1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: My mother lost her battle to cancer when she was 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: fifty six years old, and so here I am at 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: fifty seven. So my fifty seventh birthday was so important 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: because I wanted to reach and bypass that milestone. She 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: found out she had cancer right at the same age 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: that I did at. My name is Donna Otis. I 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: live in San Diego, California. I am a stage four 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: metastatic cancer fighter. How do I say this without crying? Um, 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: I'm a mom, I'm a single mom. I love life 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: and cancer will never define me. Hi. Everyone, I'm Katie 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: Curic and this is next question. You know, March maybe 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: calling cancer Awareness month, but as many of you know, 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: my mission has been to increase awareness of this second 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: leading cancer killer every day of the year. So we've 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: put together a special episode on this topic with the 16 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: hopes that it will motivate many of you to call 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: your doctor and get screened. As a lot of you 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: all know, my first husband, Jay died gosh twenty three 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: years ago. He had been diagnosed with stage four calling cancer. 20 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: He battled the disease for nine months and then died 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: at just forty two. I've been advocating for early detection 22 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: ever since I even got a colonoscopy on television. I'm 23 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: a little nervous that in our normal well today. I 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: wanted to see where we are in terms of research, detection, 25 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: and treatment, and also understand why our country still has 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: such vast health disparities that leave black of Americans more 27 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: susceptible to this disease than others. You'll be hearing from 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: two of the top scientists in this area a bit later, 29 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: but first I wanted to start with my friend Donna. 30 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: Early detection is so important. Donna Otis is the CEO 31 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: of a private golf club in San Diego, and a 32 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: couple of years ago we got to talking and I 33 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: learned about her calling cancer diagnosis and preparing for this episode. 34 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: I asked if she would be willing to share her story, 35 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: and she bravely agreed. I did not get a colonoscopy 36 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: at fifty. I did one of those um colonnaise, you know, 37 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: just kind of those quick tests, and nothing came up. 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: I was in San Francisco at the time. I was 39 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: fifty one, and I actually so not to get to graphic, 40 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: but it's reality. I had blood in my stool and 41 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: I got did eat something wrong? And so I did 42 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: the let the hospital know. They sent me a kit 43 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: and it came back negative. So I said okay. And 44 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: then fast forward another year and I was fifty two 45 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: and I noticed again it had stopped. And then I 46 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: noticed again, so I went back to the hospital and 47 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: they said, okay, try try another stool um sample. Tests 48 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: I did that came back negative. And then one day 49 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: in August two thousand eighteen, I just started to feel 50 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: like my stomach wasn't right um and I was in 51 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: some pain in the intestinal area. And then I said, well, 52 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: let me just go see and check it out. Go 53 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: to the doctors. And that's when they said, you know, 54 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: let's let's do a pollnoscopy. And you know when I 55 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: woke up and they said, h we see something in 56 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: a little strange um. Let's let's take a look at 57 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: it a little closer, and let's get a biopsy. And 58 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, it took a couple of months to get 59 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: all the biopsies and the tests done, and I, oddly enough, 60 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: I happened to be driving to Santa Barbara, UM with 61 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: with a friend of mine and you know, you can 62 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: open everything up on your on your chart. It's the 63 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: day and age of technology now you can opt not 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: to look at it and say I'm going to wait 65 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: until the doctor preasum into the office. But everything, your 66 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: test results, your CT scans, all of that comes right 67 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: to your phone now. And I opened it up in 68 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: clear as day, there's that word cancer. I put my 69 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: phone down and I didn't want to say anything, and 70 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: I opened it back up again, and not only was 71 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: it cancer, but it was labeled as stage three, and 72 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: I thought crap. I didn't want to call anybody. I 73 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: just wanted to try and digest it. And my I 74 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: went in to fight flight mode, like okay, what am 75 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: I going to do with my twenty two year old daughter? 76 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: She was twenty at the time, and how am I 77 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: going to take care of things? And that's just that 78 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: was my immediate reaction, like crap, I'm not ready. And 79 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: the appointments, biopsies and CT scans that followed, Donna got 80 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: more bad news. Sorry, it's now it has traveled to 81 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: your liver. And then the next blow after the full 82 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: um CT scan was well we think it's in your 83 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: lungs too, So um I said, okay, this really can't 84 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: be happening. So I went into this whole disbelief mode. UM, 85 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: and then being a single mom. You know, what am 86 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: I going to do with my job? And how am 87 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: I gonna live? You know, just all those things come 88 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: rushing through um, rushing through your head. And someone said 89 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: to me, you know, Donna, you really don't know how 90 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: strong you are until the only thing you can be 91 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: is strong. Donna's co workers and friends rallied around her. 92 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: She asked for help and gathered her village. Meanwhile, she 93 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: got her treatment plan, and before she knew it was 94 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: on the cancer diagnosis roller coaster ride. This started chemo 95 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: in December of two thousand eighteen, and then I did 96 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: chemo all the way through till September. Of My first 97 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: round of chemo was okay. UM. The second round, I 98 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: had a severe allergic reaction. I couldn't walk or talk. 99 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: You physically cannot touch anything remotely cold, not even a 100 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: door knob, this huge, painful, tingling sensation. My eyes completely 101 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: shut because of the