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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you

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Speaker 2: should know. Our episode on blue zones, which is not well,

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Speaker 2: we'll explain it. It's not immediately apparent what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: You have to kind of know the ins and outs.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of what we're going to

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Speaker 2: do here, is explain the ins and outs of blue zones.

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Speaker 2: No why I said all that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I mean I'll just go until people right

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Speaker 1: off the bat that a blue zone is supposedly an

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Speaker 1: area on planet Earth where people they have an extraordinary

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Speaker 1: amount or higher than average amount rather of people that

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Speaker 1: live to be one hundred years old.

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Speaker 2: Well, there you go. Now you know the ins and

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Speaker 2: outs of blue zones everybody.

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Speaker 1: But the story behind blue zones is what's super interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think it started well, we're going to jump back

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Speaker 1: to the seventies at one point, but it started out

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Speaker 1: basically in two thousand and four when there was a

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Speaker 1: paper that came out they said, hey, there's a large

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Speaker 1: number of centenarians, people that live to be one hundred

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Speaker 1: at least in a small area in the mountains of Sardinia, Italy,

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Speaker 1: and the author of the papers shaded it blue on

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Speaker 1: a map called it a blue zone. And then in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five it really picked up steam because

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Speaker 1: there was a national geographic reporter named Dan Butner who

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Speaker 1: wrote an article called the Secrets of Long Life in

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Speaker 1: which he talked about Sardinia and his own finding of Okinawa,

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Speaker 1: Japan and Loma Linda, California, his two more blue zones,

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Speaker 1: and was like, Hey, what's going on here? We got

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Speaker 1: to figure this out because people there are living longer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the whole premise was, Hey, don't you want

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Speaker 2: to live longer? Let's find out what these people's secrets are,

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Speaker 2: because clearly, if there's a bunch of them clustered together,

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Speaker 2: that means they're all doing something similarly. So let's get

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Speaker 2: to the bottom of this everybody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the way that he put it, what if I said,

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Speaker 2: you could add up to ten years of your life.

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Speaker 2: A long healthy life is no accident. It begins with

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Speaker 2: good genes, but it also depends on good habits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I think everyone agrees with that generally.

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Speaker 2: Sure, But one of the reasons why it does seem

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Speaker 2: like there's a set of habits that you can engage in,

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Speaker 2: from the Mediterranean lifestyle or the Mediterranean diet to getting

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Speaker 2: out there and walking every day. A large part of

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Speaker 2: that is based on how popular the concept of blue

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Speaker 2: Zones became. And you can thank Dan Buttener I believe

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Speaker 2: his last name was Butner, like he just blew the

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Speaker 2: whole thing up and is I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: single handedly, because there are definitely people working behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: but he's the one who made it, who introduced it

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Speaker 2: to popular.

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Speaker 1: Culture, Yeah, for sure. And sort of off the jump here,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk one second about a side article

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Speaker 1: I read in Times recently, because one of the things

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Speaker 1: that you're going to hear talk about or us talk

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Speaker 1: about him talking about, is one of the things you

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Speaker 1: can do to live longer, supposedly is tight social networks.

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Speaker 1: I just read a New York Times article last week

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Speaker 1: about superagers, and it's not necessarily people that live to

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Speaker 1: be one hundred. That's what blue Zones is talking about,

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Speaker 1: but it's just people that live into their eighties and

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Speaker 1: nineties without getting dementia. And it was a pretty robust study.

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Speaker 1: They had a large cohort over like twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: and they said some of them drink booze every day.

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Speaker 1: Some of them there have been smokers. Some of them

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Speaker 1: eat a lot of red meat. They said. The one

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Speaker 1: single thing that they found in common with all of

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Speaker 1: them was social relationships. Active social relationships with people outside

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Speaker 1: of your house and going out and seeing people. They

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Speaker 1: said they tend to be extroverts, so people that go

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Speaker 1: out and socialize with other people was the one commonality

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Speaker 1: between all of them.

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Speaker 2: That sucks. Oh no, I'm in big trouble man. We

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Speaker 2: got to get you out, buddy, So I'm gonna have

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Speaker 2: to update my wardrobe.

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Speaker 1: You're like eating fish and olive oil and walking every day.

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Speaker 2: Doing everything else.

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Speaker 1: I just don't want to talk to anyone, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: and momo.

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Speaker 2: I'd put my hand up by my face when I

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Speaker 2: walk past somebody when I'm out walking every day.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting because you know, most

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Speaker 1: of us in our gen X category are dealing with

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Speaker 1: aging parents, and I feel like everyone I know is

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Speaker 1: going through it in some capacity. So I'm just reading

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Speaker 1: a lot about that stuff lately.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's nice of you. Yeah, prepping yourself.

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Speaker 1: Prepping myself, so I don't do this to Ruby.

