WEBVTT - 5: Cry / Dance / F**k 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey, it's Holly. Just a quick note before we start. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.120 If you're enjoying Because the Buss Belongs to Us so far, 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.560 please tell people. It makes a huge difference to us 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.039 if you like, subscribe and review the show on your 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.000 listening platform, and if you literally just tell your friends 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.439 to listen. We are on a mission, after all, and 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.599 for the sake of science, we need as many people 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:21.840 as possible to go on this journey with us to 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.639 get Bruce recognized as a queer icon. You can do 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:25.440 your bit too. 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:27.240 Because. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.040 This is episode five of Because the Bus Belongs to Us, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.000 a podcast where we acknowledge that the world is on fire, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.400 no one is perfect. And even though sometimes it's particularly 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.440 jarring for people with our politics to spend so much 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.080 time thinking about the queer credentials of a man who 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.159 neither of us knows personally and whose financial situation and 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.160 social status is simply unimaginable for us, it's also fun 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.120 and stupid and a way for us to find meaning 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:55.280 and joy in our lives. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.800 In other words, I'm Holly, I'm Jesse, and we're back baby. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:07.240 Maybe approach it from a hopeful point of view rather 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.520 than a cynical point of view, Yeah, go with open hearts. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.560 With so much data guidance from our agony anti CJ. 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.880 Ray last episode, we've decided to complete our mission to 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.720 get Bruce Springsteen recognized as a queer icon with open hearts. 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.920 Before our small crisis of confidence last episode, we decided 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:41.040 that Bruce is camp. Our second checkles point was does 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:43.680 Bruce qualify for underdog status. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.440 To which we said kind of half yes, yes, his 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.680 music makes us feel seen, and then no, because maybe 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.200 the whole checklist point and our relationship to the celebrity 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:54.120 is a bit icky. 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.800 So now it is time to investigate the next point 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.760 on our is Bruce Bronksteen a queer icon checklist? 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:07.680 Your queer icons music allows us into our emotions? Can 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.320 you dance to it? Can you cry to it? 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:10.880 Can you fuck to it? 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.639 That's Tom Rasmussin who helps us figure out our checklist 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:15.320 in episode one. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.160 Yes, a queer icons music needs to help us reaccess 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.920 the emotions we got so used to pretending weren't there 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.400 as closeted queer teenagers, which Tom's so eloquently summed up 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.480 as dancing, crying, and fucking. 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.560 Okay, Holly, one of these three mini questions, Can you 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.280 dance to it? Can you cry to it? Can you 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.480 fuck to it? Is a very straightforward. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.680 Yes, Yes, I think I know the one you're talking about. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:46.320 Okay, let's say it on three one two three? Can 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:47.160 you cry to it? 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.400 Every time I seem live it's the first time I've 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.560 ever seen I go goose pimples. You know, I'll get 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.560 emotional now. It's just when he walks out and he 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.960 guns up, and I know what's coming, and I still 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.560 I'd steal well up. See it's a credit. It is madness? 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.320 Is it really madness? 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:14.440 Please? 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.040 Welcome to the show. Our tokens Sis White straight man 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.880 to fulfiller diversity Quota. It's ser giopep Pinie aka my 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:22.880 friend's dad. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.600 I am sixty two and I've been listening to Bruce 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.280 Springsteen for most of my life, seeing him a good 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.680 few times. It's got to be in the eighties eighty times. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.600 I think Sergio runs Beppe's calf in London with his 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.280 cousin Daniello. That's what you can hear in the background. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.520 Beppe's is a fourth generation family business set up in 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.160 nineteen thirty two by Sergio's grandparents who migrated to London 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:55.960 from Italy. It's a proper classic London calf full fry ups, paninis, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.200 banging samages, tea coffee, juice delicious. I thought, if we're 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.920 thinking about whether you can cry to Bruce Springsteen's music, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.520 we had to talk to Sergio. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.960 There's always a tune that's always gonna make him weep. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.520 He came in eighty five. We saw him. Saint James's Park, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.919 Born in USA was just massive and we were in 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.280 seats at the time. I really came out. 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:21.640 I was. 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.120 Crying. I was crying. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.440 Can I ask you this about crying? Yeah, go on, 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.240 I'm just wondering about, like if you was like, it's 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.359 it's very it's kind of like ritual vibes, right, like 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.960 following someone around and like yeah, you're going and queuing 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.280 up before and like being really special and like going 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.359 to the front and then like waiting for someone like crying. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.000 I just wondering whether that's like the space in your 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.320 life where you do crying. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.880 Oh yeah, no, that's a really good point. I suppose 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:53.440 that's where that is where you Yeah, that's really quite cool. Actually, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.320 there's something that you you've got something or near mind 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.840 that you and it just literally opened everything. So my 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.720 Luke was ill. Luke was ill, we had cancel. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.080 Luke is one of Sergio's sons. He had lukemia when 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.800 me and his brother Steph were in school together. A 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.200 few years later, once Luke had got the all clear, 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.880 Sergio went to see Bruce Springsteen in Paris. It was 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:21.720 a Wrecking Ball tour. 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.320 Wrecking Ball is the last studio album that saxophonist Clarence 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:33.400 Clarence appears on he passed away in twenty eleven, and 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.640 Wrecking Bowl features the last recorded saxophone solo from the 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:37.160 Big Man. 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.880 The tour became a kind of dedication to Clarence and 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.919 all he had given to Bruce and the Street Band. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.040 They'd have his empty chair on stage lit up by 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.120 a spotlight. There was a moment each show where they 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.760 would project a montage of Bruce and Clarence on stage 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.080 together throughout the years. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.880 I remember being really close to the front of that 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.200 tour and I could literally see the tears on Bruce's eyelashes. 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.120 When Serge went to see him in Paris, one of 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.920 the first songs he played was a track of that album. 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.159 Called We Are Alive, a song that gets into the 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.760 pin beauty and hope that comes with grief. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:23.280 They couldn't talk to me for I reckon half an hour. 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:30.159 I reckon I missed the show. What is brewing inside you? 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.480 Just it must connect somewhere. There must be a release 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.520 of emotion that he sings. And then you, yeah, you 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.920 think of your family, or you think of a problem, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.839 or you think of a situation. He's got a spell 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:51.560 over the audience. 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.839 There's a couple of songs and the edge of town 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:00.360 where he's being like wailing. But does this like screaming? 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.560 And when I have like an emotion to process that 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.680 I don't have words for yet, I'll just put one 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.960 of those songs on and just scream in my room 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.480 as loud as I can. And it's just like released. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.080 Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, no nose. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:18.160 Obviously you know you were emotional. Because he's emotional, you 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:22.080 are drawn in and once you're in, it just sucks 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:22.440 you in. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:25.200 You got no chance. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.960 It tempts you to look to, it brings you in, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.600 It brings you in, chaws you in, and then you're 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:34.000 double for. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:44.120 And in your DUBFA. I think as simple as that, really, So. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.040 He do you told this he often saves up his emotions, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.760 knowing he'll get the cathartic cry of released that he 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.960 needs next time he goes to see Bruce live. 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.920 Every single time I've been to see Bruce live, I've 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.840 seen men crying, which sadly is quite a rare thing 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.120 to I. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.800 Know we've been focusing on Bruce as a queer icon, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.160 but I do think this is a real gift that 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.480 Bruce gives all of his fans, this window into accessing 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.679 emotions that, for whatever reason, are hard to face. 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.520 Yeah, there's something so beautiful about how his music helps 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.440 all kinds of people cry, not just queer people. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.400 Which I think definitely makes him iconic. But let's be 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.760 scientists for a second. Yes, of course, in order to 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.480 be certified as a queer icon, Bruce brings to his 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.920 music needs to help people access emotions that they have 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.880 learnt to repress in some kind of coping mechanism around 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:36.920 queer trauma. 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.199 Okay, well, I've released Bottled Up Anger, crying and shouting 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.000 along to bad Lands at his live shows. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.880 I've finally let myself cry after a breakup, lying curled 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.559 up on the floor listening to Drive all night. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.200 I've cried for my lonely teenage emo self dancing to 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.880 No Surrender with my friends, and then rolled right through 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.960 to continue crying to the next song on that album, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:00.720 Bobby Jean. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.679 I've cried missing an experience I never got to have 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.080 listening to Walk Like a Man. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.720 I'm crying right now thinking about how much he's helped 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.800 me access parts of my more difficult emotions over the years. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.199 You can definitely cry to Bruce Springsteen. 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:21.600 You can definitely cry to Bruce Springsteen. Next, can you 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:22.880 Dance to Bruce Springstein? 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.240 It was Shinky Shonky, a trashy pop queer club. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.079 This girl came up to me with these pomp poms, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.240 sort of femin looking girl, and she just sort of 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.080 disappeared and beckoned me to follow her. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.360 That's after the break. We're back. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.559 We've split our good music queeric on checklist point into 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.880 three Can you dance to it? Can you cry to it? 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:51.719 Can you fuck to it? 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.560 We started with the easiest, Yes, you can definitely cry 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.680 to Bruce Springsteen. Now we're on Dance. 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.959 And Tamsin. I'm one half of Unskinny Bop. 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:05.360 Hi am Rudy. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.120 I am the other half of Unskinny Pop. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.520 I took Jesse to meet two absolute legends of my life, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.640 Rudy and Tamsin, aka DJs and founders of Unskinny Bop, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:18.760 a queer club night in London that's been running for 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:23.400 over twenty years centering fat queer weirders. Rudy and Tamsin 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.520 are also a couple. You heard Tamsin starting to tell 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.360 the story of how they met before the break. When 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.560 Tamsin was in her twenties, she was on the dance 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.920 floor of this club, got a tap on the shoulder 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.079 and it's this hot fem with pomp pom saying something inaudible, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.319 beckoning Tamsin to follow her, and I was like. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.840 Oh, I was because I did not the traditionally pull 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.480 at shinky shonky. And then she just disappeared and revealed 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:49.960 this face looming up. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.680 At me that would be Rudy's face. The hot fem 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.360 with pomp poms was in fact Rudy's straight sister in law. 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.720 She probably said something along the lines of your vice, 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.440 you fancy me mate. I'd seen Tamsin across the dance 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.360 floor and I think she was one of about three 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.280 girls in the place to be killed. But I'd seen 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:10.400 her and was like, oh my god, look at that 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.040 American girl. She's so cute, and she had these like 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:13.959 cool glasses and she. 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:14.600 Just looked America. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:21.920 I was wearing a mohair polar neck so then we 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.040 ended up chatting for a bit. You had a Christina 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.240 Ricci homemade necklace on which I was quite impressed by, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.000 and we bonded over the fact that we both really 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.000 liked Letigra and yeah, and that was the beginning of 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.880 the rest of my life. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.079 Rudy and hams In are those kinds of queers that 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.240 are just properly obsessed with music. They started djaying together 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.479 and shared their frustration that they weren't seeing themselves represented 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.319 in a London queer clubbing scene. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:49.679 This is bullshit. 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.000 There should be something about like how cool fat people are. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.840 And so from that idea we were like, let's do 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.480 a disco celebrating fat people in pop and. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.280 Let's call it on Skinny BOPO. 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:01.920 At one point we were going to have a tape 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.959 measure on the door, which like you're only allowed in 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.440 if you've got past to sell, and we decided that 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.120 was a bit much, so we ditched that on and 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.240 it was like the it was the formation of like 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.280 our queer community friendship group that like as much as 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.920 much as it was about like doing unskinny boppets, how 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.199 we met all of our friends. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.199 All the people that we now consider like our best friends, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.240 who we've known for twenty years. That shared interest, that 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.040 shared politics, and shared tasting music as well, like is 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.400 what really formed those bonds. 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.400 It's just that thing of being on a dance floor 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.080 and screaming out lyrics with people and you all like 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.719 the same songs, and it's a bit too hot, you're 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.360 a bit too close together, You're screaming in each other's faces. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:44.599 It's beautiful. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.440 Queer club nights. Queer dance floors hold so much power 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.200 in this way that dancing and the dark lyric I 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.880 was so obsessed with as a teenager. There's something happening somewhere, babe. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.280 I just know that there is. That came true for 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.200 me on Skinny Up. It's where I found so much 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.760 of my queer community. And not to be all suppy, 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.959 but I actually met my partner screaming meat laugh into 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:11.560 each of the's faces at the Buck. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.319 And sometimes we know it will clear the dance floor 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.800 to play I don't notice slater kiddie album tracker like 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.320 quarters to two, but we know that there are, like 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.079 there will have been somebody there who's been badgering us 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.880 all night and they have been dancing all night to everything, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.920 and we will they. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.000 Deserve, but we do like to reward people. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.400 Are you talking about me? Not even? 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:31.520 Not even? 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:33.120 I don't know. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.440 I think there's something about being obsessive about music when 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.400 you're like technically an adult that is very queer. I 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:42.960 think some straight people do it as well, but I 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.040 think it's like quite a thing for queer people that 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.040 we like. That's part of how we do our queerness. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:54.200 In a way, this is a queer thing that actually 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.760 transcends music. I think I'm definitely someone who just doesn't 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.280 know how to love things and not amount and I 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.600 love other people who are obsessed in the same way. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.600 Yes, exactly literally, that's why we're friends. This whole pocus 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.720 is proof that we do not know how to just 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.040 casually like something. 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.640 Tams In and Rudy are obviously the same. So when 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:17.920 it came to Bruce and where the queers can dance 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.400 to his music, they had a million opinions. 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.200 I think there's maybe a longer history of femininity being 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.640 like queered, shall we say, I think it's like a 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.760 newer phenomenon as part of dyke culture to be like 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.600 queerying masculinity in a similar way, it's like that Dike 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.560 camp thing, which I think Bruce like. So you know 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.520 some of the outfits that Bruce has on. It's just 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:44.479 such classic dyke looks in terms of like songs themselves. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.040 I think it's like there's got to be a bit 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.120 of camp in the either camp or pathos, and ideally 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:52.280 like a bit of a mix of the two. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.000 A tiny producer pup in here we interviewed Rudy and 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.800 Tamsin in their home. Well, some pretty serious building work 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.160 was going on. You might hear some funny noises in 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:01.760 the background. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.880 I mean quite often we have wanted to play Born 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.600 to Run and I've said, no, it's not gonna not 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:09.520 gonna work. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.920 Like in the moment it would. We really disagree on 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.760 this point. Have we not DJed it? We must have? 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.320 But it doesn't it It dies a death. Holly is 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.360 the only one dancing. It doesn't have I'm going to 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.360 say the word that you don't like grooves. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:29.880 It's a screaming your lungs out on the dance floors. 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:30.520 That's true. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.560 That's the point of it on a dance floor, is 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.440 it's more like you jump and scream. 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.359 Yeah. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.200 The one that we've dj' the most is danced in 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:39.640 the dock, and we've never had a point where I've 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:40.160 never regretted. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:40.960 I'm not going to get this. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:46.160 I think it's the Y word yearning. His esthetic is 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.080 I am alienated from love and from society. I mean, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.320 I've got a Bruce inspired tattoo from racing in the 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.520 streets on my on my leg. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.080 It says easily found. And it's just it's just a 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.640 little gap filler. But like there's something about that. 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:07.640 Line where she wants to see me tell her I'm 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:13.040 easily found. Is like my yearning is so craven and 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.000 so desperate, and it is so obvious that it should 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.640 be this like lighthouse to the people that I want 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.920 to love me. That's how that's kind of like how 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:22.920 I relate. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:28.240 To that in a moment that. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.880 I've just realized it's darkness on the turn, not racing 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:37.200 the street. 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:38.760 But now I realized that, I was like, oh no, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.240 but you know, edit it, well, you can edit away. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:46.000 But they're both both those songs. They both convey that 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:47.600 same energy. 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.640 To me, well, they actually belong together. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.640 There's two sons really that their book and each other. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.840 It's the same character, the same woman he's singing about, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.320 the woman that's in Racing on the Street is the 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:57.400 one that's left him in darn. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:16:59.760 Thank you for validating me. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.480 Okay, So DJ Legends on Skinny Bop say yes, yes, yes, 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.280 you can dance to Bruce Brinsteen's music. And even more 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.800 than that, the lyrics have got enough queer meaning in 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.560 them that Tamsin got them etched in to her skin forever. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.800 But for tams In, just because his music is great 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.280 doesn't necessarily make him eligible for icon status. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:22.960 I'm on the fence, you know. 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.240 I firmly believe that there are like sort of five 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.679 or six Bruce songs that are queer anthems that I 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.119 love and will love till the day I die. But 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.000 I don't know if it makes him an icon. I 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.000 don't know if I would describe as a queer icon. 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:37.280 Uh. 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.399 Yeah, we're running into the same problem we had in 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.920 episode three with Naomi Gordon lerbul There just is a 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.320 difference between getting meaning from someone's songs and making the 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.000 person who wrote those songs into a queer icon. 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.280 I love streets of Philadelphia the song, was completely in 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:53.800 love with it. 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.840 Bruce wrote Streets of Philadelphia in nineteen ninety three for 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.560 the film Philadelphia, the first mainstream film to tell the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.959 story of a gay man during the AIDS crisis. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:06.920 I guess he put his neck on the line to 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.320 associate himself with a film about a gay man with 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.480 AIDS at a time when you know, a lot of 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:13.879 big names would not have touched that. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.560 I love him for that, and he's you know, he's 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.840 a good egg. Might not be a far right. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:22.479 There you go, there you go. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:25.520 Okay. 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.000 So Bruce has a track record of showing support for 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.960 the queer community, and we feel like we can dance 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.080 and crit his music. But for tams In, that's still 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:35.840 not enough for icon status. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:51.600 What would be enough? That's next, Jesse Holly, because the 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:57.080 bus belongs to us. We know that. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.439 Queers can definitely cry and dance to Bruce Springsteen, but 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.159 we're unsure about whether queer is liking your music is 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.840 the same as being a queer icon who makes good music. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.119 We are scientists. We need to dig deeper, get more granular. 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.879 We need someone on a new level of technical analysis. 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.520 I was actually just playing around with the drums for 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.399 one of the tracks in the podcast. 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:21.960 This is Alex. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.879 I make music as talk bizarre. I'm making the music 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.399 for this podcast, this delightful podcast. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.440 Alex is someone who I can only describe as a 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.320 musical witch. They understand sound like no one else. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.600 I like learned how to process my feelings first and 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.560 foremost through kind of reflecting it back to myself in 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:48.399 music form. My strongest language, I think is music and 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:53.040 sound before like a. I don't know. I'm struggling to 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:57.199 talk about it because English is my second language. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.000 Our executive producer, Jasmine J. T. Green went to visit 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.040 Alex in their music studio slash bedroom in Little Haiti, 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:06.680 the heart of Flatbush, Brooklyn. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.480 Welcome to my home, my home, my studio, the place 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.600 that I should probably leave more. Can see that I've 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:22.280 been expanded. Oohoo, there's no room. You walk in through 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.160 the doors and you are instantly met by a tall 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.840 tower of synths, on top of which is a fashionista ken. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.280 This was a birthday present when I had longer hair, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.679 and I kept it in a bun. My dad just 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.680 couldn't get over it, I guess, And so for Christmas 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:43.240 one year, I received this illustrious fashionista Ken with a bun. 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.480 This is where I've been making all the music for 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.679 the podcast where all the magic happens. 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.280 Oh my god, So the energy of Bruce is literally 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.159 in these walls. 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.560 Yeah, Alex made almost all the music you hear in 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.160 the podcast, even including the little checklist sounds we're using. 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.919 It's such a tough brief through musician to make a 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.000 body of music which is a nod to and a 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.800 celebration of Bruce Springsteen and his queer repeal without actually 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.720 copying any of Bruce Springsteen's work. 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:18.720 A fun thing that came out of it for Alex 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.760 was I started hearing Bruce's songs in a whole new light. 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:24.679