WEBVTT - Candid Convo: Prof. Emily Oster: Mother’s Day Special 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.720 Tired of ads interrupting your gripping investigations. Good news, AD 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.119 free listening on Amazon Music is included with your Prime membership. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.440 Ads shouldn't be the scariest thing about true crime. Just 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.319 head to Amazon dot com slash ad free true Crime 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:17.400 to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.400 and thought to as shows a free for punchbscribers. Some 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:19.880 shows me how that? 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.759 Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Midmobile. We like to do 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.919 the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.000 a lot, we charge you a little. 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Answer a few 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.720 uestions about your business and goals, and the wondersweet tools 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.880 will automatically create your website or store. From there, you 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.280 can customize your design, colors, and content, and we automatically 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.040 help you get found in search engines like Google and Bing. 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.400 From step by step guidance to suggested plugins. Blue host 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.880 makes WordPress wonderful for everyone. Go to bluehost dot com 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:19.960 slash Wondersuite. 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.200 Welcome to she Pivots. I'm your host to Emily Tish Sussman. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.360 One of my goals in starting this podcast is to 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.960 highlight voices and stories of women who went through something 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.920 deeply personal, only to come out of it on the 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.040 other side better than they could have imagined. After launching 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.760 she Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small group. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.360 This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.800 or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.960 still a lot of unpacking to do around pivoting. So 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.080 as we're continuing to build this platform and community through 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.760 new episodes, I want to also bring you more stories 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.959 unfiltered and honest. So I'll be sitting down with more women, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.040 maybe the occasional man, some of whom have mastered their 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.880 own pivot, some are just starting the pivoting journey. Are 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.320 some just have something to teach us about the deeply 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.680 personal moments of life. So stay tuned for more of 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:30.120 these candid conversations this season. To celebrate Mother's Day, I'm 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.919 excited to share my conversation with Emily Oster. She's one 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.440 of my mom idols and I consume her content religiously. Currently, 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.640 she is a professor of economics at Brown University, an 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:46.120 author of three books, Expecting Better, Crib Sheet and The 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.320 Family Firm. With her academic background, she uses data to 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.959 analyze and discuss the choices around pregnancy and parenting. Let's 0:02:54.040 --> 0:03:02.360 jump right in Welcome. I'm so excited to be joined 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:06.720 by probably the biggest mom influencer, maybe kind of anti 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:12.399 influencer in my life, Emily Oster, economist at Brown. Overall 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.480 smart lady. One of my friends. Send me your Instagram, 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:17.880 which is how I found you, because she was like, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.120 here is someone who's actually talking the way that we 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.519 are taught, like parents of young kids, like the way 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.280 that we are talking about how the fact that we 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.320 want our kids in school right now and they're not 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.800 learning anything with mass on and like we're not anti vaxer's, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.079 like you know COVID exists, but like our kids are 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.560 not learning and like we know that. And the fact 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.200 that you were saying it from a factual place. I 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.920 had never seen anything like it, and I felt like 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.240 validated my feelings after like two plus years of feeling 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.240 oh well, I mean five plus years of having kids, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.280 I've everyone been like, this is the way you're supposed 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.000 to do something. This is the like, this is like 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.920 the best way. Like seeing you say it that way 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.040 like resonated with me the way that nothing else had. 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.280 Is that why you started it? No, but that's great 0:03:58.280 --> 0:03:58.600 to hear. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:03.280 I guarded doing the kinds of stuff that I'm doing, 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.040 sort of speaking to parents from this place of data 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.480 and evidence and facts. When I got pregnant for the 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.080 first time and I have my oldest one is eleven, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.839 she's almost twelve, and so this was now really quite 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.520 a long time ago, and I got pregnant and I 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.720 had a sort of experience. I think in the end, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.400 a lot of people turned out to have shared, which 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.600 is the feeling of frustration that I wasn't being empowered 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.359 to make the choices and decisions that I thought that 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.200 I should be part of. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.560 Wait, what do you mean by that? Like in decisions 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:31.560 that you should have been a part of. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.400 So there are many decisions that you face in pregnancy, 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.400 like what kind of prenatal testing should I have? Should 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.479 I have an epidural? Like you know, can I have 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.960 a cup of coffee? And many of the ways that 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.840 the evidence was presented was to sort of like do 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:46.320 this or don't do this, Like no, you can't have 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:47.800 a cup of coffee, and you'd be like, well, why, 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.920 I don't know, it's in the rules, or maybe it's 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:51.800 okay to have a little don't worry about it. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:53.159 But I really. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.920 Wanted to understand those things better, and so a lot 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.760 of the experience of my first pregnancy was sort of 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.960 trying to work through, using my professional training, trying to 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.760 work through many of the questions that were coming up 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.159 while I was pregnant, And then that sort of led 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.120 to my first book, and that kind of led to 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.600 the whole whatever my job is now? 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.200 I guess, yeah, how do you describe your job now? 