1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: and how the Tech area. You know listeners who have 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: been tuning in to tech stuff for a while. No 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: that I haven't really been terribly enthusiastic about the metaverse, 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: uh whatever that may end up being. I think the 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: main issue for me is that I recognize how that 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: you know, we're very early on in the hype cycle, 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: like we're on that steep climb. We haven't rounded the 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: peak of hype yet and started to go down the 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: like the slope of realization of what the reality is 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: actually going to be. And I think until we start 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: going down the other side, I'm just seeing too many 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: opportunities for folks to get taken advantage of, either on 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: purpose or you know, just coincidentally. But that means that, 17 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'm focusing on the near term. That's really 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: what has been concerning me. Clearly, the metaverse is coming, 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: whether I want it to or not, So maybe I 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: need to take a moment to really think about what 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: that's going to look like once it has arrived. You know, 22 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: to know that, yes, the road to get there is 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: going to be a bumpy one, but that doesn't mean 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: that the destination isn't worth going to necessarily. So to 25 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: kind of help me get out of my you know, blinders, 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: to get out of that hyper focus I have on 27 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: sort of the issues right now, I invited Pete Morrison 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: onto the show. Now. Pete is the chief commercial officer 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: at Bohemia Interactive Simulations, and Pete has been working in 30 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: the military simulation game pun Intended for nearly two decades, 31 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: and I wanted to first get an understanding of what 32 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: he and Bohemia Interactive do and then sort of transition 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: to talk about the concept of the metaverse because what 34 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: he does in many ways serves as the foundation for 35 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: what we will see in a fully realized general purpose metaverse. 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: So what follows is my conversation with Pete. I hope 37 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: you enjoy it. Pete. I want to start off by 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: just saying thank you for joining Tech Stuff. It's a 39 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. I'm 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: really excited to be here and I can't wait for 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: us to talk about simulations and and what what Bohemia 42 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: Interactive does but I really want to start off just 43 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: by saying, uh, how did you get into this world? 44 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: Did you come at it from like sort of a 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: a video game fan perspective and then developed that into 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: a career? Was it something that kind of uh of 47 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: all old at the same time as your studies. What's 48 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: your personal journey story? Right? So I started out as 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: a gamer, I guess in the late nineties, and discovered 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: pretty quickly that I was having more fun creating the 51 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: games than I was having playing them. And my mom 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: actually got me a book on programming when I was 53 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: still at high school and I was using the Commodore 54 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: sixty four or Commodore or whatever we had, and I 55 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: was I was kind of starting to build these computer 56 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: games and it was the domain that I fell in 57 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: love with from a very early age. And then later 58 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: when I joined the army again thanks to my mother, 59 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: I was actually intending to be a plumber, but my 60 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: mom pushed me in the direction of the Australian Army. 61 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: They put me through university where I did computer science 62 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: and I was involved in bigger game developments there and 63 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: then in the Army. In the Australian Army, I was 64 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: actually in charge of people who did simulation, and I 65 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: was one of the people in the very early days. 66 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: It wasn't just me who had the idea that we 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: could apply computer games and military training, specifically specifically collective 68 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: tactical training. UH. And I started working with VBS Virtual Battlespace, 69 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: which is the product created by Bohemian Interactive Simulations. I've 70 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: been involved with that since about two thousand and four, 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: and I've been with Bohemian Reactive ever since I left 72 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: the Army in two thousand and five. So as a gamer, 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: I've had a very rewarding career. Wow. And and for 74 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: those who may not remember the nineties, some of my 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: listeners are young enough where they didn't experience them. Um 76 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: like that. That was right around the era where we 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: started to see the mods space really take off. You know, 78 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: you started to see games in like in like the 79 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: Doom and Quake spheres where people started to create level, 80 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: editors and entire uh mods of the game that just 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: completely transformed the game. In fact, some games that emerged 82 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: out of that era started off as a mod of 83 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: a previous game. So was that kind of the world 84 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: you were in when you first started kind of tinkering 85 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: with the stuff. Yeah exactly, And so older people like 86 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: myself would remember Operation Flashpoint, which came out in two 87 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: thousand and one, and a big modern community formed around 88 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: this game. In fact, one of my best friends was 89 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: one of the hackers. He later became my business partner 90 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,119 Speaker 1: who pulled apart the file formats and started to build 91 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: some of the level editors for Operation Flashpoint. But I 92 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: ran a moddeing site called the Operation Flashpoint Editing Center. Um, 93 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to say, I'd like to think that I 94 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: was a little bit famous online. It was. It was 95 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: pretty big, and we had staff running that and it 96 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: was really really enjoyable. I loved Operation Flashpoint modifying that 97 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: computer game. It almost it almost cost me my college 98 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: degree because I was spending so much time in that 99 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: in that computer game. But it was that same game 100 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: engine that we took back to the military, you know, 101 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: years later, that that same Operation Flashpoint based engine. It's 102 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: called real Virtuality. And I initially hired when I started 103 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: the business in two thousand and five or so, the 104 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: people that I knew from the modern community, Like I 105 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: knew a pizza delivery person in Seattle and he was 106 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: a really good uh scenario creator and mod editor and 107 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: I actually brought him to Australia to work, uh as 108 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: one of our initial employees. And that's where I went 109 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: from my my first workers, the people who knew the 110 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: computer game. So my career and my business was a 111 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: testament to the power of the modern community. Um that's 112 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: only got stronger since then. And you you sort of 113 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: touched on it already, but can you tell us a 114 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: little bit more about exactly what Bohemia Interactive Simulations does, 115 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: like what is their mission and you know, tell us 116 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: a little bit about some of the stuff that's been 117 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: created through there. Right. So behem Interactive Simulations is a 118 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: very interesting company. And to go back to the start, 119 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: we were an offshoot of Bohemia Interactive Studio that created 120 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: that Operation Flashpoint computer game. Since then, they've added many 121 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: big hits, so to speak. The Armor series Daisy Daisy 122 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: was huge for them, which is a zombie game created 123 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: by Dean Hall that was also based upon the same engine. 