1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that 6 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, 8 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the 10 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantour. 11 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not May Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: Joining us today is Rebecca Engel, an autistic educator, author, 13 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: and powerful advocate for neurodiversity in education. Rebecca brings both 14 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: lived experience and professional insight to her work as a teacher, 15 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: helping students feel seen, understood, and supported in systems that 16 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: weren't always built with them in mind. Through her writing 17 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: and her classroom work, she challenges outdated narratives around autism 18 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: and replaces them with honesty, compassion, and practical understanding. Her 19 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: story is not just about teaching. It's about learning and 20 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: learning and creating spaces where neurodivergent voices are valued rather 21 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: than accommodated as an afterthought. This is a conversation about identity, 22 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: resilience and what happens when autistic educators step in and 23 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: help reciate the future of education from the inside out. 24 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: We'll talk about how she became an author and uses 25 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: that to help people as well. So before we dive 26 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show 27 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: right after a word from our sponsors. Thanks for joining 28 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: us today. 29 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me. 30 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: Oh, it's my pleasure. I understand in your early years 31 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: you were nonverbal. 32 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 33 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: Can you share some of the early moments in your 34 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: life and what challenges helped you create what you have 35 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: become today. 36 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think having to navigate those struggles, you know, 37 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: I always had to fight for something. I always had 38 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 3: to fight for what I wanted to achieve in life. 39 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 3: And my mom will tell you that she always jokes 40 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 3: around that I'm one of her most successful children because 41 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: I've always had to fight to get everywhere. Communication got 42 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: mistaken for intelligence adults. A student, my silence meant lack 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: of understanding, and I was clocking everything. I was clocking 44 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 3: the toe, and I was clocking the room, I was 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: clocking the roles. So I learned how to clock that 46 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: as an adult. And a lot of my needs when 47 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 3: I'm met. So I feel like I overdo my needs now, 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, the hunger, pain, the fear, the overwhelm, the 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: sensory overload. A lot of it, you know, just was ignored. 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 3: So I feel like I overdo self care now. And 51 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,279 Speaker 3: I'm very aware of when I need. 52 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: Things because I overlooked it as a child. 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so when you say you overdo, can you give 54 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: us a few examples of what you mean on overdoing 55 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: some things. 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: In your life, like things that I overdo now? 57 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: Yeah that works. 58 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 59 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 3: So there's days where I just knock out all day long, 60 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: like I don't want to do anything. I sometimes overdo 61 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: with skincare, right, so, like I'll buy way too many 62 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: products to take care of myself. I'll overdo getting supplements 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: all overdue routines. I'm very very picky with my calendar 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: and my timing and my schedule. I am very careful 65 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: about you know, regulating my whole body. I go to 66 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: the chiropractor every week, which is, you know, something that 67 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 3: most people do rarely, if at all. I work out 68 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: twice a week, and I'm very particular about when that happens. 69 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: So I think that's kind of what I mean by 70 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: the overdoing. 71 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: Okay, you said that you felt unsupported and you felt 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of secluded in school. What did that do to you? 73 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: Ultimately you thrive academically because you did get your bachelor's degree, 74 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: then you got your master's in educational policy and leadership 75 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: at Texas Tech. I believe can you tell us the 76 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: steps you took to achieve all this? 77 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of how to best take this question. 78 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: I think, you know, planning my day, scheduling, being always 79 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 3: on top of it was what got me there. But 80 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: I think again, I think challenges that I was constantly 81 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: facing and conflicted with kind of pushed me to keep going. 82 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: Like you know, during my bachelor's I was told I 83 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: was too autistic to teach and I had to graduate, 84 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 3: but I wanted insurance, so you know, I, like you waited early, 85 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: but then I forced myself to immediately start my masters 86 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 3: because I wanted to get out. 87 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: Sure, sure, that makes sense. Now, why in the world 88 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: would someone tell you that you're too autistic to teach. 89 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: You're learning all the things that you need to learn, 90 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: you're doing your studies, you're figuring it all out. This 91 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: just does not make sense. 92 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't make sense. 