1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Just when you think crime cannot will not happen to you, 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: it does in a flash, and there are no second chances. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: I can't stop predators from coming into this world. I 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: can't stop crime all alone, but I can sound the 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: warning and I can pass on to you what I 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: have learned about keeping you and your family safe. And 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: that's why we are announcing a brand new online course, 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Justice Nation, Crime Stops Here. This brand new five episode 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: video series allows you to go at your own pace 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: as world class experts in personal safety and child protection 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: share life saving tips and resources all for you. Get 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: action information that you can apply to your everyday life 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: with a focus on preparation not panic. Go to Nancy 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: Grace dot com now use promo code Nancy to get 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: off for your sake, for the sake of your children, 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: your family, and the people you love. Know what to do, 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: know when to do it, and how to do it. 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: Class begins Tuesday, October sixteen. Got a Nancy Grace dot 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: com and register using promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He told the jury that this was like 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: a puzzle, Yes, sir, and it took you basically four 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: years to put this puzzle together, Yes, Sir. Intelligence analyst 23 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: James Paul Rowland says his process for the investigation is 24 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: similar to making a thousand piece puzzle. Sometimes you must 25 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: put pieces off to the side and then bring them 26 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: back in. He says that's exactly what he did with 27 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: Quentin tell Us. He would either give us a different 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: time frame or say it didn't happen until we presented 29 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: him with data that conflicted he was saying, and then 30 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: he would change his story. Raoul had presented a power 31 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: point presentation with cell phone data and surveillance video showing 32 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: almost every move Chambers and tell Us made. This is 33 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: the last time we will ever, suggested cheers. When all 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: this evidence was shown to tell Us, he started remembering 35 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: the details of that fatal night. Until then, investigators say 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: they believe he was withholding information. Do people have a 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: reason to lie? Are they be deceptive? They do? And 38 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: what would would that reason be because they're guilty. You 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: are hearing the very latest out of the courtroom. That 40 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: is our friend reporter Alexa Lorenzo at Fox thirteen in 41 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: MVAS describing what's going down in the court of law. 42 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: We have all been watching and waiting as a trial 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: regarding the murder death by lighter fluid. It was first 44 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: called of a teen girl cheerleader in Mississippi. I Ancy, Grace, 45 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 46 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: We are bringing you the very latest out of that courtroom. 47 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: With me is ter Rests April from the Clarion Ledger, 48 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, judge, lawyer, founder of child Crimewatch dot com, 49 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: Cock turned p I, Vincent Hill, renowned medical examiner Dr 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: Jan Gorniac, and Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, Professor Forensics 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, death investigator and author of Blood Beneath 52 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: My Feet Straight out to Terress April with a Clarion Ledger. 53 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: You know, this guy has changed his story so many times. 54 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: I've tried to keep a flow chart of it. Terress 55 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: and his latest story, and I'm gonna start at the 56 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: facts from the beginning. Just a moment, but I've got 57 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: to react to what's happening in the courtroom because one 58 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: of his latest story is he was burned. Now we 59 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: know the victim was burned head to toe, basically the 60 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: bottom of her feet or one of the only parts 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: of her body that were unburned. She's wandering on the 62 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: side of the road, completely charred. Witnesses says she looked 63 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: like a sixty year old woman or here was a fuzzball. 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Her skin was falling off her face, She was burned alive. 65 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: This guy, according to cell phone records, was with her 66 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: all the way through that afternoon and into the evening, 67 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: actually tells police that he got burn marks on his 68 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: arms from jumping over a bonfire. Did Did I get 69 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: that correctly to us? Yes? And it was interesting, Um, 70 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people were freaking out through the prosecution 71 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: didn't bring that out more. Um. But again in the 72 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: trial last year, they didn't even play that clip. This 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: year they allowed it to play. But the problem was 74 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: that tell Us had this story about jumping over the bonfire, 75 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: and they couldn't disprove that that was where the burns 76 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: came from. However, I've talked to a few that say 77 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: that they believe that he jumped over the bonfire and 78 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: fell into it in order to cover the burns from 79 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: that night. That doesn't even make sense that you jump 80 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: over a bonfire and then you fall part of the 81 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: way back in straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, author 82 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath my feet J Scott. When you are 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: looking at a person's body, or when you are calculating 84 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: a story like this, what type of evidence would you 85 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: be looking for to confirm or refute that he got 86 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: burned from jumping over a bonfire the very same night 87 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: that this woman who he had been pestering for sex 88 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: happened to burn to death. I think probably the key 89 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: thing that you would want to look for is the 90 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: severity of the burns. Are they consistent with someone that 91 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: would have been present, say, for instance, one of Uh, 92 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: if you're talking about like the use of an accelerant 93 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: like lighter fluid, if it flashed over you know how 94 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: it suddenly explode, explodes like this when it comes in 95 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: contact with fire, Uh, these gases and and is that consistent? 96 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: Or he falls, you know, like our reporter was referring to, 97 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: he he falls into the bonfire and places his arms 98 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: there for a protracted period of time. Those types of 99 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: injuries are going to have a different appearance to them. 100 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: Joining me is Fulton County Medical Examiner Dr. Gene Gornea, 101 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: Dr Cornet. I've prosecuted a lot of arson cases, but 102 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: all my victims were dead. Um, they didn't get to 103 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: say anything or speak the way Jessica Chambers did. My 104 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: point is Quentin tell Us is very much alive, the 105 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: guy charged in her murder. What would you expect to 106 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: see on his body if he had actually jumped over 107 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: a bonfire? Well, there's so many variables that are gonna 108 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: have to come into play. One, how big with the fire, 109 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So if you're thinking about 110 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, his whole body is going through When you 111 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: think of those those fault bonfires you know in the 112 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: back yard that they can get pretty big. One down 113 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: on the beach and get pretty big. So one, why 114 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: would you jump through a fire? That would be one. 115 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: But what is he wearing? Um, I would more expect 116 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: maybe lower I mean you're jumping over, you expect injuries 117 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: to the lower half of the body before you something 118 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: to the to the arms. But not knowing where the 119 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: burns are on his on his arms, I'm not sure. 120 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: Is it the palms of his hands, because that would 121 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: be consistent with falling in because instinctively we'll put our 122 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: hands out. So does he have burns to his palms 123 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: or does he have burns to his his forearms? So 124 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: it just depends on where the burns are there's so 125 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: man imparable. I said, Nancy, how big is the fire? 126 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: What type of clothes was he wearing? And you know, 127 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: was he in shorts? Was he in long pants? Same thing? 