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Go to bluehost dot com 28 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 3: slash Wondersuite. 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 4: Welcome to she Pivots. I'm your host to Emily Tish Sussman. 30 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: One of my goals in starting this podcast is to 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 4: highlight voices and stories of women who went through something 32 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 4: deeply personal, only to come out of it on the 33 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 4: other side better than they could have imagined. After launching 34 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 4: she Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small group. 35 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 4: This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot 36 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 4: or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's 37 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 4: still a lot of unpacking to do around pivoting. So 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 4: as we're continuing to build this platform and community through 39 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 4: new episodes, I want to also bring you more stories 40 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 4: unfiltered and honest. So I'll be sitting down with more women, 41 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 4: maybe the occasional man, some of whom have mastered their 42 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 4: own pivot, some are just starting the pivoting journey. Are 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 4: some just have something to teach us about the deeply 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 4: personal moments of life. So stay tuned for more of 45 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 4: these candid conversations this season. To celebrate Mother's Day, I'm 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 4: excited to share my conversation with Emily Oster. She's one 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 4: of my mom idols and I consume her content religiously. Currently, 48 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 4: she is a professor of economics at Brown University, an 49 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 4: author of three books, Expecting Better, Crib Sheet and The 50 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 4: Family Firm. With her academic background, she uses data to 51 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 4: analyze and discuss the choices around pregnancy and parenting. Let's 52 00:02:54,040 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 4: jump right in Welcome. I'm so excited to be joined 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 4: by probably the biggest mom influencer, maybe kind of anti 54 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 4: influencer in my life, Emily Oster, economist at Brown. Overall 55 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 4: smart lady. One of my friends. Send me your Instagram, 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 4: which is how I found you, because she was like, 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 4: here is someone who's actually talking the way that we 58 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 4: are taught, like parents of young kids, like the way 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: that we are talking about how the fact that we 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 4: want our kids in school right now and they're not 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 4: learning anything with mass on and like we're not anti vaxer's, 62 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 4: like you know COVID exists, but like our kids are 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 4: not learning and like we know that. And the fact 64 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 4: that you were saying it from a factual place. I 65 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 4: had never seen anything like it, and I felt like 66 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 4: validated my feelings after like two plus years of feeling 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 4: oh well, I mean five plus years of having kids, 68 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: I've everyone been like, this is the way you're supposed 69 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 4: to do something. This is the like, this is like 70 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: the best way. Like seeing you say it that way 71 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 4: like resonated with me the way that nothing else had. 72 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 4: Is that why you started it? No, but that's great 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 4: to hear. 74 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 5: I guarded doing the kinds of stuff that I'm doing, 75 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 5: sort of speaking to parents from this place of data 76 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 5: and evidence and facts. When I got pregnant for the 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 5: first time and I have my oldest one is eleven, 78 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 5: she's almost twelve, and so this was now really quite 79 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 5: a long time ago, and I got pregnant and I 80 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 5: had a sort of experience. I think in the end, 81 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 5: a lot of people turned out to have shared, which 82 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 5: is the feeling of frustration that I wasn't being empowered 83 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 5: to make the choices and decisions that I thought that 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 5: I should be part of. 85 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 4: Wait, what do you mean by that? Like in decisions 86 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 4: that you should have been a part of. 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 5: So there are many decisions that you face in pregnancy, 88 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 5: like what kind of prenatal testing should I have? Should 89 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 5: I have an epidural? Like you know, can I have 90 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 5: a cup of coffee? And many of the ways that 91 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 5: the evidence was presented was to sort of like do 92 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 5: this or don't do this, Like no, you can't have 93 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 5: a cup of coffee, and you'd be like, well, why, 94 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 5: I don't know, it's in the rules, or maybe it's 95 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 5: okay to have a little don't worry about it. 96 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 4: But I really. 