nerve endings. You go like this 102 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: and you get a handful of hair. I couldn't take 103 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: care of myself. I really just wanted to die. I 104 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: think at that point I just said, okay, let's let's 105 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: pack it up. Let's let's get anything situated, let's get 106 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: a living will. And UM. I had those tough conversations 107 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: with my daughter to say, listen, UM, we're going to 108 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: fast track your life a little bit. You're going to 109 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: have to be an adult fairly quickly here, and you 110 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: forget about things like teaching your kid some of your 111 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: old mom's recipes. Um, you forget to teach your kid, 112 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: or you think about it like, well, I can always 113 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: teach her. You know how to sew a button on 114 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: a shirt. Donna found the strength as she has at 115 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: every turn, and the treatments continued. I went through radiation, 116 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: thirty rounds of radiation. Skin turn start extremely painful. After 117 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: you leave, you have to wear a pump for forty 118 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: eight hours. So you know, when you go to work 119 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: and you see the tube hanging and everyone's looking at 120 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: me like you're doing okay, And I said, don't feel 121 00:07:52,520 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: sorry for me, don't treat any different. I've gone through 122 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: two surgeries. Um. The first surgery was to remove part 123 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: of my liver, to remove my rectum. The post surgery 124 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: and waking up to this bag that is out of 125 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: your body and you can see your intestine which is 126 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: out of your body as well. Um, it's pretty difficult. 127 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: And the type of clothes you have to wear, you 128 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: can only wear certain very bad you know, loose and 129 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: baggy clothes, and you have to time your release of 130 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: your bag at a certain time because sometimes it could 131 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: just really blow up. But this I made this bag 132 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: define me. Um, and it took over me for for 133 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: about a year. Um, pretty feeling pretty sad, feeling sorry 134 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: for myself. But then um, but then my daughter said 135 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: to me, but Mom, you wake up every day on 136 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: this side of the world. Don't worry about the bag. 137 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: And then my second surgery was in November of to 138 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: do the reversal, meaning put my intestines back, get everything 139 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: all attached. And then after radiation, um, you know, you 140 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: do the surgery and then you go into chemo mode. Um. 141 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: And so after one chemo treatment your body gets sort 142 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: of immune to it, and then they shift you to another. 143 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: And then the other was another strong poisonous chemo that 144 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: reaked havoc um. But I had to do it, and 145 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: that almost left me with complete hair loss. And then 146 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: from there, you know, we're just fighting for time. And 147 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: so I got the final news was not the final news. 148 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: But the news was, Donna, you will never be cured 149 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: of cancer. You will have to do chemo for the 150 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: rest of your life until you pass. And we can't 151 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: determine whether it's two or three years. Um, it's hard 152 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: to say. And so you know, you keep on getting. 153 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: You know, you're like one of those um those toys 154 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: as a kid that's a plastic thing. It's got a 155 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: base and you keep on knocking it over, but it 156 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: stands right back up. Well, I felt like I was. 157 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: I was one of those um but I got right 158 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: back up because I had no choice. Recently, Donna got 159 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: the chance to join an immunotherapy trial, which marks a 160 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: new experimental face of treatment, one that's giving her and 161 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: everyone who loves her hope. We're going to see how 162 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: it goes. The doctor's like, hanging there, Let's just try 163 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: this immuno therapy, blast out that tumor and then uh, 164 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: and then we'll kind of take it from there. So 165 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: here I am today, and I'm gonna live till tomorrow, 166 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna keep on going. This May, Donna is 167 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: taking an important trip. She'll travel to Kentucky and watch 168 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: her daughter graduate from college. A huge emotional milestone for 169 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: both of them. That was what I was living for. 170 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: That was my first target was when they gave me 171 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: two years and I was like, crap, I won't be 172 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: able to see her graduate and that was in my head. 173 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: So um, so that's done pretty quick here in a 174 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: couple of months, and then my my next target is 175 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: is to to try and get to If I can 176 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: get to sixty years old, that would be. That would 177 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: be that's my next school. After after she graduates, we'll 178 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: be right back. We begins tonight with the sudden and 179 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: very tragic debt sending shot waves across the country devastating 180 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: and shocking news that actor Chadwick Boseman has died at 181 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: forty three after a valiant four year fight. Chadwick Boseman 182 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: lost his battle with colon cancer Friday. For four years, 183 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: Chadwick Boseman had been quietly fighting colon cancer, making something 184 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: like seven films while enduring countless surgeries and chemotherapy. When 185 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: the Black Panther actor died in August of it was 186 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: devastating to those who loved him, as well as his 187 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: legion of fans. It's not just a loss that we're 188 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: feeling we're going to feel his absence. His absence, but 189 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: his death at such a young age also put colon 190 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: cancer and some grave statistics in the spotlight. One that 191 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: more young people are being diagnosed with colon cancer than 192 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: ever before, and two that Black Americans are more likely 193 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: to get colorectal cancer and more likely to die from it. 194 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: Black Americans have the highest colorectal cancer incidents and mortality 195 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: rates of all racial and ethnic groups in the United States. 196 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: Dr Edith Mitchell is a professor and oncologist at the 197 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: Sydney Kimmel Cancer Center at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. 198 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: We asked her why why is the black community hit 199 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: hardest by this disease? So nobody knows for sure. What 200 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: is known is there is a word called red lining. 