128 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: So just like um, the investigator says, it's just you'll 129 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: see from patterns of burns depending on what what he did. 130 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: You know, all you're a judge, all your Can we 131 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: just get real for a moment. I mean, I can 132 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: get bogged down and the experts because they know about 133 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: burn marks so intricately. But Ashley, really, seriously, he's with 134 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: this girl the whole day, he's on the phone, he's 135 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: pestering her for sex, goes on and on and on, 136 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: she say no. And then the night that she is 137 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: burned alive to her death. This teen girl, Okay, my 138 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: daughter is about to turn eleven? Is is my son? 139 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: So is yours? Ashley, yours just turned eleven, And you 140 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: want to tell me that within a couple of hours 141 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: he gets burned in a bonfire. Really, I don't believe 142 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: in that coincidence. And often when I hear cases, there 143 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: is no thing as a coincidence, right, it is a 144 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: bunch of crap. And the other piece of that is 145 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: don't forget he changed his story so many times that 146 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: that is after they finally got him from No, I 147 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: didn't see her. I wasn't with her too. Oh yeah, 148 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: I was with her for the day. So no, it 149 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: is a bunch of crap. I mean, Vincent Hill caught 150 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: hern p I can we all just get real just 151 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: for a moment. He wants me to believe that this 152 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: girl that I would say, I think they should have 153 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: added a rape charge myself because she said no, no, no, 154 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: no no no. By the way, he deleted all the 155 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: texts as to sex. And then suddenly she's in a 156 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: car with a seat pushed back and she's been uh 157 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: set on fire. And he says within the hour he's 158 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: jumping over a bonfire and got burned. What what about 159 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: the rest of his body? How come his arms, which 160 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: is what would have gotten on fire if he had 161 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: set a gasolene fire, I mean it would have been burned. 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Vincent, the voice of reason helped me out 163 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: here for Pete's sake. Yeah, Nancy, I don't believe anyone's 164 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: buying this bonfires stories. But more importantly than that, not 165 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: only did he change his story, he changed his clothes 166 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: from earlier in that day. Now he claims he wants 167 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: to go take a shower. But I guess if you 168 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: had gasoline all over you, you'd want to take a shower. 169 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Nancy, the cell phone data does not 170 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: lie he It shows he was with Jessica up unto 171 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: a certain point. His phone wasn't silent for several minutes, 172 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: almost an hour, and then his phone is acted again. 173 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: That would leave very little time for someone to do 174 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: this crime of opportunity with Jessica unless it was the 175 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: last person known to be with her. You know, the 176 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: whole cell phone data issue is just a whole another 177 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: can of worms. So before I jump into that can 178 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,359 Speaker 1: of worms, that barrel of snakes, which I think nails him, 179 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: totally nails him, because to disbelieve the phone records, which 180 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to get into, you have to believe that 181 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: he was in touch with her and around her all 182 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: day and then there at the end, right when she 183 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: gets set on fire and dies, somebody else suits in 184 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: and kills her. H Listen, it looked like a zombie 185 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: walking towards us, Because I'm in the way she was walking. 186 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: She wasn't walking fast, her hands are out front over 187 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: one first responder after the other testified. Jessica Chambers looked awful, 188 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: horrific with burns over of her body. Back out to 189 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: to rest, April with the clarion ledger. Just tell me 190 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: to rest. What happened over the weekend. I mean they 191 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: went through trial the whole weekend. While we were at 192 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: soccer games, in the grocery store and grilling out, they 193 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: were hard at work in the courthouse going forward with 194 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: this case. Now. I respect that I tried a lot 195 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: of cases over the weekend, and it hurts even more 196 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: when you know your family is at home, you know, 197 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: grilling out, and you're in the courtroom. But they didn't 198 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: give up. Tell me what happened, you know what start 199 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: at the beginning to rest for people just joining us. 200 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Tell me the story of Jessica Chambers. Well, she was 201 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old girl in Panola County, Mississippi. Um, 202 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: she had recently been getting her life back together. She's 203 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: been in a rehab for a little while and um 204 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: she's gotten a job and everything like that. And at 205 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: some point she comes across Quentin tell Us. Um. Prosecutors 206 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: believed that they had only known each other a week 207 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: when this happened. Um, one night, they the fire department 208 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: gets the call of a burning car. They go out 209 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: there thinking they're going to a routine car fire, and 210 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: they find her there. Wait a minute, wait, wh wh 211 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: why you probably left this out because you don't consider 212 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: it important. But wasn't she caught on surveillance video at 213 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: a gas station and is tell us in that video 214 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: before the fire breaks out. Well, it depends on which 215 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: video you're talking about. Um, there are multiple videos from 216 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: the gas station, but the last one where you can 217 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: see her. Um, he is not in that video, and 218 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: that was part of that's part of one of the 219 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: things that the defense is trying to capitalize on. But 220 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: throughout the day you see the two of them, and 221 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: throughout that week, Um, you know that that was where 222 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: everybody hung out. So, yes, she was on the video 223 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: from the gas station, and tell Us himself had been 224 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: on that video multiple times that day as well, at 225 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: the same time she was in one situation. Yes, Um, 226 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: well there's a place where you can tell that she 227 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: is off camera. She pulls in after he has walked 228 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: off Canada. So it's um, it's a little convoluted, but yes, 229 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: they can put them there at the same time. Okay, 230 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: so remind me to circle back to rest a poll 231 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: Clarion Ledger to those cell phone records. But anyway, long 232 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: story short, they have been texting and hanging around throughout 233 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: the day. We know he's been pestering her for sex. 234 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: She's saying no, no, no, no no. Okay, lead me 235 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: up to that evening. Okay, that evening she has they 236 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: have gone to Batestille together. Now, Quentin's first story was 237 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: that he wasn't with her at all. His next story 238 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: was that, yeah, they both went to Taco Bell, but 239 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: he rode in a different truck and they followed her 240 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 1: to Taco Bell, at which point he got out in 241 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: an adjacent parking lot and got in the car and 242 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: went through the drive through with her, and then got 243 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: back out and got in the other car. Right, Sorry 244 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: to break in. Got a question. He went through the 245 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: drive through with the burn victim, the teen girl, Jessica Chambers. 246 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: What time was that and is their video of that? Um? 247 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: There is no video in the drive through. Oh, this 248 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: goes down on the burning goes down around UM seven 249 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: thirty correct. H Yeah, So if he's with her in 250 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: the late afternoon. I've never heard Vincent hillth what the hey, 251 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: a taco bell with no surveillance video, I've never heard 252 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: of it. Well, I think the problem, Nancy is, uh 253 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: police didn't find out about until much later. Well somebody 254 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: somebody had to use their credit card or their a 255 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: t M. I'm guessing. But okay, you know what, I 256 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: can't get bogged down in the cops not getting the 257 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: surveillance video because I would really have liked to see 258 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: the surveillance video, Ashley Wilcott. I mean, in this day 259 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: and age, people think they're in a c s I 260 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: TV program. They are expecting video. They're expecting uh, sent 261 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: dogs and DNA and touch DNA and an impact. I mean, 262 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: if there's video and you don't produce it, that makes 263 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: a very bad impression. Ashley. Ye, it does, because the 264 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: assumption is going to be and I think it's a 265 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: fair one. There is no video, There is no proof 266 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: that they were on video together. But remember in this case, Nancy, 267 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: this is all, as we all know, circumstantial evidence, and 268 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: so the prosecution's job is to put together every little 269 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: piece of circumstantial evidence to say there's no clear conclusion 270 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: other than the fact he did it. That's the only 271 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: conclusion you can reach based on the evidence. So if 272 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: you look, even without the video, if you look at 273 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: all the evidence together, I think the prosecution is presented 274 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: a very strong case to say the only conclusion you 275 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: can make jury is that he did this. You know, 276 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: we are going through with a fine tooth comb the 277 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: evidence as it is pouring from the witness stand In 278 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: the case of Quentin tell Us in the murder of 279 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: a teen girl cheerleader in Mississippi, Jessica Chambers, what a 280 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: horrific death he passers by, describes her staggering down the 281 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: side of the road. I'll tell you what I think happened, 282 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: and so do police. Um that after the what I 283 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: believe to have been a rape in the car, he 284 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: strangled her, thought she was dead, came back and doused 285 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: the car to hide the evidence, and burned her aligne. 286 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: She gets out, tries to get away, and the rest 287 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: is history. As we get bobbed down in all of 288 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: these facts which you have to do to try a case, 289 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: I want you to remember who we're talking about. Listen 290 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: to Jessica's mother. Would you tell the jury about Jessica 291 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: growing up? She was just a lovely child. She like 292 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: to play softball, She liked to cheer um, just so 293 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: loving chow. Did she go to Did she attend a 294 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: local school here? Yes she did. She grabs a cheerleader, 295 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: Yes she was. Did she graduate from South panolahskold. Can 296 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: you tell the jury what her age was at the 297 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: time of her desk? Take a listen to Jessica's dad, 298 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: Ben Chambers, telling me at Hilling what happened at the hospital? 299 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: What do you remember about that drive to try to 300 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: get to your daughter. Uh, it was just, you know, 301 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: I was just steady praying the Lord it should be okay, 302 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: you know. Uh, and what you know, just begging her, 303 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, just did not take her, you know, because 304 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: I just I just lost my son a year before 305 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: she got killed, you know, correct, And uh just you know, 306 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: my my whole world just shut down, you know, I mean, 307 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: just hearing you talk, I remember that that crazy attempt 308 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: to get there before he passed away. When you got there, 309 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: when you got to the hospital, what happened, Well, when 310 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: I got to the hospital, of I didn't even park 311 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: my vehicle. You have to you know, pay to get 312 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: in the park. I just parked in the middle of 313 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: the street to god, running into hospital or whatever. Of course, 314 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: when I got in there, I didn't nobody know nothing 315 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: about her anything. You got to get a bad itch. 316 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: And and then and finally I asked my said, where's 317 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: the Burns Center whatever? Where it's the part of the 318 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: burn Center. And you know, there's a way as upstairs, 319 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: down the hallway. And I just took off running, you know. 320 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: And a matter of fact, I went in places I 321 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to tea, you know, uh, trying to find her. 322 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: And did you know they didn't even know nothing about it. 323 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: And of course then they started calling around and they said, well, 324 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: wait a minute, the helicopters landing right now, you know. 325 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: And uh, and we had to wait, wait, wait, you know, 326 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: wait on the doctor. And seeming like it with the eternity, 327 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: you know, uh, and I did where the doctor. The 328 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: doctor come out. He couldn't do nothing before, you know, 329 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: she was too bad. When you finally you run in 330 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: the hospital, you're running up and down the halls, you're 331 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: trying to find her. You get there before the air 332 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: lift brings her there, and you finally see her. What 333 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: did you see? Well, I didn't I didn't get to 334 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: see her right then? You know that it was two 335 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: hours before we uh got to go back there, you know. 336 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: And the doctor come out and he told me, he said, 337 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: Mr Chambers, she don't want to see your daughter right 338 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: to Yes, I do. He said, No, you don't recognizable. 