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Speaker 1: points really good. All right. John Middlecoff, it's time for
Speaker 1: our hour plus on a Sunday. He is the former
Speaker 1: NFL scout for the Philadelphia Eagles three and Out podcasts.
Speaker 1: All right, I want to talk. Listen to Ohio State.
Speaker 1: Should have put Penn State away earlier, but they're the
Speaker 1: better team USC Lincoln Riley's now twelve and twelve again,
Speaker 1: they lead late and lose Oregon. Thump's Michigan. I think
Speaker 1: we've spent so much time looking at Texas and Georgia
Speaker 1: and Bama and Ohio State, and last year in Michigan,
Speaker 1: I watched Oregon this weekend. I'm not sure what they're
Speaker 1: not good at like. I'm like, I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1: The more I watch Oregon, the more I like him.
Speaker 1: The more I watch Ohio State, the less I like them.
Speaker 1: I feel like Ohio State offensively, John has a bit
Speaker 1: of an identity crisis. They want to run the ball
Speaker 1: because they've been criticized for not running it. But their
Speaker 1: best players are all wide receivers. And then combine that
Speaker 1: with Will Howard just isn't as good as we thought
Speaker 1: he was going to be. I figured I watched them
Speaker 1: at Kansas State. I thought, you know what, he's getting
Speaker 1: all these receivers. He may win a Heisman. He's just
Speaker 1: he's a good college quarterback. I don't see any special
Speaker 1: And every time I watch Ohio State, I'm like, they
Speaker 1: leave points on the table. It just doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: I watched Oregon. Oregon is squeezing every fricking ounce of
Speaker 1: talent out of that roster. I mean to go on
Speaker 1: the road in college, even though Michigan's not great, and
Speaker 1: just kick the shit out of them. I mean, the
Speaker 1: game wasn't even as close as thirty eight to seventeen.
Speaker 1: I just don't think we're ready to embrace this. People
Speaker 1: outside of the West Coast. Don't understand Oregon's dominated Southern
Speaker 1: California recruiting in the Pac twelve for about eight years.
Speaker 1: They just get the best players. They pay for him,
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I think I think Oregon's the
Speaker 1: best team I've seen.
Speaker 2: I want to hate Ohio State. I actually thought that
Speaker 2: was a pretty impressive game yesterday because I thought they
Speaker 2: shoved around Penn State. They made the big plays when
Speaker 2: they had to. I mean, Penn State Classic just blew
Speaker 2: in the red zone. I mean Ohio State is missing
Speaker 2: multiple offensive linemen. I think they had a guy started
Speaker 2: left tackle and left guard that had never even played
Speaker 2: in the position, So they're moving guys around. I'm with
Speaker 2: you on the quarterback, but when you look, it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't love George's quarterback. You know, Dylan Gabriel can
Speaker 2: throw the ball. I have more faith in him than
Speaker 2: those guys. But he's kind of small and against a
Speaker 2: big time defense. Could he be knocked out or whatever?
Speaker 2: But I hear yeah, I mean I think Oregon. If
Speaker 2: you had to pick a team to win the national
Speaker 2: Championship as we sit here today, it would be Oregon.
Speaker 2: But if Ohio State gets healthy like, I mean, their talent,
Speaker 2: that safety that they got from Alabama, they basically just
Speaker 2: put him on forty four. Who you know, that guy
Speaker 2: is going to be a top fifty pick. I mean
Speaker 2: against that ce he had like fifty catches in the game,
Speaker 2: and he did have a great catch in that game,
Speaker 2: but for the most part, they neutralized him a little bit.
Speaker 2: And what a what a letdown by Penn State. If
Speaker 2: I would have told you they'd be up ten to
Speaker 2: nothing on a pick six and they would score three points,
Speaker 2: you know, with five minutes in the game, score three
Speaker 2: points the rest of the game. That's pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 1: You know what I feel like with James Franklin, and
Speaker 1: I've met him before and I do like him. And
Speaker 1: I see this sometimes in college basketball and football John
Speaker 1: kyla Pari's a little bit of this great recruiter, and
Speaker 1: I feel like there's nothing else he's great at. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some guys like Jay Wright was great recruiting, developing,
Speaker 1: building a defense, creating leaders, tight late game situations. I mean,
Speaker 1: like Jay Wright checked every box. Krzyzewski's offense could be boring,
Speaker 1: but Mike checked a lot of boxes. So does Bill self.