124 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: And there was an Australian it wasn't me an Australian 125 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: gentleman who had the idea of building this first military 126 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: product based upon Operation flash Point. And I was in 127 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: the military at the time actually left the military when 128 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: I saw the potential of that technology and I wanted 129 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: to get on board. Uh and we started to build 130 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: a version of Operation flash Point that was specific for 131 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: the military training. And it's not training a soldier how 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: to use a rifle or how to drive a tank. 133 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: It's really training them how to think and putting them 134 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: into scenarios where they can play out training vignette to 135 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: draw out learning points. Now, when you see the soldiers 136 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: using this computer game, I'm not technically allowed to say playing, 137 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: but they're playing the game. But they're playing the game. 138 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: It looks like they're playing Call of Duty from an 139 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: outside observer. But what they're doing is navigating, communicating, thinking, 140 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: making to see as making mistakes in a very safe, 141 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: cost effective environment. And the idea is to reduce the 142 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: amount of time they need to spend training in the field, 143 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: teach them lessons that they might otherwise learn in a 144 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: more dangerous environment, potentially even in the theater. And computer 145 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: games have been fantastically successful in this particular type of role, 146 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: and so today the Human Interactive Simulations is a much 147 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: bigger company. When I started, I was that I was 148 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: the second employee. We now have thirty staff in I 149 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: think six or seven studios around the world. We provide 150 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: software to the U. S Army, the U. S. Marine Corps, 151 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: the UK Industry of Defense, pretty much all of NATO. 152 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: Now there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers trained each 153 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,599 Speaker 1: year using VBS, which is based entirely on originally a 154 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: computer game, which we've modified heavily over time. I have 155 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: to say it compared to call the duty or battlefield, 156 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: it's sort of boring because you don't want soldiers to 157 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: be able to jump in the air, to jump over 158 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: rocket launched rocket launch rockets that are coming at them. 159 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: You want them to be only able to move at 160 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: a certain speed. You want them to be fatigued, you 161 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: want them to be a little bit inaccurate. You don't 162 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: want them to be able to snipe at four at 163 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 1: a moving target in the real world that's very hard 164 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: to hit. But overall, we're quite unique and what we do. 165 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: We were the first company to to really branch into this, 166 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: and today we continue to win contracts. We've updated our 167 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: engine multiple times, our rendering engine multiple times to keep 168 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: it consistent with triple A quality. And yeah, we're used 169 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: all over the world. So I'm very proud of of 170 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: what Operation Flashpoint has begun, my favorite computer game. The 171 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: fact that we're still using elements of that original engine 172 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: is is pretty amazing. That is phenomenal, And I love 173 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: this idea of being able to use a virtual environment 174 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: to simulate things that that soldiers will potentially actually encounter 175 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: in the field, but in a way that is safe 176 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: and replicable, so that you can make mistakes without the 177 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: obviously real world heavy consequences that come with making those 178 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: mistakes when you're actually deployed, and being able to learn 179 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: that that sense and be able to actually understand the 180 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: consequences of certain UH actions. I assume also that as 181 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: UH as since you've been doing this for more than 182 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: a decade a decade and a half, that that things 183 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: have changed quite a bit in the way UH that 184 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: militaries conduct various operations, everything from updated equipment to uh 185 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, the different kinds of theaters that soldiers find 186 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: themselves deployed in. Have you have you seen a pretty 187 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: dramatic shift over those years or has it been fairly steady. 188 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: Certain things have changed and certain things have tried sort 189 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: stay the same. So if you look at a soldier's 190 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: basic training tasks, shoot, move, communicate, those of very similar 191 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: to what it was even twenty years ago when I 192 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: was in the Army. The theaters that we operate, the 193 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: equipment has changed dramatically and the capabilities of the equipment, 194 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: for example, a UAVs. I mean you might be seeing 195 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: some of the footage coming out of Ukraine. There are 196 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,239 Speaker 1: ua vs everywhere, drones everywhere, and this is a fundamental 197 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: change in the way that our forces operate. It's affected doctrine, 198 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: it's affected a lot of things, and so we've been 199 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: doing a lot of work to simulate those types of 200 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: devices and even experiment with those types of devices within VBS, 201 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: allowing soldiers to figure out how do we work this 202 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: new equipment into our tactic techniques and procedures. So, yes, 203 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: there's been a change in equipment that the basic doctrine 204 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: hasn't changed a lot. Inferguce soldiers still does what an 205 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: infant Inferguce soldier does. And then when it comes to 206 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: the locations where we're operating, what we heard very strongly 207 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: about two thousand and twelve was that the military wanted 208 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: a whole Earth experience. They didn't want a level they 209 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: didn't want to map, they wanted to go anywhere on 210 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: the planet at a moment's notice. And in two thousand 211 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: and twelve, that was pre Star Citizen, pre Nomad's Sky. 212 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: The idea of having an entire procedural planet that you 213 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: could just go anywhere on that planet and immediately start 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: training or playing, that was very early days. So we 215 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: actually invested in that in our VBS blue engine and 216 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: we built a game engine that supported that. So within 217 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: VBS four, which is our current release, you can go 218 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: to Africa, you can go to Europe instantly, and there's 219 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: quite a good representation of that part of Planet Earth 220 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: out of the box. And of course in the gaming space. Uh, 221 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: and yes, I still play a lot of computer games. 222 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: This is this has become commonplace. I mean, the latest 223 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: Star Citizen drops are amazing that the technology they have 224 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: for going to different planets. Uh. And what's changing now 225 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: is access to the cloud, so we have a lot 226 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: more uh, different data sources that we can pull from 227 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: down into the game to create higher fidelity environments. Quicker. Uh, yeah, 228 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: I would ry you were still in a pre Star 229 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: Citizen world, but maybe that's because waiting for the full 230 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: game to Finally, I have not, but I've also been 231 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: I've also been that kind of person who was like, 232 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: how many years have been have I been hearing about this? 233 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: I know that the the there have been releases of 234 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: significant content. It's one of those where um, as someone 235 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: who covers tech and and games, occasionally there there tends 236 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: to be this Uh. Certain certain gamemakers have tendencies to 237 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: really drive up the expectation not just of what you're 238 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: gonna get, but when you're going to get it, um 239 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: and Star says, and I shouldn't just you know, target, 240 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: because it's by far not the only one. I can 241 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: think of one GameMaker in particular who has quite the 242 00:13:53,960 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: reputation for driving up expectation and then perhaps under delivering. UM. 243 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: But getting back to this, I wanted to ask a 244 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: little bit more to kind of get the sense of 245 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: the scope of the simulations that we're talking about here, Like, typically, 246 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: how many people can one of these UH simulations support simultaneously. 247 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: So right now we are typically servicing what they call 248 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: battle simulation centers. UH. These are everywhere. The US Army 249 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: has eighty seven of them, I think, and they look 250 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: like a huge computer lab and they're full of soldiers, 251 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: and it's not just desktop PCs. There's also tank simulators 252 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: and aircraft simulators in these massive warehouses where they where 253 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: they train. So typically two fifty is the maximum number 254 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: that we would put into a single simulation, and that's 255 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: each soldier playing from the first person perspective, just like 256 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: in Call of Duty. We support two thousand to three 257 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: thousand artificially intelligent units in addition in our current construct. 258 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: But as I'm sure we'll get into a little bit 259 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: later once we move towards the military meniverse, we are 260 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: going to say some dramatic changes there. But right now, 261 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: that's about what we're doing, and that's still I mean, 262 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who's played any like multiplayer online like 263 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: first person shooter games would understand that two that's that's 264 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: no small shakes. That's pretty impressive. I mean, I know 265 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people who play, uh some of the 266 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: games where when they first come out have support for 267 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: maybe one hundred or more, maybe up to close to 268 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: two d simultaneous players. But uh, they often then are 269 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: the targets of a lot of criticism because there tends 270 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: to be a drop in performance. Obviously, when you're talking 271 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: about products that are meant to help soldiers train. That 272 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: drop in performance isn't really that's not acceptable because you 273 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: need to be able to have that that tool be 274 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: dependable and usable for that purpose. So um to that end, 275 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm curious, what are what are? Do you 276 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: happen to have some idea about kind of the back 277 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: end systems that are running this software, Like how how 278 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: would you compare that to say, gaming rigs today? Or 279 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: is it because we're talking about militaries are we talking about, 280 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, much lower end but robust computer systems. Now 281 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm very proud that we have forced militaries all around 282 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: the world to buy gaming PCs. I'm most only half joking. 