1 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: I mean like the early two hundreds, we were like 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the hippie capital of the world. I think Rolling Soon 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: called us the freak capital of the world. And uh, 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: I think we've lost a little bit of the freak sadly. Yeah, hello, 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: and welcome to Savor. I'm any Rees and I'm Lauren 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: vocal Baum. On our recent trip to Asheville, we heard 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: so much enthusiasm and love for the city from the 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: people who we spoke with, and we felt it too. 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: It was pretty infectious. These episodes, by the way, are 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: in no way sponsored or paid for by the City 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: of Asheville or its Tourism board. Part of our mission 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: here on Savor is to travel to interesting places and 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: share with y'all what makes those places interesting and what 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: we might learn from the lives and lifestyles of the 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: people who live there. If it sounded advertorial at times, 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: that's because we found a lot there to be praised. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: But of course not everything we heard was all mac 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: and cheese and frothy beer. Asheville, as a city that's 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: booming because of its restaurants and breweries, is sort of 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: a microcosm for everything the American food and beverage industry 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: is dealing with in general, good and bad. In this episode, 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: we wanted to discuss some of those issues and as 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: part of that, what it means to be counterculture? Yeah, 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: what does that mean? That quote at the top was 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: from beer historian and Fitt and Glenn. While Ashwell might 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: have lost some of its freak, it has not lost 27 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: the reputation for it. We talked about that a little 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: inner overview of Ashville episode, how we, along with superproducer Dylan, 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: had these preconceptions of Asheville as a crunchy hippie haven, which, 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: to be fair, they embrace that drum circle that y'all 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: blessedly did not make me go to shows up in 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: a lot of their marketing. You're just lucky. We had 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: a very limited window for that. Pinball museum pinball over 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: drum circles any day. I agree. I wish we could 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: have done both, but hey, both are percussive. That's true. 36 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: I had considered that we didn't make it to the 37 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: drum circle, but we saw plenty of evidence of this 38 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: hippie ish nous I mean, my goodness, are Airbnb. We 39 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: haven't shared this detail with y'all yet. I think we 40 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: mentioned that, like zen Rock gardens that had but it 41 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: also had this mixed media mural above the car port, 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: which was like front and center when you came up 43 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: the driveway of the eyes of Buddha, sometimes called the 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: Wisdom Eyes or the Omnipresent Eyes. These are big and 45 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: colorful and apparently found on every Buddhist temple and Nepal, 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: and also on this car poard. Yeah, every lift driver 47 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: that picked us up asked if this it was some 48 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: kind of retreat or something. Here's and fittn again. You know. 49 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: I do have numerous hippie friends who are well educated, 50 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: interesting people who have gone into farming or distilleries or breweries, 51 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: things that used to be um much more blue collar 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: type of careers. Warren Wilson College, which is in Swanna, Noah, 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: is kind of a hipp behave in college. It's one 54 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: of those work study colleges, and often students will go 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: there and they'll learn a trade there such as plumbing 56 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: or cultivation, and then they'll stay in the area. So 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: there is definitely a little of that um kind of 58 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: crunchy hippie esthetic, which is fun. The legacy of Ashville's 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: crunchy nature got its start in the nineteen sixties makes 60 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: sense to me when else. Here's the local historian Kevin Fraser. 61 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: In the late sixties and early seventies, we had folks 62 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: moving to Asheville out of places like northern California, you know, 63 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: so called flower children, hippie movement and all that, and 64 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: they were on to Anashville a couple of reasons. One, frankly, 65 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: was cheap to be here, and so for young folks 66 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: looking for a place to be and maybe they're artists, 67 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: or maybe they were interested farming or whatever, they were 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: interested in this sort of jobbed and worked well for them. 69 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: What A Fitton and Kevin are talking about here is 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: the counterculture movement that came up in the nineteen sixties 71 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: of mostly white people from mostly middle class backgrounds who 72 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: have access to education and money, and who used that 73 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: to promote these anti capitalist, anti industrial, pro environment, pro 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: mindful living ideas and ideals. And we did hear time 75 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: and time again from the folks who we were interviewing 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: that a big