Speaker 1: Hi, This is Milan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
Speaker 1: We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Speaker 1: Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
Speaker 1: by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Mark Pritchard is an advertising legend, and as Chief Grand
Speaker 1: Officer for PNG, he leads an organization that has the
Speaker 1: power to reach five billion people daily. Mark is truly
Speaker 1: using that power for purpose to reshape the narrative around
Speaker 1: women and girls, helping to eliminate bias and promote equality.
Speaker 1: I sat down with Mark at Seneca's form at the
Speaker 1: Metropolitan Museum of Art. Listen to our conversation and learn
Speaker 1: about the revelation that changed his thinking, why he stowed
Speaker 1: his ground after releasing a seemingly controversial ad, and how
Speaker 1: each of us can be a force for good in
Speaker 1: the world. And stick around after the conversation to hear
Speaker 1: our top takeaways. So this is Mark Kertude, as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: Chief Rand Officer of PNG, truly a legend in advertising
Speaker 1: and media and a truly fierce champion for women. I
Speaker 1: think all of us here today understand that PNG is
Speaker 1: one of the largest advertisers in the world with some
Speaker 1: of the most powerful brands in the world. And with
Speaker 1: that enormous power comes enormous responsibility. So welcome Mark. So
Speaker 1: we'll talk about to Lett in a minute, um, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to start with this enormous reach and responsibility
Speaker 1: that you do have and what you're doing with that. Now.
Speaker 1: You often talk about business being a force for good
Speaker 1: and a force for growth, and most couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: the Business round Table came out and said that companies
Speaker 1: need to think about their social impact as well as profits.
Speaker 1: That was a pretty big shift for the Business round Table.
Speaker 1: So what does that mean in terms of the advertising business. Well,
Speaker 1: since we're part of business, we believe that advertising is
Speaker 1: such a major force because what it does is it
Speaker 1: reaches so many people. Are our brands reach five billion
Speaker 1: people on the planet every day with our advertising multiple
Speaker 1: times a day. And advertising affects perceptions. It affects perceptions
Speaker 1: from an influent standpoint, it communicates information, but most importantly
Speaker 1: what it does is it actually creates images and portrayals
Speaker 1: that embed memories into your mind that form bias. And
Speaker 1: so if those if those messages or images are inaccurate,
Speaker 1: then that bias is going to be inaccurate. So we
Speaker 1: believe that it's very important that we need to have
Speaker 1: the accurate portrayal of all people, the particularly of women
Speaker 1: and girls in advertising to ensure that we can promote,
Speaker 1: eliminate bias, and promote equality. We also periodically take a
Speaker 1: stand and advertising should take a stand. In business to
Speaker 1: take a stand because we do um we are a
Speaker 1: force for good and a force for growth. And what's
Speaker 1: fascinating about the Business Roundtable is that many many years ago,
Speaker 1: corporations were focused on the community in the world in
Speaker 1: which they live. That we went through this period where
Speaker 1: it became almost solely about profit and shareholder and now
Speaker 1: it's just really returning to what business can do is
Speaker 1: do both. I mean, it's very exciting. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we wrote this book about how we can fast forward
Speaker 1: and the real thesis is how we can each use
Speaker 1: our power for purpose. And it seemed like in the
Speaker 1: business world for a long time, power was during the
Speaker 1: week and purposes on the weekends, you know, and and
Speaker 1: the two should not mix. And you know, shareholder value
Speaker 1: and I'm a corporate or so you can see I
Speaker 1: can go there for a long time. It's kind of
Speaker 1: bolted on. That's why we thought about it was bolted
Speaker 1: on versus built in. We've now figured that what we
Speaker 1: need to do is we need to build in purpose,
Speaker 1: build in being a force for good on the areas
Speaker 1: of gender equality, racial equality, citizenship, and other aspects of sustainability.
Speaker 1: Then it becomes part of your business. And when you
Speaker 1: do that well, it actually is good and it drives growth.
