1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. The second season of the TV show Gentleman 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: Jack has been airing on HBO or on BBC One 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: for folks in the UK. Back when the first season 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: came out in we heard from a lot of people 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: that they first learned about the show's protagonist and lister 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: from our January episode of the podcast. The first season 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: of this show, uh, which again is called Gentleman Jack, 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: it kind of skipped over and listens earlier life, which 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: is a big part of this episode, and those early 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: years really revealed and listener to be a complicated person. 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: I can't really say how season two aligns with the 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: real Analyst though, because even though this Saturday classic is 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: coming out towards the very end of this season, we 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: are recording it when only one episode has come out 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: in the US so far, and I haven't even watched 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: that one yet. Dundon, who knows holp you a surprise. 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: Holly Frying. Even if you are not a fan of 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: Regency fiction, you're probably familiar with this whole idea of 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: a woman who is in search of a husband, either 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: because her family doesn't have any money, or because the 24 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: money they do have is all settled on a male relative, 25 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: leaving nothing for the families women. It's such a running 26 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: theme in fiction that's either from or about the whole 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: Regency era that it's easy to start imagining that every 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: upper class woman's life worked that way. So today we're 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: going to talk about a woman whose life defied that 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: whole convention. Her name was Anne Lister, and she was 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: not looking for a husband at all. She was looking 32 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: for a wife. And Lister was also a prolific diarist. 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: She wrote more than six thousand pages and four million 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: words over her lifetime, and about a sixth of those 35 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: words were written in code. And these coded sections she 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: wrote about her relationships with other women so frankly and 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: with so much detail that when these coded sections were 38 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: first decoded, people wondered if they were a hoax. It 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: probably didn't help it. In addition to all of the 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: sexually explicit parts, the lives of Anne and her social 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: and romantic circles are really really full of drama. It's 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: like if Jane Austen met Sarah Waters. So we are 43 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: not going to get into the details of Anne's sex life, 44 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: but heads up that if this episode piques your interest 45 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: and you decide to go read her diaries for yourself, 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: you will learn a lot a lot about it. Also 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: just a heads up that later on this episode we 48 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: have a brief mention of a rape. And Lister was 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: born in Halifax, West Yorkshire, on April third. Her parents 50 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: were Jeremy Lister and Rebecca Battle. Ann's father had served 51 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: with the British in the American Revolutionary War, and Anne 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: was one of six children, four boys and two girls. 53 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: The Listers are part of the Landed gentry, and Jeremy's 54 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: older brother, James, had inherited the estate of Shibden Hall. 55 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 1: He was living there with his and Jeremy's sister, who 56 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: was also named Anne. There are a lot of Ann's 57 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: in this story. Shibden Hall had an income from rents 58 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: on the cottages and the farms that were part of 59 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: the estate, and this was large enough of an income 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: that the family did not have to work, but not 61 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: large enough to support a particularly lavish lifestyle. Apart from 62 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: not having to work, An's immediate family didn't have much 63 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: money of their own, and three brothers were next in 64 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: line to inherit Shibden Hall, but Anne herself was not 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: expecting any kind of inheritance. When she left for boarding 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: school in eighteen o four. It was her aunt Anne 67 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: who was paying her way, and boarding school was the 68 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: Mannor School in York, and that is where she had 69 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: her first romantic relationship, which was with another student named 70 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: Eliza rain And and Eliza shared an attic room at 71 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: the school that was nicknamed the Slope. The rest of 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: the school's boarding students were housed in a dormitory, and 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: the reason for Anne and Eliza being housed in the 74 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: attic is not specifically documented, but there are some likely reasons. 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: For Anne. It was probably because of money. The school's 76 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: other boarding students were generally much wealthier than she was, 77 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: and it's also possible that the school's staff wanted to 78 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: keep Anne separate from the other girls because of her behavior. 