1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. They are both 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: murdered by the Benders. But why kill an eighteen month old? 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Did that surprise you that they did that? 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: I think for a lot of people, it's really what 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: just tips them over into truly monstrous territory. Their crimes 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: are obviously extremely awful. Anyway, Mary is too young to 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: be able to offer any kind of testimony or anything 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, so there really is no reason to 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: kill her. 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: true crime podcast Tenfold More Wicked, as well as the 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: co host of the new show Buried Bones, both on 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: Exactly Right. I've traveled around the world interviewing people for 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: the show. I've interviewed some people in person and some 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: from my home studio over zoom, and they are all 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: excellent writers. They've had so many great true crime stories, 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: and now we want to tell you those stories with 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: details that have never been published. Tenfold More Wicked presents 21 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: Wicked Words is about the choices that writers make good 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and bad. It's a deep dive into the stories behind 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 1: the stories. Author Susan Jonasis has tackled a really big 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: true crime case, the story of the Bloody Benders in Kansas. 25 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: They were a family of serial killers who murdered at 26 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: least eleven people in the late eighteen hundreds. I thought 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: I knew the story of the Benders, but I really 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,279 Speaker 1: didn't until I read her book called Hell's half Acre. 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: The story of the Bloody Benders is an epic story. 30 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Why are we so interested in them? 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think the crime at the time it happened 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: was such unusual and just brutal, appalling series of crimes. 33 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: Nobody had ever seen anything like that in the States 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: at that time. Obviously, you've got this beautiful young woman 35 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: at the center, Kate Bender, and that really the newspaper's 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: just latched onto that as the kind of lynchpin of 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: the story because it was one super unusual obviously to 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: have a. 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 3: Family committing crimes, and then two. 40 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: You've got this kind of proto fatale figure who's very 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: easy to mythologize. And I think the nature of the 42 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: crimes as well, this idea that within a community, this 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: family are masquerading as kind of upstanding if stand off 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: is citizens, and then over a three year period they 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: kill eleven people at least within that area, both from 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: that community and passing through, and then obviously they flee. 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: It's a mystery, there's no wonder. I think that it's 48 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: pervaded true crime like it has. 49 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: And I can pick out some other Ted Bundy's, I 50 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: can pick out some other Edmund Kemper's. I just cannot 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: place another Bender family. I just can't think of another equivalent. 52 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: It's interesting when you look at the family themselves, because 53 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: we still don't have that much information about the members, 54 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: because they essentially appeared and then disappeared, and they didn't 55 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: really leave any kind of written records. We don't really 56 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 2: have their voices. But I think they also. The more 57 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: I looked into them in my research, the more I 58 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: felt that the older couple mind path that's all we 59 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: know them as, and the younger couple, John and Kate, 60 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: that Kate was probably related to the woman, but that 61 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: she and John, while they pretended to be siblings, were 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: more likely common law husband and wife. There's some sources 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: that date from a slightly later period which indicate that 64 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: the way they interacted with each other was a lot 65 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: more what you'd expect kind of from a romantic partnership. 66 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: And you see that at the time in the newspapers, 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: except the newspapers sort of hint that they're incestuous half siblings. Yeah, 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: because that's a bit more kind of scandalous. 69 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: Let's start from the beginning and throughout this, I'll be 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: interested in you dispelling myths, because there are a lot 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: of myths about the family. So what is Kansas like 72 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: where the Benders live post Civil War? 73 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,559 Speaker 2: So, Kansas in the eighteen seventies is a really interesting 74 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: kind of mix of locations. Southeast Kansas, where the Venders 75 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: committed the majority of their crimes, had suffered a lot 76 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: before and during the Civil War. It was a site 77 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: of lots of guerrilla warfare between Union and soon to 78 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: be Confederate forces, and so a lot of the people 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: who lived in that area kind of already had quite 80 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: a violent experience of residing in that space. But around 81 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: the time the Venders moved there, the Osage people have 82 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: been removed from the land by the government, and the 83 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: government has encouraged white settlers to move into the space. 84 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: But at this point in time, it's actually really on 85 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: the up in terms of population numbers. So you have 86 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: kind of these vast prairies where the weather's really bad, 87 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: where the conditions are really dangerous, where horse thieves are 88 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: roaming around, and then you've got like these little clustered settlements, 89 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: so lots of people will set up a homestead and 90 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: then more people will come together and build a town. 91 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: So Independence in Kansas is like a classic frontier town. 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: It's got banks, it's got lawyers offices, it's got groceries, 93 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: it's got dry good stores, and people are constantly coming in, 94 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: people are moving in and out. You've got families, you've 95 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: got businessmen, and a lot of the people in the area, 96 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: the young men and the men in general, are all 97 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: Civil War veterans. So there's this kind of big dream 98 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: of building a new life on the frontier where you 99 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: can sort of put aside all the violence of the 100 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: previous decade and buy into this idea of progress. And 101 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: then obviously you've got kind of a sense of community, 102 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 2: but there's also a level of suspicion between different settlers 103 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: because you've just got so many different groups of people. 104 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: And you know, just in the late eighteen hundreds. There's 105 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: no nationalized identification system in the United States, so you 106 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: could literally change your name and be anyone. So you 107 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: have a right to be suspicious. 108 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So especially in areas which are kind of up 109 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: and coming, where you have like railroad towns where the 110 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: railroad's coming through, you've got a lot of transient workers, 111 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 2: most of them are young men. And then everything that 112 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: comes along with industries like that, So you've got sex workers, 113 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 2: you've got saloons, you've got people looking to capitalize off that. 114 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 2: And at this point in time, Southeast Kansas is kind 115 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: of struggling with that reputation. There's a deeply unpleasant incident 116 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: in a place called La'door, which is just north of 117 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 2: where the vendors set. 118 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 3: Up their cabin, where a group of outlaws. 