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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to this week's episode of the PhD podcast.

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Speaker 1: It should go out every name, and I have yet

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Speaker 1: another inspiring and informative episode for you guys. Um. Normally

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Speaker 1: I do a little housekeeping, but Dick, I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to jump right into this episode because I know it's

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Speaker 1: going to help a lot of women out there. So

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Speaker 1: to my guests, how are you doing today? I'm doing

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Speaker 1: pretty good. I'm I'm nervous, but also I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I always you know, I try to like hyper plan

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Speaker 1: these things too much because it's very intimidating to like

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Speaker 1: share something so personal. But I think, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's important to just kind of take a conversational approach

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Speaker 1: and and because that's more you know, relatable to people

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Speaker 1: that are out there, will not being nervous. I know

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Speaker 1: the topic is very um can be a little uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: but I would try my best to make you feel

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Speaker 1: as comfortable as possible, So don't be nervous. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: I guess we could just jump right into it. So

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, because I read your blog every

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Speaker 1: almost every single post that she posted on your page,

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Speaker 1: and it was really good. Thank you. Um, So I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken two years ago. You were right, Yes, December

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Speaker 1: one into December two of so, sis, then I have

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Speaker 1: stings changed for you. Um, it's all of it has

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Speaker 1: really changed pretty drastically. I still kind of tend to

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Speaker 1: view my life is this like chasm between before and

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Speaker 1: after that happened, because it was a very um defining

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Speaker 1: experience for me, especially in my college experience, because um,

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Speaker 1: I really kind of went into college, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: very like wide eyed and prepared for the world, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least as I thought it, um, And so I

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Speaker 1: had this kind of sense of immunity that it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have and to me because I was a nerd and

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Speaker 1: always stayed in my room and you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: go to parties, and and I kind of had these

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Speaker 1: similar ideals that a lot of young women have of like,

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Speaker 1: if you follow the unwritten rules for how women should

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Speaker 1: behave on college campuses, then that will uh you know,

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Speaker 1: then it won't happen to you, which is of course

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Speaker 1: I realized now very naive. UM, but I think we

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Speaker 1: are um enculturated in a way that tells particularly young women,

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Speaker 1: but absolutely young men as well, that um, the way

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Speaker 1: you choose to conduct yourself either warrants or does not

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Speaker 1: warrant a sexual assault, which is obviously not true. But

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Speaker 1: I think, UM, a lot of the victim blaming that

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Speaker 1: I've experienced, especially like at the hands of women, which

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Speaker 1: I found surprising, I don't want to bring it up later,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy me. Yeah, And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of that just comes from the simple fact that, UM,

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Speaker 1: there's no reality that we can create where we have

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Speaker 1: this cloak of immunity towards sexual assault. So I think

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Speaker 1: many young women want to be able to give themselves

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Speaker 1: that sense of security and saying, well, if I don't, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I don't drink, if I don't dress

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Speaker 1: like that, if I don't hang out with those people,

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Speaker 1: if I don't do this, then it won't happen to me.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I'm saying, Well, these are

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Speaker 1: these are the decisions that made it your fault, which

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Speaker 1: is of course really toxic but also really common in

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Speaker 1: all of this. And and I kind of had the perception,

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Speaker 1: UM before this ever even happened. I was working on

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Speaker 1: undergraduate research actually UM about sexual assault education programming, and

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Speaker 1: it's a great myth acceptance and empathy. UM. So I

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Speaker 1: considered myself to be very UM informed and I I

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Speaker 1: still think that's the case. However, UM, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think it just goes to show that, UM, there is

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Speaker 1: an element of it that I always have to remind

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Speaker 1: myself that, like it's all chaos and it's all random,

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Speaker 1: because UM, the reality is like I did everything right

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Speaker 1: and something like this still happened to me. And even

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Speaker 1: that phrase of like everything right is extremely relative, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely became UM, much less UM in the

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Speaker 1: media aftermath, much less outspoken. UM. I was terrified to

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Speaker 1: go anywhere on campus, to walk anywhere on campus, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: leave my room for days at a time. I never

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Speaker 1: went to the class wherever he where my rapist was

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Speaker 1: ever again, which was very out of character for me.

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Speaker 1: I literally never missed classes before that. UM. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: sleep and les so it was light out, so I

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Speaker 1: stayed up all night. M hm. Basically everything kind of

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Speaker 1: UM inverted on its head. UM. But then after that, UM,

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Speaker 1: I did become a sexual assault crisis counselor and kind

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Speaker 1: of wanted to utilize my experience to provide for other

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Speaker 1: people what I felt I wasn't afforded in the immediate

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Speaker 1: aftermath with UH, I get it in my nose as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's really cool that you that you're

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Speaker 1: doing it, really awesome that whole experience. But yeah, So

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Speaker 1: I think one thing that when I was reading your

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Speaker 1: story and I I mean, it was an AHA moment

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Speaker 1: for me because it was just like with Dull, like

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Speaker 1: why people don't take the responsibility? You said something in

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Speaker 1: an effect of UM, you know, they always blame the

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Speaker 1: victims to how they should take responsibility, but it's like,

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Speaker 1: what about the fucking rapists, Like they should take the

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Speaker 1: responsibility as well. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I think UM. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: within the past two years, there has been little to

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Speaker 1: no culpability UM pushed in his direction. I mean I've

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Speaker 1: been interviewed UM upwards of twenty times, I both on

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Speaker 1: camera off camera written statements, UM, you know you name it,

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Speaker 1: and I think the and you know, with his attorney,

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Speaker 1: he's only been interviewed once UM the period of all

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Speaker 1: of this happening UM, as well as the fact that

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Speaker 1: he was permitted to stay on campus by the university

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Speaker 1: he did. Really Wait, I'm to get into that because

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of things say about the campus

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Speaker 1: to which I thought was pretty fucked up. So before

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Speaker 1: we jump into it, okay, so I know you don't

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Speaker 1: have to go into detail, but just to give us

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Speaker 1: a gist of what happened at night, because I know

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Speaker 1: you said that. I think what's so significant about this

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Speaker 1: story is I think a lot of times people think

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Speaker 1: that when you're a rapist about somebody don't know and

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Speaker 1: it's actual boy friends. Yeah, I think that from the

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Speaker 1: outside looking in, people think the old agents phrasy always

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Speaker 1: hang out. Maybe it was not a little bit more

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Speaker 1: when it wasn't. Yeah, absolutely not. Um, But I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's really important to kind of highlight that factor

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Speaker 1: of it because I think you feel even more of

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Speaker 1: a sense of immunity when we are with someone that

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Speaker 1: we know, when in reality, stranger rape cases make up

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Speaker 1: a very small proportion of who actually experienced sexual assaults,

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Speaker 1: and most often, um, next to you know, family members,

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Speaker 1: most often on college campuses, it is friends and acquaintances. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know. So I, um, yeah, he was my classmate

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Speaker 1: in a psychology course. Um. I was a peer reviewer

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Speaker 1: for his research study, as was he to mine. UM,

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Speaker 1: So I got to know him fairly closely over that

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Speaker 1: that semester. So I've known him for about three months

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Speaker 1: by the time that that happened, so not a very

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Speaker 1: long term thing. UM. And essentially, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: what started as just um, just a you know, work

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Speaker 1: on the study type of thing. You know, we did

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Speaker 1: end up talking and becoming friends. UM. We had to

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Speaker 1: watch a movie, UM, Goodwill Hunting for this psychology class

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Speaker 1: of his, where we tried to like diagnose him or something.