339 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: You know, you know she didn't recognize it. Uh. You know, 340 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: he said, you've never seen somebody if that bad could 341 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: live as long as she did. She had a strong heart. 342 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,239 Speaker 1: I mean she had and no names or nothing, uh 343 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: where they can even put the I vs in or nothing. 344 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: You know, Mr Chambers. Did you get to speak to 345 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: her before she went to heaven? No, no, you'd not. 346 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: Did you get to see her? I no, no, she 347 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: is if we got ready to go into the room 348 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: or whatever, my sister and her mother Lisa walk in 349 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: the rooms and to see they was in there maybe 350 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:33,239 Speaker 1: about thirty seconds, you know, she passed away. I can 351 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: tell you this, Mr Chambers, I believe with all of 352 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: my heart that she knew that you were there. Every 353 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: time I hear Being Chambers speaking with me, it just 354 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: breaks my heart all over again. To Ashley Wilcott joining me, 355 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: judge lawyer found her child crime watch dot com and 356 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: mother I mean, can you imagine flying as fast as 357 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: you can in the car to try to He actually 358 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: beat the helicopter there, Ashley, He beat the helicopter to 359 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: the big hospital burn unit. And was that that horrible? 360 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like a nightmare, running around the hospital getting 361 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: your badge, trying to find your daughter, only to be 362 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: told there's nothing that they can do to save her life. 363 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: I just can hardly stand hearing Ben Chambers recount that 364 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: to me. No, no, And so you and I would 365 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: walk on water for our kids, right and to get 366 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: to our kids. So that's what he did, basically, and 367 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: he gets there. And here's the thing to remember. You know, 368 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: burns are so not only dangerous and and and fatal, 369 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: especially in this case fatal, but they are so visible 370 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: and so um. I don't know how to say this 371 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: other though, I other than the smells. So if you've 372 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: ever been in a burn unit, it smells. I've been 373 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: in them. They smell differently than a hospital. It's a 374 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: whole different sensory experience. And the other piece of this is, 375 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: as you're flying for the hospital, it's natural think I've 376 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: got to get to my child. But you're never gonna 377 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: think because the burns are so bad, she's going to die. Instead, 378 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: you think I've got to get there. She's been burned, 379 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: We've got to get her treated, We've got to get 380 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: to the hospital. You never would think. I would never 381 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: think I've got to get there because my child's gonna 382 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: die because of the burns. I would think I've got 383 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: to get there so we can get her help, you know, 384 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: to Dr Jeanne Gorni at Fulton County Medical Examiner renowned 385 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: doctor Dr Gorne act, I remember when my fiancee was murdered. 386 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of already knew he had passed away, 387 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: but yet I didn't. And I kept thinking, if I 388 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: can just get to him, I can fix it. I can, 389 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: I can just fix it. And I couldn't fix it. 390 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to figure out when. Why when your 391 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: skin is burned to that extent, like almost your entire 392 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: body except for the soul, your fate essentially, why does 393 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: that make your heart and your internal organs shut dawn? 394 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: Why do you die because your skin is all burned. 395 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: The thing is, depending on the severity of the burns. 396 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: We talk about partial thickness and full thickness, or most 397 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: people know about first degree, second gree, third degree. Well, 398 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: when you are have severe enough burns, not just the 399 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: severity of the burns, it's the percentage of your body. 400 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: So some people can get a third degree burn on 401 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: their leg and it's like ten of their body. But 402 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: when you have eight of your body burns, your your 403 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: body is gonna shut down. Try to one um send 404 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: oxygen and blood to your heart, your brain, but you 405 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: die from dehydration because the fluid is leaking out from 406 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: from the consequence of the burns. You can die from 407 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: infection in this case, I truly believe that's really the burn, 408 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: the burn for secondary. But we know her airway was compromised. 409 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: We know at whether there was the hot gases from 410 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: the fire, and so that's what's really causing her death. Unfortunately, 411 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: I hate to be so graphic or you know, distinct, 412 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: but it's her airway and so when you can't breathe, 413 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: then obviously then oxygen isn't getting to the vital parts 414 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: of your body, and that's what causes people to die. 415 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: So either airway compromise or infection what I mean from 416 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: the clarion Ledger, he's been covering the trial from the 417 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: beginning to Rest April ter Rest. What is the jury's 418 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: reaction as this testimony is coming in? Have you been 419 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: watching them? Yes? And Um. One thing you notice about 420 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: the jury, especially compared to last year's jury, they are 421 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: hanging on every word in most cases. There have been 422 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: a couple of cross examinations that have gone long that 423 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: they've kind of phoned out, and there were some videos 424 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: of the interrogations where they were a little restless, But 425 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: for the most part, they've been right there through the 426 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: entire trial. It's it's in one of these things that 427 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: you're actually kind of it's actually interesting to see this 428 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: jury be so engaged and and you see them, you know, 429 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: taking notes in a couple of cases and that kind 430 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: of thing. Um. I believe they're going to be very 431 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: as much as you can take in this information in 432 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: a week, I believe they're going to be very informed 433 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: when they go back to to consider the verdict. You know, 434 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: the last jury hung it was a mistrial. So I 435 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: pray that this jury is alert and paying attention and 436 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: can reach a verdict. Um. I remember distinctly trying cases 437 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: and my investigator, Ernest and I would stay late in 438 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: to the evening and stand in front of that empty 439 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: jury box, and we would recount what we recall of 440 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: each juror. This one was nodding yes at this witness, 441 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: this one looks sleepy, this one, and we would count 442 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: up and make notes and charts of which gurrs we 443 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: thought we had with us already, and then if there 444 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: were some that we didn't think we're with us. I 445 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: would get right in front of that girard and look 446 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: at that gar specifically in the eyes as I question 447 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: the witness off to my right, I'll be looking at 448 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: that girr as I would try to make particular points 449 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: to hold it in. With the few gerrs I would 450 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: think we're not with me with the state, I want 451 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: to start with the evidence on the cell phone records. 