283 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: The we use everything that a modern graphics card provides, 284 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: and in a lot of our procedural generation capability, which 285 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: means kind of automatically creating a higher fidelity virtual environment 286 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: than the data kind of gives you automatically putting in 287 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: trees and grass. Most of us have heard about procedural 288 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: generation now that requires a modern graphics card. So we 289 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: we take advantage of whatever the customer has, and I 290 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: recommend that the customer upgrade to at least the video 291 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: graphics card for example, um, we are working on the 292 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: Vulcan Port right now. If anyone's not heard of Vulcan, 293 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: you you will hear about it shortly. It's it's the 294 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: new open g l to really exciting graphics library that 295 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: a lot of games are porting to at the moment. 296 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: Gives a lot of really powerful capability to these game engines. 297 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: So we do not recommend that the military use what 298 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: they traditionally had for simulation, which wasn't gaming tech. Gaming 299 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: technology has just progressed in leaps and bounds, and there 300 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: was a time I think it was in the early 301 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: two thousand's when Silicon Graphics was delivering kind of better 302 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: hardware for gaming to the US military that there was 303 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: available in the game space. That's completely different now and 304 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: almost all of the big flight simulators that I know 305 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: of they're using Nvidia X y Z. And in the 306 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 1: gaming space, we're recommending the video gaming cards as opposed 307 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: to the professional cards, which is good because they're getting 308 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: We generally try and make sure our software will run 309 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: well on anything might in the last five years, just 310 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: like a normal computer game. So we don't want to 311 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: force our customers to spend millions of dollars on thousands 312 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: of new PCs, but we do expect to expect our 313 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: customers to stay to stay current. We've got a lot 314 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: more to come, and we'll be back after we take 315 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: this quick break with more conversation with Pete Morrison of 316 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: Bohemia Interactive Simulations. When VR was first starting to become 317 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: a thing, we saw some early very proprietary approaches to VR. Then, 318 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: because the VR hit this hype cycle and wasn't able 319 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: to live up to the hype in the eyes of 320 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people, there was a dramatic drop in interest, 321 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: and it got to the point where people who were 322 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: dedicating their work to VR suddenly found no support from 323 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: f I, financial institutions, to academic institutions, and they turned 324 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: to the video game sector in order to kind of 325 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: pick and choose things that enabled them to continue their 326 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: work in VR. So you started hearing about people using 327 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: all sorts of things like even uh consumer tech like 328 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: the Microsoft Connect became an element that VR researchers were 329 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: interested in that we that we actually was enormously important. 330 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: So so it's great to see that there are these 331 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: parallels where you might start off in this very proprietary, 332 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: closed garden approach which obviously they're their pitfalls to that, right, 333 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: because if the company that makes that thing goes in 334 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: a different direction or goes away, you're stuck with a 335 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: system that no longer has support. It can go obsolete. 336 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: Whereas when you pivot to using technology that is is 337 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: marketed not just for the military but for consumer use, 338 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: you can have a pretty strong level of confidence that 339 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: you will continue to get that support. And it's we're 340 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: just fortunate that the consumer level of of h technology 341 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: has reached a point of sophistication where you don't feel 342 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: like you're trading off right, You're not losing something because 343 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: you are no longer going in this very focused niche 344 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: um proprietary approach. I completely agree, and I have said 345 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: many times talking to various customers, we don't have technology 346 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: problems so much anymore. The technology is there. We have 347 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: endless compute power in the cloud, we have fantastic realistic graphics. 348 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: It's really now um. For example, in the military, it's 349 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: a it can be sometimes waiting for certain people to 350 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: move on, people who don't believe in game based training, 351 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: for example. Uh, there is a cultural shift that has 352 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: to happen, not just in the military, but in many 353 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: uh serious game type applications. A lot of people still 354 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: think of computer games as the annoying things that their 355 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: kids play, the wastes of time, A little bit like 356 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: my father, who I who I love, but you know, 357 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: he always viewed my computer at home as this kind 358 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: of waste of time, this box I wasn't using my hands. 359 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: I viewed it into well, a future for me, an 360 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: entire future. It was a portal into a career. And 361 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: uh yeah, So it takes time for cultures to change, 362 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: and we've seen that acceptance and I've been quite proud 363 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: to drive that change in many military organizations. Um I 364 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: would say that the U S. Military organizations have always 365 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: been forward thinking. Ah so I don't think you've had 366 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 1: that problem here in the US, but in other countries 367 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it's certainly been an issue. I can imagine. 368 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: It's so interesting that the convergence of technology was enabling 369 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: this approach on a technical level, and it's the buy 370 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: in that becomes the bottleneck for certain militaries that is 371 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: really fascinating to me. It is somewhat understandable. I mean, 372 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: I I suppose if you are someone who hasn't had 373 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: that hands on experience, it can be difficult to imagine 374 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: that it would have that level of beneficial effect. Heaven knows. 375 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: We see that in politics as well, right where we'll 376 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: see politicians who perhaps print out their emails. Uh, then 377 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: legislating tech, and you clearly get in the tech sector, 378 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: you you feel this this very intense resistance to that 379 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: because there's there's this gap between a person's understanding and 380 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: the way things really are, and yet that person is 381 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: still given the responsibility of of perhaps legislating that area. 382 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: So it's one of those parts of tech that I 383 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: love to talk about, even though it's not you know, 384 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: it's not how tech works. But you have to take 385 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: kind of this holistic view in order to understand why 386 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: is tech the way it is now and why I 387 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: are certain things in tech uh perhaps taking longer than 388 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: you might have anticipated to get you know, a larger 389 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: roll out. Um, it's because people are not like tech. Uh. 390 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: That's way back in in the day when I was 391 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: first given the assignment of being the tech head writer 392 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: for how Stuff Works dot com, which is where I 393 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: started when I started podcasting. Um, everyone was all of 394 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: my coworkers were scared of tech. They were all we 395 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: were all English literature or English majors, communications majors, and 396 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: everyone was scared of it. Uh and I wasn't. And 397 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: when people asked me why I wasn't scared, I said, well, 398 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: because tech either works or it doesn't. People, that's way 399 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: more complicated. I agree, And I mean there's a lot 400 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: of people making decisions related to computer games that don't 401 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: understand the medium. And that always shows me a little 402 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: bit crazy as a game. And my ad bossed to 403 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: parents I'm also a parent, is to play games with 404 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: your kids. You know, see what they're doing to stand 405 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: and it doesn't just apply to the computer games, apply 406 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 1: to anything. Understand if what they're doing is complete waste 407 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: of time, are they just consuming or are they creating. 408 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: If they're playing Minecraft and they're building castles and they're creating, 409 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: encourage them to do that. If they're modifying computer games 410 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: like I was, encourage them to do that. Don't watch 411 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: YouTube videos of other kids playing computer games like that. 412 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: That is arguably a complete waste of time. I might 413 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: get shot down for saying it, but that's just my opinion. 