Speaker 1: And the reason why it's so important is because it's
Speaker 1: more sustainable when it drives growth. If you just a
Speaker 1: force for good, you could be a philanthropy. If you're
Speaker 1: just a force for growth, you're a mercenary. You do both.
Speaker 1: You have a sustainable model that can make the world
Speaker 1: a better place. Now, I yeah, um, I could spend,
Speaker 1: by the way, a lot of time talking to Mark
Speaker 1: about this, and I think you would all be fascinated
Speaker 1: for a long time. But I have to ask this
Speaker 1: one first question about your background and sort of how
Speaker 1: you personally came to this idea of using your power
Speaker 1: for purpose, because I can't really overstate the influence that
Speaker 1: this man has had in the last several years on
Speaker 1: gender equality. And we'll talk about that in a minute.
Speaker 1: But how did you come to this yourself? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of grew up in a bit of an
Speaker 1: activist um community. My dad was very active in the
Speaker 1: Chicano community in Colorado, and so he was sold by nature.
Speaker 1: I think I had a little bit in me um,
Speaker 1: but but it really didn't hit me uh in terms
Speaker 1: of actually doing something about it until a little over
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. I was at a spiritual ranch with
Speaker 1: my wife, Betsy and our three young daughters, who are
Speaker 1: all under the age of ten. At the time, I
Speaker 1: happen to be running the cover girl business uh and UM.
Speaker 1: At the end of that week, the the person who
Speaker 1: led that, the spiritual leader, came up and said, listen,
Speaker 1: I I hope you understand the good you can do,
Speaker 1: because business will someday be the greatest force for good
Speaker 1: in the future. It's not gonna be clergy, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be religion, it's not gonna be Government's gonna be business.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be the greatest force for good. If you
Speaker 1: choose to do so, you can do a lot of good.
Speaker 1: And that was the proverbial blinding moment of clarity, because
Speaker 1: we had just created the easy breezy beautiful cover girl ad,
Speaker 1: but for our campaign, and unfortunately it didn't really accurately
Speaker 1: reflect um women. It was. It was somewhat stereotypical. It
Speaker 1: was somewhat objectifying. It was too young, the spokespeople too young,
Speaker 1: too thin, and too white. And I looked at my
Speaker 1: young my young daughters, and I thought, I can't live
Speaker 1: with this being what they view as the standard of beauty.
Speaker 1: And I realized our advertising effects perceptions of beauty. So
Speaker 1: went back, worked with the team and we changed. So
Speaker 1: we got to change this. We have to. We had
Speaker 1: much better. We actually brought in Queen Latifa as probably
Speaker 1: our best cover girl ever. We then um added we
Speaker 1: had a Brandy over Time, Janelle Money, so few of Ogara,
Speaker 1: Ellen de generes Um. We just we just expanded and
Speaker 1: it became a great expression of what real beauty means,
Speaker 1: which is it's who I am. And that that was
Speaker 1: That was a big one. A few years later, Queen
Speaker 1: Thifo came back to me, we have to be a
Speaker 1: Women of the World panel and um she we did
Speaker 1: a penalt together and she said, you know, we got
Speaker 1: to do something good together again, and we did. Now
Speaker 1: we've done the queen collective, which is we we give
Speaker 1: uh multicultural women so largely black and Hispanic women, the
Speaker 1: opportunity to direct films that will get them behind the
Speaker 1: camera because the number of women that are directing films
Speaker 1: are like four those who were black around or even
Speaker 1: less less of a percent, and we're giving them opportunities
Speaker 1: to produce films. I mean again, there's there's not enough
Speaker 1: time to go through all the campaigns, but the can
Speaker 1: I name a few? Like a girl campaign? We see
Speaker 1: equal campaign fighting racism with the talk. These are just
Speaker 1: recent campaigns. By the way, we just heard about the
Speaker 1: fight for Equal pay. That secret is kind of launching U.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about Tollette because this was a pretty
Speaker 1: polarizing shall I say add what was the reaction and
Speaker 1: what did you expect from it? Well, the the fascinating
Speaker 1: thing about this is that the actual consumer sentiment was
