WEBVTT - Ep. 46: Donnie Vincent 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.240 Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number forty six of The 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.520 Hunting Collective. I'm Ben O'Brien and I'm joined today by 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:14.840 Donnie Vincent. Donnie Vincent is a biologist, slash filmmaker, slash 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:20.680 world adventurer who creates some pretty awesome films. Has a 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.120 new film out called The Other Side, which is an 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.640 hour and twenty minute long feature film about his bear 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.760 hunting adventures up north. It's a great conversation. Donnie is 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.960 is sneakily smart dude, and and has been around the 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.040 world and done some amazing things and collected some pretty 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.200 awesome perspectives in doing so. So it was a pleasure 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.360 to be joined by him in Las Vegas, durning shot 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.680 show hang Out to talk shop to learn a little 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.400 bit about his story and his perspectives. So enjoy episode 0:00:54.480 --> 0:01:02.960 number forty six. Donnie Vincent, Hey, Donny, Hey man, what's 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.440 going on? Man? Just enjoying your awesome hotel room? Are 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.640 you impressed by it? The Mediator? The Mediator budget is 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.520 apparently doing well. It's doing well. I just noticed there's 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.000 a phone in your toilet, So there's no phone in 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.720 in my toilet. Yeah, so this is well listen. You 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.000 never know what's gonna happen in there. Yeah. Yeah, your 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.680 legs could fall asleep. I was in there and I thought, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.280 what would you need a phone in the toilet? And 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.320 then I thought, hey, you know maybe falling you can't 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.360 get up? Yeah, because you've ever been on there, you're 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.000 you're doing your business and your leg might fall asleep. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.160 You got a call for help if you compartment syndrome, Yeah, yep, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.520 he's falling around you don't know, or you got order 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.039 a pizza. Things you could do, and then I bet 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.679 it's been done. I'll bet you a large sum of 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:51.040 money a pizza has been ordered on this. So you think, yeah, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:52.920 I mean, if you if you're if you've never been 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:57.280 in like the Venetian sweets, like we're in right now, um, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.000 and you come in when you feel pretty you're like, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.200 it's going pretty pretty well. It's nice. You're you've done 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.880 something different, right, you're making feature length film which which 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.560 um with the rivers, divide with your new film on 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.200 the other side, like these these are this is a 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.799 different way to do it, right, yes, and we um 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:17.160 you know, and I can sit here and say this 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.120 in this chair and and nobody's the wiser other than 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:25.920 my crew. But you know, we film everything with absolute truth. Right, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.560 If I miss we show it. If I wounded animal, 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.360 we show what. I went through several years and I 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.640 didn't talk about it on camera at all because I 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.600 didn't understand it at first. But I went through several 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.320 years of target panic, and I went through years and 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.720 years and years of being an archer, and I'll absolutely 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.120 i'd I'd sit with a group of guys and they'd say, hey, 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.520 if you haven't, you know, if you haven't missed an animal, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.359 you know you haven't, you haven't hunted enough. And I'd say, oh, yeah, absolutely. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.480 But it's funny because my first several years of being 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:58.920 an archer, I never missed. I never not just absolutely 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.519 slam dunk shot animal. It went a very short distance 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.760 and fell over dead. It never happened to me because 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.520 I was taking close shots. I was taking very measured 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.000 shots because I was unsure of myself as an archer. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.200 So I've come to full draw and I'd literally find 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.400 my anchor point, which I didn't even know what that was. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.600 I'd look at the deer, I'd put my pin behind 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.600 his shoulder or whatever it was. I was shooting bear 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.000 or whatever. I put my pin behind his shoulder and 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.280 then I remember when I was younger several times, and 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.720 obviously this isn't being filmed, but I would literally back 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.359 my face off of my bow and just look like, okay, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.320 release my arrows, knocked on the rest strings on the camp, 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.280 everything okay, and I leaned and shoot the deer and 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:40.960 it'd run off and died. So I'd sit with these 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.200 guys and they'd say, oh, yeah, I mean, if you 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.400 haven't wounded, you haven't hunted enough. If you haven't missed 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:47.880 a deer, you haven't hunted enough, you know. And I'd 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.160 agree with them, oh yeah, yeah, But really I was 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.600 the guy in the room that hadn't done that yet yet. