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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: This is a show where we recap our early episodes

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Speaker 2: with new case info and lots of old feelings.

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Speaker 1: Today we're rewinding to episode ninety eight, which we named

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Speaker 1: grasp It. Why did we do that?

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Speaker 2: I wonder we're about to find out. This episode originally

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Speaker 2: was released on December seventh, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into the intro of episode ninety eight.

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Speaker 3: Should we do some coffee steps for the ASMR people?

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, oh god. Welcome to my favorite Murder the

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Speaker 3: Coffee episode.

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Speaker 2: Recording at around four o'clock in the afternoon the.

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Speaker 3: Sooty skies of Los Angeles, California. It's just everything is burning.

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Speaker 2: The world is burning down, and right in the center

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Speaker 2: of it, we're here to help you enjoy Murder Karen.

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Speaker 3: The soothing voice of Karen Kilgarreth.

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Speaker 2: And Georgia heart Stark over to my left, and of

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Speaker 2: course the big Sipper himself, Stephen Ray Morris. Yeah, did

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Speaker 2: you do a nice loud one? Could you hear yourself? No,

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Speaker 2: you got to take the hit for the show, all right.

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Speaker 2: He took another big SIPs like I'm making him chug

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Speaker 2: it like he's joining a frat.

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Speaker 1: Let's pause and chug coffee and then let's get back

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Speaker 1: on and talk.

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Speaker 2: And just start screaming like we can't talk because our

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Speaker 2: mouths are burned. That's a that's a subset of ASMR videos.

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Speaker 2: What burned mouth ASMR videos?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I watch? I repeat for like

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Speaker 3: that wasn't true? What were you about to say? Oh,

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Speaker 3: I just watched this video.

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Speaker 1: There's there's the sn instagram called like burn it, and

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Speaker 1: they just fucking burn things. I think it's like an

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Speaker 1: ASMR for your eyeballs.

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Speaker 3: Is that a thing?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's called and they especially if you're an narsonist.

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Speaker 3: What's it called, Stephen? Do you know? No, it's what

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Speaker 3: liking things burning down is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like watching things burn so the poor acid on

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Speaker 1: like soap, and you just watch it and sometimes you

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Speaker 1: could hear it bubbling, or they'll just torch like a

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Speaker 1: fucking like a little toy, plastic child's toy, Oh, child's toy.

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Speaker 1: But I watched them melting a tube of lipstick over

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Speaker 1: and over, so satisfying.

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Speaker 3: What did they use to melt it? Like a fire?

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Speaker 3: Like a lighter? Wow? It was so soothing and satisfying.

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Speaker 3: I bet did it all did?

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Speaker 2: Like the liquid, like the lipstick itself melt and then

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Speaker 2: the plastic melt afterwards.

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Speaker 3: It's the lipstick they did. No, I'm just saying, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they didn't the order of melting to me. They only

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Speaker 3: put it on to the lipstick and the lipstick melted.

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Speaker 1: Oh not the that was it. Elvis has joined us.

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Speaker 1: By Elvis, let's talk about murder.

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Speaker 2: I have an update from the Amish murders that I

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Speaker 2: talked about a couple of weeks ago. This email says

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Speaker 2: Karen Gjor just even and all the animals lost my

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Speaker 2: shit listening to you tell the little Boy Blue murder.

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Speaker 2: My friends made fun of me, so it would be

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Speaker 2: ideal if you could read this on the podcast, so

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Speaker 2: they feel Hella dumb in your fucking face.

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Speaker 3: I grew up farm you, so yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'll read it.

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Speaker 3: Who doesn't.

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Speaker 2: I grew up on a farm around the area where

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Speaker 2: the body was found. But I had to let you

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Speaker 2: know that you miss the uplifting gives you hope in

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Speaker 2: the whole fucked up story ending. The people of Chester

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Speaker 2: population two hundred and twenty five, raised money to bury

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Speaker 2: the unidentified boy under the name of Matthew, which means

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Speaker 2: gift from God. The memorial service was packed with four

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Speaker 2: hundred people, almost double the population of the entire town.

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Speaker 3: People still visit his grave.

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Speaker 2: And leave to and flowers, and they maintain his memorial,

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Speaker 2: even rebuilding it after a tornado. I grew up there

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Speaker 2: about a decade later, and I still heard the story

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Speaker 2: and my parents pointed out the memorial every time we

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Speaker 2: drove by. The town completely adopted the little boy Blue,

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Speaker 2: and even now feel so strongly about honoring his memory.

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Speaker 2: Just thought you might like to know that even though

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Speaker 2: there are crazy assholes who murder their wives, roommates, and children,

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Speaker 2: there are also tiny Nebraska towns who open.

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Speaker 3: Their hearts to show a lot of love.

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Speaker 2: SSDGM can't wait to catch you in Saint Louis in

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, Kayleie, I love it Nebraska. I

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Speaker 2: love a I mean always let us know if there's

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Speaker 2: an uplifting ending we've missed.

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Speaker 3: Please, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Can someone email us right now and tell me about

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Speaker 1: my story this week's uplifting ending because I couldn't find it.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's a bummer, yeah, I okay, okay, you were

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Speaker 3: gonna tell me about a show that you watch that

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Speaker 3: you really like called Woar. It's a movie, Okay, it's

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Speaker 3: a documentary.

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Speaker 2: So it's an author named Gayta Leise, who was very

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Speaker 2: famous for doing kind of like expose type of s, say,

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Speaker 2: long reads in the seventies. I've never I made most

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Speaker 2: of that up based on what I saw briefly in

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Speaker 2: this documentary.

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Speaker 3: I've always started his name.

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Speaker 2: I've never read him, but anyway, he's clearly brilliant and

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Speaker 2: has been doing it forever. And he got contacted by

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Speaker 2: a man. I'll just do this the lightest version possible,

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Speaker 2: so there's no spoilers. He was contacted by a man

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Speaker 2: who had a thirty year secret, and the secret is

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Speaker 2: because obviously the name of the movie's voy year. The

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Speaker 2: man owned a motel that he set up so that

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Speaker 2: he could go watch people through the vents in the

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Speaker 2: ceilings in every room.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. But he didn't record it on video.

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Speaker 2: He just would go up there watch them and then

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Speaker 2: recorded in minute detail what he saw, like into a

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Speaker 2: tape recorder, into a journal, and then he basically gave

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Speaker 2: Gates Leaves these writings.

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Speaker 3: Oh can you imagine how happy he she was?

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Speaker 2: You have to see it because at first I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is so weird and disgusting.

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Speaker 3: This guy is such a pervert, but.

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Speaker 2: No one's acting like that at the beginning, and it's

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Speaker 2: just a fascinating I just highly recommend.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to watch that.

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Speaker 1: Do you think you've ever been like watched illegally, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, like in a hotel room?

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Speaker 3: Odds are yes. God, I think I would think.

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Speaker 1: All the gross things I've done, and I hope it

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Speaker 1: wasn't then in a hotel room.

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Speaker 2: Man, Well, I think that's the appeal of hotel room.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to It's like this weird kind of neutral

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Speaker 2: space where you get to do things you would never do.

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Speaker 3: At home, right, And so that's kind of.

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Speaker 2: Like he he was already a voyeur and then he

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Speaker 2: bought the it's a motel, he bought it with that

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Speaker 2: in mind. It's crazy because he knew that would be

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Speaker 2: the perfect place.

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Speaker 3: Why am I like, well, at least he didn't videotape them.

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Speaker 3: It's like that's not better, I know.

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Speaker 2: But these days we're all just trying to go like

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Speaker 2: is the worst thing ever? We're trying to like, can

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Speaker 2: we hold back a little judgment? But I think that's

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Speaker 2: what this documentary is kind of about, is the way

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Speaker 2: we all do that in lots of different ways.

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Speaker 3: I love it. It's good. I highly recommend it.

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Speaker 1: I want to recommend this show that I found that

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Speaker 1: I had to watch three times on Amazon. It's a pilot.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's got I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: gotten picked up yet. It's called c Oak and it's

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Speaker 1: so fucking weird and good. It's like a dark comedy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's Glenn Close. There's this like boring old woman who

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Speaker 1: lives with her like niece and nephew. Niece's a nephew,

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Speaker 1: and it's fucking crazy and gets really dark.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I want to say.

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Speaker 1: This essentially essentially, and I'm kind of spoiling it, but

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Speaker 1: this is what the p okay Glenn Close, Jack Quaid,

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Speaker 1: he's like the boy in it, and he's like the

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Speaker 1: cutest little thing you've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: He's like a guy. He's like a grown man. Is

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Speaker 3: he Dennis Quaid's relative?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Is it c Oak like the Ocean s E A

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Speaker 3: s E A Oak. It's like and I think it

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Speaker 3: takes place in a like dystopian future A kind of Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's really good. I want to watch more episodes. I

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Speaker 3: hope they make more now. I really want to watch it.

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Speaker 3: Can I do one more? Because it just did. I

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Speaker 3: didn't talk about Godless last week?

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Speaker 1: Did I.

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Speaker 2: It's a western that's on Netflix, and apparently I tweeted

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Speaker 2: about it how bad ass it is because it's great

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Speaker 2: and Merrett Weaver is one of the stars and.

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Speaker 3: She was from Nurse Jackie. She's one of my very

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Speaker 3: favorite actresses.

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Speaker 2: She's the one who gave that Emmy speech by walking

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Speaker 2: up and going thanks and leaving, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I've never loved anyone more.

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Speaker 3: She's the best. Oh it's good.

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Speaker 2: But she's also such a great, great, great actress. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's this. It's basically this town in this town, a

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Speaker 2: western town and I think it's New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember.

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Speaker 2: They're just besieged by bad guys and what happens to

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Speaker 2: the town. There's a little history before, there's a certain circumstance.

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Speaker 3: Is it a western?

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Speaker 2: It's a Western? And but Lady Mary from Downton Abbey

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Speaker 2: is in it. Michelle Dockery, this amazing actor, British actor

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Speaker 2: named Jack somebody who is just like hot as can be,

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Speaker 2: and then Jeff Daniels plays.

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Speaker 3: The bad guy. Oh I think Vince and I started

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Speaker 3: watching this.

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Speaker 2: It's very slow at first because it's a Western, and

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Speaker 2: it's like they're doing it just like Westerns get done.

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Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how much Westerns bore me, and

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Speaker 1: I know, like I know I'm going to get shipped

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Speaker 1: for that, but.

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Speaker 2: It's like, well, it's your opinion. They're so slow, well

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Speaker 2: not all of them. And sometimes it's I feel like

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Speaker 2: this knew what it was doing, so it had it

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Speaker 2: did a thing at the beginning that was so crazy.

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Speaker 3: Also, Sam h the one from Law and Order who

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Speaker 3: I love, Oh yeah with the uh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, there's a beginning that goes you just are like

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Speaker 2: what the fuck is this? And then and then it

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Speaker 2: goes into really unfolding. But there's an interesting thing. Someone

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Speaker 2: sent me a link that said I got bummed out

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Speaker 2: about that show after I read this article, and it

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Speaker 2: was an article that was like trying to be a takedown,

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Speaker 2: saying people are saying this is the feminist Western we've

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Speaker 2: all been waiting for, and here's how it's not. But

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Speaker 2: I would just encourage people because I know sometimes people

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Speaker 2: write those things, and I understand it's kind of trying

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Speaker 2: to say, like, don't label things the thing that you

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Speaker 2: say it is if it's not going to do a

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Speaker 2: B and.

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Speaker 3: C, especially if the person who made it that wasn't

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Speaker 3: their intention.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it was their intention, but I will

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Speaker 2: argue that you see women in this series doing things

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Speaker 2: you have never seen them in any modern or otherwise

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Speaker 2: kind of show before, and this is the Old West,

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Speaker 2: so it should it like.

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Speaker 3: Has more meaning. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just thought it was really brilliantly written and acted.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, just in case somebody's gotten a hold of

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Speaker 2: a bad article, I would just say, test the waters

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Speaker 2: first for at least a.

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Speaker 3: Couple episodes, because it's I think it's really good.

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Speaker 2: Stephen just gave me a printed up Instagram Apparently this

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Speaker 2: is what you kids spend all your time on on

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Speaker 2: this Instagram. I don't go on there, but it was

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Speaker 2: from Colleen Elizabeth. Colleen's her name was Colleen.

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Speaker 3: What'd you say?

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Speaker 2: God, damn it, Clarissa explains it all everything, she replied.

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Speaker 2: She sent a picture of what she gave me and

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Speaker 2: drawing that we talked about last week.

