Speaker 1: like Michael Scott trying to explain something in the office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where it's just like the or that scene with Ben
Speaker 1: Stiller trying to pray and meet the Fockers. But he's like,
Speaker 1: these three things we pray to see the more dear lead.
Speaker 1: It's just like you're just making up words. Is even
Speaker 1: going on? Yeah, um, we're gonna get fully into that.
Speaker 1: But I did want to tackle the history of TMS. UM.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know the history is Luigi Galvani undertook
Speaker 1: research on the effects of electricity on the body in
Speaker 1: the late eighteenth century and laid the foundation for the
Speaker 1: field of electro physiology. And then in the eighteen thirties,
Speaker 1: Michael Faraday discovered that an electrical current at a corresponding
Speaker 1: magnetic field and the changing one can induce its counterpart
Speaker 1: so work, so they worked to directly stimulate the human
Speaker 1: brain with electricity. Um they started that work in the
Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds and then by the nineteen thirties uh
Speaker 1: Italian physicians uh sir Letti and Binny have developed electro
Speaker 1: convulsive therapy, also known as ect. ECT became widely used
Speaker 1: to treat mental illness, and ultimately it was overused and
Speaker 1: soon it just became a u as a panacea. And
Speaker 1: this led to backlash in the nineteen seventies because I
Speaker 1: think this is when they were doing like the more
Speaker 1: like electro shock therapy stuff that is that was that
Speaker 1: was not as I guess we'll say, thought out. But
Speaker 1: then in the nineteen h and nineteen eighty Merton and Morton,
Speaker 1: the you know, they they had to team up, team
Speaker 1: up just because of their name. They're like, well, Merten
Speaker 1: and Morton, we got to be a squad. So then
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, Merten and Morton successfully used transcranial electrical
Speaker 1: stimulation to stimulate the motor cortex. However, this process was
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable, and subsequently, Anthony T. Barker began to search
Speaker 1: for an alternative to t e S. They began exploring
Speaker 1: the use of magnetic fields to alter electrical signaling within
Speaker 1: the brain, and the first stable TMS devices were developed
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five. So that's not too long though,
Speaker 1: that's you know, you know, three years before me and
Speaker 1: Danny started walking this earth. Uh. But they were originally uh,
Speaker 1: they were originally intended as a diagnostic to research devices,
Speaker 1: with evaluation of their therapeutic potential being a later development.
Speaker 1: In the United States, FDA first approved TMS devices in
Speaker 1: October of two thousand and eight. So this is fresh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But what's fascinating is it's been out for over a
Speaker 1: decade and yet it's still not commonly used. It's still
Speaker 1: not commonly prescribed. Um. Do you think it also, you know,
Speaker 1: just as a more general discussion, do you think it's
Speaker 1: because you know, like my, my, you are have been
Speaker 1: the person who have kind of taught me about t MS.
Speaker 1: T MS and before you brought it up, I never
Speaker 1: heard about it, but even just the description until like
Speaker 1: you were like, no, this is how it works. It
Speaker 1: does seem like I think with because of the way
Speaker 1: electroshock therapy was used. I think it makes it harder
Speaker 1: for people to like wrap their brains around it. Do
Speaker 1: you feel that way or do you think it's just
Speaker 1: people not enough people know about it. I think it's
Speaker 1: because and I was watching, you know, preparing for this,
Speaker 1: I was watching psychs talk about it, and I think
Speaker 1: it's because they're not trained in it. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times traditional if you look at professors that
Speaker 1: have been around for decades now, this was not in
Speaker 1: their wheelhouse. And so it's the same thing that we
Speaker 1: see in the chronic illness community dealing with autoimmune disorders.
Speaker 1: There's so much emerging science, and yet if you it's
Speaker 1: your responsibility, I would say as a doctor to continue
Speaker 1: to learn. You're never done learning. And good doctors know that,
Speaker 1: but not all of them operate that way. And so
Speaker 1: I think the first line of defense is always prescription medication,
Speaker 1: and which I totally understand and get um. But when
Speaker 1: that's not working, it's normally not always in their text book.
Speaker 1: I feel like when I was being treated for autoimmune,
Speaker 1: for even my hashimotos, it was like, oh, you just
Speaker 1: take a pill, you take a thyroid pill, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: this isn't working. I need other I need alternative treatments
Speaker 1: on top of this. And so if they're not constantly
Speaker 1: searching for new information, I think that's why. And and
Speaker 1: they talked about that openly, and some of the interviews
Speaker 1: that I watched is that it's just that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: not all psykes do t ms or recommend to ms. Also,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the pharmaceutical industry because that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: And I go, if you're going to disappear next week,
Speaker 1: don't talk about it. But it's so interesting because I
Speaker 1: used to work, um one of my early jobs is
Speaker 1: they used to be a receptionist at a doctor's office.
Speaker 1: And I remember every week like it was either like
Speaker 1: a Wednesday or Thursday. It was real good because we
Speaker 1: had we we wouldn't have to bring lunch because some
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company is gonna come and they buy us lunch.