414 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: And then in Australia we have the situation where computer 415 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: games are regularly being banned by a committee of people 416 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: who I believe have never played a computer game because 417 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: of they think they're too violent or you know, and 418 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: so on. And I find that very problematic as well. 419 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: You know, so this technology is with us, it's here 420 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: to stay, and we need to all make an effort 421 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: to understand it. And I'm forty two years old and 422 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: my daughter is doing things that is already kind of 423 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: beyond me. The metaverse, for example, which we'll get to. 424 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure I kind of rolled my eyes, but you know, 425 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: we can't do that. We can't be cynical. And these 426 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: technologies on moving, uh with huge momentum, and we need 427 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 1: to understand them and grapple with that well. And and 428 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: that's a great way for us to even segue to 429 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the metaverse. And this is 430 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: going to require a lot of extrapolation on your part. 431 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: And and so this is really us kind of batting 432 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: around our understanding of what the metaverse is supposed to be. 433 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: It's a little complicated because there is no firm definition 434 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: on the metaverse. Generally speaking, I think the accepted definition 435 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: is it's a persistent um variation of the Internet, perhaps 436 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: except um perhaps it's something that is really focused on 437 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: things like virtual reality or augmented reality is a way 438 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: to interact with that persistent representation. UM, you have persistent 439 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: virtual environments where you can pretty much do all the 440 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: things that you would do in the real world, but 441 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: you do it online through this virtual environment. Whether that's commerce, 442 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: you're going to concerts, you're hanging out with friends, you're 443 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: having business meetings. Maybe you're touring a an actual real 444 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: world location, either for virtual tourism, virtual vacations, maybe you're 445 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: virtually touring a house that you're interested in buying. Like 446 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: they're all these different potential applications. But the the thing 447 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: that I keep coming back to is that if in 448 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: fact the metaverse is going to support all of these 449 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: and more, it is going to have to be such 450 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: an incredibly robust infrastructure to support that that it's it's 451 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: hard for me to get my mind wrapped around it 452 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: right now. And since we were talking earlier about military simulations, 453 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: and you're talking about simulations right now that can support 454 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: up to two fifty simultaneous human operatives and then a 455 00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: few thousand more artificially intelligent ones, like that's to me 456 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: is phenomenally impressive. It is also at the same time, 457 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: I would argue probably a fraction of what most people 458 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: are thinking of when they're envisioning the metaverse, right, because 459 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: they're thinking of essentially they're thinking of Ready Player one 460 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: or some other science fiction incarnation of this virtual world. 461 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: So what is your kind of concept of the metaverse? 462 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: What does what does that? What does that word conjure 463 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: up in your mind? Right? So, I my thinking about 464 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: the metaverse and the military metaverse has been shaped by 465 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: an article called the Full Potential of a Military Metaverse 466 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: by Jennifer Maccardell and Caitlin Dormant, And I do encourage 467 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: people interested in this and how it might relate to 468 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: the military to check that out. Uh. And it became 469 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: very clear to me that people are talking about the 470 00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: metaverse versus art metaverse, and there have been metaverse is 471 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: for a very very long time. You know. Gave Neuill 472 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: spoke about this recently in a in a in an 473 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: interview that he did and if we have an online 474 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: virtual world with the appearance of persistence, then that could 475 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: be thought of as a murder verse. Um. They quote 476 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: Neil Stevenson, a sci fi author from way back and 477 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: he says, it's a series of interconnected and immersive virtual 478 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: worlds that afford their use as a sense of presence 479 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: via agency and influence, and that was coined over thirty 480 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: years ago. So this concept of this online virtual world, 481 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: it's it's not it's not new. But what's interesting about 482 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: this is the idea of the metaverse, the idea that 483 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: there would be only one and this is an intriguing concept. 484 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: Within the military, we've been connecting simulations together for twenty 485 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: five years using various wondrous technologies. We can connect a 486 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: flight simulator to a first person shooter like what we build, 487 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: connected back to what we call constructive simulation, which is 488 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: like hearts of Iron where there's divisions kind of moving 489 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: around as icons and a map. And in the military, 490 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: we've been connecting those types of things together for years. 491 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: And what I think is going to happen over time 492 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: is that we'll see the Microsoft net reverse the Facebook metaverse, 493 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: and then these things will begin to connect because unless 494 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: they do, we're not actually achieving the vision of the metaverse, 495 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: when we're not actually reaching the promised Land, which has 496 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: a lot of potential, right, I mean, the idea I 497 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: think is really really intriguing. But the problem is going 498 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: to be that these gatekeepers that within Web two point 499 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: oh sort of one one the fight, so to speak, 500 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: these centralized companies or or companies that have all the 501 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: data centralized. Facebook is a portal onto the Internet in 502 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: some countries around the world, for example, They're going to 503 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: need to somehow work together or there needs to be 504 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: an open source, uh push that gains enough momentum to 505 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: actually become its own thing that these big companies have 506 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: to connect to. So when you think about the metaverse 507 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: as an open architecture where there are different entities and 508 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: interoperable servers kind of all interconnected vice via shared and 509 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: agreed upon interfaces, then it becomes a very interesting prospect. 510 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: So that's my thoughts about the metaverse. And you know, 511 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: I I might talk a little bit about what we're 512 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: doing in the military just because I think that could 513 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: be interesting. So to go from where we are today, 514 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: the players too, with two thousand artificially intelligent units to scale. 515 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: We are using cloud technologies and we are working as 516 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: part of a big team on the US Army Synthetic 517 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: Training environment, and they are looking at employing cloud really 518 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: in new ways to achieve the kind of scale that 519 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: the military needs for its training, but also you would 520 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: expect to see in the metaverse eventually, using containerized simulation workers, 521 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: we can scale up the number of artificially intelligent units 522 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: into the millions. Because everybody is connected directly to the 523 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: web architecture instead of being connected to a game server, 524 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: we can also dramatically scale up the number of human 525 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: participants that are connected into that military metaverse, so to speak. 526 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: So when all the metaverse hype began, I was quite proud, 527 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: especially of the U. S Army, who are already thinking 528 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: ahead and have companies like Alazon contract to solve these 529 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: these types of problems. I believe that VBS four, our 530 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: current VBS, will be the final version that is sort 531 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: of tethered to an old school game server. The next 532 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: version will almost certainly connect directly to a web architecture. 