201 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: Holic is on loans and the sale of properties, so 202 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: that Blacks were relegated to certain parts of the city 203 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: where there may have in a higher number of factories 204 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: and other carcinogens, as well as poor water quality and 205 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: other socioeconomic conditions called the social determinants of health. There 206 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: were fewer healthcare facilities, lack of supermarkets, drug stores, and 207 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: other components of the healthcare arena. When I tell patients 208 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: that I want them to eat fresh fruits and vegetables, 209 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: but there are none nearby where they live, that's a 210 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: social determinant of health. And consequently, all of these components 211 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: contribute to the development of cancers. So if we're going 212 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: to as a country change healthcare display charities, we really 213 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: need to focus on not only the disease process and medications, 214 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: but on lifestyle that contributes to who we are. We 215 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: are who we eat, and consequently, one zip code determines 216 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: more effectively and more accurately how long you will live, 217 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: as opposed to your genetic code, which you inherit from 218 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: your parents. So we've got to change that so that 219 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: our zip code is not the greatest determining factor on 220 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: the disease processes that are experienced in a community, as 221 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: well as the duration of life. Dr Mitchell says it's 222 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: important to highlight the fact that black men are forty 223 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: seven percent more likely to die from calling cancer, partly 224 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: because they are still not getting screened at the same rates. 225 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: Is culture. There is also the history the Tuskegee study 226 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: had only black men, it was not discussed with them, 227 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: and therefore they passed on the disease to other sexual 228 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: partners and therefore put really three generations at risk. So 229 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: black men have a history of mistrust, and one thing 230 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: that we have to instill in people is trust of 231 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: the health care system. Black men prefer going to black doctors, 232 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: and yet for the United States of practicing clinicians in 233 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: only five percent we're black. Yet blacks constitute of the 234 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: United States population. So therefore we need to develop more 235 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: diverse clinicians so that there is a greater percentage of 236 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: Blacks in the population. With so few black doctors, black 237 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: patients don't always get the care they deserve. Implicit bias 238 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: are Explicit bias really affects the interaction between the patient 239 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: and the physician as well as others on the healthcare team, 240 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: so that we need to understand people who are different 241 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: or who may look different from us, and we have 242 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: to learn how to communicate effectively with all patients. It's 243 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: well recognized that in many clinical situations that black patients 244 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: and other minority patients are treated differently. For example, there 245 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: are studies that show that physicians and other clinicians spend 246 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: less time in a examination room with a black patient 247 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: as opposed to a white patient are to someone who 248 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: doesn't speak English as their primary language. There was also 249 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: a study UH and several studies showing that black patients 250 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: did not receive the recommendations for treating an options as 251 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: white patients. For example, patients who had stage one lung 252 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: cancer were offered different recommend nations and not surgery as 253 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: often as white patients. And of course there could have 254 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: been other reasons, but for stage one lung cancer, surgery 255 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: is the major treatment and can be curative. Yet the 256 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: black patients were not offered surgery. Black patients are offered 257 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: clinical trials less frequently, and in many cases it's the 258 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: implus said bias with the assumption that black patients won't participate. 259 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: So while you understand that there can be individual bias 260 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: in health care delivery, there can also be institutional bias. 261 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: So we really have to approach all of those topics 262 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: to make sure that we have the three sixty that 263 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: is a full circle of all of the potential areas 264 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: where we can intervene to improve healthcare delivery. A new 265 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: test is not going to change red lining are the 266 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: lack of supermarkets and other potential components of the atmosphere. 267 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: It's not going to get rid of the factories and 268 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: the exhaust We've got to look at the whole picture 269 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: and make sure that individuals living in certain zip codes 270 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: are not disenfranchised from a good healthcare arena, that they 271 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: have a good place to live, and making sure that 272 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: the overall community is healthy. And therefore we've got to 273 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: change some of the social determinants of health so that 274 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: everybody has equal opportunity to live in a healthy environment 275 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: and a healthy neighborhood. We have a moral imperative to 276 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: fix this. Dr Charlie Fuchs is an oncologist who is 277 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 1: now leading the hematology and oncology team at the biotech 278 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: firm genem Tech. And it starts on many fronts, which 279 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: is making sure that these communities have the proper access 280 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: to information, education, nutrition, prevention, care, and I frankly, access 281 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: to clinical trials. You know, we talked about how low 282 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: the rate is in the US of patients in general 283 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: participating in clinical trials. You know, you look at all 284 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: these trials across the realm and it's five eight percent, 285 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: maybe ten percent African American. Well, we got to fix that, right, 286 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: I mean, because I was involved in a study because 287 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: the common perception and in fact is that Black Americans 288 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: diagnosed with calin cancer who get treated have a worse outcome. 289 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: And so what we did is we looked at a 290 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: large clinical trial database that enrolled African Americans and whites. 