97 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 5: Wanted to understand those things better, and so a lot 98 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 5: of the experience of my first pregnancy was sort of 99 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 5: trying to work through, using my professional training, trying to 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 5: work through many of the questions that were coming up 101 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 5: while I was pregnant, And then that sort of led 102 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 5: to my first book, and that kind of led to 103 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 5: the whole whatever my job is now? 104 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, how do you describe your job now? 105 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 5: So I mean I am I'm a professor, is like, 106 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 5: so I teach a brown I have a full time 107 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 5: job doing that. What I do that is more visible 108 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 5: is I'm I basically I am a writer, so you know, 109 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 5: I write books and then I write this newsletter and 110 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 5: translate data for people. 111 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 4: How do you think about this public PERSONA part of it, 112 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 4: I mean, a part of what I felt so connected 113 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: to when I found your Instagram is that, like it's 114 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 4: just you in real life, Like you're often running when 115 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 4: you're like answering questions. How intentional was it that you 116 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 4: were like, this is the me that I'm going to 117 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 4: put out into the world. Like I keep my personal Instagram. 118 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 4: Actually I still keep it private because maybe because I'm 119 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 4: too chaotic for the public. But like, but like I'm 120 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 4: just not ready to think about that, like what is 121 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 4: my public me? It is an interesting question. 122 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 5: I've been much more deliberate about my kids, So I 123 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 5: don't put my kids on Instagram, and we don't have 124 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 5: pictures of them and that kind of stuff. And my 125 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 5: husband's a pretty private person and so it really is 126 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 5: just sort of me. But part of what I have 127 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 5: found very valuable about social media, although it has many problems, 128 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 5: is this ability to connect, and I think, when done well, 129 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 5: letting people see the kind of ways that things are 130 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 5: messy and see your chaos and understand that. Like I 131 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 5: wear the same sweatshirt all the time, you know, and 132 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 5: if you only saw pictures of me at events, you 133 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 5: would be like, wow, that person has different clothes, but 134 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 5: actually it's like the same sweat Like for ninety eight 135 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 5: percent of the time, I'm dressed in the same thing, 136 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 5: and I'm like, you know, trying to make it work. 137 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 5: And so I think that kind of authenticity is helpful. 138 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 5: The other thing is I cannot do the job that 139 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 5: I do if I have to think and also do 140 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 5: social media if I have to think too much about 141 00:06:59,040 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 5: what I am putting up there. 142 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 4: I mean, that's anesoutly like a real question for me, 143 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 4: is I mean, I think about this with the superficial 144 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 4: mob influence, there's even more like how do you decide 145 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 4: when you're going on? Like I feel like if I'm 146 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 4: getting through a day, like there are so many days 147 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 4: and I feel like, oh my god, we made it 148 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: to the end of the day, like it was the 149 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 4: bare minimum that I could do, Like we just made 150 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 4: it through. But like, how do you remember to put 151 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 4: things up. 152 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 5: So a good example here is like on Wednesdays, I 153 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 5: do these qaas and I do like like I asked 154 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 5: people for questions in the morning and then like a 155 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 5: few times throughout the day, I like answer a bunch 156 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 5: of questions and I literally do those like I have 157 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 5: ten minutes between a meeting, and they are totally uncurious 158 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 5: and you can see. 159 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 4: Like I'm not. I mean like different weird locations. 160 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 5: Sometimes I try to like find like different angles on 161 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 5: my office just like people are. 162 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: Like, oh the rice cooker again. 163 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 5: Yeah cool, But you know, I think it is it. 164 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 5: It is kind of a way to like bring people 165 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 5: along a little bit. But it's also the case that 166 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 5: like if I had to curate those, if I had 167 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 5: to say, like Okay, I'm going to make sure the 168 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 5: lighting is right and like I'm wearing the right makeup. 