533 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: So you're seeing some really massive changes. And if there's 534 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: one organization that could make at metaverse work for itself, 535 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: it would be the U. S. Department of Defense. And 536 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: I think you're going to see almost a parallel development 537 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: along with sort of Whip three point are happening out 538 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: here in the civilian world. Uh and I think that's 539 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: quite exciting. It's almost like a rice pete and I 540 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: will dive further into discussions about the metaverse, some of 541 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: the challenges we face both in the near and long 542 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: term and more after these messages. I think we can 543 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: learn a lot of lessons through the way that the 544 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:39,719 Speaker 1: Department of Defense approaches this continual evolution of the military metaverse. Uh. 545 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: I think those lessons are ones that will be valuable. Uh. 546 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: It's I think because the military approach has a I 547 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: would argue a much more focused view on what the 548 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,719 Speaker 1: metaversees and what's purposes and what needs to do and 549 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: how it needs to do it that these are all 550 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: things that are doably beneficial. When you're actually engineering it 551 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: out right, you can start to define your parameters. What 552 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: are your what are your deliverables, what are the things 553 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: that you absolutely have to be able to do? How 554 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: can you do it the best way that supports the 555 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: most people. At the same time, these are all things 556 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: that are easy, not easy. These are all things that 557 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: are answerable. But like when I look at conversations about 558 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: a a metaverse, it's more of a general purpose metaverse. 559 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: What I what I typically don't encounter are those kinds 560 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: of easily identifiable objectives where you could see, like, this 561 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: is something you can actually work towards, like an engineering 562 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: problem you can work towards solving. And I see this 563 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: could be the issue of the media too. I don't 564 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,239 Speaker 1: want to put everything on all the companies that are 565 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: working on creating a metaverse. Obviously they're not going to 566 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: share everything that they're working on right now with everybody. Um, 567 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: it would be overkill. And no one's really certain which 568 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: pathways are going to end up being the profitable ones, 569 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: and I don't just being profitable from a financial standpoint, um. 570 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: And so there are there are a lot of reasons 571 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: why I think this is. But the problem falls that 572 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: falls on me as someone who's just kind of passionately 573 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: following developments in tech, is that I'm getting a lot 574 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: of information about the well vague information about the destination 575 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: we're heading, but very little about the steps that need 576 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: to be taken to get there. Apart from the fact 577 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: that you know, you have people like representatives from Intel 578 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: saying that in order to achieve a really robust metaverse 579 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: that allows for things like VR and ARE implementation, the 580 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: tech we have is going to need to be a 581 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: thousand times more powerful than what we have today. Um, 582 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: again suggesting that if you want to support a large 583 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: number of people in the same environment at the same time, 584 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: and we've seen that sort of with VR right now, 585 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: where I think Horizon Worlds, I think metas Horizon world 586 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: supports maybe twenty or people simultaneously right now. So obviously 587 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: that would not be that would not give you the 588 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: feeling of attending like a massive concert for I don't know, 589 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: Metallica or something. I mean, it feel great, like I 590 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: can't believe Metallica is playing for me and twenty four 591 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: other people. But but but it's But it doesn't create 592 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 1: of the experience of the promise of the metaverse um. 593 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: And so I think there's just this big disconnect between 594 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: sort of the the marketing speak and the hype of 595 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: it uh and where we actually are. And that, to 596 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: me is what I like to warn people about because 597 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 1: I fear that with that lack of of clarity, there's 598 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:55,439 Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity for people to either uh get 599 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: scammed or maybe just engage in speculation that it's probably 600 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: not the wisest choice, especially if it's you know, you're 601 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: pouring money that you can't really afford to lose into something. 602 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: The thing to get excited about is web three point 603 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: oh and sort of ignore all of the noise and 604 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: potentially ignore what big companies are doing. So Web three 605 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: point oh it's it's it's almost a redesign of the 606 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: Internet around open technologies, like this concept of an open 607 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: ledger that the technology that underpins crypto and I hate 608 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: saying it, but you know, blockchain, these technology technologies have 609 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: huge potential and you you you sort of need to 610 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: take a long view or you will get depressed because 611 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: in the short term, I mean crypto and n f 612 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: T S I'm not going to invest in them because 613 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: I believe in the short term they're they're kind of 614 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: like a scam. It's pure speculation, and I think it's 615 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: fact that n f T s R a scam. But 616 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater and 617 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: ignore the potential of these technologies is long term, and 618 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,479 Speaker 1: the web three point o vision is really appealing, right, 619 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: and it does go against I think the interests of 620 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: these companies that want to control all the information and 621 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: host all the information on their servers and and scour 622 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: through that information so they own the data that they 623 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: can sell to others. Web Web three point oh is 624 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: a reimagining in some ways, of what the Internet could be. 625 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: They called the semantic Web. Its it's this ubiquitous, open 626 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: internet that uses artificial intelligence to give you what you 627 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: need based upon your browsing history and what you're doing. 628 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: But it's designed to do this in a way that 629 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: that information isn't necessarily owned by Google. And I don't 630 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,399 Speaker 1: know a lot about it, but the reading that I've 631 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: done I am excited about because it's a vision that 632 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: I think we all can get behind, right and if 633 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: enough people understand the vision and where Tim Burners Lee, 634 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: you know, the founder of the Internet, wants to take 635 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: kind of Web three point oh, then I think it 636 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: has a chance. Personally, I think what you're going to 637 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: see in the short term is the Microsoft's and the 638 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: Facebook's kind of doing their metaverses pretending like There's is 639 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: the best at the same time as there is almost 640 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: a community driven Web three point I metaverse that begins 641 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: to take shape. I mean, I truly hope that's what happens, 642 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: because I don't want to have to access the metaverse 643 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: through a single company. I wanted to be like the Internet, right, 644 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to access it through Facebook. I should 645 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: be able to disconnect and um and there I am. 646 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: And then if I want to contribute to that, I 647 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: should own what I create. If I create a new 648 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: house using whatever design tool is provided to me, the 649 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: intellectual property of that house should belong to me. And 650 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: that's what should be stored on the open Ledger, which 651 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: obviously is immutable, you know, and everybody can see that 652 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: I created and own that house. So Web three point 653 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: I was definitely worth looking at. When it comes to 654 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: n f t S and what's happening in the short term. 655 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there is an amazing I mean it went viral. 656 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: I think it's Dan Olsen's the problem with n f 657 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: t S YouTube video. I don't know if you've seen it, 658 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: and it's an amazing takedown of n f t S, 659 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: but it's extremely shortsighted. Y. Yes, n f t s 660 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: are really bad right now, but the technology that underpins 661 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,479 Speaker 1: them is awesome. And so I do worry that people 662 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: are kind of taking a position with a very short 663 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: term view when we should be talking about where we 664 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: want to get to. Does that make sense? It totally 665 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: makes sense. I think, you know, I have repeatedly slagged 666 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: off n f t s like I have, but it's 667 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: again on the way that they're being dealt with right now, 668 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: which is largely as the speculative investment slash scam. Depending 669 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: upon the actual you know, implementation, some cases it's out 670 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: and out scams where people are just trying to, you know, 671 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: capitalize on the combination of the fact that there are 672 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people out there who are eager to 673 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: see their money increase and they have a large ignorance 674 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: of what n f t s actually are. And when 675 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: you have those things paired together, you've got marks, you've 676 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,320 Speaker 1: got targets for scams. So I have a pretty negative 677 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: feeling for n f t s in their current manifestation. 678 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: I can see the potential benefit of n f t 679 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: s down the road, just as I could see the 680 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: benefits of cryptocurrency if it ever emerged from being this 681 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: speculative commodity and turned into an actual working currency. I 682 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 1: just have never seen crypto really behaving like a currency. 