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Speaker 3: The beautiful horizon drawing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah she yeah, so she said. I gave a painting

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Speaker 2: to mfm's Cercle Garriff at the Minneapolis show. I was

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Speaker 2: too broke to buy good tickets, so my friend and

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Speaker 2: I bought cheap ones and I left the painting with

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Speaker 2: a girl sitting at the VIP table. I was pretty

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Speaker 2: sure it would never make it to her. The shout

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Speaker 2: out on the pod was more than I ever expected,

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Speaker 2: and the outpouring of support is overwhelming. My shop is

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Speaker 2: empty thanks to a few Murderinos who bought things. New

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Speaker 2: work is coming soon thanks to you guys. I'm humbled

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Speaker 2: by the support. Also, my frames are made by my

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Speaker 2: incredible boyfriend at mn of Woodcraft. He's an amazing woodworker

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Speaker 2: and the best frame maker I've never paid. And I

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Speaker 2: specifically mentioned the frame because it's the coolest.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's floating inside a frame.

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Speaker 1: I went on her site because we posted. You can

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Speaker 1: see the photo on Instagram, my favorite murder Instagram. I

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Speaker 1: went on her site and I'm like, fucking gonna buy

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Speaker 1: something when she reposts they're so there's so many and

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Speaker 1: they're so beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, I look at a I've When I first

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Speaker 3: put it up.

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Speaker 2: I put it in a weird spot and then I

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Speaker 2: realized I want to put it in a spot I

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Speaker 2: passed constantly.

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Speaker 3: It's that like soothing to me. It's so nice. I

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Speaker 3: love it. Yeah, and thanks you guys for supporting her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Everyone you've murderingos are fucking good people. Thank you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, who's going first this week? Based on our new algorithm?

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Speaker 1: How's your how's your murder?

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Speaker 2: I don't believe in the new algorithm. Okay, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: work that way. Okay, I mean you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I went, Well, how about I went first last week? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it right, Yes.

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Speaker 2: Steven, God damn, it's one of the twenty ninth things.

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Speaker 2: You have to have twenty nine thousand things to do,

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Speaker 2: and you can't do this one.

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Speaker 3: Definitely went to check. I don't even need it notes.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, because Karen went last last time. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I went first last night? Oh last last You went

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Speaker 3: last last time?

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Speaker 2: What I mean?

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Speaker 3: You just say okay.

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Speaker 2: And we're back. Do you remember those ASMR melting lipstick videos?

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Speaker 1: I did not remember them, and tell this episode, I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, I was really into that. Why

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Speaker 1: isn't my algorithm showing me that anymore.

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Speaker 3: Is that just out it's just not hip anymore?

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Speaker 1: I think it is, but I think it's bigger on

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Speaker 1: TikTok and I'm on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe. Also I watched an electrolysis video for so.

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Speaker 3: Long the other night. Yes, oh god, that's satisfying.

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Speaker 1: I've been fed those. It's like, oh, you like gross stuff,

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Speaker 1: here's this or like plucking. Oh my god, it's so satisfying.

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Speaker 2: It's so but it's not as gross as Doctor Pimple Popper,

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Speaker 2: which is also very satisfying. But sometimes it takes it

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Speaker 2: turned totally like you see and you can't unsee it.

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Speaker 1: I've also started being fed like lash grooming videos of

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Speaker 1: people who do like lash filler and now you just

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Speaker 1: like they just video it super close up. Lash is

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Speaker 1: being calmed out, Lash is being glued. It's just like

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Speaker 1: this calm focused Lash thing. Yeah, and it's it's really

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Speaker 1: fucking satisfying. Oh and then I completely forgot about the

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Speaker 1: Boyers Motel, that documentary.

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Speaker 2: I know, which is a great documentary and then also

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Speaker 2: not real.

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Speaker 1: Totally so irritating. Yeah, what happened.

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Speaker 2: It was like they found out that the guy never

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Speaker 2: actually owned it like that he was basically kind of

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Speaker 2: a confabulator, and so part of the story of him

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Speaker 2: doing that at the motel was also a story, and

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Speaker 2: so that he was the only source of it improvable

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Speaker 2: and he didn't even own it. So the odds that

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Speaker 2: he was kind of just you know, yeah, basically lying

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Speaker 2: for fun, which it was such a hilarious that should

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Speaker 2: be a new documentary. That's amazing people who Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 2: you're going to go tell an incredibly famous writer journalist

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Speaker 2: your story that's fascinating and not ever go this might

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Speaker 2: be a bad idea.

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Speaker 1: I just met the guy who created the documentary Tickled.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, David Ferrier.

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Speaker 1: David Ferrier. I met him, and the new one he's

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Speaker 1: doing is something really interesting too. Let me try to

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Speaker 1: remember it off the top of my head.

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Speaker 3: Is it about the church?

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Speaker 1: No, it's something else now.

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Speaker 2: Because of Tickled, I'm a huge David Ferrier fan and

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Speaker 2: I followed him for years on Twitter, and then one

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Speaker 2: day I pulled up to work here and he was

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Speaker 2: standing outside the building and immediately I immediately recognized him,

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Speaker 2: and then I freaked out, and then I had to

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Speaker 2: look up to make sure I was right, and I was.

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Speaker 3: So I got out of the car and.

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Speaker 2: I was getting ready to be like, Hi, are you

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Speaker 2: waiting to go inside or whatever, And right as I

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Speaker 2: got out of the car, someone opened the door and

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Speaker 2: brought him inside.

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Speaker 3: And I never met him.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, he was at your aunt literally, or I

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Speaker 1: bet he was there for trust Me.

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Speaker 2: He was on trust Me. So go back to their

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Speaker 2: January episodes and look up David Ferrier. He basically had

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Speaker 2: a hand in kind of breaking up this mega church

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Speaker 2: that was really you have to listen to it. But

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Speaker 2: he basically kind of like started this campaign of like

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Speaker 2: taking down the person that ran this church, and it

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Speaker 2: was mostly on social media, just like asking for people

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Speaker 2: to tell him stories of first hand accounts of having

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Speaker 2: to get out of the church and stuff.

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Speaker 1: He's an agitator.

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Speaker 3: He's a real deal.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I did a show with him with for Jonahray's new

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Speaker 1: stand up show, and he is so funny and charming

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Speaker 1: and like, you know, news from New Zealand. So you

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Speaker 1: can say anything you want.

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Speaker 3: It's charming and they he can say anything he wants.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: Oh sorry, that's what you were saying. I thought you

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Speaker 2: mean you could be led to him like hey, go

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Speaker 2: fuck yourself there. He'd be like, that's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 1: No, I was too nervous to say anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's nerves. I stand by my godless recommendation because

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Speaker 2: it's Merit Weaver, who has since I think, won a

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Speaker 2: bunch of Emmys. But then it's also Michelle Dockery and

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Speaker 2: Jack O'Connell, who was the vampire in Sinners. It's like

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Speaker 2: a you gotta go see that TV show.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. I don't think I ever did it,

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Speaker 1: like one all these emmys and stuff.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a great Western story about women who

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Speaker 2: have to take over a town.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it's real good, you guys. Let's bring it

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Speaker 1: back from twenty seventeen. It's vintage now like this podcast.

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Speaker 3: So that's right, a vintage godless wreck.

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Speaker 1: Okay, should we do it. Let's do it a right.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into Karen's story about Marcel Petois.

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Speaker 2: Well, then, let me tell you a little something about

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Speaker 2: a man.

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Speaker 3: And you may have heard of him.

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Speaker 2: Uh. He's an evil doctor during World War two named

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Speaker 2: Marcel Petois.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think that's how you say his name.

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Speaker 3: That sounds beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I've watched a documentary about him. I've done a couple

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Speaker 2: of things.

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Speaker 3: I still can't remember how to pronounce his name sounds

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Speaker 3: bele p e t io t patula.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I took French for two years, so I'm

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Speaker 2: expretty much a citizen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, all right.

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Speaker 2: So Marcel Patois was born January seventh, eighteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 3: At what did you write? It's the eighth word, and

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Speaker 3: I'm stopped cold.

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Speaker 2: No, it's axair, I believe, or ozaire maybe aux e

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Speaker 2: r r e. You know what I might do for

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Speaker 2: the rest of this story is replace French words with

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Speaker 2: American ones. So he was born January seventeenth, eighteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: at Austin, France, one hundred miles south of Paris. His

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Speaker 2: neighbors allege that he enjoyed torturing animals from an early age,

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Speaker 2: and they say his first arrest.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of people say that this is stuff that.

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Speaker 2: Came up after his most famous arrest, and that it

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00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 2: was just neighbors talking and making stuff up. But it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem out of the bounds of any story we've

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Speaker 2: ever told before. His first arrest was after he made

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00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,719
Speaker 2: sexual advances toward a male classmate then fired his father's

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Speaker 2: gun inside a classroom.

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Speaker 3: He was eleven. Whoa shit, I was like, great in college.

404
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 3: That's fine. If you shoot a gun in college, it's expected.

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Speaker 3: It's like Van Wilder. Shit.

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Speaker 2: So then between nineteen oh seven nineteen oh nine, when

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Speaker 2: he was between ten and twelve years old, his parents

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Speaker 2: told doctors that he was prone to convulsions and sleepwalking,

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Speaker 2: and he habitually wet his trousers and beds.

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Speaker 1: Don't want your trousers, doc means head injury, probably right.

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Speaker 2: Head injury, and maybe that he was like a psychopath,

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00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 2: maybe from or some serious organic brainish. It's taking place.

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00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: Classic shit, so classic, let's get a swing in there.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, So they came her belching away from that. I

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Speaker 3: just don't ever want to know that. She just keeps

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Speaker 3: like you keep throwing, like kind.

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Speaker 1: Of throwing yourself back onto the couch to belch and

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Speaker 1: then coming back forward and just belching.

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Speaker 3: It's like a little hiccup, just doing a No, it

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Speaker 3: was a full that was a full on belch of good.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is a this is a real ASMR episode

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Speaker 2: in the bad way.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So his mother dies in nineteen twelve, his daughter, his

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00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 2: father takes a job fifteen miles away, he has to

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Speaker 2: stay with his aunt. Him and his brother go to

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Speaker 2: live with his aunt, and while he's between, when he's

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Speaker 2: staying with her, he gets expelled from one school, he

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Speaker 2: gets sent back with his dad. He gets expelled from

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Speaker 2: another school, all from quote over excitement end quote, unruly behavior.

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Speaker 2: So he's just he's out of his mind. And then

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Speaker 2: he finishes his education in a special academy in Paris

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Speaker 2: in July of nineteen fifteen. So then when he's a teenager,

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Speaker 2: he gets into the petty crime standard fair. He robs

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Speaker 2: a mailbox, but in court he's found not guilty because

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00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 2: of mental illness. So he said a pattern starts to

437
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: set up pretty early. Of he does fucked up shit,

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Speaker 2: he claims insanity or gives them he tells them about

439
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: stuff and they go, oh, no, he doesn't have to

440
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Speaker 2: go to jail.

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Speaker 3: He's crazy.

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Speaker 2: And then he gets out and just keeps on doing stuff,

443
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: which I think is could be a theory the psychopath

444
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: learned early that if you say I have these things,

445
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: then you never have to kind of pay for your crimes.

446
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: You just do whatever you want.

447
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: It's kind of what it seems like, so in nineteen sixteen,

448
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 2: he's drafted into the French infantry to fight in World

449
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: War One. I typed World War One Jay, So I

450
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: don't know if that was a side project. You know,

451
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: remember when World War One started and then it was

452
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: it was a through.

453
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 3: Before.

454
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: Maybe what you're doing is you try to make an

455
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: emoji have a smiley face. You know when someone does

456
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 1: that and they don't have an iPhone and it's just

457
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: a j maybe maybe it's World War smiley face.

458
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was.

459
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: World War One is like have you ever watched like

460
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 2: a movie that's like a true to life World War

461
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: One story where it's like.

462
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 3: It's the horrifying, is horrifying and horrifying.

463
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: It's like everything was up close, like bayonet style, but

464
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: then some mustard gas and they would go through.

465
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 3: It went on and on.

466
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: Everything's millions of people. It's snowing. You don't have an

467
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: you don't have fucking boots for snow. No, it's barbaros

468
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: mud filled with water and rats.

469
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: It's like they went to a mudfield and we're like,

470
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: let's settle it here.

471
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 3: And then they just kept sending people.

472
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 2: The soldiers will come out and they would have to

473
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: go to rest homes because they would have shell shock

474
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: and they would just get sent back out over and

475
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: over and over. Crazy, just a nightmare town. So picture

476
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: and everyone put yourself there.

477
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 3: Let's go there now.

478
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: In a town called Aisne, he had been gassed, he

479
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 2: was wounded, and then he exhibited signs of a mental breakdown. Now,

480
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 2: of course it would make perfect sense that he would

481
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: be doing that anyway, but he also could have been

482
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 2: trying to get out of sure going there, I would too.

483
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: He went to what they called them clinics and rest homes.