Speaker 1: not very polarizing. The actual consumer sentiment is that was
Speaker 1: very positive at and most of the people saw that
Speaker 1: found that the was was a good message because if
Speaker 1: you look at the ad, it shows bad behavior and
Speaker 1: it shows good behavior, and it shows role modeling positive behavior,
Speaker 1: and that's a pretty good message to be the best
Speaker 1: you can be, especially role modeling for the next generation,
Speaker 1: because the insight behind this ad was that it's not
Speaker 1: enough just to stand by and not objectify, not harass,
Speaker 1: not bully, take action, take a step up. The problem
Speaker 1: is is that it got kind of hijacked um in
Speaker 1: the social media world. Interesting and what happened then is
Speaker 1: a lot of negative messages came, which was a disproportionate
Speaker 1: number of messages from a few, very very few sources,
Speaker 1: and then that got reported on, so the narrative became
Speaker 1: it was higher polarizing and controversial as opposed to what
Speaker 1: the actual sentiment was or multiple studies that came out
Speaker 1: two or three days later that said this is actually
Speaker 1: a pretty positive ad. But there's a moment in there
Speaker 1: where I'm sure many people would have said, you know,
Speaker 1: we'd better pull back, because before you found out, I mean,
Speaker 1: when there was all that media coverage that you know,
Speaker 1: kind of false narrative media coverage, there was definitely a
Speaker 1: moment where I would think many people would say, maybe
Speaker 1: I've overstepped, I better pull back. But you doubled down.
Speaker 1: Now why did you double down? You know, we had
Speaker 1: some very you to your point, We had written some
Speaker 1: nail biting moments when we when we understood where some
Speaker 1: of these things were coming from, and I want to
Speaker 1: be understood that this was very positive, we said, no,
Speaker 1: this is the right thing to do. This is the time,
Speaker 1: this is actually the time to double down to make
Speaker 1: sure that we continue to go forward. Now importantly, we
Speaker 1: also uh not just continue to go we we we we.
Speaker 1: We went out and talked about it and explained it
Speaker 1: and discussed it and um, but we also listened. We
Speaker 1: listened to every side as well, because it's important. It's
Speaker 1: important to listen to Everett, to all sides, even if
Speaker 1: you didn't disagree. And that's what these things are built
Speaker 1: for is create conversation. And it's very important that we're
Speaker 1: creating conversations with men because last I checked, man are
Speaker 1: half the population and a little bit of power and
Speaker 1: gender equality, I mean general equality equal when women. So
Speaker 1: having men step up b role models, have conversations, that's
Speaker 1: that's powerful. So we said, that's the reason where we're
Speaker 1: going to stick with this, because this is the time
Speaker 1: that we need to be able to express that men
Speaker 1: have really responsibility and many want to and do step
Speaker 1: up to do the right thing. That's why we kept
Speaker 1: going well, and I understand that sort of the younger
Speaker 1: consumer was really positive on the ad men and women.
Speaker 1: Did you see a difference in sort of attitudes across
Speaker 1: the boarder? Did We had um some just Ransom research
Speaker 1: recently which indicated that our ratings went up among men
Speaker 1: under thirty five and women under thirty five. That's very heartening.
Speaker 1: So it's very hardening. You have access to incredible data.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're I think you may be the biggest
Speaker 1: advertiser in the world, so you might be the right
Speaker 1: person to tell us the future. So what are you
Speaker 1: seeing and what makes you concerned and what makes you
Speaker 1: optimistic about gender equality? Well, the thing, the thing that
Speaker 1: makes me concerned is that even after all the work
Speaker 1: that's been done, we still have so many gaps, and
Speaker 1: that that that's still to me is one of the
Speaker 1: parts that concerns me because what that indication you just
Speaker 1: heard the two years and and and the fact that
Speaker 1: there's so many layers to so many of these problems
Speaker 1: that you really have to penetrate, like the way secret
Speaker 1: is done, which is I'm incredibly proud of how they've
Speaker 1: gone after this on a multilayered basis that's the kind
Speaker 1: of thing that needs to get done, so that concerns me.