79 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: She was stubborn and rebellious and an unladylike tomboy. This 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: whole making her live in the attic thing because she 81 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: didn't have any money reminds me of a little Princess 82 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: starring Shirley Temple. Uh, yeah, that one that shows up 83 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: in various places. It's almost trophy. Yeah. Well, I think 84 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: that that's part of the reason why people were like, 85 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: are these diaries reeled? In addition to women definitely wouldn't 86 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: write about this stuff. There's the kids are living in 87 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: the attic because they don't have any money. So meanwhile, 88 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: Eliza was the daughter of an Indian woman and an 89 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: English doctor who had served with the British East India Company. 90 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: Her parents had gotten married in India, but their marriage 91 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: wasn't registered back in Britain, so Eliza and her sister 92 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: Jane were both considered to be illegitimate. Eliza was wealthy, 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: so the money thing was not why she was in 94 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: the attic. She was probably housed in the attic due 95 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: to a combination of racism and concerns about her supposedly 96 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: out of wedlock birth. Living together in the slope, and 97 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: and Eliza developed an intense friendship that evolved into a 98 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: romantic relationship. After about six months, they had exchanged rings 99 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: and promised to marry one another after they finished school. 100 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: They also worked out a code that come find mathematical 101 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: and zodiac symbols with Latin and Greek letters so that 102 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: they could write each other love letters without being discovered. 103 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: It was really probably Eliza, who already spoke multiple languages, 104 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: that created the code itself, and would later use this 105 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: code to write all the details, I mean really all 106 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: of them about her relationships with other women in her diary. 107 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: After Anne and Eliza had been together for about two years, 108 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: someone intercepted a package that one of them sent to 109 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: the other, and their relationship was at that point discovered. 110 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: Anne was immediately asked to leave the school and told 111 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: that she could only come back after Eliza had left. 112 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: So Anne went back home to Halifax, where she was 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: tutored by the Reverend Samuel Knight. But this physical separation 114 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: didn't stop, and an Eliza's relationship, they kept writing each 115 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: other letters, this time without raising anybody's suspicions. Eliza also 116 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: came to stay with Anne for every school break, and 117 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: Ann's first entry and her first diary, which is stated 118 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: August eleven of eighteen oh six, is from the end 119 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: of one of these visits that began simply Eliza left us. 120 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: By the autumn of eighteen o eight, Anne was getting restless. 121 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: She was seventeen at that point, and she had become 122 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot more flagrant and public in her stubborn tomboyishness. 123 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: She had also started giving flute lessons to an unmarried 124 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: woman named Maria Alexander, and this was a connection that 125 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: her family did not think was appropriate. Maria was over 126 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: thirty and her unmarried older brothers were also living at home. 127 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: Anne was also openly flirtatious with Maria, including in front 128 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of Eliza when she took her along on one of 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: these flute lesson visits. In addition to disregarding Eliza's feelings 130 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: and all of this, and also started more and more 131 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: wilfully disregarding social expectations about how girls should behave. She 132 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: asked to go to Portsmouth with the Alexander's without a chaperone, 133 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: on a trip that would also involve Maria's older, unmarried brothers. 134 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: She ignored her curfew, and she visited the Alexander's even 135 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: after her family had forbidden her to do so. When 136 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: her family finally gave her permission to spend two nights 137 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: with the Alexander's over New Year's Eve, she stayed there 138 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: for two weeks, and it wasn't just with the Alexander's 139 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: that Anne willfully defied what was expected of a young woman. 140 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: She started a neighborhood scandal after she went with a 141 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: Captain Burn to his chamber alone on more than one 142 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: occasion to look at his pistols. AND's behavior had become 143 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: so notorious that people in the neighborhood started calling her 144 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: gentleman Jack. So through all of this, And was still 145 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: having a relationship with Eliza, and her behavior was causing 146 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Eliza more and more distress. And this was particularly true 147 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: after And told Eliza that twenty one was much too 148 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: young for the two of them to live together and 149 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: they should wait until they were more like. They were 150 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: both seventeen at this point, so Anne was basically saying, 151 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: we'll live together in a decade. Eliza's letters to Anne 152 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: at this point became increasingly anxious and sorrowful, and by 153 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: eighteen o nine she was asking for reassurance that the 154 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: two of them would ever be together at all. In 155 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: eighteen ten, a tragedy struck the Lister family that changed 156 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: Anne's life significantly. We're going to discuss that. After we 157 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: first paused for a little sponsor break in January of 158 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: eighteen ten, Ann Lister's oldest brother, John died during an 159 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: influenza outbreak. John had been Anne's closest sibling, and they'd 160 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: already lost two of their other brothers, So instead of 161 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: being one of six siblings and was now one of three, 162 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: with only her brother Samuel and her sister Marian still living. 