169 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 5: You know, I've organized it so it's like there's music 170 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 5: or whatever else, like I just would never be able 171 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 5: to do it. 172 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 4: And that's it. Yeah, totally I could never do it. 173 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 4: Not do it. I mean the other day you shared 174 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 4: I thought was very personal and something I like share 175 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 4: more and less about. But like having gained weight recently, 176 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 4: that like for me I had actually I had commented 177 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 4: right back to yours and you had posted that, like 178 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 4: you had gotten a ton of comments around it that 179 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 4: like for me, it was tied to pregnancy, but like 180 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 4: an abnormal amount of weight, like I gained like one 181 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 4: hundred pounds with my first pregnancy, and then I just 182 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 4: had three more, like I had two more pregnancy, So 183 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 4: I just kept it on for five years. And it 184 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 4: wasn't actually for me until the lockdown that I was 185 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 4: able to focus enough because like I was, like I 186 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 4: wasn't pulled in a lot of other directions. I was 187 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 4: actually able to focus and like lose it and get 188 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: back to where I had been before. But like, it's 189 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 4: also made me realize that one I feel like I had, 190 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,359 Speaker 4: like I went through life as like a reasonably attractive 191 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 4: you know, I'm a knock gal, but like you know, 192 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: like people responded to me as like reasonably attractive person 193 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 4: and then gaining weight so quickly and ramping up afterwards. 194 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 4: I felt like I had a very different experience in 195 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 4: the workplace. I was on TV the whole time, like 196 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 4: as like a different weight, and it was hard for 197 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: me not to want to go back to that. You know, 198 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 4: I wasn't as healthy and like I didn't feel as good, 199 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 4: but also from like a pure vanity perspective that we 200 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 4: can be as body positivity as we want, and we 201 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 4: should be and we can be. But like I had 202 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 4: a different experience moving through the world. 203 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 5: I think what was interesting about posting that was that 204 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 5: it came I think, in some ways very much from 205 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 5: the same kind of place of kind of like recognizing 206 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 5: that I not that I should be happy, but just 207 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 5: that it like from a place of body positivity, like 208 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 5: I would like to be comfortable, and I rationally understand 209 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 5: that like this is actually not a big deal and 210 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 5: that it is not something that I should be thinking about. 211 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 5: And you know, I spend a lot of time and 212 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 5: like I talked to Virginia Stiul Smith a lot, like 213 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 5: Jess a friend of mine, and so I sort of 214 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 5: understand that, and yet it is still the case that 215 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 5: like I feel bad, and I think that that that 216 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 5: was I think the piece that resonated, just the feeling 217 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 5: of like, it's not that this is a problem and 218 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 5: I and the messages I got were not people saying like, oh, 219 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 5: you look great, because actually it's completely not any of 220 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 5: the point. It's this feeling of like, well that isn't 221 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 5: this is bothering me in a way that I wish 222 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 5: it was not. And I think that was the thing 223 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 5: that resonated. 224 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 4: Totally, was that, like the big the general response you 225 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: got back to being like yes, I wish like I 226 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 4: wish I didn't care, but I do care, or like 227 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 4: just yes I feel like this and I know that 228 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 4: I shouldn't care, but I do and it bothers me. Yeah, totally. 229 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 4: I felt like I got so I was on TV 230 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: as a political commentator, like when I was gaining weight, 231 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 4: when I was on the whole time, and I got 232 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 4: a comment back from a producer when I was like, 233 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 4: so I had just gone back from eternity by just 234 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 4: gone back on TV, and a comment from a producer 235 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 4: to my agent saying, you know, if Emily doesn't look 236 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: a little better, it's gonna be hard for us to 237 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 4: book her. 238 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: Oof. 239 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 4: I know it was so brutal and like, to be fair, 240 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 4: I look. 241 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 5: Back in the horrible that's like that did kind of well, 242 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 5: that's hard. 243 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: That I did also look like a mess, but that's 244 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: because like not my clo fin like I was a mess. 245 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: I looked very I don't. 246 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 5: Know I don't approve of that at all. 247 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: Well, I really appreciate that support, but no, it was 248 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 4: like the I looked like a mess because