WEBVTT - Tesla Runs on Faith, Exxon on Discipline 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanabek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analysts in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.280 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. There's a lot of things 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.800 going on, and in particular we are seeing Tim a 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.360 lot of individuals institutions working with sectors and segments of 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.320 the US to encourage vaccine participation. And our next guest 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.400 definitely has some thoughts on that. Yeah. Red Buttle is 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.479 the founder of Public Private Strategies, also senior Fellow at 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.280 the Aspen Institute. Joining us on the phone from Washington, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.440 d C. Rehet Caroline, I talk a lot about how 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.560 well when when it comes to COVID, We talk a 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.279 lot about everything when it comes to code. But two 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.440 things that I've been been focused on as the US 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.360 vaccination effort has has done really well. One is how 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.160 do we get you know, I keep referring it to 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:04.800 it as like the last mile, right, how do we 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.400 get those people vaccinated who aren't being proactive about making appointments? 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:11.440 And then also what does it look like if we 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.120 do have to get that booster shot And this is 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:14.280 the type of thing that we have to do every 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.840 single year to prevent little outbreaks of of the pandemic. 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.039 So what is the right way for for companies to 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.480 approach this, like is this the flu shot? Like we 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.640 get at work now? Well, first of all, thank you 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:27.560 so much for having me, and you write employers of 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:29.600 all sizes have a role to play. You know, we've 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.440 specifically launched network focused on small businesses. And what we 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.600 know from research is that you know, as you're talking 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.320 about vaccine, hesitant populations, messengers or everything, and so really 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.720 you know, this is about meeting the consumer where it's at. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.679 In this case, it's about meeting each American where it's at. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.840 And we really think that employers and in particular small 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.160 businesses have a role as a trusted institution and really 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.920 encouraging people to get their COVID facting. Well, tell us 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.520 specifically about this initiatives initiative that you got out of 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.919 way right right, Excuse me to reimagine main Street initiative. 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.120 What is it about? What are you looking to do 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.800 and what is it that's holding small businesses, particularly those 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.400 maybe of color of you know, minority small businesses that 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.400 maybe are preventing workers from getting the vaccine. Is it 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.840 that they don't want to or that it's just difficult 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.959 for them to get the time to do it. Absolutely, 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.040 So we launched this initiative about a year ago when 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.360 COVID nineteen broke out to really make sure that small 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.200 business owners and in particular business owners of color, were 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.040 at the center of our recovery. And so we've been 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.600 working on research and ultimaker advocacy, and now we've added 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.440 a new leg to this campaign, which is really using 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.640 small employers as a vehicle to get information out because 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.320 small business owners are some of the most trusted institutions 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.560 in our country. They rank number two according to Gallop 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.480 and quite frankly, the people who work for them trust them. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.519 And as you talked about, you know, particularly in communities 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.239 of color, a lot of folks are unsure about the vaccine. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.000 Some of that is because of deep racism in our country, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.120 and rightfully so, what we know just how important this 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.920 vaccine is to not only our public health but getting 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.040 our economy open again. And it's not uncommon. Right to 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.280 see employers, We've seen employers do unique stuff around the 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.880 food vaccine um in this case, you know, for this 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.440 first time effort, it's really important because these main street 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.639 businesses engaged in these communities, their workers turn to them, 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.680 their communities, uh look and see you know what what 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:22.960 small business owners have to say about issues, and so 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.280 we think they have the search and so in addition 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.960 to providing education tools and resources, we've launched out Vaccine 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.160 Leaders Pledge program for business owners to sign up, and 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:35.600 we've curtailed information and resources to small business owners who 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.080 want to talk to their employees and their communities about 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.119 why this is important to not only getting public health BacT, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.760 but quite frankly to getting our economy will reopen. I 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.080 think it's one thing for for people to trust their 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.360 employer and understand that the vaccine is the right thing 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.880 to do, but it's an entirely different thing to get 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.360 on their phone schedule that appointment at a time that 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.080 they're not at work, and then also schedule that that 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.120 follow up appointment as well. So how do you make 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.720 it as easy as possible for somebody who hasn't able 