163 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: John's death meant that Anne was now second in line 164 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: to inherit Shibden Hall, rather than third. She started to 165 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: consider what it would mean if she inherited the estate 166 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: and what she would need to be able to do 167 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,359 Speaker 1: to run it herself. To do so in the lifestyle 168 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: she wanted, she would need more money than Shibden Hall 169 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: could provide. The solution was to marry well, and for 170 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: Anne that meant marrying a rich and ideally noble woman. 171 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: Eliza finished her studies at the Manor School that same year, 172 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: and she went to live with a cousin in Halifax 173 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: to wait for the day that she and Anne could 174 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: start a home together. With Eliza no longer at the school, 175 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: and went back, It's possible that Anne was still thinking 176 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: that she could make Eliza her wife. After all, Eliza 177 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: was an heiress, she really had a lot of money 178 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: that was going to come to her when she turned 179 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: twenty one. But not long after all of this, when 180 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: Anne became second in line to inherit Shibden Hall, Eliza's 181 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: family experienced its own tragedy. Eliza's sister Jane had gotten 182 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: married to Lieutenant Henry Bolton and moved back to India 183 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: with him, but he had abandoned her. Her inheritance had 184 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: become his when they married, so she had nothing of 185 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: her own. Arrangements were made for her to come back 186 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: to Halifax, but she had to travel for months on 187 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: a ship unaccompanied. She was imprisoned after arriving in France 188 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: because she couldn't prove her British citizenship. After all of this, 189 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: she arrived in England pregnant with a child that could 190 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: not have been her husband's that was almost certainly the 191 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: result of a rape. So now that she was second 192 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: in line to inherit Shipden Hall and started to care 193 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: a lot more about other people's opinions of her. This 194 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: included the opinions of two of the day students at 195 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: the Manor School. One was Isabella Northcliffe, who is referred 196 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: to as tib in Annt's journals. Isabella and Anne had 197 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: started a relationship, but then Isabella had had introduced Anne 198 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: to Marianna Belcolm. Of all of the women and was 199 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: involved with during her lifetime, she was probably the most 200 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: in love with Marianna. Anne worried about how Eliza's so 201 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: called fallen sister would affect Marianna and Isabella's opinions of her. 202 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: Anne kept her engagement to Eliza secret from Marianna and Isabella, 203 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: and she didn't tell Eliza about her romantic involvement with 204 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: the two young women back at school, but it was 205 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: obvious to Eliza that Anne was forming new relationships and 206 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: that she was excluding her from them. When Anne visited 207 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: Marianna or Isabella, Eliza was not invited. As Eliza approached 208 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: her twenty first birthday, which was when she would actually 209 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: receive her inheritance, she found herself with her own suitor. 210 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: This was Captain John Alexander, who insisted that this had 211 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: nothing to do with her money at Whether that's true, uh, 212 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: not really sure, but Eliza still considered herself to be 213 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: Anne's wife. She was also increasingly worried, though, that Anne 214 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: was never going to make good on her promise that 215 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: they would lived together one day, so she wrote to 216 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: Anne to get reassurance about this their future together and 217 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: didn't answer. Instead, Anne, who could be pretty manipulative in 218 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: her relationships, sent letters to Eliza's guardian, William Duffin, as 219 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: well as to Captain Alexander, and gave each of them 220 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: a distorted version of what was going on. The result 221 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: was that the Captain went to William Duffin to demand 222 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: to marry Ealiza, but Duffin refused. Even though none of 223 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: this was any of her own doing, Eliza found herself 224 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: branded as a temptress and she was ostracized. She was 225 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: so distraught over everything that she took a trip to 226 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: Bristol to try to recover. Meanwhile, Anne went on her 227 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: own trip to Bath with Isabella and Marianna, until it 228 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: became clear that she just did not have the money 229 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: or the social connections to keep up with two of 230 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 1: them there. So Anne went back home on June nine 231 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: thirteen as twenty two year old, and was on her 232 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: way home she learned that her last surviving brother, Samuel, 233 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: had drowned. Anne was now the one who would inherit 234 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: Shibden Hall, and it became even more important to her 235 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: to have a respectable life and reputation. Although her brother 236 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: had died during military service, he had drowned on a 237 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: pleasure boat. It was not considered to be a very 238 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: noble or distinguished death, and Anne thought that she needed 239 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: to make the family respectable again and to conduct herself 240 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: in a way that would bring honor to the estate 241 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: of Shibden Hall. An started cutting ties with Eliza. She 242 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: didn't invite Eliza to Sam's funeral or answer her repeated 243 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: requests to return her letters and gifts and engagement ring, 244 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: and eventually invited Eliza on a trip that she was 245 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: taking with Isabella, but Eliza got really sick early into 246 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: the journey and went home again once she was better. 247 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: Eliza was distraught over An's rejection, and not long after 248 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: she got home, she had an unexpected visit it from 249 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: her sister Jane, who by this time was struggling with 250 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: both alcoholism and tuberculosis and was supporting herself through sex work. 251 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: Jane also seemed to be emotionally unstable, and when Eliza 252 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: started to look for a place in London to have 253 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: her committed, gossip began to spread that she was doing 254 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: all of this for her own personal gain. Eliza went 255 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: through cycles of depression and agitation, until Marianna Belcome asked 256 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: her father, who ran an asylum, to intervene. Eliza was 257 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: temporarily committed, and from that point she was in and 258 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: out of asylums until eighteen sixteen, when she was declared insane. 259 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: Eliza spent the rest of her life in Marianna Belcolm's 260 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: father's asylum, and she died there in eighteen sixty at 261 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: the age of sixty eight. She had a will. Originally 262 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: she had left everything to Anne, but she had rewritten 263 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: it to leave everything to her former suitor, Captain Alexander, 264 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: who she eventually seemed to regret not having married. But 265 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: this new will was ruled invalid and so what was 266 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: left of her fortune was claimed by the crown. As 267 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: for Eliza's sister, her son died in eighteen seventeen at 268 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: the age of six, and in eighteen nineteen her husband 269 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: was killed in action. Even though he had abandoned her, 270 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: Jane was still legally his wife, so what was left 271 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: of her fortune reverted back to her. This was unfortunately 272 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: not in time to help her. However. James tuberculosis was 273 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: quite advanced at that time, and she died in November 274 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: of eighteen nineteen, only a few months after her husband's death. 275 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: As all of this was happening with Eliza being committed, 276 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: she obviously lived much longer after that. Anne suffered a 277 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: rejection of her own. Although she had never stopped having 278 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: physical relationships with other women, she was still passionately in 279 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: love with Marianna Belcolm. She had been making plans for 280 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: the two of them to have a life together, but 281 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: in March of eighteen sixteen, Marianna's family found a suitor 282 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: for her. They arranged things so that Anne, who was visiting, 283 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: would be staying with neighbors instead of at their house, 284 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: and then they secreted Marianna away to get married to 285 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: Charles Lawton. Anne was devastated. She made Marianna promise that 286 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: they would still live together once Charles died, and since 287 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: he was twenty years older than Marianna was, she hoped 288 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: that that was going to happen soon. In the meantime, 289 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: the two women did not stop seeing each other, and 290 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: Anne even lived with Marianna and Charles for the first 291 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: six months of their marriage. When Charles realized that Marianna 292 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: and Anne were physically involved, he banished Anne from the house, 293 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: but eventually he did allow the two women to see 294 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: one another again. This didn't work out so well for 295 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: Anne though. Later on in her life, she contracted a 296 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: sexually transmitted infection for Marianna and then pass it on 297 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: to at least one other partner. She eventually went to 298 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: Paris to try to seek medical treatment for this infection, 299 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: but there was not really a cure for whatever it 300 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: was at this point, so she probably carried it for 301 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: the rest of her life. After all of this drama, 302 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: Anne's life started to settle down a little. We're going 303 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: to talk more about that after we have another little 304 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: sponsor break and Lister never completely forgave herself for betraying Eliza, 305 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: and she visited her in the asylum from time to 306 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: time until her death. After her own heartbreak with Marianna, 307 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: and started to take a more practical approach to finding 308 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: a wife. She started looking for somebody who would have 309 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: enough money to support the lifestyle that she wanted, but 310 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily someone who would provoked that same all consuming 311 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: love that she had had for Marianna. She also became 312 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: more practical in the rest of her affairs. By eighteen seventeen, 313 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: she had moved into Shibdon Hall with her aunt Anne 314 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: and uncle James, and she wanted to prove to them 315 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: that she was capable of managing the estate herself, even 316 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: though she was the heir. There were other branches of 317 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: the Lister family and wanted to rule out any possibility 318 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: that the estate would wind up settled on them instead. 