1 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Modern public relations industry was created as a response to 2 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: basically creeping democracy. More and more people were wanting in 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: on this freedom thing, and it made the country's titans 4 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: of industry nervous. You had the muckrakers, journalists like Upton Sinclair, 5 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: Ida Tarbell, and Ida b Wells writing about the dark 6 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: side of the American dream, exposing the robber barons who 7 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: ran the coal, oil, and railroad industries, calling for fair 8 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: treatment of workers and factories, and shining a light on 9 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: systemic and often violent discrimination. And you had various groups 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: fighting to expand the vote to people who weren't white, male, 11 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: or rich. Ivy Lee and Edward Berneze emerged in the 12 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: midst of this and put their propaganda skills to work, 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: helping the powerful stay right where they were. 14 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: I mean, what's interesting is that the exact same kind 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: of thing occurred in the nineteen sixties when corporations started 16 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: again being held responsible for their environmental, health and safety 17 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: records by the new social movements that come out of 18 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: the sixties, the civil rights movement, the consumer movement, and 19 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: the environmental movement. 20 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: That's Brown University environmental sociologist Bob Brule. He's the first 21 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: person who told me about the focus of our episode today, 22 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: a guy by the name of E. Bruce Harrison. 23 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: Into this breach steps E. Bruce Harrison to develop newer 24 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: social technologies, to be able to equip corporations to be 25 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: able to address this new challenge to their image. So 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: there's a great deal of parallel between the muckrakers in 27 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: the progressive era and the environmental movement and the new 28 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: social movements that come out of the nineteen sixties, and 29 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: how industry got at first caught flat footed. 30 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: One of the many interesting things about Harrison is the 31 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: fact that his wife, Patricia was very much his partner 32 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: in crime. The Harrisons ran a PR firm together from 33 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three to nineteen ninety six. They were real 34 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: partners equals. Patricia was sort of a prototypical career woman 35 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy's Cheryl Sandberg. If you will, Here's E. 36 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Bruce in a twenty ten interview describing Patricia as one 37 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: of his mentors. 38 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: My wife Patricia, who joined me in business for twenty 39 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: five years until we sold the firm, and who taught 40 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 3: me far more about populations and communications and presentation than 41 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 3: I could possibly have known and half the presenter that 42 00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: she is. 43 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: The Hairrison were as subtle as they were brilliant. They 44 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: changed the way the industry talked about environmental issues, not 45 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: just in terms of what they said, but how they communicated, 46 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: how they got their message out. Doctor Brule once described 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: them to me as the intellectual parents of climate denial, 48 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: and having researched them for a year or so, now 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: I don't think that's an overstatement. They're still active today 50 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: in ways that might surprise you. That's the story we're 51 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: going to tell in this episode. I'm Amy Westervelt and 52 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: this is Drilled, season three. The Madmen of Climate Denial. 53 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: E Bruce and Patricia Harrison had pretty different childhoods. E 54 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,839 Speaker 1: Bruce was born in nineteen thirty two in Lynette, Alabama. 55 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: Patricia's birthdate is tough to find, but she was born 56 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: into an Italian immigrant family in Brooklyn, and she's a 57 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: fair bit younger than E Bruce. He's eighty eight now 58 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: and retired. Well, she's still very much working. We'll get 59 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: to that in a minute. Like a lot of our 60 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: mad men, E Bruce is a thwarted journalist. Here he 61 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: is explaining his reporter roots. 62 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: Started off as a journalist, that is to say, a 63 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: newspaper reporter. Always wanted to be one. Grew up in Alabama, 64 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: LAS about ten or twelve years old. My brother and 65 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: I he's too young, and I started following newspapers, reading newspapers, 66 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 3: and in fact started to create rival newspapers that he 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 3: and I would write and try to sell to neighbors. 68 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: For some reason, more than half of the pr legends 69 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: we've covered this season didn't just start out as reporters, 70 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: but specifically as sports reporters. Something to do with game theory. 71 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. Anyway, he Bruce did too. 72 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 3: I'll follow that path toward being a newspaper reporter. My 73 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 3: dream was to become a sports reporter or a sports 74 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: editor of a daily newspaper. That was my dream for 75 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: many years. Ended up doing sports reporting in high school 76 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: and in college University of Alabama. Ended up editor of 77 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: the campus newspaper graduate journalism. 