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.600 to get a vaccine yet to do it? Well, I 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.880 think that's where we see you know, this is this 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.240 role of the employer coming in and so we've seen 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.360 it employers doing really neat things. There's an amazing hair 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.200 salon and Ohio is working to actually what could their 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.880 customers for vaccine apointments when they come into this blond 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.359 That's one example of an above and beyond effort. But 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.880 as an employer, it's also really important to be able 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.200 to create that space for your employees to get educated, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.320 but also letting them know that maybe you're going to 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:31.120 give them paid time off when they're going to get 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:32.880 their vaccine and give them paid time off to re 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.520 cover so they don't feel the pressure of necessarily having 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.760 to this work and the burden that comes with that 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.320 as an exper incentive to make sure that they get vaccinated. Hey, Red, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:42.960 how big of a problem do you think it is 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.240 among this small business community in terms of their workers 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.040 or their business owners not going out and getting the 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.960 vaccine specifically, or is it more that you're just thinking 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.799 about the communities around them. I think it's two reasons. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.200 You know, One is because of this trusted status that 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.800 I'm talking about. You know, we're living in an interesting 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.520 time where a lot of people don't don't necessarily trust media, 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.520 they don't trust the government, but they do trust their employers. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.200 In particular, they trust small business, So we think they're important. 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.160 But also half of Americans work for small business owners, 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.240 and actually about a hundred million Americans financial lives in 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.640 some cases depend on a small business. So they are 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.400 a really important channel for getting information out and touching 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.520 touching individuals. And so that's really why we've chosen this 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.240 channel in particular as a way to get information out. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.240 How do you think about areas outside of the US. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:30.880 That was the other thing that Caroline I talked about 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:35.560 all the time is how this the pandemic is is. Look, 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.280 we didn't we have not done a great job in 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.480 the United States overall, but when it comes to vaccinations, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.240 we are certainly leading the world right now. But it's 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.360 not the same story in the vast majority of the world. Yeah, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.000 before I worked outside government, I actually had the publice 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.000 of serving at the Department of Helping Human Services, and 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.560 I did a lot of work on E Bowla And 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.520 you know, early on, one of the reasons we responded 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.080 so quickly to the E Bowla prominent applicised because we 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.360 knew that our world is in our connected it right, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.680 and that is so important for especially business today. And so, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.440 you know, this is a global issue and you know 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.320 why we're making great progress here in the United States. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.040 I'm encouraged by the Biden Administration's efforts to rejoin KOVAC, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.080 to rejoin the World Health Organization because this is really 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.120 a global problem and it doesn't stop. You know, a 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.920 virus like this, uh sees no boarders, no boundaries, right, 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.200 and so we really have to think about a global approach. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.200 And so right now we're focused on you know, getting 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.839 everyone vaccinated at home, and then at the same time, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.400 because we can walk and you know, to publicum, at 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.920 the same time, we're working on building our credibility back 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.640 across the world. Helped virus as well. Well. Listen, it's 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.200 a reminder of small businesses. They play a crucial role 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.719 in communities. That's where conversations happen and you do think about, 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.360 especially something like the vaccine getting a message out, how 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.240 productive that can be those small business owners, in particular 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:53.440 Red Bottle, Thank you so much. Founder of Public Private Strategies. 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.599 It's a consulting firm. He's also senior fellow at the 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.520 Aspen Institute. Re Joining us on the phone from Washington, 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.400 d C. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.800 from Bloomberg Radio. Writing for Bloomberg Business Week this week 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.760 Bloomberg opinion columnist Liam Denning, who takes a look at 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.400 the future of energy from really tim management perspective. It's 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.480 a great business school case study. It's looking at Elon 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.640 Musk of course, the see of Tesla and Darren Woods, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:20.880 his counterpart at ex On Mobile and safe to say, 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:22.280 I gotta tell you, I had to actually look up 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.920 the name of ex On Mobile CEO because I didn't 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.840 remember that that's who was He should be tweeting more 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.520 about dog coin maybe or maybe not, or just worrying 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.280 about the future of energy anyway. This story is the 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.360 remarks for the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week. And 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.040 joining us with more Bloomberg Business Week gator Joe Weber 