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Speaker 2: Nice, you know nice. So yeah, tight social network site

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Speaker 2: is a big one as far as the blue zones

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Speaker 2: are concerned, and I guess that's the only one that

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Speaker 2: really matters. But they have other stuff too, like you

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Speaker 2: need to have a sense of purpose. Anecdotally, I know

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Speaker 2: that makes sense because a lot of people I don't

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Speaker 2: know if a lot's the right term, but there are

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Speaker 2: definitely people who die very shortly after retiring. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: in the United States, your job in a lot of

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Speaker 2: cases is your identity and your purpose in life. People

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Speaker 2: are like family forget that accounting is my purpose in life,

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Speaker 2: and then once they retire, they don't have any numbers

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Speaker 2: to crunch and they keel over dead. So that I mean, anecdotally,

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Speaker 2: it definitely makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But this nat Geo article that Butner

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Speaker 1: wrote went viral. Buttner was basically like, Hey, this is

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Speaker 1: it for me. He did a Ted talk and has

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Speaker 1: developed quite a robust cottage industry around blue zones. He's

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Speaker 1: written in a lot of books. He's written blue Zone cookbooks,

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Speaker 1: There's been a blue Zone Netflix series, there are blue

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Speaker 1: Zone branded like he copyrighted the term blue zone or

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Speaker 1: trademarked it rather, and there are skincare products and iced teas,

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Speaker 1: and there's hot sauces, and you can do a Blue

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Speaker 1: Zone retreat or pay monthly for a Blue Zone app.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that he's selling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. He basically blew it up into a

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Speaker 2: lifestyle brand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is one reason some people have come along

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Speaker 1: and criticized it and said, wait a minute, is this

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Speaker 1: like real science and real research or is this just

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Speaker 1: creating a brand and making money. I mean, not with

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Speaker 1: maybe nefarious intent or anything, but like, let's look at

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Speaker 1: the science. And a big person that you're going to

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Speaker 1: hear come up a lot in this is a guy

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Speaker 1: named Saul Justin Newman, and in twenty nineteen he put

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Speaker 1: out a statement basically that said, hey, I think this

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Speaker 1: is all just bad data.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. He wrote a paper on it essentially.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, like bad record keeping on ages.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And this is not new. The idea of superagers

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Speaker 2: or centenarians, especially once clustered together, has been long controversial.

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Speaker 2: Anytime somebody's come along and been like, hey, we found

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Speaker 2: a bunch of people that are living to their hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Let's look at what they're doing. So the rest of

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Speaker 2: us can do that too. But back in nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: there was a guy named Alexander Leif. He was a physician,

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Speaker 2: and he got kind of caught up in this whole thing,

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Speaker 2: just trying to figure it out, and he wrote an

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Speaker 2: article for National Geographic, just like Dan Butner did in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, but this is in nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and he went to different parts of the world and

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Speaker 2: where there were anecdotally, I guess, a bunch of centenarians

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Speaker 2: living and he investigated it and he found, yes, there

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Speaker 2: are some groups of people around the world who have

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Speaker 2: some sort of secret to aging late in life because

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Speaker 2: there's a bunch of hundred plus year olds who live

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Speaker 2: in these usually isolated areas.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he himself, in credit to Alexander leaf, he

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what this all like? Even this

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Speaker 1: was after the article was published. He didn't just like

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Speaker 1: sit back and collect his million dollars and say, hell,

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Speaker 1: I guess that's that. He was like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: this like some of this stuff is nagging at me

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Speaker 1: and doesn't seem to make much sense. So he kind

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Speaker 1: of went back on his own research even and started

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Speaker 1: looking through these records basically, and he in one case,

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Speaker 1: he saw a death certificate of a man who was

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Speaker 1: allegedly one hundred and sixty eight years old, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, that's pushing it, I feel.

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Speaker 2: Like for sure.

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Speaker 1: And in another area he met a villager who claimed

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Speaker 1: to be one hundred and twenty two. He went back

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Speaker 1: a year later and the guy said he was one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty four, So he was like, all right.

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Speaker 1: Five years later, in nineteen seventy eight, he partnered with

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Speaker 1: a couple of other scientists to sort of get down

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of it all and dug through records

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Speaker 1: in these places and found a lot of like discrepancies

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Speaker 1: where people were off by decades on their actual age,

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Speaker 1: and they reckon that, like, I think they're doing this

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Speaker 1: because it brings them a lot of prestige. Instead of

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Speaker 1: being like eighty something years old, they say they're one

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Speaker 1: hundred and five, and all of a sudden, they're like

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Speaker 1: the village elder, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, right exactly, but a fraudulent village elder. So essentially

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Speaker 2: what happened was an outsider, a Westerner got tripped up

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Speaker 2: into what is probably some a custom in the area.

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Speaker 2: It's like that people just kind of inflate their ages

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Speaker 2: and the like. People like Alexander Leaf are obsessed with

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Speaker 2: finding out exactly how that happens and not stopping to

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Speaker 2: be like, I don't know if this is actually real,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, hats off to Alexander Leaf for going back

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Speaker 2: on his own findings and admitting, like, now, this is

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Speaker 2: probably not right because they concluded without a doubt that

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Speaker 2: the Ecuadorians in this village of bil Cabamba were fraudulent. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm sure that also applies to the

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Speaker 2: other places too, So everybody just forget the article I wrote.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a again, hats off, because that's

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Speaker 1: to put your own name out there as like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I got it wrong, Like I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: would have done it.

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Speaker 2: You don't think So we do that all the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh well that's a good point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we correct ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to introduce you to a couple of

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Speaker 1: more people that factor in pretty heavily here. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine, there was an Italian researcher named Giovanni Pisses

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Speaker 1: never heard that last name. He presented a paper at

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Speaker 1: a demography conference, and then there was a why Is

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Speaker 1: that funny? Is it? Demography conferences?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Party central?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I can imagine somebody going what segment of the

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Speaker 2: population here is ready to party?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Or I wonder if they just stand around at

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Speaker 1: break and look out on the street and they're like,

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Speaker 1: how many people you think are over there on that sidewink?

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Speaker 2: People are smoking Marlboro lights.