78 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: But it wasn't long until he got into politics. 79 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 3: I had a rather brief three year career in reporting 80 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: in Alabama and weekly newspapers, and then went to Columbus, Georgia, 81 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: where I was a political reporter of a daily and 82 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 3: did that until I got the call to Washington from 83 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 3: a friend who got elected to Congress and asked me 84 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 3: if I would come to Washington and be his press secretary, 85 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: which was, as they say down South, tall cotton for 86 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: a little boy from Lynnette, Alabama. So I did that, 87 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: came to Washington, became a press secretary, and moved up 88 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: to being his legislative stant and finally administrative assistant. Did 89 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: that for a few years, then got into the political realm. 90 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: Did a little campaign in political campaigning for various candidates, 91 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 3: including the John F. Kennedy campaign of nineteen sixty when 92 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 3: I was on the speaking circuit and wait for it, 93 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 3: Alabama campaigning for Jack Kennedy. Do you want a man 94 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: for president? Who? 95 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: Now you might remember one of our other mad men, 96 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: Herb Schmertz, also worked for Kennedy's campaign. He and Harrison 97 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: were operating around the same time and almost certainly would 98 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: have crossed paths, but so far we have no proof 99 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: that such a meeting ever happened. At any rate, you 100 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: can imagine that Kennedy was not the most popular candidate 101 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: in Alabama in the sixties. That gig seems to have 102 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: been enough to push Harrison out of politics, but of 103 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: course by this point he'd built up some contacts on 104 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: the Hill and an understanding of how policy is shaped. 105 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: Following that went into industry, first with the chemical industry. 106 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: Boy Diddy Harrison got a job as director of public 107 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: relations for the Manufacturing Chemists Association in nineteen sixty one. 108 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: That organization is called the American Chemistry Council today. A 109 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: year after E. Bruce joined them, Rachel Carson's book Silent 110 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: Spring came out. If you don't know much about that 111 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: book or Carson, she was a science writer for US 112 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife, and in the years leading up to 113 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: writing Silent Spring, she kept being asked to write up 114 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: the results of various studies that concerned her. What she 115 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: was seeing was that industrial chemicals were having a huge 116 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: negative impact on the environment. They were impacting wildlife too, 117 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: which made Carson wonder what they might be doing to humans. 118 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: Here she is in an interview shortly after the book 119 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: came out. 120 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 4: The public was being asked to accept these chemicals and 121 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 4: did not have the whole picture, so I said about 122 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 4: to remedy the balance there. 123 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: That book was a serious alarm bell industry was spoiling 124 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: public resources, possibly harming public health, and they were doing 125 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: it with impunity. Silent Spring wasn't just some dry science 126 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: book that no one read either. It was excerpted in 127 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: The New Yorker for months before it came out, and 128 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: it debuted as a New York Times bestseller. Everyone was 129 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: talking about this book in nineteen sixty two. It's often 130 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: credited with launching the modern environmental movement, and it also 131 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: launched Ebruce Harrison's career. Here's doctor Brule again. 132 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: Debruce Harrison is the father of modern environmental public relations. 133 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: Apparently his boss walked into his office holding up a 134 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: copy of Rachel Carson's book, going, it's Pearl Harbor for 135 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: the chemical industry, you know, and then it tells Bruce, 136 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: you're gonna work on this full time. Get over to DuPont. 137 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: They're leading the you know, the corporate effort. And he 138 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: then gets enlisted in the effort to address the issues 139 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: raised by Rachel Carson in Silent Spring. And it's out 140 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: of this experience that Bruce Harrison develops the whole social 141 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 2: technology of environmental public relations. 142 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: The industry mounted an all out attack against Carson. They 143 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: said her data was flawed. That is not only not 144 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: a scientist but also a woman. She'd gotten the facts wrong, 145 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: that she had some sort of personal vendetta against the 146 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: chemical industry because she had cancer. Of course, when government 147 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: scientists did go through her data, they were able to 148 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: double check all of her work and came to the 149 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: same conclusions. By nineteen sixty four, President Lyndon B. Johnson 150 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: was signing the Pesticide Control Bill. Unfortunately, it came just 151 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: months after Carson had died. 152 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 4: Closing loopholes which permitted pesticides to be sold before they 153 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 4: were fully tested. This bill safeguards I held of all Americans. 