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Speaker 1: I you know, After that we just kind of hung

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Speaker 1: out and you know, watch movies and child and UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, but it was a very um innocent relationship.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and every UM and I felt I felt

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Speaker 1: fairly comfortable. And I think the important thing is, um,

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Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time really expressing a lot

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Speaker 1: of interest in the things that I was interested in

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Speaker 1: and asking me questions and things like that. And UM,

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Speaker 1: I always try to remind myself for when I start

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Speaker 1: to feel like, oh, was I stupid? Was I missing something?

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Speaker 1: Was I missed in some signal that was being put

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Speaker 1: out it was telling me this, And then I still

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Speaker 1: have to remind myself that that doesn't justify um, holding

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Speaker 1: someone against their will for thirteen hours and raping them twice,

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Speaker 1: UM if he didn't have a have a crush or

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Speaker 1: a thing. I mean, he was introduced to my boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: and I don't I don't ever think I really UM

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Speaker 1: implied that I was interested in him that way. But UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't think what he did was born out of

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Speaker 1: any genuine interest in me romantically, Absolutely not. UM. The

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Speaker 1: the assault itself was not an opportunistic thing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I was over there in the six days prior working

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Speaker 1: on our research manuscripts that were due to be submitted

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Speaker 1: that Monday, so this was a Friday, UM, and there

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Speaker 1: was never ever any inclination, no touch, no look the

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Speaker 1: wrong way, no kiss, no nothing. UM. And I think

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Speaker 1: the warrant factor is, you know, he waited until I

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Speaker 1: was incapacitated because I did UM have a drink. UM.

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Speaker 1: I trusted so much that it was a drink that

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Speaker 1: was there when I got there, and I thought nothing

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Speaker 1: of it mm hm. And the fact that he waited

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Speaker 1: till I was incapacitated to UM to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: me was something that UM just stuck out to me

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Speaker 1: as very UM intentional. And there was absolutely no UM.

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Speaker 1: I know, there's no reality where he could say, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know I thought it was consensual because um, throughout

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Speaker 1: that entire process, um, you know, I kind of really

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Speaker 1: tried everything to get him to stop. You know, I

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Speaker 1: started first writing back verbal negotiation, just trying to say, uh,

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Speaker 1: I have a boyfriend, I'm on my period, I need

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Speaker 1: to go home, I have to finish my paper. We're

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Speaker 1: just for ends. Can you slow down. And then once

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Speaker 1: it got to um, the point where that obviously wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to happen. Um, you know, I even tried tactics like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, can you move from this position? And then

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Speaker 1: when I did, I tried to bolt for the door. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, obviously he he had locked the

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Speaker 1: door and you know, made it there for me first.

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Speaker 1: But I I think the important thing, um, to recognize

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Speaker 1: about these types of situations is that many times there

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Speaker 1: is something, usually something that is set up by the

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Speaker 1: perpetrator that is going to give you some sense of

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Speaker 1: guilt and culpability that will keep you from sharing something.

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Speaker 1: So usually, um, you know, he made a lot of

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Speaker 1: attempts to humili ate me throughout the process as well

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Speaker 1: as to um remind me that I had well, you

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Speaker 1: took the drink and you came over here, and it

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Speaker 1: was almost like he was in it. Yeah, It's almost

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Speaker 1: like he was before I left, preparing me for the

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Speaker 1: reality that like people were gonna blame me for this. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think that shows a lot of intent on

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Speaker 1: his part. I mean, you know, it was it was

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Speaker 1: just kind of really an unbelievable circumstance. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: believe that it was happening. Um. You know what happened.

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Speaker 1: One time he raped me on his roommate's bed, um,

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Speaker 1: because that was after me repeatedly trying to run from

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Speaker 1: the room. So he just raped me there, and then

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Speaker 1: I ended up being sick. I threw up. I passed

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Speaker 1: out like shortly after that, and then I woke up

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Speaker 1: and it is light outside, and I was in his bed,

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Speaker 1: covered with his sweatshirt at the foot of his bed,

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Speaker 1: and he was sitting on his phone. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: as soon as I woke up, he um, he raped

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Speaker 1: me again and then he let me go. I just

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Speaker 1: gathered all my miscellaneous things off the floor, UM, sands,

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Speaker 1: my left sock, which he thought awesome to message me later, UM,

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Speaker 1: I have you if you wanted. UM. Disgusting, but um.

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Speaker 1: And then I just walked directly from that dorm room

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Speaker 1: to the hospital where I got a rape kit. Is

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Speaker 1: as soon as I left there before he felt about

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Speaker 1: the rape tip. I want to actual a question, do

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Speaker 1: you think this was the first time doing this? Um?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I'm I'm fairly confident that there's no way

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Speaker 1: that this could have been a first time thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: The fact that his room came home when we were studying,

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Speaker 1: and then um, he went into the room apparently to

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Speaker 1: grab me another pencil, and then his roommate left, and

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Speaker 1: all of them left for the entire night and no

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Speaker 1: one came back. Um. That is very suspicious to me. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then in the title nine investigation, when the roommates

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Speaker 1: were interviewed interviewed by the um by the university, they

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Speaker 1: said all sorts of things like I had never even

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Speaker 1: met them. I had just seen them in passing and

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we thought, um, they were dating. And

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Speaker 1: so he said he wanted the room for the night.