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:56.120 Then it happened to me once, and then it happened 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.480 to me twice. Then it happened to me three times. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.720 And then I was shooting in an archery league and 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.000 my partner got target panic, and I'll never forget he 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.480 asked me one time, Um, we were just shooting at 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.080 twenty yards and he said, hey, um, when you're bringing 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.040 your pin up to the bull's eye and it's blow 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:19.359 the bull's eye, what do you do you know, I'm thinking, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.040 you raise it up to the bull's eye and then 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.679 shoot the bull's eye and he's like, yeah, I can't 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.960 do that. My boat gets really heavy, and I thought, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.320 is this a joke? And then fast forward I got it. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.159 And then of course I'm trying to establish this career, 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.760 not not to be famous, not to sign hats, not 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.600 to do anything other than I wanted to hunt. And 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.160 when I would hunt, people would ask me stories about 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.240 what happened. And I love telling the stories about what happened. 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.680 And I even loved even more so when I'm hunting. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.839 I I love long form hunting. I love going places 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.640 for days, so I love telling people about And then 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.280 and then this is all the river fro is up 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.000 and it was cool. You know. I got up one 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.359 morning in the rivers, just covered in skim ice, and 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.560 there's a bull moose and he was grunting on the 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:08.960 other side of the river, and I can see steam 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:10.880 pouring out of his nose. I wasn't even hunting moose, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:13.240 but here I am ten minutes into a story about 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.000 this moose blowing steam out of his nose, and people 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.160 just sit there and I looked around the room and 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.279 I'd see people just sitting there kind of wide eyed, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.320 you know, and they're like, you're a great storyteller. And 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.479 I said, oh, oh, thank you, you know, and I 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.880 just move on and and I would do these things. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.960 And then and then as I started doing these films 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:37.560 and and developed into having target panic, I just ran 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.320 into uh mess. And so we just started did you 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:43.680 ever have a time or you had to? You had 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.520 discussion with your team, you got a talent, the team 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.880 of guys around you that film and edit, like should 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.200 we show this wom Yes, just conversations like you know, 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.120 what do we do now? Yes? Too. I'll give you 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.880 two examples. One in The River Divide. In The Rivers Divide, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.120 Kyle nick Light, who's my producer and editor, very gifted storyteller, 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:07.159 very gifted filmmaker, film film school graduate. Um, He's like, okay, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.800 I want you to write. We're writing voiceovers for The 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.280 Rivers Divide. And he said, right, I need you to write. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.320 I want you to write about this, this, this, this, 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.960 Because he's building the spine of the film. So he's like, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:18.400 I just want to see what your verbage is going 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.599 to kind of shake out as we progress through the story. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.360 Just really quick scribble so I can scribble stuff down 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.360 handed to him. And he reasons, He's like, I've literally 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.520 never heard you talk like this ever. And I basically wrote, um, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.159 you know, like TV scribble, like I wrote things that 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.720 you would hear on some of the more writing this 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.160 for TV. And he said, I've never heard you. And 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.159 then I was in the office one day and I 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:51.120 was talking about how when I killed Steve. Um. I 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.920 was like, man, Steve, yes, I'm sorry, I'm not not 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.040 my neighbor, but yeah, Steve the deer when I killed him. Um, 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:00.640 I was just telling calm. One day. I was like, man, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.479 it really I had a heavy heart, you know, I 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.320 was really filled the star And I said, you know, 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.800 it's funny because every animal I've ever killed, it's really 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.240 left me with a heavy heart. Uh. I. I just 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.240 was always aware that that animal would still be alive 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.040 that minute. Maybe not the next day, maybe a mountaine 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:19.440 would ki him where you get hit by a car, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.559 died from starvation, whatever, but that minute, that day, that second, 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.080 right then I'm I'm the executioner, right, I'm the hunter, 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.320 predator and prey, and um, there's no no backs to that. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.440 And so I just I've always realized that that is 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.200 such a big deal coming to full draw, such a 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.200 big deal clicking your safety off your rifle. And so 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.080 I told it to him. He's like, that that right that. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.320 And I was like, I can't write that. People are 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.760 gonna rip me up like the guys that jacked their 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.360 pickup trucks up. And we're baseball caps and have a 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.240 big chew in right now, those guys are gonna rip 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.600 me off. Perfect, And he's like, who cares? Who cares 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.240 about those guys. Let's make the film for us, how 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.280 you would do it, how we would do it. Let's 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.760 make it for us. Let's be selfish, make this for us. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:04.960 We'll put it out there for people like it. Great. 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.360 If they don't, you know, we'll move on with our lives. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:09.320 You'll go back to being a biologist. I'll go get 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.080 a job at another company and high five piece out. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.480 So that too fast forward to you know, when we 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.680 knew we were going to show me missing Steve at seventeen, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.320 we knew that we knew we were gonna show me 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:27.040 shooting him in the shoulder at UM thirty four. The 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.400 one thing that I wish we would have shown is 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.200 after I wounded him. We showed a little bit of 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.240 sorrow in the tree stand, and we showed a little 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.200 bit of sorrow that night. But there were days days 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.000 of that sorrow. There were multiple trips where we couldn't 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.199 even really get out of the sorrow. Like we'd go there, 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.720 we'd hunt him, he wouldn't show up. We couldn't find 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.280 him with bionos. That the places a very visual ranch. 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.920 We couldn't find him with bios. We couldn't find him. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.800 We had not It was just I wish we would 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.400 have filmed all that, but we were so in the 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.920 dumps about it. Not true tragedy here, right, I'm not 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.040 talking about it feels I mean it's not. Yes, you're 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.800 not being hyper violic like it feels shitty. It feels 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.080 really bad. And we were feeling so we're having such 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.440 a pity party where you know, it was spilt milk 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.760 everywhere that we just kind of never even turned the 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.880 camera on. So I didn't have anything to good say, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:19.640 maybe nothing to say at all, But I really wish 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.920 we would have harnessed all that fast forward that too, 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.839 the other side and the engagement that happens at the 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.959 end of the Grizzly Bear. You haven't seen the film yet, correct. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.160 I watched the first ten minutes before you all right, UM, don't, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.360 I won't. I won't. But there's there's a piece at 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.720 the end that is very volatile and um, it's very 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.760 difficult to watch whether you're a hunter and non hunter 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.079 and anti hunter, a barre biologists. It's very difficult to watch. 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:50.880 And there's additional footage to that piece. And we played 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.720 with a bunch of different pieces. There's nothing that's secret. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.600 Everything bad that happens you see, but it's just we 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:06.920 just move things around. It's still truth one percent of timeline, um, 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.640 but we just moved things around that we thought would 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.200 We didn't want to linger there for too long, and 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.200 so we shortened some of it up, and we and 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.320 we played with it to where what we did is 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.280 we had some young ladies come in our office that 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:25.439 were I'm not gonna say they're anti hunters, but they're 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.160 definitely not hunters, and they're definitely not proponents of hunting, 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.400 but they're they're good friends. Came and watched it and 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.840 we watched their body language, watched there and they were 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.000 you know, we played it the first time and and uh, 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.000 it was really cool because we had a long form. 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.720 We played it for him. They're like, um, we totally 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.640 get what's happening here, but um, this was extremely uncomfortable 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.880 to watch. So then I had a couple of friends 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.240 watch it. Girls. I don't know why we lingered there, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.440 but um, I had a very dear friend of mine 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.440 who's a woman. She watched it, and she's a her 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.240 and she watched it, and I watched her get angry. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:06.520 And so she watched it and she just crossed her arms. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.600 She's like, oh, yeah, okay, this is yep, you're gonna 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.280 put this out there. That's how you're gonna put it 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:12.760 out there. And I was like, well this, yeah, this 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.360 is what we're thinking. And then you could tell her 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:21.240 response was visceral. She was upset at this. What how 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.319 this all went down? And um, and I explained her, 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.000 you know, and and she had never hunted bears or whatever. 