484
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 2: So he got sent to a couple where he was

485
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: arrested for stealing army blankets. Where are you going to

486
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: go with that blanket?

487
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 3: Marcel?

488
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 4: What?

489
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: Marsa? How many do you even need?

490
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't march with them. You're going to

491
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: get caught by the guy that yells okay. He's jailed

492
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: for that, and then they put him back onto the front.

493
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 2: In June of nineteen eighteen, like three weeks later, he

494
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: shoots himself in the foot. Literally, Yeah, that's what I

495
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: would have done. And that's the thing that they It

496
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: used to be that they would people would do that

497
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: or put their hand up movie. Really guy puts his

498
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: hand up and gets his hand shot off, and then

499
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: he's what is that cowardice? They court martial you for that.

500
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: Anyway he does that, he gets diagnosed with amnesia, sleepwalking, depression,

501
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: and suicidal tendencies, and he ends up getting discharged with

502
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: a forty percent disability pension. Then in September of nineteen twenty,

503
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: his case gets reviewed and they up the rating to

504
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. Oh my god, it would be very fascinating.

505
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: I want to there's so much in this story. It's crazy.

506
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: I honestly do. I say it all the time, but

507
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: I really do want to read a book about this

508
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: one because to figure.

509
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: Out or to read about was it him learning the

510
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 3: system and gaining it or was he fucking bananas? Yeah?

511
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: And did the bananas build into what his crimes that

512
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: came later?

513
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: The bananas the bananas build no whole banana tree?

514
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 3: Uh okay.

515
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: So the person that reviewed that and said he should

516
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: have one hundred percent disability also suggested that he'd be

517
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: committed to an asylum, But he had already entered a

518
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: mental hospital, not as a patient. He had gone through

519
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: an accelerated education program for war veterans and he'd gone

520
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: to in eight months he finished medical school and he

521
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: was serving a two year psychiatric internship.

522
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 3: See he's putting it on, writing the whole thing on.

523
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: He knows I couldn't do that, and I have a

524
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: fucking sound that well.

525
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: Well, because he's a I mean he's from what they say,

526
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: he was a super genius.

527
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 3: This is part. That's part. He's like a super villain

528
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 3: me too, true true.

529
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: So anyway, he so now he's like they it's like

530
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: the patients are running me a sound anyway, so fascinating.

531
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: I wish I could just see, Like all I want

532
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: is like a ten second video clip of him. I

533
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: know it does it doesn't exist, and it's impossible, but

534
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't have be cool.

535
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: Well I'll tell you this if you want to think

536
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: about him while I tell you the story. He has

537
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: kind of crazy ron Lanch hair that doesn't help many

538
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: people who are listening. Sorry, he had well you know

539
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 2: what he has kind of Stephen here, he's got he's

540
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: got hair that it looks like he throws it back

541
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: and forth in every direction across his head all the time.

542
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: Because it's like bloofy.

543
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well there's love body and some curl and he

544
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: also has a mustache.

545
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: What then, are you a time traveler?

546
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: Here's the difference, though, and we're going to keep our

547
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: eye on you, Steven. One of his eyes is way

548
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: bigger than the other. So there's a picture of him

549
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: that kept coming up when I was trying to find

550
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: like videos on YouTube, and it looks like a cartoon

551
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: of a surprised person. But that's what his face looked like.

552
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: Surprise, I'm a psychopath. Surprise, my eyes look graz though.

553
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: He Yeah, he gets his degree on December fifteenth, nineteen

554
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: twenty one from.

555
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 3: Mid Islandery. That was great, thank you. I got super

556
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: scared in the middle.

557
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 2: And then he becomes a full on doctor, full fledged

558
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: on the paper because I got and pasted it. So

559
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: so then he starts a practice in Villeneuev's syon, I mean,

560
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: and he's getting paid not by his patients who come

561
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: to see him. And then he's also still getting a

562
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: government assistance and he's on tons of drugs. So he's

563
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: one of those doctors it's like, you know, popping pills

564
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: the whole time.

565
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 3: They're all on drugs, right, I mean, what did you?

566
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

567
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: Because also you have to know how drugs work. You

568
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: have to take them a little bit.

569
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to kind of educate yourself, right, But

570
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: then also you just have them around.

571
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, freebies. It's like me with those fucking pen and

572
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: M and ms.

573
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: I can't keep my hand out of that thing anyhow,

574
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: Oh you okay. So they believe his first victim is

575
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: a woman named Louise de la Vaux, and she is

576
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: the daughter of one of his elderly patients. He starts

577
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 2: having an affair with her in nineteen twenty six, and

578
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: soon after that affair starts, their home is burglarized and

579
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: set on fire, and.

580
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: They they suspect him, Marcel Petua, and then Louise disappears

581
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 3: May nineteen twenty. Woman he's having a fair disappears, that's right, okay.

582
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 2: So it's like they're dating. It's all going off. She's like,

583
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: he might be the one. Say she was elderly, her

584
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: relative was elderly, who went It's almost like the young

585
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 2: girl brought the old grandma to the doctor. And then

586
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: he's like, well, hello, hello to you, young lady, and

587
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: hello to you.

588
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: Okay.

589
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: So the neighbors say that they saw a Petois load

590
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: a big trunk into his car, and then.

591
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: Weeks later one is fished.

592
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: Out of a river that looks very similar to the

593
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: one that they saw him loading into his car, and

594
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: when they fish it out of the river, it's filled

595
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: with dismembered, composed remains of a young woman who's never identified,

596
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: and the police, after learning all of the that soe

597
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: whole setup, decide that she's a runaway.

598
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: So no, yeah, you know those fucking nineteen twenties French runaways.

599
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: They've thrown their beret and they're fucking out of there.

600
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out of there.

601
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: You can kind of get a bag at anywhere, so

602
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: you could be on the road for as long as

603
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: you want.

604
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: It true back in the day, later days or a

605
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: wan motherfucker.

606
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 2: That's right, bring that red lipstick girl, or just throw

607
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: in your pocket and smoke. Okay, the same year. Now

608
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: it's gonna seem like I'm changing the subject to a

609
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: different podcast. He runs for mayor.

610
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: What the thing where You're like, yeah, you oops, I

611
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: was doing another paper on something else and I combined

612
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: the two.

613
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, what Wikipedia article is this that I'm

614
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: cutting and pasting Now?

615
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: No, guy is all over the place.

616
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: He's he's got a ton of energy, he's got wild

617
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: eyes because he has all the mens he needs.

618
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: See, I bet he's just taking coke pills for real,

619
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: and I have a coke pill please. I mean, here's

620
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: here's a downside.

621
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: We are actually talking about this the other night because

622
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: I was telling somebody one of my speed in the

623
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: nineties resulting in seizure stories, and I.

624
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 3: Was like, everybody thinks you do this.

625
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: You go through this thing and you're like twenties and

626
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: thirties where you're like, I could just kind of do whatever,

627
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: and then it's like your late thirties and early forties

628
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: is when you find out you absolutely can't. Like there's

629
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: going to be a bottom dropping out of this kind

630
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: of casual adderall phase that everyone goes through, which God

631
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: bless no judgment, but like, you can't do it forever,

632
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: and you got to make a plan for when you stop,

633
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: because it's bad for you, like your heart valves and shit.

634
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: Oh no, be careful.

635
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: As for someone who is on fucking permanent seizure medication,

636
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: let me just tell you from the other side of that,

637
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: it's not pretty and it hasn't happened yet. It's going

638
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: to be like the new like mesothelium ads that are

639
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: on TV.

640
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: Do you think I'm going to be like fuction anyway?

641
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: How much do you take? Have you ever had a

642
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: heart attack?

643
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: Not yet?

644
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: I do it right now. Well, let's just keep our

645
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: eye on that.

646
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, everybody's doing what they need to do,

647
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: you know what I mean these days especially so Okay,

648
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: so he's out leading the people.

649
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: All right, the mayor thing.

650
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to get back into the story. That

651
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense with what I have been telling

652
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: you about. Okay, can he lay low? No, he's a psychopath.

653
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 2: He's like, he's got it, He's got the world on

654
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: a string.

655
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: So he hires an accomplice.

656
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: The reason he won is because he hired an accomplice

657
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: to disrupt a political debate with his opponent. So he

658
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: wins like he basically fucked with his opponent.

659
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: And then one.

660
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: Then he once he's in office, embezzles from the town es.

661
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: Dude living his life. He's just you know what.

662
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: It is, I feel like and this does remind me

663
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: of being on speed. It's that thing of when you're

664
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: in the moment you're like fuck it, yes or fuck

665
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: it like you just decide to grasp it while you can.

666
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, and do all of the crazies do it all.

667
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: Just pretend like nothing's going to happen in an hour

668
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: or a day.

669
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 3: Just go for it. Okay, Okay.

670
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty seven, he marries a woman named Georgette blah.

671
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 5: Blah, Oh it's all the keys blah blah blah blah,

672
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 5: Georgette blah blahe ohete.

673
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: And they have a son named Gearhart. Sorry okay. Local

674
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: authorities received numerous complaints about his theft and shady financial

675
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: dealings as he's the mayor, and he's eventually suspended in

676
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: August of nineteen thirty one, and he and resigns the

677
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: village council also resigned in sympathy. I don't know what

678
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: a village council is, but it sounded like he had

679
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: manipulated people in the town so much and gotten them

680
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: convinced that, like, no, he's the best. That when they

681
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: were like, you can't be the mayor anymore, they were like,

682
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: we're going to oh my god.

683
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

684
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: Five weeks later, on October eighteenth, he's elected as a

685
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: councilor for the Yon District Yo Yo en any it's

686
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: like Yvonne with NOV unless something happened.

687
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 3: Unmost there wasn't. Unless it is maybe the.

688
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: V dropped off the page when I wasn't paying attention

689
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: to Yvonne France.

690
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: She wears so much perfume.

691
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty two, he's accused of stealing electric power

692
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: from the village near that's a quaint point. He's like,

693
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: looking some shit up. Yeah, He's like, what, it's just

694
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: for my RV. But he'd moved it by the time

695
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: they figured that out. They were like, you're off the council.

696
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: And he had already moved to Paris, so it didn't matter.

697
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: And while he's there, he sets up a new practice

698
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: and he makes up all these credentials and all these

699
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: people are like, oh my god, you heard this guy.

700
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: He's the new doctor in town. You can't google it

701
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: exactly right, and linked in him. It's all word of mouth.

702
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: He probably got the one lunchial person made him love him,

703
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: gave him a coke pills, that's right.

704
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: But while outwardly charming popular with most of his patients,

705
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: he secretly enrolled them for state medical assistance, thereby ensuring

706
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: that he was paid twice for each treatment, So he's

707
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: like a medicare scammer from Jump the Original.

708
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: And he favored addictive.

709
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Narcotics in his prescription, so he was giving people booked

710
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: up shit.

711
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

712
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: When one pharmacist complained of the near fatal dose that

713
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: he prescribed for a child, his reply was, what.

714
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: Difference does it make to you?

715
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: He did, isn't it better to do away with this

716
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: kid who's not doing anything in the world but pestering

717
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: its mother?

718
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: So not a lot of compassion.

719
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't feel like that's his angle or

720
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: filter online.

721
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 3: If this kid who's not doing anything, he just kind

722
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: of sick, just needs a little bit of help from

723
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: a doc. And then I did, what do kids do?

724
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess back then they worked in the

725
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: coal mines and.

726
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 2: Ship they were like, oh I'd love some speed, Yeah,

727
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, but the mother has to intervene, okay.

728
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen thirty sixties appointed the mendicin Deta

729
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: Seville with authority so he can now write death certificates.

730
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: They just keep going, you're really fucked up. Here's a

731
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 2: little bit more responsibility. Can you take over this project?

732
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 3: We just want to help you kill people a little yeah.

733
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so and that same year he's institutionalized for kleptomania.

734
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 2: Uh huh. So after the so then World War two

735
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: breaks out. Okay, all right, and you mean World War

736
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: K Jak world or one K. Roman numerals were gone

737
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: into the Roman worlds of the world wars, so France

738
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: falls and uh he's of course now he's just taking

739
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: advantage he's doing. He's giving people weird fake certificates saying

740
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: people are sick when they're not to get out of shit,

741
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: and he's like running kind of a black marketing situation.

742
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 2: Any he's convicted in nineteen forty two of over prescribing narcotics.

743
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: But he's going to go to court and there's two

744
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 2: addicts that we're going to testify against him.

745
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 3: The cops got them to.

746
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: Flip on him. They disappeared, so he would end up

747
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 2: just being fined, but they're in the addict twenty four addict.

748
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: They're in the addicts addict. Yes, so he's fine twenty

749
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: four hundred francs, and they're just like, great, please don't

750
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: do it anymore.