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Speaker 1: So in that audience though, where Giovanni Pess was presenting

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Speaker 1: a paper, there was a guy named another demographer, obviously

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Speaker 1: named Michael pournin French guy, and he had recalled this

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Speaker 1: fiasco in the early seventies, and he was like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, he's talking about Sardinia, Italy that you know,

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Speaker 1: originally the area where Butner wrote the article. Turns out

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Speaker 1: Butner wrote the article about this research on Sardinia that

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Speaker 1: Giovanni Pest had done.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So if it's very easy to just assume that

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Speaker 2: Dan Butner came along and either piggybacked on Pess and

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Speaker 2: Poulaine's research or kind of invited himself into their little party,

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Speaker 2: he was actually already looking into this, Like I think

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Speaker 2: as far back as ninety nine he had set up

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Speaker 2: a project to investigate how Okinawan's who are widely reputed

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Speaker 2: for living into their hundreds, and we should say healthy,

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Speaker 2: not like decrepit old balls of yarn, like healthy people

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Speaker 2: who still move around and do stuff on a daily basis.

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Speaker 2: How they were doing that so long before Pez and

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Speaker 2: Poulain put their stuff together, I guess about the same time.

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Speaker 2: But independently, Buttner was doing his own thing too, So

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Speaker 2: he didn't just come along and steal their their idea

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Speaker 2: or their research.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And as you'll see, they worked together

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Speaker 1: for quite a while after this too. But so Pooland

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Speaker 1: remembered the thing from the seventies and he was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna go to Sardinia myself and sort

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Speaker 1: of dig into this. So he did that, started started

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Speaker 1: cross checking birth records and marriage records and anything he

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Speaker 1: could get from archives, you know, in the town or

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Speaker 1: from the church or whatever. And they are the ones

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Speaker 1: they put x's when they clustered, they shaded it blue.

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Speaker 1: And they're the ones Polan and Pass in two thousand

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Speaker 1: that coined the term blue zone, even though I guess

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Speaker 1: Butner trademarked it. So I don't know. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what happened there.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't find anything about Polan or Pezz's reaction to

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Speaker 2: him trademarking that.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it was he did.

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Speaker 2: But so, yeah, it's like all the exes. Whenever they

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Speaker 2: confirmed somebody, they started to cluster so much that it

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Speaker 2: just became a blue region. And so so now Dan

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Speaker 2: Buttner had a name for this idea, this concept that

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Speaker 2: he'd been working on for years, and he yeah, he

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Speaker 2: took it and ran with it and turned it into

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Speaker 2: that lifestyle brand. Pez and Poulaine Essentially we're like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's fine, We're going to stay academic here and try

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Speaker 2: to keep studying this, and Bututner would kind of come

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Speaker 2: in and out of their research over the next couple decades.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And the key thing as far as the original

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Speaker 1: three places in Buttner's article, like you mentioned, he had

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Speaker 1: already studied Okinawa, he picked up on what Pulin and

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Speaker 1: Pez were doing with sardinia. But Loma Linda, California is

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Speaker 1: in there, and everyone was like, what the heck is

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Speaker 1: Loma Linda got going on? And just last year Buttner

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Speaker 1: told The New York Times that Lobolina was apparently included

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Speaker 1: because the editor at nat GEO said, we got to

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Speaker 1: get an American blue zone in there, like this needs

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Speaker 1: to be I know, it needs to be like applicable

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Speaker 1: to our readers here. So a lot of critics, of course,

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Speaker 1: are going to come out and say, like, that's that

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Speaker 1: just kind of that's not science.

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Speaker 2: No, you don't like editors don't dictate scientific methods or results, right,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's a big criticism. But and I think

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Speaker 2: also like I haven't seen anything that says Poulaine or

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Speaker 2: Pez are irritated by or just like Buttener or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. But just looking at the whole thing thing

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Speaker 2: from the outside, Butner just keeps attracting just you know,

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Speaker 2: contradiction or naysayer after naysayer, and Plan and Pesz are like, dude,

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Speaker 2: we're doing like real science over here, Like stop giving

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Speaker 2: our work a bad name because you're out there selling

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Speaker 2: Low Melinda because your editor told you to put it

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Speaker 2: into the original article.

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Speaker 1: Or selling hot sauce.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, selling hot sauce is another great one. But so

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Speaker 2: in I guess his defense, Buttner said, well, actually, Low Melenda,

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Speaker 2: statistically speaking, people there tend to live anywhere between I

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Speaker 2: think four to ten years more than the average California resident.

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Speaker 2: And there's actually a really good reason for that. There's

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Speaker 2: a huge cluster of Seventh Day Adventists there, and you'll

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Speaker 2: remember from our Kellogg Live episode on the Kellogg Brothers,

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Speaker 2: the Seventh Day Adventists kind of inspired them than their

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Speaker 2: health food movement. They don't tend to smoke or drink

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Speaker 2: or eat meat, and so he was like, that's great,

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Speaker 2: We're going to include them in there. So it's not

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Speaker 2: like he just threw a dart like the Bay City

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Speaker 2: Rollers and picked whatever city that it landed on, like

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Speaker 2: there was a reason why. And it turned out to

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Speaker 2: be a pretty good business move because five years ago,

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, Adventist Health, which is a essentially the

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Speaker 2: hospital arm of the Seventh Day Adventists, they bought the

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Speaker 2: Blue Zone trademarks and all of the brand. They now

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Speaker 2: own it the Adventists.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting, all right, I'm going to ponder that. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a break and we'll come back and talk more

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Speaker 1: about Blue Zones.