119 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: Have come up from Indian Territory, which is just below 120 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 2: the border, and they read all sorts of havoc in 121 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: the town and sexually assault a couple of young women, 122 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: and the town just enacts its own justice and hangs 123 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: them all from a tree. And nobody ever does any 124 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: time for that, which you can sort of understand, and 125 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: it's a profoundly traumatic experience for the people in that settlement, 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: so you've got kind of pocketed violence between different families 127 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: as well, people getting into land disputes, and then people 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: just disappearing, having horses stolen, or even just like falling 129 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: into a creek on the. 130 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: Prairie or freezing. 131 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: So it takes a long time for people to feel 132 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: like there's an actual problem in the area in terms 133 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: of people going missing. 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: So let's get the name straight. There's Ma and Pauw 135 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: and the younger man is John Geppart, who is likely 136 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: related to pau and the younger woman is Kate, who 137 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: is likely related to Ma. 138 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: So they turn up first. 139 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: Pa and John turn up in the late winter of 140 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: eighteen seventy and they build the cabin, which will obviously 141 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: kind of then go on to become infamous. And they 142 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: set this up on the side of a trail that 143 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: joins o Sage Mission to Independence, So this is a 144 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: trail that's frequented a lot by all sorts of different 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: people in the region. So Mart and Kate turn up, 146 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: and the older couple kind of throughout the three year 147 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: period they stay essentially out of the community. Neither really 148 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: speak English, they're quite scanned Offish. They'll like fraternize if 149 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: they have to, but they sort of avoid it, whereas 150 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: the younger couple make a big effort to kind of 151 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: ingratiate themselves at the local Sunday school. Kate spends a 152 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: lot of time hawking her spiritual services in different towns 153 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: in the area. She also lectures on things like free love, 154 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: which make her this kind of very exciting prospect for. 155 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 3: The young men in the area. 156 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: And John Gebhart makes a big effort to appear kind 157 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: of overtly religious. You read a lot of accounts of 158 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 2: him reading the Bible outside the cabin, and there's also 159 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: this kind of idea that maybe there's something wrong with him, 160 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: but it's not malicious, and that Kate is essentially caring 161 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 2: for her disadvantage brother. So the younger couple work really 162 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,479 Speaker 2: hard to kind of make themselves figures in the community. 163 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: But Kate specifically was quite controversial because she could be 164 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: very charming, but she also got very pushy and aggressive 165 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: when she was sort of told no, often by female 166 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: members of the community. 167 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: So what do we know about man Pa? 168 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: So the general assumption is that they or one of 169 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: them is from the Rhineland in Germany. They're certainly recent immigrants. 170 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: I think you could say they've still got very strong accents. 171 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: They've obviously not made that much of an effort to 172 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: learn English. They didn't really need to because actually lots 173 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: of people on the frontier, but they call it Dutch, 174 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: which is either kind of German or maybe even a 175 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: Scandinavian language. 176 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: So with Pau, I had read somewhere that people described 177 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: him as making sort of guttural sounds, like not even 178 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: speaking German or in Dutch or anything else. 179 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: I sort of got the impression from the family that 180 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 2: the younger couple had a very mean sense of humor 181 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: and the older couple were just not interested. I think 182 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: par probably he kind of fits that very stereotypical idea 183 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: of like a grumpy old man. And I think given 184 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: the nature of the crimes and these stories about him 185 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: sort of shuffling up to people on the land and 186 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: asking where they're from, and then they're from the area, 187 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: he'll kind of shuffle away and that will be that. 188 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: But if they're not, he'll get very aggressive with them. 189 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: So there is a kind of disjointed narrative when it 190 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: comes to him specifically about whether he was this sort 191 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: of grunting, violent man, or whether he like was actually 192 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 2: quite intelligent but just chose to not display it. 193 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: Okay, And they bring over these two young people. Do 194 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: we have any idea of ages or are we just 195 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: thinking twenties for Kate and John. 196 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 3: So. 197 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 2: Kate she is described in the governor's proclamation as being 198 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: in her early twenties. And Rudolph Brockman, who's a neighbor 199 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: of the vendors who interacts with them quite a lot 200 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: and then testifies in a later trial, he describes her 201 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: as being in her late teens. Even so, she was 202 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 2: definitely quite young when they arrived. And Gebar, I think, 203 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: is described as being sort of twenty eight, So I 204 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 2: would say early in late twenties. 205 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 3: Is how I would characterize them. 206 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: So you've got these four people. They've built a cabin. 207 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: They're right along a trail that, for the eighteen seventies 208 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: is so busy, sounds like the thoroughfare of the eighteen 209 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: seventies in Kansas. What makes them, do you think, decide 210 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: to convert this into what like an inn or a 211 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: bed and breakfast. 212 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: So when they first move into it, there's a great 213 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: kind of thing where when the men are living there, 214 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: there's a sign out the front that says groceries, and 215 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: it's spelt wrong, and then when the women arrive, the 216 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: sign has changed to groceries. And this actually becomes a 217 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 2: really important clue later on as the case unfolds, because 218 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: it's so distinct. But so they obviously had the intention 219 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: of running an inn as soon as they moved there. 220 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: I think the niceness of the cabin as a place 221 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: to stay is sort of up for debate. I also 222 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: don't necessarily think they had that many goods available that 223 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: maybe weren't available in town. They're obviously kind of a 224 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: stopping off point, so essentially you'd stop off to be 225 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: fed and maybe buy some tobacco or oysters in a tin, 226 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: as was very popular at that point in time, and 227 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: you could sleep inside the cabin or outside the carbin, 228 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: depending on the weather. But they obviously because there are 229 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: lots of these kind of trading posts in the area, 230 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: and I think they thought, oh, well, we can homestead. 231 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: We can just make a bit of money on top 232 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: of the home setting by running and nin. 233 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: But it sounds like you alluded a little bit to 234 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: Kate Bender having some interesting freelance opportunities. One of which 235 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: is spiritual advisor. Can we talk a little bit about that. 236 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: Spiritualism in the eighteen seventies was growing, for sure. 237 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so spiritualism was sort of decided. It 238 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: was founded in eighteen forty eight by the Fox Sisters, 239 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: who obviously then have their own kind of controversial legacy 240 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: as the century progresses, and it focuses on this idea 241 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: that we as people who are alive, have the ability 242 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: to speak to dead people, whether that's relatives or famous people, 243 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: or you know, maybe the person who owned the house 244 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: before you, as in the case of the Fox Sisters. 