Speaker 1: And it took me a while to realize that they're
Speaker 1: essentially trying to butter the office up so the doctor
Speaker 1: can specifically use They're like, they're like, um, prescription of
Speaker 1: it that way when you really think of it from
Speaker 1: the inside out that way, you're like, then then that
Speaker 1: when you think of it, they're not prescribing you based
Speaker 1: on like necessarily what they feel is best. I think
Speaker 1: that the doctors have the best one in mind, especially
Speaker 1: the one that I worked for. I will say you
Speaker 1: totally was like, yeah, they're just trying to get me
Speaker 1: to buy it, but I like what I like. But
Speaker 1: I'll always say yes to free lunch, so shout out
Speaker 1: to him. But um, but other doctors, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're you know, if you're if you're getting wind and
Speaker 1: dine and someone's really taking care of you quote unquote, uh,
Speaker 1: then now you're prescribing based on that and not necessarily
Speaker 1: what is best. And it's funny that you said that,
Speaker 1: how you're like, good doctors are staying ahead of the
Speaker 1: curve because you know, it's very similar in a way
Speaker 1: to like, um, computer science and I T But the
Speaker 1: only difference is if you don't stay ahead of the curve,
Speaker 1: you just become obsolete, Like you're not a good idea
Speaker 1: if you're not constantly learning where doctors if there's so
Speaker 1: much you know, history, medical history that they can kind
Speaker 1: of get by by being like, no, this is work
Speaker 1: for the longest that we're gonna try this. Unfortunately, though,
Speaker 1: if that doesn't work, then you're kind of just yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's the whole thing that that could be a
Speaker 1: whole long discussion that I'm sure Danny has lots lots
Speaker 1: and lots of thoughts, because you've got a multiple on whammy.
Speaker 1: You got the whammy of having chronic illness, which is
Speaker 1: one of which is hard to get the doctors to
Speaker 1: even understand you. Then as a woman, it's hard to
Speaker 1: get doctors to believe you, and as a woman of color,
Speaker 1: it's even like that. It's just like three strikes of
Speaker 1: doctors just not taking your word for it. And the
Speaker 1: closest I've got to that, which in the one time
Speaker 1: it happened, which it was really frustrating, was like when
Speaker 1: I was at the dentist and I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's not numb enough, and because I'm this big black dude,
Speaker 1: they're like, no, you're good, and just almost when I
Speaker 1: almost jumped out the chair and knocked and knocked him out,
Speaker 1: and then not trying to hit him. I'm just like
Speaker 1: it jerked because he did go. He finally did it.
Speaker 1: But it's like I had to experience pain for you
Speaker 1: to listen to me. You just you just were so sure.
Speaker 1: It's so the frustration is real, and it is. I
Speaker 1: was going to say, as far as staying ahead of
Speaker 1: the curve, there is a huge community on Reddit as
Speaker 1: when it comes to electric magnetic stimulation. Now I will say,
Speaker 1: please do not do this. There is an entire you
Speaker 1: know what I'm gonna say. If you people have built
Speaker 1: their own UM and I watched videos on it and
Speaker 1: a lot of people swear by it. Here's the thing
Speaker 1: that with with the placement, which we're going to get into,
Speaker 1: because these are specifically placed, as Neil said, they have
Speaker 1: to measure your head and place it in a certain
Speaker 1: specific area. If you mess up that area and you're
Speaker 1: just a little bit off, it can make it worse.
Speaker 1: It can make things worse for you. Um, you can
Speaker 1: be exhausted, you could be more depressed, you could like
Speaker 1: it's just not just go and get it done, especially
Speaker 1: now that most insurances will cover it. I want to say, um,
Speaker 1: since insurance companies are shady, have no problem saying this
Speaker 1: UM and and that is when they say when my
Speaker 1: insurance company was like, oh you have to have four
Speaker 1: failed treatments, it's um self self proclaimed or whatever that is.
Speaker 1: I messed up by telling them that I didn't. But
Speaker 1: they don't go back and check because I don't even
Speaker 1: remember some of my doctors that I had years ago.
Speaker 1: So that's just a little heads up for people, UM
Speaker 1: that they don't they don't check. If you've had for now,
Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, that's irresponsible. Whatever. Again, being
Speaker 1: someone that has a chronic illness, sometimes you have to
Speaker 1: play the game because the game is being played on you.
Speaker 1: So speaking on that, we have to go and take
Speaker 1: a quick break. I want to say before we hop
Speaker 1: into more, I am not a licensed professional. I am
Speaker 1: just a patient who has been in the mental health
Speaker 1: care UH community for years now. And I also, as
Speaker 1: you know, if I worked in cardiac rehab, so I
Speaker 1: did actually work in a hospital. My my training is
Speaker 1: in kinesiology. That's what I have. My bachelor's from Texas
Speaker 1: and Texas. I like that you specify that it's from Texas,
Speaker 1: Like I got my bachelor's from Texas well. Well, the
Speaker 1: University of Texas is very hard to get into. They
Speaker 1: only take the top eight if you are in Texas.
Speaker 1: If you go to a public school in Texas, you
Speaker 1: get automatic exception uh into the school if you're in
Speaker 1: the top eight percent of your class. So it is
Speaker 1: the one of the best business schools, one of the
Speaker 1: best um premed pro like. It's just it's a really
Speaker 1: great school. Also has a ton of money that's funneled
Speaker 1: into it for sports. That makes us a lot of
Speaker 1: money and all the Nike and Gatorade and whatever like.