Speaker 1: But I would say I'm far more optimistic than anything,
Speaker 1: and that one of the biggest things that I'm optimistic
Speaker 1: about is the fact that the generation. It's not just
Speaker 1: not just the young generation. It's not just the Gen
Speaker 1: X and and the and the or Gen Z sorry
Speaker 1: and the and the millennials. It's if you look across
Speaker 1: now all age groups, including boomers um, more than half
Speaker 1: of people are expecting brands to take a stand. They're
Speaker 1: expecting brands to express their views on gender equality. They're
Speaker 1: they're expecting people to take action. They're they're listening more.
Speaker 1: You know, many many of us that were in the
Speaker 1: in the boomer generation, you know, I think we had
Speaker 1: this latent desire to make a big difference. We it
Speaker 1: and have the tools that we have. Now, now we
Speaker 1: have Moneys and gen z as our children, They're influencing
Speaker 1: us to step up and take more actions. I feel
Speaker 1: like we are on this cusp where we can really
Speaker 1: push it now. I'm also seeing more and more companies
Speaker 1: getting involved, more and more brands, companies using their voices,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing that gives me optimism that we
Speaker 1: can that we can make a difference here in the
Speaker 1: in the coming years. Now is the time to act though,
Speaker 1: right A hundred percent agree. And you know we named
Speaker 1: our books fast Forward and the Reason why today's program,
Speaker 1: which is the first thing we really focused on the
Speaker 1: role of the private sector. We felt it was important
Speaker 1: because as we're looking to the hunt of anniversary, as
Speaker 1: we're looking to years we're looking to we have to accelerate.
Speaker 1: And we do believe that people like you, organizations like yours,
Speaker 1: can help us accelerate. And I really want to thank
Speaker 1: you because Sharon talks a little bit about the power
Speaker 1: of one and the role the difference one person can make,
Speaker 1: and we talked about earlier. Virtue Foundation says the same thing.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, Mark, and I really mean
Speaker 1: it sincerely, that I think what you've done in your position,
Speaker 1: and I've noticed so many other companies are now wanting
Speaker 1: to do what Mark Richard does and that's a really
Speaker 1: good thing in the world. So more and more companies
Speaker 1: are thinking about their advertising spending a different way. They're
Speaker 1: thinking about the stories they're telling. They're thinking it's competitive
Speaker 1: for them, um if they want to win that they
Speaker 1: better tell positive stories about women, and so we really
Speaker 1: sincerely thank you well. It is a privilege to be
Speaker 1: with you. I think Cynec Women is an amazing organization
Speaker 1: doing amazing things, and if I can be useful to
Speaker 1: any one individual to make a difference, I will do that.
Speaker 1: But thank you. Stay tuned for our takeaways after this break.
Speaker 1: That was a truly inspiring conversation with Mark Pritchard. To
Speaker 1: learn more about the Gillette campaign, go to the Best
Speaker 1: Men Can Be dot org and see how p andng
Speaker 1: Angelette are driving the equality conversation around men and boys.
Speaker 1: My top takeaways. First, today companies have both the opportunity
Speaker 1: and the responsibility to bring about positive change in the world,
Speaker 1: and the public expects it. Second, when companies and individuals
Speaker 1: put purpose at the center of what they do, not
Speaker 1: just bolted on, they can both be a force for
Speaker 1: good and a force for growth. Finally, there will be
Speaker 1: times when a company or an individual needs to take
Speaker 1: a stand, even when facing significant criticism and push back.
Speaker 1: It is in those moments where you can find power
Speaker 1: in your purpose. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on
Speaker 1: power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca Women
Speaker 1: Podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from founding
Speaker 1: partner of p and listen to Seneca Women conversations on
Speaker 1: power and purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please support this
Speaker 1: podcast by telling your friends, subscribe and rating us. For
Speaker 1: more information on Seneca Women, follow us on social media,
Speaker 1: visit our website Seneca Women dot com, and check out
Speaker 1: the Seneca Women app free in the app Store. Have
Speaker 1: a great day, m