245 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: And it has this kind of interesting overlap with crime 246 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: as well, because people get very into contacting victims of crimes. 247 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: But it also became a mouthpiece for women because the 248 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: characteristics of a medium who you would need to help 249 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: you talk to the dead were considered to be more feminine. 250 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: So if you were impressionable and submissive and all of 251 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, that would make you a good medium. 252 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: That's why women were good at being mediums. But actually 253 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: lots of women used it as a space to promote 254 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: votes for women and more rights for women and freedoms 255 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: for women. And it also kind of trod this line 256 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: of being taboo in some circles, and it was a 257 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: good way to become famous too, And I think that's 258 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: why Kate became so interested in it. It allowed this 259 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: level of manipulation of individuals. I think of her essentially 260 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: as a con artist. 261 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: Well, what's so interesting to me about spiritualism in that 262 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: time period is it's coming right after the Civil War, 263 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: where you have all of these people who are dead, 264 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: and the rise of spiritualism really really grew after the 265 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: Civil War, where you have Abraham Lincoln trying to contact 266 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: his son in the White House, and so mediums were 267 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: able to come in and make a lot of money, 268 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: and most of them were not legitimate, And it sounds 269 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: like Kate Vender had some clients. 270 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. 271 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: I mean she would kind of go into towns and 272 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: she'd get up on town hall stages, and she'd get 273 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: up on stages in music halls, and she'd sort of 274 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 2: do a little bit about who she was and what 275 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: she could do, and then she'd go around the patrons 276 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: and offer more kind of like intimate services. And then 277 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: there's a great account of a man becoming extremely annoyed 278 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: because she starts hassling people for money when. 279 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: She sort of forced her services on them. 280 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: So this would be like palm reading and like a 281 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: circle and all of this kind of stuff, and a 282 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: lot of magnetic healing they did too. 283 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: She got really into that with another woman in the area. 284 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: I think she because of this, and because of their 285 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: intimate nature of things like having a seance, she was 286 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: very popular. People would go out and see her at 287 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: the cabin, and she had this kind of pull over 288 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: men who sort of just liked the idea of going 289 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: and hanging out with her for an evening, but also 290 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: I think women in the area who were vulnerable as well. 291 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: About the free love. I wrote down free love and 292 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: underlined it for some reason. 293 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: So in the nineteenth century it was much more about 294 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: like women's rights to just love who they wanted, to 295 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: marry who they wanted. 296 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: It's not kind of as sexy. 297 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: As we might think of it in the nineteen sixties 298 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, just to clarify, Yeah, but the kind of 299 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: phrase in itself was certainly enough for people to be 300 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: interested in what she had to say. 301 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: And you said, John really tried to present himself as 302 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: a religious man. 303 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: So he attended Sunday School at Harmony Grove very consistently. 304 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: He impressed the township trustee, a man. 305 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: Called Leroy Dick, with his ability to kind of reel 306 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: off these very extensive Bible passages. But this is really 307 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: interesting because he is like this for the first couple 308 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: of years, but then kind of as the Bender's reputation 309 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: in the community begins to unravel, he starts attending church 310 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: much less. He is visibly less interested in the Bible. 311 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: His kind of ouvra of faith starts to disappear. And 312 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: I always thought it was interesting that he because Kate 313 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 2: attended Sunday School a lot as well. 314 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 3: So I think the community, because they were. 315 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: For the most part, nice, charismatic young people, the community 316 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: kind of tolerated their weirder behavior. But as they start 317 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: to become a bit more aggressive, that tolerance just starts 318 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: to drop off. 319 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: When do things start going badly for people who encounter 320 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: to benders. 321 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: So the first kind of known disappearance which has like 322 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: a specific name attached to it, is a man called 323 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: James Ferrick who works for the railroad, and he's over 324 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: in Baxter Springs, and this is around eighteen summer eighteen 325 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: seventy one, and his wife goes over to New York 326 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: with a little baby for Christmas. He says, I'll see 327 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: you after Christmas. He disappears and is never seen again 328 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: until by his neighbors, and not seen by his wife 329 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: for a very long time. And she's constantly writing to 330 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: the neighbors to points along the railroad line, saying, have 331 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: you seen my husban? He was here, he's not written 332 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 2: to me, and people essentially tell her, well, he's probably 333 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 2: left you, or he's died, or he's just disappeared and 334 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: it doesn't really. 335 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: Matter, just fight another husband, and she doesn't have. 336 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: The resources to do a proper search. And that's essentially 337 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 2: what you see as more bodies start to turn up 338 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: on the prairie, some of them are identified, some of 339 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: them are not. 340 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: And then there's an escalation in the. 341 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 2: Winter of eighteen seventy two, but there's still nobody kind 342 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: of with the influence to really start investigating these disappearances 343 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: until the following spring. 344 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: Is there a life event that changed for them that 345 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: made them do this? 346 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 2: Do you think it's my personal opinion that you're looking 347 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 2: at a family of career criminals like that's essentially what 348 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: the vendors were, and that before they arrived in Kansas, 349 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: they were committing crimes in some capacity. At the time, 350 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: there was a big belief that they were working as 351 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: part of a wider group of horse thieves, which was 352 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 2: something I was actually able to confirm and to name 353 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 2: some of those people they were working with really exciting. 354 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: But I think potentially they move to this area ostensibly. 355 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 3: To rob people, to steal horses, steal livestock. 