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Speaker 1: And so to me, that shows that he had planned yea,

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Speaker 1: that this would be the thing, because he told them

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Speaker 1: that he wanted the room for the night. UM. So

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Speaker 1: there was really fucking scary because it's not only just

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Speaker 1: one person. It's like a community of them. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they definitely, um, they made their jokes and had

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Speaker 1: their laughs, um telling you know, telling them, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were cuddling and she spent the night before and

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Speaker 1: which was absolutely not the case, and that was able

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Speaker 1: to be proven by my attorney. I had never spent

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Speaker 1: the night there. I had never even spent more than

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Speaker 1: an hour or two there. So when I didn't show

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Speaker 1: up for thirteen hours, um, and when I didn't come

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Speaker 1: home that night, my roommates were very worried. Um, so

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Speaker 1: that was you know, they claimed a lot of things

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Speaker 1: to be characteristic of my behavior that we're absolutely not

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Speaker 1: that we're able to be um refuted. But I think ahead,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think people want to believe whatever sounds

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Speaker 1: like the more plausible and comfortable version of a story

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Speaker 1: when it comes to something like this. So I when

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Speaker 1: I reported, people were really grasping at straws. Like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the people that I reported to were saying, um, oh,

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Speaker 1: do you think he to you? Do you think um

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Speaker 1: did he hear you say? No? Um? You know was

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Speaker 1: but was he drunk too? Because people want to create

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Speaker 1: something that that lessens the culpability. But um, I absolutely

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Speaker 1: believe he did this before. One of the first things

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Speaker 1: I described his affect. Um, one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I said when I described his affect to the detective

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Speaker 1: that I reported to was that he bored um that

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Speaker 1: he was wedding here. You that he seemed bored mm hm.

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Speaker 1: And that really was the case. I mean, he he

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Speaker 1: didn't respond to or speak to me for a good

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Speaker 1: twelve hours. Um. So it was it was like negotiating

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Speaker 1: with a brick wall. UM. So I definitely think that, um,

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Speaker 1: this was something. You know, I kind of have a

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Speaker 1: hard time believing he's on a college campus for three

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Speaker 1: and a half years and had never um perpetrated. I think, what, Um, Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe you really want to speak to you, because it's

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Speaker 1: like the fact that this happened on a college campus

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Speaker 1: is like, it's unbelievable, and I know it happens all

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Speaker 1: the time, and the fact that you came to the

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Speaker 1: college campus, you spoke to the spoke to everybody is

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Speaker 1: like you to me, it's like you didn't get the

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Speaker 1: support that you needed. Yeah, yeah, absolutely not. Unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: response of the university and even to this day, UM

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Speaker 1: has been absolutely appalling. You know, one of my main

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Speaker 1: focuses at this point, is really trying to UM work

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Speaker 1: with my attorney to do something to change the way

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Speaker 1: that they respond to these UM future reports, because unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I did receive a lot of a lot of victim

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Speaker 1: blaming UM and shaming by the university. UM. You know.

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Speaker 1: I reported to the title nine coordinator UM and that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty horrific experience, which is kind of alarming

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Speaker 1: when you consider that this person is employed to specifically

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Speaker 1: investigate these types of investigations and they are, UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're so uninformed. I had a I had an administrator

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Speaker 1: say to me, I'm not talking about alcohol facilitated rape.

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Speaker 1: She put in the air quotes. I saw that. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what the fun is she serious? Yeah? Is rape?

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Speaker 1: No means no? Yeah. And she told me, you know,

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Speaker 1: one day you'll find your prince charming or a guy

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Speaker 1: who will treat you like a princess, and this will

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Speaker 1: all feel like a bad dream. And this was after

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Speaker 1: I gave like over a three hour statement explaining UM

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Speaker 1: all the horrific things that he did. UM you know,

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Speaker 1: and she said to me, it doesn't matter to me

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Speaker 1: that you got a rape kit. I can't take that

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Speaker 1: into consideration. Anyone could go and get a rape kit

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Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. It doesn't necessarily are raped, which, um,

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Speaker 1: you know is mind blowing to me because I've never

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Speaker 1: heard of another reason for people to get a rape kit.

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Speaker 1: And then considering the forensic evidence collected by the doctors, Um,

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Speaker 1: just the just the physical evidence, because obviously the rape

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Speaker 1: kit goes off to a state lab to be tested. Like,

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Speaker 1: so I gave them like maps of my bruising and

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Speaker 1: other things of that nature, and she was like, I

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Speaker 1: have no way of knowing if you normally bruise during sex.

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Speaker 1: Um are you saying it was rape? Ha did on

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Speaker 1: your boyfriend? Um? You know, in her lack of awareness

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Speaker 1: of what even a rape kit entailed was pretty horrifying

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Speaker 1: considering her position, because you know what I said that

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Speaker 1: the rape kit was retraumatizing. She just asked me if

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Speaker 1: that was my first gynecological exam, and I was like, UM,

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Speaker 1: it's much more involved than that, you know, But people

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Speaker 1: asking me, you know, did you clear at least say no?

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Speaker 1: Why were you terrified? Exactly? Did he have a weapon? Um?

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Speaker 1: Why didn't you pepper spray him? Um? Oh yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I'm being right. You think I didn't have pepper spray

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Speaker 1: in my hand, like it was wrong with people. I

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Speaker 1: think another thing, I like, I think overall, I really

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Speaker 1: like how you was very detailed because, like, I think

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Speaker 1: that people don't understand what goes on mentally when you're

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Speaker 1: going through the process of having a rape kid done.

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Speaker 1: And I like how he was like very detailed talking

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Speaker 1: because I think overall, for me, it seems like you

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Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable because of how everybody was streating, because they

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Speaker 1: pretty much was blaming you for what happened to you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the process of getting a rape kid is, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's unfortunately, it's extraordinarily invasive, and UM, many

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Speaker 1: times I really kind of operated under the assumption before

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Speaker 1: something like this happened. You know, like you go to

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Speaker 1: the police, you get a rape kid, like and your

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Speaker 1: perpetrator is going to end up in jail. And I

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Speaker 1: mean that is, of course, um, you know, a very

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Speaker 1: naive way to look at things. But I I just

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Speaker 1: really thought that, you know, if people used the system,

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Speaker 1: then it would work. Um. And I knew that there

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00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: were injustices, of course, but um, I thought that a

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Speaker 1: rape kit was really what you needed to prove that

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Speaker 1: you were raped, and I obviously was was very wrong

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Speaker 1: about that. UM. You know, hence the fact that almost

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Speaker 1: two years have gone by and nothing of consequence has happened. UM.

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Speaker 1: He has not been arrested. UM. The detective assigned to

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Speaker 1: my case is a university police officer. I've been unable

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Speaker 1: to get the case transferred to another jurisdiction. UM. My

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Speaker 1: rape kit actually wasn't tested until just about two months ago.

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Speaker 1: And it's another thing that people don't realize is UM

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Speaker 1: the backlog of untested rape kits in UM our country

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Speaker 1: is particularly alarming and can really slow down these cases.

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Speaker 1: And when you have a statute of limitations that you're

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Speaker 1: running against because I only have five years, UM. And

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Speaker 1: what you're we on now too, Yeah, so I only

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Speaker 1: have five years. So when it takes, you know, twenty

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Speaker 1: months for a rape kit to get tested, UM, you're

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Speaker 1: really you know, racing against the clock at that point. UM.