154 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 4: I'm sorry the boys of Rachel Carson is still today. 155 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 4: She would have been proud of this bill in this moment. 156 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: Harrison left the chemical industry in nineteen sixty nine and 157 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: went to work for the mining business. 158 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 3: Became vice president of a mining company headquartered in New York, 159 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: where I was what's now called the chief communications officer, 160 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: the vice president for public relations, which was interesting pr 161 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: not only in the US but overseas, because we opened 162 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: the big copper mine in Indonesia and I was charged 163 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 3: with handling environmental energy, international relations, and corporate communications and 164 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: opening that mine. 165 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: By this point it was the early nineteen seventies. The 166 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: Watergate scandal broke in nineteen seventy two, the environmental and 167 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: civil rights movements were in full swing, and a guy 168 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,359 Speaker 1: with hairs and skills and connections was in demand for industry. 169 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: E Bruce and Patricia had gotten together by this point. 170 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: Two they got married and Patricia joined E. Bruce at 171 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: his new PR firm, the E. Bruce Harrison Company in 172 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three. Here's Bob brule again. 173 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 2: He's just at the right time, at the right place, 174 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 2: with the right product. Because the sixties and the seventies, 175 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: the corporations are really taking it on the chin from 176 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: environmental groups, and here comes along a guy with answers 177 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: of what do you do? And he develops these techniques 178 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: and then goes on to sell his services to a 179 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: wide variety of corporations, including most of the major oil companies. 180 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: The Global Climate Coalition the Coalition for Vehicle Choice. 181 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: The Global Climate Coalition was a coalition of companies and 182 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: trade groups that came together across industries to make sure 183 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: the US would not partake in any sort of binding 184 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: global treaty on climate change. That's not my opinion, that's 185 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: what they wrote down, you know, a whole bunch of 186 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: meeting notes and strategy documents that our favorite document guy, 187 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: Kurt Davies and the Climate Investigation Center dug up Ebrus 188 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: Harrison ran pr for the Global Climate Coalition from nineteen 189 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: ninety two to nineteen ninety six. We know how successful 190 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: their efforts were because Davies and his team have also 191 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: found documentation of later meetings between the State Department and 192 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: members of the Global Climate Coalition, congratulating the group on 193 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: their efforts. Here's Davies. 194 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 5: It's a briefing memorandum for Secretary Undersecretary de Brianski at 195 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 5: the State Department in June of two thousand and one. 196 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 5: She is about to meet with members of the Global 197 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 5: Climate Coalition and is being given talking points from a 198 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 5: deputy of hers named Ken Brill. And it states categorically 199 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 5: that the President of the United States rejected Kyoto in 200 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 5: part based on input from you. She's congratulating the GCC 201 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 5: members that are there and thanking them. 202 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: I asked Patricia Harrison if she'd had anything to do 203 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: with the work her firm did for the Global Climate Coalition, 204 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: and her publicist said no, but her involvement with various 205 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: other groups. The firm handled is documented and overall Patricia 206 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: was very involved in running the firm alongside her husband. 207 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: Patricia Harrison is a really interesting and quite influential person 208 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: in conservative circles. You know, they all say that they 209 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: were real true partners in the formation of E. Bruce 210 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: Harrison Incorporated. I mean, the thing that I find the 211 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: most interesting is that in nineteen ninety we know that 212 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: Patricia Harrison was on the National Coal Board, and in 213 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two the National Coal Board put out a 214 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: study about you know, Cole's image needs to be fixed. 215 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: It then lays out the need for an aggressive public 216 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: relations campaign to support you know, and change coal's image. 