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.400 So we played with some placement there. Everything is I 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.880 shouldn't even say we placed. We played with placement. The 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.320 placement is the same. We played with lengths of time 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.200 that we showed that. It's interesting that you did that, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.120 you know. I don't know how many folks in the 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:43.440 hunting you know, in our content world, would would have 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.679 someone who doesn't hunt or or doesn't understand it, watch 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.079 a film like and then read their body language and 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.360 try to understand, like how that the psychology absorb, you know, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.559 and absorb what they're watching, because man, we got a 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.920 lot of bubble mentality in our world, you know, where 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.520 we don't. So I think it's really cool way you 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.720 did that, and that was it's important. And I didn't 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.840 know this, but when we started coming out with these films, 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.439 when we started writing for Instagram and writing for Facebook 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.880 and whatever else, I started getting more letters from anti 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:19.080 hunters than I was from hunters, and not not f you, letters, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.439 letters with questions like I don't like hunting, I hate hunters, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.240 but what are what is? What do you? What is this? 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.040 You know, like I really appreciate how you killed this 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.960 caribou and you caught it up and backpacked it out, 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.880 and and so they had questions. So then I started thinking, 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.600 I still wrote the film selfishly for me, still did, 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.720 but I did so in a manner that might help 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:46.120 answer some questions or elicit better questions, And so I did. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.480 I told this to rogan Um I know he's a 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.480 friend of yours, but he he made a statement one time. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.040 I think he did in a joke, but I took 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.520 it very serious. He said, we are shaped by outside, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.280 by our our influencers. So if I you know, if 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.520 I come into your hotel room and put my fist 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.320 through your mirror, you know, we might still do the 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:11.120 podcast where you're gonna be like, okay, super never ever 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.520 ever going to have that guy here again. And so 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.040 then you know, we do things that that you know, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.360 how you behave at a party might might reflect if 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.560 you get invited to a party later on, or how 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.440 you behave yourself fishing, or always say it's like a 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.640 choose your own adventure type of use your own adventure. 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.920 Every decision has a tree, and every tree, every secondary 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.000 decision has another tree. That's how you get yeah, And 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.800 so that's basically what it was is. Even though I 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.400 wrote this thing selfishly for myself, the fact that I 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.280 started getting a lot of letters from non hunters and 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.880 anti hunters made me think like, okay, I have to 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.120 write this so again. The same woman that watched the 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.320 same woman, the friend of mine, her names Crystal. She 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:56.240 watched this um the the snare at the end that 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.439 was uncomfortable. She also, this was really good because she's 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.199 a hunter, but she watched these different scenarios and she 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.840 didn't realize some of the differences techniques of like hunting 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.679 brown bears or hunting grizzly bears, and well, why are 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.160 you doing this and this and this and this and 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.160 so then I thought, oh, okay, so here's a hunter 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.760 that understands she's a deer hunter. She understands deer hunting, 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.320 but not having ever gone to Alaska hunted these different 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.960 species of bears, you didn't know. So then I so 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.680 then I realized, okay, we have to be a little 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.120 bit more blatant in some of our voiceovers and some 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.160 of our guidance to carry people along that may have 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.120 questions or may have never done these things. So it's 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.480 really good. It's it's an interesting thing. It's almost like, 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.240 you know, it's writing a book. If you're presenting a 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.760 book to two different people, then one person has already 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.680 read it, has already read the first six chapters, and 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.080 the other person has to still read the first six chapters. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.560 You know, hunters, you're like, I don't if I'm watching 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.920 you hunt Steve in a tree stand. I'm not wondering 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.600 why is he in the tree? Yeah? What's he doing 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.880 in the tree? Why is this bo hanging there like that? 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.200 Why is he looking that way? Why is he set 0:14:58.240 --> 0:14:59.880 up where he is? Yeah, I know what you're doing. 