319 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: Anne had been keeping her diaries on a messy collection 320 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: of paper scraps until this point, but she abandoned that 321 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventeen and started writing in large bound journals, 322 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: meticulously dating her entries and recording all of her daily habits. 323 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: Anne's daily writing included the weather, how she had slept, 324 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: what she was learning. She was determined to continue her education, 325 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: and so she got up at five am every day 326 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: to study, and then she kept records of all of 327 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: her progress in her diary. She also used these diaries 328 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: to keep up with what was going on at Shibdon 329 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: Hall in the surrounding neighborhood. She kept track of all 330 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: her purchases and her interactions with tenants and workers. She 331 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: made notes about local gossip and quarrels among the gentry. 332 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: She also noted what was going on in the rest 333 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: of the world the same way that Samuel Peep's diary 334 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: created an important record of life in London and major 335 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: world events from sixteen sixty to sixteen sixty nine, and 336 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: Lister's diary really created a record of Halifax in the 337 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: greater world from eighteen seventeen to eighteen forty. She also 338 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: became a lot more reserved in her behavior in her habits, 339 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: while continuing to defy gender expectations. She dressed in black, 340 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: which wasn't a color that women typically wore unless they 341 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: were in mourning, but it was a color that men 342 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: often wore while traveling, and was sort of patterning her 343 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: wardrobe around the idea of a distinguished conservative gentleman traveler. 344 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: She didn't wear trousers, though these were black dresses that 345 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: had a somewhat more masculine air. She also made it 346 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: a point not to gossip about people anymore. So like 347 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: that business where she was writing misleading letters to people 348 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: to try to get away, Like that really cut a 349 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: lot back. I'm so good, I'm so delighted to hear it. Uh. 350 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: When she was about twenty six and attracted the attentions 351 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: of a Mr. Montague, but she did not reciprocate on 352 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: January nine, eight twenty one, she wrote in her diary 353 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: that she had burned all of his farewell verses so 354 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: that quote no trace of any man's admiration may remain. 355 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: She went on to say, quote, I love and only 356 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: love the fairer sex, and thus beloved by them. In turn, 357 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: my heart revolts from any other love than theirs. In 358 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: July of eighteen twenty two, and and her aunt took 359 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: a tour of North Wales and they visited past podcast 360 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: subjects Eleanor Butler and Sarah Ponsonby the Ladies of Lonothlind. 361 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: On the twenty three she met Sarah Ponsonby at plas Knewid, 362 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: which was their home. Eleanor was ill that day and 363 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: was asleep during aunt's visit. She exchanged some letters with 364 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: the Ladies of Longothlind later on after she returned home. 365 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: In January of eighteen twenty six, as uncle James died, 366 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: and An inherited Shibden Hall under the condition that her aunt, 367 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: Anne and her father could still live on the property 368 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: and collect portions of their rent. And Anne continued to 369 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: manage the domestic world of the household. While Anne was 370 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: responsible for the day to day matters of managing the estate, 371 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: which she did with the help of a steward for 372 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: the agricultural work and an agent for the industrial work. 373 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: She also got to work trying to improve the estate. 374 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: She had two goals in mind, to provide the family 375 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: with an ongoing comfortable income and to situate the estate 376 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: so that it would be worth more when it was 377 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: passed on to another air. Her extensive self education over 378 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: the past decade or so really paid off in this. 379 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: She had developed a working knowledge of science, engineering, and business, 380 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: as well as the industries that were growing up in 381 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: the area, including cold timber and stone. She also began 382 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: traveling extensively all over Europe as she continued to look 383 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: for a suitable wife. She had no trouble finding love interests. 