452 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: We search those databases for every single person in Penola 453 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: County named Eric, Derek Jerrek, any form of that, and 454 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: we not only download their names, we downloaded information associated 455 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: with those individuals, their address history, those sorts of things, 456 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: their car registrations, and so we downloaded all of that 457 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: information and it again goes into my database, so as 458 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: we get leads later, I can bounce it off. That 459 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: information I remember, and I can't remember the exact date. 460 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: But once we had kind of you know, gone through 461 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: a lot of leads and a lot of that information, 462 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: I decided to actually do the same thing for all 463 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: of the counties that connect to Penola County and downloaded 464 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: that and the other day, just because I wanted to 465 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: do it, I actually went into my database and I 466 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: searched to see how many were ultimately in there, and 467 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: we had and this was from what I described to you, 468 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: plus any other information we collected, there were actually four 469 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight people in my database that had 470 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: some variation of that name that we could constantly bounce 471 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: information off of as it came into the task force. 472 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: And based on your analysis, did any of those four 473 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: d sixty people have any communication or contact with Jessica Cha? 474 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: They did not. I want to start with the evidence 475 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: on the cell phones. Listen what woke her up from 476 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: her neck? She either got a text message or a 477 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: phone call, I don't know which one. And how did 478 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: she respond to that text her phone call? She jumped up, 479 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: went to the bathroom and when should come out of 480 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: the bathroom She was on the phone talking and then 481 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: come out and said she was going to get her 482 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: something to eat clean her car and she'd be back 483 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. So she was spared of the phone 484 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: call and left and was she gone for a little while. 485 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: At some point in that evening, approximately six p m. 486 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: Did you speak to her by phone? Yes, sir? And 487 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: why did you speak to her by phone? Um? I 488 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: don't know if I called her she called. I don't 489 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: really know that part. But I asked her what she 490 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: was doing, and she said, get something to eat. And 491 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: that's really I'm gonna ask you. When you talked Jessica 492 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: was a nineteen year old kid christ when you normally 493 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: talked to her on the phone, what was the standard 494 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: atmosphere around her phone calls? A loud music, noises, the 495 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: normal teenage On this particular night, did you tell investigating 496 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: or something struck you odd about this phone call? It 497 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: was very quiet and just like no music, no noises 498 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: in the background or just quiet, maybe the windows down, 499 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: possibly nothing you couldn't It was like a silence, just her. 500 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? To me, it would 501 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: mean the way no one Jessica would be like somebody 502 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: was with her. You know. I couldn't tell you yes 503 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: or no, but that would be how I took her call. 504 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: We're just after the new Now we're on Friday, and 505 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: this is actually gonna be the text Center change, And 506 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you the video where she's trying to 507 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: get Quentin to give her some money for some food. 508 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna read all of this one for you, 509 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: but I'll let you interpret it for yourself. It's kind 510 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: of difficult, but basically here she's trying to say. My 511 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: interpretation of it is, will you give me some money 512 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: so I can go get something? His answer to that 513 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: here is can I you? And then he also text 514 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: her how much you need? But and she said, just 515 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: like six dollars? She says, where are you at? He 516 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: says I'm at home and she says I can come by, 517 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: and he says come now, and she says okay, and 518 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: she says, I'm I'm fixing the league. And then he 519 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: texts her, I'm waiting on you. Dress. April Clarion Ledger. 520 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: I know it's hard to do, but because she boiled 521 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: down the cell phone records that in my mind clinched 522 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: the case. Um well, the probably what clinched the case 523 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: was what they're calling the aha moment when they had 524 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: gotten the location data back on Quinton tell US's phone, 525 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: and they realized that his locations did not show what 526 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: he had told them, that he had told them a 527 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: whole different story. So Paul Ralett starts to look closely 528 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: at this information and find that tell Us his signal 529 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: is right on top of where Jessica's is. Um. Jessica's 530 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: was much stronger. They had more in tower information, but 531 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: they were able to put Quinton tell Us in the 532 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: same places that Jessica was UM, at which point he 533 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: called the other members of the prosecution team and said, guys, 534 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: you've got to come see this. Um. That is really 535 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: the you know, the thing that clinched the whole thing. 536 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: But when you look at the preponderance preponderance of that 537 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: cell phone data on top of the other evidence they 538 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: have as a whole, it is is very convincing. Well, 539 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: let me understand something to rest April with Clarie and Lizer. 540 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: To do that, you triangulate, in other words, take information 541 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: from multiple cell phone towers if you've got them, and 542 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: you figure out where the that particular cell phone is. 543 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: But the time, the timing, what time was his cell 544 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: phone at the same spot as hers? Well, it started 545 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: when they went to Taco Bell. So all the way 546 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: to Batesville, their phones are together. Um, they're together in Batesville, 547 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: and they're together coming back. Then they're together in a 548 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: field next to tell Us his home for about thirty 549 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: minutes so which they're both silent, and then Jessica's never 550 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: gets used again. Tell Us as doesn't wake up until 551 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: after Um the time that authorities believed Jessica was rendered unconscious. Um, 552 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: they say about I think it was about seven. You're 553 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: setting that his cell phone is basically on top of 554 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: hers in the triangulation up until they are in the 555 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: field where she's burned, well, until they were in the 556 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: field where they prosecutors are saying that's where they ended up, 557 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: as they said, attempting sex. There wasn't a sex attempt, 558 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: and I believe they're using that to say that Jessica 559 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: didn't want it, and potentially they believe Quentin did. Um. 560 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: They went from that field, their cell phones went to 561 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: or Jessica's cellphone went to the area where she was burned. Um, 562 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: tell Us has did too, But Jessica's Jessica's Um, what's 563 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: the word that her triangulation showed up there drastically. Um. 564 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: So that's where they were able to, you know, figure 565 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: out that's when she was moved. So jos caught Morgan 566 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: with me death investigator. That leads me to think of 567 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: this scenario that in that fields where he raped or 568 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: attempted to rape her, and they were there for about 569 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: thirty minutes, and then her cell phone and his cell phone, 570 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: from what I'm understanding from terress, April went to the 571 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: field where she was burned. Yeah, and it's compelling evidence. 