683 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: I've seen it behave more like like stocks or you know, 684 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: investing in precious metals. That's the way people have treated it. 685 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: And so it's like the intent of the thing didn't matter. 686 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 1: It's how people interact with it once it gets into 687 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: the real world and and it becomes a totally different thing. Um, 688 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: So I agree with what you're saying. I also, I mean, 689 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: I just recently this past week covered the story about 690 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: how Snoop Dogg acquired death Row Records then started to 691 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: remove some of the albums and songs off of various 692 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: streaming services because of his pronouncement that he's going to 693 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 1: turn death Row Records into an n f T music 694 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: label and be the first major music label in the metaverse, 695 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: another move that I think I would say is perhaps 696 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: a bit premature right now. But at the same time, 697 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: I can see a world where the music industry tries 698 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: to get behind the idea of UH and n f 699 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: T approach as opposed to streaming or the classic download 700 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: digital store model. I don't know if that's going to happen, 701 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: but it's certainly potentially. You know, it's a possibility with 702 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: all this focus on the metaverse. I also agree with you. 703 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't want a world where a massive company has 704 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 1: created UH the gateway to the metaverse, or I would 705 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: argue even worse, you could have siloed metaverses that don't 706 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: have any connectivity between them. You could have the Microsoft 707 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: metaverse or the Facebook metaverse, which just kind of creates 708 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: splintered internets. UM. It makes me think of like back 709 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: when before Facebook dominated all of the social networks, you 710 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: went to wherever your friends were, so like, I was 711 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: on my Space holdout for a long time because I 712 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: was out of college by the time Facebook came around. 713 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't get into Facebook when it first started because 714 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 1: it didn't have a college email address. I was on 715 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: my Space and I was thinking I was Facebook thing, 716 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: that's flash in the pan. It's never gonna be like, 717 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: it's never gonna stick around. Um, But you know it 718 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: does create like like you either get into a scenario 719 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: where ultimately these entities have to work together to integrate 720 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: their uh their their interfaces so that you can pass 721 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: between these or you get to a point where no, 722 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: they decided they're going to stick it out. They're just 723 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: going to pummel the competition until they're the only one 724 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: left standing. Neither of those are particularly good for the 725 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,800 Speaker 1: individual user. UM. I also think that an open source 726 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: approach would be ideal, like having that having everyone agree 727 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: you know, it makes way more sense for us to 728 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: all focus on open interoperable standards so that we don't 729 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: have this painful process where everyone's fighting for dominance, nothing 730 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: is portable from one experience to the other, and the 731 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: consumer is just kind of left holding the bag. I 732 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: have a lot of faith in the Internet, and you 733 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: need to almost go one step below the hype. Right. 734 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: So n f T s speculative asset, lots of scams, bad. 735 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,399 Speaker 1: But the idea that I have data that everybody can see, 736 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: that diet of his mind, and it's stored for everyone 737 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: the Internet and can't be deleted, it can't be changed, 738 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: like that's that's kind of a cool concept, right. So um, 739 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: I was I was reading about are We've or are 740 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: we've a r W E A v E dot org 741 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: and they're trying to make make it a little bit uh. 742 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,439 Speaker 1: I guess makes sense in the sense that you could 743 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 1: store like an entire document, so to speak. At the moment, 744 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: you can only saw like a little bit of text 745 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: like a U R L in the n f T. 746 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: But what if you could actually store a document? What 747 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: if you could store more data? And there are these 748 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: initiatives that I'm very excited about that are looking at 749 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,799 Speaker 1: the problems and trying to solve them and do it 750 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: in an open source way, right, So I'm really excited 751 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 1: about about that. I think that's you know, for the military, 752 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: just kind of bring it back to what the military 753 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 1: is doing. You know, they're going to go a different route. 754 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 1: The biggest problem with the blockchain approach is the fact 755 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: that everybody can see the ledger, right, there's no concept 756 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: of security, and one of the things that slows the 757 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: military down, uh in anything I t related is security 758 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 1: for very good reasons obviously, and there are very big 759 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: contracts with certain companies for secure clouds and the like. 760 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: So I think that figuring out where blockchain technology actually 761 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: is useful and where it simply adds overhead uh and 762 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: is not necessary it's really is really important as as well. 763 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: And I think every Internet user is almost obliged to 764 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: do their research a little bit. I don't I'm not 765 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: saying that people should sign a do a training course 766 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: in order to access the Internet, but and I guess 767 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: it would start at school, but it would definitely help. 768 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: Like everybody needs to do the training that my company 769 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 1: makes me do you know, twice a year. The anti 770 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: scam UH anti phishing training. I feel like that sort 771 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: of mandatory, especially for grandmother's I think they would really help. Yeah, again, 772 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: it gets to that, it gets that that target of 773 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: opportunity for scam artists, right like ignorance is one of 774 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,720 Speaker 1: the biggest opportunities that that cons have when it comes 775 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,200 Speaker 1: to pulling off their scams. The more the less aware 776 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: someone is of something, less educated they are in something, 777 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 1: the more likely you're going to be able to take 778 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,439 Speaker 1: advantage of that. And so but that I mean, we've 779 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 1: also seen that in pretty much every security story that's 780 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: out there. You typically, when you really get to the 781 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,360 Speaker 1: end of most, not all, but most computer security stories, 782 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 1: you ultimately get to someone somewhere fell victim to a trick. 783 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: And that's how the Hollywood version of someone trying to 784 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: log into a server and typing in a password, getting 785 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: two incorrect ones and the third one works almost never happens. 786 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: You do have brute force attacks that occasionally happened, but 787 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: they are pretty hard to do. If you're talking about 788 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 1: even semi sophisticated security systems, it's far more likely that 789 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: someone somewhere got compromised um one way or another. And 790 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: we can just apply that across the board for everything, 791 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: like not just for basic computer security, but pretty much 792 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: all like Internet etiquette could could benefit from people having 793 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:17,280 Speaker 1: that level of Oh, I understand what the bad guys 794 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,279 Speaker 1: are looking to do, like how they're looking to exploit it, 795 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 1: and by understanding what they're looking for, I have a 796 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: better appreciation for various processes. I know that if someone 797 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: calls me up claiming to be from the I T 798 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,720 Speaker 1: department and they want my admin admin level name, login 799 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 1: and password, probably it's best not to give it to 800 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: them straight away. We've got a bit more to go 801 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 1: with our look at the future of the metaverse, but 802 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: first let's take this one last break. I love this 803 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: conversation Pete, largely because, like I have been so kind 804 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: of laser focused on the issues that I see with 805 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,080 Speaker 1: the metaverse that it it often can be hard for 806 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: me to step away from that and say, well, you know, okay, 807 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,320 Speaker 1: yes there are problems that have to be solved before 808 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: we get to that destination, but that doesn't mean the 809 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,359 Speaker 1: destination isn't worth going to. That's where I can kind 810 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,239 Speaker 1: of lose my way. Sometimes I get so focused on, 811 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 1: you know, worrying about big tech playing too large a 812 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: role in this, or worrying about the scam artists who 813 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: are taking advantage of people when there is a lot 814 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: of excitement around this idea, or worrying about companies that 815 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: might be investing heavily in a future but without without 816 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: a clearly communicated pathway for how they want to get there. 