217 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: It certainly fits the pattern that was laid down by 218 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: her husband E. Bruce Harrison with the Global Climate Coalition 219 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: and the Coalition for Vehicle Choice. Is that we now 220 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: have the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity. 221 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: This report that doctor Brule is talking about is actually 222 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: from the National Coal Council, which Patricia Harrison sat on 223 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two as well. That report is where 224 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the whole idea of clean coal came from. 225 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 6: We're committed to a future in which our most abundant fuel. 226 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 6: Coal generates our electricity with even lower emissions, including the 227 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 6: capture and storage of CO two. It's a big challenge, 228 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 6: but we've made a commitment, a commitment to clean Learn 229 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 6: more about clean coal at america'spower dot org. 230 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: We know that Patricia was also involved in the National 231 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: Environmental Development Association because it's part of her official bio 232 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: in a lot of places. We'll get to her position 233 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: in the George W. Bush White House in a minute, 234 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: but her zio there read quote. As a founding partner 235 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: of E. Bruce Harrison Company, among the country's top ten 236 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: owner managed public affairs firms prior to its sale in 237 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, she created and directed programs in the 238 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: public interest, comprising diverse stakeholder groups, including the National Environmental 239 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: Development Association, a partnership of labor, agriculture, and industry working 240 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: for better environmental solutions together. The thing about this group, 241 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: like most of the Harrison's coalitions, is that it spawned 242 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: a whole host of subgroups too. One of them, the 243 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: Clean Air Project, counted Exonmobile, BP, Occidental, and Coke industries 244 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: as members. Another was more targeted to indoor air quality. 245 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: When I saw that NITA had an indoor air quality project. 246 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: I checked the Harrison's client list, and sure enough, like 247 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: a lot of our other madmen this season, they were 248 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: working for the oil and gas industry and the tobacco 249 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: industry at the same time. They counted Philip Morris and R. J. 250 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: Reynolds as clients. So I went digging through the tobacco 251 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: industry archive at the University of California at San Francisco, 252 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: and it turns out that the National Environmental Development Association's 253 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: Indoor air Quality Project was a tobacco industry front group. 254 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: The National Environmental Development Association created the Total Indoor Environmental 255 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: Quality Coalition with funding from RJ. Reynolds. The PR firm 256 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: and the front group share the same phone number. We 257 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: also found quite a few documents from Patricia's own nonprofit, 258 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: the National Women's Economic Alliance Foundation, which she described as 259 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: quote an organization that was formed to offer American women 260 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: a strong, positive alternative to the National Organization of Women 261 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: that hopes to spread the quote unquote good news about 262 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: free enterprise and business. From the mid eighties to about 263 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, there are several letters from Patricia Harrison 264 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: to the Tobacco Institute, the main front group of the 265 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: tobacco industry at the time, inviting them to be part 266 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: of various programs, asking them for money, inviting them to 267 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: various campaign events. In nineteen ninety six, the Harrisons sold 268 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: their firm and Patricia decided to run for co chair 269 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: of the Republican National Committee. 270 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 7: I was very interested in having a voice, and I 271 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 7: felt that the party needed to reach out to women 272 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 7: and minorities, and that's what I felt I could bring. 273 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 7: And I told I remember telling my husband, I'm going 274 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 7: to run for co chair. He ghost, yeah, yeah, but 275 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 7: in the meantime, we want you to spend off. Let's 276 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 7: spend off part of the company because we were selling it. 277 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 7: And we both thought, I have an opportunity just to 278 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 7: express my unvarnished views. 279 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: And that'll be it. 280 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 7: And the funny thing happened on the way to the forum. 281 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 7: I got elected, and I'm been standing They're thinking, oh 282 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 7: my goodness, now I am this, which. 283 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: Put her right into the two thousand presidential election. Having 284 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: spent twenty five years working with her husband to defeat 285 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: environmental regulations, Patricia was no fan of Al Gore's who 286 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: you'll remember was running against George W. Bush in that election. 287 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: Here she is ripping on Gore at an event the 288 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation hosted with popular conservative talk radio hosts. 289 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 7: You know, there's some sense that in Reagan, Carter Karda 290 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 7: won the debate winning meaning you're the brightest kid in 291 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 7: the classroom, and you can memorize and spew out the 292 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 7: telephone book. But then you're sitting back and saying, who 293 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 7: do I want my living room? For four years? And 294 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 7: I think, of course, I'm coming from a position of 295 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 7: extreme prejudice. They looked at Al Gore and just thought, 296 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 7: I'm going to be annoyed to death. 297 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, E Bruce is advising Rudder Finn, the giant PR 298 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: firm that bought Ebruce Harrison Company. He was still actively 299 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: shaping industri's approach to environmental issues, which he called greening, 300 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: and he started writing books and teaching classes on it too. 301 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: In addition to the cross industry coalition thing, he grabbed 302 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: onto the idea of the triple bottom line and really 303 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: really ran with it. Here's doctor brule again. 