291 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: And as you know, within a clinical trial, everything is prescribed, 292 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: the treatment, the follow up, everything, because you've got to 293 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: follow the menu because it's a clinical trial. And in 294 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: the context of that clinical trial, there's no difference between 295 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: white Americans and Black Americans, meaning that there is no 296 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: biologic difference, and if they get access to proper care, 297 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: they do just as well. So it's a moral imperative. 298 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: The fix here is not complicated. It's access to care, 299 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: it's access to education, it's all the things that are 300 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: plainly obvious. When we come back, we'll have more with 301 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: Dr Charlie Fuchs. We'll talk about the COVID effect on 302 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: cancer screening as well as new research and treatment. That's 303 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: right after this. I've known Dr Charlie Fuchs for a 304 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: few years now. He's a trusted and respected oncologist who 305 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: has worked with us at Stand Up to Cancer. He 306 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: was the director of the Yale Cancer Center, but he 307 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: recently made the jump to the research and product development 308 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: end of the health spectrum at the biotech firm Genete 309 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: Tech in San Francisco. So he is I think the 310 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: perfect person to sit down and talk about where we 311 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: are now with colon cancer and what the future looks like. 312 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: Here we are after the pandemic or on the verge 313 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: of being post pandemic, and so many people did not 314 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: get screened and that is translating to a lot of 315 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: cancer deaths if we don't really sound the alarm. So 316 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: are you concerned about this period of time and about 317 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: people putting off screening and what is the impact of that? No, Katy, 318 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm really concerned. The fact is is that if 319 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: every year American Cancer Society puts out the cancer statistics 320 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: for the year, you know cancer in particular. Last January 321 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: was cancer statistics, and you know, as you know, in January, 322 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: we didn't know what we were about to get ourselves 323 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: into with the pandemic. And I was actually interviewed um 324 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: about the statistics in January which showed this progressive decline 325 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: in cancer mortality decline and cancer incidents, and one of 326 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: those was colon cancer. Right, We've made so much strides 327 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: over the past three decades with early detection, with treatment, UM, 328 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 1: with understanding the genetics and UM. You know, we were 329 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: looking forward to continue declines. We're clearly not going to 330 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: see that next year because the data are compelling. For instance, 331 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: study showed that in the first three months of the pandemic, 332 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: there was an eighty percent drop in cancer screening. So 333 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: we're at of where we would have been the year before, 334 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: and you just don't rapidly recover from that. And I 335 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: can tell you, you know, what are we seeing. We're 336 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: seeing people not getting screened. We're gonna be seeing sadly, 337 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: people who are now presenting with cancer colon cancer at 338 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: later stages, and we're going to see a backtrack. I 339 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: don't think, you know, I think we need to be 340 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: prepared for that reality. And what we have to do 341 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: is just focus on what can we do today, which 342 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: is returned to screening. And as you know, the American 343 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: Cancer Society, a number of organizations, even the Biden administration 344 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: is now pushing that, and we have to remind people 345 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: that it is safe to go back, that it's safe 346 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: to get screened, that patients who are concerned about symptoms 347 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: need to follow up with their doctor. Patients who are 348 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: being treated for cancers shouldn't hesitate to get get their 349 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: therapy on time in its full course. And these are 350 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: the things that we have to do, while at the 351 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: same time we have to make sure that we enable 352 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: all our researchers to continue their work despite all the 353 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: complications of the pandemic. You should get your first calling 354 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: oscarpy or your first calling cancer screen at at age five, 355 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: according to the American Cancer Society and other organizations. Um, 356 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: why was that lowered? That's exactly right, And just to 357 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: be clear clear, it's age forty five for an averageous 358 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: person because we could talk about what happens if we 359 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: have a family history, which should be younger. But um, 360 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: it was fifty, and why is it now forty five? 361 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: Because as you know, there's this very alarming trend of 362 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: an increase in younger people with calling cancer that is 363 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: under fifty, under forty and there's only speculation as why 364 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: that is. But it's rising at a rate faster than 365 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: probably any other cancer that is calling cancer under age fifty. So, 366 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: thank goodness, various organizations, American Cancer Society among others, have 367 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: now reduced it and hopefully that will have an impact. 368 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: But this trend is alarming. It's alarming, and it's also 369 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: sort of maddening that you all, no offense, Charlie, haven't 370 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: figured it out why this is happening. I mean, I 371 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: know there's a lot of people studying this. This has 372 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: been going on for a couple of years now, and 373 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: why are we closer to understanding why this is happening. 374 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: I've heard obesity, you know, for years that that was 375 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: one of the culprits. But it seems to me there 376 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: must be other things going on here, and what's taking 377 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: so long to figure it out. I think it's a 378 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: fair criticism. I think part of it is obesity. Now, 379 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: when I say that, when I give a lecture to 380 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: allay audience, I will tell you invariably I people appropriately 381 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: come up to me at the end of my talk 382 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: and say, much like you mentioned earlier, you know, my 383 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: relative who was diagnosed at a young age was not obese. 384 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: So I'm not suggesting to you that obesity is the 385 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: only explanation. But I think we have to recognize and 386 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: not to not the fact that obesity is a real 387 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: risk factor for this malignancy. That there's no question that 388 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: child had. Obesity is an issue and has been an 389 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: issue over the past several decades in this country that 390 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: has to be dealt with, but it's not the only answer. 