384 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: When she met someone she thought might return her interest, 385 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: she would bring up a book or a play that 386 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: had subtle or overt themes of love between women and 387 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: see how the other woman responded. And this led to 388 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: a lot of flings, but not really to any long 389 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: term attachment. It was back home in Halifax that Anne 390 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: Lester finally found a woman to spend the rest of 391 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: her life with, and that woman was Ann Walker. An 392 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 1: heiress who lived on a nearby estate. Her method of 393 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: finding potential love interests is like the modern equivalent would 394 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: be walking up to somebody and and asking them whether 395 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: they like Teaket and Sarah like this is sort of 396 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: the regency equivalent of gator conversation. In eighteen thirty two, 397 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: and Lester had started working with an architect named John 398 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: Harper to try to improve Shipton Hall's architecture and its grounds. 399 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: She was a really avid walker, so she had added 400 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: a wilderness garden complete with waterfalls and a small chamiere 401 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 1: which is a thatch roof hut, and this hut became 402 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: her retreat while she can while she courted and Walker. 403 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: And Walker, for her part, is wary of an Lister, 404 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: and Lister made no secret of the fact that she 405 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: was interested in and Walker's money, and ann Walker knew 406 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: and Lister was not in love with her. But by 407 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty four both of the ants were living at 408 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: Shibden Hall, and on Easter Sunday of that year they 409 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: exchanged rings with one another and then took communion together 410 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: at Holy Trinity Church in good ram Gate in York. 411 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: They lived from that point on as a married couple, 412 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: including renting a pew together in the front row of 413 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: their parish church, and Walker's money funded a lot of 414 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: the work that Anne Lister was planning at Shibden Hall 415 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: over the next few years. Improvements included a Norman tower 416 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: to house the library, a grand staircase in the entryway, 417 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: and a set of tunnels so that the household staff 418 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: could get from place to place without being seen. And 419 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: Lister also decided to try her hand at managing a 420 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: coal mining operation rather than leasing the rights to someone 421 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: else and earning money that way, and Walker's money fund 422 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,959 Speaker 1: at the sinking of two coal pits on Shipden Hall's property. 423 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: The two ants also continued traveling as much as their 424 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: time and Anne Walker's money allowed, and Lister was really 425 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: the one driving these trips. She had way more wander 426 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: less than Anne Walker did. These weren't laid back pleasure 427 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: trips either. Their travels were daring and unconventional, and Lister 428 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: was an avid mountaineer and she summitted multiple peaks in 429 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: the Pyrenees. They took horseback journeys into territory that was 430 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: really more often home to military units than two unescorted ladies. 431 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty six, and Lister's father died. She was 432 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: at that point a d in control of shib In Hall. 433 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: I think this means that her aunt Anne had also died, 434 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: but I could not find confirmation of when that happened. 435 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: In eighteen thirty seven, the two hands wrote out wills 436 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: to each other, and each of them left the other 437 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: one all of her possessions and wealth on the condition 438 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: that the surviving and never married. In eight thirty nine, 439 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: they left on a two year trip through Scandinavia, the 440 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: Low Countries and Russia. The following year, and Lister contracted 441 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: some kind of fever while touring the Caucusus. In her 442 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: last diary entry, dated August eighteen forty, she doesn't mention 443 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: anything odd about her health, but on September twenty she 444 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: died at the age of forty nine. She had apparently 445 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: requested to be buried at home in Halifax, so Anne 446 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: Walker had her body embalmed and accompanied it on a 447 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: six month journey home, and Lister was finally buried at 448 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: Halifax Parish Church. Their relationship had not always been particularly happy, 449 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: right I just I imagine an Walker just kind of 450 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: gritting her teeth through some of this travel when she 451 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: really wanted to be at home with their nice garden 452 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: in the waterfall in the library at Shipton Hall. But 453 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: and Lister's death and this long journey home with her 454 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: body really took a toll on an walk his health. 