751
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: Oops, this guy's disappeared, so you're off the hook.

752
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he brags to anyone who listened, that he's developing

753
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: secret weapons that can kill Germans without leaving forensic evidence,

754
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 2: that he's having high level meetings with Allied commanders, that

755
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: he's fighting for this resistance group and that resistance group

756
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: all over town. He's talking telling stories about that he's

757
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: planting booby traps around Paris.

758
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 3: All this shit booby traps.

759
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: He even says that he works with a group of

760
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: anti fascist Spaniards. Turns out that group never existed, Oh

761
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: my god, nor did many of the things that he

762
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: talked about. But the thing that he stumbled upon that

763
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: made him the most money and started off, the reason

764
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: he eventually became famous, is he started his own false

765
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: escape route out of occupied France.

766
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 3: Explain that to me called fi fly talk.

767
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: So basically, the Germans invade Paris and they take over,

768
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: and then they start saying, you Jews can only live

769
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: in this area and you can only go to the Oh.

770
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: Get on the train.

771
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: So of course everyone's trying to get out of France,

772
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: and he's like, I can get you out. All you

773
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: need is twenty five thousand Francs come to my house.

774
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 3: He's one of those let's do this thing. Yeah, So.

775
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: His code name is doctor Eugene. I think he made

776
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: that up. Well that's not really like cunning, it's not

777
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: cool sounding. So all it took was if you had

778
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: the money and he's and he basically said he could

779
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: arrange safe passage to Argentina or somewhere else in South

780
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: America through Portugal. So he got people to come to

781
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: his office or his this apartment, and he told them

782
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: that the Argentinian officials needed them to be inoculated, so

783
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: that he had to give them a shot. No, and

784
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 2: then he gave them a shot that was cyanide.

785
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: Killed them, took all of.

786
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: Their belongings and their money, and disposed of their bodies.

787
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 2: And oh no they were and all the people that

788
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: heard about him and went to him in secret to

789
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 2: get out of France were never seen again. Oh no.

790
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: So at first he dumped the bodies in the sun,

791
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: but he later destroyed them by submerging them in quickline

792
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: or burning.

793
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 3: Them in this basement.

794
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: So in nineteen forty one he buys a house at

795
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: twenty one Rue Lesseur, and what he fails to do

796
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: is again keep a low profile. So the Gestapo finds

797
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: out that there's this dude, doctor Eugene, that's getting Jews

798
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 2: and resistance fighters and all these people. Whoever has twenty

799
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars out of France Franks, So they send

800
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: like a spy named Robert Dodkin. Oh sorry, an agent,

801
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: a Gestapo agent named Robert Jodkin makes for a prisoner

802
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: named Ivon. Dreyfuss says, you have to go be a spy.

803
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 2: Go contact this guy. Say you're trying to get out

804
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: of Germany. He disappears. Oh no, so then now the

805
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: Nazis are are onto him.

806
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: So then okay. So on March sixth.

807
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: Nineteen forty four, this is get a good part because

808
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: this is fucking crazy. And this is where I stumbled

809
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: upon a doctor documentary about this, and this is where

810
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: the documentary starts, and it was amazing.

811
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 3: I watched like a third of it.

812
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: It was incredible. I thought I hit record. I had

813
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: to go leave to do something else, came back, didn't

814
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: record it. Can't find it, can't find it on you,

815
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: I can't find it anywhere, of course, but it started here,

816
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: and the way they told it was so good that

817
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: I was like, this is the best story. So March

818
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 2: six nineteen forty four, there's smoke coming from the chimney,

819
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: the chimney of that house, and it smells so bad

820
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: and it's burning and burning and burning. So the neighbors

821
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: complain and five days later they a group go to

822
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: the police and they're just like, someone's got to do

823
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: something about the smell coming out of his house and

824
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: the smoke coming out of this house. So when they

825
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 2: all go down to the front door on March eleventh,

826
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: they find a note on the door that says I'll

827
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: be back in a month. So they find out that

828
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 2: he also lives in that other house. He has two houses,

829
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: so the police call that house. It's two miles away.

830
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: They call that house and the pittois answers the phone

831
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: and says, have you gone inside yet? And the police

832
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: are like no, and he goes, okay, don't do anything.

833
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: I'll be there in fifteen minutes, and they're like okay,

834
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 2: And then he never shows up. So half an hour later,

835
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: it's now fully engulfed fire and they have to call

836
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 2: the fire department so that the other buildings nearby don't

837
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: burn down. And when the fire department breaks into the

838
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: second story window, they come upon a scene that's just

839
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: bodies and body parts everywhere they look. So then Pittois

840
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 2: arrives and when the police are like, what the fuck

841
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: is going on in your house, he's like, I'm a

842
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: member of the French resistance and I've been luring Germans

843
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 2: and Nazis to that.

844
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: Apartment and killing them.

845
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 2: And of course everyone, all the French people were like, great,

846
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: this is perfect, Yeah, don't worry about this, And so

847
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: they didn't arrest him because everyone was like, well, he's

848
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: part of the resistance, let's keep it up, yeah, or.

849
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: Talk about it.

850
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: But then they search the garage and that's when they

851
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,439
Speaker 2: find a pit filled with quicklime with human remains still

852
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 2: in it. Then on the staircase there's a canvas sack

853
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: with human remains inside and enough body parts for at

854
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 2: least ten complete bodies ten And then the basement had

855
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: sinks that were large enough for draining corpses of their blood.

856
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 2: And there's a soundproof octagonal chamber with wall mounted shackles

857
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 2: and a people in the center of the door.

858
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what's great. Yeah, so they're not.

859
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: This isn't just like trick a spy and to come

860
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: into your basement and kill them. There's something else going on,

861
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: and so, but they don't know if he truly is

862
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: a member of the resistance or if he's a German

863
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: like being like a double agent or whatever. And so

864
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: as the the a veteran Paris police commissioner Georges Victor Marseu,

865
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stop doing that. I'm sorry, he runs the investigation.

866
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: And while he's they're investigating this crime scene, it's one

867
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning, they get a telegram from police

868
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: Paris police headquarters from the Germans that the occupying I

869
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: mean that they keep saying Germans in this murder Pedia.

870
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: There's like, you know, seven articles on murder Pedia. They

871
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 2: keep saying Germans. But I think Germans and occupied France

872
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: were Nazis. I don't right, that's saying I would think,

873
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 2: so let me know when I'm wrong America.

874
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: So they get a.

875
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 2: Telegram from the Nazis saying, quote order from German authorities

876
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: arrests Petois dangerous lunatic.

877
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: So then they're like, okay, he's not a German. Yeah.

878
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: So in his other apartment they find it abandoned, but

879
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: they find large amounts of chloroform, digitalis and other poisons,

880
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: in addition to large amounts of unusual medical remedies. So

881
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: they find a man who had gone to him to

882
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: Patois to escape but had ended up changing his mind,

883
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: and he said Patois had offered him passage to South

884
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: America for twenty five thousand dollars. So then while they're

885
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: going through that basement with all the body parts, they

886
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: find the remains of the two drug addicts that we're

887
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: going to testify against him in that narcotics case. And

888
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 2: now they know there's it's the proof that those witnesses

889
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 2: were murdered and that this guy was not being a

890
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: noble Frenchman that was trying to cite their assistance. Then

891
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: they get his brother, Maurice, and Maurice immediately cracks and

892
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 2: is like, yep, we delivered quick climb to this apartment.

893
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 3: We also.

894
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: His wife, Georgette was arrested on suspicion of aiding him,

895
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 2: and his accomplices Nesodetch and Albert and Simon Neuhausen confess

896
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: that they helped remove up to forty suitcases from the house.

897
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: Why does anyone need forty suitcases is what they should

898
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: have asked.

899
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: If you have fifty bodies, you're gonna need at least

900
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: forty suitcases. So then the investigation comes to a halt

901
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: because the invasion of Normandy happens. So everyone's like, sorry

902
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: about this insane, like multiple murderer, We've got to go.

903
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 2: So for seven months, Patois hides with his friends.

904
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: He grows a beard, changes.

905
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: His appearance, he has all these different aliases.

906
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: Friends.

907
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, but he told the friends that he

908
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: was fighting for the Front Resistance I believe. Yeah, so

909
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: they were like, yeah, hide him here, and you know,

910
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: it was that whole story. The Paris police rose up

911
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: against and the and the citizens and the resistant rose

912
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: up against the German troops in Paris and Nazis occupying France.

913
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: That's when Petois changes his name to Anri Valerie and

914
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 2: he joins the French forces of the Interior, becomes a

915
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: captain in charge of counter espionage and prisoner interrogations, and

916
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: basically is in the mix with the resistance for real.

917
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. So then somewhere in that time, his defense.

918
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: Lawyer for that narcotics trial that he got off on

919
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: gets that lawyer gets a letter from Petois saying that

920
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: there was an article in a newspaper called Resistance that

921
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: was all about Patois and what he.

922
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 3: Did, and he so he took the time to send.

923
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: His lawyer, his old lawyer, a letter saying, look, that

924
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: article is all lies. So now the police know he's

925
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: still in France. So there's a man hunt across France

926
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: to find him, or across Paris, i should say. But

927
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: he ends up participating in the manhunt for himself as

928
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: Entre Valerie.

929
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 3: Oh my god, which is fucking rade.

930
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: Okay, so's he's recognized finally at the Paris metro station

931
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: on October thirty first, and he's arrested. Among his possessions

932
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: were a pistol he had over thirty thousand francs on him,

933
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: and fifty sets of identity documents, which were a lot

934
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 2: of them probably victims obviously suitcasicity. It was like those

935
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: families at Lax are just stacking them up, like where

936
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: are you going and what are you fucking bringing?

937
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: You're a bad packer.

938
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: You can buy anything anywhere. There's a CVS on the

939
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: remotest island. What are you doing? Yes, okay, he's put

940
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: on death row. He says he's innocent, and then he's

941
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 2: a great fighter for the resistance, and he also says

942
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: that he found the pile of bodies at that apartment

943
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: in February of nineteen forty four. He assumed that they

944
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: were all collaborators that the members of his network had killed.

945
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: So he was just like, well, there's leave him there then, Yeah,

946
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 3: that's only right, that's not my problem.

947
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: Well, the police look into all his stories about his

948
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: time with the resistance and all the freedom fighting that

949
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: he did, found out he had no friends in any

950
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: of the major resistance groups. There was no proof of

951
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: any of the exploits that he claimed, like booby trapping

952
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: all of Paris.

953
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 3: And.

954
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: Most of the groups that he named never existed in

955
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: the first place. So the anti fascist Spaniards he was

956
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: talking about all made up. So they eventually charged him

957
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:39,919
Speaker 2: with twenty seven murders for profit, and he basically took

958
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: these people for an estimated two hundred million francs. So

959
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 2: he goes on trial March nineteenth, nineteen forty six. He's

960
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: facing one hundred and thirty five criminal charges altogether, and

961
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 2: his lawyer, Rene.

962
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: I'm trying to bug myself, is.

963
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,479
Speaker 2: Up against a prosecution team that's the state prosecut plus

964
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: twelve civil lawyers, all hired by the relatives of.

965
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 3: The victims that are just like, go fucking get.

966
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: Him, and he he basically tried to stay in court

967
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: that the victims were collaborators or double agents, like they

968
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 2: deserve to die, or that they were living in South

969
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 2: America under new names, and that they're all fools whatever.

970
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: He did admit to killing nineteen of the twenty seven

971
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 2: victims in his house, but he claimed they were Germans

972
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: and collaborators. His lawyer attempted to make him look like

973
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: a resistance hero, but nobody, the judge, the jury, nobody

974
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: bought it. He's so he ended up being convicted of

975
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 2: twenty six council murders, sentenced to death, and on May

976
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 2: twenty fifth, after a stay of a few days because

977
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: there was a problem with the mechanism in the guillotine,

978
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: he was beheaded. Oh my god, that's our guy, Marcel Petois.

979
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: I want to see a photo of him. Wow.

980
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: That was great.

981
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 3: Thank you me, Kim.

982
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,959
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back, Karen. Any updates.

983
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: We don't have any updates, but we did get a

984
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 2: really interesting email in twenty nineteen. The subject line of

985
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: the email was episode ninety eight info about Marcel Petois,

986
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: German versus Nazi and thank you, okay, And it says

987
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: Karen Georgia and Livestock. This is a little bit long,

988
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: but it's kind of worth it. It says, I'm writing

989
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: about episode ninety eight, in which Karen covered French doctor

990
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: and serial killer Marcel Patois. In preparing for a family

991
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: trip to Paris. In twenty seventeen, I became an avid

992
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: researcher of the best places to visit. For a history

993
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: and architecture lover like myself, I came across a book

994
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: in my local library called Death in the City of Light,

995
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: the serial killer of Nazi occupied Paris. What a dark,

996
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: twisted tale and man. The book provided location maps in Paris,

997
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: including the house that neighbors were burning, which led to

998
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 2: Petois being found out and arrested. The book also covers

999
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: his meetings with specific victims and how he manipulated them

1000
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 2: to come to his home in the first place. It

1001
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: also covers the trial of Petois, which was one of

1002
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 2: the most frustrating reads I've ever had to get through.