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.800 on the access Line in Brooklyn and Bloomberg Opinion Energy, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.480 Mining and commodities columnist Liam Denning. He's on the phone 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.560 in New York, Joe. Let's start with you. Though. I 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.000 love this. It really is a case study of two 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.240 very different CEOs. Yeah, and I had the same reaction 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.200 when I was reading it, like Darren who and um, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:57.840 for the most part, investors have kind of felt the 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.320 same way. I think. But but I think, um, you know, 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:01.840 one of the reasons that we are really into this 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.520 is like, look like earning earning season upon us and 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:09.160 Tesla versus x On. Can you like imagine two different 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:13.360 corporate stories or leadership styles. And what I thought, Um, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.520 Liam did a really good job of hitting on was like, 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.240 you know, for the most part, one is just really 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.480 ran on faith and obviously that's more Tesla, while Exxon 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.400 has been known for this real dogged nous on on numbers, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.160 and yet one is having a completely different version of 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.280 reality than the other over the past long haul and 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:33.320 and this year to date, which I'm sure we'll talk about, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.400 has been a little bit different. But but Lea, how 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.840 did you ultimately settle on putting these two leaders in 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.120 the spotlight as sort of opposite forces, if you will. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.480 I think it's just because we're a really interesting moment 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.240 for both of them. So you remember last year UM 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.600 xn's market cap shut up like a fact or seven 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:02.240 went way past x UM and you know, as you 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.719 may recall, there are a flurry of stories about that 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.080 and how it symbolized the transition from you know, the 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.000 oil age to the electric age and that sort of thing. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.880 But I think it's it's interesting because the way I 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.200 think about it is, you know, if you go back 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.440 a few years, Exon was the most valuable company in 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.480 the world. It could kind of do no wrong UM 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.920 and investors had this kind of rock solid belief in it. 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.000 And here we are, you know, just a few short 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:34.800 years later in early UM. Exon is you know, it's 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.880 been through some traveling times, it's run pretty much the 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.720 same as it always has been, but it's lost that 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.800 kind of belief from investors, where Tesla, you know, despite 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:49.280 everything it does that you think would shake belief, UM 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.319 just has this kind of fanatical devotion on the part 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.320 of investors. So I just always an interesting way of 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.679 looking at these two companies opposite ends of the energy business. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.800 It's really interesting and I thought, man, this would be 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:01.240 grea to like just sit down with a bunch of 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.240 people like we are doing now and just talk about 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.920 it like you do. Wonder because both liam are optimistic 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.440 long term and how can that be possible? Can it 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.800 be possible that they both have at least in the 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.520 somewhat longer term, you know, optimistic futures or is that impossible? 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.520 I think it's impossible. You know, there is one viewpoint 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.439 that says, well, look, the energy transition will take time, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.200 and these both of these companies can certainly make money 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.360 for some period. But I think when you look at 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.880 their core belief systems, they're just very different. I mean, 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.439 you know, Bloomberg an e f Our own in house forecasters. 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.520 You know, they're pretty bullish on electric vehicles, but even 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.000 they see it as taking a little while, um, maybe 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.680 into the middle of the thirties to see like serious 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.520 market penetration. Elon must sees it happening much quicker than that. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.160 You look at Excel mogul Um, they're more in the 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.160 it will take time, camp we can develop new businesses 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.800 that sort of thing. I just think that the the 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.720 the sheer aggressiveness of each view makes them incompatible. You know, 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.439 one of one of these is going to work out 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.680 to be true, but not both. It does seem like 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.280 the money right now is on Tesla, though it's it's 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.440 hard to imagine a world where fossil fuels in a 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:21.679 company that really is focused on fossil fuels ends up 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.280 being the one that survives, right. I think longer term, 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.400 for you know, fossil fuels are going to peak and 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.360 decline absolutely. Um. I think it's a question of degree. 