WEBVTT - Bonus: An interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.199 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and welcome to Next Question. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.680 For a special edition of Next Question, I had a 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:15.160 wonderful conversation with Dr Anthony Faucci. Dr Faucci, how are 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.920 you fine? Thank you? How are you? This has been 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.320 an unprecedented time in our nation's history. The country, and 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.440 in fact the world, was already losing faith in science. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.560 But Dr Faucci has been a much needed bomb, a 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.800 sav of sorts for our wounded spirit, and he has 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:40.960 helped emphasize the importance of science and facts. The nation's 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.760 top infectious disease expert has also become something of a celebrity. 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.680 You can buy Dr Fauci mugs, t shirt, socks, bobble heads, 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.880 you name it. Brad Pitt even landed an Emmy nomination 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.040 for playing him on SNL. And when I hear things 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.160 like the virus can be cured if everyone takes the 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:01.000 tide Pod challenge, I'll be there to say please don't. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:05.000 So far, the coronavirus has infected more than six million 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.319 Americans and killed one hundred and eighty seven thousand, and 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.800 As we head into the fall, health officials are bracing 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.520 to battle what could be in fact a twin demic 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.080 as the virus outbreak collides with blue season. I spoke 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.600 with Dr Fauci about how we can best protect ourselves, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.160 where we are in the race to find a vaccine, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.120 what you should know about sending your kids to school, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.600 and whether the world has entered a pandemic era. But 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.640 first he explained why our behavior through Labor Day weekend 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.520 could have a real impact on how the coronavirus spreads 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:46.000 throughout the next few months. We're approaching Labor Day, and 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.000 I know you've urged people to continue to exercise caution 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.160 and not to have sort of pandemic fatigue. We saw 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.760 surge after Memorial Day and the Fourth of July holiday weekends. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.400 But you've also said, Dr Vauchi, the way we handle 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.760 Labor Day will determine what the virus does over the 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.440 fall months. What exactly did you mean by that? When 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.480 you go into the fall, as the weather starts to 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.920 chill and more people will be spending indoors, then that 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.160 is a perfect setup for a resurgence of cases. The 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.680 point that I was making, Katie is that right now 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.200 we are at a baseline that in my mind is 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:30.119 unacceptably high, where at about forty cases per day. If 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.400 you look at some of the European countries and even 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.519 some states and cities in the United States, when you 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:40.040 peaked up and you come down to a very low baseline, 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.280 when you get individual cases, you can much better control 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:48.400 them then when you have twenty cases. So the point 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.120 I was making about Labor Day is that if we 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.520 can prevent the surge of Labor Day and keep the 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.360 cases coming down and down, which if you look at 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.839 the map of the country, for the most part, we've 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.000 got hit badly, and then we turned it around. We 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.760 got hit badly, and then the most recent one as 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:11.440 you well know, we're in the southern states of Florida, Texas, California, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.280 and Arizona. We've now turned that around. What we do 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.160 not need is another surge. So if we can get 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.440 through the Labor Day weekend and not be up, but 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.720 actually continue to go down, that would be momentum as 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.919 we get into the full of going in the right direction. 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.480 So that's really what I meant by that statement. And 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.120 so you were worried that if people get complacent that 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.680 the numbers will go up. Is that what happened in Europe, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.360 Dr Fauci, because they're reporting the highest numbers or the 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.320 highest number of cases they've seen since March. Right, Yeah, 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.640 that's true. And what happened is that they actually, interestingly, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:56.200 did a really good job of locking down much more 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.800 thoroughly actually than we did, which may be the reason 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:02.839 why when they went down to a baseline, they were 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.600 way lower than we were. What we have to worry 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.880 about and guard against is what's happening right now in 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.520 some countries in Europe, and that is, you know, shut 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.000 down fatigue. They just felt they were shut down so 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.240 long that instead of prudently and carefully trying to open 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.800 up their economy, they did what many of us in 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.000 the United States did when you looked at the pictures 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.200 of people crowding around bars, they went to the other extreme. So, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.839 getting back to what you just asked me a little 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:39.080 while ago about the Labor Day weekend, we don't want 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.280 people to lock themselves in a closet for Labor Day 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.560 weekend at all. You want to get outside. You can 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.400 have fun as long as you do some fundamental public 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:54.280 health principles. Wearing a mask, physical distance, avoid crowd, and 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.840 for goodness sakes, anything that you could possibly do outside 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.200 