93 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: The director of education at my university pretty much said 94 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: that I didn't communicate correctly with kids due to my autism, 95 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 3: despite having all five star rankings across all of my evaluations, 96 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 3: and was just always saying that my communication was off 97 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: or not there, which actually set me to set a 98 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 3: communication goal as my goal when I got to my 99 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 3: first year teaching, because I was so self conscious about 100 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: meeting these requirements that I was scared that I was 101 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: scared that my communication was going to get me fired 102 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: and make me lose my job, or make me not 103 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: applicable enough and funny enough. My last two years teaching communication, 104 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 3: but it has been my highest area on my records. 105 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: So I still to this day have no clue what 106 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: this woman met. 107 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: Yes, that's very strange and unprofessional in my opinion. How 108 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: did it start off for you? You said you was nervous, 109 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: which is totally understandable. You're going in and working with 110 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: those kids. So did you start off kind of tentative 111 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: or did you go in there with confidence and say, Hey, 112 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: this is what it's going to be, this is what 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: we're going to do, and let's see where the chips fall. 114 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 3: I was very much, you know, believed in myself and 115 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 3: was very much relatable with the children I teach special education, 116 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 3: So I think that helped calm my nerves. I feel 117 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: like if I were around neurotypical children all the time, 118 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 3: I feel like I would have to mask or hide 119 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: my stimming or my communication style and things like that. 120 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: But I'm very open with my students, like I'm overwhelmed 121 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 3: right now, please stop right or you know, we're allowed 122 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 3: to have those conversations. And it goes both ways. And 123 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: I tell them that at the beginning of the year, like, hey, like, 124 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: you know, you have sensory needs, but so do I 125 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: and this is my background, and a lot of the time, 126 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 3: you'd be surprised how shockingly open they are to those things. 127 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: That's really good to hear. Now, some kids tend to 128 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: question others that say they're autistic. Did you have that 129 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: issue or did you find that connection you was hoping for? 130 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: Right from the start. 131 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: I automatically connect. 132 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 3: I feel like I teach the younger grades, so I 133 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: don't think they think of they don't like question it. 134 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 3: And you know, I don't go up to my kids 135 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: and straight up say I'm autistic in ADHD, right, because 136 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: some of them don't even know what those terms are yet. 137 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: And some of them aren't autistic or ADHD themselves. They 138 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: have other neuroniverse traits like dyslexi or dysgraphiaskakia, right, And 139 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 3: so I'm very just like upfront about my sensory needs 140 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: and things that trigger me or set me off rather 141 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: than the disability itself. And I feel like they connect 142 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: with that, like, oh you know that nowise sets me 143 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: off too, or that texture feels weird to me too, right, 144 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 3: or things that are palatable really to any human, but 145 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: more offsetting for evergent individuals. 146 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: That makes total sense. How long did you teach before 147 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: you decided to move on to other things. 148 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: I'm still teaching, Oh you are. 149 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: That's great. Are you teaching the same age groups as 150 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: you were before? Better yet? What are some of the 151 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: challenges you've seen now that you've been in teaching for 152 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: a few years. 153 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've been teaching for two years now if 154 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: you count my student teaching and stuff, a little over three, 155 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: and I would say that funny enough, I've actually been 156 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 3: in a self contained unit. I've been in a resource classroom, 157 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: which is like a pullout setting, and I've been a 158 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 3: dyslexia therapist, so I've kind of seen all three sites. 159 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: Resource you're pulling out your kids who are autistic ADHD, 160 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: but not enough for that self contained setting. And of 161 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: course I've done fifth and sixth grade self contained. I've 162 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: done three through five resource and co teach, which is 163 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: like inclusion minutes, so I'm going into the classroom and 164 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 3: helping kids one on one in their generic setting. And 165 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: then I've done dyslexia pullout for kinder all the way 166 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 3: to six grade. So I've seen all the grades pretty 167 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 3: much from your early primary to six. 168 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: So, yeah, what were some of the challenges that you 169 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: felt were or could be bigger than what you thought 170 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: they might be or how am I going to handle this? 171 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,239 Speaker 1: So what are some of the challenges that you overcame 172 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: either personally or you helped a student overcome some of 173 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: those challenges. 