I was 249 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 4: a mess, and like it was the hardest thing for 250 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 4: me to hear in that moment. It took me multiple 251 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 4: more years than to have the brain space to be 252 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 4: able to actually feel like I could focus on it, 253 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: and like, like weight does fluctuate, Like it fluctuates all 254 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 4: the time, like depending on the weather, and like if 255 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 4: I'm going to a lot of kids' birthday parties, like 256 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 4: I will get down with that cold pizza more definitely 257 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 4: more than any other child in the room. 258 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it means a really complicated space because I think 259 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 5: there's been so much move towards sort of trying to 260 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 5: accept that like this is that that kind of comment 261 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 5: is just totally not okay, and that in fact, like 262 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 5: we do need to move to a place where like 263 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 5: we are not fetishizing thinness and the way that we 264 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 5: have in the past. 265 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 4: I think that's like really. 266 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 5: Important, but it is also hard when you have spent 267 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 5: your whole life getting to there to be like, wow, 268 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 5: that's that's fine. Actually what's interesting is for me, like 269 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 5: doing all this running has in some ways, like been 270 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 5: quite good because it is very clear that like correctly 271 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 5: nourishing oneself is important for running fast. I run like 272 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 5: not to be thinner, but to go fast and like 273 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 5: run fast and so so that has been very helpful. 274 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 5: And even though it is often associated with like, oh, 275 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 5: runners have a lot of eating issues, that is that 276 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 5: is true for me, It's actually almost the opposite. And 277 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 5: the other response I got to that post was so 278 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 5: my friends were runners who were like, but you're running PRS, 279 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 5: Like who cares? 280 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 4: Which I was like, very it was like very nicely. 281 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 5: One of my friends, a professional runner, was like, but 282 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 5: you're running PRS, so who cares? 283 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 4: Another Okay, well, Molly says it probably I love So. 284 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 4: I actually also started running in the last couple of years, 285 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 4: Like it was part of my like get back into 286 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 4: shape was to start running. And I run for exactly 287 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 4: the opposite reason. I am the slowest, sloppiest runner, the slowest. 288 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 4: I'm real slow. I have to tell you, like the 289 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 4: height of my running. I did my first, my second 290 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 4: five K that I've ever done. I did one like 291 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 4: ten years ago. I did it locally, and I still 292 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 4: needed to do like an entire Broadway Show album to 293 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 4: make Me Through, like to get through a five K, 294 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 4: Like I am so slow, But that's not at all 295 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 4: what it's about. Like it's about me being outside and 296 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 4: being able to work out. Like my kids are still 297 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 4: six four and two, so like a lot of touching, 298 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 4: a lot of mommy if I'm paying adequate attention to 299 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 4: one and the other two are like, well I better 300 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 4: get in throw something like I better do something pretty 301 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 4: extreme to get that dominated attention. So like working out 302 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 4: outside is actually the only way that I can work 303 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 4: out and have a clear head. So like that's more 304 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 4: what it's about for me. But if I gave myself 305 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 4: the metric of running fast, it would become the most 306 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 4: depressing thing I did that day. Yeah, it's interesting. 307 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 5: I mean I think it's like I'm like running has 308 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 5: been very many things for me, including what you describe, 309 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 5: and I think now my kids are older, it's like 310 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 5: a little bit easier to be like, Okay, well maybe 311 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 5: I can try to like go faster, and then I'm 312 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 5: gotting I'm old, so it's like hard to go faster. 313 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 4: But I interviewed Alison Felix. Ah, yes, I'm not as 314 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 4: fast as Alison Felix. I'm not that's not a goal 315 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: that I'm in corporating. I'm not trying to get towards. 