WEBVTT - Anthology of Horror, Volume 2 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:14.200 I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome to Stuff 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.480 to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Gooley Lamb. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.919 I am Corrosive Joseph McCormick, and we are here with 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.520 our producer death Nicholas Johnson. Yes, and it is that 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.560 time again. Uh it's it's been a year since we 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.560 did Anthology of Horror volume one, and so we're about 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.480 to uh assault you with Anthology of Horror volume two, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.239 and then guess what the episode after this is going 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.839 to be Anthology of Horror volume three. It's not an 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.960 anthology unless they're at least three volumes exactly. So yeah, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.360 I've been looking forward to this all year pretty much, Robert. 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:51.879 I know the back corners of your brain are just 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:56.720 full of cobwebs made of old horror anthology TV episodes. 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.960 Every time we get talking about this, you dredge something 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.160 up from the void, something you saw on TV as 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.800 a kid. Am I wrong about this pretty much? Because 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:07.280 when I was a kid, I watched a lot of 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:11.200 television and of the various joyfully weird things that were 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:16.800 on television reruns or syndicated horror anthology shows. Were one 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:18.679 of the best because you never knew exactly what you 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:20.920 were going to get each episode. It's an anthology. So 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.520 each episode of something like The Twilight Zone or Night 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.240 Gallery or Outer Limits or Tales from the Crypt, each 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.920 one is its own thing, its own world. It has 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.800 its own cast, its own monster or threat or sci 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:40.080 fi weirdness, and it's completely encapsulated. I love especially some 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.840 of these are really good. Actually, the Twilight Zone I 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.320 think is even better than a lot of people remember, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.680 and I think a lot of times it's because The 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.280 Twilight Zone was not an hour long show, or I 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.400 think maybe it was in one of its later seasons 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.080 which turned out to be disastrous. I mean, you know, 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.240 this is a type twentysomething minute short story. It's it's 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.200 a good way not to get bogged down and stuff 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.680 that doesn't matter with when you're not going into like 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:09.320 in depth character storytelling, but you're like exploring high level premises. Yeah, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.280 you know, it's it's more it's more in line with 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.560 certainly some of the short stories you you know, the 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.200 classic short stories you think of to say, like a 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.840 Philip K. Dick, where it's it's really about rolling out 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.000 a cool idea, maybe a cool twist or a shock, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.560 but mostly about you know, to make you think about something. 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.400 And uh, yeah, so I I love a really great 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.880 episode of an anthology show. Certainly, like you said, some 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.480 of those Twilight zones hold up amazingly. Well, we're gonna 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.720 be talking about one of my favorites of all time today. Yeah, 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.120 but then also some of the worst examples. I love 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:41.840 one show, and this is a show I didn't I 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:43.600 don't think I even watched when it came on, but 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:48.280 Perversions of Science, it was sci fi sort of spinoff 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.640 of Tales from the Crypt And uh, I haven't watched 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.160 Polly Sleazy, but very like Future Smooth. Yeah yeah, lots 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.960 of cursing, some gratuitous nudity, but like a lot of 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.720 these shows off tremendous talent packed into each episode, like 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:08.440 some great actors, some great directors. Um So every horror 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.760 anthology show, I feel like the ones that i've I 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.639 look back on finally are the ones I haven't even 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.640 seen yet. Uh, there's so many treasures to uncover. I 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.400 watched so many of these things. It's very specifically on 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.160 Beach Hotel cable. This is what I remember. Yeah, it 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.200 was like I watched Mystery Science Theater three thousand that way. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.320 I mean, I guess basically when my family went to 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:29.960 the beach, everybody else would be out in the sun 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.720 and I'd be watching the Sci Fi Channel. But that's 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.560 how you see reruns of Monsters, which is a show 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.520 that I had completely forgotten about until you, uh, you 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.120 sent me something about it the other day and I 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.480 was looking at the images from the opening credits and 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.400 I was like, oh my god, Yes, that's way back 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.760 in there, somewhere deep in the recesses of my mind. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.760 This is there. I've seen it before. All right, Well, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.840 before we get more properly into into Monsters, I just 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.760 wanna tell everybody, like what the basic format here is. 