reason they moved there was because of 77 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: that vibe and because it's the sort of vibe that 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: they wanted to bring up their children in. And the 79 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: vibe definitely shaped the food and drink scene in the city. 80 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: To make this unique, creative, artistic, healthy, crunchy food scene, 81 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: it's weirdness depends on Ashvillians being willing to participate in it, 82 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: to care about who you're supporting, whether your money is 83 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: going to people who support your causes, both in word 84 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: and indeed. And there's a whole sense of community around it. 85 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: And this lends itself to an awareness of social issues 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: that cannot be separated from the food we eat and 87 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: the drinks we drink. So we wanted to talk about 88 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: those today, issues of opportunity and access faced by women, 89 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: people of color, immigrants, and folks with lower incomes. One 90 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: of these issues is a lack of people of color, 91 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: especially in positions of power in the food and beverage industry. 92 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: We talked about this a lot in our old episode 93 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: on tipping, gratuity and restaurants, because the American gratuity system 94 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: is based in post emancipation racism and classism. To hear 95 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: all about that, check out the episode. It's from December 96 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: of TV and it's called the Not So Gratuitous Tipping Episode. 97 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: But okay, a quick yet pertinent takeaway from that, There 98 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: is a four dollar per hour wage gap between white 99 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: workers and workers of color in the restaurant industry at large, 100 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: due to the types of jobs that each tend to get, 101 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: workers of color are more likely to be in lower 102 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: level positions at lower cost to restaurants, and racial discrimination 103 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: and tipping only exacerbates this inequality, and in Asheville, representation 104 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: of people of color is perhaps particularly stark. As we 105 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: mentioned in our beer episode. As of seen, the city 106 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: was eighty two white. This is unusual for a southern city, 107 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: if not necessarily an apple Achian city. Kevin discussed some 108 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: of the history behind this, so you know, inherently Asheville 109 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: has a smaller African American population, even going back to 110 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century history, and part of that had to 111 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: do that there was not significant plantation agriculture in western 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: mark Clina just because the landscape, unlike the eastern partner Makolina, 113 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: where they had these gigantic farms. But that does not 114 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: mean there was not slavery in western carth Carolina. That 115 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: becomes a real misunderstanding, and I think sometimes people want 116 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: to sort of skip them be like, oh, yeah, we 117 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: somehow we're better than that. No. No, as a region, 118 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 1: we had not been better than that, and there were worst, 119 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: but the number was smaller, and that has definitely been 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: part of that inheritance. That said, though, as a Civil 121 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: War we were a very popular city for freedmen to 122 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: relocate to. They were drawn to Asheville looking for new opportunities. 123 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: But one of the challenges that we're very concerned about 124 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: is some of our key areas that have begun to 125 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: see more recent revitalization or new development are adjacent to 126 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: historically African American neighborhoods, and so the gentrification that wraps 127 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: around that is very much a concerning thing for us 128 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,239 Speaker 1: in Ashville, because we don't want success to come create 129 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: failure for somebody else, not of their own doing either. 130 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: That's a lot of the conversation today about how do 131 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: we balance those things in Ashville. I think it's something 132 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: in meeting things around town we are talking about how 133 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: do we as a city make sure that it is 134 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: clear that we are welcoming so for anybody to find 135 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: what they're looking for in Asheville. But I think the 136 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: mentally cities that aren't welcoming will become irrelevant. This particular 137 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: question of how welcoming Southern and Appalachian cities are too 138 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: black and African Americans lies in parallel to the inclusion 139 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: of other people of color, of folks of all sorts 140 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: of descents, whether their families have been here for generations 141 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: or whether they are recent immigrants to the United States. 142 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: We spoke with Merwan or Ronnie, the CEO and chef 143 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: of the Chaipani Restaurant group and a first generation immigrant 144 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: from India. Mirwan was quick to express the stark difference 145 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: between the history and experience of folks like himself in 146 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: contrast to that of black people in America and the South. 