391 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: We recently completed analysis and I will tell you it's complicated. 392 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: It's a very the people under age fifty with colon cancer, 393 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: it is a very heterogeneous group, and we're trying to 394 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: look at the subsets understand the genetics. Part of it 395 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: is I think genetically driven, there's no question. Part of 396 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: it I think has died and lifestyle and then there's 397 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: an element we have to sort out. And I don't 398 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: deny the fact that we have some catching up to do. 399 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: In the meantime, I think, what can we do. We 400 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: can make sure we're taking excellent family histories at the 401 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: primary care setting, right. I mean the problem is when 402 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: I take a family history and I'm an oncologist, that's 403 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: too late. Right. That needs to happen at the primary 404 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: care setting, right before any cancer. Definitely we need to 405 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: do that. We need to work on obesity. We got 406 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: to get screening earlier, and let's be let's be honest 407 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: with ourselves. You know this because you authored the Katie 408 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: Curic effect for colin oscarpies. Getting people who are older 409 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: to get colin oscary was work. It's not going to 410 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: be easy to get younger people to do it, and 411 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: that's something we got to work on. I want to 412 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: talk about screening in just a minute. But you know, 413 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: are there any other theories that are being studied right now? 414 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: I remember uh that there was some thought that it 415 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: might be the over prescription of antibiotics that might somehow 416 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: affect gut health or inflammation. What are what are scientists 417 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: looking at as possibilities? Because, um, when you say genetic, 418 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily just mean a family history of colon cancer. 419 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: It could be a family history of other glandular cancers. 420 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: To write, you know, if you have a history of 421 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: breast cancer, for example, Jay, my late husband's mom had 422 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: ovary and his grandmother had breast and there may be 423 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: some kind of length between all these cancers. Are among 424 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: all these cancers and a family correct? Absolutely, that's a 425 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: great point. I think what we're realizing is we started 426 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: with what were the means that we were decidedly in 427 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: the biology of colon cancer, and we are that we've 428 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: been identifying those genes, but we've now realized to your point. 429 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: We did an analysis looking at the broca genes the 430 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: breast cancer genes and found that potentially four and a 431 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: half percent of colon cancers were associated with that gene, 432 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: which isn't on the list. And so we really need 433 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: to think, we have to really question our assumptions about 434 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: these genes and realize, yeah, if somebody's got a distinct 435 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: family history of of colon cancer of of breast cancer, 436 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: rather that colin's now probably on the list. And then 437 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: there are there are sort of subtle genes, not these 438 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: sort of high press penagence genes, these genes that you 439 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: know are at risk, but genes that are a little 440 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: more subtle in their effect that probably account for a 441 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: lot of this. And not to get in the weeds, 442 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: but genes like check two and some of the others 443 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: that get talked about. That's these genes are probably accounting 444 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: for a substantial number of colon cancers. We're just not 445 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: fully appreciating this. So we have our work cut out 446 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: in terms of understanding the genes. And you know, I 447 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: was going to say, there are a lot of genes 448 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: that just haven't been discovered, right, that are floating around 449 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: people's biologies and we just just don't know what they 450 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: are and the role they might play in cancer. But 451 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: but what are what are some of the things that 452 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: you're looking at and other people like you, Charlie, are 453 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: looking at in terms of this alarming increase among young people. Well, 454 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: we're doing very large population studies and we're obviously getting 455 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: lifestyle data, we're getting family history data, we're characterizing the 456 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: tumors genetically. We're at the same time also trying to 457 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: understand um the outcome is it is it a different disease? 458 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: And we actually have an analysis that we're hoping to 459 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: publish in the next several months about all some of 460 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: these things. So we I don't have an answer, I 461 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: think that, but I will tell you in our last 462 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: analysis what was abundantly clear is this is a mix 463 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: of causes of calm cancer. And I think part of 464 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: the reason, Katie, we don't have an answer is because 465 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: there isn't going to be one answer here. There's gonna 466 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: be several. And that is the lesson in cancer, Right, 467 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: It's not one disease, it's probably a hundred diseases and 468 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: in a hundred different well really millions of diseases, and 469 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: million different different biologies, and I think that's one thing, right, 470 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: is so the way I react to or I don't 471 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: even like to talk in the hypothetical, but the way 472 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: one person reacts to maybe uh, potential cancer or sell 473 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: mutation or something happening that kicks off camp cancer in 474 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: his or her body is a lot different than the 475 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: other person's biology. So it's really this delicate interplay between 476 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: the disease and the host, if you will write the 477 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: host organism. Oh, absolutely, you know, And we had I 478 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: was talking to something about this recently. We did a 479 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: study because let me just track back. You know, there 480 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,479 Speaker 1: are people who will tell you who get colon cancer 481 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,919 Speaker 1: who said, I don't understand this. I had a colonoscopy 482 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: less than five years ago, and how could that be? 483 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: Was there a mistake? This is a real phenomenon. So 484 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: we actually did a study, Katie, of cancers that we're 485 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: diagnosed less than five years after a colonoscopy. And I 486 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: don't want to alarm people with that or tell them 487 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: not to get the colonosopy, because it works, but it's 488 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: not perfect. And when we look at those cancers that 489 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: happened within five years of a colonoscopy, they are biologically different. 