572 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: It's very compelling Joe Scott, that he rapes her, moves 573 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: her what he thinks is a dead body to this field, 574 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: and then we see his him and that we see 575 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: the sister's car, which he is in I believe, going 576 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: to his house where he keeps a can of gas 577 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: in the shed. By his own admission, About two minutes 578 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: after it pulls in, it pulls back out. I guess 579 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: that's neighbor surveillance video. And then the next thing you know, 580 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: she's up in flames. I mean, what, what do you 581 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: need a video of him pouring gas on the car 582 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: for peats Saint Joe Scott. No, but I think that 583 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people would would want to see that, 584 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: would want to see that relative to uh, you know, 585 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: sharing this up in their mind, and they have to 586 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: be able to dig through this technical data and it's layer. 587 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: You know, this case is contained everything, uh from high 588 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: end science where we're talking about electronic data, all the 589 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: way out to DNA evidence. And I think that they've 590 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: done an adequate job here portraying and putting down the 591 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: story linking him and her piece by piece, step by 592 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: step from me. In this particular case, the electronic cell 593 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: phone data is much more compelling, even say, for instance, 594 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: than the DNA evidence in this case. Take a listen 595 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: to this. That brings us back to one of the 596 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: first people that was talked to four days after her death, 597 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: and one of the last people she was in contact with. Yes, 598 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: and who was that? It was Quentin Tells. And you 599 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: earlier you had looked at some tolls from Quentin tellsas phone. 600 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: How you looked at a dog that was retreated from 601 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: Clinton tellsas Phone. I did, we did, originally analyzed, Quentin 602 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: tell us, did you have that information? I didn't, And 603 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: so you know, again we had taken that piece of puzzle, 604 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,479 Speaker 1: moved it toward the edge of the table and moved 605 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: on to other things. But between the dates he was 606 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: interviewed and that October meeting, at some point in there, 607 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: we had received that location data back. And so you 608 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: when you started going through back through all the original contact, Yes, 609 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: did you have another piece of informational Quentin tell Us, 610 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: I did? I had his location dad on his phone, 611 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: And did you analyze the location dial quentn't tell us 612 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: his phone? And this this leads you to contact investigators. 613 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: It did you know? I don't know if you heard 614 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: it the trial. We always refer this back to the 615 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: moment uh in the case, but it did. And when 616 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: I saw what I saw on his location data, it 617 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: led me to and I think I was doing that 618 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: at a very late at night. I contacted the five 619 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: members of the team and told you all that I 620 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: needed immediately in my office the next morning. That brings 621 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: us back to one of the first people that was 622 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: talked to four days after her death and one of 623 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: the last people she was in contact with. Yes, and 624 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: who was that? It was? Quentin Tellus and you earlier 625 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: you had looked at some tolls from Quentin tells Us phone. 626 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: Have you looked at a dog that was retrieved from 627 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: Quentin tells Us phone? I did. We originally analyzed, Quentin 628 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: tell Us, did you have that information? I didn't, And 629 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: so you know again we had taken that piece of puzzle, 630 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: moved it toward the edge of the table and moved 631 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: on to other things. But but between the dates he 632 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: was interviewed and that October meeting, at some point in there, 633 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: we had received that location data back. And so you 634 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: when you started going through back through all the original contact, Yes, 635 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: did you have another piece of informational Quentin tell Us? 636 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: I did. I had his location dad on his phone 637 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: and did you analyze the location dal quintint tell Us phone? Did? 638 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: And this this leads you to contact investigators it did 639 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: you know? I don't know if you heard the trial. 640 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: We always refer this back to the moment uh in 641 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: the case. Um, but it did. And when I saw 642 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,320 Speaker 1: what I saw on his location data, it led me 643 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: to and I think I was doing that at a 644 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: very late at night. I contacted the five members of 645 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: the team and told you all that I needed immediately 646 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: in my office the next morning, you are hearing intelligence 647 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: analyst Paul Rowlett, who worked full time on this case 648 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: for a year, As he testified in court, I want 649 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: to go to Dr Jane Gorniac, renowned medical examiner out 650 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: of Fulton County. Dr Gorniac listen, I still sit there 651 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: in helen her hand as all I could do. So 652 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: the sweetheart is gonna be okay. And she she kept 653 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: telling me, you know I'm gonna die, and I said 654 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: this another or not, You're gonna it's gonna be okay. 655 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 1: Helps coming, Helps coming, and and Daniel got there and 656 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: he knelt down with me on the other side over. 657 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: I was on one side, he was on the other side, 658 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: and uh previous. So Daniel arrive and I had asked 659 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: her name, and I've gotten Jessica Tambers. Could you clearly 660 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: understand what she was saying? Not clearly. I could just 661 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: understand Jessica. I could. I could make Jessica. That's kind 662 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: of you know, the syllables and everything. You can make 663 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: Jessica out. Did you, in fact hear her response to 664 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: Daniel in regards to who did this? I did not 665 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: personally hear her say. Did Daniel advise you what he 666 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: thought he had heard? Hey? Dad, he said she said 667 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: there that would have come from Daniel Cole. Came from 668 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: Daniel Cole. When she told me her name was Jessica 669 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: Tambers and said what happened? And she said, somebody had 670 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: set me on fire. You have to have the breadth 671 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: of pressure first, so if the lungs are damaged, they're 672 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: not going to be elastic enough to take in the 673 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: amount of the air to allow that to push on 674 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: through the vocal folds. And then the pharyngeal area you 675 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: said a minute ago, exactly what is that? The orangel 676 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: area is what we call our voice box. It's where 677 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: our vocal folds are, our larynx. And if those are 678 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: damaged by inhalation of smoke or fire, would that affect 679 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: the ability to make an articulate sound. Yes, it would. 