147 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: He said that comparing the two directly is unconscionable, and 148 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: I was actually really afraid I'd ruin the interview for 149 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: a minute by asking him about his experience as a 150 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: generalized person of color, but it turned out okay. Um 151 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: and beyond or building on that difference that he talked about, 152 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: he did say that he sees a shift taking place 153 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: all across the South. Mari Juan describes himself as a 154 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: storyteller just as much as a restaurateur, and in his experience, 155 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: Ashville embraces stories what is really interesting to me um 156 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: and and and a reflection of this conversation has been 157 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: happening in this series that I'm being called Brown the South. 158 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: A seperate series is that the South is changing dramatically 159 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: and quickly. There's myself, There's Asha Gomez, Vision Part Mini, 160 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: Johan Chit, Kumar Farhan Sam. I mean, I'm naming Indian chefs, 161 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: the chefs of Indian origin that have their restaurants, and 162 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: they're doing amazing things in the South. Not in San Francisco, 163 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: not in l A, not in d C, not in 164 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: New York, but in small towns in the South. Nashville, Asheville, Birmingham, Oxford, Mississippi. UM, 165 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, the fact that we're not just doing well's succeeding, 166 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: but flourishing and being acknowledged. What we're doing, to me 167 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: is indicative that even what we think of as the 168 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: South is changing. It's not all happening at the same time, 169 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: and it's not happening everywhere. But for me, even a 170 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: town like Asheville is a little bit of a blueprint 171 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: for what I'm calling the new South is going to 172 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: look like. Um, immigrants are coming here. Um, there's economic 173 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: opportunities that it's affordable housing, is affordable labor, costs are affordable. 174 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: You know, Lexington, Kentucky is jokingly referred to as Mexington 175 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: Kentucky because it's the large Latino population that's starting to 176 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: come to the South. And I think it's awesome and 177 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: amazing and probably scary for some people, but you know, 178 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: it's a change. So my daughter, you know, she looks 179 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: just like me. She's been here since she was two 180 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: years old. And as far as she's concerned that if 181 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: you would ask her where you're from, she will say 182 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: from this out And I think twenty years from now, 183 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: it won't be so unusual for someone that looks like 184 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: me or some variation of black or brown to say 185 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm from the South, and it could be completely natural 186 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: and normal. But whether we're personally individual really welcoming is 187 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 1: only one part here. There's another piece to this conversation 188 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: that often gets left out. Food writer Mackenzie Lunsford has 189 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: covered the Asheville food scene for thirteen years, so she's 190 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: witnessed the transformation of the city and the social issues 191 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: that have dogged it. We have a lot of issues 192 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: um with people finding good employees, which is of course 193 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: not not limited to Asheville. Everyone's having a hard time 194 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: finding good health and uh yeah, wage issues, things like 195 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: that are the types of things that I write about 196 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: a lot. Um. We have a we have a very thriving, 197 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: very involved latin X community, and they are making themselves 198 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: very present, uh in in a very very good, active, 199 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: strong way when people are making space for them, like 200 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,119 Speaker 1: people are. Yes, there are ice rates here in Asheville. 201 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: Uh A couple of months ago, and I mean even 202 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: undocumented latin X folks came out to pack groceries for 203 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: the people who were hiding in their homes and members 204 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: other members of the community came and helped them um 205 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: at a place called Beloved House, which has dedicated itself 206 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: as a sanctuary. It has been disturbing to this this 207 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: community to see those those raids go on. And obviously, 208 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: h the immigrant population has a huge hand in the 209 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: food that we eat, from the fields to the table. Yeah. Yeah, 210 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: thank you for speaking to it, because it is such 211 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: a I think people just don't think about it. I 212 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: think you're right. I think people don't think about it, 213 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: and and it you may hear that I am getting 214 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: a little bit angry over it too. I Mean, look, 215 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: I understand laws, and I understand that we have a 216 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: need to uphold laws, but we also need to take 217 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: a gentle and open minded look at how important am 218 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: I grants are to our society as a whole. And 219 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: then little pockets within our society like the restaurant business, 220 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: the you know, the look around the skyline of Asheville. 