356 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: Kate can sort of do her connact that she's doing, 357 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: but because of the location, they realized they were able 358 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: to murder people who were coming through and just to 359 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: completely avoid suspicion. Initially, they do target young single men 360 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 2: who a lot of them have really nice horses. Is 361 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 2: a very specific thing you find out later even if 362 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: they're not carrying cash, they're on a nice horse. 363 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: So they target people who are not local. 364 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: So when they disappear, it's very difficult to think that 365 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 2: the disappearance is malicious. And even if it is malicious, 366 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: no one's thinking, oh, the family who run that cabin, 367 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 2: they must be murdering everyone. They're thinking, oh, they got 368 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: got by a band of Indian raiders or mugged in Texas. 369 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that the older couple Monpop participated in 370 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: these murders? Did they take an active rule? 371 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's my belief that probably the men did 372 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: most of the murdering. I think Kate certainly didn't mind 373 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: the benefits she got in terms of like material reward, 374 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 2: and she certainly was not bothered enough to ever really 375 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: not involve herself. And I think that for a lot 376 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 2: of people was the real sticking point of whether or 377 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 2: not she was a victim or a perpetrated to herself. 378 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: But I think the geb heart was probably the driving 379 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: force behind the violence. I think that part was certainly 380 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: involved in it as well. 381 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 3: And I think the women were there. 382 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: Kate was there to essentially act as like a draw 383 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: So she would go out the front of the cabin 384 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: and sort of hang out and wash her hair and you. 385 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 3: Know, do bits and pieces. 386 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: She's the bait. 387 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And men would see her and be like, oh, 388 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to stop in there for dinner. And then 389 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: they'd talk to them, so they'd be like, where are 390 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 2: you going, what are you carrying? Do you have any 391 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 2: relatives in the area, that sort of thing, And then 392 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: if you sadly answered incorrectly to those you were probably 393 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: going to be dispatched. And I think, as is often 394 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: the case you see with cereal Kit, the first murder 395 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: is maybe not intentional, and then they feel like, actually, 396 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: we can get away with this, and it's easier. 397 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: It's much easier to just. 398 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 2: In that time to just kill the person who's horse 399 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: you've taken, because then you don't have to worry that 400 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 2: they're gonna go and get a posse to hunt you down. 401 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: What were the ways that they dispatched people. I'm thinking 402 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: about the false floor. 403 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: So the person would come in and then usually Kate 404 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: would kind of take the lead in terms of interacting 405 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: with them. They would ascertain what the person wanted, whether 406 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 2: they were. 407 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: Willing to stay the night. 408 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: So their cabin was divided by a wagon curtain into 409 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: kind of like the dining area and the grocery store, 410 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 2: and then the area where the family slept, and also 411 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: where you would end up if you were particularly unlucky, 412 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 2: and essentially see while the person was eating or drinking 413 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: and Kate was interacting with them, they'd be struck on 414 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: the head from behind the curtain by par or by John, 415 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: and that would stun the person and all the bodies 416 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: have this very specific set of wounds. They have the 417 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: back of their head carved in by a large hammer, 418 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: and then their temples are carved in by a smaller hammer, 419 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 2: and then they have. 420 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: Their throat slick as well. 421 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: So it's a very violent but very consistent method of killing. 422 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: And then to kind of get the body out of 423 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 2: the space as fast as possible, they would pull up 424 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 2: this trapdoor. They'd shunt the body down into the cellar, 425 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: and they'd just leave the person down there to kind 426 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: of bleed out if they were still alive. 427 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: And also because it. 428 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 2: Would get cold and they couldn't dig into the ground, 429 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: so that sometimes people would be under the cabin for 430 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: a long time and then they'd transfer them to the orchard. 431 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: And the smell. People didn't notice the smell coming up. 432 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: I guess some parts of winter it's cold enough where 433 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: they're sort of frozen. 434 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: So there was a level of kind of like general 435 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: farmyard smell, I think. But they talk about when they're 436 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: excavating the site later, it's like there's dead pigs, there's 437 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: dead cows, there's all sorts of dead things everywhere all 438 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 2: the time, and we don't have that anymore. Unless you've 439 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: grown up in a rural area on a farm, you 440 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: probably haven't smelled what a dead thing smells like, Whereas 441 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 2: back then people would identify the sense of death, but 442 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 2: they wouldn't necessarily be suspicious about it. 443 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: So James Ferrick in eighteen seventy one and his wife 444 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: would love to know where he is, but I can't 445 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: even imagine having his spouse go missing and waiting on 446 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: the post to arrive with news. 447 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: Mary Ferrick was writing letters, and she's writing a lot 448 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: of letters, but people essentially just weren't interested. He wasn't 449 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: an important enough figure, and at that point in time, 450 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: she was in New York because she didn't want to 451 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: come back to Kansas to look for him with her 452 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: son when she had nowhere really safe to go to 453 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: do that. 454 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: So they've gotten away with this. 455 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: What happens next, so their behavior is essentially escalates up 456 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: until spring of eighteen seventy three. There's a man called 457 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 2: William Jones who's found in a creek by two little boys, 458 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: and he has this very specific set of wounds, which 459 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: is what later allows them to link him to the Benders. 460 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: There's also a man who's never identified who's found in 461 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: a campsite who has a similar set of wounds. 462 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 3: There's a young man. 463 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 2: Whose father identifies him, but he has been robbed on 464 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: the open prairie and then torn apart by ferrell hawks 465 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: and is identified from his clothing. When I started my research, 466 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: these very specific descriptions about the number of men on 467 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: the prairie who were found who were attributed to the benders, 468 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: and actually a neighbor of theirs says a man called 469 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 2: Maury Sparks says that he felt like they were just 470 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: attacking people on the prairie as well. They wouldn't necessarily 471 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: wait for them to come to the cabin. The men 472 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: would just go out. And I think that is a 473 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 2: correct assumption to make given the nature of the people 474 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: they're discovered to be associating with, who are kind of 475 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 2: a roving band of psychopaths. 476 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: So where are they spending the money on? You mentioned 477 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: that Kate was enjoying the material goods that came off 478 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: of these robberies. Is that right? 