Speaker 1: So anyways, um, we're gonna take a quick break. We're
Speaker 1: gonna hop into more TMS right after this we are back.
Speaker 1: We're still talking about TMS diving into some nerdy brain
Speaker 1: science and so how does this work? What was all
Speaker 1: the gogglly goop that I was talking about just throwing
Speaker 1: around electrodes and and magnets and brain um. So, essentially,
Speaker 1: an electromagnetic coil is placed against your scalp near your forehead.
Speaker 1: Now they literally measure this. Um. They actually for me,
Speaker 1: if I remember when they were doing it, they kind
Speaker 1: of test it. It's supposed to make your finger twitch.
Speaker 1: I think specifically you're either your index or your it
Speaker 1: was supposed to make one of your fingers twitch, and
Speaker 1: then they knew that they hit the right spot for you,
Speaker 1: which on everybody is different depending on your head. And
Speaker 1: I have a huge, a huge head. Um. So the
Speaker 1: electromagnetic painlessly delivers a magnetic pulse that stimulates nerve cells
Speaker 1: in the region of your brain involved in mood control
Speaker 1: and depression. So what was fascinating to me, Neil, I
Speaker 1: think in if we had continued that Joe Rogan interview,
Speaker 1: he I think actually did it for thirty minutes, which
Speaker 1: is how they used to do it. Now they've had
Speaker 1: advancements where I only did it for three minutes, So
Speaker 1: I him in like I was in and out within
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, like they strapped the thing on my head.
Speaker 1: They made sure it was in the correct placement. Once
Speaker 1: they have the correct placement for you, they keep your
Speaker 1: cap like with your name on it, with your placement,
Speaker 1: so they can just put it on your head every
Speaker 1: time and check. They still checked and made sure that
Speaker 1: my finger would twitch, you know that they had in
Speaker 1: the right spot, especially me having as much hair as
Speaker 1: I do. UM. So yeah, it was only three minutes,
Speaker 1: two to three minutes, I think, and What was fascinating
Speaker 1: is they did one side for depression and then they
Speaker 1: did another side for anxiety, and my anxiety was only
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds, so they would just do that for fifteen
Speaker 1: seconds and then stop. So it's different for everyone depending
Speaker 1: on where you're at. Though the biology of y TMS
Speaker 1: works isn't completely understood. This is from the Mayo Clinic.
Speaker 1: The stimulation appears to impact how the brain is working,
Speaker 1: which in turn seems to ease depression symptoms and improve mood. Now,
Speaker 1: the difference between Neil and I that I talked to
Speaker 1: him about is he was also on medication while he
Speaker 1: did it and I was not, So I was going
Speaker 1: raw in. But a lot of people at that sounded aggressive.
Speaker 1: My my psych was like, it would be more beneficial
Speaker 1: if you were on an antidepressant, so it just raises
Speaker 1: your baseline. But for me, because of the side effects
Speaker 1: of the antidepressant, it was not. I would rather have
Speaker 1: just done t m S. T MS was my antidepressant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like Neil and Joe were saying, it's similar to an MRI.
Speaker 1: The magnetic field is about the same strength as an
Speaker 1: m r I and the pulse generally reaches no more
Speaker 1: than five centimeters into the brain. Um, you don't have
Speaker 1: It's not I don't want to say it's painful, but
Speaker 1: it is. It does feel like if someone had a
Speaker 1: long nail and was repeatedly tapping your head, it gets sore.
Speaker 1: So the next day, what what were you gonna say?
Speaker 1: That sounds intense. Yes, it gets sore because you're doing
Speaker 1: it repeatedly. So the first day it feels like, Okay,
Speaker 1: someone just tapping my head, But if someone taps the
Speaker 1: same spot on your head, by the fifth day, it's
Speaker 1: going to be a little sore. However, it's not, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not like super painful or anything. The
Speaker 1: I would say a common side effect that I never
Speaker 1: really had is having a headache after that's common, and
Speaker 1: then also fatigue that I did have. Because you're stimulating
Speaker 1: your brain, you're kind of it's kind of like if
Speaker 1: you were to do an intense like do you get
Speaker 1: headaches or do you feel fatigued after your have like
Speaker 1: an intense gaming session where it feels like you were
Speaker 1: using your brain too? Oh yeah, definitely yeah, and you're
Speaker 1: just like, oh, what's cool about tea mass is that
Speaker 1: it's not just also depression it seems like they've shown,
Speaker 1: you know, potential with neurologic conditions such as Alzheimer's uh
Speaker 1: amatrophic lateral soleurosis, persistent vegetative states, epilepsy, stroke related disabilit
Speaker 1: of these, tonitus, multiple sclerosis, schizophrenia, and traumatic brain energy
Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury. So this is you know, kind of
Speaker 1: remarkable that it's pretty great, and I'm almost excited to
Speaker 1: see where it goes from here because you know, like,
Speaker 1: like it said, FDA approved it in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: so we're about twelve years in, so you know what,
Speaker 1: what's more to come? You know. Yeah, it's actually very
Speaker 1: common with PTSD, so I would say it's up there.