1003
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 2: He was absolutely nuts and tried to dominate the courtroom throughout.

1004
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: Though through his own words and statements one sees what

1005
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: a controller and a lunatic he actually was in its day.

1006
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: The trial was very much like paparazzi frenzied trials of

1007
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: notorious or famous people. For today, it was a gawker's

1008
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: paradise and he was at the center of all of it,

1009
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: enjoying the limelight. Karen mentioned a documentary about the case,

1010
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: but that she had never been able to find it,

1011
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 2: so I wanted to share the book title for anyone

1012
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: who wants to know more. And as an aside, there

1013
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: was a question raised in this episode about whether it

1014
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: was correct to say France was occupied by Germany or Nazis.

1015
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,959
Speaker 2: The German state was Nazi led during World War Two,

1016
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: it would be correct to say German occupied, as Germany

1017
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: was led and represented by the Nazi Party, which carried

1018
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: out the horrific Nazi agenda we all know today. Sad

1019
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: for the German people, but there is a huge cautionary

1020
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 2: tale for the world about extremism, gullibility and nationalism that

1021
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 2: we shouldn't water down.

1022
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

1023
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: And then they say this is not a correction of

1024
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 2: what Karen said, just in a reminder that the people

1025
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: of a country, no matter if they agree with the

1026
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: controlling party in their government or not, share the responsibility

1027
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 2: for what their leaders do. We are experiencing that in

1028
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: this country right now. This is from twenty nineteen.

1029
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

1030
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 3: We're experiencing that in this country right now with the

1031
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 3: immigrant camps being set up to house women and children

1032
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: trying to come to America. These are American immigrant camps,

1033
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: and as such, we are all responsible for what is

1034
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 3: happening in those places in our name at the hands

1035
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 3: of our current leaders. No less was true for the

1036
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: German state during World War Two. Thank you guys for

1037
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 3: doing your thing. Really enjoy it.

1038
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: Wow, I get that's from twenty nineteen.

1039
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: I mean, what a nightmare.

1040
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: You know, there's now a children's detention center in Texas

1041
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 2: just for immigrant children by themselves. A nightmare idea. And

1042
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 2: there's been a bunch of people that have like dedicated

1043
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 2: you know, their time and their voices to like trying

1044
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: to get it shut down. But it's like this, this

1045
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: government that we are living under, people, this is what

1046
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: fascism is.

1047
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: It's such a good point of like, yeah, you know,

1048
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: I would have been like, well, it's not too occupied,

1049
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's German occupied. And this is why you

1050
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: have to vote, is because whatever represents us represents the entirety.

1051
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: That's right. You can't just do the Red States.

1052
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: This is like everybody has to let go of those

1053
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: old Chevy commercials that used to make us feel so

1054
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 2: good in the summertime because this is not baseball, hotdogs,

1055
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 2: apple pie, and Chevrolet anymore. This shit is ugly and

1056
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: it's bad, and it's getting worse by the day.

1057
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: It's evil. It's evil.

1058
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:49,479
Speaker 3: It's so bad.

1059
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: Well, that's what this podcast is for. That's what we're

1060
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: here for.

1061
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 3: That's what the rewind is here for.

1062
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 2: Because we've been since this fucking podcast started, We've been

1063
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 2: talking about this.

1064
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: It's crazy.

1065
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well all right, it's time to get into Georgia's

1066
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 2: story right now.

1067
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: It's true crime.

1068
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: What choice?

1069
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 3: Where do you want to look? Right now?

1070
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: You quick play on a podcast called My Favorite Murder.

1071
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're in it for the long haul. This

1072
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 2: is Georgia's story about the murder of Peggy het Trick.

1073
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: Over back from a little break And when I was peeing,

1074
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: I looked it up and the instagram with the melting

1075
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: lovestick is called watch It Melt Sweet Check.

1076
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 3: That's like the whole account.

1077
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: Uh huh, yes, yeah, it's pretty great. Okay, So we

1078
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: talked about this recently. This is the story of the

1079
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: murder of Peggy Hettrick, remember her, let's you will, okay.

1080
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: In the morning of February eleventh, nineteen eighty seven, a

1081
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: bicyclist is investigates what he thinks as a mannequin laying

1082
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 1: the field in Fort Collins, Colorado. What it actually is

1083
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: is the bob of thirty seven year old Peggy Hettrick.

1084
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: And she said her purse is still slung around her shoulder,

1085
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: belongings are inside. There's a half smoked cigarette and a

1086
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: pool of blood nearby. There's a trail of blood one

1087
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: hundred feet from her body to the small pool on

1088
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: the curb. Her braw blouse and black coat had been

1089
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: pushed up above her breasts, and her underwear and jeans

1090
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: are pulled down to her knees.

1091
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: I remember you know this conversation now, yes, yes, yes, wow, okay.

1092
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. At the scene, investigators collect two hairs they're not

1093
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: her hair, and thirteen fingerprints from her person aren't hers,

1094
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: and they they also.

1095
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,439
Speaker 3: Okay, so they theorized that Peggy's killer.

1096
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: They think that they stabbed her as she was walking

1097
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: along the road right by where next to the field,

1098
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, because she had been killed with one stab

1099
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: wound and then picked her up and perhaps by the

1100
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: wrists and dragged her into the field.

1101
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 3: That's what they think happened.

1102
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: They also there was also twenty eight footprints going around

1103
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: and they poured. They took photos of all of them,

1104
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: but they only plastered eight of them. So according to

1105
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: the corner, she died from a single stab wound in

1106
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: the upper left back. Wasn't that crazy, Like one stab wound,

1107
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: she like died pretty quickly from it. Yeah, It's almost

1108
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: like he knew where to stab you someone to kill them.

1109
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: She likely died early in the morning. Her body had

1110
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: been sexually mutilated.

1111
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 3: Here we go.

1112
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: There's a precise, a precise removal of her nipple and areola,

1113
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 1: as well as a female circumcision, including what one doctor

1114
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: described as a partial volvectomy. Oh no, yeah, a procedure

1115
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: that requires high skill and quality surgical equipment to perform.

1116
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: So the knife she was stabbed with is not the

1117
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: same tool that was used to sexually mutilate her. Jesus Christ,

1118
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: I know, God, I feel like I'm numb to this

1119
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: shit now A little bit.

1120
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: Well, it seems to happen a lot. Yeah, I mean

1121
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 2: it's not. I think that's part of it. It happens

1122
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 2: all the time, and people pretend like it's some kind

1123
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: of distant, creepy crazy thing, and it's like no, pretty

1124
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: much happens.

1125
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 3: All the time, all the time. Yeah's horrifying.

1126
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's neat cuts. It's all like that. Blah blah. Okay,

1127
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Peggy. She's a small woman, about

1128
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen pounds, flaming red hair, really pretty woman.

1129
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: She worked at a department store and described by friends

1130
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: as fun, loving, artistic. She was kind of an Annie

1131
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: Hall type, and she was working on her a novel

1132
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: in her free time about diamond smugglers.

1133
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 3: So it's fiction. Sounds fucking fun. I wish I could

1134
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 3: read that.

1135
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: So after leaving work at around nine pm the night

1136
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: before February tenth, nineteen eighty seven, she is locked out

1137
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: of her apartment because her friend who she is letting

1138
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: stay there, fell the fuck asleep and she couldn't wake

1139
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: her up, and so she goes to a couple local

1140
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: bars and she by about twelve thirty she's at the

1141
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Pub and grill, and she runs into her

1142
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: sometimes boyfriend, Matt Zohner. He's a local color salesman. He's

1143
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: there with another woman, but they hug and kiss and talk.

1144
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: He offers her a ride home, but she ends up

1145
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: leaving by herself at one point fifteen in the morning.

1146
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: So six hours and less than five hundred yards later,

1147
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: her body is found.

1148
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 3: Wow.

1149
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, So then the investigators are canvassing the area.

1150
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 3: There's some houses nearby, there's some trailers.

1151
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: They're talking to people saying if they saw anything, especially

1152
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: the people whose windows face the field, and they they

1153
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: talk to the father of a fifteen year old high

1154
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: school student named Timothy Masters because he and the father

1155
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: says that he watched his son leave for school that

1156
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 1: morning and deviate from his usual path across the field

1157
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: and stop at something and then keep.

1158
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: Walking to his normal his normal root.

1159
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: So they live in a mobile home about one hundred

1160
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: feet from where Peggy's body had been found. So tim

1161
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: Timothy's pulled out a class and the lieutenant Jim Roderick,

1162
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: he's running the show. He's like in charge of the investigation.

1163
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: They interrogate fifteen year old Timmy the for ten hours.

1164
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: He's alone. He said that the reason he didn't call

1165
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 3: the police.

1166
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: He had seen the body that morning, but he thought

1167
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: it was a mannequin, he thought, And then later he

1168
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: was like, that was weird. There's something wrong with someone

1169
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: playing a prank on me. Like he didn't get it. Yeah,

1170
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, it was just fifteen fifteen, can you And

1171
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: it's like that's the thing of like your brain doesn't

1172
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: want it to be a mannequin.

1173
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 3: So like, or to be a body. So But throughout

1174
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 3: the day.

1175
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: It seems like he was kind of figuring out what

1176
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:49,479
Speaker 1: was going on in his mind.

1177
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 2: And if you came upon a dead body of a

1178
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 2: mutilated not just a stabbed woman, but like a terribly

1179
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 2: mutilated woman, I think that would put you into what

1180
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 2: kind of trauma state?

1181
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, shock mode?

1182
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, where you would And also this wasn't the time

1183
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 2: of cell phone, since it was a while ago. Yeah,

1184
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: so he would have to keep walking to school to

1185
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 2: tell anybody. Yeah, and then maybe by the time he

1186
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 2: got there, he was like, couldn't deal with Like, I couldn't.

1187
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: Talk about it.

1188
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: And I saw a photo of the crime scene. She

1189
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: kind of does look like a mannequin, Like she's so pale,

1190
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: her red hair. You know, it's just like and the guy,

1191
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, the adults who ended up calling the police.

1192
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: The bicyclist thought it was a mannequin too, and he's

1193
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: an adult, so you know, it's not out of the

1194
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: romal possibility. But he says he's innocent as fuck. They

1195
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 1: administer a lie detector test.

1196
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 3: The results were inconclusive, of course, but he is on

1197
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 3: the top of the suspect list because he just because

1198
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: he didn't tell police about the body, right, So they

1199
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 3: search his home.

1200
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 1: They searched the sinks for blood, they searched the school locker,

1201
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: they search the his clothes, the sleeper's blood and anything.

1202
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: And instead they fine and confiscate twenty two hundred pages

1203
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: of writing and violent art work.

1204
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: That Timothy had in his bedroom that he saved. He

1205
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 3: was kind of like a metipiculous saver and saved all

1206
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 3: of his journals and shit. And they let's see in

1207
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 3: his bedroom, backpack in school locker, and he has a

1208
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 3: knife collection and pornography and this is the eighties and

1209
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: that's not okay. Yeah, so there's no trace of Peggy's

1210
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 3: blooder hair at all anywhere, including on his clothes and

1211
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 3: the knife collection.

1212
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: But police are convinced it's him and these drawings. I'm

1213
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 1: sure you've seen them. They're like fifteen year old metal

1214
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: head nineteen eighty seven boy drawings, and they're fucked.

1215
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 3: Up for sure. Yes, they're definitely fucked up.

1216
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I've seen like there's a some kind of a

1217
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: twenty twenty type of thing. Yeah, you show you all

1218
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: of them, But it's also that thing where so is

1219
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 2: like metal art. Yes, fucked up was like Eddie from

1220
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 2: the Iron Maiden album covers. It's one of the scary

1221
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: I remember seeing that album cover for the first time

1222
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 2: at the.

1223
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 3: Record store and shitting a brick.

1224
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: It was like it's a skeleton with long white haired

1225
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: It's like long fingernails coming at you.

1226
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 3: It was part of that part of it.

1227
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 2: Yes, you're supposed to be like it's fucked up and scary,

1228
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm brave.

1229
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: And he's just like, you know, he's like this kind

1230
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: of loner, skinny kid, like long messy hair, not a

1231
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: lot of friends. His mom had died four years earlier,

1232
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: lived in a trailer with his dad, so he sounded

1233
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: like he was kind of a drifter cut type of kid.