455 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: In eighteen forty two, her sister and a doctor conspired 456 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: to have her declared insane and committed to an asylum 457 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: so that they could take over her fortune, including Shipton Hall. 458 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: This was temporary in terms of the ownership of Shipton Hall. 459 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: When Anne Walker died in eighteen fifty four, the estate 460 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: reverted back to the Lister family. Ann Lister's diaries stayed 461 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: in the family library until the late nineteenth century. John 462 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: Lister's parents had inherited the estate when he was eight, 463 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: and he had been publishing transcriptions of the plain language 464 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: portions of Anne's diaries in the Halifax Guardian. With the 465 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: help of Arthur Barrell, he cracked the code and discovered 466 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: what Anne had been writing about all that time. Ton 467 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: Lister was horrified. I mean, I can't stress that they 468 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: are really explicit. Uh. And apart from there being really explicit, 469 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: homosexuality between men was illegal in Britain at the time, 470 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: and although homosexuality between women wasn't specifically outlawed, it was 471 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: highly stigmatized. So John Lister thought about burning these diaries 472 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: when he realized what was in them. Ultimately, I think 473 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: fortunately he locked them away again. It's been speculated that 474 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: John Lister also had relationships with other men, and that 475 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: this desire to keep the diaries hidden was partly by 476 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: motivated by self preservation and basically being afraid of outing himself. 477 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: Until the mid twentieth century, most of the archivists and 478 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: historians who examined Anne Lister's diaries stayed away from their 479 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: explicit content in their published work. Dr Phyllis Ramsden worked 480 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: with the journals in the nineteen sixties and wound up 481 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: mostly establishing a chronology and focusing on Anne's travels. A 482 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: graduate student named Vivian Ingham was part of this work 483 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: as well, and was working on a PhD dissertation, but 484 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: she died before that work was complete. By the nineteen eighties, 485 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: at least some of the stigma surrounding lesbian relationships was 486 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: starting to fade, and in historian Helena Whitbread published I 487 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: Know My Own Heart The Diaries of En Lister eighteen forty. 488 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: This volume included both decoded and transcribed material from the diaries. 489 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: She published a second collection in so these two volumes 490 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: obviously do not cover the entire diary that is thousands 491 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: and thousands of pages, but they did make some of 492 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: the decoded material widely available for the first time, and 493 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: really parts of the rest of it as well. Even 494 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: when she was not writing in code. An Lister's handwriting 495 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: is really hard to read. There are a lot of 496 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: scans of pages from the diary on the internet. It 497 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: is very difficult. And on top of the very difficult 498 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: to read parts, she used a lot of a lot 499 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: a lot of made up abbreviations, so it could be 500 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: hard even when you could read what she was saying 501 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: to figure out exactly what she was talking about. The 502 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 1: thing too, to consider, right when you're looking at someone's 503 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: diaries and we've established that she really notated everything, is 504 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: that a lot of it is probably very boring. Weather 505 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: and Ye had like transaction talk, so that would be 506 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: why probably most people would not want to read a 507 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: list of the temperatures in Halifax. Of course, so several 508 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: years uh an Lister's diaries are one of the longest 509 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: in the English language, and they demonstrate how she really 510 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: was ahead of her time. She successfully managed and improved 511 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: on Shibden Hall at a time when it was not 512 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: common at all for a woman to be the head 513 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: of a household. In this way, she held her own 514 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: and the overwhelmingly male dominated and cut throat coal industry, 515 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: she found a way to live with a lot more 516 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: independence and autonomy than many women, even other wealthy white women, 517 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: were able to do it this time. The diaries also 518 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: show how she was ahead of her time in terms 519 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: of her relationships with other women, to the point that 520 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: she's sometimes described as the first modern lesbian. There have 521 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: obviously been same sex relationships throughout recorded history, but the 522 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: idea of a lesbian identity, or the more general idea 523 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: that having relationships with someone of the same sex is 524 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: intrinsically connected to who you are as a person, is 525 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: way more recent in the Western world. According to the 526 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: Oxford English Dictionary, the word lesbianism was first used in 527 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: writing to describe homosexual attraction between women in eighteen seventy, 528 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: with lesbian first used in the same way twenty years later, 529 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: and using the word lesbian to describe a person instead 530 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: of an attraction or a sex act is even later 531 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: than that that's first used in writing in and that 532 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: same thing is true for most of the synonyms. So 533 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: sapphis um meaning homosexual relations between women dates back to 534 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety, but sapphist didn't arrive until the nineteen twenties, 535 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: and even then it indicated a dysfunction more than an identity. 