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Speaker 2: So Chuck, like I said, Butener and Pess and Puline

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Speaker 2: all started working together in the early two thousands, and

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Speaker 2: Buttener was funded by National Geographic. He was a fellow

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Speaker 2: for them, I think even before he wrote the article

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Speaker 2: for National Geographic but they started funding expeditions to look

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Speaker 2: for more blue zones, and in the mid two thousands

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Speaker 2: the aughts, I guess they identified two more, one in

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Speaker 2: Costa Rica on the Nikoya Peninsula and another one in Akaria, Greece,

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Speaker 2: which is between Greece and Turkey. It's the island between

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Speaker 2: Greece and Turkey. It looks absolutely amazingly beautiful. But they

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Speaker 2: added them too. There they because they went and studied

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Speaker 2: the centenarians and said, yep, this qualifies as a blue zone.

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Speaker 1: I was just laughing because I was wonder if the

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Speaker 1: NAT Geo editor was like, I kind of want to

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Speaker 1: retire near Sedona. See if you can find me some

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Speaker 1: olds there.

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Speaker 2: Is right, I heard there's lay lines there.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to sell the wife. More recently than that,

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Speaker 1: they've added more blue zones. Besides the area of Costa

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Speaker 1: Rica and Akaria, Greece, Singapore was added in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: That's in the book Blue Zones Secrets for a Living

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Speaker 1: Longer Colon.

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Speaker 2: Nothing to add here.

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Speaker 1: Martinique in twenty twenty three that was added as well.

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Speaker 1: This was not Butner. Apparently Poohlin is the one that

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Speaker 1: put that Caribbean Island, which is a department of France.

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Speaker 1: He put that one on the list because there were

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Speaker 1: twice as many centenarians per capita in mainland France. And

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Speaker 1: so they're saying like they're basically finding these things that

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Speaker 1: happen and saying like, hey, that's a blue zone. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna call it that because we made up that name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but according to Poohland's very strict definition, there has

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Speaker 2: to be a higher than normal or usual percentage of

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Speaker 2: centenarians people who are over age one hundred, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: that they typically are healthy actor yeah, yeah, they're still

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Speaker 2: living life, right, That is the true definition of a

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Speaker 2: blue zone. I get the impression. Butner is including with

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Speaker 2: low Melinda got a little fast and loose with the definition,

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Speaker 2: and that that's probably a point of contention.

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Speaker 1: Well, they came up with, each of them independently came

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Speaker 1: up of their own list basically of things to do

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Speaker 1: to live longer. Bututener has his. They're called the Power Nine,

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Speaker 1: which is trademarked, and Pounland calls his the Seven Principles.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see if that was trademarked. I don't here, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so either. Here they are one is

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Speaker 1: moved naturally, and that is basically like you're not going

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Speaker 1: to the gym every day and quote unquote working out.

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Speaker 1: You're just you're moving through the world. You might be

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Speaker 1: herding goats in this village every day, or working in

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Speaker 1: the garden all day long, or just walking back and

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Speaker 1: forth to the village to do your daily trading. They

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Speaker 1: found that if you just move naturally through the world

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Speaker 1: as you age, instead of just sitting on the couch,

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Speaker 1: then you're going to live longer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have the same daily routine as Balki Bartakamus,

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Speaker 2: you are probably going to live into your hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Good one.

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Speaker 2: Also, eating meat in very small proportions or not at all,

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Speaker 2: seems to be correlated with living a long life among

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Speaker 2: blues owners. Yeah, usually essentially plant based diets, some fish,

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Speaker 2: depending on where you live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then Okinawan's are very famous for something called Harahachi boo,

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Speaker 2: which is the eighty percent rule where you eat until

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Speaker 2: you feel about eighty percent full and then you stop,

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Speaker 2: which is extremely clever because you get fuller and fuller

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Speaker 2: after you start to feel full, so that that rounds

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Speaker 2: up to the full hundred percent of fullness. Almost every

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Speaker 2: time you taught me that, and it really works. So

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Speaker 2: it's really difficult to stop eating when you're eighty percent full,

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Speaker 2: when you're eating processed Western food, it's nearly impossible. But

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Speaker 2: if you can pull it off, you're like, wow, this

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Speaker 2: actually works.

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Speaker 1: You should probably slow down to a bit that helps.

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Speaker 1: That's what they say, because all of a sudden, if

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Speaker 1: you're like me, you're like, oh, oh god, I'm in

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Speaker 1: one hundred and five percent.

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Speaker 2: Right, let's try to stop. But also if you slow

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Speaker 2: down and really like you can sense the food that

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Speaker 2: you're eating more, you can enjoy it more mindful too.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, say, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Since a purpose we talked about, it's called different things

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Speaker 1: in different parts of the world, be coustor Weekns call

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Speaker 1: it pura vida mm hmm. It's basically like, you know,

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Speaker 1: do things that give you joy and like that you

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Speaker 1: want to get out of bed and do.

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Speaker 2: Like accounting, right, sure, if that's your thing, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean it could be like a hobby, It can

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Speaker 2: be anything like just having a reason that you're alive.

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Speaker 2: Is that's your purpose? I think that's you got to

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Speaker 2: have that, man, And I just hate to think that

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Speaker 2: anybody doesn't feel like they have a purpose in life,

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Speaker 2: especially like I get it, you go through like chunks

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Speaker 2: of life, like say your early twenties where you're like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, everybody else is more successful than me,

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Speaker 2: and my life is off the rails already and I'm

401
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Speaker 2: only twenty years old. Everybody goes through that, so I

402
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Speaker 2: can see like going through phases where you are lacking

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Speaker 2: purpose or maybe direction is another way to put it.