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Speaker 1: And luckily I was very fortunate at the hospital getting

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Speaker 1: the rape kit. UM. The forensic examiner that was there

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Speaker 1: was excellent, UM, as well as I had a sexual

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Speaker 1: assault crisis counselor there. UM actually from the organization that

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Speaker 1: I just accepted a position from so one of my

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00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: then very well known coworkers, what was there for my

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00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: rape kit prior to my first day ever at that job.

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Speaker 1: So that was a very interesting relationship. UM. But I noticed,

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Speaker 1: and I've gone to hundreds of rape kits since as

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Speaker 1: a as a sexual assault crisis counselor. UM, I've noticed

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Speaker 1: that a lot of the things that I did that

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Speaker 1: I was like really humiliated about, we're really normal now

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Speaker 1: that I've seen like hundreds of other women do them. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, I remember telling the doctor like I need

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Speaker 1: to finish my paper, like I need to go, Um,

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Speaker 1: I have this class at like nine o'clock, Like I

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Speaker 1: just I think I was just wanting to grasp onto

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Speaker 1: whatever normalcy I had. And and people sometimes people feel

375
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Speaker 1: this overwhelming urge after something like this happens to UM.

376
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: I think acknowledging and sitting in the gravity of what

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Speaker 1: just happened is so devastating that people just want to

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Speaker 1: with their daily lives. And I was in complete denial. UM,

379
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Speaker 1: but I've seen it since. Like I've seen UM, I've

380
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Speaker 1: been to rape kids where people are like I need

381
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Speaker 1: to go let my dog out. I have to I

382
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: have to go to the gym. I was supposed to

383
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Speaker 1: meet my friend for dinner, Like, I can't be here

384
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Speaker 1: all this time because they don't understand that a rape

385
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Speaker 1: kit is going to take like eight hours. UM And

386
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Speaker 1: I think so a lot of the things that I,

387
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: UM was very ashamed about after the fact with UM,

388
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: how I acted really have kind of been normalized for me,

389
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Speaker 1: and I've been able to let go of some of

390
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: that that blame that I had on my mm HM.

391
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: I felt guilty that I was kind of being like

392
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Speaker 1: almost obstructing the process of them like collecting evidence because

393
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Speaker 1: I kept needing breaks and I kept, uh, you know,

394
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Speaker 1: because they put you on these you know sheets where

395
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Speaker 1: they had me, you know, take off my clothes and

396
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: they black lit my body and they swabbed any like

397
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: secretions and they measured all my bruising and I and

398
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Speaker 1: you know, while I was standing or I just kept

399
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Speaker 1: like sitting down and crying and then like sitting in

400
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Speaker 1: all of their evidence and having you know, missing everything

401
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: up And it's just at the time, I wasn't even

402
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: thinking of it like that. But they were so compassionate

403
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: and understanding to that. But unfortunately, as soon as I

404
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: left those hospital doors, UM and in my next steps. Uh,

405
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: I discovered that not as many people would be UM

406
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: that trauma informed and an understanding as I as I expected. Um.

407
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Speaker 1: One of the things I thought was so good. I

408
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: was like, yes, you put his ads on blast because

409
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Speaker 1: I'm it was times that you saw how multiple times,

410
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Speaker 1: like I guess on campus. It was one time that

411
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Speaker 1: I guess one of your friends told you that he

412
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: was at a bar mm hmm, and then you saw

413
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Speaker 1: him on a date nap. Yes. And when I saw

414
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: that post, he got so fucking nerves. Yeah. Yeah. And

415
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: and I mean that, actually, I I've noticed I've kind

416
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: of like oscillated through a lot of emotions through this

417
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: entire process. And I would say that, um, my anger

418
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Speaker 1: at the injustice of it all, not just of what

419
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Speaker 1: he did, but also the way it has been handled

420
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Speaker 1: the aftermath, with complete lack of prioritization by the use

421
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Speaker 1: I mean, um, the fact that it's been almost two

422
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: years and they've made almost They just interviewed my roommate

423
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: who took me back to the hospital when I forgot

424
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: my prophylactic drugs mhm three days ago. Wow. And I'm like,

425
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: if you thought she had anything valuable to provide to

426
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: the investigation. Why are you interviewing her nearly two years

427
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: after the fact when she doesn't even remember, um, just

428
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: the company. And it's like, it's not like it's important

429
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: to remember. It's not like I was raped in a

430
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 1: very crime written, terribly busy area and some NYPD officer

431
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: was assigned to my case. I mean, I was raped

432
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: on a university campus. Pretty much next to someone being murdered.

433
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: That's the most significant crime that they'll investigate on a

434
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: on a university campus. And yet, um, you know, they

435
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: they've ignored my calls, they've you know, basically done anything

436
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: possible to to cast doubt while also you know, protecting him.

437
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: He was able to walk in commencement, he was able

438
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: to graduate from the university. Um, you can't even walk

439
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: across the stage at commencement if you have a twenty

440
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: fucking parking ticket from the university, but apparently you can

441
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: app you're under Title nine investigation for raping someone. Um. So,

442
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: at a certain point, I let that kind of anger

443
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: bubble into a productive emotion. And I think that as

444
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: women in particular, Um, female rage is something that's like

445
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: really suppressed. It's almost expected that men will be angry

446
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: and will process like traumatic circumstances with anger. Um, but

447
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: that's something that tends to be like pretty discouraged with women.

448
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: I found a lot of people were like, you just

449
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: need to calm down. Um, that's what I would think

450
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: a lot of like you need to calm down, and

451
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, absolutely no, I don't, UM. And I think

452
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: that my my anger at the injustice of it all

453
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: has really been probably one of the most productive emotions

454
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: that I've had throughout this entire thing, because it has

455
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,239
Speaker 1: motivated me to be there for other women as they

456
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: go through the internal adjudication process at universities as they

457
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: prosecute their cases. So I've been there for court dates,

458
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: police interviews, rape kits um because I want to provide

459
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: that sense of vigilance that I have kind of been

460
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: gifted by this entire experience because I didn't know when

461
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: things with my case we're going awry, because I didn't

462
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: know how the system worked. UM. So going through the

463
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: process to become a crisis counselor, I got to learn

464
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: so much more about how the system works, which has

465
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: helped boost my understanding of when things in my case

466
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: are not progressing normally. Um, as well as being able

467
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: to tell people like what their rights are and what

468
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: they are owed. Um, you know, and that that anger.

469
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: I still often think about that. You know. I found

470
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: his his dating profile. UM. When I saw that, almost

471
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: I literally lost my ship because I was like, no

472
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: fucking way. Oh yeah. He talks about how he's a

473
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: camp counselor and he wants kids someday. That was great.