Speaker 1: The amount of people who are prescribed it for depression,
Speaker 1: I would say PTSD is also up there um. And
Speaker 1: for me it did as far as how I felt after,
Speaker 1: I felt immediately better right after, but then that kind
Speaker 1: of fades away, which is why I would say the
Speaker 1: typical treatment is about six weeks UM, with people returning
Speaker 1: for boosters as my my cycle would call them, like
Speaker 1: after you know, it's supposed to last for the year,
Speaker 1: but some people needed after and needed again after three
Speaker 1: months after doing a six week treatment they need, you know,
Speaker 1: three to six months. They need to come back in.
Speaker 1: What I did want to say is the cost, which
Speaker 1: we're still dealing with. I mean, drugs treatment in general
Speaker 1: is just absurd in this country. Um. My people worked
Speaker 1: with me. I think it was for six weeks. I
Speaker 1: think I paid like four grand. Um. And again this
Speaker 1: is somebody that has that needed it. It says a
Speaker 1: single t MS session for depressive disorders averages about three
Speaker 1: fifty dollars, and you're doing five sessions of a week.
Speaker 1: A full course of treatment could cost between six thousand
Speaker 1: to twelve thousand, depending on the number of treatments. Again,
Speaker 1: a lot of insurances do cover it. However, it should
Speaker 1: be the same as my depression medicine, right, My depression
Speaker 1: medicine I think is like ten to twenty bucks. And
Speaker 1: this is technically a depressive treatment for depression. Um, it
Speaker 1: is wild that it would cost that much. Especially at
Speaker 1: a lot of these psych places. They have the machine already,
Speaker 1: they bought the machine, they have it. Um. Most of
Speaker 1: them are willing to work with your budget in some
Speaker 1: type of way because again they're just they want to help. Um.
Speaker 1: We are lucky to be in Los Angeles where there
Speaker 1: are multiple TMS places I know other states. Is probably
Speaker 1: not because again it's still relatively I don't want to
Speaker 1: say it's new, it's just not as accepted in common. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about your what it's like when you go in?
Speaker 1: Yes please? So. Um, So, before treatment begins, your doctor
Speaker 1: will need to identify the best place to put the
Speaker 1: magnets on your head and the best dose of magnetic
Speaker 1: energy for you. So that's another thing. So Neil's dose
Speaker 1: is going to be different than my dose. Again, they're
Speaker 1: placing it, they're trying to find the right spot, and
Speaker 1: they will keep moving it around. They're kind of like
Speaker 1: little zaps on your head. I like to think of
Speaker 1: it as like the pimples zapper or whatever, Like it's
Speaker 1: just a little up, little zap on your head and
Speaker 1: they'll keep so, they'll put it in the spot that
Speaker 1: they think it should go, and they keep turning it
Speaker 1: up again until your finger moves. Um. But I have
Speaker 1: had other areas of my body twitch like I think
Speaker 1: maybe like my shoulder I can touch once and like yeah,
Speaker 1: um yeah. So your your doctor will determine the amount
Speaker 1: of magnetic energy needed by increasing the magnetic dose until
Speaker 1: your fingers or hands twitch. That's known as your motor threshold,
Speaker 1: and that's used as a reference point in determining the
Speaker 1: right dose. So during each treatment, I'm gonna see I
Speaker 1: know Neil posted a picture of himself. I'm gonna I
Speaker 1: have a picture of myself. Um, so I'll see about
Speaker 1: posting it. It's really a vulnerable thing, you know, when
Speaker 1: you're doing true. I think I sent you a picture.
Speaker 1: Did you remember that if you when I had like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was why I think I said to to Roy
Speaker 1: with Jr. Because we had just sold uh the show
Speaker 1: that I did for HBO, max On on Depression in
Speaker 1: the mental health care system. So I'm definitely an have
Speaker 1: TMS hopefully in our show. But I remember sending that
Speaker 1: to him. You're in essentially a doctor's chair that looks
Speaker 1: like a dentist chair. You're like lean back. Another thing
Speaker 1: that they have is um typically in office and the
Speaker 1: offices they have Netflix up so you can watch Netflix
Speaker 1: while you're doing it. But it's funny to me it
Speaker 1: would be different for like I said, um, Neils, which
Speaker 1: was like thirty minutes, because you can actually watch an
Speaker 1: episode of something. Mine was like three minutes and I
Speaker 1: was like, what is the point? It was really funny
Speaker 1: because I came in I'm going to get I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get crapped for this. But I came in and somebody
Speaker 1: whoever was in front of me was watching um Ricky Gervais,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I feel this will make me
Speaker 1: feel worse. Yeah, you'll just have a negative connotation with
Speaker 1: t MS. Yeah exactly. I think it's really funny, like
Speaker 1: are you gonna watch the Sopranos while you're getting TMS?
Speaker 1: Like what are people choosing to watch? I always have
Speaker 1: them turn it off because I just wanted a moment
Speaker 1: of calmness, I think when I was doing it, or
Speaker 1: I'll have them put on one of the things on
Speaker 1: the TV settings is just like a meditative you know,
Speaker 1: screen saver type of of water the ocean. Um. So
Speaker 1: they do have that even at mind even though it's
Speaker 1: only three minutes long, you can start three minutes. Well.