680 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: The vocal folds are very thin and they're very pliable, 681 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: and if there's anything that attaches to those cords, it's 682 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: going to keep them from moving the way they should. 683 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,919 Speaker 1: I use my hands like this, um, But I tell 684 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: students all the time, you um, the cords are to 685 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: look like this. But if there's anything impinging, like a 686 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: growth or something hanging on the cord, they're not going 687 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: to close and open the way they're supposed to sound. 688 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: It does. That was speech pathologist Dr Carol Higgen, who 689 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: testified in court. She says there was no way Jessica 690 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: could possibly have produced an articulate sound. Dr Jane Gorniac 691 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner out of Fulton County. Dr Gorniac. When 692 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: this case first happened, it was called death by lighter 693 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: fluid because it was first believed that someone had poured 694 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: lighter fluid or some accelerant, forced it down her mouth 695 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: and throat and set it on fire, because the inside 696 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: of her mouth and throat and air pass just looked 697 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: completely black and charred. Is it any surprise to you? 698 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: When they asked her, who did this to you? She said, 699 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: and I'm quoting from the courtroom at with and that 700 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: was interpreted to be eric. I believe she's trying to 701 00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: say tell us, But are you surprised she cannot enunciate? 702 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: Dr Gornia And why could she not enunciate well? Without 703 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: actually seeing her airway for myself? But because the way 704 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: you're describing it was like it sounds like there was 705 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: sood and inflammation from secondary to the heat and the 706 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: flames of the fire. Does it surprise me? My medical 707 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: sense says yes, because you have all that inflammation and 708 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: mean to be very difficult to make any any sound. 709 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: But I have witnessed people's lived to their will to live, um, 710 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: not only when I was an intern in the in 711 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: the hospital years ago, but also in a couple of 712 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: cases I've had so people fight to the end, to 713 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: their death literally to tell their story. Um. And like 714 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: you said, were did she what did she say? We 715 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: will really never know, but she was trying to tell 716 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: her story, um and and bring justice before her herself. 717 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 1: So does it surprise me on one end, absolutely, But 718 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: the personal side of me really believes in will to 719 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: live and people find that strength to tell their story. Nancy, 720 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: this is Ashley. Can I add something to that? Yeah, 721 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: you have to add the law provides for that. There's 722 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: the exception to hear say, which is the dawn declaration 723 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: excited utterance. And the whole reason they have that exception 724 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: is because people do exactly what was just described. They 725 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,439 Speaker 1: they find every ounce of there being to actually say 726 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: what happened to them before they die. You know what, 727 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: You're right, Ashley, Listen, from what I viewed, in my 728 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: expert opinion, the severity of what I saw would have 729 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: prohibited this person from producing any kind of an articulate 730 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: sound at that from very soon after the trauma, like 731 00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: within within minutes after the trauma. Within men, it's after 732 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:07,399 Speaker 1: the trauma, okay, So that would would be based upon 733 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: what the percentage, the severity of the burns, and the 734 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: pictures I saw of the vocal folds and UM, the 735 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 1: the Dr. Hickerson's report of what was apparent when she 736 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 1: did arrive at the med um as well as relating 737 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: back to um what went on during the transportation to 738 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: the med h In Again, I've been at this a 739 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: long time. There's no way this person produced an articulate 740 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:48,640 Speaker 1: sound from very soon after this inflammation started or this 741 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: burm started. Can you tell this jury as you sit 742 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: here today, when that inflammation that you just referred to 743 00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: would have started, this person would not have sustained severe 744 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: burns for more than a couple of minutes without losing 745 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: their ability to communicate. Prosecutors said Jessica Chambers was too 746 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: badly burned to say much of anything. But in this 747 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,479 Speaker 1: retrial surprise from prosecution witnesses who testified, Jessica Chambers said 748 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 1: a lot more than Eric did it. And so the 749 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: sweetheart is gonna be okay. And she she kept telling me, 750 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to former Courtland fire chief Cole 751 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: Haley said, Chambers appeared alert, she's breathing, and she asked 752 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: me for water. Prosecutors tried to bring out that the 753 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,839 Speaker 1: nineteen year old could not speak well. I could tell 754 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: it was hard for it at all. First responders testified 755 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: Jessica was hard to understand, but they knew she said 756 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: her name Jessica Chambers, and they knew she said Eric 757 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: set her on fire. Quentin tell Us is on trial 758 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: for the murder of Jessica Chambers, and that name Eric 759 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: is a hurdle esecutors will have to get over. And 760 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: that was w MC Action News reporter Janice Approach to 761 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: to Ress April with a clarion ledger. That's the big problem. 762 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: That's the O. J. Simpson glove moment in the courtroom. 763 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 1: Will the defense be able to make the jury believe 764 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: somebody named Eric did the deed just like because the 765 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,080 Speaker 1: glove didn't fit, none of the other evidence counted. Or 766 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: will the jury understand she could she couldn't speak. What's 767 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: your gauge of it, to Ress. My gauge is that 768 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: last year the prosecution did not do a clear job 769 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: of showing that she didn't clearly say eric. Um. They 770 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,919 Speaker 1: put the first responders on the stand and they all said, 771 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: she said eric and was kind of like okay. This year, 772 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: they said, but what did it sound like? How close 773 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: did you have to get for her to hear this? 774 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: Can you tell us the you know, the way she 775 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: said it? And what you had was a bunch of 776 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: people instead of saying she said Eric, I heard it, 777 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: there's saying well, it kind of sounded like l A 778 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: or it kind of sounded like eric. And so by 779 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: the end of it you had then you had two 780 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: experts who said she would not be able to clearly enunciate, 781 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,799 Speaker 1: and then you had um, one of the experts saying 782 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: those could even have been pain sounds. She may not 783 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 1: have been trying to say anything. So