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.560 So I mean I am I'm a professor, is like, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.000 so I teach a brown I have a full time 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.400 job doing that. What I do that is more visible 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.279 is I'm I basically I am a writer, so you know, 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.279 I write books and then I write this newsletter and 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.360 translate data for people. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.599 How do you think about this public PERSONA part of it, 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.920 I mean, a part of what I felt so connected 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.880 to when I found your Instagram is that, like it's 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.880 just you in real life, Like you're often running when 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.000 you're like answering questions. How intentional was it that you 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:47.920 were like, this is the me that I'm going to 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.679 put out into the world. Like I keep my personal Instagram. 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.440 Actually I still keep it private because maybe because I'm 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.080 too chaotic for the public. But like, but like I'm 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.800 just not ready to think about that, like what is 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.200 my public me? It is an interesting question. 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.320 I've been much more deliberate about my kids, So I 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.640 don't put my kids on Instagram, and we don't have 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.320 pictures of them and that kind of stuff. And my 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.680 husband's a pretty private person and so it really is 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.440 just sort of me. But part of what I have 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.720 found very valuable about social media, although it has many problems, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.039 is this ability to connect, and I think, when done well, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.440 letting people see the kind of ways that things are 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.440 messy and see your chaos and understand that. Like I 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.200 wear the same sweatshirt all the time, you know, and 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.919 if you only saw pictures of me at events, you 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.159 would be like, wow, that person has different clothes, but 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.400 actually it's like the same sweat Like for ninety eight 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.640 percent of the time, I'm dressed in the same thing, 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.960 and I'm like, you know, trying to make it work. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.120 And so I think that kind of authenticity is helpful. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.719 The other thing is I cannot do the job that 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.120 I do if I have to think and also do 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.040 social media if I have to think too much about 0:06:59.040 --> 0:06:59.960 what I am putting up there. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.640 I mean, that's anesoutly like a real question for me, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.880 is I mean, I think about this with the superficial 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.400 mob influence, there's even more like how do you decide 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.400 when you're going on? Like I feel like if I'm 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.080 getting through a day, like there are so many days 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:14.520 and I feel like, oh my god, we made it 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.120 to the end of the day, like it was the 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.320 bare minimum that I could do, Like we just made 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.720 it through. But like, how do you remember to put 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:22.760 things up. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.880 So a good example here is like on Wednesdays, I 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.880 do these qaas and I do like like I asked 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.480 people for questions in the morning and then like a 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.320 few times throughout the day, I like answer a bunch 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.000 of questions and I literally do those like I have 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.200 ten minutes between a meeting, and they are totally uncurious 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:39.120 and you can see. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.200 Like I'm not. I mean like different weird locations. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.000 Sometimes I try to like find like different angles on 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.360 my office just like people are. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:47.760 Like, oh the rice cooker again. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.239 Yeah cool, But you know, I think it is it. 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.960 It is kind of a way to like bring people 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.360 along a little bit. But it's also the case that 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.560 like if I had to curate those, if I had 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.600 to say, like Okay, I'm going to make sure the 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.800 lighting is right and like I'm wearing the right makeup. 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.240 You know, I've organized it so it's like there's music 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.360 or whatever else, like I just would never be able 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:07.120 to do it. 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.840 And that's it. Yeah, totally I could never do it. 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.600 Not do it. I mean the other day you shared 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:14.600 I thought was very personal and something I like share 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.440 more and less about. But like having gained weight recently, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.320 that like for me I had actually I had commented 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.520 right back to yours and you had posted that, like 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.400 you had gotten a ton of comments around it that 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.760 like for me, it was tied to pregnancy, but like 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.600 an abnormal amount of weight, like I gained like one 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.360 hundred pounds with my first pregnancy, and then I just 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.480 had three more, like I had two more pregnancy, So 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.480 I just kept it on for five years. And it 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.680 wasn't actually for me until the lockdown that I was 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.960 able to focus enough because like I was, like I 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.480 wasn't pulled in a lot of other directions. I was 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.880 actually able to focus and like lose it and get 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.640 back to where I had been before. But like, it's 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.440 also made me realize that one I feel like I had, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.359 like I went through life as like a reasonably attractive 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.680 you know, I'm a knock gal, but like you know, 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.720 like people responded to me as like reasonably attractive person 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.480 and then gaining weight so quickly and ramping up afterwards. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.600 I felt like I had a very different experience in 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.600 the workplace. I was on TV the whole time, like 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.960 as like a different weight, and it was hard for 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:13.440 me not to want to go back to that. You know, 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.320 I wasn't as healthy and like I didn't feel as good, 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.280 but also from like a pure vanity perspective that we 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.240 can be as body positivity as we want, and we 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.680 should be and we can be. But like I had 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.440 a different experience moving through the world. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.439 I think what was interesting about posting that was that 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:32.360 it came I think, in some ways very much from 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.760 the same kind of place of kind of like recognizing 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:37.960 that I not that I should be happy, but just 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.280 that it like from a place of body positivity, like 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.080 I would like to be comfortable, and I rationally understand 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.960 that like this is actually not a big deal and 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.000 that it is not something that I should be thinking about. 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:52.480 And you know, I spend a lot of time and 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.920 like I talked to Virginia Stiul Smith a lot, like 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.760 Jess a friend of mine, and so I sort of 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.719 understand that, and yet it is still the case that 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.480 like I feel bad, and I think that that that 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.680 was I think the piece that resonated, just the feeling 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.600 of like, it's not that this is a problem and 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.079 I and the messages I got were not people saying like, oh, 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.720 you look great, because actually it's completely not any of 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.680 the point. It's this feeling of like, well that isn't 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.440 this is bothering me in a way that I wish 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.360 it was not. And I think that was the thing 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.120 that resonated. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.959 Totally, was that, like the big the general response you 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:25.800 got back to being like yes, I wish like I 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.920 wish I didn't care, but I do care, or like 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.160 just yes I feel like this and I know that 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:35.640 I shouldn't care, but I do and it bothers me. Yeah, totally. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.839 I felt like I got so I was on TV 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.160 as a political commentator, like when I was gaining weight, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.200 when I was on the whole time, and I got 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.760 a comment back from a producer when I was like, 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.640 so I had just gone back from eternity by just 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.040 gone back on TV, and a comment from a producer 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.120 to my agent saying, you know, if Emily doesn't look 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:53.480 a little better, it's gonna be hard for us to 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:53.880 book her. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:54.200 Oof. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.360 I know it was so brutal and like, to be fair, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:10:59.000 I look. 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.400 Back in the horrible that's like that did kind of well, 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:03.800 that's hard. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.400 That I did also look like a mess, but that's 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.360 because like not my clo fin like I was a mess. 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.240 I looked very I don't. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.000 Know I don't approve of that at all. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.920 Well, I really appreciate that support, but no, it was 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.200 like the I looked like a mess because I was 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.000 a mess, and like it was the hardest thing for 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.240 me to hear in that moment. It took me multiple 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.120 more years than to have the brain space to be 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.400 able to actually feel like I could focus on it, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.160 and like, like weight does fluctuate, Like it fluctuates all 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.040 the time, like depending on the weather, and like if 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.200 I'm going to a lot of kids' birthday parties, like 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.520 I will get down with that cold pizza more definitely 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:44.880 more than any other child in the room. 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.320 Yeah, it means a really complicated space because I think 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.280 there's been so much move towards sort of trying to 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.400 accept that like this is that that kind of comment 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.679 is just totally not okay, and that in fact, like 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.400 we do need to move to a place where like 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.800 we are not fetishizing thinness and the way that we 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:03.480 have in the past. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:04.400 I think that's like really. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.199 Important, but it is also hard when you have spent 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.880 your whole life getting to there to be like, wow, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.520 that's that's fine. Actually what's interesting is for me, like 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.600 doing all this running has in some ways, like been 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.240 quite good because it is very clear that like correctly 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.480 nourishing oneself is important for running fast. I run like 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.200 not to be thinner, but to go fast and like 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.760 run fast and so so that has been very helpful. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.679 And even though it is often associated with like, oh, 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.120 runners have a lot of eating issues, that is that 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.280 is true for me, It's actually almost the opposite. And 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.960 the other response I got to that post was so 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.720 my friends were runners who were like, but you're running PRS, 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:46.120 Like who cares? 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.840 Which I was like, very it was like very nicely. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:50.360 One of my friends, a professional runner, was like, but 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:51.560 you're running PRS, so who cares? 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.600 Another Okay, well, Molly says it probably I love So. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.960 I actually also started running in the last couple of years, 0:12:57.960 --> 0:12:59.679 Like it was part of my like get back into 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.080 shape was to start running. And I run for exactly 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:09.520 the opposite reason. I am the slowest, sloppiest runner, the slowest. 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.199 I'm real slow. I have to tell you, like the 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.840 height of my running. I did my first, my second 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.240 five K that I've ever done. I did one like 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.400 ten years ago. I did it locally, and I still 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.600 needed to do like an entire Broadway Show album to 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.600 make Me Through, like to get through a five K, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.079 Like I am so slow, But that's not at all 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.960 what it's about. Like it's about me being outside and 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:32.720 being able to work out. Like my kids are still 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.400 six four and two, so like a lot of touching, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.120 a lot of mommy if I'm paying adequate attention to 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:40.920 one and the other two are like, well I better 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.000 get in throw something like I better do something pretty 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.360 extreme to get that dominated attention. So like working out 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.000 outside is actually the only way that I can work 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.640 out and have a clear head. So like that's more 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.840 what it's about for me. But if I gave myself 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.040 the metric of running fast, it would become the most 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:01.559 depressing thing I did that day. Yeah, it's interesting. 