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.320 You know, um Exon has suffered mainly because it made 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.440 some really bad tactical errors. Um you know, stretching all 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.319 the way back to about a decade ago when it 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.120 brought this very expensive gas business where it ended up 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:50.960 writing off quite a lot of it at the end 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:55.080 of last year, and there have been other mistakes I 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.040 think where it gets a little unbelievable, as if you 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.679 look at Tesla. I mean, clearly there is a lot 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.319 of money flowing into clean tech right now and there 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.360 is a bright future for that business. But you know, 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.160 you look at Tesla, It's made about billion dollars of 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.000 profit over the last six quarters. It's valued at like 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.079 seven billion dollars. Um has the market got a bit 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:22.760 ahead of itself on Tesla. I would say, yes, well 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.120 that kind of speaks to you know, how Excen specifically 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.640 has performed this year year today, uh Liam and and 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.679 that number actually really jumped out to me. Um So 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.920 talk about like why why an x and might be 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.520 able to continue to performing in the shorter term while 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.920 while as in the long run we can might still 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.040 the market might be right to be bullish on Tesla. Yeah, 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.000 I think in the short term what Excen is doing, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.160 it's a couple of things. One is that it's just 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.840 at the oil price has recovered a bit from the 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.200 from the COVID pandemic, so that's kind of lifted all 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.160 oil companies. I think the other thing is excellent has 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.320 you know, it's excell was kind of aloof for the 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.280 longest time. I mean, I think I mentioned in the 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.319 piece that Darren Wood's made made headlines just for showing 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:12.320 up on an earning cool uh And and they've actually 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.680 had to listen, you know, they actually had activists show 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.080 up and had to engage with them. And so they have, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.720 They've adjusted their stance, They've they've reigned in spending, they've 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.920 started acknowledging that there is actually an energy transition and 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:29.200 there there potentially going to start businesses. But look at that. 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.800 So they're they're coming back, partly because the all price 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.480 is coming back, but partly because they seem to have 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:41.200 acknowledged their past mistakes with Tesla. There is there is, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.960 there is a core story of the energy transition, and 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.480 that's that's right, of course, but it's also a function 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.520 of the fact that we are we are in a 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.400 moment in markets where that kind of long term vision 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.959 thing is meeting you know, very low interest rates and 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.000 you do get some fantastic valuations. Well, we're definitely at 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.120 a point where there is this option this industry. There's 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.199 still a lot of cars on the road that are 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.679 you know, gas guzzlers. And at the same time, we 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.240 had the Tesla story over the weekend, you know, with 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.920 the car crash killing to no one appeared to be 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.120 appeared to be driving, And it's just a reminder that 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.840 it's not also an easy or just path forward without 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.400 some speed bumps along the way, certainly for something like Tesla. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:28.000 Joe Weber at Liam Denning, thank you so much. This 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.120 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg quick 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:36.600 takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Well, the developed world 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.320 taking care of the developing world when it comes to 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.680 COVID and vaccine distribution. That's something that just last month 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.600 we talked about with Nobelle Lloyd and Columbia University professor 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.280 Joseph Stiglet's check it out. The developing countries, particularly in 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:55.960 emerging markets, are not on tracked to have the kind 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.720 of UH light at the end of the tunnel that 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.680 we're beginning to see in the United States. We're getting vaccinated, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.480 and there are many many countries, as we document around 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.080 the world that have not had a single vaccine. They 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.240 just can't get access. It's a gap in terms of 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.600 getting to that vaccine. We're certainly seeing that play out 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.640 around the world. Writing about vaccine inequality and his weekly column, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.120 Bloomberg New Economy editorial director Andy Brown, Andy with us 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.760 on the phone in New York City at our bureau 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.680 here in New York City. I should say so Andy 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.440 COmON in on this. This was something Joseph Stieglitz and 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.960 about Laurie, very passionate about a lot of other people, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.920 and you just put it so eloquently in your weekly 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.640 column um tell us about this. Yeah, well, the world 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.680 the head of the World Health Organization described this vaccine 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:48.400 inequity as a catastrophic moral failure, and not just that 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.760 it makes absolutely no economic sense at all. Um. The 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.080 International Chamber of columns to the study which showed that, um, 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.040 that that vaccine national and basically rich countries hogging all 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.520 the vaccines is going to cost the global economy something 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.080 like nine point two trillion dollars, of which half the 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.040 is going to be borne by by rich country. They 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:15.840 lose because you know, they emerging markets that are grappling 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.280 with the virus on buying their advanced manufactually products like 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.880 planes and cars, but also they can't supply manufacturing parts. 