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.200 It's inherent, just based on the being a hunter and 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:06.000 have shared experiences like yeah, I know what Donny's doing there, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.640 but so I'm looking at something different. And if you've 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.960 never something and appreciate something different, if you've never done it, 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.480 then you're you're you're reading all those things like Okay, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.440 what is this? What is this? What is this? And 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.960 it seems just it's a more And I've done this 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.760 too and talked a lot of nine hunters about a 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.040 lot of different things, and it comes up in podcasts, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.080 but you know, it's hard for us who are hunters 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:31.560 to see how somebody absorbs that information, who has a 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.480 million questions before we even get to the drawing your bow? 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.360 And the cool thing is that you being a hunter. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.040 You know when I missed Steve, Like at first, you'd say, 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.440 why would you show you missed a giant deer at 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.680 seventeen yards? Why would you show that? Well, because maybe 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.120 you've missed a giant deer at seventeen yards. So then 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.760 when you see that, you're with your body and you're like, oh, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.240 do you remember when we're in Texas and my my 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.640 arrow hit that branch and deflected over that deer and 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.600 you you know that emotion. It's why books are successful, 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.600 It's why movies are successful. It's why Joe Rogan is 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.120 successful at as a comedian because what he's talking about 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.720 on stage, we're all like, yeah, I've done that. It's 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.160 I loved listening to comedians talk about that stuff because 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.360 especially talking to Joe and how they like craft, you know, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.920 the craft, their sets and craft build like because nothing 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.520 they say until gymnastics, nothing they say is funny. It's 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.960 just that we sit there and go, I have done that. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.960 I've been I've been with specifically Joe. He's the only 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.400 comedian I fucking know, so it's like I've been with him. 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.360 We were to hunt in Texas one time and he 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.520 wrote a bit about you ever been to a Bucky's 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.040 gas station. It's like this giant gas station in Texas 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.960 with like a thousand pumps and it's the you know, 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.520 it's like a Walmart with a gas station and we 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.360 went there like two in the morning, and I just 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.800 remember Joe was like bouncing around, He's writing stuff on 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:54.360 a piece of paper. What the fun is he doing? 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.920 And then he went We went and hunted, and on 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.240 the way back he did his show in Austin and 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.240 he had a bit about BUCkies in the show. It 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:04.840 was the first time I had been a part of 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.479 I'm like, holy sh it, Like he I watched and 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.560 he developed it over like a day, a three day 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.280 hunt that we did for BIGS, and I was like, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.720 it's unbelievable how he took what is normal, what was 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.359 a normal stop to get some like beef jerky, and 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.720 turned it into this like hilarious experience for the people 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.200 of Texas, because there's nothing funny about BUCkies other than 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.760 the irony of the size and the complexity of this 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.359 gas whole thing where there was like some Texas oil 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.520 tycoon doing cocaine and be like, we need more gas pumps, man, 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.640 more gas pumps. And I was like, god, it just 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.680 you know, that was the first time I was like 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.760 truly had been a part of that process and seeing 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.080 somebody turn normal life into comedy, and uh, I was 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.880 just I was amazed by it. And that's what we attempting, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.919 our attempting to do. And I'm not gonna say we're 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.800 good at our craft, but I worked with an exceedingly 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.760 talented group of guys and we we do put our 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.680 best foot forward like this is right now. We get 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:04.520 better all the time, but this is all we've got 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.240 and um, and it's cool from everything from the writing 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.560 that I do to the editing that Kyle does, because 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.280 he'll bring in you know, he's taught me things where 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.679 you know, we'll be editing something, he'll be editing something 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.119 and all of a sudden, our minds do everything left 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.320 to right and then all of a sudden will come 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.480 into a scene that is going to feed you some contention. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.240 And you'll see this in horror movies. All of a sudden, 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.760 all the scenes will start moving from right to left, 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.960 and instantly your brain doesn't like it. So instantly you 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.880 know you'll be in the movie theater and you don't 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.280 even realize that, but you'll sit up and be like, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.880 you know, what the hell is going on? And then 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.680 the music changes, you know, and you're like, okay, great, 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.600 now something something's gonna happen, and you know, like you're 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.280 hyper aware. And so we'll do the same thing in 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.479 our films. And then we have a musician, Casey Olsen. 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:58.639 He goes by Rodriguez. He'll like, yeah, Rodriguez, I gotta 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.920 get I gotta get like a name call names. Yeah, 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.080 he don't have a name. I don't, but I wish 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:04.760 he would. I wish he was a fighter pile because 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:09.240 I know, yeah, so he um, but he'll score the music. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.000 He knows nothing about hunting. He don't, you know, other 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.560 than he eats, like I give him tons of meat 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.040 and he just loves it because he doesn't spend money 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.840 on anything. And so you know, he's messy hair and 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.960 covering tattoos and he's skinny and super super talented musician. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.720 But he'll come in my office and say, hey, I 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.840 gotta get him for the podcast. So writes music. Oh yeah, 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.000 he'll score music for you. He's super dominant. But he 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.480 he'll come in my office and say, hey, when you 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.640 saw that grizzly bear, you know, were you afraid? I'll say, no, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.359 you weren't, No, well, you know what were you feeling? 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.479 I was just hyperwary, you know, like everything fell quiet, 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.399 and his oh okay, and then he'll run back to 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.879 his office into our little we have a recording studio 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.320 which is basically h ice fishing house with sound equipment 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.840 in it, and he'll go play his violin, as cello, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.600 his bass, piano, whatever, and he'll create music but his 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.960 sat So he's following the emotion. Kyle's editing to kind 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.639 of drive your guy's emotion to how we felt in 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.720 the space to bring you along. William is filming the 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.200 little tiny birds and the leaves and the frost and 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.560 the sunshine, and the clouds in the rain, the mosquitoes, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.199 so that because if you're a hunter, you've been in 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.520 all those places. Even if you're not a hunter, you 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.040 can appreciate those things. Even and even if you live 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:26.880 in New York City you never leave New York City, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.399 you see this stuff and you're like, wow, I never 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:30.879 thought I was going to see the artic circle. This 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.840 is pretty cool to kind of experience. This guy took 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.720 us there. So williams bringing you there. I'm writing to 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.440 tell you what's going on and how I was feeling 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.000 in it. And then the animals in the wilderness and 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.879 wildlife are all doing their part naturally, and we blend 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.800 it all together to try and tell a tale, right, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.000 talk about a craft man, talk about as like I'm 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.239 always interested in those things like craft. How you know 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.520 me too? It's it's and you guys have developed over 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.480 the years. I mean, oh, I want to get into 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.480 the kind of like how you how you came along 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:05.520 in hunting and eventually here. But it's this this selfish 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.439 because interesting to me just because you're talking about, you know, 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.520 not the manipulation of a story, the telling of a story, 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.200 telling of a story. You know, how do I craft? Um? 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:17.880 What happened to me in such a way to make 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.639 compelling to interest folks and and for them to be 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.800 able to take something away from it? Um. And when 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:25.520 you and when you're looking at you, you have a 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.639 wide people, a wide array of folks that watch your films, 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.639 and they'll all take something different from it, which is 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.240 which I'm sure is the challenge, you know. Yeah, and 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.600 it's it's been really rewarding. We just did um premiere 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:41.120 in Fort Collins, Colorado, a very artsy theater and there's 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.760 a very diverse group and there, I mean mostly mostly 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.960 people that were got invitations from most partners of ours 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.280 and things like that, and um, so that was a 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.159 really good group of people. But there's several people in 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.560 the theater that I have never hunted, do not really 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.280 know hunters. Because that's the funny thing if if you 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.439 think about it, not to digress, but you know, the 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.280 people that we came from our parents. Like if you 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.920 asked your dad and your mom, Hey, did you guys 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.120 grow up annoying hunters? Oh yeah, yeah, of course. But 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.679 you get to our generation and you ask some of 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.800 your friends, say, yeah, you guys know any hunters. No. 