174 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of my challenges as an educator really are 175 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,479 Speaker 3: handling noise overwhelm. 176 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: Especially in those co teach setting. 177 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: I had to find the correct environment, right because I 178 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: knew that the twenty five to thirty kids at a time, 179 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: even if I was only working with one, was too 180 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 3: much for me. And then of course in the self 181 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 3: contained setting, I had a lot of kids with autism 182 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 3: and they had severe. 183 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: Needs that need to be met. But not only were. 184 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: They autistic, a lot of them were deaf or blind 185 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: as well, So I was dealing with the nonverbal communication 186 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: and that and I had never gone through being deaf 187 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: or blind, right, so despite being autistic, I had to 188 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 3: almost connect like, okay, beca well now, you know, take 189 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 3: the fact that you were nonverbal, and imagine if your eyes, 190 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 3: you know, didn't work the right way too, or imagine 191 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: if your ears had. 192 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: A hearing loss. 193 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my gosh, Like I kind 194 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: of had to step into their shoes even more so. 195 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: And I guess one of the things I thought about 196 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: was like, I don't know how a neurotypical teacher who 197 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 3: doesn't have the background of being neurodivergent, also doesn't have 198 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: the background of being you know, dead or blind, steps 199 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: into these shoes and has to, you know, imagine this 200 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: classroom or the structure for this child not understanding one 201 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: hundred percent of them, you know, And so I had 202 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 3: to reshape, just pulling for my personal experience and really 203 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: dig into like how do you teach kids like this? 204 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: And so I had to take something that I didn't 205 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: have to in the past. And then for the dyslexia, again, 206 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 3: I'm not dyslexic, So I think that that opened a 207 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: whole nother door, right. I had to be more open 208 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: minded than I was with that resource setting because I 209 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 3: was the resource kid, and so it was a lot 210 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: easier for me to navigate that than it was the 211 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 3: other two settings because I hadn't lived those settings. I 212 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: was self contained in pre K, but after that I 213 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: was jen ed. 214 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: So, okay, being autistic yourself. Autistic people are known to 215 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: have their meltdowns. Have you had situations where you were 216 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of a class you felt a meltdown 217 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: coming on? How did you handle that? 218 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. 219 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: I have a color coded card next to me at 220 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 3: my kidney table, so if I have a moment like that, 221 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: I can show it to my students and they tend 222 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: to know. Sometimes I'll do this, and my kids immediately know, 223 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: like I'll put my hands up for those maybe listening 224 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: auditory only, and I'll close my eyes and they'll be like, 225 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 3: uh oh, they know, like oh oh, miss Ingle's over stimulated, 226 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 3: and so they'll they'll kind of reset, or one of 227 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 3: my other kids will be like, hey, like look, she's overwhelmed, 228 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: like like pointing at me, or I say take a 229 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 3: minute and read this real fast. 230 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to a second, and they know. 231 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: I mean, that's one of the best parts about teaching 232 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: your at a virging kids is because I can do 233 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: the same thing with them or you know, if I 234 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 3: stim like this or you know, rub my hands together 235 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 3: or whatever, they're well aware of why I would be 236 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: doing that, and sometimes they join in like oh, we 237 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 3: can unmask right now, which is awesome. 238 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: Okay, we've covered your meltdowns. Now what about the kids. 239 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: Because they're not adults, they are going to handle their 240 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: meltdowns completely differently than you might. So how do you 241 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: help them through their meltdowns so that everything's okay and 242 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: you can move forward with your class? 243 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 244 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: I have a regulational system which is available on my 245 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: Teachers pay teachers, but it's pretty much a three zone system, 246 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: So it starts with regulating their nervous system. 247 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: The one area is full of weighted tools and activities. 248 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 3: The other one is full of like sensory supports with calmings, 249 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: so like maybe running in a circle or repeated motion 250 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 3: of the body, while the other one is noise seeking. 251 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: And then the third area is like journaling, releasing my emotions, drawling, 252 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 3: And the whole goal is that they're more comfortable than 253 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 3: your desk seat. So a lot of my students know 254 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: to follow that system, and I slowly teach them that system, 255 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: and I actually model it when I'm overwhelmed, and so 256 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 3: they're like, oh, okay in singles doing it, Let's join 257 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: her if they need it. 258 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: And some of my kids, I'm just like, are you 259 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 2: not ready right now to learn? 