479 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: She was very obsessed with her appearance. 480 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: Lots of accounts written later about her describe her as being. 481 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: Dressed very well. 482 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 2: She wore lots of feathers in her hair, later, when 483 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: she's on the run, she complains constantly that she's having 484 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: to wear men's clothes and that she can't have anything 485 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: nice despite being worth a lot of money in terms 486 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: of a reward. But that is one of the big 487 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: questions is were the benders sitting on a collection of 488 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 2: money that they were then eventually just going to run 489 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: off with Anyway, what was going on there was Kate 490 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 2: doing the bulk of the spending and geb part just 491 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: enjoyed being a criminal. 492 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 3: There's lots of questions there. 493 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: So the benders are murdering people, and the final three 494 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: deaths are very very crucial tell me about the father 495 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: and his eighteen month old daughter. 496 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: The key disappearance is of his neighbor, George Longka and 497 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: his little girl, mary Anne Lonka. And George is a widower. 498 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: He is also a Civil War veteran, and he had 499 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: come out with his wife and they'd moved kind. 500 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: Of next to William York and William's family. 501 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 2: And then after she dies, he tries to kind of 502 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: make a living in that area as a blacksmith. He's 503 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: very popular, but ultimately he decides it's best if mary 504 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: Ane's taken back to her grandparents in Iowa. 505 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 3: So they set out in the winter of eighteen seventy two, 506 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: and this. 507 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: Next development is horrific and heartbreaking. George and his eighteen 508 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: month old daughter are both killed by the benders. Why 509 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: would you kill an eighteen month old? Did that surprise 510 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: you that they did that? 511 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 2: I think for a lot of people, it's really what 512 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: just tips them over into truly monstrous territory. Their crimes 513 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: are obviously extremely awful anyway, but like you said, I 514 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: think they could have even taken in huh and said, oh, 515 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 2: it's a relative. You know, there was no if you 516 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 2: in their mind feel like they need to kill George 517 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 2: Lonka because they want access to the wagon and horses. 518 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 2: Mary is too young to be able to offer any 519 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: kind of testimony or anything like that, so there really 520 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 2: is no reason to kill her beyond the fact that 521 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: they were perhaps worried that somebody would come by the 522 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 2: cabin and start asking questions and hear the crying. But 523 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: it is really awful, and you know, that's also what 524 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: really gets to the community, because they find her and 525 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: she's still got her little mittens on. When she's found 526 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: in the grave with her father, and there's a lot 527 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: of confusion. Initially she's reported as sort of eight or 528 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: twelve and all of that kind of stuff, But she 529 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: was eighteen months old because it obviously hadn't been that 530 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 2: long since her mother had died in childbirth. 531 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 3: And I think George Longka's story is just so sad. 532 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: He's this deeply traumatized man who moves to start a 533 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 2: new life with his very young family, and it just 534 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: ends in an unimaginably awful way. 535 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: And then Georgia's relatives send a note to their neighbor, 536 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: William Yorke. 537 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 2: So in the spring of eighteen seventy three, William York 538 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: gets a letter from Lonka's father in law saying where 539 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 2: are they? 540 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 3: They didn't arrive. 541 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 2: And William York is a Civil War veteran as well 542 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: and a local physician, and kind of most importantly in 543 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: terms of exposing the Benders, he's the brother of a 544 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: very kind of controversial at that point in time state 545 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: senator called Alexander York, who is embroiled in a big 546 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: political scandal at the beginning of eighteen seventy three and 547 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 2: is sort of ultimately beloved and despised in the community. 548 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 3: But William is obviously. 549 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 2: Part of this very powerful, very kind of famous local family. 550 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: So William York gets a letter from his neighbor's father, 551 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: is that right, Yeah, and says, where is my son 552 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: and my granddaughter? And he just saddles up and goes 553 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 1: out because he respects George Lonker that much. 554 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think William. 555 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 2: The main characterization we have with William actually comes from 556 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: memoirs written by his wife Maryor. She in eighteen seventy 557 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 2: five was really sick of the attention that the Bender 558 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 2: family specifically were getting and not the victims, so she 559 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 2: wrote this account of her experience of it. And William 560 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 2: was a man who went through a very traumatic experience 561 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: in the Civil War and kind of had this real 562 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: He was a very empathetic man. 563 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 3: He was a very good, but troubled person. 564 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: There had been kind of word of disappearances in the area, 565 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 2: kind of just town gossip, and I think they would 566 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 2: have all been aware of it. But he did really 567 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: care about George and Mary Anne. He wanted to know 568 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: exactly what was going on, He wanted to know where 569 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 2: they were. 570 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: He felt like he. 571 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: Could do it, and honestly, I think initially he probably 572 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: didn't realize just how dangerous the situation was, and their 573 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 2: father doesn't want him to go and look for them, 574 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: but he's a really, really really nice horse to do 575 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 2: the search on and off he goes, and it is 576 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 2: his disappearance in his wife, who is very kind of 577 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: fastidious about her timekeeping, and when he doesn't get back, 578 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 2: is like, whereas my husband, he wouldn't just disappear, And. 579 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: So goes William Yorke. Also he goes looking for his 580 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: neighbor and he's obviously killed in the same way with 581 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: the Benders. 582 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: It's my belief that he because there actually lots of 583 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 2: people saw him. 584 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: He was definitely doing kind of like detective work. 585 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: He was going along the route that they would have 586 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: taken and definitely obviously stopped at the Bender cabin, and 587 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: I think he probably they maybe would have killed it. 588 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: Well. 589 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: I don't think they necessarily would have killed him, because 590 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: he was such a prominent local figure in the community, 591 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: but I imagine that he started asking very pointed questions 592 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: and they panicked because their crimes had really escalated over 593 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: this kind of winter period from about October eighteen seventy 594 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: two to spring of eighteen seventy three, like they were 595 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: killing a lot more people, whereas before they'd been kind 596 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: of four or five month gap between disappearances, so I 597 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: think they were maybe already preparing to leave and this 598 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: just sort of tipped them over the air. 599 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: So William Yorke goes missing his wife I'm sure, begins 600 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: to panic. When he doesn't come home when he's supposed to. 601 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: She goes to her brother in law, I'm assuming Alexander 602 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: Yorke and says, your brother's gone. 603 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: So there's a real kind of like I call it, 604 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: like a cinematic kind of thing that happens here where 605 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: he doesn't come home. 606 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 3: She gets very wound up. She rides to the local 607 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 3: post office for letters. 