316 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 4: My dream for that interview was that we would do 317 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: it in person and then we would running. Yeah, like 318 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 4: I would be the real life version of that meme. 319 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 4: That's like the Olympics would be a lot better if 320 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 4: we could see a regular person run alongside them. She 321 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 4: passed on that I'm amazing, amazing, I'm disappointing. It's gonna 322 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 4: be a real shock to everyone that she did not 323 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 4: want to run against me. But I did like everything 324 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 4: I possibly could when I was in LA to nail 325 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 4: her down. Like they're like, oh, Alison's really busy this week. 326 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 4: I was like, but I just I just needed to 327 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 4: run like a little like just her yard, like just 328 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 4: the legs of the block. And they were not interested. Shockingly, 329 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 4: So what do you feel, like, what do you want 330 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 4: people who are following to take away from like all 331 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 4: the content that you're putting out. 332 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 5: So the main thing, ultimately I want people to take 333 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 5: away is a better understanding of data and how data 334 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 5: can be helpful in making decisions. And I think that 335 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 5: that's huge amount of what I do in my newsletter 336 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 5: writing and my book writing is kind of that piece 337 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 5: of it is like you saw this scary study. So 338 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 5: like a good example is like I got a million 339 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 5: DMS emails whatever. When the Washington Post the other day 340 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 5: was like ultra processed foods give you a varying cancer, 341 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 5: and like don't eat breakfast cereal is there's a lot 342 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 5: of that that comes through. You know, I will of 343 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 5: course write about that and talk about that in the 344 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 5: newsletter and explain why that's you know, like hot garbage. 345 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 5: But what I would like is for when people where 346 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 5: I want to get to is when people see that 347 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 5: they don't have to send it to me. They're just like, oh, 348 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 5: Emily's already told me the like observational studies are bad, 349 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 5: and I can look at this table and realize that 350 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 5: this paper is really flawed, and so I'm just going 351 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 5: to move on with my life. 352 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 4: That's like where I want to get to. 353 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, And so what I'm doing is sort of moving. 354 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: I'm trying to move in that direction. 355 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 5: I think part of what we're trying to combine, and 356 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 5: you know, this is still very much a kind of 357 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 5: work and progress is sort of how do you bring 358 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 5: people along on that and make it not like a 359 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 5: class on econometrics. I know how to teach a class 360 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 5: at economicis I'm a job, you know, I've totally but 361 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 5: people don't want to take that class. 362 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 4: That's a requirement actually at my university. 363 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 5: So we need to like figure out how do you 364 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 5: how do I bring people in so they can see 365 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 5: some of that, so that content starts getting into people's 366 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 5: heads and helps people move forward. 367 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 4: It helps you make better decisions. 368 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 5: But also it's like and relatable and they're sort of 369 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 5: they feel like they're getting it from somebody who they 370 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 5: trust and are willing to come along a little bit 371 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 5: with the with the econometrics. 372 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:03,119 Speaker 4: So that's the balance. I mean, it's such an interesting 373 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 4: parenting lens on the problem with disinformation now that like 374 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: we don't know which sources to trust, we don't know 375 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 4: what is a real study. There was a huge I 376 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 4: don't know, like you're going back to COVID, but like 377 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 4: there was a huge fight in my school last year 378 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 4: among the parents because the school put in a vaccine 379 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 4: mandate once they approved the five to twelve and there 380 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 4: was a big movement of parents who were pulling out 381 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 4: studies saying that the vaccine caused problems in kids that 382 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 4: they were not willing to subject their parents to. We 383 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 4: had a parent who works as like a biomedical engineer, 384 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 4: and so she went through study by study and she 385 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,239 Speaker 4: was like, not one of these studies would hold up 386 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 4: in any way. So we had our own Emily. I 387 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 4: guess like resident and expert. I'm probably more of an expert, yes, 388 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 4: in the mechanics. But interestingly, the parents that were reading 389 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 4: the studies were not interested in what she had to say, 390 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 4: like they did not respect her as an expert. So 391 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 4: I think, like, who is the expert is a huge 392 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 4: part of the problem. 