221 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: Their hotels being built everywhere, and they're being built on 222 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: the backs of immigrants, are being cleaned by immigrants, They're 223 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: being you know, run by immigrants. I mean they make 224 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: the world go round. And especially a tourist based economy 225 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: like Asheville, it's you know, important sector of our society. 226 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: It's the agricultural side of things. Um. We are a 227 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: huge apple growing region, especially in Hendersonville outside of Asheville 228 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: a little bit, and we had farmers whose apples were 229 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: falling off their trees and rotting in the fields because 230 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: they went once Immigration laws have have been titans, you know, 231 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: in work visas. They're a little bit harder to secure 232 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: and there is a fear element. And I had farmers 233 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: who were saying, I have products just dying and there's 234 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: no one to pick up. What do you think that 235 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: turns into? I mean, do you think that we're all 236 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: just going to have to get used to paying an 237 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: actual fair price for tomatoes. That's another part of the conversation, right, 238 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: I mean, we are so dependent on cheap labor. The 239 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: society is so dependent on cheap labor. The South was 240 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: built on slave labor, you know, and sometimes I feel 241 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: like we've barely gotten away from that. Let me share 242 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: a couple more facts from our tipping episode, which is 243 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: still probably the most angry I've gotten recording episode of 244 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: Chefs in America are men, and men also hold about 245 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: sevent of management positions in the restaurant industry. This means 246 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: that men hold more of the guaranteed minimum wage and 247 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: higher paid positions as compared to women and especially women 248 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: of color. Kenzie came up through the restaurant industry from dishwashing, 249 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: through line cook, through chef and restaurant owner before settling 250 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: completely into journalism, so she was able to speak to 251 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: these issues from multiple facets women in the restaurant business. 252 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we do have Asheville has a top female chef. 253 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean you've heard about like Lee Katie Button over 254 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: curte As. She gets quite a lot of attention um 255 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: for our city, and rightly so. She's talented, and those 256 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: restaurants are very good. Um, but I struggle to think 257 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: of women in the restaurant industry when somebody asked me, 258 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: for example, I'm judging a competition soon, and I'm often 259 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: the only woman at these tables, you know, And and 260 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: the organizer asked me if I could recommend some women 261 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry, and I thought of a few, 262 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: but they are fairly few and far between now and now. 263 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: Do I think that's a local thing, No, I don't. 264 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: And I have noticed a lot more women in the 265 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: kitchen since my time in the kitchen. My time in 266 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: the kitchen, I was paid less than than others, and 267 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: I'm certain of that. And it was not a problem 268 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: for me at all, because I was one of those 269 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: people who was a little bit I don't know, assertive, 270 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: which I think you have to be if you're going, 271 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're going to be in the food 272 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: industry at all, probably, but especially as a woman. One 273 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: more fact for you. The restaurant industry has the highest 274 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: rates of reported sexual harassment in the country. Survey restaurant workers, 275 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: both male and female, said that they had experienced sexual 276 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: behavior in the restaurant industry that's scary or unwanted, and 277 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: since of servers or women, they bear the brunt of this. 278 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't an issue for me, but I know that 279 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: other women in the restaurant industry have faced issues of 280 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: sexual harassment. I mean, it's not limited to the kitchen um. 281 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: It's probably worse in the front of the house, because 282 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: you have people who come into eat and spend money 283 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: and then they I've had a lot of conversations about 284 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: this with local restaurant people, and yeah, people come in 285 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: to eat and they feel as though they own a 286 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: piece of you for a little while, and sometimes they 287 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: act accordingly. And I know that that Curs which we're 288 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: just talking about, has ejected a customer for touching staff members, 289 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: which is great. Yeah, and and they don't stand for 290 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: that crap. I mean, they they're very very forward thinking 291 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: over there. At Curte, they have a HR department. They 292 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: have systems in place so that people can report things 293 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: when they happen anonymously without fearing for their jobs. But 294 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: not many restaurants have those sort of structures in place. 