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:03.880 If you haven't heard one of our anthorogy of horror 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.120 episodes before, or the creepy Pasta episodes that preceded it, 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.880 the idea is, uh, we're gonna grab a few in 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.960 in each episode, We're gonna each grab one episode of 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.600 a horror anthology show. We're gonna tell you what it's about, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.599 remind you what it's about if you've seen it before, 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.800 and then we're gonna break down some of the ideas involved. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.600 There you know some of the science of the thing, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.440 whatever it happens to to be, even if we have 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.280 to shoehorn it a little bit. And uh, and that's 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.479 where the fun is exactly. We are nothing if not 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:38.040 experts at dragging deep thoughts out of strangely shallow places. Yes, uh, 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.000 though again we're gonna also go to some I think, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.800 some rather deep waters in these Twilight zonela. So let's 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.520 begin with Monsters. Okay. This this ran for three seasons 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.279 from through nine, and I think I only caught it 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:55.160 once at like my aunt's house back in the day, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:56.919 and I don't even know if it was in syndication 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.440 or on the Sci Fi channel after it had finished 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.440 its run. But today you can find all of it 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.279 on Amazon Prime. You can find a lot of the episodes, 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.320 maybe all of them just on YouTube. But yeah, it's 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.000 like a lot of these shows, it's a wealth of 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.320 talent and weirdness. I was wondering how many people were 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.440 hoping that this show would have disappeared into history forever, 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.359 only to have the digital age to revive all of 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:25.320 these old things that these actors did. Yeah, yeah, possible. Possibly, Yeah, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.080 Because there you see some some interesting people show up 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.960 in Monsters for instance. Uh, you know you have you 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.000 have some great authors like Dan Simmons shows up tom 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.440 Noonan shows up writing and directing like a couple of episodes, 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.640 Tony Shalhub shows up, Gina Gershawn, Steve you Simmy in 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:47.960 an excellent pig monster related episode that I won't spoil 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.960 for anybody. Oh man, we were just talking about pig monsters. Yeah, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.560 and this is a great pig monster episode. I gotta 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.800 dive in. But yeah, this show is kind of a 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.640 spiritual successor to Tails from the Dark Side, which one 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:01.479 eighty eight I did see a lot of and was 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.560 traumatized times by as a child. Uh. And the The 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.240 Monsters featured many of the same people and again an 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.160 incredible opening sequence, like a lot of these anthologies shows had, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.320 in which a humorous family of monsters settled in to 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.080 watch TV together. I believe, right before they start watching 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.919 their show, the mother monster shows up with a dish 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.680 full of something she's been cooking, and the child monster declares, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:30.839 candied critters, Yeah, it's it's cheesy, it's great. Uh and 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.520 then it and then you proceed into some new story 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.520 that's going to center around a monster. And usually that's 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.720 like really cool practical effects too. So these episodes it 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.680 can be a little hokey intentionally. So at times the 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.960 music is a little weird, this kind of sense music 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.080 that I even have trouble loving. Uh, at times like 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.240 synthetic saxophone music. You've got a very open heart for. 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.640 Since Yeah, but great cast, cool monster And Uh, the 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.280 episode I'm going to talk about today is one title 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.280 far Below, And the reason I was so excited I 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.640 didn't even know they had covered this. But Far Below 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:11.320 is one of my favorite short stories by Robert Barbour Johnson, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.160 who lived nineteen o seven through seven. Uh, this is 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.720 what like a Weird Tales era story that I read 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.120 years and years ago, and I've just I've lived my 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.640 entire life up until like this week, having no idea 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.600 that anybody had ever adapted it. So so I was 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.960 instantly excited and I and I said, all right, I've 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.720 got to cover this. So it takes place in the 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.840 deepest depths of the New York subway system, one of 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.680 my favorite places anyway, And uh, you have a you 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.240 have a special segment of city services that wage an 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.880 endless campaign against the ghouls that burrow up from the depths. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.800 It's a it's a haunting tale. The positions them as 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.160 workers in a dark, in human place against an inhuman enemy, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:52.320 and they all are on the risk of losing their 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.640 own humanity in the process. So this season two adaptation 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.120 of Far Below has a lot going for it. So 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.320 not only do you have Johnson's short story as the 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.080 you know, the the inspiration for it. He was adapted 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.600 for the screen by Michael McDowell, the screenwriter who gave 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.560 his Beetlejuice The Nightmare Before Christmas and, perhaps to a 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.640 lesser extent, Thinner Two out of three ain't bad. Yeah. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.800 Plus it's directed by the legendary producer Deborah Hill, whoa 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.920 Deborah Hill of like John Carpenter movie fame, Yeah Yeah. 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.240 Longtime collaborator and producer of John Carpenter's films such as Halloween, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.160 Halloween to the Fog, Halloween three, Season of The Witch, Yes, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.120 Escape from New York, Escape from l A. She also 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.640 produced Clue, The Dead Zone, The Fisher King, and Big 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.040 Top Peeweek. So, but this was one of the only 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.240 two things she ever directed, So I was instantly you know, intrigued. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.800 And then the cast is small but pretty fun in 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.760 that veteran actor Barry Nelson places his character Dr Vernon 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:56.719 Rathmore Barry Nelson, was he in Planet of the Vampires? Oh, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.680 he might have been. Maybe you can do a quick 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.079 look upon that. Well, I cover some of other things 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:03.920 he was in. Uh, you know, he's one of these 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.760 character actors that was in everything. A lot of TV 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.160 work back in the day, a few classic horror anthology 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.960 shows as well, like Twilight Zone Suspense and The Alfred 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.559 Hitchcock Hour. But I think most people will probably remember 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.720 him from Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, in which he played 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.040 Ullman opposite Jack Nicholson in the job interview scene. That's 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.160 correct that I was also mistaken Planet of the Vampire, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.480 says Barry Sullivan. Okay, different bar There were lots like 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.120 there are a lot of Berriers back in the day. 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:36.199 Um So the adaptation itself is pretty fun. It introduces 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.040 a new twist, and they opted to present the Ghoules 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.040 which are not really referred to as such if I 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.960 remember correctly. Uh, they present them much more like the 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.360 more Locks from the nineteen sixty adaptation of HD Wells 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.920 The Time Machine, which I think is a fine choice. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.080 You know, you need some sort of subterranean humanoid but 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.439 in human creature. If you're not gonna go for like 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.760 what I imagine is the straight up Google, or perhaps 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.040 sort of the dog like uh, Crafty and Google, then 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.760 I think a morelock is a solid choice. Now, I 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.760 want to know more about the the ghouls in the 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.040 story in the in the segment, are I mean, are 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.600 they sort of the grave flesh eating scavengers we we 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.520 know of as schools? Um, not so much. I mean, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:21.199 there's clearly an inspiration from um Pigman's model the Lovecraft story, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.600 in which ghouls are bubbling out from the like the underworld, 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.360 um and uh and potentially corrupting mortal minds. Like, clearly 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:30.719 that was part of the inspiration. That's part of the 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.600 world from which the story emerges. But in in the 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.960 story itself and in the adaptation, it's more like these 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.240 are creatures that are wandering up from the depths like 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.760 we've It's kind of a tolken Esque idea of if 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.160 we've dug too far into the earth and now these 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.120 things are coming up and we have to stop them 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.320 because they're going to continue to pick off subway workers 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.160 and uh, you know, vagrants and then eventually other people, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.080 and if we don't keep them in check, they will 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.800 just overwhelm us. This is funny. I was just reading 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.600 The Two Towers in the chapter where Gandalf explains what 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.080 happens after, you know, after he plunged down after the 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.320 bal Raggie says, they went into the depths of the earth, 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.400 far below where any you know, the thing that lives 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.199 above it is the abode of slimy things and things 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.280 that cannot be named. Yes, and and indeed these are 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.559 these are some of those nameless things. So on the 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.000 subject of ghouls, we of course have an entire episode 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.200 in the Vault about the idea of ghoules. We've talked 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.800 at length as well about life underground and the effects 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.160 of human life underground, and so I don't want to 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.120 retread on much of that content. It's it's definitely there, 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.880 and we love it. And if you want more subterranean 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.160 humans and googles, go check those episodes out. But I 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.720 did find a line of inquiry on this that I 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:46.120 think is pretty solid. So we have an underground war 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:50.920 in a great modern metropolis against inhuman enemy that rises 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.160 from the depths, and yet these more lockesque creatures are 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.800 drawn up to feed on humans, the humans that have 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:00.800 overpopulated this region. They seem to feed stone, vagrant and 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.480 subway workers, and would feast on far more of the 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.000 populace if not for the efforts of Dr Rathmore and 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.880 his you know, basically, the premises auditors have come to 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.400 check him out because his department is seems to be 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:18.120 way overfunded, way over armed, and the outsiders asking why 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:19.480 do you need all these weapons, why do you need 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.120 all this funding? And and then the story is about 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.280 presenting exactly why this funding is needed. But basically, in 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.600 this fight, uh, the fictional characters are far below have 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.440 much in common with those who battle various organisms that 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.760 we label pests in the real world. And the most 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.439 obvious parallel is the rat, the true citizen of the 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.200 subway tunnels exactly. I mean, when you go down there 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.040 to take a train, they're not in your way or 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.640 you know, getting into your stuff. You're in their world. 