404
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Speaker 2: But like later in life, to just feel like you've

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Speaker 2: never had a purpose in life. I can't bear to

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Speaker 2: think that people feel like that that anybody out there does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, stress reduction is another reducing stress. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why that's funny, but you know, taking trips

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Speaker 1: with your family, hanging out with your friends is kind

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Speaker 1: of what I was talking about earlier with the social interaction, right,

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Speaker 1: and also get a lot of sleep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very important too. There was there's one that

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Speaker 2: Buttener lists that that Poulane doesn't. It's a religious faith.

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Speaker 2: Apparently they interviewed two hundred and sixty three centenarians together,

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Speaker 2: and all except five of them belonged to some sort

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Speaker 2: of church or religion or faith based community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Surprisingly, most of them were flying spaghetti Monster followers, So

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Speaker 2: you might want to look into that for longevity too.

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Speaker 1: Family first is another tenant. You know, live close to

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Speaker 1: your family, care for your old get together with your

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Speaker 1: family one. So you know, we're both kind of screwed. Sure,

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Speaker 1: what else, strong social circles That sort of ties into

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Speaker 1: the other things we were talking about. But yeah, you

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Speaker 1: got to have those strong social ties. What about taking shots,

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Speaker 1: like taking a shot at your friend or taking a

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Speaker 1: shot of whiskey.

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Speaker 2: Taking a shot of booze, doing shots.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, they they used to say

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Speaker 1: that a couple of drinks a day, a couple of

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Speaker 1: glasses of wine, like in Sardinia, Italy is you know

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing they do. They have wine with

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Speaker 1: food even during the daytime. They've now kind of gone

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Speaker 1: back and said no amount of the World Health Organization

435
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 1: at least saying no amount of alcohol is good for

436
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: your health. So that was that was a disappointing finding.

437
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another one that Pooh that Pooh Lane

438
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: leaves off of his seven principles.

439
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: He's French.

440
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really saying something because they love the wine.

441
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: I know they like the wine. Yeah, So you mentioned

442
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: Saul Justin Newman, who is the leading critic, I guess

443
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: of all of this. He says like, yeah, Buttener has

444
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: turned this into a lifestyle brand and that smacks of

445
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: all sorts of you know, questionable stuff as far as

446
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 2: science goes. He goes even further than that. He says

447
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: the entire thing is based on a faulty premise and

448
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: that there are no blue zones. There are no clusters

449
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: of centenarians who live in areas and live a longer

450
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: life because of these lifestyle decisions and choices and things

451
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: that they do. It just doesn't exist. That essentially the

452
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: people who study this have been misled by their own

453
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: data and that's what is producing what seems like these

454
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,719
Speaker 2: blue zones.

455
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just in case you're wondering, he's a senior

456
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: research fellow at the Center for Longitudinal Studies at the

457
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: University of College of London, and he kind of starts

458
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: out by saying, like, hey, we noticed one thing. State

459
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: issued birth certificates are really important, and eighty two percent

460
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: of the super centenarians, and those are people over one

461
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: hundred were born before they started doing this widely basically,

462
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: so if we really had the real birth certificates of

463
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: these people, that number of people living beyond one hundred

464
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: drops way way down, Like essentially everyone's lying about their age.

465
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, or miss mistaken about their age, but yeah, a

466
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: lot of people apparently lie about their age also, Chuck.

467
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: One of the other things that he pointed out is

468
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 2: that if you study areas, especially in developed countries like Italy, England,

469
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: and France. I think he specifically looked at in areas

470
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: with the biggest clusters of super centenarians, right, so, yeah,

471
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 2: I guess that's one hundred and one on. Yeah, So

472
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: those areas also tend to be more poverty stricken, the

473
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 2: people have people living there make lower incomes, they have

474
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 2: lower literacy rates, higher crime rates, very tellingly fewer ninety

475
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: year olds, which is a big statistical anomaly because it

476
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 2: suggests that people are just jumping into their hundreds. Who

477
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: wants to be like, I'm ninety two when you could

478
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: be like I'm one hundred and two, right, Yeah, And

479
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: that they also have very paradoxically lower than average life expectancies.

480
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 2: So if you put all that together, like you're like,

481
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: how is anybody living into their hundreds in these areas,

482
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 2: let alone hold clusters of people living into their hundreds

483
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: don't make sense. I think Saul Newman's quote feels hinky.

484
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Right, I think so. What he concluded was that in play,

485
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: in these places that might have high poverty, you're more

486
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: likely to find what's called pension fraud. So it's family

487
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: members saying, no, you know, Grandpa Chuck is still alive

488
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: in the back room, keep those pension checks rolling in,

489
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: and that's the thing. In twenty ten, there were more

490
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: than two hundred and thirty thousand Japanese centenarians who were

491
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: discovered to be either made up, dead or missing.

492
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Greece also started investigating their centenarians and

493
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: ended up finding two hundred thousand people who no longer

494
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: were alive. So that's definitely part of it. Another statistical

495
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: anomaly that he points out that is very suggestive of

496
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: this whole thing being wrong is that if you look

497
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: at the birthdays for super centenarians, their birthdays aren't statistically random.

498
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: They seem to be clustered around the first of the month.

499
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: There's a much higher, I think of one hundred and

500
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: fifty percent higher chance that a centenarian's birthday is on

501
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: the first of the month than on the last of

502
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: the month, which makes zero sense statistically speaking.