393 00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 5: I agree, And I think one of the things we 394 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 5: saw very much during COVID was sort of people glomming 395 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 5: on to their own experts and sort of their own 396 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 5: I'm going to follow this expert or I'm going to 397 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 5: sort of be following this person. 398 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 4: I think part of what we're trying to do. 399 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 5: A little bit in this space is sort of think 400 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 5: about people as not that people are their own experts, 401 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: but that there is a component of some of these 402 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 5: kind of parenting decisions in particular, And I wouldn't put 403 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 5: vaccines necessarily in this category, but that for many kinds 404 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 5: of parenting decisions, there's a piece of the data where 405 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 5: you really want to understand that and sort of use 406 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 5: it productively. But also that some of these decisions are 407 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 5: really driven by your own preferences, and so there's a 408 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 5: sense in which, like the data is sort of empowering 409 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,479 Speaker 5: you to make a choice that works for you. But 410 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 5: you know, I think that when we come to something 411 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 5: like vaccines and we're sort of up against people listening 412 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 5: to disinformation in a way that is not. 413 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 4: That is not always so helpful. Yeah, well, I so 414 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 4: appreciate that. I was so freaked out about getting pregnant, 415 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 4: and so freaked out as in, once I was pregnant, 416 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 4: I thought, oh my god, I have no understanding of 417 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: what is happening to my body, what is happening inside 418 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 4: didn't be Like nothing I have done in my life 419 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 4: has prepared me for this moment that I actually ran 420 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 4: away from. Like I didn't read a book, I didn't 421 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 4: go to a class. I'm like the opposite. 422 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 5: I was like, I have right now. 423 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 4: I was like I got to write a book about this, 424 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 4: Like this is I'm like leaning in, We're gonna do 425 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 4: it all. I leaned out. I was like, I won't ignite. 426 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 4: I actually went into labor two weeks early with my 427 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 4: first I didn't have a bag packed. We didn't go 428 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 4: to the hospital for hours. I walked the dogs while 429 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 4: I was having contractions. I was like, let's just see 430 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 4: if we can ignore this and it'll go away. I 431 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 4: was on CNN the day that I went into labor 432 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 4: because I was like, I was like, they told me 433 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 4: it's two weeks. I have to It's how it works, right, 434 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 4: Like it's a calendar, get totally booked TV totally. I 435 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 4: was like, not a prop. I think. I was like 436 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 4: on the way to the hospital, like texting, like canceling 437 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 4: my hit that day because I was like, oh, I 438 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 4: have two weeks that they say it's two weeks. It's 439 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 4: two weeks, right, Like I didn't know anything, but I 440 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 4: do feel like I feel like the way that you 441 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 4: present the information, so like I'm not really an overreactor. 442 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 4: And my husband is even less so than me. And 443 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 4: it's funny. So when I say that to other moms, 444 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 4: the response they always give me is like, oh, well, 445 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 4: it's good to have you know, like that balance, And 446 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 4: I'm like, no, no, I'm not an overreactor. Like neither 447 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: of us react and like, maybe in not a great way, 448 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 4: but I do feel like it's made me more confident 449 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 4: in my parenting because I did trust my gut to 450 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 4: some degree, although it may be very depressed from any 451 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 4: For the first couple of years, I didn't know what 452 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 4: I was doing. But I feel like finding your voice 453 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 4: as an expert has helped give me confidence in that 454 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 4: that like I drank coffee the whole time, I had 455 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 4: wine the whole time, I didn't try to sleep in 456 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 4: bed and my kids I wanted to sleep, like I 457 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 4: didn't really think about it. So I feel like being 458 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 4: able to trust that I had something in there and 459 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 4: like I wouldn't call it maternal instinct, I still feel 460 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 4: like I have very little of that, but that I 461 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 4: could trust my decisions. It wasn't mine, I guess is 462 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 4: the points you're making. 463 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think that phrasing of sort of trusting 464 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 5: your decisions, I think that is a huge piece of 465 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 5: confident parenting. A lot of what brings up anxiety for 466 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 5: those of us who are not very relaxed like you 467 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 5: is the feeling like we're doing it wrong. And I 468 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 5: think that often comes from sort of hearing other people 469 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 5: and maybe not feeling like we've thought through our decisions enough. 