as opposed to inside keep it outside. If you do that, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.640 we know from experience that you won't see surges, you 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:11.320 will be able to contain any outbreak. The CDC has 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.159 asked states to prepare for a coronavirus vaccine to be 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.160 ready to distribute by November, and I'm wondering, Dr Faucer, 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:24.480 are you concerned about fast tracking a vaccine before clinical 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.960 trials are completed. I wouldn't say I'm concerned. I'm I'm 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.880 I'm I'm fairly certain that that's not going to happen, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.440 because we know I mean, and I've made this statement, 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.160 Katie multiple times over the months, that it is likely 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.640 that we will know if we have a safe and 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.440 effective vaccine by the end of this coundar year November 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.480 or December, so that we could have vaccine doses by 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.480 the end, and as we go into one, it is 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.080 conceivable that we may do it earlier. I mean, there's 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.760 no you can't rule that out, because if you have 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.640 a lot of infections within an area where they're actually 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.680 testing the vaccine, you could get an answer earlier than 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.160 November and December. So I'm not ruling out the possibility 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.800 that we might know at the end of October. But 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.760 there's no guarantee. In fact, if I would predict, I 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.160 would say that that is unlikely. It's not impossible, but unlikely. 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:24.800 So the CDC saying they're preparing for that eventuality, I 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.920 don't think that should be interpreted that anything is going 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.719 to be rushed. I think it should be interpreted that 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.520 just in case we're lucky enough to get an early answer, 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.000 we want to be ready for it. That's really what 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.919 they meant, even if it indicates so Dr Fauci, it 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.479 might be effective. I mean, there's a reason there's a 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.680 phase one, two, and three clinical trial right our process, 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.520 and and shouldn't all those phases be completed? I mean, 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.080 do you think it's okay to put a drug on 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.120 the marketplace of phase three clinical trials have not been 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.039 not taken place? Well, you know, there is a little 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.320 bit of a nuance and a subtlety there that I 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.240 think people need to understand. First of all, I completely 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.200 agree with you, and I'll confirm what I've said before. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.400 I will not be satisfied until our vaccine that we 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:15.360 allow to be distributed among the American public has to 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:20.240 be both safe and effective. Both safe and effective, but 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.440 A potential scenario would be is that as you're testing 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.160 the vaccine, we have a data and safety Monitoring board, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.760 which is an independent board of people who incommittently look 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.600 at the data to see if it is too bad 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.960 or too good. Namely, you might want to interrupt the 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:44.040 trial before you finished the actual um observation over the 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.160 predetermined time. So what could happen is that you look 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.840 at the data and the independent group may say, you know, 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.640 we have enough data to know that this is actually 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.200 an effective vaccine and it looks pretty safe, so let's 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.400 get it to the American people by mechanism called by 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.520 an emergency use authorization. That doesn't mean you stop the trial. 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.200 It means that you could make the vaccine available to 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.120 certain people who could benefit from it the most, like 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.440 first line responders or healthcare workers or people at the 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:23.160 same time as you're gathering additional safety information. So you 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.960 don't have to call the trial off. But that would 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.720 be a very special situation. I'd want to make sure 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.600 that when that decision is made, it's made really on 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.400 the basis of efficacy. A lot of people say they 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.480 would not take the vaccine um that that they just 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.120 don't feel comfortable, and I'm curious would you take it? 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.640 And what about the people who say they're not interested 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.360 in taking it? And are you worried this is going 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.920 to fuel the anti vax movement? Dr Kalki. Okay, so 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.920 let's start off with your first question, Katie, if if 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.640 if the vaccine, which in my mind, it would have 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.880 to be the following if we if we allow it 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.320 to be given to the American public, it would have 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.720 to be proven and scientifically sound study to be both 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.839 safe and effective. If that occurs, and I'm cautiously optimistic 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.240 that it will, I would readily take the vacccine, and 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.960 I would recommend that my family takes the vaccine. The 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.440 second question that you have is am I concerned about 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.560 people not wanting to take the vaccine? I am, because 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.760 you know there is an underlying current in this country 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.640 that goes back to measles and other vaccines that people 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.320 are skeptical about taking a vaccine. And I think the 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.560 best way to get around that is to do good 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:45.240 community outreach, be very transparent about the data, Let all 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.160 the decision making process be open and easily discussed, so 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.719 people can see that when we say it's safe and effective. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.120 It really is safe and effective. And what are you 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.320 hearing about it? Dr Fauci. Obviously you're talking to some 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.480 of these companies. Are you hearing that it's it's very promising? 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.640 Are you hearing that it's going to work on everyone? 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.240 Will there have to be a booster shot? Can you 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.079 give us some insight into those questions? Yeah? No, Well 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.079 I'm very heavily involved in that, Katie, because I mean, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.760 at least a couple of the vaccines, we were very 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.760 much involved in developing and implementing the clinical trial. So 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.920 if you, for example, the trials that are in phase 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:28.560 three now, particularly the MODERNA trial and the trial from 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.760 Fiser and to some extent the trial from from a 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.240 Z that when you look at the phase one trial, now, 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.360 phase one is a relatively small number of people. That's 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.640 the reason why, as you said, correctly, you want to 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.800 go to phase two and phase three. But in the 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.720 phase one trial, I looked at the data very carefully, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.320 and it's published now in the medical literature that the 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:55.880 induction of a response in the volunteers was really quite promising. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.520 It was a robust response, that it was at least 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.599 as good or even better than the kind of response 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.040 you get from natural infection, and one of the tenants 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.120 of vaccine development is that you'd like to do as 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:16.520 well as natural infection does in inducing a protective response. Still, 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.240 at least with that limited amount of data, I would 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.559 say that I'm cautiously optimistic that we're on a good 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:28.360 path to getting to where we want to be. We'll 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:40.240 have more with Dr Anthony Fauci right after this. You know, 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.280 it seems that people of color are not being uh shown, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.200 are not being represented in the current US vaccine trials 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.040 Black and Latino people, despite the fact that those communities, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.839 as you well know, Dr Fauci, have been hardest hit 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.880 by this virus. Is there any way to remedy that 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.200 late in the process. It's not too late. The trials 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.400 are more than half enrolled. We know that they're close 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.720 to twenty thousand out of the thirty thousand individuals in 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.480 the trials. You know, for goodness sakes and the Lord 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.960 knows that we're trying, we really do want to get 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.280 African Americans and Latin X and other minorities in the trial. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.400 We're doing better with Latino X than we all with 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.040 African Americans. I still want to get the percentage in 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.480 the trial of African Americans higher than it is right now. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.520 You know, there's understandable skepticism on the part of that 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.560 demographic group when it comes to vaccines. They have not 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.320 historically been treated well by government research endeavors. We know 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.440 that that's a sad part of our history. We have 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.160 to get over that, and that's the reason why we're 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:55.800 employing every manner of community outreach to get the African 0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:00.720 American population to appreciate that they need to get vaccinated 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.320 for precisely the reasons you just mentioned. A. They have 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.240 a greater chance of getting infected by the basis of 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.400 the jobs that they find themselves in. It's much less 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.840 likely they're going to be sitting in front of a computer. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.360 They likely will be in first line jobs where they're 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.640 in physical contact with people. So they have a risk 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.240 that's greater than the general population of getting infected. And importantly, 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.840 when they do get infected, they have the underlying conditions 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.079 to a greater extent than the rest of the population, 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.240 which makes it more likely that they will have a 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:43.559 severe outcome of infection, and that's hypertension, obesity, diabetes, chronic 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:48.360 renal disease, chronic lung disease. It's very unfortunate. Those are 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.640 social determinants of health that are decades in the making. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.360 We can't do anything about that. But what we can 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.920 do apropos of what you just asked, is we can 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.400 get them vaccinated to prevent that from happening to them. 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.800 Stand Up to Cancer, which I founded twelve years ago, 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.840 has a whole new health equity initiative where we're trying 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.160 to get more people of color involved in clinical cancer 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:17.240 clinical trials. And I think it's the medical community really 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.160 is has just woken up, I think, to this disparity 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.440 and how critically it important it is to have representation 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.040 in these clinical trials. So if we can just make 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.280 sure that people, let you know, people of color, know 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.160 that these trials are happening and encourage them to participate, 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.240 that would be a really positive thing for for everyone. 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.720 Are you concerned that the US has decided not to 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:49.080 not to cooperate with the WHO to equitably distribute this vaccine? Uh? 