Speaker 1: I think how they did it is if you were
Speaker 1: watching something like whoever it was watching the Ricky Gervas special,
Speaker 1: it was saved at whatever they left off, so when
Speaker 1: they came in the next day they can watch another
Speaker 1: three minutes and really just keep chunking along. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's the best way to ingest that special three minutes.
Speaker 1: Three minutes. Yeah, Quimby should have made three minute episodes
Speaker 1: for people that have TMS. Um. Okay, so you're sitting
Speaker 1: in this dentist's chair. Um, your they give you ear plugs.
Speaker 1: They give you ear plugs, which I never needed. Um,
Speaker 1: I just didn't like using them. And then when the
Speaker 1: machine is turned on, you hear clicking sounds that are
Speaker 1: tapping your head. Um. Again, this is from the Mayo clinic.
Speaker 1: It'll last about forty minutes. Mine was not that. My
Speaker 1: My psych had a different treatment. Um, so mine was
Speaker 1: much shorter. And then you can you can go about
Speaker 1: your day. You can drive yourself home. You know. I
Speaker 1: found this sweet spot where I worked out before I
Speaker 1: did it, so I had all of these endorphins going
Speaker 1: and then I would go to my treatment. I would
Speaker 1: drive over from the gym and do my treatment. Um,
Speaker 1: I do not sweat and work out as hard as you, iffy,
Speaker 1: So it was more it was more something like I
Speaker 1: wasn't all sweaty going in there. Um. I would go
Speaker 1: over and uh and then do it and it would
Speaker 1: be like a massive boost where I remember one day
Speaker 1: I was driving to the post office and I was
Speaker 1: so happy. I was like, is this how people feel
Speaker 1: that don't have depression? It was wild. Um, it was
Speaker 1: kind of like Jabouki's tweet where it was like wow people.
Speaker 1: It was essentially his tweet was like, people aren't on antidepressants.
Speaker 1: You're just like raw dogging the world, like you're just
Speaker 1: walking through life like just raw. Like you know, we
Speaker 1: kind of have like a protective filter. I feel like
Speaker 1: with medicine and so doing that combo though, I remember
Speaker 1: I was on a high. I had like a high
Speaker 1: when I was leaving and I was like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe that I could feel like this all the time.
Speaker 1: That's so dope. Now afterwards it did kind of wear
Speaker 1: off and I didn't see immediate results. I would say,
Speaker 1: you know, they are nice. Thing is that my psych
Speaker 1: checked in with me constantly asking like okay, well, if
Speaker 1: if you're feeling okay, we can increase your dose, we
Speaker 1: can increase your voltage, if you're not having any side effects,
Speaker 1: if you're not having headaches. Yeah, but I you know,
Speaker 1: it's up and down. What I really want to say,
Speaker 1: as we're covering mental health, may and all of these
Speaker 1: different treatments. Is it's a learning process and it's an
Speaker 1: ever evolving process. Depending on what's happening in your life,
Speaker 1: you might need something else. So for me, I just
Speaker 1: think of myself as a guinea pig where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try this, I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep trying things until I just you know, get into
Speaker 1: the place that I want to be. But I'll probably
Speaker 1: go back to t MS. But I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think it's like a curel. I don't think it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll do this for six weeks one time and then
Speaker 1: my lifelong generational trauma is just solved. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's good, a good break from it, right Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's it's again. And also if
Speaker 1: you can get it covered, I think it's a great um,
Speaker 1: a great a great treatment to try, you know, constantly,
Speaker 1: just try. And Neil said it saved his life, right,
Speaker 1: So he was the same with me, like he was
Speaker 1: in a suicidal episode where ketamine didn't work for him.
Speaker 1: Ketamine made me feel worse. To be honest, do clinical
Speaker 1: ketamine again. I did not do it. I didn't do
Speaker 1: special k uh from like a dealer. I did clinical
Speaker 1: ketamine under the person, under the supervision of a in
Speaker 1: a doctor's office. Yeah, and so it saved his life.
Speaker 1: So he's you know, and I am here and other
Speaker 1: people that have done it are here because we during
Speaker 1: this suicidal depressive episode, chose to do t MS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's dope on that note, We're going to take another break,
Speaker 1: hopefully not getting too heavy. Um, we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: jump more into this electro magnetic stimulation and talk about
Speaker 1: the future of it right after this. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: near defficent. I'm if you want the ways sitting across
Speaker 1: from me digitally Danny Fernandez when we're talking about t
Speaker 1: m AS today, and if you don't know what that is,
Speaker 1: that's transcranial magnetic stimulation. Uh, something Danny knows about. We've
Speaker 1: been talking about. We went through the history and all
Speaker 1: of that. You know, I think you know we Danny
Speaker 1: when we went to break said she forgot to give
Speaker 1: this disclaimer, but we're gonna say it anyway. Obviously, transcranial
Speaker 1: magnetic stimulation is you can't do it if you have
Speaker 1: a metal plate in your head. Um, not not no, boy, no,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's a couple of other contrary like you
Speaker 1: can't do it if you're I don't know if pregnant
Speaker 1: people can do it. Your doctor will definitely talk to
Speaker 1: you about it. They will not let you do it.