295 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: And we live in a town full of very small 296 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: independent restaurants without HR departments. So you know, for all 297 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: your own conclusions. It is. It's part of a national 298 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: and probably global culture that is changing, but way more slowly. 299 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 1: Certainly the mentality has changed. It's such an ingrained culture, 300 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: kind of unfortunate or totally unfortunately. Rather that I'll go 301 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: full speed ahead. That sucks, that's not great. Yeah, I 302 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: mean that. Having been said that, I do have to 303 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: add that you know that this does seem like a 304 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: respectful space, Asheville is very progressive, and so that that 305 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: works out in our favor. I mean, again, I'm not 306 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: saying that that eliminates sexual harassment, but I would say 307 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: that in general, the chefs and restaurant people who I 308 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: know are a fairly enlightened bunch. It's kind of hard 309 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: going into interviews sometimes as an entertainment podcaster, or it's 310 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: easy in some ways because you're excited about the work 311 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: that people are doing and they get to share what 312 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: they're excited about. But and I think I speak for 313 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: the whole team here, we worry sometimes that we're only 314 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: getting the bright side of the story. And I mean, 315 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: we're not Barbara Walters. You know. We do try to 316 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: ask meaningful questions, but sometimes you only have thirty minutes 317 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: with someone sometimes you only have ten. We were lucky 318 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: on this trip to have time and to have people 319 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: who are part of this community because they are reflexive 320 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: and open and working in this industry is rough. We 321 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: need to talk about mental health in the food industry, 322 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: and we'll get into that after a quick break for 323 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, 324 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: thank you. So the sort of things Mackenzie was describing, 325 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: It was wonderful to hear and see and feel that 326 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: sort of care and respect being spoken to. But it's 327 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: bitter sweet that as pleasant as it was here, it 328 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: was still a pleasant surprise. The restaurant industry is hard 329 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: on folks. This is something I've seen personally growing up. 330 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: My father worked as a chef for most of my 331 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: childhood and young adulthood, and it's something that was really 332 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: made public back in June when Anthony Bourdain committed suicide. Yeah, so, 333 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: mental health and substance abuse. It's an ongoing discussion within 334 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: the food industry, and this is something Mackenzie has written 335 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: about as well. The restaurant industry itself does kind of 336 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: lend itself to a culture where you're taking advantage of 337 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: the mind altering substances around you more often. UM. I 338 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: think that one of the chefs in that article that 339 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: I wrote about substance abuse UM after in the wake 340 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: of Anthony boarding suicide, one of the chefs mentioned that 341 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: most people who work regular schedules, when they get off work, 342 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: there are a lot of things open. There are churches, 343 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: there are you know, there are grocery stores, there are 344 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: lots of wholesome places to go. Um. But when you 345 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: get off of work at midnight, there are only a 346 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: few places that are open, and they are not churches. So, 347 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, when you get off at midnight and you're 348 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: wound up because you've been you know, cooking for hundreds 349 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: of tourists, you're you're probably going to go get a 350 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: pint of beer and follow that with more so and 351 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: then heavy drinking lends itself to anxiety, which lends itself 352 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: to more drinking. So you get in this kind of 353 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: catch twin too. I mean, the restaurant business is intense 354 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: and it'll drive anybody to drink, I mean, trust me, yeah. 355 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: And it's and it's also part of the you know, 356 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: like you want to try everything, and and it's it's 357 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: almost rude to turn down your your colleagues to to 358 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: say to say like oh no, you know, like I'm 359 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: not going to try this product that you just made, 360 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: that you've been caring about for the past a few 361 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: months or a few years given. I also think that, 362 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: like I was saying, alcohol can lead to anxiety, there's 363 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: a lot of mental health issues that spring up when 364 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: you're living a very opposite life from most people. When 365 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: you're working on weekends and you're working on holidays, and 366 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: you're working at night, and that sort of thing um 367 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: that can lend itself to depression as well. So there 368 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: are a lot of things involved in the restaurant industry that, 369 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: when when combined, create fertile ground for substance abuse, mental 370 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: health issues. That sort of thing. These kinds of mental health, 371 