503
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 1: It's like when I fill out any like tell us

504
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: your age thing, I just go January.

505
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: First, exactly, So do I we have the same birthday,

506
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: same fake birthday.

507
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: That's right. Here's another one is that And this is

508
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: sort of part of the basis of his whole thing

509
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: is just that, like, these records are often wrong. They're very,

510
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: very common in the United States, and this was in

511
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. Sixty Six percent of non white females had

512
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: multiple official ages in the year nineteen sixty and their

513
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 1: ages vary depending on what, like what record you were

514
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: looking at, whether it was like the DMV or a

515
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: marriage certificate or birth certificate. And thirty percent of these

516
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: variations were off by more than a decade.

517
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he also drilled down a little more and

518
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: he said some of these lifestyle claims in diet claims,

519
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: they're not supported by data. In fact, the Okinawan cohort

520
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: are they were basically said to have this amazing diet

521
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: where that's probably a big part of what was helping

522
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: them live longer. He said, no, if you've asked the

523
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: government of Japan, people in Okinawa eat the least amount

524
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 2: of vegetables of Japanese people as a whole, and they

525
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: have the highest body mass index. So explain that, Poulane.

526
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: All right, maybe we should take our second break. See

527
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: Pooline response to your call out. Okay, yeah, he might

528
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: give us a ring and we'll be back right after

529
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: this to finish up on blue zones. All right, so

530
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: we're back. When we last left you, Newman had sort

531
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: of launched a I don't know about an attack, but

532
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: put out a paper that countered a lot of these

533
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: claims about blue zones being a thing. It's a big

534
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: splash in the media, and so Blues owners got together

535
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: and they said, all right, we're going to write a

536
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: letter back to you defending our work like we will

537
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: not this will not stand.

538
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say Newman doesn't seem to think

539
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: that Poolene is some hack or liar.

540
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Poline.

541
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: Is a well respected demographer instead. I think what Newman

542
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: is saying is there are errors in the records that

543
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 2: Poulaine is using, right, and once it's in there, when

544
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: another record gets made from the original record, it gets

545
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: it just spreads like a virus essentially, And so he's

546
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: basically saying Polaine is using these this faulty, these faulty

547
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: records without realizing it, and so that an error introduced

548
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: into your data would be totally undetectable in that So

549
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: he's not attacking Pouline specifically, yeah, saying like this the

550
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: data itself is wrong from the get go.

551
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, which kind of even negates some of the rebuttal,

552
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: because some of the points of the rebuttal were like, Hey,

553
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: we know that there are errors in fraud, but we

554
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: go through a pretty rigorous verification process and we think

555
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: it's statistically sound. Like in Sardinia, you know Italy, that

556
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: was one of the first Blue zones named. They said,

557
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, we have civil databases dating back to eighteen

558
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: sixty six, we have church archives, We've got these handwritten records,

559
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: and we have done full genealogies of entire villages and

560
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: cross check this stuff. So again, you know, Poulin is

561
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: trying to do the right thing. But Newman would probably

562
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: go back and say, yeah, but those original records from

563
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six weren't right.

564
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then Pooline would counter, yes, I'm not just

565
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: using one record. I crossed verify, so he Yeah, interviews

566
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: the centenarians first and their families. That's where he gets

567
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: the original age. And then he goes back and tries

568
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: to find any support that he can for that, and

569
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: he actually came up with a rating system of how

570
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: like how quality of verification is. I think there's a

571
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: starring system. There's also like a A plus plus plus

572
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: or something system where like the highest quality of verification

573
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: is the centenarian saying their age, and you've got all

574
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: these other documents that say the exact same thing, and

575
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: that there, you know, a church record is not necessarily

576
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 2: going to be based on you know, a birth certificate

577
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: or an army registration or something like that. So that's

578
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: pretty independent. And then he takes it even further and says,

579
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: you want to do the same thing for the family members,

580
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: for their parents, for their siblings, and make sure that

581
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: along the way somebody with a similar name didn't get

582
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: mixed up, and that that's how their age got older

583
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: and older and older. He's doing like legit methodology, So

584
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: it is kind of tough to just kind of dismiss

585
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: that particular thing, the techniques he has for verifying ages.

586
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Another rebuttal was that hey, Newman a

587
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: lot of the fraud and errors that you're citing weren't

588
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: even in blue zones. You're just saying that that happened,

589
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, if it's happening elsewhere, it's probably

590
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: happening in blue zones as well. Would be my counter

591
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: to that, but you know that was what they came

592
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: back with.

593
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: Well. Also in his paper, he does investigate actual blue

594
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: zones like the Nakoya Peninsula and Costa Rica. Apparently, Costa

595
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: Rica found out in two thousand and eight that forty

596
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: two percent of its population age ninety nine or older

597
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: misstated their age in the two thousand census, and that

598
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: when they went back and did the math to actually

599
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: adjust it to reality, the blue zone in Nikoya shrunk

600
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: by ninety percent. So he did demonstrate that, yes, these

601
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: some of these blue zones are just absolutely wrong.

602
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got a little personal, it feels like, at

603
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: the end because they said, and also, you're not a demographer,

604
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: and your paper wasn't peer reviewed or it wasn't published

605
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: in a peer review journal that is.

606
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: And everyone says, your breath stings.

607
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: Right, and your user are a nitwit.

608
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: Right. Although he was working at the Center for Longitudinal

609
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: Studies by definition, he was a professional studier of studies

610
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: and going back and recreating studies to find out how

611
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: valid they were. So he might not have been a demographer,

612
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: but he was definitely qualified to evaluate the quality of

613
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: a study for sure.