1234
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 2: Probably got bullied and beaten, had getting the shit beaten

1235
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 2: out of him constantly.

1236
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: Right, So this shit he was drying, you know, skeletons

1237
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: with knives and like and a lot of like shit

1238
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: against women too, Like it's not pretty for sure.

1239
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would just be interesting if they like searched

1240
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: all the lockers and pulled out art. It's all the

1241
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 2: boy art, right finding it's there's not a draw me

1242
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: like one of your French lady's situation happening in high school. Yeah,

1243
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 2: when you're your most like fucked up and unhappy and

1244
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: uncomfortable totally.

1245
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, So acquaintance of Peggy said that she

1246
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: uh that Peggy had recently been concerned over someone she

1247
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: had been dating. They ruled out her ex, her sometimes

1248
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: boyfriend that she had seen the night before because a

1249
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: woman said that, you know, she had gone home with him.

1250
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: But this dude, Broderick, Jim Broderick, the fucking lieutenant, is

1251
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: laser focus on. He is like convinced, even though there's

1252
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: a lot of other investigators that are like, well, we don't,

1253
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: they don't think it's him, but he is like doesn't

1254
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: really look into anyone else, so Timothy masters, but they

1255
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: don't have enough to arrest him, so he grows up,

1256
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: he joins the Navy, sales around the world, becomes an

1257
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: aircraft mechanic. He never has any discipline or problems or

1258
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: violent offenses. He's honorably discharged from the Navy. Okay, then

1259
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: the fast forward to nineteen eighty six. This detective Jim

1260
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: Broderick asks a forensic psychologist in San Diego named Read

1261
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: Maloy to study Timothy Master's you know, fifteen year old

1262
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: fucked up artwork. Yeah, and he'd kind of had a

1263
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: weird reputation. This guy, Read Malloy, he is an expert

1264
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: witness on sexual homicides. He thinks that you can read

1265
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: a person's personality into this artwork, which is kind of

1266
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: debated in the field. And he even disclosed that he

1267
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: was himself had sexually sadistic fantasies.

1268
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 3: Oh oh, so this guy's problematic hold on a second, Yeah,

1269
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 3: that's that's not good.

1270
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: No, Well, but maybe he was saying that like it's

1271
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,320
Speaker 2: human that kind of goes against what his thing is

1272
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 2: because it's like, well, basically are you is the argument

1273
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 2: that everybody has them? Or like it's self expression, because

1274
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 2: then you can't like focus in and be like this.

1275
01:04:54,400 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 3: That's like he wouldn't understand it unless you had it too. Yes, yeah,

1276
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 3: but also it's art.

1277
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 2: Self expression is you know, that's what art is for, right,

1278
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 2: and you really need to especially when you don't.

1279
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 3: Think anyone else is going to see it.

1280
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 2: Yes, it's private and you're like, you're trying to work

1281
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:13,919
Speaker 2: some shit out.

1282
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I don't know anyway. Fuck man, No, it's

1283
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: sucked up.

1284
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 3: Okay.

1285
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: So this dude, read Malloy, analyzes the writing and artwork

1286
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: extensively and concludes without ever having spoken to him to

1287
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: Timothy and Master says that he that some of the

1288
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: drawings represented Masters reliving the crime. So he was like,

1289
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: see this drawing where it looks kind of like they're

1290
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: dragging a body, that's him reliving the crime. And then

1291
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: there's this one there's like it's this weird triangle with

1292
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: a stab wound in it, and it looks it looks

1293
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: like a stab wound for sure, but this dude is like, oh,

1294
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: it's a vagina and he's cutting into it and it

1295
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: matches perfectly with the actual crime of Peggy's vagina getting mutilated.

1296
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 2: So they think that he went to school, then went

1297
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 2: home and immediately started scribbling in tons and tons of notebooks.

1298
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,479
Speaker 3: No, they think some of the drawings are from after

1299
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 3: the murder, before they got the notebooks, but most of

1300
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 3: them are before.

1301
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: But these ones, like the fantasy right, okay, right, so

1302
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: the strangle one was from before, but this other one

1303
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: was from after.

1304
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense, okay. And it's funny too, because I.

1305
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: Watched I watched the Cold Case episode about this and

1306
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: it's before.

1307
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 3: So this dude is like, it's totally him, He's the killer.

1308
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 1: And in August nineteen, Andy Age, based on this Jim

1309
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: Brodder goes to California and arrests twenty seven year old

1310
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: Jim Masters for the murder murder of Peggy Hettrick based

1311
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: solely on this evidence and circumstantial evidence. And twelve years later, yeah,

1312
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: Jesus can over a thousand pages of Timothy Master's violent

1313
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: artwork or admitted to evidence, including the vagina drawing, and

1314
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 1: so so at the end of the.

1315
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 3: Trial they held up like a close up photo of Peggy's.

1316
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 1: Wounds on her vagina next to a blown up photo

1317
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 1: of this triangle drawing and said it's chilling. They're the

1318
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 1: same thing, and even the like, it's just so creepy

1319
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: and then they also show it's the thing of like

1320
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: I think in some cases, I mean, I've heard about

1321
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: you can't show that many horrifying photos.

1322
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 3: Of the body at the trial because it brings an

1323
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: emotional response to the jury.

1324
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: So instead of you know, thinking about the facts, or

1325
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: they're seeing these photos and you know, so they had

1326
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: like photo after a photo of what happened are so.

1327
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: Then they're just like they it doesn't matter if it's

1328
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: him or not. They just want this right, well, they

1329
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 2: want to get this like solved and out.

1330
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: Of their right or it's almost like and I think

1331
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 1: this happened too where it was like some people think

1332
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: where it was like.

1333
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 3: They weren't sure he did it, but they saw this stuff.

1334
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: Over and over again and they were like, well, what

1335
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: if it is and we we know what happened, we

1336
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: can't let them go right. So so those sum jurors

1337
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: had doubts about his guilt. His drawings and writings were

1338
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 1: cited by the jury members as compelling evidence against him,

1339
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: and he is he has found guilty and sentenced to

1340
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: life in prison.

1341
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 3: Okay, blah blah blah blah blah.

1342
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: In two thousand and four cuts two thousand and four

1343
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 1: that's ninety nine. Two thousand and four, Timothy Masters mounts

1344
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 1: an appeal on the grounds of ineffection and effective council

1345
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: and that he gets a new defense team. They begin

1346
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: investigating case, and they discover that evidence, including the hair

1347
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: that was found on het Trick that wasn't his, that

1348
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: wasn't Timothy's hair, and photographs of the fingerprints found in

1349
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 1: her purse were all missing and they had never been

1350
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: turned over to the defense or no, no, they're missing now.

1351
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 3: Yes. So during the two thousand.

1352
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: And blah blah blah blah, so they allege the prosecutors

1353
01:08:55,680 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: withheld evidence about links to another case that happened in

1354
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 1: the Fort Collins area about doctor Richard Hammond, who was

1355
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: a potentially a suspect. Let's fucking talk about doctor Richard Hammond,

1356
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: Everyone's favorite. So and let's go back to nineteen ninety five,

1357
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,879
Speaker 1: seven years after the murder of Peggy. Doctor Richard Hammond

1358
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: is an ise surgeon in the Fort Collins area. He's

1359
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 1: arrested for secretly filming women's genitalia I copied and paste

1360
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: that obviously including his patients, and in his own home

1361
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 1: through fake ventilation grates in his downstairs bathroom, so he

1362
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 1: put fucking video in the toilet, and they said video

1363
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 1: after video, there were these highly calibrated shots zooming into

1364
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: the vaginal area of women in his toilet. They were

1365
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: extreme close ups and they were almost microscopic. Investigators also

1366
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: found that Hammond kept thousands of dollars worth of pornography

1367
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: hidden in a locked office and a storage shed in town,

1368
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: indicating an obsession with female genitalia. He also had a

1369
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: secret bank account, secret apartment, and a secret identity, and

1370
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: as a surgeon, he of course had the skills and

1371
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: equipment to perform the precision mutilation that was found on

1372
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: her body, so it was it could have been a

1373
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: exact o knife or a razor blade. And in nineteen

1374
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: eighty seven, Hammond's bedroom window overlooked the location of where

1375
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: Peggy Hettrick's body was discovered, and he was home the

1376
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: morning after the murder, despite his usually scheduled surgeries on

1377
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: that day of the week, So that was out a

1378
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: character for him then, but no follow up investigation was

1379
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,960
Speaker 1: ever done after that because he committed suicide several days

1380
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: after his arrests and Jim Broderick didn't look into it,

1381
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: didn't look at a connection. Maybe you know he maybe

1382
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: Peggy had been a client or a patient of his,

1383
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 1: who knows. And another weird twist, two weeks after Peggy's murder,

1384
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:55,679
Speaker 1: a woman who was red haired and kind of looked

1385
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: like Peggy who worked at the Prime Minister bar where

1386
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: Peggy had last been seen. She's out front of the

1387
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: bar selling tickets and here's someone behind her and a

1388
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: man with quote a bodybuilder for Seke was glaring at her.

1389
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: He pulled an icicle from behind his back and made

1390
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: several stabbing motions in the air. What and she said

1391
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 1: he had a bodybuilder physique. Doctor Hammond was a bodybuilder.

1392
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 3: Sorry, he an icicle from where I don't know, I

1393
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 3: guess the roof Jesus, I know.

1394
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was argued that it couldn't actually have

1395
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: been done the mutilation because it was so precise in

1396
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: the middle of a field in the dark like that,

1397
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: So it actually maybe happen somewhere else.

1398
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 3: And then there was no way a fifteen year old

1399
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 3: could perform that surgical procedure.

1400
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: Okay, you'd think that that would be even though you're

1401
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 2: saying that the lead detective was like on you know

1402
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:49,719
Speaker 2: only which I know that happens.

1403
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 3: But there's those kinds of things where it's still like

1404
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 3: a logic problem. Yeah, a lot of it.

1405
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 2: Yes, this is a person that's like doing violent art

1406
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: and doing upsettingly violent art where there's an there's clearly

1407
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 2: a problem that has not been addressed in any way.

1408
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 2: But then you're just adding all this like fifteen is

1409
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 2: like he can't drive yet, and he's the skinny little kid.

1410
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 2: He like, carrying a person's body on his own isn't

1411
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. There's no blood evidence anywhere on him.

1412
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 2: It's like the circumstantial evidence does not stand up to

1413
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 2: the fucking evidence that it's not him except for and

1414
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 2: again it's what you're saying is the effect of like

1415
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,839
Speaker 2: pictures on people and what you can read into pictures

1416
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,759
Speaker 2: and what pictures make you feel, and how the power

1417
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 2: of that and then attributing what that power is and saying,

1418
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 2: I know what you meant when you drew this.

1419
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: It makes sense in your head. Well, so I watched

1420
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: the Cold Case Files episode, so his case is going

1421
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,759
Speaker 1: to get overturned, but before they make the Cold Case episode,

1422
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: as if when he gets sent to jail he did it.

1423
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: The end period, Cold Case over so the cold case

1424
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: isn't up to date. You don't mean cold case.

1425
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: The TV shows are blonde actress Cold Case Files. Okay, okay, sorry,

1426
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: I wasn't to know.

1427
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. And I'm like, I based

1428
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: this all off of Cold Case Files, Cold Case. So

1429
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: they're so they actually the prosecutors are interviewed in this

1430
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: because they're like, yeah, look what we did.

1431
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 3: We solved it.

1432
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: And and the one woman who is the prosecutor was like,

1433
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: I saw the drawings and I thought I got it.

1434
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I got a chill and I

1435
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: knew he did it. It's that ship yes of being

1436
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 1: able to watch that from a place of knowing he

1437
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 1: did it is fucking creepy because it's like it's totally

1438
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 1: in her gut.

1439
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 2: She thinks he did it based on those looking at

1440
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 2: those photos, based on surface things. And that's which is

1441
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 2: how so much crime gets prosecuted or ignored, because then

1442
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 2: if you're also a clean cut, rich guy, then you're not.

1443
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 3: You're not. It's not considered total.

1444
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 2: That's beyond the imagination because we all know who looks right,

1445
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 2: and we know who's responsible for things in societ and

1446
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 2: then who's who does bad things, and that's you needed

1447
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 2: to keep it that simple, yea, to not freak out

1448
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 2: every day.

1449
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 1: This is bad, this is good in your little world

1450
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: that makes total sense, and that's not like that.

1451
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 3: Nuance is a man.

1452
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 2: If anything else, if nothing else, I mean, let this

1453
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 2: podcast be the place where we say psychopaths are real

1454
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,639
Speaker 2: good at dressing up like the good guy.

1455
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 3: That's the whole idea.