304 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 2: Certainly science misinformation campaigns are creating doubt about the science 305 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: was certainly a part of it, but also considering about 306 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 2: the costs of climate action and how much it's going 307 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 2: to cost, and what it would do to our economy, 308 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: and of course, by reference to that, the good life, 309 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: and we're all going to be paying taxes, being cold 310 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: in the dark, not driving our car, and they're going 311 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 2: to take away our Hamburgers. 312 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, Patricia's run as co chair 313 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: of the Republican National Committee came to an end and 314 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: she was offered a position in George W. Bush's State Department. 315 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: That's where we grabbed that bio that I read from earlier. 316 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting timing given what was happening with the Global 317 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: Climate Coalition that year. Here's Kurt Davies again. 318 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, so again we're talking about this memo. That's a 319 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 5: briefing memorandum for Secretary Undersecretary de Brionski at the State Department. 320 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 5: And then it says, interested in hearing from you, what 321 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 5: type of international alternatives to Kyoto would you support? The 322 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 5: reason being that they had caught so much stuff about 323 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 5: dropping Kyoto. The bush dumping Kyoto had generated a wave 324 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 5: of news around the world about the Climate Treaty, and 325 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 5: the US is leaving the Climate Treaty, so it actually 326 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 5: created more press than the treaty itself three years earlier, 327 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 5: four years earlier, so they needed an alternative. They knew 328 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 5: they had made a mistake. There was actually a major 329 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 5: debate inside the bushdministration between Colin Powell on one side, 330 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 5: with Christy Todd Whitman and Dick Cheney and a few 331 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 5: others on the other side about what to do, and 332 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 5: Christy Todd, Whitman and Colin Power saying, you stay in 333 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 5: the treaty and you move it to our needs, you 334 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 5: don't reject it. 335 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: That's fascinating because you know who goes to work for 336 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: Colin Powell right after this meeting is Patricia Harrison. 337 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 5: Wow, I did not know that. 338 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: Patricia Harrison was named an undersecretary in the State Department 339 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: in July two thousand and one, the month after this meeting. 340 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: She worked on educational and culture issues, creating and overseeing 341 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: international exchange student programs and the return of the Fulbright 342 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: program to Afghanistan and Iraq. It's hard to read about 343 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: that job and not think of E. Bruce's theory on 344 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: what any good PR person needs to know. 345 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 3: Culture influence things like Francis Fukuyama and what he teaches 346 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: the Johns Hopkins about what it takes to build trust, 347 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 3: and trust is built on understanding social capital in various 348 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,479 Speaker 3: countries and various cultures. So understanding culture, understanding behavior. I mean, 349 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 3: after all, we're out to influence behavioral change. 350 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: But it was Patricia's next job, the one she still has, 351 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: that came as a real shock. I think you're going 352 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: to be surprised too. We'll bring you that right after 353 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: this quick break. Okay, so last year I had the 354 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: great pleasure of being a guest on these stuff they 355 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: Don't Want you to Know podcast. Highly recommend it. They 356 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: basically take conspiracy theories, research the crap out of them, 357 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: and tell you what's what. Anyway, at the end, we 358 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: were chatting and one of the hosts, Matt Frederick, gave 359 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: me a hot tip. 360 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 8: Hey, Amy, this is a complete aside. If it's cool, 361 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 8: if you could indulge me just for one moment when 362 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 8: we were doing research for the show to have you 363 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 8: on our show, we were I was looking into E. 364 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 8: Bruce Harrison, learning about him because it was he's such 365 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 8: a fascinating character. Did you happen to come across who 366 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 8: his spouse is? Patricia to Stacy Harrison. Is that correct? 367 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 8: Do you know what her position is right now? And 368 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 8: maybe I'm getting this wrong, but the person, a person 369 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 8: named Patricia to Stacy Harrison is the president and chief 370 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 8: executive officer of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. 