260 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 3: When they're going through a hard time, kids stop processing 261 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: when they're not ready to learn. I can get them 262 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 3: to sit still and comply, but they're not going to 263 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: actually pick up anything i'm teaching them at a certain point, 264 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 3: and so I'll just say like, go relax, go calm 265 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: your body, go make sure that you're okay. They know 266 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 3: they're they're areas that they're allowed to be in I 267 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 3: don't really have strict rules on that, you know, don't 268 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: be at distraction, and we're good. And then you know, 269 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: I call them in the next day and I remind 270 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 3: them of you know, like, hey, this is what we 271 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: did yesterday, are you ready to learn it today? And 272 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: most of the time, if you just say okay, I'm 273 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 3: not even going to force you, within five or ten minutes, 274 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: they're like, oh, I'm now. And I didn't even have 275 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: to fight them to try. But they watched their peers 276 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 3: and they're like, well they're having fun. Oh wow, they're 277 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: enjoying themselves, and they end up joining into the lessons. 278 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: So sometimes it doesn't even take the full class. 279 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: Okay, now, what about some of the neurotypical teachers. Have 280 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: you had any of them that questioned what you were 281 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: doing or they just do not understand what you're doing. 282 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: How have you handled that? 283 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? So funny enough. 284 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: The reason I've been in three classroom settings in two 285 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: educational years is because my second job, they actually forced 286 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: me to resign. I was following that three space model 287 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: and they told me you need to have one calm 288 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: down corner. 289 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: I was like, but I don't believe in one calm 290 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: down corner. 291 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 3: I have three calm down corners, because not everybody calms 292 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 3: down the same way. And so I was in an 293 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: autism unit and I got all six autistic children that 294 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: were self contained to actually attend gen at. 295 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: Classes all day long with support. 296 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: But the fact that I was able to do that 297 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: by October was considered oppressive. 298 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: They would come back and regulate and then go back 299 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 2: to class. 300 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: I mean, they had their moments, and they knew that 301 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: they were allowed to come back whenever they needed to, 302 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: but naturally they were internally motivated to stay in class. 303 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: And the neurotypical teachers said, you need one calm down corner, 304 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: and the neurotypical district leaders said, you need one calm 305 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: down corner, and you need to use tokens. You need 306 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: tokens to control the kids. So every time they come back, 307 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: but you tell them to know that they have to 308 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 3: stay in class, you take a token away. 309 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: And pretty much they wanted me to. 310 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: Train them like a dog, like, here's a treat every 311 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: time you do what I say every day of the week, 312 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: and I refused. I said, no, this is my system. 313 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 3: All of my kids get a treat at the end 314 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 3: of the day regardless of how today win. Thank you 315 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 3: for being here in the morning, and thank you for 316 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: being here at the end of the day. And it 317 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: has nothing to do with their behavior. And my district 318 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: was very much against it. So I ended up having 319 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: to leave the school I was at. They called me 320 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: into a meeting with HR and they said, you can 321 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: either grow on a growth plan to learn how we 322 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: do things, or we can have you resigned. And I 323 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I'll peacefully leave, so I did leave. 324 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: So I've had neurotypicals misunderstand I've also had neurotypical teachers 325 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: tell me that they will not provide accommodations to a 326 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: student with autism or ADHD unless they are medicated. 