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.920 And the crazy thing here is that funding these multilateral 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:33.000 efforts to vaccinate emerging economies is going to cost a 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.000 couple of billion bucks, right, so you know, overall in 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.480 the big picture, a drop in the bucket. Hey, Andy, 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.160 I'm talk a little bit about what what this bill 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.560 gates quote that you included quote, the the self interested 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.320 thing and the altruistic thing making sure core nations of 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.720 access to vaccines are one and the same. Why do 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:55.200 we have so much trouble seeing that it's it's it's 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.480 a really good question, you know. I mean, of course, 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:02.480 governments everywhere have an obligation to look after their own people. Um, 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.200 but you know, you've got you We've got to the 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:08.800 situation now where in the US and large parts of Europe, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.160 we're well on our way now to hurt immunity, which 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.399 is generally calculated as around about seventy percent of the 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.640 population with some kind of of immunity at best. At 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.880 the end of this year, we're looking at no more 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.840 than emerging economies having inoculated no more than about twenty 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.159 one quarter of their population. And as Joe Stiglets you 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.280 just heard him say, you know, there's a whole bunch 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.680 of poor countries U a couple of dozen of them 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.800 where they haven't even gotten started, you know, and I 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.879 mean you you think of about this. There's there's a 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.040 stockpile right now in the US of twenty millions of 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.359 doses of astra zeneca. Apparently it's not even going to 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.640 factor into Joe Biden's or the Biden Administration's vaccine roll out. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.639 You know, twenty million vaccines could could could vaccinate the 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.720 whole of Cameroon, you know, or angle. I mean, it 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.600 just it which seemed to me to be such an 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.359 easy win for advancing, particularly the United States right now, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.719 to just lead a global campaign to inoculate the world. 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:11.639 I mean, of course it would be the morally the 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.560 right thing to do. Um And you know, as they say, 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.800 I mean, it's just a no brain from from an 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.720 economic perspective. Well, you know, and in reading your column, Andy, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.800 the thing is right if you don't have a moral 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.400 compass and you don't realize that it's the right thing 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.720 to do to take care of the developing world, you know, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.120 just from an economic sense. And you mentioned this stat 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.200 at the top of our segment here that you say 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.320 that the Chamber of Commerce, the International Chamber of Congress, 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.480 concluding an unequal allocation of injections vaccine injections could deprive 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.600 the world economy of as much as nine point two 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.000 trillion dollars. So even if you don't think it's the 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.359 right thing to do, you've got to at some point 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:51.760 logically understand that there is a huge economic cost, continued 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.720 cost if we don't get this right. Yeah, and then 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.479 the other tragedy is, you know, with this this scare 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.920 of a blood blood clock arising from Astras Naca R 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.320 Now J and J. You know, in America, it's basically 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.760 a bit of a speed bump, right, I mean, J 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.440 and J is about five percent, I think of all 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:12.960 the vaccines that are being sort of pushed into arms 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.960 around the country. But this, this, this is in Africa. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.240 The news that that J and J was being suspended 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.359 in the US was absolutely devastating. I mean, you know, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.000 there's already a huge amount of vaccine hesitancy in Africa 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.919 for all kinds of complicated reasons. You know, partly because 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.560 a lot of people in Africa don't believe the Western 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.840 pharmaceutical companies have their own best interests in hot at 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.800 hot and you know, in country after country you're seeing 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.399 that this news is now sort of health authority is 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.320 a persuading population's got to get vaccinated. And this is 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.720 just set these efforts all the way back to the 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.080 square one. So, Andy, how do you envision this ending. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.600 Do we get to a point where the entire world 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.240 gets inoculated and in a reasonable time frame, or or 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.919 do we have pocket of areas of the of the world, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.200 like the United States that are somewhat vaccinated, even those 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:07.760 you point out we live in a world with chorus 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.000 borders and that kind of doesn't really matter. Well, I 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.280 hope not, because, um, you know, the old cliche, until 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.040 everybody is safe, nobody is safe. And and the you know, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.800 there's a very realistic scenario where they do emerging economies 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.640 don't get back to the eightage, you're going to start 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.240 to get of course, that gives that office an opportunity 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:34.399 for variants to take hold, um, to overwhelm the existing vaccines. Um, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.160 you know, and then you see that, you see, you'll 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.920 see the pandemic roaring back, and of course then we'll 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:41.720 be back again in another economic crisis. I mean, hence 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.080