371 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: I didn't think this could possibly be true, but it is. 372 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: Patricia full name, Patricia to Stacy Harrison has been the 373 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: president and CEO of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting for 374 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: fifteen years. Here she is explaining what that organization does 375 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: in a c Span interview shortly after she got the job. 376 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 7: The corporation is the still word of the federal funding 377 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 7: for all of public television and public radio. We only 378 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 7: represent fifteen percent of that investment because these locally owned, 379 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 7: locally operated stations raised the other eighty five percent. But 380 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 7: it's a very important fifteen percent investment. 381 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: How much is that per year? 382 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,719 Speaker 7: Well, our budget is around four hundred million. 383 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: When the interviewer asks her about whether her role with 384 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: the RNC makes her too political for a job in 385 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: public media, she actually uses her time with the PR 386 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: firm as proof of how a political she is. 387 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 7: You know, every time they write about me, it's as 388 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 7: if I sprung full blown out of the head of 389 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 7: the Republican Party. I actually had a very successful business 390 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 7: for twenty years that was nonpartisan. It was about the 391 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 7: bottom line. 392 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: At the time that Harrison was brought on at the 393 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: Corporation for Public Broadcasting, there was an investigation into Ken Tomlinson, 394 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: who'd been appointed chairman of the Board for the Corporation 395 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: by George W. Bush. Tomlinson had been pretty open about 396 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: his goal to inject more conservative viewpoints into public media, 397 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: and he'd been trying to hire Harrison as part of that. 398 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: Tomlinson resigned when this report came out, but Harrison stayed 399 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: on in her role. That is just a horrible This 400 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: is Nicholas Nick Johnson. He was an FCC commissioner from 401 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six to nineteen seventy three, during the time 402 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: when the Corporation for Public Broadcasting was first formed. At 403 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: the time, he was something of a crusader for the 404 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: democratization of media and more public access to the airwaves. 405 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 9: I organized a picket line around the Corporation Broadcasting headquarters 406 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 9: with regard to who was being appointed to the board 407 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 9: of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and that it was 408 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 9: turning into a corporate and establishment board, and I wanted 409 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 9: somebody from the labor unions and some housewives and some 410 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 9: farmers and not all public figures. 411 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: In Johnson's opinion, Harrison's background should have disqualified her from 412 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: the position she now holds. 413 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 10: She should not have been appointed because of the appearance, 414 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 10: regardless of how wholesome she is and regardless of how 415 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 10: able she is to separate in her mind what she 416 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 10: does for the public relations firm to encourage faster climate 417 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 10: change and what she does as head of corporation for 418 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 10: public broadcasting devoted to trying to present facts on the issue. 419 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: Okay, so the person in charge of federal funding for 420 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 1: public media worked with front groups for the fossil fuel 421 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: and tobacco industries. Does it matter? Has it shifted coverage 422 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: in any demonstrable way? And how do we deal with 423 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: this sort of information? And knowing that there are various 424 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: forces attempting to influence the media constantly, what does the 425 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: media need to do to combat that influence? Can it? 426 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: These are all questions we're going to delve into next time. 427 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: Nick Johnson will be back to talk about some of 428 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: the ways he's seen media evolve and NYU professor and 429 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: media critic Jay Rosen will join us to talk about 430 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: what media outlets should be thinking about in our current 431 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: age of disinformation. Come back for that. Thanks for listening, 432 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week. Drilled is produced and 433 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: distributed by Critical Frequency. The show is reported, written and 434 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: produced by me Amy Westervelt. Our editor is Julia Ritchie. 435 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Our editorial advisor is Rika Murphy. Sound design and school 436 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: by b Beman. Katie Ross created the amazing artwork for 437 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: this season special thanks to our First Amendment attorney, James 438 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: Wheaton and the First Amendment Project. The clips you heard 439 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: in this episode of E. Bruce Harrison were from the 440 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: Arthur W. Page Center's Oral Histories Project. Clips of Patricia 441 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: Harrison are from c SPAN. Drilled is made possible in 442 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: part by a generous grant from the Institute for Governance 443 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: and Sustainable Development. We appreciate their support. You can find 444 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: Drilled wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to leave us 445 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: a rating or review. It really helps people find the show. 446 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: You could follow us on Twitter at we are Drilled 447 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: and visit our website drillednews dot com for more reporting 448 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: on this subject and behind the scenes stories from this season. 449 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.