817 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,560 Speaker 1: Those are the things that kind of worry me, just 818 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,839 Speaker 1: because I see it as opportunities for this to take 819 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: longer than it should honestly, Um, but with your talking 820 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: with you, I feel better about that because I do 821 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,359 Speaker 1: think that you know we are going to get it there. 822 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,440 Speaker 1: The question is just like how much how much garbage 823 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,399 Speaker 1: are we going to get to go through before we 824 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: hit that destination. Hopefully, by the time that we start 825 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: seeing metaversees uh like common youth general purpose metaverses start 826 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: to really take off, I'll still be interested and I 827 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: won't have turned into a luddite hermit who lives in 828 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,440 Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah, it's very easy to be cynical about it, 829 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 1: especially if you're like an older gamer. We've all seen 830 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,799 Speaker 1: Second Life, we've all played massively multiplayer online games, and 831 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: the first inclination is too eye roll. When you speak 832 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,399 Speaker 1: to someone who's just learned about the metaverse and they've 833 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: never played a computer game in their life, but this technology. 834 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,360 Speaker 1: I mean, my advice to companies that are interested in 835 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: investing in this area is is to look at the 836 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: problems that we're seeing in the short term, you know, 837 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: the security issues, the problems within n f T s, 838 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,320 Speaker 1: and invent ways to solve those problems. Uh. And I 839 00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: mean you probably end up selling a business to fight 840 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,319 Speaker 1: this book, but ideally contribute to some of these these 841 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: some of these organizations. I mean, you know, that's I 842 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: think that's the best thing you could do right now 843 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 1: if you're kind of a tech entrepreneur Personally at Bohemia, 844 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: we are looking at the terrain aspect. So the idea 845 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,440 Speaker 1: that a metaverse requires one of two types of terrain. 846 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,800 Speaker 1: Either it's a full on fantasy land, which is totally fine, 847 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's what the Internet is amazing for, 848 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 1: and computer games are amazing for just building these fantasy lands. 849 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 1: But but also there will be a in our opinion, 850 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,799 Speaker 1: a need for really realistic, a really realistic virtual earth 851 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: where you can kind of build your own house in 852 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 1: the metaverse in the same location as your house is 853 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,279 Speaker 1: in the real world. So we are doing a lot 854 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: on the terrain side. We have a lot of technology 855 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,400 Speaker 1: related to streaming terrain from the cloud and processing that 856 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: terrain and procedurally enhancing it and getting it out to 857 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,319 Speaker 1: multiple different simulation engines. Obviously focused on the military, but 858 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: it has applicability outside the military as as well. So 859 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: I really do think this is an exciting area. And 860 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: but to get involved and just jump on the HiPE 861 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: without kind of understanding. I mean, how many companies were 862 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,879 Speaker 1: selling blockchain stuff five ten years ago with no real 863 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: idea of what that was. Um, yeah, you really do 864 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,840 Speaker 1: need to to look at it. I think especially the 865 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: tech investors are sort of smarter than ever. And um, 866 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: even as I was sort of researching to talk to you, 867 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: it became clear that it's just moving so so fast 868 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,920 Speaker 1: it is hard to keep up with it. There's no 869 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: there's no doubt. Yeah. I actually taught to one of 870 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: my co workers yesterday and I said, the weird thing 871 00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: that I'm going through right now, the weird realization I'm 872 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: going through is that you know, we're uh, like ten 873 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,680 Speaker 1: years ago, the big concept in tech, like the far 874 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,400 Speaker 1: off future concept of tech that was a conversation that 875 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,240 Speaker 1: was just going was about the onset of the singularity, 876 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 1: this era where technology is changing so quickly you can't 877 00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,879 Speaker 1: even define the present. And I said, here's the weird thing, 878 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: because I think part because of the pandemic, which forced 879 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: a lot of companies to go through very rapid evolution. 880 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 1: They started to adopt practices and processes and technologies that 881 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: maybe they had been considering but perhaps was on like 882 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,359 Speaker 1: maybe a five year plan, and they ended up saying, well, 883 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,319 Speaker 1: we got to do it now because we have to 884 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,640 Speaker 1: be able to continue to do business in a world 885 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: that's completely changed. And we saw such an incredibly rapid 886 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: evolution that is continuing because now the companies are saying, well, 887 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense to go back to where we were. 888 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,839 Speaker 1: It makes way more sense to build upon what we've 889 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,759 Speaker 1: learned just trying to get through the pandemic. So it's 890 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,319 Speaker 1: a very exciting time. I said, It's it feels to 891 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: me like we might be in the singularity now. It's 892 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, maybe in the maybe in the future will 893 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,959 Speaker 1: look back and say like, yeah, no, that's what it began. 894 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,839 Speaker 1: We just couldn't tell because we were too we were 895 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: in it. But but I feel like that's kind of 896 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,400 Speaker 1: where we are. It's not the science fiction version of 897 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 1: the Singularity. It's not like we're all, you know, playing 898 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: Shadow Run for real and plugging directly into computers and 899 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,480 Speaker 1: injecting our consciousness into the Internet. But but it feels 900 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: like we we are almost in this this cycle of 901 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: such rapid change. The just defining what's happening now is 902 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,399 Speaker 1: a huge challenge, let alone kind of projecting out what's 903 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,399 Speaker 1: it going to be in five to ten years. Yeah, 904 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: ignoring the noise is certainly hard. I mean, within my 905 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: little industry, there's a lot of hype around hardware as well, 906 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: so the latest VR or m R a R headset. 907 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 1: And for me personally, what helps is within my industry 908 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: is to identify what we're trying to do. The heart 909 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: of my business is training soldiers. Do soldiers need device 910 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: X cloud y in order to train? Will it make 911 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,800 Speaker 1: them train better? And so for me, I get the 912 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: luxury of doing that assessment against any new technology that 913 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 1: comes along within bohemiteractive simulations. And it's been very interesting 914 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: for me to see hype even within military simulation about 915 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,520 Speaker 1: for example, VR headsets via hype ramped up a few 916 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,480 Speaker 1: years ago, many many computer games were created. A lot 917 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 1: of game developers were very unhappy with the profits that 918 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,560 Speaker 1: they got from that because the market was so inundated 919 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: with VR games. I think a lot of people were 920 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: just like me. I bought an expensive v I headset, 921 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,919 Speaker 1: I played a game, I got a headache, I put 922 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,000 Speaker 1: it back down and went back to my PC. Maybe 923 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: it's because I'm forty two and too old to quite understand, 924 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,759 Speaker 1: but VA headsets were kind of a painful experience for 925 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of people. Now Here we 926 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,440 Speaker 1: are today, and instead of just pure virtual reality headsets, 927 00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,240 Speaker 1: we now have mixed reality headsets where we can similar 928 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 1: to Microsoft holl of lends, we can mix the virtual 929 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: in the real world. It's a much more pleasant experience 930 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,880 Speaker 1: for the operator. You don't get a headache as quickly, 931 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,280 Speaker 1: and we're seeing for the first time, for example, pilots 932 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,280 Speaker 1: saying on yeah, this could potentially work, whereas up until 933 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: one or two years ago, the pilots were saying Nope, 934 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: unless it's a big dome with images projected on a screen, 935 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to use VR. So we are beginning 936 00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: to see changes, but but these changes come slowly, like 937 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 1: they don't come quickly, and it's very interesting for me 938 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 1: to go back and look at presentations from futurists in 939 00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,720 Speaker 1: the past. I mean, I've been doing this almost twenty years, 940 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I think that the progress has been 941 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,479 Speaker 1: steady within our little area. Obviously, things like social media 942 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,239 Speaker 1: sort of exploded, uh, and you never know when the 943 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,960 Speaker 1: next explosion is going to be. But with for me personally, 944 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: what I've done to focus our business is just how 945 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 1: do we how do we do our thing better? How 946 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 1: do we train soldiers better? And if it doesn't do 947 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: that thing, then it's useless or potentially useful for marketing. 