327 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Wow, now what about their parents? Because you're autistic, they 328 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: should see that you understand them better than the other 329 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: teachers and that should have made a difference. Did you 330 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: get the support from them right away? 331 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 332 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: So I've mostly taught with children that are homeless or 333 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 3: in poverty, so I've had a mix of parental involvement. However, 334 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: when my parents are involved or talking to me, I've 335 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: never had a parent who's upset with me, and that's rare. 336 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: As a special ed teacher. I feel like I've never 337 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: had an advocates in a meeting. I've always had supportive 338 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 3: parents and parents who, you know, thank me. I've had 339 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: parents thank me for being young, like who are just 340 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: happy that their teacher is under a certain age. I've 341 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: had parents just meet with me and ask me about 342 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 3: my autism, and I'm very open with them. I love it, 343 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 3: like I love that I have that connection with my students, 344 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 3: and you know, I feel like a celebrity when I 345 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 3: walked through with parents and teachers or students, because it's 346 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 3: parents and students are always like screaming my name, and 347 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: so it's like feeling like a celebrity when I walked 348 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: down the hallway, especially like during student awards and things 349 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: like that. 350 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really cool. That's awesome. At what 351 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: point did you start to write about your experiences? When 352 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: did you start doing that? 353 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, So my college years really inspired that. I was 354 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 3: actually a volunteer with a refugee group in San Antonio. 355 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 3: It was required for my history degree under my bachelor's 356 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 3: degree because I had bachelor's degree in history and when 357 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: in education, and one of the requirements for this degree 358 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: was that I had to do like. 359 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: Three hundred hours with refugees. 360 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 3: In order to do those three hundred hours, I went 361 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 3: to a tutoring room at an elementary. 362 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: School and worked with these refugee students. 363 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 3: One of my college professors was like, we need you 364 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: to write a book on books good to teach kids 365 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 3: with autism or kids about autism. And every book I 366 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 3: found was written by someone who was not autistic. Every 367 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 3: children's book I found was written by the mom or 368 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: the dad, or the sibling of, or the cousin of. 369 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: And I was just like why, Like how does this 370 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 3: genuinely teach kids about autism? Like it teaches the parents' perspective, 371 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 3: but it doesn't teach how the kid feels. And so 372 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: I was like, pro I can't do this, Like this 373 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 3: doesn't exist. And so I was like, I'm making my 374 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 3: own book. And so one of my college professors, doctor 375 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 3: David Compost, he handed me a book that he was 376 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 3: inspired by that was written by someone who was deaf, 377 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 3: and it was like a children's graphic novel, and he 378 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 3: was like, you need to read this and inspire your book. 379 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 3: So I inspired my own writing from that and wrote 380 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 3: it and published it, and then people were like you know, 381 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 3: you speak out against these token economies and these behavior charts, 382 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 3: but why and so I was like, well, that's book 383 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: number two. Then I just never stopped. I had people 384 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 3: come to me who were like, I want to share 385 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: my disability story, but I don't know how. So then 386 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: I made an anthology and then people started asking me 387 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 3: about stemming and I was like, ooh, like I should 388 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 3: make a book out of that. 389 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: So that's my most recent release. 390 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about that a little bit more. 391 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: Your recent release, Can you give us a little insight 392 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: on what it is, what it's about, and a little 393 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: bit on what people can expect about what's in it. 394 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, my most recent release is The Way I Move, 395 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: and it's literally about stemming, on the body movements of stemming, 396 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: and talks about like why we stem, how we stem. 397 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 3: But I have some neurological definitions in the front so 398 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 3: that you can understand the neurology behind the stimming and 399 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 3: the movement. Also, it's very child friendly for kids to read. 400 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: But ultimately it's this little girl who's based on me 401 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: name Riley, and Riley goes through the day and she's 402 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 3: stemming at different things. She's feeling different textures in the 403 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 3: grocery stores. She's going to different you know, different things 404 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 3: at our house, and then ultimately they cause her to 405 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 3: stim And so it's very just talks about the ways 406 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: we stem, how we stem, what causes us to stim 407 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 3: and are very clear about everybody stemming differently. 408 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: Sure, I think that's awesome. Now, how many pages do 409 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: your books have? 410 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? 411 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: So both my children's books are around thirty to thirty 412 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 3: five pages, and my adult books are anywhere from one 413 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 3: fifty to one eighty. 414 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: Oh, that's perfect. How many books do you have total? 415 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: I have four books I've written in fifteen that I've 416 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: co authored. 417 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: Okay, now let's dig a little bit into your books 418 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: that you have co authored. Are they the same topics? 419 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: Can you give us a little background on them? 420 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? 