1456
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and path you're not going to see crazy on

1457
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: the surface and someone who's really fucking good at it

1458
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: and smart shit. Okay, but but so oh and also,

1459
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: her body appeared really clean, and an expert later told

1460
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: the legal team that a spongeline appeared to run down

1461
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: the side of her body like she had been sponged off.

1462
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 3: Oh, because there's like no blood on her body, even

1463
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,480
Speaker 3: though she'd been stabbed in the back and with that stub.

1464
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 1: I think there was blood on her, you know, in

1465
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: the back, but no blood on the front of her body.

1466
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 3: No blood on our genitals. Yeah wow, So well then

1467
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 3: it would have had to have been cleaned up.

1468
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they say that her body must have been washed.

1469
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 1: And they also tried to drag a woman the same

1470
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 1: size as Peggy threw the field, and it just can't

1471
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 1: be done with one person the size of Timothy, the.

1472
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 3: Size of a freshman in high school or sophomore.

1473
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's a skinny little kid, Okay, okay, So

1474
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: the arrest, so the arrest of doctor Hammond and his

1475
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: subsiquent suicide is information that's withheld from the dude who

1476
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: was reading who thinks he could fucking tell by the drawing,

1477
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:35,679
Speaker 1: this doctor Malloy, So he was never told about any

1478
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: of the circumstances around, right, So that's withheld from him

1479
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: and other experts. And the FBI was non informed of

1480
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: this case either to reconsider their profiling of Masters from

1481
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven, so they were never told that there

1482
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: could be another suspect.

1483
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 3: And so this doctor Malloy's fucking pissed.

1484
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:56,560
Speaker 1: At them for that, and he's like, I wouldn't have

1485
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 1: testified against I wouldn't have testified for you guys if

1486
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: I'd known this. So in January two thousand and eight,

1487
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: advanced DNA testing is done in Europe on the clothes

1488
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 1: of Peggy, and scientists found DNA on the cuffs of

1489
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: her blouse and on the waistment of her underwear. That

1490
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: didn't match Timothy Masters and some of the genetic material,

1491
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: all of.

1492
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 3: It left by skin cells. So it's a new touch.

1493
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: DNA craziness is match to Peggy's a long time on again,

1494
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 1: off again boyfriend, the dude she was at sough at

1495
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 1: the bar, which might be kissing him. Yeah, so it

1496
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 1: might have been, but it just would have made it

1497
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,920
Speaker 1: that he's the focus, not Timothy, but of course, but

1498
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: he has it doesn't sound like a really tight alibi,

1499
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: but he has.

1500
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 3: An alibi, okay.

1501
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: So on January twenty second, two thousand and eight, a

1502
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: Colorado judge vacates Timothy Master's conviction and orders him released immediately.

1503
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,880
Speaker 1: And in June twenty eleven, he says he's no longer

1504
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: no longer a suspect in the murder, and he's completely exonerated.

1505
01:16:57,760 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 3: And how old is he now?

1506
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:00,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how old he is, but he he

1507
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: spent ten years in jail, so he was arrested when

1508
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: he was twenty seven, so he's, you know, fuck almost

1509
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:07,240
Speaker 1: ten years, like nine and a half years of jail,

1510
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: I know. So the prosecutors are disciplined in the case,

1511
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:19,719
Speaker 1: and fucking Lieutenant Jim Broderick is like getting some crazy.

1512
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 1: He's indicted on eight counts of felony first degree perjury

1513
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: for material of false statements he made with the arresting conviction,

1514
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,599
Speaker 1: but the fucking three year statute of limitations for perjury

1515
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 1: is gone. So even though this kid spent ten fucking

1516
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 1: years and you can't get that back, his statute of limitations.

1517
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 3: I hate statue of limitations. Okay, but then he's indicted again.

1518
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,679
Speaker 1: They're like, no, dude, nine counts this time, but those

1519
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 1: charges are also dismissed.

1520
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 3: But he resigns, I would hope.

1521
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the county settles with Timothy Masters for Initially,

1522
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,080
Speaker 1: he basically gets almost ten million.

1523
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 3: Dollar holy yeah, million dollars a year for going to jail. Yeah, fuck,

1524
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 3: take it or leave it.

1525
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no no no. In your voice,

1526
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 2: it almost sounded like that's easy. Well I think that

1527
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: was passing through my head. But I mean, obviously, no

1528
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 2: fucking way.

1529
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 3: Of course. It's a living hell, of course. So I

1530
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 3: don't know anyone that would.

1531
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 4: No, there's nobody, right, I mean unless people have been

1532
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,759
Speaker 4: like no, I like, my cousins are all on the inside,

1533
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 4: and I'll be fine if you had some kind of

1534
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 4: guarantee of protection you were the head of some jail

1535
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 4: gang or some shit like that, or like you know

1536
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 4: those all those stories of like the when like the

1537
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 4: the Mafia guys go to jail and.

1538
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,240
Speaker 3: They have like their own you know, they have their

1539
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,640
Speaker 3: own lazy boy chair, and either I don't even have

1540
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 3: a lazy boy chair. I'm not in jail.

1541
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: I must be thinking of like, oh, good Fellows where

1542
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 2: they're like making making pasta and.

1543
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,799
Speaker 3: Stuff like that. I mean, I bet it's like that.

1544
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 2: For some people, but I bet it's a real It

1545
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: really drops off if you.

1546
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 3: Don't have that on your three you're like, how this

1547
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 3: might have been a mistake. I could have maybe made

1548
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:05,800
Speaker 3: money like the lottery. Yeah, But which is also why

1549
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 3: we all have.

1550
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 2: To remember there's a lot of things going on in

1551
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 2: the world, so this isn't This is nobody's priority right now.

1552
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: But for profit jails is the most evil concept it

1553
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,799
Speaker 2: and they have to be they have to be gotten

1554
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 2: rid of. Like that idea is what's going to drive

1555
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 2: us into a dystopian future, the idea that they would

1556
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: make money of keeping people in jail, which is already

1557
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,639
Speaker 2: hellish for most people, and already there are so many

1558
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,759
Speaker 2: people in jail that like this guy, how many stories

1559
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 2: are this of black men?

1560
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're completely right about sucking just the basic

1561
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: conflict of interest that you make money, the more people

1562
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: are in jail.

1563
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 3: The more people aren't. It's so wrong. You can't get

1564
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 3: past that. There's no argument past that.

1565
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 2: I actually won a fight with my uncle at dinner

1566
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: one time because we started talking about it and he's like, no,

1567
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:58,599
Speaker 2: I think, and then I was just like this and this,

1568
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 2: we're just like you simply it's already happened in a

1569
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 2: lot of cases, you know where obviously where people are

1570
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 2: like it's either people are on the take or they

1571
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 2: know that, you know, they get certain cases through where

1572
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:11,959
Speaker 2: it's like, don't even listen.

1573
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,559
Speaker 3: They don't have right representation or whatever. In Boom boom boom.

1574
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:17,960
Speaker 2: It's just a nightmare. If you ever get a chance

1575
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 2: to vote against four. Yeah, just educate yourself on that. Yeah,

1576
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 2: because God, please.

1577
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: God know, it's a nightmare. It doesn't make any sense. Oh,

1578
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: this whole world. Yeah, it's a fucking mess anyway. Yeah,

1579
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: so he got all that money, but we still don't

1580
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: know who killed Kenny.

1581
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 3: It's a cold case.

1582
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 1: And they said they're looking into it, but I haven't

1583
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 1: been able to find any updated articles, any fucking information.

1584
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 3: I think.

1585
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:47,719
Speaker 2: When you and I talked about this, we also talked

1586
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 2: about comparing it to the movie The River's Edge, which

1587
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:52,719
Speaker 2: is a movie from the late eighties.

1588
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 3: I believe, Yeah, I think so, and.

1589
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 2: It's one of the most disturbed. When I saw it,

1590
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 2: I was like a teenager and it was so disturbing.

1591
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 3: But it was that was like.

1592
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,639
Speaker 2: This that kind of era where it was like, teens

1593
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 2: today are becoming very disaffected and no one cares and

1594
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 2: there's an apathy. And it's not that that movie is

1595
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 2: trying to say that specifically, but it was almost like

1596
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 2: this that was a cultural thing in that Tipper Gore

1597
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 2: era of like your music is bad and your rap

1598
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:19,799
Speaker 2: music and all.

1599
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: These kind of people, Yeah, actually satanists, these teenagers are.

1600
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:27,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the satanic panic whole thing. And so instead of

1601
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 2: these days where we're slowly learning that it's like a

1602
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 2: trauma response, whereas like it's something like that happens to

1603
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,560
Speaker 2: you as a child, you would never know how to

1604
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 2: deal with it and you could completely be in shock,

1605
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 2: literal physical shock for days. On top of the fact

1606
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 2: that boys are taught especially if he was being raised

1607
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 2: only by his father. You're not allowed to have feelings.

1608
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 2: He couldn't go to school and start crying. He couldn't,

1609
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:55,639
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like he's supposed to either

1610
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 2: man up, you know, like his choices were so limited

1611
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 2: in dealing.

1612
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:01,639
Speaker 3: With that problem.

1613
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 1: And from what I could see when he's talking about

1614
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: why he didn't call the police and what he thought

1615
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 1: it was a mannequin, is that throughout the morning he

1616
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:12,200
Speaker 1: is slowly starting.

1617
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 3: To realize what it was.

1618
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: It's like he needs to get there, so maybe he

1619
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: would have called the police later in the day. YEA

1620
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:20,640
Speaker 1: once he kind of dawned on him because he was

1621
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 1: like contemplating, is like I got on the bus and

1622
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: I was like, is someone playing a trick on me?

1623
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 1: That looked like a man and someone trying to prank me?

1624
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 1: Like he didn't understand.

1625
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 3: What it was.

1626
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: And I think that that's I think your Yeah, your

1627
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 1: brain won't say there's a dead body. It says there's

1628
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 1: a mannequin, Which is why we're always like, it's not

1629
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 1: a mannequin. It's because we can't fucking even deal with

1630
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 1: the fact that something might be a dead body. Your

1631
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: brain is our immediately, mannequin, it's not real.

1632
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 2: To explain this away so that this panic doesn't rise

1633
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 2: in me, all of my systems go berserve, right for sure.

1634
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:54,759
Speaker 2: And also then once some some that piece of information

1635
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,440
Speaker 2: does go it like like if he did see her genitals,

1636
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,879
Speaker 2: that would have that would have trottized him so terribly totally.

1637
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,679
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what fucking some kid draws in a notebook,

1638
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 2: the real thing is totally different. And if you listen

1639
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 2: to heavy metal and you're trying to be a tough guy,

1640
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 2: that's one thing. Or like if you're expressing your rage

1641
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, that's one thing. But seeing it in

1642
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:20,560
Speaker 2: real life must have been horrifying for this kid.

1643
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: Right, And the saddest part is that this whole charade

1644
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 1: and this whole insane you know, laser focus on this

1645
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: kid and these thirty fucking years of this case and

1646
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 1: there's no but there's nobody held responsible for Peggy's murder,

1647
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,600
Speaker 1: and it's almost it's just not the focus anymore of

1648
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: the case. Right, So if that hadn't been the case,

1649
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 1: then maybe her murder would have been solved.

1650
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's the problem with the ego coming into it.

1651
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I think that's just I think like

1652
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 2: they're learning better and better and faster and faster as

1653
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 2: these things come up where it's like, well, it used

1654
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 2: to be for years and hundreds of years, it was

1655
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 2: all theory and it was whoever could kind of like,

1656
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 2: you know, boss the situation the best they could and

1657
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 2: make everybody feel safe again, because that's a lot of

1658
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 2: it too. And then it's just like but now it's like,

1659
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 2: here's a proof that didn't happen. Here's the proof that

1660
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:22,760
Speaker 2: you know, it's not that way and everyone has to

1661
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 2: adapt and like, you know, it's the same thing of

1662
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:29,799
Speaker 2: cops not cooperating across county lines, where it's like, okay,

1663
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 2: so you'd prefer to go unsolved then to have help.

1664
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, it's like and everyone did that, including the prosecutors,

1665
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: and one of the women female prosecutors, said that she

1666
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: was embarrassed that she hadn't didn't have more info or

1667
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: something like that. It's just, yeah, you can't, you can't

1668
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: do that. And I think this is one of those

1669
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 1: cases of like that they use as an example of

1670
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 1: why you can't. You can't make the evidence fit your suspects.

1671
01:24:58,439 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 3: Yes, it has to be the other way around.

1672
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Totally yeah, exactly right, which sorry because I know a

1673
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 2: lot of people like went the other direction in after

1674
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 2: a while. But that's the Stephen averything. There's no fucking

1675
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 2: evidence that any of the stuff that Brendan Dassy was

1676
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 2: like led to say.

1677
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:16,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they couldn't.