608 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 2: She doesn't find any. She then goes to Alexander. Well 609 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 2: it's mana says, house the York Patriarch. She goes to 610 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: that house, there's nobody there. She's running around in the 611 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 2: house and then her mother in law comes in and 612 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: it turns out they already know that he's disappeared. So 613 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: he was traveling to Fort Scott to see his father. 614 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: He said he call on Alexander on the way home, 615 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 2: and he doesn't. And Mary doesn't know. 616 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 3: All of this. 617 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: She's just like my husband is late, but the family 618 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 2: all separately become aware that something's gone wrong, and then 619 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 2: they all converge on. 620 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 3: This house around the same time, and. 621 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: Mary talks about how she looked at her mother in law, 622 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: and her mother in law looked at her, and she 623 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: just felt like she was going to pass out because 624 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 2: she immediately knew that she was right. Something was wrong. 625 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: Where do you even start in the nineteenth century to 626 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: look for someone, I guess you follow the trail he 627 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: would have followed. 628 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, So they organized because of their influence they have 629 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: in the local area. Alexander's also a lawyer, and their 630 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 2: father runs a big nursery, like a plant nursery. So 631 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: they organize a big group of volunteers to essentially start 632 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: homing the landscape. And they also get a lot of 633 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 2: volunteers from because Fort Scott is a bit further over 634 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: from some of the other spaces and that's where that 635 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: family are based. But they get a lot of volunteers 636 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: from the more direct local area who either know about 637 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 2: the disappearances, have disappeared family members themselves. It sort of 638 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: varies between like sixty to one hundred and fifty people 639 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: at any given time, and they do they stop at 640 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: different settlements, they ask questions. There's a boy who reports 641 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: seeing William on the horse and he remembers him because 642 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: the horse was really nice and that sort of thing. 643 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: But they become sort of unfairly focused on a town 644 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: called Ladore, which they trash and focus on a man 645 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: called James Roach who kind of runs the town. He 646 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: runs the saloon, and later on they sort of knee 647 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: jerk arrest a massive amount of citizens from this town 648 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: who really had nothing to do with it except that 649 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: they were just the rowdier town in the area. 650 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 3: And they hire. 651 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: Thomas Beers, who's a detective, and so they are systematically 652 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: kind of combing through the area to talk to people. 653 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: But they've not really encountered anything like this before. And 654 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: the community have various meetings where they decide to search properties, 655 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 2: and eventually Alexander York does end up at the Bender property, 656 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: and this is the other kind of famous interaction in 657 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 2: the case, is that he turns up and sort of 658 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: talks to Kate, talks Togebar, but mostly to Kate, and 659 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: she says to him. By this time in the papers, 660 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: William Yorke has been pronounced dead or likely to be dead, 661 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 2: and she says, oh, if you come back by yourself, 662 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: I can contact your brother for you. And he's like, no, 663 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: I think you're all mad, basically, and he leaves the 664 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 2: Bender cabin and he regroups with his younger brother Ed 665 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: and with the rest of the search party, and he says, 666 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 2: I think essentially they're all just idiots, like they're too 667 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: stupid to have committed a crime like this. He calls 668 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: them like simple Germans or something equally derogatory, and just 669 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 2: doesn't think that they're worth pursuing any further. And then 670 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 2: that night flee the state. They just abandoned the cabin 671 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 2: and they disappear. And that sits with Alexander for the 672 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: rest of his life. Is that that interaction he had 673 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 2: with them, not only did he interact with his brother's murderers, 674 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: he prompted them to flee and then didn't think that 675 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: they were capable of committing a crime like that. 676 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: Wow. And so they pack up. Do they pack up 677 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: a wagon or how do they go? 678 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: They have a notoriously badly kept wagon. One of the 679 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 2: wheels is actually kind of pushed the wrong way, and 680 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: this becomes a big clue because at one of the 681 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: dump sites, of the bodies. There's wagon tracks where one 682 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: of the wheels is dished incorrectly, so they jump in 683 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 2: the wagon. They go to a place called Chinout where 684 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: they then catch the train. Basically, they all get on 685 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 2: a train. They abandon the wagon on the outskirts of 686 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: the town. That wagon is then later found and it 687 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 2: has the Groceries sign on it, so everybody recognizes it 688 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: is the Bender's wagon and they split. So the older 689 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: couple go to send Louis, Missouri, and the younger couple 690 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 2: head down into Indian Territory. 691 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: So what becomes of the cabin? They search it and 692 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: they find underneath what's in the basement. 693 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So interestingly, the cabin is sort of left alone 694 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 2: for about a month. There's bad whether there's other things 695 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: going on. And then a local man called Billy Tole 696 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 2: is driving past the cabin and he hears his whining 697 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: noise and it's an animal in distress, and he goes 698 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: to see what it is and he finds pig that's 699 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 2: obviously not been fed for a very long time. He 700 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: finds a lot of dead animals on the property. The 701 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 2: cabin looks a bit like it's been ransacked, and he 702 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: initially thinks, oh, the people have got the Benders as well, 703 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: so this kind of prompts the search, and then over 704 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 2: a three day period, it becomes very apparent that no, 705 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: they didn't get got by the Benders, they were actually 706 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: the people committing the crimes. And they find the bodies 707 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: in the orchard. They find William, they find Mary Anne 708 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 2: and her father, and then it turns into essentially a 709 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: tourist attraction, and thousands and thousands of people descend on 710 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: the cabin and tear it to pieces. 711 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: Do they eventually burn it down or what happens? 