I think this 784 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: year it's very much clearer that we're dealing with a 785 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: situation where she was trying to speak, but there was 786 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: no clear word that she was saying to me. I mean, 787 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: the timeline it says it all the cell phone data 788 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: couldn't have been anyone else but the last person that 789 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: was with Jessica. There's no way that anyone else could 790 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,120 Speaker 1: have snug in them this and gotten away and not 791 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: leave a trace. Nancy. Yeah, I'm I'm glad to see 792 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:52,240 Speaker 1: that the prosecution has has righted the ship here relative 793 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 1: to and I think a lot of this goes to 794 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: you think about the expert expert testimony. Uh, they actually 795 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,320 Speaker 1: brought in a speech pathologist in this in this case, 796 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: and uh, this individual was able to better describe because 797 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: this is this is a critical turning point in this case. 798 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: Everybody wants to, you know, talk about what had been 799 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 1: said and and you there's a deeper explanation here. You 800 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 1: combine this with the physical findings, and and it's it 801 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: was impactful. I think from from my perspective, I think 802 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: it'll be impactful for for the jury as well. Take 803 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: a listen to this. You told the jury that this 804 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: was like a puzzle, yes, sir. And it took you 805 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: basically four years to put this puzzle together, yes, sir. 806 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: Intelligence analyst James Paul Rowlett says his process for the 807 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 1: investigation is similar to making a thousand piece puzzle. Sometimes 808 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: you must put pieces off to the side and then 809 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 1: bring them back in. He says that's exactly what he 810 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: did with Quentin tell Us. He would either give us 811 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: a different time frame or say it didn't happen until 812 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: we presented him with data that conflicted what he was saying, 813 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: and then he would change his story. Role It presented 814 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: a power point presentation with cell phone data and surveillance 815 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,919 Speaker 1: video showing almost every move Chambers and tell Us made. 816 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: This is the last time we will ever suggested. When 817 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: all this evidence was shown to tell Us, he started 818 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: remembering the details of that fatal night. Until then, investigators 819 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: say they believe he was withholding information. Why did you 820 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,359 Speaker 1: go to Nashville to a game? All right? What game? 821 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,759 Speaker 1: Johns and Tennessee? Alright? Be the New York Johnson and 822 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,520 Speaker 1: Tennessee Titans. Do you have or do you have a 823 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: friend that plays for the New York gihnts John? And 824 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: it's John Jerry from Batesville or this area? And how 825 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 1: long have you known John at the New him a 826 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: long time? And did John uh have anything for you? 827 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,160 Speaker 1: Or as far as where you're staying, who paid for 828 00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: that he did? And who provided you with tickets to 829 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 1: the game? And did you in fact go to Nashville? Okay? 830 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: And when was the game? That's big Mike Sanford tell us, 831 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 1: his purported alibi witness He's testified in retrial that he 832 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,239 Speaker 1: drove to Nashville to see his friend play for the 833 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,400 Speaker 1: New York Giants and was not with tell Us. Well, 834 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,879 Speaker 1: that was a big, fat lie on tell US's part. 835 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,360 Speaker 1: To Ashley Wilcott, you know, ash I know that you 836 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: have founded child crib watch dot com, your judge, your lawyer, 837 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: but I want to talk to you as a mom. 838 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 1: You know, um, when somebody on the playground says something 839 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: mean or does something mean to John David, or Lucy 840 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: gets a little feelings hurt when somebody doesn't play with her. 841 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,919 Speaker 1: I think about it all night long. I know that's 842 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: sounds crazy, but I think about you know. I don't 843 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,879 Speaker 1: want them to get their feelings hurt. I don't want 844 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:05,960 Speaker 1: them to live through this. I don't want them to 845 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: live through that. I just don't know how the parents 846 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:16,839 Speaker 1: can stand knowing what Jessica went through, that awful death 847 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: she had. It's so young, I mean, a teen girl, 848 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,360 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, Ashley. So what they say, Nancy is 849 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 1: that the loss of a child is absolutely the worst 850 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: loss you can ever suffer. So compound that with the 851 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,800 Speaker 1: loss of a child by such gruesome, horrible means that 852 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,680 Speaker 1: are so visual in your mind. You're never going to forget. 853 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: These parents will never recover, never get over this. Will 854 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 1: there be closure if there's a conviction in some sense, absolutely, 855 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,120 Speaker 1: they will never forget it. I've always said, put me 856 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,600 Speaker 1: in a straight jacket, God forbid something happen to one 857 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: of my children. Put me in a straight jacket. I 858 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,600 Speaker 1: cannot They must be the strongest people in the world 859 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,879 Speaker 1: to survive this. Take a listen to Jessica's dad, Ben Chain, 860 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,160 Speaker 1: was telling me a chilling what happened at the hospital. 861 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,000 Speaker 1: He couldn't see her or speak to her before she 862 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: went to heaven. When you finally you run in the hospital, 863 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,400 Speaker 1: you're running up and down the halls, you're trying to 864 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,719 Speaker 1: find her. You get there before the airlift brings her there, 865 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 1: and you finally see her. What did you see? Well, 866 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't get to see her right then. 867 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 1: You know that. It was two hours before we uh 868 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: got to go back there, you know, And the doctor 869 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: come out and hey, tell me, said Mr Tamer, she 870 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: don't want to see your daughter right to Yes, I do, 871 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,759 Speaker 1: He said, No, you don't recognizeable. You know, you know 872 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:55,720 Speaker 1: you don't recognize Uh, you know you've never seen somebody 873 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: it burnt that bad. It live as long as you 874 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 1: and she had a strong heart, I mean she had. 875 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 1: And no names or nothing, uh where they can eve 876 00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:13,360 Speaker 1: for the I VS in or nothing. You know, Mr Chambers. 877 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,960 Speaker 1: Did you get to speak to her before she went 878 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:22,800 Speaker 1: to heaven? No? No, oh, Ma did not. Did you 879 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,440 Speaker 1: get to see her? I know, no, she is if 880 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: we got ready to go into the room or whatever. 881 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: My sister and her mother, Lisa walked in the rooms 882 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,960 Speaker 1: and um to see they was in there about thirty 883 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: seconds and she passed away. I can tell you this, 884 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,080 Speaker 1: Mr Chambers. I believe with all of my heart that 885 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,800 Speaker 1: she knew that you were there right now that jury 886 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,200 Speaker 1: deliberating the fate of Quentin tell Us as Jessica Chambers 887 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,880 Speaker 1: family watches in the wings. Go to crime online dot 888 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: com for the very latest We are in a verdict. 889 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,799 Speaker 1: Watch Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.