Speaker 1: You know, Calipari's like the guy he can sell and
Speaker 1: that he deserves credit for that. But when I watch
Speaker 1: James Franklin, I feel like he's very dependent on having
Speaker 1: a great offensive coordinator he can recruit. His defense front
Speaker 1: sevens are Oh, it is really formidable. They look like
Speaker 1: an SEC front seven. They always got a pass rush.
Speaker 1: I just I just think he is sort of I
Speaker 1: just think he is what I see a lot of.
Speaker 1: He deserves his money. It's a great program. I like
Speaker 1: watching them play, but I just don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think I trust them in tight, big game situations.
Speaker 2: I don't where are their wider where are their wide receivers? Yesterday?
Speaker 2: You know, for a guy that is a great recruiter,
Speaker 2: and like you said, and they got NFL guys all
Speaker 2: over that roster. I think that's why it's such a letdown.
Speaker 2: You go, our rosters just as good as a roster.
Speaker 2: I actually think their quarterback, who was awful last year,
Speaker 2: it's kind of grown on me a little bit this year.
Speaker 2: But their wide receivers make no place, and they're so
Speaker 2: dependent on the tight end, who is a really good player.
Speaker 2: But to get them in that spot, they're all bitching
Speaker 2: and moaning because it's the morning game. They want the
Speaker 2: night games. Like guys, it wouldn't have mattered if the
Speaker 2: game would have been at midnight or at you know,
Speaker 2: five in the morning. You're never beating this team. And
Speaker 2: I just know long Penn State probably in the playoffs
Speaker 2: because if you look at their schedule, they have one loss.
Speaker 2: But I don't take this program seriously at all, relative
Speaker 2: like competing for national championships. Are they gonna have a
Speaker 2: ton of NFL guys? If you're a scout, you to
Speaker 2: spend five days a week there during the year, do
Speaker 2: you need? Yeah? Are they gonna win their ten eleven games?
Speaker 2: Depending on how the schedule breaks. You will never pick
Speaker 2: them against Ohio State. You will now never pick them
Speaker 2: against Oregon. And you know, we'll see if Michigan and
Speaker 2: USC can get their shit together over the next couple
Speaker 2: of years. But if those teams are good, you will
Speaker 2: pick those teams over Penn State as well. And that's
Speaker 2: kind of crazy because I think this was the first time.
Speaker 2: It's like, I think State's got a shot and then
Speaker 2: they're up ten nothing. You're like, God, is Ohio State
Speaker 2: about to get their butt kicked? And then you're like, no,
Speaker 2: they're not, because they just never make a big play
Speaker 2: when it has to be made. Obviously, the pick at
Speaker 2: the end of the first half was devastating. They get
Speaker 2: they get that final drive, they're adding the goal line essentially,
Speaker 2: and they can't punch it in the end zone. They
Speaker 2: just run it right up the gut twice and then
Speaker 2: they throw it on fourth down. It wasn't even close.
Speaker 2: And then Ohio State with all these random offensive linemen
Speaker 2: run it right down their throat the strength of their team,
Speaker 2: all these NFL guys, and in the game there's a
Speaker 2: big win for Ryan Day and I'm I can be
Speaker 2: Ohio State hitter. But that was that was impressive to.
Speaker 1: Get when they were winning on the roads. Hard in college,
Speaker 1: especially when you don't have a superstar quarterback. When you
Speaker 1: have a solid guy and Will Howard, winning on the
Speaker 1: road is hard.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: So let me touch on USC Lincoln Riley twelve and twelve.
Speaker 1: I'll go back.
Speaker 2: What's there a record right now? Colin?
Speaker 1: I think they're four and five or three? And what
Speaker 1: are Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think they're four and five. Yes, Yeah, that's pretty crazy,
Speaker 2: isn't it. If I would have told you three, they'd
Speaker 2: be four and five.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that gets really disappointing
Speaker 1: to me, Lincoln Riley said after the game, you know,
Speaker 1: six plays and we're nine to zero, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: not really. I do think offensively they'll be better next year.
Speaker 1: But I think I go back to something like they're
Speaker 1: getting wiped out in the state of California. They're just
Speaker 1: not recruiting the state. I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 1: he has a love for recruiting. I think there's some
Speaker 1: guys that really Saban loved it, he had charisma. I think.