474
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: He listens to twenty one Pilots and Cage the Elephant,

475
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: and he describes himself as kind of shy and a

476
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: bit nerdy. Um. Oh yeah, just like he's a psychology

477
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: major and a Gemini and he's a pretty good listener.

478
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: And I and I'm like, oh, the irony, considering he

479
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: didn't stop when I repeatedly told him to stop penetrating me.

480
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: Exactly the fabulous listener apparently. UM. But kay. But I

481
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: think the the important thing is UM. And I want

482
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,239
Speaker 1: to say this to like any survivor, is that, UM,

483
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: when it comes to like processing your emotions and how

484
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: you feel in the aftermath, UM, it's really really important

485
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: to understand that whatever, like dominating emotion you are feeling

486
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: at the time is acceptable and understanding. UM. Oftentimes in

487
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: the media, we see, like especially with the Me Too movement,

488
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 1: as beneficial as that is, UM, we see a lot

489
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: of people with a lot of privilege who are able

490
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to to come forward and utilize that system to our advantage.

491
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: But that doesn't really reflect the majority of disenfranchised UM

492
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: women that aren't able to do so. But UM, you know,

493
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: I I oscillated between UM, immense fear, shame, guilt, anger, UM,

494
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: even humor and just like laughing at like how the

495
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: funk is the universe? Like this utter disbelief. UM, And

496
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's really important to remember that

497
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: there is no correct way to respond. UM. Many times

498
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: people will try to use the response of the victim

499
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: and as some sort of indication of the validity of

500
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: their story. UM. It will be you know, they expect

501
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: this hysterical sobbing victor UM who remembers every detail in

502
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: perfect chronological order, UM, who feels no sense of culpability

503
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: because she knows that it was a horrific attack. UM.

504
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: Reality that doesn't. That doesn't necessarily encompass the way the

505
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: vast majority of people view and identify their experiences as

506
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: sexual assault. Many people who even experience very blatant violations,

507
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: have a hard time even identifying their experience as raper

508
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: sexual assault. UM. And then when they feel this this

509
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: guilt and shame and um sense of secrecy and a

510
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: sense of responsibility because they feel like they didn't fight

511
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: back hard enough or they didn't um whatever, they they

512
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: compare themselves to this almost like idealized victim that quote

513
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: does everything right. And then they feel like they they

514
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: are doing it wrong, like they're being a survivor wrong

515
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: because they don't have righteous anger. They are just terrify

516
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: or humiliated. And I just think it's really important to

517
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: let yourself feel whatever it is you feel about that

518
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: the assaults are the trauma at the time and understand

519
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: that there is absolutely no permanence to that and it

520
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: is an emotional web of feelings. And I had to

521
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: come to understand when I felt that like hopelessness and helplessness,

522
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: that um, there isn't permanence to that, and that it

523
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: will eventually alsole it to another completely overwhelming emotion that

524
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: I'll have to learn how to navigate. UM. But yeah,

525
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: I think you made a really good point because I

526
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: had a friend that was sexually assoicate. She had all

527
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: the guilt in the shame in the world, and I'm

528
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: like listening, there is no right or wrong way on

529
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: how you reacted. Yeah, you did what we had to do.

530
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: So it's just like and I can't I don't know

531
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: the film because I've never been a to do actually,

532
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: but it really like makes me angry how like you know,

533
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: so vibers of rape or sexual assault. It feels like

534
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: it's their fault and it's not. Yeah, I mean, I

535
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: definitely UM. And I noticed since I've talked to hundreds

536
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: of other people about it on the State Hotline and

537
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: going to Great Kids, is UM. You know, one of

538
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: the one of the things that people kind of tend

539
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: to carry a lot of guilt and shame about our

540
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: previous relationship with the assailant as well as UM. People

541
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: have a lot of guilt about whether or not they

542
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: feel that they quickly UM. But I I really do

543
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: my best to remind people that there is a in

544
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: a neurological process that handles how people UM respond and

545
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: heightened states of fear. And I don't know what the

546
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: word I've thinking for is UM. But you know, people

547
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: always talk about this fight or flight response, but I

548
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: think what people really forget about is freezing, and I

549
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: remember I made a I made a conscious decision, particularly

550
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: the second time that he raped me, and just saying, UM, essentially,

551
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna lay here and wait for it to

552
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: be over so I can go home. UM. And I

553
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: think the important thing is to be kind and compassionate

554
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: to yourself. I try to remind myself whenever I have

555
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: that really poor internal dialogue telling me, you know, it's

556
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: my fault, and why didn't you fight? Maybe if you

557
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: were fighting that he would have given up, he wouldn't

558
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: have done it a second time. UM. The reality is,

559
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: like your behavior doesn't change someone's intentions. UM. And the

560
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: important thing is, you know, I just really had to

561
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: remind myself of the fact that I did what I

562
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: felt like I needed to do to survive. And whatever

563
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: you did, what's the right thing. And if that means

564
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: you we're fighting, if that means that you ran and

565
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: got away, if that means that you froze and you

566
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: went into a sense of self protection to keep yourself

567
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: saying during that time, then that's that's what you needed

568
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: to do. Hey, guys. This week's episode is sponsored by

569
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,120
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570
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571
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573
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574
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575
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577
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Speaker 1: supports your girl now and let's get back to the show,

578
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: which only what it leads to sometimes in the outside

579
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: world is people not not believing them because um people

580
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: tend to remember trauma in a very driven towards their

581
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: senses that will tell me what they smelled and what

582
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: they heard and what they tasted and um h flashes

583
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: of things that they saw. But it's doesn't really tend

584
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: to be a statement of usually much chronology. It tends

585
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: to be a one that is very rich and sensory detail.

586
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: And I think unfortunately just the way that survivors are

587
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: questioned many times is not geared towards the body's traumatic response,

588
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: which tends to be more towards and um in these

589
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: sensory experiences. And I've noticed that when survivors are questioned

590
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: by a more trauma informed officer that is willing to

591
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: ask them to elaborate more on what was that smell?

592
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 1: And uh, you know that they tend to get much

593
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: more information and detail. But I think, UM, when you're

594
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: not able to remember things or process things in the

595
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: way that tends to be expected, then you start to

596
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: feel that, um, there's less validity to your story because

597
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: can't or won't be presented in the way that other

598
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: people expect or think that it should be able to.