470 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 5: And then somebody says they're doing something different, and rather 471 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 5: than saying, well, I thought about this decision and I'm 472 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 5: confident that this is the right choice for me, we 473 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 5: sort of move into a place of oh my gosh, 474 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 5: maybe I'm doing it wrong, and I think about how 475 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 5: to do it differently, and should I change everything that 476 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 5: I'm doing. And some of what we're trying to deliver 477 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 5: is is that confidence of you know, yeah, there are 478 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 5: a lot of good choices, and you made the choice 479 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 5: that's good for you, and that's great, and now you 480 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 5: can just move forward. And if somebody else made a 481 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 5: different choice, it doesn't mean your choice is wrong. Just 482 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,719 Speaker 5: means that they made a different choice. And people make 483 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 5: different choices. Yeah, I think that's it. Like, it doesn't 484 00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 5: mean that your choice is wrong. It doesn't mean that 485 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 5: their choice was wrong. It's just like, what is going 486 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 5: to work? 487 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 4: And by the way, I feel like I don't want 488 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 4: to give this perception that I'm like I was like 489 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 4: such a relaxed especially of younger kids. Nah, I get 490 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 4: it right. It was more than I was like overwhelmed 491 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 4: by it and so I just like couldn't let it 492 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 4: seep in because I felt like I was doing it 493 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 4: wrong all the time. Especially with little babies, it's hard 494 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 4: to know if you're doing it wrong, like oh, they're 495 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 4: just gonna cry a little and it'll be fine, or 496 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 4: if you're doing it wrong. I mean, this is like 497 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 4: a real thing that happened last week, is that I 498 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 4: was like, Oh, my two year old's cut seems like 499 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 4: it's getting kind of bad, so I should maybe be 500 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 4: concerned about it. And so I sent a picture to 501 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 4: the pediatrician and she called me back immediately and she 502 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: was like, you need to go to the hospital. And 503 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 4: I was like, ah, yes, still knocking out it of 504 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 4: the park with my gut instinct parenting decisions. 505 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 5: I once cut my finger really badly and I got stitches, 506 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 5: and then I sort of woke up. 507 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 4: This is not the LONGNGO. I like woke up in 508 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 4: the morning one morning. 509 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 5: He was like, oh, it looks a little more swollen 510 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 5: than it did. And I texted like five o' the morning, 511 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 5: four were running. I like texted a picture of my doctor, 512 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 5: who fortunately is also my friend, and she called me 513 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 5: at like five point fifteen and she was like yeah, geat, 514 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 5: I go to the hospital right now. I was like, okay, 515 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 5: She's like, I'm calling you because I didn't want to 516 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 5: freak you out with my text, but like, please get 517 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 5: in the car right now. 518 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 4: I'm going off. Yeah, don't you love those You're like, okay, 519 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 4: You're like my real chill approach to this that's infected 520 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: backfire just a little bit. When I went to go 521 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 4: meet with our local because I did. I met with 522 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 4: our local assembly member about our local housing issues. They 523 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 4: tried to give me directions to where they are and 524 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, no, no, no, I know exactly 525 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 4: where you are. You are in the same building as 526 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 4: the only dermatologists who will see children because my children 527 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 4: had impetigo passing it between each other for eight weeks 528 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 4: last year, the never ending poetic So that's bad. That's bad. Yeah. 529 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 4: I was like, so, I'm extremely familiar with your location. 530 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 4: I've been there many many times. In that case, I 531 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 4: was like, but like I only started taking to them 532 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 4: to the doctor once. I was like, we're going into 533 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: month two. Should we be concerned? Like now we got 534 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,719 Speaker 4: to like go do something, Yeah, we should. I think 535 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 4: it was after I kept trying to send my kids 536 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 4: to school, and this school kept sending them home that 537 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 4: I was like, I guess it's time to see a doctor. 