490 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: They're different in terms of the appearance they're they're flatter, 491 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: they're hard to see, and they have different genetic ideologies, 492 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: different genetic underpinnings. And so to your point, each of 493 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: these cancers, in this case col is it's a Schmoor 494 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: gess Bourg of genetic diseases. And that's the opportunity, right 495 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: If long as we're prepared to say, hey, you know what, 496 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm willing to develop a therapy where it's only going 497 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: to work for five of calling cancer. Admittedly as peculiar 498 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: as that sounds, if we know what that five is, 499 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: we're gonna make real progress, you know, Charlie. For so 500 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: long I was the colonoscopy queen, and I still believe 501 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: colonoscopies are the gold standard for detecting and treating and 502 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: preventing colorectal cancer. But a lot of people can't afford them. 503 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: A lot of people aren't getting them. One in three 504 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: people are not getting any kind of tests, you know, 505 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: when they're when their age appropriate in this case forty five. 506 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: What about some of these other tests. I've been working 507 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: with Exact Sciences, for example, a little bit on their 508 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: at home stool tests. And you know, one of the 509 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: things I realized is best test is actually the one 510 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: that gets done. So can you talk to us a 511 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: little bit about the differences between some of these like 512 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: fecal occult blood tests and fit tests and um these 513 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: at home tests, and if you feel comfortable for certain 514 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: people recommending them. Absolutely, I mean I think to your point, 515 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: people just have to get screened, because I think the 516 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: latest statistic, Katie, is that about sixty percent of people 517 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: who should be screened for colon cancer aren't. Wow, so 518 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: it's much higher than I thought. Yeah, so you know 519 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: roughly about you know, people are not getting screened. We 520 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: should be screened. Oh I was right, I said that. Sorry, Yeah, 521 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: so it's it's um But you know, the third of 522 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: the population not getting screened is a problem, and that's 523 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: of any test. And to your point, there are a 524 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: panoply of tests. Colin Oscarby saves lives. It's an important test, 525 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: it's safe. And I'm just gonna be clear, if if 526 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: you have access to colin ouspy and everyone should, that's 527 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: what you should do. And I think you taught this 528 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: nation and Frank of the world of value a lesson 529 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: by volunteering to do that on television. And that's for me, 530 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: that's the lesson. If somebody is gonna ask me what tests, 531 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: that's it. And I just you know, I got a 532 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: call in ouspy during the pandemic, because, like you, I 533 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: want to send a message that it's safe to be 534 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: screened and it's important. But if you can't, there are 535 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: other tests. One is, we know that calling cancer is 536 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: a disease of genetic mutations in the tumor, and those 537 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: those cells shed into the stool, and so you could 538 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: detect those mutations in the stool, and so Exact Sciences, 539 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: among other places, have now developed tests where you can 540 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: detect the mutation in the stool using very sensitive techniques. 541 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: And I think it's it's a good test. It's an 542 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: at home test, particularly important in the middle of a pandemic. 543 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: It picks up a substantial number of colon cancers, not 544 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: all of them. It's not great for picking up polyps, 545 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: which is, as you know, the precursor. And frankly, what 546 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 1: do we really want to find with a colonospy. We 547 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: don't want to find a cancer. We want to find 548 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: a polyp and remove the polyp, right, So you don't 549 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: get cancer. And to be the other aspect of the 550 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: test of the stool is whether it be mutations or 551 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 1: testing for blood in the stool or things like that. 552 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: If it's positive, well you still have to get a colonoscopy. 553 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: So I think people should be aware of the fact that, yes, 554 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: you can do the DNA test, and that's great because 555 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: we want you to get a test whatever it is. 556 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: You're prepared to do it, but if it's positive, you 557 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: gotta get their colonoscopy, right, But it could weed out 558 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: people who maybe are nervous about getting a colonospy or 559 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: don't have access to it, or can't afford it right, 560 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: or don't don't have health insurance, and it could weed 561 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: out those people. So they know, well, I'm okay for 562 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: now at least, right, but you're right to be able 563 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: to remove a polyp is ideal And in the middle 564 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: of a pandemic, we have to be thinking about home testing, 565 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 1: right because right now our health systems are extremely text 566 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: We're trying to reduce congestion in clinics, right, we have to. 567 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm a proponent of whatever tests you can get, 568 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: but um, when we're all back to normal and we're 569 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: all vaccinated. Katie, I'm gonna be on my you know, 570 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: on my soapbox, get a colonoscopy. I'm thrilled that we're 571 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: working on DNA detection technologies for calling cancer. And listen, 572 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: I hope that, you know, Dr McCoy comes out with 573 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 1: this tri quarter and that's that's gonna be the test. 574 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, it's still a calling scarp. Are 575 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: we any closer to better treatments for people who do 576 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: have pulling cancer that is advanced, maybe stage three or 577 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: even stage four, which was Jay's situation when he was diagnosed. 