599
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: And I felt a lot of that guilt because I

600
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: know very specifically what happened. UM, But there's an immense

601
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: amount of pressure when you're being questioned by investigators to

602
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: try to put things together chronologically, right. You know, they

603
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: spent hours going with me in a loop. Um. You know,

604
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: so you know they had me tell them everything that

605
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: happened in order, and then it's like, okay, well tell

606
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: me everything that happened from this point, tell me everything

607
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: that happened before at this point, tell me everything that

608
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: happened in between this and this point. Tell me everything

609
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: that happened from this point awkwards to this thing. Um.

610
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: And I felt this immense amount of pressure to fill

611
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: in those gaps where I was telling them. You know,

612
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: I know that this happened, but I genuinely don't know

613
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: where this where this fits in. I was delirious, I

614
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: was in fear for my life. I was unconsciously attempting

615
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: to completely disassociate. And I noticed a lot of survivors

616
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: tend to focus on very um inane or odd things

617
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: during their assaults. Um, I could tell you every little

618
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: bit about the cracks and abnormalities in the in the

619
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: ceiling tiles in that dorm room, but that's not very helpful,

620
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: but it um our minds contend to fixate on something

621
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: to kind of bring us away from that traumatic response.

622
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, UH, when you don't recall things perfectly or

623
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: put together, that can lead to a sense of responsibility

624
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: and guilt. And UM, really, I think you know that

625
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 1: is your mind and your body's way of trying to

626
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: protect you, and you should try to be more compassionate

627
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: to that part of ourselves that has tried to shield

628
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: us from that reality. You emphasize the emphasize the difference

629
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: between being a victim and being a survivor. Why is it? Um?

630
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: I think you know, I think different people have different

631
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: options and connotations with both of those words MHM, and

632
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: I think that ultimately people should use whatever UM feels right.

633
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: In the beginning, I very much UM called myself a

634
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: victim because I felt, UM, sometimes survivor tends to have

635
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: this connotation that you have gotten over whatever happened, UM,

636
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: and I just felt like that wasn't really encompassing of

637
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: my day to day experience as as a victim of

638
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 1: sexual assault. I UM. I didn't feel this um empowerment

639
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: and that other people were really describing with the use

640
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: of the term survivor, so I didn't really feel like

641
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: I could even use it. I almost felt like a

642
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: sort of fraud UM calling calling myself survivor UM, which

643
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: of course I realized now is silly, because UM, you're

644
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 1: a survivor at the moment that you that you leave

645
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: that trauma and you are still here UM. But I

646
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: think I think being a victim this is just my

647
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: personal perception, and I know that lots of people have

648
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: different relationships with these terms, but I think a victim

649
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: is something that tends to be subscribed to you, where

650
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: a survivor is something that you tend to subscribe to yourself.

651
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: M um, yeah, that's good. You know. I I just

652
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: feel like I remember, you know, leaving the hospital, and

653
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: you know all in the notes, you know it was

654
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, sexual assault, victim whatever. Um. I just I

655
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: felt like when I interpret victim, I tend to think

656
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: of something happening to you, which is of course what

657
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: happened in the barest sense of the word. UM. But

658
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: with survivor, I feel that, um, it is something that

659
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: happened that I lived through, and it has that that

660
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: extra bit of acknowledgement that, UM, you know that this

661
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: rape isn't just something that happened to me. Um, It's

662
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: something that I have utilized to help other people. It's

663
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: something that I have utilized to um it in a way.

664
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: You know, I'm totally against this whole like my rate

665
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: made me a better person because UM fun that. No,

666
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: it's my belief that this assault really brought out a

667
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: lot of the qualities that I already had within myself. UM.

668
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: I don't think this bestowed any thing or skill upon me,

669
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: because that would be giving him some sort of credit. Um.

670
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: If anything, I think living through this has just shown

671
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: me that I have already had an inherent amount of resilience. UM,

672
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: and that is what makes me feel like a survivor. UM.

673
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 1: But I used to kind of say, oh, you know,

674
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: I will I will feel healed when I use my

675
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: experience to help other people or when I do this

676
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: or when I do this, And I think the reality

677
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: is like, there is no healed version of a survivor.

678
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: I think at um it it's such a spectrum of

679
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: survivorhood that you know one day would be extremely empowering

680
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: and then the next day can be utterly defeating. UM,

681
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: and that it's okay to just kind of accept yourself

682
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: where you are at. UM. So now you're a rape

683
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: crisis counselor, which is I think it's amazing. Is that

684
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: difficult doing that at times? Yeah? Absolutely? UM it's it

685
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: definitely is triggering people on my on my page ask

686
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: me every single day, UM, how do you not get

687
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: triggered at your job? And I say I do, Then

688
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: how do you do your job? And I think the

689
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: important thing to remember is if I ever got to

690
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: a point where I felt so decent sensitized to this

691
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: that I did not have some sort of visceral reaction

692
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: that I don't think I should be doing this work UM.

693
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: You know, of course, there have been times where I've

694
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: taken steps back from this work in order to realize

695
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: that I need to be of the best possible service

696
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: to the survivors that I'm working with. UM. And if

697
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: that means that during their rape kit, I am reliving

698
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: my own, then that is not the best possible service

699
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: that they should be provided. UM. But to me, it

700
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: is a huge factor of recognizing where I'm at mentally

701
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 1: and emotionally to make a determination that Okay, yes I

702
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: am you know, I'm totally up to the plate to

703
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: be able to do this right now, or I'm not. UM.

704
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: And I think that involves a lot more UM introspection

705
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: to be able to to get in touch with yourself

706
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: and know that you know you're in a space where

707
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: you're capable of doing that right now. But I actually

708
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: had accepted a position to as a rape crisis counselor

709
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: prior to this happening, and then UM the hospital called

710
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: the crisis center and UM where I had already accepted

711
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: the job and had a crisis counselor come down and

712
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: and that ended up one of being one of my coworkers. UM.

713
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is I found it to be

714
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: one of the most comforting, comforting places to work, um,

715
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: which sounds very confusing to a lot of people. But

716
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: it's a complete environment of validation, belief, acknowledgement. Um that

717
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: to me. Uh, the crisis center was kind of my

718
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: safe haven, um, which I think a lot of people

719
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: had a hard time understanding, especially you know, my family.

720
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: My parents were like, you're already like living and breathing this,

721
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: why do you want to do it professionally, academically and personally? Like,

722
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: isn't that a bit too much? And it's probably one

723
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: of those places where you felt comfortable because people understand

724
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: how you feel in a sense exactly. And I was like, well,

725
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: I don't think you know. Even though you're saying like,

726
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: do you really want to live at professionally, academically, personally,

727
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: the reality is I'm already living it in all of

728
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: those domains of my life anyways. It's not something that

729
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 1: leaves me. Um, So I might as well use that

730
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: experience of living it all the time to the benefit

731
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: of others rather than just to the detriment of myself.