421 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 3: So a lot of my books that are co authored 422 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 3: are poetry. I was a part of a group called 423 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: the Unsealed and I literally entered these competitions to win 424 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 3: money for college, and they came and they were like, hey, 425 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 3: we're going to actually publish you. And then Carrie Margo, 426 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 3: a popular voice, I entered his scholarship and he was like, hey, 427 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 3: I'm publishing your voice too, So he put my story 428 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: in a book of his, and then The Unsealed put 429 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 3: my story in their book books. 430 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 2: And then I was invited. 431 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: By doctor Shila Day out of San Diego, California to 432 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 3: publish a book called Woman of Purpose, and it was 433 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 3: her first ever one, and this book is very successful. 434 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 3: When I was invited by her to publish, I still 435 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 3: had only published one book of my own. And then 436 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 3: I had co author nine poetry books at that point 437 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 3: through the Unsealed, and it was just contest. I entered 438 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: them publishing them, and Shila invited me to collaborate on 439 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: her second book because one of her authors dropped out, 440 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 3: and so she was like, oh, you can be on 441 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: my second one. So that's mostly how that came about. 442 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 3: And then I've been quoted in other works and stuff 443 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 3: just accidentally. 444 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: I think that's awesome. Now you have one that's calls 445 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: stepping in my Shoes, right, Yes, can you give us 446 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: a little background on that. I'm sure it sounds like 447 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: something that means walking my shoes for a while and 448 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: maybe you'll understand. 449 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: Yes. 450 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's my first ever children's book. We've sold 451 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 3: fifteen thousand copies. 452 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: Of that book. 453 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: Wow. 454 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: Nice, And that came. 455 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 3: Out in October twenty and that book is very centered 456 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: on literally like walking into the shoes of what it's 457 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 3: like to go to school as an autistic Okay, and 458 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 3: so that's the one that college inspired me to write. 459 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: Nice. Now, are you self publishing or do you have 460 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: a publisher? 461 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 2: I have a hybrid publisher. Now. When I first started publishing, 462 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 2: it was me just me. 463 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. So you have someone that's helping you now, Yeah. 464 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: Do you have illustration in your books or is it 465 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: mostly just words? 466 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 2: Both of my children's books are fully illustrated, and then 467 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: the other two books are no illustrations because they're adult 468 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 2: books except for the cover. 469 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: Now, which does better your books for the children or 470 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: the ones for the adults? 471 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: My children's books do better than my adult books. 472 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: What do you think the reasoning is that the adults 473 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: don't dig a little deeper and read your books so 474 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: they can understand more. Is it because you think they 475 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: might not understand or what do you think the reasoning 476 00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: is behind this? 477 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 3: I think there's a fear of change. I think that 478 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 3: a lot of people fear changing the system. Right, we 479 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 3: know something is the way it is and it's going 480 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: to stay that way, and a lot of my books 481 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 3: threaten the system. You know, the school to prison pipelines 482 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 3: are threatened. The behavior system is threatened. PBIS, which started 483 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety is threatened. ABA is threatened. And I 484 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 3: feel like we fear those changes. And my children's books 485 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 3: don't have anything controversial. Right, this is what it's like 486 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 3: to be autistic in school and how I talk, and 487 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 3: then the other one is how I move. So, you know, 488 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 3: stimming is something everyone knows about, and so is being autistic, right, 489 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: like communicating with a device or communicating with you know, 490 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 3: your hands, Like we are well aware those two things exist. 491 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 3: They're not controversial, while my adult books are very much controversial. 492 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: What is it that you dig into that's so controversial? 493 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: You say you're challenging the system. How are you addressing 494 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: the system that is so controversial? 