948 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,800 Speaker 1: And that's about it. And that's the sort of approach 949 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: I want to see kind of adapted across the industry. 950 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,919 Speaker 1: I feel like with that approach, you're able to work 951 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,280 Speaker 1: towards that goal. More concretely, you're more likely to achieve 952 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: the goal than if you have a more vague definition 953 00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,920 Speaker 1: and no one's really sure one what you mean, and 954 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,920 Speaker 1: even if they kind of have a grip on what 955 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,319 Speaker 1: you mean, they're not sure how to get there. It 956 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,040 Speaker 1: makes me think I have a background in acting, and 957 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 1: I once had a director jokingly give me the least 958 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: helpful direction I have ever heard. But it was a 959 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,440 Speaker 1: joke where he said, Jonathan, could you act more? Which 960 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,880 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything at all, Like it doesn't mean anything, 961 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 1: but it was. It did make me laugh. Um, and 962 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: then later he gave me very concrete direction that was 963 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,680 Speaker 1: actually helpful. But that's that's the way I feel that 964 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: a lot of companies are kind of taking this, or 965 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,960 Speaker 1: at least that's the communication. Again, I shouldn't project too 966 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,200 Speaker 1: much on the company's A lot of this comes from 967 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,760 Speaker 1: press releases, which might be drawn up by someone who 968 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,160 Speaker 1: is working from bullet points, or it might come from 969 00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,719 Speaker 1: the media, where you've got, you know, another degree of 970 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,840 Speaker 1: separation from the actual source. Uh. I am trying to 971 00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,600 Speaker 1: be a little more gracious in my uh in in 972 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:19,320 Speaker 1: the way I analyze the metaverse. H Pete. I have 973 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,640 Speaker 1: to say it has been a real pleasure to have 974 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,720 Speaker 1: you on the show. I could have you back and 975 00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,760 Speaker 1: we can chat about computer games as much as you like. 976 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,320 Speaker 1: I love computer games. They're they're amazing. I still play them. 977 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: I I think I'll be the guy in the nursing 978 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 1: home when I'm playing the computer game. You know, I 979 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,400 Speaker 1: just can't. It's such an important part of my life. Um, 980 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 1: everything that I have is a result of computer games 981 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,200 Speaker 1: and the amazing people that are behind them. So um, yeah, 982 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,920 Speaker 1: I recommend people play more games well out of curiosity 983 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 1: before I before I let you go, what's a computer 984 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: game that you're currently playing. Doesn't have to be your favorite, 985 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,560 Speaker 1: but something that you go to. So I just played, uh, 986 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,920 Speaker 1: Space Engineers. Because I have a gramming background, you can 987 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:07,120 Speaker 1: actually like program awesome, awesome inventions in Space Engineers. It's 988 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,000 Speaker 1: like it's like it's like Minecraft, but a little bit 989 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,520 Speaker 1: more for forty two year old men. Say so, I 990 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,640 Speaker 1: love I love computer games that where you have to create, 991 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 1: and I've really enjoyed that. I've been playing Star Citizen, 992 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,120 Speaker 1: which I do recommend people check out. It has come 993 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,680 Speaker 1: a long way. I I've enjoyed it. I've played it 994 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,400 Speaker 1: for about a hundred hours and it's been in a 995 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,840 Speaker 1: positive experience. And so I used to be very pessimistic 996 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: about their chances. Now I'm just kind of lukewarm. So 997 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,440 Speaker 1: we'll see when that goes. Just two more elden Ring. 998 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,400 Speaker 1: Elden Ring, Oh, yeah, of course. I mean that's like 999 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,120 Speaker 1: the big one right now. Now I have to play it, 1000 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,840 Speaker 1: have to play it now, I love it. A big 1001 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: fan of the Soul series, so I love I love 1002 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,080 Speaker 1: Elden Ring. And then I have been playing the computer 1003 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,160 Speaker 1: game that's got banned in Australia Rim World. So I'm 1004 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,240 Speaker 1: sorry to my Australians. Uh, you guys can't get that game, 1005 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,880 Speaker 1: but it is. It is fantastic, excellent. As for myself, 1006 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: In case anyone's curious the game, I go to game 1007 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: because I can play a level and then like bounce 1008 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,040 Speaker 1: off Not Tonight too. If you ever wanted to be 1009 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,320 Speaker 1: a bouncer in front of a nightclub. It's kind of 1010 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: like Papers Please. It's one of those games where you're 1011 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: like checking stuff against data that's in your hand. Um. 1012 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,360 Speaker 1: I know I'm not really selling it the best way here, 1013 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,440 Speaker 1: but it's I really love those games. I was a 1014 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,280 Speaker 1: big fan of Papers Please, and a big fan of 1015 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: the first Not Tonight and this one. There's a lot 1016 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,479 Speaker 1: of pretty heavy handed commentary in it, but I'm really 1017 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,960 Speaker 1: enjoying it. Choice, the amount of is amazing. What's available, well, yeah, 1018 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,560 Speaker 1: and if you dive into the independent gamer like the 1019 00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 1: stuff that's just being released directly to the internet, and 1020 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,320 Speaker 1: like you go to place like ich e O or 1021 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:47,120 Speaker 1: something like that it is beyond overwhelming to see that, 1022 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,160 Speaker 1: like you're gonna be spoiled for choice when it comes 1023 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,320 Speaker 1: to innovative experiences. UM. Yeah, I'll definitely have to have 1024 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,720 Speaker 1: you back. We'll have a rap session about like computer 1025 00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: games and the various eras and the standout and things 1026 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,040 Speaker 1: of that nature. But for now, I should probably let 1027 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,720 Speaker 1: you get back to creating virtual worlds, uh and and 1028 01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,919 Speaker 1: doing what you do best. Thank you again for being 1029 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,160 Speaker 1: on the show. My pleasure, Thank you. Thanks again to 1030 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Pete for being on the show. I think it's important 1031 01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,640 Speaker 1: to chat with folks who have a different perspective on topics, 1032 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,040 Speaker 1: particularly people who are kind of in the thickest things, 1033 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, and something that's at least related to that topic. 1034 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Pete certainly has, you know, tons of experience building out 1035 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,600 Speaker 1: platforms that allow for numerous people to congregate in a 1036 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: virtual space. I don't have that experience, so getting his 1037 01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,920 Speaker 1: insight was invaluable. I'll likely have to do a future 1038 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,560 Speaker 1: episode about web three uh, you know, Web three point oh, 1039 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,200 Speaker 1: which is another tech concept that I have some concerns about. 1040 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,160 Speaker 1: I like the idea behind web three point oh. I 1041 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,920 Speaker 1: think the idea is a very strong one. It actually 1042 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,920 Speaker 1: kind of the same way. I think the Internet idea 1043 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,920 Speaker 1: is a very strong one, this giant communications network that 1044 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,400 Speaker 1: democratizes so much of what previously had been siloed. However, 1045 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I do have some concerns that what we're gonna see 1046 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,600 Speaker 1: in practice with Web three point oh will effectively be 1047 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,480 Speaker 1: the same old song played on new instruments. Uh. In 1048 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 1: other words, that some new parties will end up becoming 1049 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:28,720 Speaker 1: the sort of uh, centralized monoliths of that particular incarnation 1050 01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 1: of the Internet or the Web. But you know, that's 1051 01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,880 Speaker 1: another topic for another episode, and I'll probably reach out 1052 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,360 Speaker 1: to someone who has more experience in that to kind 1053 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,320 Speaker 1: of address some of my concerns and explain where I 1054 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,120 Speaker 1: may or may not be off base. So look forward 1055 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,320 Speaker 1: to that. I don't have anything firmly in the works 1056 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: on that right now, so it might be a little 1057 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,920 Speaker 1: bit before I get it, but I really want to 1058 01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,640 Speaker 1: get my head wrapped around the whole thing and just 1059 01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that the the concerns I have are 1060 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,320 Speaker 1: either merited or maybe that it's based off of misunderstanding, 1061 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,680 Speaker 1: which is entirely possible. I don't magically understand everything right away, 1062 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,480 Speaker 1: but in the meantime, If you have suggestions for guests 1063 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 1: that I should have on this show in the future, 1064 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,920 Speaker 1: or topics that I should cover on tech Stuff, please 1065 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 1: reach out to me. The best place to do that 1066 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: is over on Twitter, where we use the handle text 1067 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,600 Speaker 1: stuff h s W and I'll talk to you again 1068 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:33,800 Speaker 1: really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. 1069 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i 1070 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,240 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 1071 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.