1678
01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:18,720
Speaker 2: Find a drop of fucking blood in that in his

1679
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:24,280
Speaker 2: house where the one witness who got him convicted said

1680
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: it happened. It didn't happen that way. Now, it could

1681
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 2: have happened a different way, or something else could have

1682
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 2: happened that nobody's been like talked about. But that one

1683
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 2: thing didn't happen that convicted him.

1684
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 3: That's what's fucked up. Totally. Booh, it's all fucked Okay,

1685
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 3: we're back. Are there any updates?

1686
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 1: There are?

1687
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 3: So.

1688
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 1: Timothy Masters wrote a book detailing his experience being tried, jailed,

1689
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 1: and exonerated for Peggy's murder, titled Drawn to Injustice The

1690
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction of Timothy Masters. Peggy's brother, Tom Hetrick, has

1691
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,479
Speaker 1: remained vocal about his sister's case, making public appeals that

1692
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: he hopes will reignite interest, and the Colorado's District Attorney's

1693
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 1: office declared the case close and said that it would

1694
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: require a full confession from the perpetrator to change that.

1695
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 3: Wow, well, now it's time for us to get into

1696
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 3: good things.

1697
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 1: Of the week? Are there any I think? So? Okay?

1698
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 3: Good? Is this our ninety ninth episode? Is it eight ninety?

1699
01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 3: Thank god?

1700
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 1: So we have two weeks to find a fucking person

1701
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:33,559
Speaker 1: to have on the show or just think of a theme.

1702
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's not add that on to the show.

1703
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 3: I was going to say, we're like, no, we have

1704
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 3: to do something now, I know. I don't know why

1705
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 3: I thought of that.

1706
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: What if we just don't do one hundred episode and

1707
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 1: we just go right to one?

1708
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the thirteenth floor, Yeah, the thirteenth Flora

1709
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,880
Speaker 2: Waistside School episode. What if we just didn't do one

1710
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,559
Speaker 2: hundred episode? Whatever you want, I don't care a shit.

1711
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I've already bought your present, but that's fine.

1712
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:00,759
Speaker 1: Did you buy me something?

1713
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 3: No, you're excited. I got the joy on your face.

1714
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 3: You have to get me something. Yes, now we have

1715
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 3: to get each other something. Okay, ship, I guess I'm

1716
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 3: part of that. I don't even think. Oh wait, I god,

1717
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 3: I should give me a Lando Lakes trade back. I'm

1718
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 3: saving nope. Ud Like fuck, it's already been on social media.

1719
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 3: It is a gift that's been given to get you.

1720
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 2: Also, you have to one up Land of Lakes because

1721
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 2: Land of Lakes was a rando I love you and

1722
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 2: I love this reference gift.

1723
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 3: What did I get you in another specific Lando Lakes track?

1724
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 3: Second late trade you can't have one tray active too.

1725
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:39,520
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna find that lady.

1726
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 2: From whatever from the Florida City and get that lady

1727
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 2: buck some jewelry box back.

1728
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna buy it for double the price I love it,

1729
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 3: which is like nothing. That's a good one.

1730
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 1: Damn it.

1731
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 3: Thirty dollars. What am I gonna do? Yeah, we got it?

1732
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 3: This is fun.

1733
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 2: This is uh. We have now have two weeks to

1734
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 2: give one hundred one hundredth episode gifts. Okay, and it

1735
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 2: has to be it would have to please a Martha

1736
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,880
Speaker 2: Stewart okay, and it would have to please somebody else

1737
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 2: that would be on the other I guess a Snoop Dogg.

1738
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:14,040
Speaker 2: That's the other end of that.

1739
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 3: Sure, everyone has to okay.

1740
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 2: And please all that comes. It would have to please,

1741
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 2: got it, It would have to and we have to

1742
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:24,760
Speaker 2: use every word. I don't know.

1743
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 3: Can we leave some outes? Just too many?

1744
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 2: Can't I drop four words and change the meaning of

1745
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 2: the sentence I'm saying?

1746
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:34,400
Speaker 3: And have you follow along? What do you What made

1747
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 3: you happy this week? Do you know I forgot it?

1748
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 3: Was it your hangover?

1749
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Not having a hangover? Well, I guess it didn't make

1750
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 1: me happy. It made me cry, But I really liked it.

1751
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:46,320
Speaker 1: The thing I liked this week?

1752
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,640
Speaker 3: You liked to cry? No, can I tell you what

1753
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 3: I liked this week?

1754
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: That's what I want to hear. Okay, yeah, this week? Okay,

1755
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 1: my therapist told me about a podcast that I need

1756
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: to listen to, and now I'm fucking obsessed with it.

1757
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 3: Oh yes, that's right, My god, that's right. And it

1758
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 3: made me sit in my car and ball and like,

1759
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 3: listen to the end of one of the episodes. It's

1760
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 3: called Where Should We Begin?

1761
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 1: And it's this therapist named Esther Perel and she it's

1762
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 1: an anonymous couples therapy session that she records and you

1763
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:21,680
Speaker 1: and kind of she talks you through it too, and

1764
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 1: it's like so beautiful and so well done, and even

1765
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 1: if it's like a couple that you don't relate to,

1766
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: it's these themes that make you kind of understand things

1767
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: more and I like did one like vincid I went

1768
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:34,680
Speaker 1: to therapy this week. I was like, I heard this

1769
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 1: and I want to do this, Like can we try this?

1770
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 1: This is what I want? Like and it really it

1771
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: was really beautiful and there. So there's an episode that

1772
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 1: I fucking the one I cried from is called It's

1773
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 1: called Trauma Doesn't Like to Be Touched, And it's just

1774
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 1: such a beautiful episode. I think everyone should listen to it.

1775
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 2: I want to that you sent that one to me, right, Yeah,

1776
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:57,640
Speaker 2: you have to. I'm gonna listen to it, but I

1777
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,200
Speaker 2: keep going. Do I feel like bawling right now? No?

1778
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 3: I don't.

1779
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: I don't.

1780
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 3: Actually, I'm gonna save it. Yeah.

1781
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:04,559
Speaker 1: It's hard to be like you're going to cry your

1782
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,839
Speaker 1: eyes out and be really sad and moved.

1783
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. I sometimes I like that, Yeah, but.

1784
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 2: It has to like you know what's good, that's good

1785
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 2: for on a plane. I love to just do a

1786
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 2: weird cry next to somebody on a plane because something

1787
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 2: about that happens to me a lot when I travel,

1788
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 2: something about taking off and landing, I just start crying,

1789
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 2: like I'll start thinking about like, either I'm landing back

1790
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 2: into my life and it's this, this and this, or

1791
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,640
Speaker 2: when I'm taking off, I'm like whatever, it's very transitional

1792
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:35,640
Speaker 2: maybe and it gets me emotional, and then I'll just

1793
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 2: sit there like slowly wiping through while the person next

1794
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 2: to me is like.

1795
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 3: Say anything, do you want pretzels? The lady's offering pretzels?

1796
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 3: All right, what's yours?

1797
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:49,559
Speaker 2: Did I already tell you about going to Hamilton? Did

1798
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 2: I talk about it on the show Around to Hamton Bish?

1799
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 2: I went to Hamilton when my friend this was like

1800
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 2: two weeks ago, probably my friend and tell me my friend, Oh,

1801
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 2: that's right, because okay, uh, my friend Stephanie, who we've

1802
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 2: talked about a lot on this podcast, but she email

1803
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 2: or texted me and was like, would if I got

1804
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 2: Hamilton tickets? Would you want to go? And I was like,

1805
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 2: I absolutely would love to. I just would never do

1806
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 2: it on my own. So we went pantageous. Oh my god,

1807
01:31:20,680 --> 01:31:24,719
Speaker 2: uh we were. I realized this is unfortunate. I realized

1808
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:27,320
Speaker 2: as I was sitting there, I needed one stronger glasses

1809
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 2: prescription because I can't see in the glasses that I

1810
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 2: have anymore far enough away, which was a bummer because

1811
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 2: I was like squinting like a lunatic the whole time.

1812
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:38,639
Speaker 3: But it was so fucking good.

1813
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 2: Now, how dumb am I to be saying that out

1814
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,600
Speaker 2: loud nine years after the fact. But when things like

1815
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 2: that come out, I'm always the one that's like, I

1816
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:49,679
Speaker 2: bet it's not I bet I know better, I bet

1817
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 2: I have a superior taste whatever, which is a lame

1818
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:56,600
Speaker 2: habit that I'm it's just left over Kurt Cobain issues.

1819
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:57,760
Speaker 3: That I have from the nineties that I have to

1820
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 3: let go of. But it really you reminded me how

1821
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 3: much I love to be a fan. I love to

1822
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:05,720
Speaker 3: be a fan. It makes me feel so good.

1823
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 2: And when you watch something that is better than the hype,

1824
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 2: and there's no there's nothing that's more hyped than Hamilton,

1825
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,720
Speaker 2: and it absolutely doesn't just live up to it, it

1826
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 2: goes beyond it. And there was a Moment's people, this

1827
01:32:20,360 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 2: is the oldest thing I could be saying, But there's

1828
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 2: a moment in one of the lines in the musical

1829
01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 2: is immigrants get Things done. And there's so many people

1830
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 2: in the theater that have already seen it at least once,

1831
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 2: just for that part. They explode with cheers and then

1832
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 2: immediately stop because they know they don't want to block

1833
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:38,519
Speaker 2: everybody's enjoyment of the rest.

1834
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's awesome. And it made me burst

1835
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:44,760
Speaker 3: into tears. It was like, immigrants get things done. It's

1836
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 3: like and then it just stops. And it was like

1837
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,600
Speaker 3: and I went, yeah, I am too. I'm like you

1838
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 3: generation away, I'm immigrants, that's me.

1839
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 2: It was the fucking coolest, best thing, best lyrics, coolest music,

1840
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 2: best story, everything I'm going.

1841
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 3: Can I get? Is it hard to get tickets? It's

1842
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 3: impossible to get tickets. I'm not going, but I would

1843
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 3: love it. It just is so worth it.

1844
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 2: And you know, and there are people who are like

1845
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 2: I think there are people who are trying to insinuate Oh,

1846
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 2: if it's in LA, it's not gonna be as good

1847
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 2: of a cast, right, yes? Or that well, those people

1848
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,840
Speaker 2: are high as kites. Because the people that I saw

1849
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 2: at the Pantages, I don't know. I'm sure Linn Manuel

1850
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,599
Speaker 2: Moretta was amazing in it. I wouldn't have replaced any

1851
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:30,479
Speaker 2: of those people with anybody else. They were incredible. And

1852
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 2: when people can sing in a theater, that's.

1853
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 3: Being my god, I just it is so much talent.

1854
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:39,439
Speaker 3: I love it so much. They fill up the whole room.

1855
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:42,760
Speaker 3: What an incredible skill. Yeah, that I'll never have I know.

1856
01:33:43,320 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 3: Oh wait, we do that? Wait what we do that?

1857
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 3: We just don't sing.

1858
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 2: That's right, that's the difference. It's a big fucking difference.

1859
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,519
Speaker 2: I'll tell you. You know what. You're right, so you know great,

1860
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 2: just like groundbreaking revelation, Hamilton is good.

1861
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:01,519
Speaker 3: Karen with the fucking update.

1862
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back.

1863
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So the title of this episode was grasp It,

1864
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 2: of course, but if we had to rename it, we

1865
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 2: could call it. Here's some pitches for a new name,

1866
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 2: like the Big Sipper Himself, which is something I accused

1867
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:22,599
Speaker 2: Stephen of being while he was doing his coffee bit.

1868
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:25,080
Speaker 1: That's clever. How about Surprise I'm a Psychopath?

1869
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:28,479
Speaker 3: Or Austin France.

1870
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:32,600
Speaker 1: How about au Revoir Motherfuckers.

1871
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,759
Speaker 2: And the Remotest Island, which is when you were living

1872
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 2: you're a bad packer, you can buy anything anywhere.

1873
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're on the remotest Island. All right, well I

1874
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:45,240
Speaker 1: think we did it.

1875
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:48,919
Speaker 2: That's so many choices. Okay, that was this week's episode

1876
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 2: of rewind.

1877
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:51,799
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the pod loft and let Dottie

1878
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:59,040
Speaker 1: say goodbye from twenty seventeen. Thanks for listening you guys.

1879
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:06,799
Speaker 3: Thank you, Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye bye, Dottie.

1880
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:08,440
Speaker 3: What cookie?

1881
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 1: What cookie?

1882
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:12,719
Speaker 3: Hm hmm.

1883
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:19,760
Speaker 2: Dotty Wait a second, that's time we've lot like guys

1884
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:20,720
Speaker 2: are getting another one.

1885
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 3: I know, I know, my angel