Speaker 1: I think there's some guys that really loved a look.
Speaker 1: I think Sark Lane, Kiffen, there's a handful of guys.
Speaker 1: I think Ryan Day's probably hell of a recruiter. Brian Hartline,
Speaker 1: his receiver coach, is a great recruiter. I think sometimes
Speaker 1: Lincoln comes off as very prickly, very aloof, very detached,
Speaker 1: overly protective of players. I mean, he cut off media
Speaker 1: this week, no more media at the practices. It's like,
Speaker 1: you're four and five, we got better things to do.
Speaker 1: I think I think sometimes he forgetting this is not
Speaker 1: a rural town like this is. We got we got
Speaker 1: Sean McVay and the Lakers and the Dodgers and Herbert
Speaker 1: and the Rams. You start cutting people off like it's
Speaker 1: like I'm a I'm considered sort of pro usc But
Speaker 1: when I watch him, I go back to something that
Speaker 1: I think it's very clear to see they don't have
Speaker 1: enough good football players. And you know, Rick Newheiseel won
Speaker 1: a Rose Bull Washington. They beat Purdue. I didn't think.
Speaker 1: I didn't think new Heiseel was a great coach. But
Speaker 1: he liked recruiting. He was engaged. He really really enjoyed
Speaker 1: the showmanship of it. And Washington's up in the rain
Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest. They had Marcus tuiasos sopot quarterback.
Speaker 1: But I always come out of it and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what if you if you recruit at college,
Speaker 1: Charlie weise couldn't recruit. He was a smart guy, couldn't recruit.
Speaker 1: I just look at their brand. They have literally one
Speaker 1: serviceable offensive tackle, they have one running back. They're very
Speaker 1: past happy. I look at it and I think to myself,
Speaker 1: they'll be better next year. I don't see special. I
Speaker 1: don't see the players.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you would have told me this
Speaker 2: would have taken place after they beat LSU. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have believed you because it was clear like LSU was
Speaker 2: gonna be a good team, and if they beat Alabama
Speaker 2: next week on, they're gonna be ten to two and
Speaker 2: be a playoff team. Yeah, you know, so it's for
Speaker 2: them to end up four and five and like, are
Speaker 2: we sure they're I mean six and six. They've proven
Speaker 2: now they can lose to anybody. I think the craziest part.
Speaker 2: And it hit me last night. I'm watching the game.
Speaker 2: They're down twenty to seven, and I'm like, they're about
Speaker 2: to get rolled. I just turned on other games. I
Speaker 2: was actually shocked when I went back to my phone
Speaker 2: and saw that the game was close, So then I
Speaker 2: turned it back on. But it's barely November first, and
Speaker 2: they don't they don't matter in the college landscape like
Speaker 2: you watch and you know, some of their fans watched
Speaker 2: the whole game because they're invested in the program. But
Speaker 2: I didn't need to watch. I was paying attention because
Speaker 2: I know we talk about it, but they don't matter
Speaker 2: it does it just talk? They all football. You don't
Speaker 2: need to watch them. No, which year three paying them
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty million, this is an epic disaster.
Speaker 1: Colin John. They don't have anything resembling a first round player.
Speaker 1: They don't have anything. They have a center that is
Speaker 1: going about the third round. They have a safety in
Speaker 1: about a year I think will go in the third
Speaker 1: kind of a third round player. They have some nice receivers,
Speaker 1: none feel like first round players. They they have thirteen
Speaker 1: million dollars in nil Go buy an elite left tackle
Speaker 1: for a million dollars. Go buy the best rush in
Speaker 1: and football. They don't have. I mean, Washington's in a rebuild.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they have more good players in Washington
Speaker 1: and Washington's in a rebuild. With Jed Fish in his
Speaker 1: first year.
Speaker 2: I would say this. I mean, he's not going and
Speaker 2: nothing's gonna happen. But UCLA has showed some fight this season.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like they've they've at least shown some character.
Speaker 2: And if he were to lose that game regardless, I mean,
Speaker 2: now the record, would you agree the records kind of irrelevant.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what bowl games mean anymore in
Speaker 2: this college football? Do bowl games even still exist? But
Speaker 2: that that would be it'd be hard for people around
Speaker 2: the program and the money people to take him seriously.