Speaker 1: Just make sure that you're super open with them about anything,
Speaker 1: even even stuff that you're feeling afterwards. Obviously, if you
Speaker 1: have like side effects, let them know, keep them abreast.
Speaker 1: Oh and this is just in general. If you have
Speaker 1: side effects with your medicine, please keep your doctor abreast
Speaker 1: of them. I think I was dealing with a lot
Speaker 1: of fatigue with a certain antidepressant I was on. It
Speaker 1: just felt like even if I had an energy drink,
Speaker 1: I couldn't fully wake up. It was just kind of
Speaker 1: like I was in a daze. And I told my
Speaker 1: doctor about it and so we we switched. But I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people just accept it. And I
Speaker 1: would say, you never know what other medicine is out there,
Speaker 1: so definitely keep them abreast of your because they were like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's not helpful. They want you to feel your best,
Speaker 1: especially if it's a medicine that you're taking every day.
Speaker 1: So definitely, this is just for mental health may let
Speaker 1: them know about your side effects, check in with them,
Speaker 1: email them, talk to them. You should be, you know,
Speaker 1: in contact with the person that is essentially prescribing you
Speaker 1: things for your brain and your life, you know. So
Speaker 1: so keep them abreast, Keep them abreast. Danny has been
Speaker 1: choosing some some some choices of words this episode. I
Speaker 1: feel like trying to be careful. The teen is getting
Speaker 1: to her, the teens who are saying abreast, she said,
Speaker 1: going in raw, I'm like, Danny, well, um, if I was,
Speaker 1: you mentioned e c T and I kind of just
Speaker 1: wanted to follow up and talk about the different It's
Speaker 1: really quick between e c T and TMS. So e
Speaker 1: c T is electron electro convulsive therapy, and it is
Speaker 1: different in that it essentially intentionally causes a series of
Speaker 1: generalized seizures. Now TMS does not do that. E c
Speaker 1: T is administered in a hospital setting. T MS is
Speaker 1: also done that or at your doctor's office. But because
Speaker 1: the treatment is designed to cause a series of generalized seizures,
Speaker 1: patients are given muscle relaxants to prevent damage to muscles
Speaker 1: and bones during seizures. Some studies which we will link,
Speaker 1: I think super producer Joel has one for us that's
Speaker 1: from Psychiatric Times. Some studies that they have done have
Speaker 1: shown e C e C T to be more effective.
Speaker 1: Now to me, it sounds much more I guess the
Speaker 1: word that's coming up is traumatic. Uh. Then then TMS,
Speaker 1: which doesn't involve inducing seizures, so that seems to be
Speaker 1: a more serious, intense treatment. However, it is an option
Speaker 1: and has helped other people. So I think as long
Speaker 1: as you're under the supervision of a doctor, definitely just
Speaker 1: talk talking out like the you know, these treatments are
Speaker 1: not for everybody. But as far as TMS, there are
Speaker 1: very very small side effects, I would say, and hasn't
Speaker 1: really nothing really serious, uh that I have found or
Speaker 1: that my my psychiatrist has found. So you said it's
Speaker 1: completely painless, right this whole procedure. I want to say,
Speaker 1: t MS feels like somebody tapping your head repeatedly, So
Speaker 1: it feels like a finger tapping your head. I want
Speaker 1: to say, like a would you describe it as like
Speaker 1: a small thump as if you're like, no, it feels
Speaker 1: like somebody that has fake nails is tapping, but like
Speaker 1: it doesn't, it's not. It feels more sore than anything.
Speaker 1: You know, those like and other people with TMS will
Speaker 1: probably be like, that's not what it feels like at all.
Speaker 1: The studies have said like it's pretty much painless. For me,
Speaker 1: it just felt sore. It feels like if someone with
Speaker 1: with uh fake nails is poking your skin and they
Speaker 1: just like at first, it's like, yeah, I can handle that,
Speaker 1: but then if they're doing it repeatedly, it starts to
Speaker 1: get a little like tender is the word I would
Speaker 1: use in that area. That's what it feels like. And
Speaker 1: it's just a tiny but it does feel like a
Speaker 1: little a mix between a zap and a tap tap. Kay.
Speaker 1: Another thing I want to say is you, uh, this
Speaker 1: is more because we've we've talked about this obviously why
Speaker 1: you're doing the treatment, but sometimes you would kind of
Speaker 1: be like exhausted and fatigued after uh some of these treatments.
Speaker 1: Was that something that you felt from the beginning or
Speaker 1: is it after so many treatments you felt like, okay,
Speaker 1: that like it starts to wear on you. I think
Speaker 1: it just depended on the day, but it definitely did.
Speaker 1: I definitely did feel fatigued certain days. Um, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like that feeling when you have a lot of
Speaker 1: caffeine and then you're tired after. So that wasn't permanent
Speaker 1: and didn't happen all the time, but definitely sometimes. I
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, my psych and I we're very
Speaker 1: much in communication. So she actually let me come in
Speaker 1: in the afternoons, which they have been doing studies on
Speaker 1: at different universities as far as people doing it twice
Speaker 1: a day. Because I was having no side of no
Speaker 1: ill side effects, she allowed me to come in for
Speaker 1: free and do an afternoon one because I think I
Speaker 1: just needed an extra boost. Again, I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of things to try to treat my depression. You know.