614
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Dave helped us with this, and he found

615
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: a New York Times article from twenty twenty four and

616
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: this kind of, I think for me, kind of makes

617
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. It was from It was a

618
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: quote from doctor nir Barzilai is I guess how you

619
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: pronounce it. Sure, he's a director of the Institute for

620
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: Aging Research at the album of Einstein College of Medicine.

621
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, eat all these

622
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: good foods, stay physical, supportive, friends and family. I think

623
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: we can all agree that you'll live longer. But his

624
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: quote is, are the concepts of blue zones consistent with

625
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: what we know about aging? Absolutely, But the blue zones

626
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: themselves and the theories behind them have not necessarily been

627
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: validated scientifically. It's not a study, it's an observation. It's

628
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: an observation which is consistent with what we think we

629
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: know about aging. And that's kind of where I landed.

630
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: Was like, just say that, say Hey, we've noticed this

631
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: really interesting thing, and these are the commonalities for people

632
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: that live longer in these areas, rather than trying to say, like,

633
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: this is a blue zone and this is the data

634
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: and the science behind it. You know.

635
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, there have been plenty of studies on blue zones

636
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: and blue zone inhabitants. There's a this kind of meta

637
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: analysis that was published in twenty twenty two the American

638
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 2: Journal of Lifestyle Medicine by Magdaleni at All. I still

639
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: don't know what at all means, but you know what

640
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: it generally means by context.

641
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: Right, and others I think, sure, yeah, sure.

642
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: But it examined essentially each of those lifestyle you know,

643
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 2: power nine or seven principles and the studies that support those.

644
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: And there have been like really granular studies. They referenced

645
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: some that studied elderly Akarians remember Akaria, Greece was one

646
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 2: of the blue zones, studied their grip strength, studied their

647
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: flow mediated dilation, which is a marker of the health

648
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: of your endothelial cells, which make up the lining of

649
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: your blood vessels. Like, people have really studied this, and

650
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: a lot of those studies have come back and been like, yes,

651
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: these people have better than average grip strength. Their flow

652
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 2: mediated dilation is off the charts. You've never seen anything

653
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: like it. Everybody says it's just amazing, So there has

654
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: there have been studies that support it. It's just like

655
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: I think people people brush it off because it is

656
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: very easy to brush off. I kind of landed where

657
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: you did where if you take it as a whole, Yeah,

658
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: it does seem to be great, you know, great indicators,

659
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: great ideas of how to live. But the science is

660
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: being conducted. It's just not there where somebody's like, yes,

661
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 2: definitively these are right, and these aren't right too.

662
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. As far as Butner and Pulan, they

663
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: both agree that they think that blue zones are disappearing

664
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: like quickly and like there won't be any at a

665
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: certain point, which is I thought people were living longer,

666
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: so I was kind of curious about that. But they're

667
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: finding fewer centenarians in Okinawa and other places, and they

668
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: they say it's the widespread adoption of Western diet. Newman

669
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: came back. I feel like every time they like, he's

670
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: got a Google alert set for these guys. Yeah. Newman

671
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: came back and said, and I tend to agree with

672
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: him here, He's like, that does it make any sense

673
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: to me? He's like, are all these eighty year olds

674
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: suddenly giving up a lifetime of healthy eating habits and

675
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: going to McDonald's. Right, just doesn't make sense. So he

676
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: goes back again to the record keeping and saying it

677
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: was it was never that to begin.

678
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 2: With, right, He Yeah, it doesn't. It just doesn't. Yeah,

679
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: it doesn't track. So if they do exist, though, one

680
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: thing that Bautener and Pulane definitely agree on is uh

681
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: and actually Newman too, is that they're they're not going

682
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: to find anymore and the ones that do exist are

683
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: going to shrink out to basically nothing. It's just different

684
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: explanations of why that is. But you can kiss blue

685
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: zones goodbye, basically.

686
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well you found some interesting stuff on genetics too,

687
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: because that's kind of the one thing we haven't talked

688
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: about is diet, exercise, being around your family and all

689
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: that stuff is great, but genetics like probably have to

690
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 1: play a part, right.

691
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they found you would think so for sure,

692
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: And they have found some stuff that says like, yes, this,

693
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: the genes definitely do appear in certain populations more than others,

694
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: like the Sardinians have a gene that makes them bitter

695
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: super tasters I think, and it's related to a lower

696
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: fat intake, like you avoid fats, so that's sensing.

697
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: I think it's associated with like living longer that specific gene.

698
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: Right, So that makes a lot of sense. Okay, that

699
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: would definitely help you live longer. But then there's other

700
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: contradictory evidence that is kind of confounding.

701
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think people one hundred and ten years are older. Wow.

702
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: In Okinawa they had a slightly increased likelihood of possessing

703
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: a gene variant that makes them more like likely to

704
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: develop Alzheimer's compared to I think it was in Greece,

705
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: that part of Greece that had the gene that supposedly

706
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: protected against Alzheimer's, and they found the opposite to be

707
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: true in Okinawa.

708
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: Right, and yet they're both Blue Zone super centenarian.

709
00:39:58,719 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, therea is.

710
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, but surely it does have to play

711
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: some sort of role. And I think in that original paper,

712
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 2: Pas and pooh Land speculated that inbreeding in that area

713
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 2: of Sardinia was responsible for creating these essentially protective traits.

714
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: M There you have it.

715
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 2: Either way, the Sardinians were like, please, what are you doing?