538 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: I guess we've hit that time. So where do you 539 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 4: want to? You know, we connected through this great friend 540 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 4: of ours, Marissa Lee, who's written an incredible book, Reef 541 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 4: Is Love. That was really interesting to me that you 542 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 4: were guys were talking about doing an event together and 543 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 4: talking together. Given both of your like individual platforms. Where's 544 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 4: that a conversation that you're you're looking to take? 545 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that we'll conversations always go 546 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 5: in directions, But I think that what she and I 547 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 5: have talked about is the sort of challenge of parenting 548 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 5: when you were grieving. And you know, I lost my 549 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 5: mom last year, which is actually when she and I 550 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 5: first connected, partly because her book is so amazing and 551 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 5: she's just like, like lovely, and there were many very 552 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 5: hard things about losing a parent, and one of them 553 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 5: is that you have to kind of keep going with 554 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 5: your kids in a moment in which you kind of 555 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 5: just want mom but she dead, And that feeling of 556 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 5: like how do I keep going with my kids? And 557 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 5: loss of a parent, I think is something many of 558 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 5: us will experience, but there are other things in that category. 559 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 5: You know, people have a miscarriage or like a God 560 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 5: forbid a loss of a partner, Like they just that 561 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 5: there are many things that happen, many pieces of grief, 562 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 5: where as a parent you have to keep going, and 563 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 5: I think that some of sort of talking through what 564 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 5: can one do there and how can we sort of 565 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 5: help people think about the right way to come at 566 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 5: that for themselves. 567 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 4: And I think that applies to parenting across the board. 568 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: Like obviously they're in a very intense and extreme way 569 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 4: when it's something very you know, rocking to your core, 570 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 4: like the loss of a parent or a death that's 571 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: been very human. But I also feel like when people 572 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 4: say that kids have made them feel another side of 573 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,479 Speaker 4: themselves or like explored another side of themselves and more 574 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 4: resilient in themselves, that's a piece of it as well, 575 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 4: Like there are so many moments when all I want 576 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 4: to do is curl in the ball reflect block out 577 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 4: the world, and my kids are sensing something and want 578 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 4: more of me in that moment, Like the strength to 579 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 4: rise to the occasion for them, I think is not 580 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 4: something that I had necessarily before I had kids old 581 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 4: enough to need it. Yeah, no, I totally I resonate 582 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 4: with that as well. Is there anything else that you 583 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 4: want to leave our listeners with Just that data is 584 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 4: great and that you two can use data in your parenting. 585 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 4: And I think that it's part of confidence. 586 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 5: But just helping people think about, you know, being confident 587 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 5: in the choices that they make is a big piece of. 588 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 4: What I want to be setting out in the world. 589 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 4: I love that. And we have a lot of people 590 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 4: who are pivoting careers. Any data based advice for them, 591 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 4: I don't think it's any database advice. I think that 592 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: the decision making advice is pivoting careers is great and 593 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 4: just thinking through those hard decisions in a kind of 594 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 4: structured way and making sure that you're kind of thinking 595 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 4: about the angles before you make choices. That's my main thought. 596 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 4: I love it. Thank you so much, Emily, thanks for 597 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 4: joining us. Thank you so much. This is a treat. 598 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 4: Thank you. Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode 599 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 4: of sheep Pivots. Check back in weekly for more conversations 600 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: with inspiring women. To learn more about our guests, follow 601 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 4: us on Instagram at she pivots. The podcast she Pivots 602 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 4: is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced by Emily 603 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 4: eda Veloshik, with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollock, 604 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 4: and research and planning for Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins. 605 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 6: I endorseh che Pivots get the best workout with the 606 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 6: best kept secret in fitness, Hydro, the state of the 607 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 6: art at home rower. Hydro engages eighty six percent of 608 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 6: your muscles, delivering the ultimate full body workout in just 609 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 6: twenty minutes from advance to beginner. 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