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.600 You're just a guest. Yeah. Now, to be sure, a 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.000 single rat can be a problem even in a you know, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.400 a sort of a prehistoric, precity sense of human existence. 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.439 And the same can be said of say, mosquitoes, Uh, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.440 you know, they both can spread or help spread pathogens. Uh. 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:06.200 The same can be said of something like the locust. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.319 But but all these examples of our organisms as well, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.800 they can become an even greater problem when they are 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:17.040 imbalanced by human activity. So let's let's think about the rat. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.720 As biologists Ken Appland put it quoted in the Case 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.280 for Leaving City Rats Alone by Becca Cudmore for Nautilus, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:30.560 rats are disruption specialists, so they thrive in disrupted ecosystems. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.480 They spill into unbalanced realms and carve out a kingdom 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.640 for themselves. And he points out that the very few 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.680 wild animals have done this quite as well as the 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.880 rats in the human world without undergoing domestication. That's an 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.160 interesting point. Yeah, So we we think about organisms that 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.640 can successfully thrive at the edges of human civilization. You've 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.319 you've got two main versions. You've got those that become 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.640 tame and and eventually get bred by humans, like dogs 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.680 or our animals or even cats, which are a little 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.319 bit wilder versions wilder are but still definitely domesticated. Yeah. 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.800 Then you've got the ones that are just sort of 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.760 destroyed by our presence, which are i'd say maybe the 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.240 majority of animals, and like when we change an ecosystem, 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.760 they suffer. And then yeah, you've got this third category, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.480 the ones we think of as unwelcome survivors in our environments. Yeah, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.880 because you've disrupted everything. But this is an organism that 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.720 thrives on disruption. It can go right in there and 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.200 find a place for itself. You know, all arerat needs 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.040 is a is a is a place to borrow fifty 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.480 grams of calorie rich or moderately calorie rich food per 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.960 day and some water to drink um. And they they're 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.440 going to find that they're going to find an abundance 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.400 of that in our environments. I mean, in our garbage, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.800 in our in our you know, in our refuse, in 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.080 in the in the the leavings of our civilization, and 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.000 for all of our domesticated minions, for all of our 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:00.840 traps and our poisons. Rats still rule cities New York City. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.000 In previous episodes, I think we've even talked about rat 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.440 societies in New York City. Yeah, there are sort of 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.560 separate subcultures of rats within the cities that that they occupy. Yes, 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.040 and that's gonna that's indeed gonna become very important to 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.760 here in just a minute. Okay, the rat was already 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.040 perfectly evolved to do all of this. Uh, they were 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.680 stealing from other organisms before us. Most likely, we just 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.200 continue to offer more and more to steal, creating waste, 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.160 disruption and hiding places everywhere we go. And of course 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:37.040 we went absolutely everywhere, bringing rats in our wake. Becca 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.880 Cudmore's article, however, deals mostly with the Vancouver Rat Project, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.440 which points out that some experts identify the potential dangers 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.360 posed by fighting back against the rat occupation too hard. 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.000 And part of it comes down to this, to the 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:58.640 disruption of the stable rat colonies. Uh, these these stable areas, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:02.680 these little little pocket civilizations that the rats have established 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.480 in these disrupted ecosystems. These are some of the key 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.480 points that have been made. First of all, drive rats 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.120 out of one home or block and into another home 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.040 or block, and you might be spreading rat pathogens that 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:20.760 would otherwise be quarantined within this stable group. Plus, urban 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.760 rats have a garbage based diet, meaning that they absorb 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.960 a lot of bacteria, and this is often place specific bacteria. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.320 It's tied to the building, to the people that live 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.320 in that particular building. Drive them out and you spread 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:38.680 these particular bacteria elsewhere. You're stirring the pot right, and 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.800 then rats in one area will wage bloody war against 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.880 any stranger rat that arrives. This applies to New York 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.160 City as well, where I've read and I think we've 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.920 talked about this before about how a native rat population 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.560 tends to do a decent job of fighting off rat 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.880 invasions that come in on ships, etcetera. Um, so it's 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.200 a perpetual turf war. But these turf wars, especially when 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.480 you stir them up up by fighting back against the 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.920 rats too hard, potentially, Uh, those turf war wars spill 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.919 rat blood. They cause rats to urinate out of fear, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.920 and so what we get is a mix of rat 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.480 blood and rat urine and rat gut contents, a real 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:20.160 witches brew. In fact, Kaylee Buyers of the Vancouver Rat 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.120 Project points out that these brawls allow bacteria to converge, 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.040 to mix and potentially create new diseases. Bacteria that wouldn't 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:32.520 otherwise interact with each other are pooled together swap genes 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:37.879 inform new diseases such as UH, methocillin resistant STAFF or 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.440 m r S. A. Oh wow, I didn't even think 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:42.720 about that as a consequence of another thing we've talked 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.680 about before, of course, horizontal gene transfer between single celled 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.280 organisms like bacteria. You know, if one acquires a useful 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.520 adaptation and say resisting a certain antibiotic, they can share 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.440 that gene for that adaptation via a sort of analogy 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.240 of bacterial sex. It's not sexual reproduction, but they can 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.320 take part of their genome and just put it in 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.720 another bacterium. Yeah. Yeah, So we have a situation where 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.000 we disrupted the environment. Organism that thrives and disruption has 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:14.439 moved in, and then if we attempt to remove that organism, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.480 we bring more disruption into the scenario. We bring more 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:22.200 more chaos. Uh So the idea of of fixing these 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:27.000 probably becomes more of a hard problem of dealing with 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.400 these rat infestations. Uh So. Anyway, not not to say 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.520 that we shouldn't fight against rats and keep them from 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.560 living too high on the hog, but we got here 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.920 through disruption, so we shouldn't be surprised if there are 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.600 consequences for disrupting it further totally. And if you're going 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.880 to fight a secret war against the ghouls, well then 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.560 perhaps it's worth fighting. Uh, you know, at a perpetual stalemate, 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.960 right White turn a cold war into a hot war exactly. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.399 All right. 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They gave us a code 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.439 for some free socks to try out, and you know what, 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.400 I gotta say, they are mighty comfy. I've been enjoying 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.359 them all week. Yeah. And plus the philanthropic mission here 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.840 is pretty cool too. Yeah. So save on your first 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.320 purchase when you shop at Bombas dot com slash mind blown. 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:24.760 That's Bombas dot com slash mind blown to save Bombas 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:30.280 dot com slash mind blown. All right, we're back to 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.000 city rats, the ghouls of the real world. Yeah, and 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.760 comparing it to that episode of Monsters far Below based 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:42.320 on a beloved Google short story. Uh so, here's another 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.720 thing to think about here. Uh. We've talked about how 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.560 rats spread with human civilization and they are such a 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.919 highly successful organism, and yet there are a few areas 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.240 of the world that have remained essentially rat free, the 0:20:55.280 --> 0:21:00.440 most notable of which is the Canadian Province of Alberta. Uh, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.440 it's virtually free of the Norway rat. Uh. Now, wild 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.520 rats do turn up from time to time, brought in 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.119 through traditional means, you know, they come in, you know, 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.359 on a ship ment or or so forth. But the 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.280 province has been very proactive in squashing these flare ups 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.600 to hold onto that rat free championship that they've that 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.840 they've earned. You know, I have been to Alberta, actually 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.879 have been to the city of Calgary and and driven 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.119 around in there, and I never noticed roving teams of 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:33.280 anti rat sorcerers, rat exorcists of any kind. So so 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.520 what's the secret? Yeah, that's like everybody's next question. How 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.400 did they get rat free? What they do? What can 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.359 I do to get that in my city? Well, basically 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.160 they were just able to keep the rats out before 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.359 they moved in, which I think lines up rather nicely 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.560 with the story of far Below, the idea of keep 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:52.840 the ghouls from boiling up into New York City because 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.280 once they're up, there's no getting rid of them. Announce 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.120