732
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: Um Uh. How has it been dating? Because I know

733
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: at the time he was in a relationship. Are you

734
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: still with your boyfriend? Yes, yeah, oh nice. Um, so

735
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: we have we've been together. Um. This October will be

736
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: eight years. UM. And he has been, um, absolutely amazing

737
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: throughout this process. I I definitely do know that he

738
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: he has post traumatic stress disorder from the secondary trauma

739
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: of all of it. Um. You know, he had to

740
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: give comparative DNA, be interviewed by the police. He's dealt

741
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: with them, UM, you know, in interrogations trying to say

742
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: like do you really believe her story or are you

743
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: just telling this to yourself because you think she cheated

744
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: and um, And he's had to deal with a lot,

745
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: a lot of that and a lot of anger. Um.

746
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: You know. The weekend where I was assaulted, UM, he

747
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: actually went home to get a Christmas tree with his family. UM.

748
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: And normally I would go along, but since my research

749
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: manuscript was due that Monday, I wanted to stay at

750
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: school and finish it and make sure that I worked

751
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: on it, got it proof read, all of that type

752
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: of stuff. And that was probably the first weekend we

753
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: had spent a part in several years, and that's what happened.

754
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: So I can't imagine the the guilt that he has

755
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: he's been racked with and we went to middle school together,

756
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: high school together, college together, lived together, went to the

757
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: same university, worked the same job for years. We were

758
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: essentially attached at the hips. So I think a lot

759
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: of the guilt that he felt about that was very,

760
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: very hard for me to process because of course I

761
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: don't I don't blame him in any in any regards UM,

762
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: but managing a relationship after something like this is very difficult.

763
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: It has closed our challenges UM. When this December I

764
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: had a complete nervous emotional breakdown, whatever you want to

765
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: call it. I was suicidal and intent on killing myself

766
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: and he UM, he's the one who you know, took

767
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: me to my therapist, told my therapist everything had me,

768
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: admitted UM. And I can't imagine the fear that he

769
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: felt in UM in wondering if I would ever like

770
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: forgive him for that type of thing, which of course

771
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm so utterly thankful that he did. But at the time,

772
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, when you're making a decision like that for

773
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: someone else, you don't know that, and you are afraid

774
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: of losing them. And and I know that now because

775
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: I've had to make that tough call for other survivors,

776
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: and that is never an easy decision to make. So

777
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: to make that decision for someone you love is extraordinary.

778
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: And I'm thankful that he made that decision every day. UM.

779
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 1: But he I definitely think that people underscore the level

780
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: of secondary trauma that comes along with UM, being with

781
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: someone who is struggling with post traumatic stress who's actively

782
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: either navigating the judicial system or just navigating the psycho

783
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: logical impact of their assault. UM. You know. I I

784
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: still like navigating intimacy after sexual assault is is something

785
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: that's very hard. I feel like something that was um

786
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: he was the you know, the only person who I

787
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: had ever been intimate with prior to this happening UM, UM,

788
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, because we had been together since we were

789
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: so young, and and I felt like something that was

790
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: very like sacred was was taken. UM. And And I

791
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: think that you know, when you're with someone both before

792
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: and after something like this UM, or even just after

793
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: if you're if you're with someone who is struggling with

794
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: post traumatic stress UM, it can absolutely take a toll

795
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 1: on relationship. Because he has had to learn not to

796
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: internalize my rejections of his physical affection as being a

797
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: about him in really being about the trauma. But that's

798
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: hard when someone when someone you love, when their first

799
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 1: knee jerk reaction is to push you away or yell

800
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: or tell you to get away from them or flinch

801
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: away from you, that has to be an incredibly difficult

802
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: and rejecting experience to have. And of course it's not

803
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: my intention, but of course he's going to internalize some

804
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: of that. And that's something we've had to work through

805
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 1: a lot and and therapy because it changed our relationship immensely.

806
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: I was terrified at a physical contact and I still

807
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: struggle with that a lot. You know, sometimes if he

808
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 1: um just to be sweet, you know, tries to come

809
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: up behind me and give me a hug, or you know,

810
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: sometimes even just you know, puts his hand on my

811
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: leg like that is enough to UM kind of completely

812
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: send me back. And then the other times it's fine.

813
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: And that has to be a very confusing thing to

814
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: navigate for someone, UM, not knowing if there are actions

815
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: are going to trigger or set off their partner or

816
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: are going to be totally fine. And it's like walking

817
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: around in a minefield. Um, that's become your relationship. And

818
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm really so utterly thankful that he has um, he

819
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: has stayed through everything. UM. And I never felt like

820
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: blamed or questioned me in any in any way, I

821
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: knew he saw that he saw the truth for what

822
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: it was because he's had to sit through the emotional

823
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: and psychological devastation that's followed it and um. You know.

824
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: But but navigating boundaries and intimacy after something like this

825
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: is difficult for any survivor, whether they were in a

826
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: long term relationship at the time of the assault or not. Um,

827
00:53:54,400 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: even entering into new relationships, casual relationships, friendships, um UM.

828
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: Navigating boundaries after something like this is is extremely difficult

829
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: because I think many survivors feel like um, they don't

830
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 1: feel as like empowered in their No, at least I

831
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: know I didn't, and a lot of the other survivors

832
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: I've worked with HAVD because it's like, no, it's just

833
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: something that you can say, but it might not actually

834
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: stop or do anything. UM. So I've noticed a lot

835
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: of survivors tend to just kind of passively agree to

836
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: something that they might not really want to do. They

837
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: m either because of fear of living through something like

838
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: that again, or a belief that even if they did

839
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: say no, it wouldn't really change it's gonna happen anyway. Uh.

840
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: And this could be something as simple, it's not even

841
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: just about sex. This could be something as simple as

842
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: like where you're gonna go get coffee or like well,

843
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, they're just gonna do what they want anyways.

844
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: It can completely suck the empowerment in sense of personal

845
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 1: choice out of someone. Um. And that's something I've had

846
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: to slowly, slowly get back. And UM, it's very hard

847
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: in relationships because I remember my boyfriend was just confused,

848
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: like mm hmm, because he was like you would always

849
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 1: like I was a very assertive person, and I would

850
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: always just be like, this is where we're eating dinner

851
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: and then you know, now he couldn't even you know,

852
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: get me to agree to where were we're going to

853
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: go to coffee without crying. Um. You can have a

854
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: lot of advice throughout this episode, but there's one thing

855
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 1: you believe anyone who was just rape boards trying to

856
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: overcome this is true a sexual assault situation. What would

857
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: you say, Um, Well, I think the the first thing

858
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: that I tend to tell people, UM, whenever I hear

859
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: of their trauma is um, is that I believe them. UM.