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.680 You know, I mean, obviously I have been a proponent 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.680 for decades of equitable distribution of vaccine. I think that 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.880 is going to happen, and in fact, we will almost certainly, Katie, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.560 participate in that distribution to other countries, even though it 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:10.000 isn't part of the official WHO effort, because if you 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.880 look at the dosage is that we have pre purchased, 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:18.520 it goes well beyond the number required for the United States. 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.359 So the end of the day, what's going to functionally 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.400 happen anyway, is that we're going to be participating in 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.600 that type of distribution. You know, this has been such 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.440 a stressful time, Dr Fauci. I know you've you've addressed 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.040 this in other interviews for parents and for students, whether 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.120 they're in kindergarten or headed off to college. And I 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.960 know that your alma mater, Holy Cross, decided to go 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:46.360 entirely online after previously creating an in person back to 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.240 school plan, And I'm just curious, did you help advise 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.880 the university and is that an indicator in your mind 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.840 that other colleges and university should follow their lead. You 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.760 know it's going to be but that's a great question, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.840 and it's really going to be different, and from university 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:06.160 to university, depending upon the capability of a particularly institution 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.520 to be able to handle students who ultimately get infected. So, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.360 for example, several of the universities, some of which I've 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:19.000 actually had the opportunity to be an informal adviser, to 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.400 have a system where they essentially test everybody before they 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.440 come in. Then they do intermittent surveillance testing. The critical 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:31.600 issue that we're emphasizing now that some universities have done it, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.600 not optimally and not I don't mean to blame them, 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.960 but now we know what to do is that when 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.480 the students at the university level get infected, you don't 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.560 want to send them home, because when you send them home, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.520 they essentially go into a house, infect their family, go 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.760 and infect their community. Because university students, as we all know, 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.400 come from all different parts of the country. So if 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.400 you bring them in they get infected, then you send 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.240 them home, you're essentially spreading it. So what many of 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.760 the universities they're doing now are providing for places either 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.840 a dorm, an entire dorm, or a couple of fours 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.639 for a dorm, so that when a student gets infected, 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.119 you could safely and comfortably sequester them from the rest 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.240 of the student body without necessarily sending them home. I mean, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.480 I just had a conversation a little while ago as 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.720 did Dr Burghs with Tommy Thompson, who's the president of 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:35.119 the University of Wisconsin and exactly my former boss for 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.960 several years. And what Tommy has done is a really 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.240 very interesting way of testing the students, having surveillance and 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.280 if you get infected, putting them in a sequested way 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.080 where you don't have to send them home. Many of 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.399 the colleges are doing that. That's interesting. So the latter 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.280 thing is actually as important as the testing protocol itself, 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.680 to make sure you have a place to put infected 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.280 students where they're not going to affect other students or 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.080 return to their homes. That's exactly correct, and I think 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.720 that's a really important point. You know, when it comes 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.239 to K through twelve, Dr Fauci, it seems like there 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.679 aren't clear procedures across the board for for returning to 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.640 in person learning. And I just feel like through this 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.960 whole pandemic there's been it's been so inconsistent, and I 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.960 realized certain situations call for different measures, but without kind 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.399 of these broad guidelines, it seems like that could be 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.680 a recipe for disaster. No, uh, indeed, So let's try 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.240 and see if you and I can be some consistent 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.520 here and see if we could help out. So I 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.480 think one of the reasons for this perception of inconsistency, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.399 if not reality of inconsistency, is that we live in 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.879 a really big country and it's very heater a genious 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.679 with regard to the level of infection activity. If you 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.000 look at the map, we have these heat maps Katie, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.639 which you know, light up of its red, it's green, 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.600 it's yellow. So if you're in a part of the 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.480 country where you're what we call a green zone, which 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.920 means the level of infection is really quite low, you 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.679 can proceed with relative impunity and in person teaching in 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.240 the elementary and middle schools with the children. You have 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.320 to have a plan of what you're going to do 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.520 when children get infected, because no matter where you are, 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.360 they are going to get infected. So you don't want 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.320 to open up and then have to close right down. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.480 You want to have a plan. When you get into 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.840 the yellow zone, it becomes a little bit more problematic, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.159 which means that you may have to do some mitigation. 