712 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: It literally gets dismantled by people looking for souvenirs, So 713 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 2: the railroad company puts on special trains for people to 714 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: come and see the Bender cabin. All these people descend, 715 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: They're pulling up saplings from the orchard, they're stealing things 716 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: from the cabin, They're digging up dirt and putting it 717 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: in jars, all sorts of stuff like this, and then 718 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,359 Speaker 2: people are also selling like fake Bender souvenirs kind of 719 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 2: by the following week, which have nothing to do with 720 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 2: the Bender crimes. One of the major things is that 721 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: before kind of the chaos h ups Leroy Dick finds 722 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: the hammers that are believed to be the murder weapon, 723 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: and we went to see them. They are now on 724 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 2: display in a museum in Cherryville, Kansas. 725 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: It's a big hammer and a small hammer. Is that right? 726 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 2: It's three so it's a big sledge hammer and then 727 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 2: two shoe hammers. And it's sort of debatable which one 728 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 2: was used for what, but all three of them were 729 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 2: found kind of under a stove and they're now on 730 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 2: the wall with like a little certificate that shows their authenticity. 731 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: So Mom Para and Saint Louis and John Geppart and 732 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: Kate Bender are in Indian countries somewhere. Do they just vanish? 733 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: Is that what happens? Is that the end of the story. 734 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: So traditionally the kind of narrative of the bend Of 735 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 2: family has been they committed the crimes, they disappeared. We 736 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 2: don't know what happened to them. Lots of people think 737 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 2: they were killed by a posse of people from the 738 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 2: local area. But one of the major breakthroughs that I 739 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 2: made when I was researching the book was that actually 740 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: detectives knew for quite a long time where the Benders. 741 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 3: Were, and that really what inhibited. 742 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: Their ability to get them was kind of lack of 743 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: funds and lack of cooperation between the states. So they 744 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 2: trace the Benders. So John and Kate jump the train 745 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 2: in Indian Territory. They're then taken by an unnamed guide down 746 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: to Texas to Dennison, and then over the next kind 747 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 2: of year, they regroup with some men called the McPherson brothers, 748 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 2: who are actually the sons of quite a wealthy family 749 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 2: from Kansas who've chosen to live this life of like 750 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: horse thevery instead. One of them is called Missouri Bill 751 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 2: and the other ones just called Frank. And Frank had 752 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 2: just before the Benders fled, Frank murdered a baker in 753 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 2: a town near the Bender cabin after trying to sexually 754 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: assault the baker's wife. So he is the man who 755 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 2: I think is probably a lot more connected the vendor 756 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 2: crimes just because of the level of violence, and when 757 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,800 Speaker 2: he moves into that area, that's when the crimes escalate. 758 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 2: And Missouri Bill is the man who was running this 759 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 2: ring of horse thieves, and he's mentioned by detectives by 760 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: the governor, by an outlaw who later gives a statement 761 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: about the location of the family and the time that 762 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 2: he's spent with them, But it was really interesting for 763 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 2: me to see that they didn't disappear. There was just 764 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: kind of this narrative that they disappeared because it was 765 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 2: almost more embarrassing that they knew where they were but 766 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 2: they couldn't go and get them. 767 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: So you think that was intentional on the part of 768 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: the government at the time to bury this information. 769 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 2: I think Governor Osborne, who's the governor at the time, 770 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 2: he's struggling because not only has he not caught the benders, 771 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 2: he's up for reelection and he is being very heavily 772 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 2: criticized for his kind of financial management. So he just says, well, 773 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 2: that's it. I'm not funding the search anymore. So the 774 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: detectives who are out there are kind of floundering because 775 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: they can't get support from the Texas Rangers, which is 776 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 2: really what they need to be able to go and 777 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 2: get the family because the family are hiding out in 778 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 2: the Texas Panhandle and at the time they know they're there, 779 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: the Red River War it's going on, so there's a 780 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 2: big conflict between indigenous people and the US military, and 781 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 2: the vendors are kind of sequestered in the middle of it, 782 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 2: and they're trading with the tribes, and they're part of 783 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 2: this group of people that fluctuates between kind of ten 784 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 2: people and forty people or who are fugitives. 785 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: So where do we lose track of them in history? 786 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 2: So we lose track of them in about eighteen seventy 787 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 2: seven in the sense that there's a man who is 788 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 2: in prison in eighteen seventy nine called Samuel Merrick, and 789 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: he gives a series of statements to the superintendent of 790 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 2: the prison, who then sends them to the governor of Kansas, 791 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: and he gives really detailed movements of the family who 792 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 2: they're with, because he's a man in prison for horse thievery. 793 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 2: He's caught in Indian Territory with horses that belonged to 794 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 2: a local chief, so he's sent to prison for stealing those. 795 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: And while he's in the prison, he starts talking about 796 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 2: the time he spent with the family, and he lists 797 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 2: their movements right up until he's arrest and then says, 798 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 2: I don't know where they are now, but I could 799 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 2: definitely go and get them. I would be happy to 800 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 2: do this, but you'll need a lot of people. 801 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 3: You'll need someone. 802 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 2: Who knows them and this for me was really interesting 803 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 2: because lots of people felt like this was very legitimate 804 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 2: as a lead. Alexander Yorke expressed support for it as 805 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 2: I went through the statement. It matched up a lot 806 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 2: with detectives statements from earlier on, with things like census 807 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 2: records and other prison records. 808 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 3: But this is never followed up. 809 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: And when he's released from prison, he offers again to 810 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 2: go and get them, and he's just never taken up 811 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 2: on the offer. 812 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: It's amazing, and Alexander York doesn't get a hold of him. 813 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 4: No. 814 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 2: Well, Alexander York's interesting, I think because he gets to 815 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 2: a point where he just wants to move forward from it, 816 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 2: like the guilt is almost too much. He's constantly harangued 817 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 2: by newspaper reporters about did you kill the family? 818 00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 3: Do you know where they went? 819 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 2: And I think I think he would always say the 820 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,799 Speaker 2: same thing, which was, I think they were killed by 821 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 2: other outlaws, which I think he's potentially right there, But 822 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 2: he really tried to distance himself from the whole thing, 823 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 2: and like Mary, was just frustrated that people were only 824 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 2: really interested in them as opposed to the victims and 825 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 2: the families of the victims, and he would have been 826 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,959 Speaker 2: very annoyed because after he died, lots of his obituaries 827 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 2: said that he'd killed the Benders. 828 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: H that's terrible. So what do you think is their 829 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: most likely outcome? Do you agree with Alexander Yorke that 830 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: they were killed by other criminals? 