Speaker 1: She was like, Okay, if you're not having any negative
Speaker 1: side effects, I feel okay with you coming in and
Speaker 1: doing this for this allotted amount of time. So I
Speaker 1: actually did it twice a day. But I think another
Speaker 1: question I might have is, so you know, someone might
Speaker 1: be listening to this and they're kind of on the
Speaker 1: fence of whether or not they should have it. Do
Speaker 1: you have any like words of wisdom that you said,
Speaker 1: like you should definitely considered it if this or if
Speaker 1: not that, or the third a couple of things I
Speaker 1: would you can always call and talk to someone on
Speaker 1: the phone. They always do free consultations, so you can
Speaker 1: look up t MS. If it's not in your immediate area,
Speaker 1: it may be worth dry, it may be worth investing it.
Speaker 1: And still, and we're talking about people that have tried
Speaker 1: multiple avenues to cure their depression. So a lot of
Speaker 1: times when you've hit this one, you're really desperate and
Speaker 1: you again, like he said last episode, you kind of
Speaker 1: would do anything to treat it. And when not in
Speaker 1: the same vein. But when my uncle was trying to
Speaker 1: battle um he had stomach cancer, my my um aunt
Speaker 1: would drive him almost two hours to the treatment place
Speaker 1: because they just wanted the best treatment for him. UM.
Speaker 1: So I understand that not everyone has that option, but
Speaker 1: it might be worth looking into. If even a place is,
Speaker 1: you know, farther away from you, definitely have a consultation though,
Speaker 1: and talk to them about it. I am not a
Speaker 1: licensed professional. I am just somebody who has done a
Speaker 1: lot of these treatments who can speak in the same
Speaker 1: way that Neil or other people with large platforms have
Speaker 1: spoken about it saving their life. So if this saves
Speaker 1: somebody's life, then I feel that I've helped in some way,
Speaker 1: but again I am constantly Next week where covering E
Speaker 1: M d R, which is something else I've done, which
Speaker 1: other people have been maybe I'll get some writers and
Speaker 1: stuff to talk about it, but other people have been
Speaker 1: very vocal of how it helped them. So I think
Speaker 1: one thing that I would say, if you're like me
Speaker 1: and you're just trying all these different things, to know
Speaker 1: that it's okay to constantly you know, like Dr or
Speaker 1: Lickman said last episode, it can be a lifetime of
Speaker 1: healing and technology is constantly changing. So I have had
Speaker 1: many times where I've wanted to give up, but luckily
Speaker 1: staying in contact with my psychs and my therapists, it's like,
Speaker 1: let's keep trying, Danny. Let's not let's just keep you know,
Speaker 1: let's keep working at this and finding something that works
Speaker 1: for you. So I just wanted to instill that in
Speaker 1: people that there is hope, there's constantly you know. And
Speaker 1: on top of that, I was still doing talk therapy.
Speaker 1: I feel talk therapy is something I'm always going to
Speaker 1: have to do, but it doesn't hit everywhere that it
Speaker 1: needs to necessarily for some of us. So that's why
Speaker 1: some of these other treatments on top of doing talk
Speaker 1: therapy can be beneficial. Yeah, I agree with you. I
Speaker 1: think that everyone should be doing talk to therapy. I
Speaker 1: think we were talking about that a little last week
Speaker 1: where you're just surprised. I think just we as human beings, uh,
Speaker 1: hold hold in so much because there's so much of
Speaker 1: this suck it up mentality, and really the more you
Speaker 1: kind of break it down and look into it, it's
Speaker 1: just people want you to carry not only your own burdens,
Speaker 1: but then when it comes time to carry their burden.
Speaker 1: It's very selfishness that has been amplified in a weird
Speaker 1: way with so much uh, with so much social media. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I just look at it the same way
Speaker 1: where like just mere weeks from yelling at people to
Speaker 1: just the law and and somehow trying to make it. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, a person of colors fault, they're killed by
Speaker 1: the police, they're now outside trying to disobey the law
Speaker 1: for the stay at home orders simply because they don't
Speaker 1: agree with it, you know you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it's not even because there's any noble reason, so
Speaker 1: it that just kind of I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: really just I guess It's something I always knew, but
Speaker 1: it really just kind of highlighted how much it is
Speaker 1: true that people don't necessarily believe in rules or expect rules.
Speaker 1: It's more so just that. And I think the same
Speaker 1: goes from mental health and on a societal level, we
Speaker 1: just think we have to bear this burden. We don't
Speaker 1: want to, especially a lot of people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want to bug you out, especially a lot
Speaker 1: of I find depressed people feel so much that they
Speaker 1: have to take care of others and not themselves, and
Speaker 1: often forget to put their mask on first. And that's
Speaker 1: why you need to talk to somebody, because you'd be
Speaker 1: surprised how simply talking and letting how you feel and
Speaker 1: how you think you make other people feel off your
Speaker 1: chests will just lift you up. And then I think
Speaker 1: Danny's really hitting something home that I want everyone to know.