Speaker 2: I mean it is right now at four and five
Speaker 2: into year three. Like people are on Brian Kelly. I
Speaker 2: mean he's he has a bad half against text A
Speaker 2: and M on the road, you know when they have
Speaker 2: a million NFL guys, like he was kicking their ass
Speaker 2: for a half. He's You watch and I watched a
Speaker 2: lot of LSU because I love watching the SEC. It's
Speaker 2: where the best players are. He's doing a pretty good job.
Speaker 2: And you talked to him. My scouting buddies are like,
Speaker 2: it's it's an impressive operation there. When you go in there,
Speaker 2: They're like, I would buy stock in this program moving forward.
Speaker 2: That is not the case. And like you said, the
Speaker 2: reporter thing, he did that last year. He does it
Speaker 2: like Lincoln. Why are you even worried about things that
Speaker 2: are just completely irrelevant to Can you beat Jetfish? I
Speaker 2: mean Jetfish should have beat you two years in a row.
Speaker 2: Remember they got very lucky to beat him last year.
Speaker 2: Was that that game go to overtime? Maybe beat him
Speaker 2: on the last play in the game. Yep, Caleb made
Speaker 2: an incredible play in overtime. Remember kind of scrambled. They
Speaker 2: easily could have lost that game. They were lucky to
Speaker 2: be seven to five last year because they lose that thing,
Speaker 2: they're six and six. It looks like they're headed towards
Speaker 2: six and six. And I would say, you're six and
Speaker 2: six and you lose to this UCLA team with Deshaun Foster.
Speaker 2: They're not paying one hundred and twenty million dollars for that.
Speaker 2: And like you said, think of all the top coaches,
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning, I mean loves to recruit clearly, like you say,
Speaker 2: Ryan Day in that program, they recruit their ass off.
Speaker 2: Kirby smart recruiter, sark huge. So the top programs, which
Speaker 2: USC LSU and you know Brian Kelly puts a lot
Speaker 2: of effort into it. They hired you to be their equals. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, coaching right now is not going that well.
Speaker 2: But it's like, okay, college football is not quite the NFL.
Speaker 2: If you just got the Jimmies and the Joe's, you
Speaker 2: could win, especially that C what eight nine games, no
Speaker 2: doubt about it. Then you got out coach to get
Speaker 2: to undefeated or a one. Lost your Jimmy's and the
Speaker 2: Joe's sc didn't They didn't play Oregon this year?
Speaker 1: Did they are Ohio State? They get run out of
Speaker 1: the stadium with those two.
Speaker 2: So they got lucky with their schedule. It could be
Speaker 2: way worse.
Speaker 1: Right, Listen Clay Helton could not recruit or develop, but
Speaker 1: he tried. He had an effort. I mean, it's USC
Speaker 1: fans come up mask me. I'm like, go watch the games.
Speaker 1: They don't have any separators. They're receivers. They have a
Speaker 1: kid named Lemon, runs good routes, good hands. They don't
Speaker 1: have anybody that separates. They got a safety, a center Wood.
Speaker 1: He marks the transfer running backs, a nice player. He's
Speaker 1: probably a fourth fifth round er. Nice player. They don't
Speaker 1: have a second running back in the program. They have
Speaker 1: one tackle that can play offensively. They have no great
Speaker 1: pass rushers. They just they just don't have any good player.
Speaker 1: They don't have enough quality. If you took the best
Speaker 1: ten Ohio State players and the USC the best ten
Speaker 1: Ohio State's got eight of them.
Speaker 2: Well, is there a chance that like the point of
Speaker 2: difference of Lincoln who was supposed to be this genius
Speaker 2: offensive guy, the gap between him Jed Fish an offensive
Speaker 2: guy who's coached with the best in the business, and
Speaker 2: his staff has a Belichick and and at Carrol obviously
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning staff is elite. You know, Ryan Day and
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly don't suck. I mean you look around the conference.
Speaker 2: You go, you got to beat some pretty well coached staffs.
Speaker 2: Iowa was a well coached staff. You got some of
Speaker 2: these teams. It's just going to be very, very difficult
Speaker 2: for them if they are not recruiting the I mean
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll and his Heyday ad the best of both worlds.
Speaker 1: Rights go to rivals dot Com twenty twenty five. Recruiting
Speaker 1: California an M Texas, Oregon, Texas A and m LSU.