831 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 2: So I think that probably the older and younger couple split. 832 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 2: I think life on the open Frontier and the Texas 833 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 2: Panhandle was extremely difficult and very dangerous at that point 834 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,919 Speaker 2: in time, so they wouldn't have necessarily wanted to stay 835 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 2: in that particular era. 836 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 3: For an extended period of time. 837 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 2: Frank McPherson, he eventually kind of settles in the Colorado area, 838 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 2: which John and Kate would have known well from John's 839 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: time fencing horses. And I think Colorado was also kind 840 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 2: of the place to be in the late nineteenth century. 841 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,439 Speaker 2: You've got like the gold Rush, You've got there's lots 842 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 2: of health springs and all of that sort of thing 843 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 2: going on. And actually the York family they all up 844 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 2: and moved to Colorado. 845 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 3: Where they run very successful businesses. 846 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,800 Speaker 2: And I think it's unlikely that Kate and John would 847 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 2: have tried to pull a scheme like the vendors had 848 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 2: in Kansas. But I also think it's unlikely that they 849 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 2: would have gone on to just not do criminal things, 850 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 2: because I think when you commit a series of crimes 851 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 2: like that, I don't think you can just turn that 852 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 2: off as a personality trace. 853 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,439 Speaker 3: So there's lots of different theories really. I mean, there's 854 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 3: one that. 855 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 2: Kate ended up running quite a well thought of boarding 856 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 2: house in a town in Colorado where she was a 857 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 2: real pillar of the community. Lots of people still believe 858 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 2: that somebody from Kansas hunted them down and killed them, 859 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 2: And then other people believe that some women who were 860 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 2: arrested in eighteen eighty nine and then released were actually 861 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 2: the venders and had been allowed to get away with it. 862 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: But it sounds like you think that their ending was 863 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: a little bit more simple, which was at some point 864 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: they probably became the victims of whatever environment they were 865 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:04,959 Speaker 1: in at. 866 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,399 Speaker 2: The time, exactly, So you think of all the kind 867 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 2: of myriad ways that people were just dying on the 868 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,879 Speaker 2: open frontier. Anyway, it's totally possible that one of them 869 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 2: fell off a horse and died, that one of them 870 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 2: got sick, or they could have been killed by the 871 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 2: US military. By indigenous people or other outlaws they were 872 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 2: probably if they were killed, they might even be killed 873 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 2: by a people who didn't know who they were. And 874 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 2: also the other thing I always get asked, Bend is 875 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 2: such a common surname, they could have just kept that 876 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 2: in Leabette County where they were, where they lived, there 877 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 2: were three other families without surname. 878 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: Well, so you have eleven at least of eleven victims, 879 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: but I imagine probably more. And then that means you 880 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: have at least eleven families out there who got no 881 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: justice whatsoever unless they latched onto the idea that someone 882 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: from their area went out and hunted this group down. 883 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 1: Do you think that that is what predominantly what the 884 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: families settled on, just to have closure and move forward. 885 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 2: That's sort of the prevailing opinion in that region today. 886 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 2: It does allow for a level of closure. It also, 887 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 2: I think for members of the community assuages some guilt 888 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 2: that maybe they feel that they didn't notice what was 889 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 2: going on. I think it also fits into a very 890 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 2: traditional kind of frontier narrative regarding outlaws. They commit their crimes, 891 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 2: they receive justice at the hands of the community, and 892 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 2: it becomes mythologized in this episode of Frontier History in 893 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:31,320 Speaker 2: that region. 894 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, I mean, that's the. 895 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 2: Easiest way really to achieve closure in a case like 896 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 2: this where ultimately there just isn't any What are. 897 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: The lessons for this terrible story of all of these 898 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: dead people in this family that seemingly gets away with it. 899 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,839 Speaker 2: The thing that I found most interesting was how, as 900 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 2: we see throughout the history of crime and even today, 901 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 2: it takes such a specific type of person to go 902 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 2: missing before people will do it anything about it, right, 903 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 2: And obviously you've got historical context, which is general frontier 904 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,240 Speaker 2: life here, but there are a lot of family members 905 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 2: who like try to reach out and say no, I 906 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 2: don't think they would have just disappeared all of this 907 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, and they were just brushed off, either 908 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 2: by law enforcement or members of the community. And I 909 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 2: think obviously it takes George and mary Anne and then 910 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 2: William and his powerful family for it to really do 911 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 2: anything about it, and that we still see now some 912 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 2: people get a lot more attention than others, and it 913 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 2: turns out that all of that's just too late. So 914 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 2: I think it's community awareness really and just listening to. 915 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: People and looking out for each other, look out for 916 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: each other. 917 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And when somebody tells you something's wrong, you 918 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 2: should believe them because they're probably just not going to 919 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 2: say it for whatever reason. And if they're saying it 920 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 2: repeatedly and other people are saying it, then you should 921 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: pay attention. 922 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Wicked, words Stephen Davis on 923 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: a hostage crisis and PTSD. 924 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden, fourteen year old Jennifer Chapple 925 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 4: looks out the window and she sees a couple of 926 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 4: things streaking across the sky, and then they hear explosions, 927 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 4: and then the plane shudders violently. The people who are 928 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 4: outside looking through the window realize their fighter planes and 929 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 4: they're bombing the airport. 930 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: My new book, All That Is Wicked is available for 931 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: pre order now, including the audiobook. All That Is Wicked 932 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: is based on our first season of Tenfold War Wicked. 933 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: You might think you know the whole story of Killer 934 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: Edward Rulof's crimes, but there's so much more. My book 935 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: American Sherlock is also available. This has been an exactly 936 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,959 Speaker 1: right tenfold War media production. The producer is Alexis and Arose. 937 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 1: Our mixer is Ryo Baum. Curtis Heath is our composer. 938 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 1: Nick Toga did the artwork. Il Sabrink designed the website. 939 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff, and Danielle Kramer. 940 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 1: Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more 941 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold more and If you 942 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,720 Speaker 1: know of a historical crime that could use some attention, 943 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: especially if it happened in your family, email us at 944 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 1: info at tenfoldmore wicked dot com. We'll also take your 945 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words