Speaker 1: It's just like, if that doesn't work, don't give up,
Speaker 1: just keep keeping keep trying their treatments, don't give up,
Speaker 1: keep trying there, just keep fighting. You're better here. Well, yes,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to say that goes for therapists, to um.
Speaker 1: Some therapists I've clicked with some therapists I have left
Speaker 1: and never made another UM appointment therapist to me or
Speaker 1: like doctors, they're not perfect there, you know, some of
Speaker 1: them are limited in their understanding. UM. A lot of
Speaker 1: times it's equated to dating to like finding the right
Speaker 1: therapist for you. I do want to say, if you
Speaker 1: find someone and you're like, oh, this is not working
Speaker 1: for me, find someone else. You know they they're you're
Speaker 1: paying them again, you're paying That's how I feel about doctors.
Speaker 1: And you're like, how do you deal with with not
Speaker 1: being listened to? I'm like, oh, I'm just not going
Speaker 1: to see you anymore. You're not listening to me, You're
Speaker 1: not doing it for me, and I'm giving you money
Speaker 1: every week, Like I'm not going to do that. So UM, definitely,
Speaker 1: don't give up on your your search. And I know
Speaker 1: that that's really hard when people are like keep getting
Speaker 1: help and it's like I'm exhausted. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: I said last last week, a lot of times I'm
Speaker 1: just exhausted from trying to heal myself, and so you
Speaker 1: have to take time out. I think, even if it's
Speaker 1: time out from doing therapy or time out from seeking treatment,
Speaker 1: it's just like I can't put myself through another thing
Speaker 1: one more time. I you know, so taking that time
Speaker 1: off and just kind of um letting your family know
Speaker 1: and your friends know, and again letting your therapist know.
Speaker 1: I let my therapist know, like I said last week,
Speaker 1: I do not want to do this, and she was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know um, and she respected that because I've put
Speaker 1: in so much work. So one other thing I wanted
Speaker 1: to say, if you when you were like, it's so
Speaker 1: much easier for us to help other people. One thing
Speaker 1: that has helped me in my healing is viewing myself
Speaker 1: as a third person. And it's wild how much easier
Speaker 1: that is to help myself. So with um, with my depression,
Speaker 1: when I was suicidal, it was like, what can we
Speaker 1: do to help Danny? This is our homework today. We
Speaker 1: need to find a therapist for Danny. We need to
Speaker 1: figure out we're not going to give up on her.
Speaker 1: I even think of myself sometimes as little Danny. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: little Danny, I imagine the little girl who was like
Speaker 1: bullied and having a hard time like in middle school,
Speaker 1: and it was like, well, she she had dreams, she
Speaker 1: had things that she wanted to do. Am I going
Speaker 1: to give up on her. No, I think that this
Speaker 1: little Danny who has survived so much deserves a great life.
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to give up on her. And
Speaker 1: then I don't think of future Danny, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: future Danny has so many things she's going to accomplish.
Speaker 1: Am I really going to cut her life short and
Speaker 1: not allow her to do that? No? But it was
Speaker 1: so much easier to see myself as a third person
Speaker 1: and helping this third person than like current Danny. It's wild. Wow.
Speaker 1: I think that's the perfect note to go out on. So, Danny,
Speaker 1: where can people find you? I'm at miss Danny Fernandez
Speaker 1: and all the things. UM, please be compassionate. I guess
Speaker 1: with if he and I, you know, we're trying to
Speaker 1: tackle these subjects. We will have UM licensed professionals on
Speaker 1: for some of these episodes, like we did last week
Speaker 1: and hopefully next week. But again, I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: speak from my experience. I'm not perfect. I'm very flawed.
Speaker 1: If I recommended something, you know, again, speak to a
Speaker 1: licensed professional. But I hope that this just opened your
Speaker 1: mind as far as what other people are doing to
Speaker 1: treat depression and PTSD. Yeah, I think that goes without
Speaker 1: saying for this and last week's and future episodes, if
Speaker 1: there are any like very technical questions that you have
Speaker 1: for some of the things we talked about in uh
Speaker 1: as it pertains to you specifically, that's going to be
Speaker 1: a conversation with a licensed professional. Uh. If you want
Speaker 1: to kind of relate on the shared experiences, then that's
Speaker 1: something we can talk about with your online But when
Speaker 1: it comes for like do you think for me or
Speaker 1: I'm experiencing this, yeah, we're gonna always have you. Uh.
Speaker 1: And and if you do ask us, we will say, Hey,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to talk to your therapist about that
Speaker 1: because we are not licensed professionals. Just want to say
Speaker 1: that this is just a conversation based on the data
Speaker 1: that's out there and Danny's personal experience. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: we we would we wish we could give you that info,
Speaker 1: but it would be irresponsible for us to even try so. Uh.
Speaker 1: Shout out to that. And as for me, if you
Speaker 1: walt away Twitter and Instagram, if he's on twitchet Superpunch
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday, I will see you. And like you
Speaker 1: always say on this pod, stay nerdy and stay healthy.