Speaker 1: There's no u USC's got one rush and good kid
Speaker 1: from about thirty minutes outside of La up north. They're
Speaker 1: not getting a the players.
Speaker 2: Well, think about this. If you're a kid right now,
Speaker 2: Let's say you're seventeen years old for your entire life,
Speaker 2: starting to like eight nine years old, when you kind
Speaker 2: of start really understanding sports. SC's never been relevant, So
Speaker 2: you don't remember, like Matt Lioner thrown to Dwayne Jarrett.
Speaker 2: You weren't even born. So it's like, wait, maybe you
Speaker 2: were born to No.
Speaker 1: Six.
Speaker 2: Those teams have already they were done. So how this
Speaker 2: notion of like momentum is a real thing, right, I
Speaker 2: think Schefter had a report today like people are interested
Speaker 2: in going to the commanders. Don't blame him. I would
Speaker 2: be too. No one would have said that eight months ago.
Speaker 2: Things change faster than ever in society. If you're a
Speaker 2: kid like I'd want to go to Oregon, I'd want
Speaker 2: to go to Georgia, I'd want to go to LSU.
Speaker 2: I'd want to go Hell South Carolina. Beat the crap
Speaker 2: at A and M. They look cool. You know, Ohio State?
Speaker 2: Why would you want to go to sc What have
Speaker 2: they done over the last I would just say ten
Speaker 2: years to be If you're a young kid like I
Speaker 2: want to go there. We talk about it a lot
Speaker 2: because we remember these moments. Yeah they do not Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now with social media and stuff, their moments are
Speaker 2: they don't even exist. So I think he has a
Speaker 2: lot to overcome. And this gets to the thing is
Speaker 2: like can he build from scratch because that's what this
Speaker 2: need and it doesn't look like he really can. Yeah,
Speaker 2: where Jedfish is a good example. Went to Arizona. That
Speaker 2: was a disaster. What he proved that he was able
Speaker 2: to do And look at Arizona this year they stink again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like that that is really difficult to do, to
Speaker 2: go to a program just in general in college football
Speaker 2: that's down and out let alone a non power program,
Speaker 2: and turned into a nine to ten win team. He
Speaker 2: took over Bob Stoop's team, which he inherited. I don't know,
Speaker 2: a team full of over under probably twenty NFL guys
Speaker 2: I'll start in the league right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean what worries me? Even the guys
Speaker 1: outside of Caleb Williams that he brought from Oklahoma to USC.
Speaker 1: This is one of the first warning signs. He brought
Speaker 1: about six guys from Oklahoma to USC. One could play
Speaker 1: one one guy.
Speaker 2: And the Jordan Addison move, which obviously was a really
Speaker 2: good move. You know, they had Caleb like, is he
Speaker 2: getting Jordanadison this offseason? Like the equivalent of that guy,
Speaker 2: No chance.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of their starters in the D line
Speaker 1: is from Wyoming. One of the starters in their own
Speaker 1: line is from Wyoming. They're cherry picking Wyoming players in
Speaker 1: the transfer portal like they're just not They just don't
Speaker 1: have a good enough sales pitch. And that's college football.
Speaker 1: I think I think this.
Speaker 2: I think the sad thing is if you're a big,
Speaker 2: you know, la sc booster and money guy. You look
Speaker 2: around college football, it's not like there are these programs
Speaker 2: that are head and shoulder like it is very winnable
Speaker 2: right now. Yeah, I would say most of these teams,
Speaker 2: like you said, Oregon has really got their swag back
Speaker 2: after beating Ohio State. But I've watched Georgia against Florida.
Speaker 2: They don't look great. I mean, it's not like Ohio State.
Speaker 2: This is their best team in the last twenty years.
Speaker 2: Probably wouldn't even be a top five team last twenty years.
Speaker 2: So you look around college football, you go, well, Alabama's
Speaker 2: kind of meh for their standards. LSU's got some issues.
Speaker 1: Yeah we should.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are we doing here? We can't We can't
Speaker 2: even sniff those We can't even beat Washington. What's Washington?
Speaker 2: A seven win team? That's that's a problem, Colin, that's
Speaker 2: a problem.
Speaker 1: John Middlecoff, former NFL Scout three and out as always, buddy,
Speaker 1: great talking to him.
Speaker 2: See you, Colin, fight on, baby. That's all we can
Speaker 2: do the volume.
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