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: substance abuse issues, sexual harassment, deep serious topics are are 372 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: kind of on the table right now and our culture 373 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: in general, and they're difficult to ignore. And I think 374 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of chefs and restaurant owners 375 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 1: are looking at internally and some of them are setting 376 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: up systems. I mean, I mentioned Katie Button from Courtey 377 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: has a program where they do pay for their employees 378 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: to go get counseling um several times. And uh, they 379 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: also pay for partner of any kind, you know, a 380 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: roommate to go with them as well. So that's a 381 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: really great way to address us, a step step in 382 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: the right direction. And also there are I see a 383 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: lot of restaurants trying to act more like the legit 384 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: businesses that they are, and it's less of a pirate 385 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: ship culture these days and more of this is a 386 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: business and we are professionals. And I think that may 387 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: go hand in hand with the rise of celebrity chefs, 388 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of validating in a way restaurant business as a 389 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: profession and people are taking a look at how they're 390 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: running things and kind of shaping up a little bit. 391 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: We certainly hope so we do. And we've seen folks 392 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: around the world banned together in these conversations, especially in 393 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: the wake of Bourdain's death. To learn more get help, 394 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: A great resource is Chefs with Issues dot com. There 395 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: may even be a support group in your area. There's 396 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: one here in Atlanta that I'm hoping we'll get to 397 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: speak with soon. In the meanwhile, let's expand our view 398 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: from the food industry. It's off to the larger issue 399 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: of nutrition and food security. Ashville is also trying to 400 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: find ways to deal with hunger in the region. According 401 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: to the U S Department of Agriculture, eleven point eight 402 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: percent of American households where food insecure as of seventeen. 403 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: This means that those households lacked access to enough food 404 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: to provide an active, healthy life for all of its 405 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: households members, and this can be due to a number 406 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: of factors, from poverty and job security to whether or 407 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: not you have easy access to a grocery store or 408 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: some other outlet that sells fresh proteins and fresh vegetables. 409 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: North Carolina was one of the eleven states that came 410 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: in worse than the national average at fourteen point four 411 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: percent food and security. It's a national problem, but something 412 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: that local people are coming together to solve. Here's Sue 413 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: helm and Asheville food critic um. One thing that people 414 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: may be very surprised about is that Ashville is in 415 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: the middle of a part of the country that has 416 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: one of the worst rates of hunger, especially the food insecurity. 417 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: People who don't know where their next nutritious meal is 418 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: coming from. That's a big issue in North Carolina, Western 419 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: North Carolina and so there's a lot of charities that 420 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: try to distribute food. There's man of Food Bank. There's 421 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: a Welcome Table which is run by the Haywood Congregation 422 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: and they feed about a thousand people a week a 423 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: free meal, and all of the restaurants participate in Welcome Table, 424 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: So like literally the best restaurants in town will be 425 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: cooking a meal at the Haywood Congregation for all of 426 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 1: the people to enjoy. And also there's a great one 427 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: called Food Connection that's run by a local organization called 428 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Dig Local and they are dig Local as an app 429 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: and you use it to find out what's happening every 430 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: day in Nashville. But they have a charity called Food Connection, 431 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: and what they do is they work with caterers and restaurants. 432 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: When they have leftover food at the end of the 433 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: night that's still hot and still good, they wrap it up, 434 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: call a taxi, and the taxi brings it to a shelter. 435 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: We've talked about this spirit of collaboration in Asheville and 436 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: that extends out to helping folks. Jail Radigan, CEO of 437 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: French Broad Chocolate, shared her experience with this. One of 438 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: my favorite examples of collaboration in the restaurant industry. Is 439 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: an organization that serves meals to people who need to 440 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: eat every week. Um. It happens at a church. It's 441 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: called the Welcome Table, and everybody's welcome, no questions asked. 