495 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, so my whole entire, like line of work is 496 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 3: challenging positive behavior intervention supports. Then, actually my shirt speaks 497 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 3: to it. I'm not a behavior chart, I'm not a 498 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: point system, I'm not a principal award. I'm not a 499 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 3: classroom token. And schools rely on these systems heavily. You'll 500 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: see that, you know, like you have perfect attendance, awards 501 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 3: and a b ho aor role, and I speak and 502 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 3: say that all of those are abusive and our long 503 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 3: term development, and a lot of people are like, well, 504 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 3: but you know there's this and this and this and this, 505 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 3: and people attack me. I mean, both of my children's 506 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 3: books are righted five stars and my other two books 507 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 3: are three point five and four point two. 508 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 2: And there's a reason for that. 509 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: Well, I think that you're not wrong. I think the 510 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: system does need to be challenged at times. I've been 511 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: doing this podcast for about two and a half years now. 512 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: When I first started, I knew nothing about autism at all. 513 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: Now I've heard and seeing so many people take so 514 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: many different paths to get where they wanted to get 515 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: for their children and themselves. There really is no right 516 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: or wrong path. It really comes down to what we're 517 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: for you. Sometimes people want to do it a certain way, 518 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: and it's almost like trying to put a round peg 519 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: in a square hole. It just doesn't work. What do 520 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: you see in the future for what you were doing. 521 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: You're trying to change the system to make it better 522 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: for the kids and getting a little bit of a pushback. 523 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 1: So how do you see this going, and what do 524 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: you see happening for your future? 525 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I expect at certain points to be 526 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 3: canceled or attacked. 527 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: I already have been multiple times. 528 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 3: I definitely, you know, expect to see the change. 529 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: Though. 530 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 3: I think that the louder my voice is out there, 531 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: that the more people will open their eyes. 532 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: I've had hundreds of people, even people who. 533 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 3: Practice PBIS, say hey, like, you gave me a soluble 534 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 3: solution to get rid of this system, and so now 535 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 3: I'm going to use the system that is created by you. 536 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: Right then. 537 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 3: I think that that was the biggest problem in this 538 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 3: fight is that, you know, so many people are like, 539 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 3: I hate PBIS, don't use it, But what are we 540 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 3: using instead? And I feel like that's what I bring 541 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: to this fight. And so my hope is that the 542 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 3: instead that I've brought in what I've designed, is used 543 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: instead of this PBIS system. And I think that over 544 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 3: time I'll see that adaptation. 545 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: Yeah that's great. Now, how do you see this expanding? 546 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: Do you see this expanding past your local area and 547 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: then hopefully to a national stage, or do you see 548 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: it maybe even going worldwide? 549 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've spoken internationally, I've spoken in all the 550 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 3: way virtually through Zoom. I've spoken in New Zealand. There's 551 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 3: people in Canada who have my voice that have been 552 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 3: published with me. I have following and different parts of Asia. 553 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 3: I have a platform pretty widespread. This year, I'll be 554 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 3: in California, I'll be in Minnesota virtually, Kinnesseee virtually. I 555 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: just heard back from a conference in Rhode Island, So yeah. 556 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: That's awesome. I love it. How can people contact you 557 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: and most importantly, how can they follow you to see 558 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: what you're doing? 559 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 3: Yeah? So my Facebook is stitches and stanzas. My Instagram 560 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: is ditches stanzas, and I'll have a website which is 561 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 3: coming soon. It's ditches stanzas dot com. 562 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: Perfect. Now, how do they find your books and where 563 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: can they get them? 564 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 3: So if you just look up Rebecca Ingle on Google, 565 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 3: my Amazon link is the first link you'll see, and 566 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 3: you can find all four of my writings. 567 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: Awesome. Now, in closing, what is important that you think 568 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: our listeners need to hear not only about your writings, 569 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: but what you were trying to do moving forward? 570 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? 571 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 3: I think that ultimately, what I want people to understand 572 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: is you can't solve every child through compliance. You can't 573 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 3: solve every nervous system through compliance. You have to allow 574 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 3: for student choice, you have to allow for narritivergent choice, 575 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 3: but you also have to move away from compliance based 576 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: systems in order to do that. 577 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, this has been great, great conversation, great information. 578 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today. 579 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me. 580 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: Oh, it's been my pleasure. Once again, thanks for taking 581 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: time out of your busy schedule to listen to our 582 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as 583 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone 584 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: who has a story to share, tell them to contact 585 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: us at why NOTOMT World. One last thing, Spread the 586 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: word about why Not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests 587 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: that show you are not alone in this world.