578 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: It was all over his liver and it was on 579 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,959 Speaker 1: the march north to his long and then the back 580 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: of his eye and to his brain, and as you 581 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: can imagine, it was harrowing. I was so livid that 582 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: the treatment he received was the same treatment that had 583 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: been around since the fifties, five of you and LUKEA. Warren, 584 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: and I was really really frustrated by that that was 585 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: twenty three years ago. Are there better uh chemotherapeutic agents? 586 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: Are there? Is there any progress being made in immunotherapy, 587 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: which is helping people in so many other cancers, or 588 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: and monoclonal antibodies, and all the different kind of approaches 589 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: is monoclonal antibodies the same as immunotherapy, Charlie, are different. 590 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: Immunotherapy is one of the approaches of using monoclon out 591 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: of bodies, but there are much broader approaches. But let 592 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: me just step back, Katie and say, look, Um, given 593 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: the tragedy that you and your family went through with Jay, 594 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: it's so admirable of what you decided to do and 595 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: take on this cause and the wake of that, and 596 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: and you've made a big difference and I hope you 597 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: know that on so many different fronts in terms of 598 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: funding cancer research, in terms of building awareness and getting 599 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: people to screen. I mean you, you've done it all 600 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: and we owe you a lot for that, particularly in 601 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: the wake of what was such a challenging time for 602 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: you and the family and what Jay went through. But 603 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: I do think we've made progress. Now. That was twenty 604 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,959 Speaker 1: three years ago, and I would say at a real 605 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: inflection point in colon cancer that people should you are 606 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: where is? It was two thousand four And in two 607 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: thousand four, Um, the first of a series of mono 608 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: clone l antibodies came out, which was a drug that 609 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: actually realized that you could block the blood supply to 610 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: tumors and impact therapy. That's it. That isn't that an 611 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 1: anti anchio genesis? Are you talking about a baston? You're good, Katie, 612 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: Maybe you should be Maybe I should be interviewing you. 613 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: It was approved for calling cancer and it was a 614 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: game changer, um and and and it was a game 615 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: changer in so many different fronts. Firstly, one, it opened 616 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: up a field which is blocking the blood supply matter, 617 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: which opened up a litany of investigation. This works due 618 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: to Falkman's original work. Ultimately the drug developed by Jennet Tech. 619 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: And but but not only that, it was really the 620 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: move to biologics, right because you know this because five 621 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: floor URSL was the only drug. And what we learned was, 622 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: you know what beyond andered cytotoxic chemotherapy, cell killing chemotherapies. 623 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,840 Speaker 1: By understanding the biology, we can develop drugs that target 624 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: the biology of monoclonals. Because of Aston, as you know, 625 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: is a monoclone lantibar. Will you explain for our listeners, 626 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: because I actually could use a refresher what exactly you 627 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: mean when you say a monoclonal antibody. Absolutely, So we 628 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,439 Speaker 1: make we all make antibodies to block infection. And these 629 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: are little molecules that are coded to cover the target 630 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: the surface of something, be at a bacteria or some 631 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: other microorganism that shouldn't be in our bodies, right, somebody 632 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, something that affects us. But what people realize 633 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: is you could develop antibodies in the lab that, instead 634 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: of targeting a bacteria, can to target some other surface 635 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: that's relevant to cancer, be at the surface of a 636 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: cancer cell, or the surface of a molecule that stimulates 637 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: blood supply for tumors. And so what a vast it is. 638 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: It's an antibody that's designed in the lab that targets 639 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: a molecule that makes that helps cancers develop a blood supply. 640 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: So it essentially grabs it, blocks it degrades it, and 641 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: um so you take that away from the cancer. The 642 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: cancer is now starved. If it's blood supply, it's It 643 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: was really revolutionary at the time, but what did it do. 644 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: It essentially tripled the longevity of people with metastatic advanced 645 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: calling cancer. Tripled it and it's still not where we 646 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 1: want to be. We still have a long ways to go. 647 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: But you know, Katie, to your point earlier, when I 648 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: first started this field a long time ago, longer than 649 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: I could or admit. When I would meet a new 650 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: patient and family with advanced calling cancer, I would look 651 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: at the patient and in my mind, I think, you know, 652 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: what if if I have this person sitting in my 653 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,080 Speaker 1: office a year from now and feeling good, that's an 654 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,319 Speaker 1: accomplishment that I'll be glad I could get to. And 655 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm not joking. That was my aspiration because the average 656 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,839 Speaker 1: survival for a new patient with colon cancer when I 657 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: started this game was nine to ten months, which is ridiculous, 658 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: totally inadequate. And so you know, we're a lot longer now, 659 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: but we got a ways to go. And each of 660 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,240 Speaker 1: these incremental steps teaches us about how do we leverage 661 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: the biology, how do we develop new therapy. So we 662 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: now have multiple antibodies hitting different targets. We have I think, 663 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 1: new drugs that are focused on really what was the 664 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 1: biologic target as opposed to some random drug off the shelf. 