536 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: All of this was decade after Anne Lister's death in 537 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: eighteen forty, even though she was living before language really 538 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: existed to describe herself, and Lister did seem to have 539 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: a sense that her attraction to other women was an 540 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: intransic part of herself. Her diaries document a lot of 541 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: self reflection and introspection about why she was attracted to 542 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: women and what that meant about her, and is also 543 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: completely accepting of who she is and these diaries, although 544 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: she does document some incidents of being harassed for what 545 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: she was wearing or how she lived her life, this 546 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: is really different from a lot of other early lesbian literature, 547 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: like if you read The Well of Loneliness, which is 548 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: generally marked as the first lesbian novel in English, it 549 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: is tragic and sad and full of just a lot 550 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: of self doubt and shame, and there's none of that 551 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: and Ann Lister's life, uh, probably because she lived before 552 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: lesbian was really an identity, because like the coalescence of 553 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: that identity was happening at the same time time as 554 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: a lot of criminalization was happening in stigma, and when 555 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: those two things like came about in parallel with each other, 556 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: that meant you can see it's affect on people's um 557 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: like sense of themselves and mental health and all of that. 558 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: In early lesbian literature. This sets Anne and her diaries 559 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: apart from some of the other women that we've talked 560 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: about on the show who definitely had long term and 561 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: loving relationships with other women, but lived before the idea 562 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: of a lesbian identity really existed in Western culture. So 563 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: examples would be the aforementioned Ladies of Lang Lacham and 564 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: Jane Adams. Yet Jane adams life overlapped the evolution of 565 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: lesbian identity, but this isn't something that she wrote about 566 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: in any of her surviving journals or papers or anything, 567 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: so we know a lot less about how she conceived 568 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: of herself. It's easy to assume what she would have 569 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: thought about herself, but we also have other examples of 570 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: people we do you know about who lived at a 571 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: time when an identity was evolving and we're like, I 572 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: don't feel like that word applies to me, Like we 573 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: saw that with Sylvia Rivera and the word transgender. She 574 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: was like, I'm not sure that's me. I have another 575 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: person on my short list for a future episode maybe 576 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: who was a vaudeville female impersonator that similarly lived at 577 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: a time when gay became a like more coalesced into 578 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 1: an identity for men, and was similarly like, I don't 579 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: think that's me, even though he exclusively had relationships other 580 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: men for his whole life. So anyway, because of all 581 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: this Inleven, the United Kingdom formally recognized the historical and 582 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: cultural value of Anlister's diaries and they were added to 583 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: the UNESCO Memory of the World Register. Their entry on 584 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: the UK Memory of the World Register page reads, in 585 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: part quote, the diaries include a wealth of information about politics, business, 586 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: estate management, religion, education and reading, science, medicine, travel, and 587 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: local and national events. As this important area of Yorkshire 588 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: experienced the rapid effects of the Industrial Revolution. Seen from 589 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: the viewpoint of an extremely well educated and pioneering. Should 590 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: probably say woman here, but there seems to be a 591 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: word missing. It is her comprehensive and painfully honest account 592 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: of lesbian life and reflections on her nature, however, which 593 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: have made these diaries unique. They have shaped and continued 594 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: to shape the direction of UK gender studies and women's history. 595 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: Her story reminds me a lot of the same exact 596 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 1: kinds of um squabbles and pettyback biting that I lived 597 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: through in middle school, but with much higher stakes we 598 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: were We were not having people confined two asylums in 599 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: middle school, when we were sending snipy back bitey mean 600 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: girl letters to each other. Yeah, I think where I 601 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: I have a moment where I turn on analystic is 602 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: the letter or where she kind of contrives some some 603 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: poor things to happen to Eliza by sort of betraying 604 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: her and making stuff up. Yeah she yeah, Heay so 605 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: much for joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode 606 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: is out of the archive, if you heard an email 607 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: address or a Facebook U r L or something similar 608 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: over the course of the show, that could be obsolete now. 609 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: Our current email address is History Podcast at I heart 610 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Our old health stuff works, email address 611 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: no longer works, and you can find us all over 612 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: social media at Missed in History and you can subscribe 613 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: to our show on Apple podcasts, Google Podcasts, the I 614 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. 615 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 616 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 617 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 618 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H m hm