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.839 I mean I think it's like I'm like running has 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.520 been very many things for me, including what you describe, 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:07.920 and I think now my kids are older, it's like 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:09.720 a little bit easier to be like, Okay, well maybe 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.480 I can try to like go faster, and then I'm 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.240 gotting I'm old, so it's like hard to go faster. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:19.440 But I interviewed Alison Felix. Ah, yes, I'm not as 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.040 fast as Alison Felix. I'm not that's not a goal 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.600 that I'm in corporating. I'm not trying to get towards. 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.040 My dream for that interview was that we would do 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.160 it in person and then we would running. Yeah, like 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.000 I would be the real life version of that meme. 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.480 That's like the Olympics would be a lot better if 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.440 we could see a regular person run alongside them. She 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.640 passed on that I'm amazing, amazing, I'm disappointing. It's gonna 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.760 be a real shock to everyone that she did not 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.560 want to run against me. But I did like everything 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.280 I possibly could when I was in LA to nail 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.560 her down. Like they're like, oh, Alison's really busy this week. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.160 I was like, but I just I just needed to 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.440 run like a little like just her yard, like just 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.680 the legs of the block. And they were not interested. Shockingly, 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.320 So what do you feel, like, what do you want 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.920 people who are following to take away from like all 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.600 the content that you're putting out. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.040 So the main thing, ultimately I want people to take 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.160 away is a better understanding of data and how data 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.440 can be helpful in making decisions. And I think that 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.960 that's huge amount of what I do in my newsletter 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.080 writing and my book writing is kind of that piece 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.600 of it is like you saw this scary study. So 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.920 like a good example is like I got a million 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.120 DMS emails whatever. When the Washington Post the other day 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.200 was like ultra processed foods give you a varying cancer, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.480 and like don't eat breakfast cereal is there's a lot 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.000 of that that comes through. You know, I will of 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.320 course write about that and talk about that in the 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.200 newsletter and explain why that's you know, like hot garbage. 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.640 But what I would like is for when people where 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.880 I want to get to is when people see that 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.960 they don't have to send it to me. They're just like, oh, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.400 Emily's already told me the like observational studies are bad, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.520 and I can look at this table and realize that 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.200 this paper is really flawed, and so I'm just going 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:09.520 to move on with my life. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:10.760 That's like where I want to get to. 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.720 Yeah, And so what I'm doing is sort of moving. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.360 I'm trying to move in that direction. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.560 I think part of what we're trying to combine, and 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.480 you know, this is still very much a kind of 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.360 work and progress is sort of how do you bring 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.720 people along on that and make it not like a 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.280 class on econometrics. I know how to teach a class 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.440 at economicis I'm a job, you know, I've totally but 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.000 people don't want to take that class. 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.640 That's a requirement actually at my university. 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.400 So we need to like figure out how do you 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:39.880 how do I bring people in so they can see 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.080 some of that, so that content starts getting into people's 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:44.840 heads and helps people move forward. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:46.200 It helps you make better decisions. 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.120 But also it's like and relatable and they're sort of 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.280 they feel like they're getting it from somebody who they 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.200 trust and are willing to come along a little bit 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:55.800 with the with the econometrics. 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:03.119 So that's the balance. I mean, it's such an interesting 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.000 parenting lens on the problem with disinformation now that like 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.040 we don't know which sources to trust, we don't know 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.320 what is a real study. There was a huge I 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:13.720 don't know, like you're going back to COVID, but like 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.680 there was a huge fight in my school last year 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.360 among the parents because the school put in a vaccine 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.960 mandate once they approved the five to twelve and there 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.680 was a big movement of parents who were pulling out 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:30.240 studies saying that the vaccine caused problems in kids that 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.560 they were not willing to subject their parents to. We 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.520 had a parent who works as like a biomedical engineer, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.199 and so she went through study by study and she 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.239 was like, not one of these studies would hold up 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.199 in any way. So we had our own Emily. I 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.520 guess like resident and expert. I'm probably more of an expert, yes, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.760 in the mechanics. But interestingly, the parents that were reading 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.720 the studies were not interested in what she had to say, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.199 like they did not respect her as an expert. So 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.919 I think, like, who is the expert is a huge 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:57.879 part of the problem. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:17:59.800 I agree, And I think one of the things we 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.679 saw very much during COVID was sort of people glomming 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.800 on to their own experts and sort of their own 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.320 I'm going to follow this expert or I'm going to 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:11.240 sort of be following this person. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.120 I think part of what we're trying to do. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.440 A little bit in this space is sort of think 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.360 about people as not that people are their own experts, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.920