860
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: I think having validation is extremely important. However, one of

861
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: the things that I tell survivors, particularly survivors that are

862
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: planning on navigating the legal system or just navigating telling

863
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: their their families and their loved ones, is I tell

864
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: people a lot the truth does not depend on being believed.

865
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: And I have had to utilize that as a mantra

866
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: because the reality is regardless of how much you try

867
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: to convince people of of what happened, the truth already happened.

868
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: That's already written, and it does not depend on their

869
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: responses that you get. And I think that was such

870
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: a valuable lesson for me because I had to learn

871
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 1: that the invalidation and the judgment and people not believing

872
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 1: me and um does not does not take away any

873
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 1: of the truth of what happened. It just mm hmm.

874
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: It's just a reality that I've had to deal with. UM.

875
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: And I would also tell survivors that it's really important

876
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: to accept yourself where you're at into be kind to yourself.

877
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds um immensely difficult, but sometimes

878
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: when I was being very very um harsh on myself

879
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: and not not compassionate and understanding to myself. I would

880
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: try to remove myself from this situation and respond to

881
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: myself like I would have responded to a friend or

882
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: a client or a family member telling me, um that

883
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: what happened to me happened to them, and how I

884
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: would respond um. And I've kind of used that as

885
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: a gauge to tell myself, like, you know, the way

886
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: you're talking to yourself is really not not how you

887
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: would to anybody else. And it almost sounds like childish

888
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: like this, like you know, treat yourself, you know, like

889
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: how you would treat other people or something. Um. But

890
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's really important because I

891
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: think many people, especially who live through these types of things,

892
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: are extraordinarily compassionate people that would be there for their friends,

893
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: their family, um, you know, their loved ones in a heartbeat,

894
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: provided that something like this happened to them. But then they, um,

895
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: they don't accept that same help in return, right, um.

896
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: And a lot of it comes from comes from guilt

897
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: and shame, um. You know. So learning how to believe

898
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: that you are deserving of that is really it's very hard,

899
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: and it's something that takes time. One of the biggest

900
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: healing things for me has been speaking with other survivors UM,

901
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: and that that has been very intimidating. But you know,

902
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: I recommend to people like, if you don't feel like

903
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: you have anyone in your personal life that you can

904
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: tell or feel comfortable talking about, that's still then mean

905
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: that you can't relate to other survivors. That's why you

906
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: could call in a hotline and be completely anonymous and

907
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: just you know, have that experience. There are there are

908
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: ways that you can um share your trauma that are

909
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: not just um, you know, telling your personal family members um,

910
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: because that's not always an option for people. And last,

911
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: but not least, if you could say anything to your rapist,

912
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: what would it be if he was standing right in

913
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: front of you? Mm hmm um. That's that's a very

914
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: difficult question. I mean I've thought about it often, UM,

915
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 1: Like how I would address him, like in like a

916
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: victim impact statement or something like that. UM, I would

917
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: just you know, I would really want to tell him

918
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: that I refuse to take any own ship of her

919
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: or his actions any longer. UM. You know, I I

920
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: don't even like to call him my rapist, you know,

921
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: because you know, I don't own him or his actions.

922
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: And that might sound odd, but because I'm I'm pretty

923
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: sure there are other women that he has victimized, and

924
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't call him my rapist and I am not.

925
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: You know, I always say like, I am not your victim.

926
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: You don't get that ownership over me. You know, I

927
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: might be a victim, a victim of his depravity, a

928
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: victim of his choice, as a victim of your his

929
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: rage or his lack of humanity, but that is something

930
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 1: that he has to own, UM. And you know, I

931
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: would just say that, you know, a fraction if he

932
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: has to lay down with got a real fear of

933
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: what could happen to him because of what he did,

934
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: That is an absolute fraction of the um pain that

935
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: he inflicted on me. You know. So I hope that UM,

936
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: if he ever is arrested, that you know his throat

937
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: is so dry that it's hard to swallow, and that

938
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: you know his eyes staying from tears, and that he's

939
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: terrified that no one should believe a story because they

940
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: shouldn't UM, because the reality is like that, that will

941
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,439
Speaker 1: never be a fraction of the pain and the fear

942
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: and humiliation UM that he subjected. It that he subjected

943
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: me to UM. And you know, certain people say, you know,

944
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be so angry. UM, you know, but but

945
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: the reality is I've learned to to channel that anger

946
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: into a sense of productivity and into a sense of

947
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: empower proament for myself. And I think you just need

948
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: to do whatever feels comfortable to you. UM. I the

949
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: difficult thing when navigating the legal system it has been

950
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 1: that every time I get comfortable that, UM, the probability

951
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: of him being held accountable serving time in jail is

952
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: very slim to none. I don't think a lot of

953
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: people know, but only one to to rapists out of

954
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 1: every one thousand that go through the legal jail. Um,

955
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: it's not as a productive system as people would like

956
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: to hope. UM, every time I spent a lot of

957
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: is being passed, the abortion is going to be bands

958
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: like sucking crazy. Yeah, it's it's really incredible the circumstances

959
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: that were that we're in. UM. You know, it's just

960
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: that if you I actually have written like letters to

961
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: my rapist, that's something that might be like a little

962
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: too up close for many survivors. But when I got

963
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: to that place, UM, just kind of in an attempt

964
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: to strip him of some of the power that he

965
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: held over me, and I kind of give that power

966
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: over to the trauma, Like it's okay if I still

967
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: have days where I'm consumed by the trauma by what happened. Um,

968
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't give that to him, um,

969
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: even though they are his actions, because to me, in

970
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: my experience, that just feels like I'm still letting him

971
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: consume my life when he is, you know, outgoing to

972
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 1: bars and pulling you know, the same things that he's

973
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: been pulling. Um. You know, but I don't really know

974
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: if there's anything that I could say that would necessarily change, um,

975
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: who he is or why he has done, uh, you

976
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: know what he has done. Um, other than I always,

977
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 1: in my heart of hearts, I always know that. UM.

978
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: You know, while the vast vast majority of survivors never

979
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: become perpetrators, almost all perpetrators were one survivors. Um there's

980
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, so that that keeps some small amount of

981
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 1: compassion within me that I sometimes hate, but I know

982
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: that won't go away because that's just a part of

983
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: who I am. And yeah, well, I think this was

984
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: a very inspiring episode. I want to say thank you

985
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: so much for sharing your story. I'm more than confident

986
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: that you're going to continue to change the world one

987
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,439
Speaker 1: girl at a time, when woman at a time, one

988
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: man at a time, because you know, we all know

989
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: somebody that's close to us has been and a similar

990
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: situation as yours. UM. If you have any questions for

991
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: I guess, please email me at hello at the professional

992
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: home Girl dot com. And until next time, guys Later, M.