665 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: And we also know that calling cancer is not one disease, 666 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,280 Speaker 1: but a subset of diseases where there's a specific gene 667 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: gene that's driving in we're targeting that dreen gene. Now, 668 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: the the major advances that really we saw this tripling 669 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: of survival in colon cancer and advanced calling cancer was 670 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: really I would say between two thousand and four and 671 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. And I'll be honest, I think we've 672 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: languished a little bit since then because you mentioned immunotherapy, 673 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: which is a different type of monoclaudal that activates our 674 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: immune system, which has frankly revolutionized cancer therapy, truly revolutionized 675 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: lung cancer, melanoma, variety of difficulty treat cancers. However, that 676 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: approach works for four of calling cancer patients don't benefit 677 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: from it. Why because somehow the calling cancers are hostile 678 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: to our immune system, and we got to figure out 679 00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: how to convert those cancers to being more a menable, 680 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 1: more inviting to our immune system such that we can 681 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: leverage these drugs to attack the cancer. But why has 682 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: it been so successful in other cancers? What is it 683 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: about colorectal cancer that makes immunotherapy less effective? So I 684 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: think the other thing we've learned over the past two 685 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,439 Speaker 1: decades is we used to only focus on the cancer cell. 686 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,359 Speaker 1: But if you look at a tumor under the microscope. 687 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: It's not just cancer cells. It's a variety of cells, 688 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: imune cells, other types of cells that the cancer in 689 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,839 Speaker 1: some respects are recruiting for their own benefit. Now, one 690 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: of those is our blood vessels, right, the cancer is 691 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: recruiting blood vessels. What else is it recruiting. Colon cancer 692 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: is clearly recruiting cells, our own cells that suppress an 693 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: immune response. And it might see simple, well, let's just 694 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,800 Speaker 1: turn in those cells off, but it's not so simple 695 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: how we do it. We don't fully understand how colon 696 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: cancer recruits those cells to the tumor and how we 697 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: turn that signal off. But I think we're a lot 698 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: closer in understanding that there's a number of new targets, 699 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,960 Speaker 1: new drugs to do that that hopefully we then combine 700 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: with the immunotherapies to make them work. So stay tuned. 701 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,280 Speaker 1: I I you know, I've been doing this for a while. 702 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm really optimistic of what this decade is going to 703 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: do in cancer in general, but I think in colon cancer, 704 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: because I think we're on the precipice now of taking 705 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: these understandings of immunotherapy, of the of the micro environment 706 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: within a tumor beyond the cancer cell within understanding biologics 707 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: with targeted therapies, with genetics, and that's like, isn't that 708 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,280 Speaker 1: epigenetics sort of the coding on the cell itself, right, 709 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: that that sometimes protects the cell from the medication. Right, 710 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: it's weird. It's like the cell has a little survival 711 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: mechanism that's hard to penetrate. Well, there's that, and there's 712 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,760 Speaker 1: that because these are cells that are able to mutate. 713 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: They are even when therapies work, the cells figure out 714 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: how to become resistant. They develop in a second, third, 715 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,959 Speaker 1: fourth mutation, which I know seems almost impossible to beat. 716 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: It's like whack a mole. But it's we Actually, I 717 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: think our understanding the underlying processes like epigenetics as you 718 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,280 Speaker 1: describe it, where I think we can beat it. Um 719 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 1: You know, cancer is the great challenge of the twenty 720 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: one century. You know, in the beginning of the last 721 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: century was infectious disease, which is how ironic is we're 722 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of a pandemic now. But once we 723 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: get past this, because we've done so much to eliminate 724 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: infectious disease as the major killer of Americans, it's now cancer, 725 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: and I really feel like we are poised to truly 726 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: make a difference. Before we wrap up, I wanted to 727 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 1: end with some thoughts from my friend Donna. After the 728 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: colonoscopy and during the testing phase and biopsy and all, 729 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 1: the doctor said that that tumor had to have been 730 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: growing for the past two years, that it wasn't a 731 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: young tumor. It was a tumor that was about two 732 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 1: years old. So I just know from a personal experience 733 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,799 Speaker 1: that I should have at fifty gone in and got 734 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 1: my connoscope. That's the lesson learned. So for those that 735 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: are listening or however way the message is delivered, early 736 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:48,719 Speaker 1: detection is going to be a lifesaver. It truly is 737 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,839 Speaker 1: going to be a lifesaver. So, UM, I encourage you all. 738 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if it's forty five, as soon as you 739 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: go on your birthday, if you have to when you 740 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 1: turn forty, go get the test um. But you know, 741 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,720 Speaker 1: but I'm I'm not going to look back, because um, 742 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: that's not that's not the message. The messages is that 743 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,040 Speaker 1: I've learned a lot and I can help those that 744 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: are going through it. Um and the messages go get 745 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: tested and if you're nervous about getting a colonoscopy. Well, 746 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,320 Speaker 1: I've had a few, and I'm telling you it's really 747 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,520 Speaker 1: not that bad. And I've got an insider scoop on 748 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: the best way to prep. Back when I did my 749 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: first colonoscopy, gosh, twenty one years ago, I had to 750 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: drink this gallon of nasty, salty, chalky, cherry flavored water. 751 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,840 Speaker 1: I put on a pretty good show for all of you. 752 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 1: M looking forward to it. Here goes nothing, but it 753 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: was terrible. What I didn't show in the pieces. I 754 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,399 Speaker 1: actually threw up the last glass all over my kitchen floor. 755 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: So instead it's your favorite flavor of Gatorade with Mary Lax. 756 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:13,759 Speaker 1: Donna agrees, I'll do that again. H recommend. Thank you 757 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,439 Speaker 1: again to all my guests today. Donna otis Dr Edith 758 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,279 Speaker 1: Mitchell and Dr Charlie Fuchs. Now you all know what 759 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,400 Speaker 1: to do. Talk to your doctor and go get tested. 760 00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I 761 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 1: Heart Media and Katie Kurk Media. The executive producers Army, 762 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 1: Katie Couric and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. 763 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:53,799 Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements Adriana Fassio and Emily Pinto. The 764 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,399 Speaker 1: show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more 765 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: information about today's episode, or to sign up for my 766 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie currect dot com. 767 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: You can also find me at Katie Courrect on Instagram 768 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from 769 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 770 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,