716
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's out of our business. Let me drink my

717
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: lunch wine and peace.

718
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: Well, supposedly, there are plenty of areas in the world

719
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: to contact Buttener and pooh Land and are like, hey,

720
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: make sure you put us down as a blue zone

721
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: because it attracts a lot of like healthy lifestyle tourists.

722
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And again, I mean, I don't know

723
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: why this bugs me a little bit more than usual.

724
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: I think it's great that they put out like tips

725
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: for living longer, but there's something about like when it's

726
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: marketed and branded that kind of I don't know.

727
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: I get you for sure, you know what I mean. Yep,

728
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 2: I'm with you, man. Although if you live the blue

729
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: Zone lifestyle and your love and life to talk to you, Yeah,

730
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: trademark evan to health. Since Chuck laughed a second ago,

731
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: that's a traditional trigger for listener man, that's right.

732
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: This is about circular economy and us complaining about appliances

733
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 1: not lasting long. Hey, guys have something to say about this.

734
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: One thing that people should do is maintenance on the

735
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: products that they buy.

736
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

737
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: The fact that Chuck hates washers and dryers is because

738
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times products break down due to a

739
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: lack of maintaining and caring for these products. I'm a

740
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: home improvement contractor and I can't tell you how many

741
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: times I've moved appliances to see the total lack of

742
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: care that these products go through. It's not just washers

743
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: and dryers, but most things in your home that you buy.

744
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: People fail to one read the instructions and two read

745
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: how to care for the products. Yeah, I just thought

746
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: that's the way. That's a good point, though, a lot

747
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: of things need to require you to clean maintain them

748
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: so they do last longer. Take for example, the clothes washer.

749
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: It has three different Our clothes washer has three different

750
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: small filters that need to be cleaned out once a month.

751
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: What cheez, And if you don't, eventually it'll break down

752
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: the washer. My point being, if you take just a

753
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: little time and save and read those manuals, you'll help

754
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: them last longer. And you want to have to throw

755
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: away stuff that breaks and wears down. I love the episode,

756
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: and I do one hundred percent agree that products are

757
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: made to be thrown out in replace. I just wanted

758
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: to add that as up to us as consumers to

759
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: do our best to keep the products that we buy

760
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: running the best that we can. That's my two bits.

761
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: That is from Justin and Justin, you are so right,

762
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: and I shamefully never ever maintain much of anything like that.

763
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: That's funny that Justin wrote that in because just yesterday

764
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: I was cleaning the evaporator condenser quotes, I can't remember

765
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 2: some coils in my fridge, okay, and look at you. Well,

766
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: my fridge is not working very well. So I was

767
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: really hoping that this was the problem. Bob Vila said

768
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 2: it was probably going to be the problem. But in

769
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 2: that same article that on Bob Vila's website, he says

770
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: that you should do that. You should clean and dust

771
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: your refrigerator's coils every three months.

772
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Those are in the back of the fridge, right.

773
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they're in the front bottom, but they make brushes.

774
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: I got brushes for it and everything that make the

775
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: whole thing easy. But I'm like I have this is

776
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: the first time I've ever done anything like this, and

777
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: I've had plenty of fridges, so it makes me wonder

778
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: how much longer other fridges could have lasted.

779
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure that's true, but oh boy, I

780
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: don't want to see what's under and behind my fridge

781
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: at this point. It's scary.

782
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to go look for the filters in

783
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: my washing machine that I never knew existed, because I

784
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: kind of I get jazzed by that kind of thing.

785
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like me, after a while,

786
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm tired of doing this.

787
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: I changed my air filters and things. HVAC.

788
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: You mean. I looked at a house once and these

789
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 2: two dudes owned it and I was like asking where

790
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: the air handler was and the guy didn't know, and

791
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: I was like, you know where you put the air filter.

792
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: He's like, I don't think our system uses air filters.

793
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 2: And I was like, dude, And we drove past the

794
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: house the next day and there was an HVAC truck

795
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,959
Speaker 2: in the driveway, so I guess turned them onto the

796
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: existence of their air filters.

797
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, I actually do mind myself because it's

798
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: not too hard. But yeah, yeah, fir sure, that's as

799
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: far as I go, and I should go further, for sure.

800
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:33,959
Speaker 2: Are you cleaning out your drain lines?

801
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 1: That's another big one, uh drain line for what.

802
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: For your HVAC the little the little white PVC line

803
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: that's like running from your air handler where you put

804
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: the air filter. Huh, there's a there's so this is.

805
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: This drains the condensation from your air handler. And you

806
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: should use about an eighth of a cup of just

807
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: regularly simple green mix in with a gallon of water,

808
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: get yourself a funnel, pour it in there, let it

809
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: come out the bottom. You do that once a month

810
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: during the hot months, and it will keep your drainline

811
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 2: from getting clogged up with gunk.

812
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm shamefully lazy about anything like that. I'm so

813
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: bad at maintenance.

814
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: I'll come over and show you. It'll be fine. We'll

815
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 2: make an afternoon of maintaining stuff around your house. You

816
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 2: buy you with subs.

817
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, I was about to say, I'll bring the subs,

818
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: you bring the simple green, and we'll party.

819
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 2: All right, man, that sounds like a great idea. Well,

820
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: thanks for this, Justin, you really just kicked off a

821
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: new tradition for me and Chuck monthly, I would say.

822
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: And if you want to be like Justin and kick

823
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: off a new monthly tradition for me and Chuck, you

824
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: can send us an email to send it off to

825
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know

826
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio.

827
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

828
00:45:54,040 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.