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:41.440 You might have to alternate morning afternoon every other day, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.679 part online, part in person. When you get to a 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.280 red zone, then that becomes really problematic for a number 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.400 of reasons. The level of infection may be so high 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.520 in the community that it would really be imprudent to 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.720 just say, Okay, everybody go back to school. And what 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.080 we're seeing, Katie is something really interesting is that the 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.240 parents and the teachers are really talking with their feet. 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.160 They're not showing up. They're saying, you know, I don't 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.720 really want to go in to a school in a 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.560 red zone. When I'm a teacher that might have an 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.440 underlying condition, I'll do it by virtual, but I don't 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.600 really want to come in. And that's what's actually happening. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.320 You can understand that though, right Dr Fauci, I totally 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.600 empathize with them doing that. I mean, there's no doubt 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.160 about that. You really got to respect teachers who are 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.600 either in a certain age group or who have an 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.639 underlying condition that would put them at risk if you 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.320 want them to go to to teach in person in 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.080 a place where you have a very high level of 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:50.240 infection in that particular community, that is understandable. We'll have 0:20:50.359 --> 0:21:02.760 more with Dr Anthony Fauci right after this. So when 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.240 it comes to testing, and I'm just curious, Dr Fauci. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.720 A lot of my followers and I wondered this as well. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.719 If if a lot of people are asymptomatic, what about 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.280 does it make sense to take people's temperatures because they 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.880 could be without a temperature right if there without a fever, 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.560 if there is symptomatic. Well, this may have some people 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:29.560 disagree with me, but I do not put much uh 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.200 stock in temperature taking. I would much rather when someone 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.240 walks into a place, asked them a few key questions. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.600 In fact, right here at the NIH where I'm sitting 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.440 right now, and out right across like a hundred feet 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:44.919 from where we are right now is the NIH Clinical 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.440 Center hospital where I work, we got rid of temperature 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.240 taking going in right now. We just asked questions to 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.520 screen people for the simple reason of what you exactly 0:21:54.560 --> 0:22:00.720 said about asymptomatic, but also the inaccuracy sometimes of temperature. 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.520 Where you put something next to somebody's head, particularly if 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:08.400 they come out from outside when it's nine three degrees outside, 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.560 you can get some of those positives. The government, as 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.600 you know, is sending out and estimated a hundred and 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:19.600 fifty million Abbot laboratory rapid COVID nineteen tests. But FDA 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.560 experts say in some cases the results may need to 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:25.480 be confirmed with the second test, like a nasal swab. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.320 So um, can you just give us some insight about 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.119 the effectiveness of these fast COVID tests. They're good, Yeah, 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.199 they are good, Katie, I mean, and in fact, it 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:38.760 is a nasal swab, the new Abbott bin ax that 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.640 you're referring to, the hundred and fifty million you're taking 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:43.720 nasal swab. You stick it in a little well, you 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.040 put the card down and it reads out with the band. 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:52.520 It's not only quite specific like nine seven point two, 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:59.439 it's sensitive. That's pretty good. That's good. Why did the 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.280 FDA say that? Then? Dr falc know, you know, I 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.840 can't address that, kid, because I'm not certain what they 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.439 said and why they said it, So I better not comment. 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.320 I'll get myself in trouble. You don't want to do that. 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:13.960 How worried are you, by the way, about flu season 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:19.520 and about handling both a flu epidemic and continuing to 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:24.560 deal with COVID nineteen. Well, what I'm hoping for is 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.520 two things. One extension of what you and I spoke 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:31.200 about a few minutes ago about as we get into 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.920 the full do it on a down slope of COVID 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.399 as opposed to an upstill. But the other thing that 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:40.600 I'm hoping for is that the very public health measures 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.920 that have been targeted to COVID nineteen, I'm gonna mitigate 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:52.680 the impact of a flu season, namely masks, distancing, avoiding crowds, 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.000 staying outside to the extent possible, particularly as we get 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:00.800 into the winter, and washing hands. An interesting fact, Katie, 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.159 is that Australia, which is as you know, in the 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:09.160 Southern Hemisphere and has their flu season during our summer, 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:14.239 have had a very very light flu season and the 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.800 Australian health authorities, many of whom are my friends and colleagues. 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.760 I feel that the reason for that is that they 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:26.600 were practicing public health measures to avoid the coronavirus and 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:32.439 they had the secondary effect you bet, you know, just 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:37.000 an unintended positive consequence. But haven't said that. I just 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.840 want to make sure we're not discouraging people from getting 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:45.000 flu shots. Dr Fauci, absolutely not. As soon as the 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:48.520