442 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: There's no religious agenda. Um. But it's a project that 443 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: is filled with community and love and dignity. Rather than 444 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: being set up as like a soup kitchen line, people 445 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: sit down at a table and they're served a meal 446 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: by volunteers and they get to enjoy food and each 447 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: other's company. Um. And there was a local restaurant in 448 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: town that established an initiative for the local restaurants to 449 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: participate in that project. So a lot of us. I 450 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: don't even know how many it is, how many restaurants 451 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: are participating. But um, we either partner with another restaurant 452 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: or a restaurant handles it themselves and we feed you know, 453 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: five hundred people in a day. Um. And it's not 454 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: anyone's pet project. It's it's a collaboration and it wouldn't 455 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: be successful without everybody's contribution and participation. Ashville is looking 456 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: into other creative ideas to combat hunger as well. Stu 457 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: told us about one such venture championed by farmer Sunil Patel. 458 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: He has a company called Patchwork Urban Farms and he 459 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: works with people who have large front or back or 460 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: side lawns that live in the urban area and he 461 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: will calm and assess your property for farming, and then 462 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: his people will calm until the soil plants. The plants 463 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: harvest the plants, give you a portion of the produce, 464 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: give a large portion of it too, free to neighborhoods 465 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: that have limited access to fresh food, and then sell 466 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: the rest to restaurants. And this relates to something else 467 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: that Asheville is working on sustainability. We'll get into that 468 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: after one more quick break for a word from our sponsor, 469 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Sustainability 470 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: and reducing food waste the whole head detailed movement. It's 471 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: a movement taking place on a national level as well. 472 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: But Stu put it this way, it's a trend and 473 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: a belief and an ideology that has become so ingrained 474 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: in the ashvill food scene. That's just part of our 475 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: scene now. It's so much part of the scene that 476 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: there is a whole company devoted to helping restaurants legally 477 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: ferment and pickle things that would otherwise go to waste. 478 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: But it's also so much part of the scene that, 479 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: according to Jamie Eager, a fourth generation farmer over at 480 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: Hickory Nut Gap Farm, that it's in some ways circled 481 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: around to being problematic. Again, take for example, the trend 482 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: of serving weird parts are not going to waste. Yeah, 483 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: but it's funny because some chefs want to feature a 484 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: local item and so they'll they want to do like 485 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: an appetizer like piggy ears or something like that, which 486 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: is great, but it's also like, wait, you can't just 487 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: buy piggy ears like that. We also have other items, 488 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: Like there's sort of this whole movement towards using the 489 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: whole animal, which is great, but it's like, all of 490 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, piggy ears become the most valuable piece on 491 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: the animal, and you're like, this is we still have 492 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: to move the whole pork chop and everything else too. 493 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: So that was a funny moment when we were like 494 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: that guy, it just all he wants is piggy ears, Like, Okay, 495 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: what do you do about that? Which I guess brings 496 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: us to a pressing question our original question from the 497 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: top of this episode. Can weirdness last in a town 498 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: based on supporting local, on being conscious on staying weird 499 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: Once you start marketing that, once tourists come in and 500 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: the population starts expanding, is it sustainable or does it 501 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: just become a market employed for big business. Here in 502 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: our home base of Atlanta, it's on our minds a lot. 503 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: The folks we spoke with in Nashville noted the change 504 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: that's happening, but they were pretty hopeful about it. Here's 505 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: Whattt Murphy and Chris Bower from at a Rhyme Distillery. 506 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: I think that there's been good and bad with the changes, 507 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of like blooming entrepreneurship that 508 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't be allowed in a place that wasn't flourishing. And 509 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people get to follow their dreams here 510 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: and do really cool stuff because we do have a 511 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: lot of growth here. And yeah, I think that, uh, 512 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, life is about adapting to change, and I've 513 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: seen it go a lot worse in other places than 514 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: it has in Nashville. Again, I think it's because of 515 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: the people here that have sort of helped guide and 516 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: build the city and the surround the counties. Jamie talked 517 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: about those opportunities to guide and build and not just 518 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: your business, but the industry as a whole. You know, 519 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: when we first started, we were thinking about grass fed 520 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: beef and how we can do a good job praising 521 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: these cattle and focusing on better systems for cattle and 522 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: hogs and raising hogs outside and developing those systems. But 523 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: what's exciting to me is that we can not only 524 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, have a neat little story here at the farm, 525 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: but also because we've done the hard work of marketing 526 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: and branding and sales which drives business um, that we've 527 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: been able to really think about how do we change 528 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: agriculture and the and the way people think about food 529 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: in a much more comprehensive manner. How do we change 530 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: farming and how do we rethink how farmers produced Because 531 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: like feed lots and all the big agriculture stuff came 532 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: about just because of the business opportunity that was there 533 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: and somebody started figuring it out, and and so now people, 534 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole another generation of people asking 535 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: questions of out, how does this get done? How do 536 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: we sort of understand the impact of our eating When 537 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: I eat a steak or something, hamburger or something, what 538 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: what does that look like all the way through back 539 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: to the farm, back to the environment. And that's Those 540 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: are not questions that people have historically pushed on, and 541 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: so now it's like, well, let's let's get that all 542 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: that consideration, which is a big thing. We all eat 543 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: and drink, We're all connected in that way. It's a 544 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: shared experience, and there are human stories behind these experiences. 545 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: It's good to remind ourselves of that. I think the 546 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: better the food industry is for those working within it 547 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: and for the planet, the better for all of us 548 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: as consumers. We can push for change. Here's Jamie again, 549 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: there's more to sort of just an item on the shelf, 550 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, like there's a story back there, there's a 551 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: people back there, and we all impact each other. And 552 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: the sort of old paradigm of regulating the correct behavior 553 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: is ineffective and obsolete to some degree, and so we've 554 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: got to find a way to build accountability and integrity 555 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: and all the things that we want with food, with products, 556 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Consumers from driving that at 557 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: the end of the day, all day long, and that matter, 558 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: and so they're buying choices matter. We can't take the 559 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: humanity out of food. It's part of our history and 560 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: a part of our future. We'll leave the last word 561 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: from our one. I find that the history of food 562 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: is inseparable from the history of humanity. I mean, almost 563 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: everything we've done as a species are you know, settling 564 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: down into small societies instead of being nomadic and moving 565 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: away from hunter gatherer into more of an agricultural lifestyle. 566 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: Our settlements and the banks of rivers or shores or 567 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: near mountains or valleys. Our civilizations are wars, are explorations, 568 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: Columbus sailing to find you know, the America's it's all 569 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: been driven by food, by looking for it, by you know, 570 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: finding new sources for it, by finding new experiences and 571 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 1: flavors and food, and and along with that sort of religion, 572 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: you know, which the two ago so intertwined that you know, 573 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: you can't separate the two. When you study food, and 574 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: when you study instory food, you realizing your study the 575 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: history of who humans are and how we got to 576 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: where we got today, and even now. I mean, I 577 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: believe that food is culturally shaping us. I mean, I 578 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: think you know, whether it's Instagram or social media, or 579 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: delivery services or relates and technology, it's still always seems 580 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: to find a way to center around food. So yeah, 581 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: that that would be my takeaway thought ours too, Yeah, 582 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: that's a pretty good takeaway thought. And speaking of thoughts, 583 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: if you'd like to get in touch with us, we 584 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. Our email address is 585 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: hello at favor pod dot com. We're also on social media. 586 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at 587 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: savor pod. We really do hope to hear from you. 588 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our guests today and to 589 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: Landi's Taylor and the whole team over at explore Asheville 590 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: dot com for helping us find them, and our co 591 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: executive producer Christopher Hasciotis for helping us find them. Thanks 592 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: as always to super producer Dylan for making our jobs 593 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: easy and our other co executive producer, Julie Douglas for 594 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: all of her good advice. Thanks to you for listening, 595 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 596 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: your way.