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.840 Our parents all new hunters because it was a mainstay 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.679 of society. And now, unfortunately, as some generations are moving along, 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.600 you don't really know hunters. And we hunters used to be, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.239 you know, statesman if you will. They used to be 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:32.000 like upper classman guys that knew everything from um it 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.080 was kind of the guy that knew how to navigate 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.480 in the dark. He knew how to live off the land. 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.600 He knew how to break down an animal and get 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.280 it back to his wife and kids, and he knew 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:43.600 how to forge and have space. And he also was 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.120 strong and tough and um, honest and true. And these 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:49.920 are these are things that kind of followed that. Yeah, 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:51.960 they have a lot of important jobs, right, a lot 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.640 of a lot of important jobs, which makes them exalted 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.440 in the community. And yeah, yeh. Had a guy on 0:22:56.480 --> 0:23:00.359 the podcast that us told us um he game from 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.840 Czechoslovakia and he was telling there they have a term 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:04.560 over there, and I always fuck it up. I think 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.000 it's like mechlovic or something like that. Mesovic Um it 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:12.080 means hunter and thinker and that's you know over there 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.399 coming up they had to um learn about that. They 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:16.840 had to go to class to be a hunter and 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.399 learn about the flora and fauna and there, you know, 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.639 their model of conservation, if you will, was to the 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.119 more work you did outside, the better opportunities you had 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:28.119 to go hunt. So if you worked all day, you 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:30.359 could go hunt red deer. If you only hurt half 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.560 the day, you could only go and then hunt a 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.560 squirrel or a rabbit. So it's interesting like that, like 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.000 the idea in that community that the hunter was this 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.480 you know, yeah, thinker and someone who had to make 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.520 like the most important decisions when it came to wildlife. 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:46.760 And it was funny. So I was in several years ago, 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:52.399 but I was in Nepal. I was in southern Nepal 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.960 and the Royal Chitwan National Forest, a place called death 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:59.200 Up and I was studying tigers for UM, the local biologists. 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:03.920 They're working in conjunction with them, and they are very 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.879 much against hunting. Uh in this region, the guys that 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.840 I were working with and uh, um the native people 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.159 very much against hunting. UH. They do some hunting, of 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.000 course for themselves, and some fishing to supply meat for 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:18.879 their families, but I'm mostly uh talking about the tiger 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.479 right there. Everyone's there to save the tiger, other than 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:25.000 the poachers that are trying to sell their skin. But UM, 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:27.800 so they quote unquote hate these guys that are killing 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.040 the tigers. They're not hunters or poachers, but they hate them. 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.040 But it's funny. When I came into camp, they asked 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:34.880 what I like to do, and I told you, let's 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:38.080 back up about how you find yourself. Let's not skip 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:41.240 over how the fund do you find yourself working as 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:46.560 a as a It's actually pretty interesting. So I I 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.960 graduated from the University of Minnesota with a degree and 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:53.160 wildlife biology and scientific biology. And UM, you hunter, then 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:55.800 I was a hunter, then you're in fact, That's what 0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:59.160 led me to I was hunting and and and had 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:00.800 no idea what I want do for a career. I 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:05.840 was really unsuccessful in high school. UM basically remedial classes 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:08.240 all the way up through high school, just challenged as 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:12.400 I'm not gonna necessarily say challenged as a as a student. 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:14.920 But teachers didn't believe in me. I certainly didn't believe 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:17.879 in me, and parents didn't believe in me, and so 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:22.600 I just was Monday became a Friday, became a Sunday, 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.159 turned into a month, into a year, and uh, you know, 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.679 ninth grade of serious, tenth grade it was we were 0:25:28.720 --> 0:25:31.080 supposed to be more serious. Eleventh grade was supposed to 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.199 be really serious and get ready for life. And all 0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:36.720 of a sudden, like, I'm just a high school student. 0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:38.040 What am I supposed to do? And I saw the 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:41.320 other kids around me that were really smart and talented. 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:45.800 We're taking post secondaries classes, and they weren't getting in trouble, 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:47.399 and not naturally that I was getting in trouble for 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.119 trivial stuff, but I was getting in a little bit 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:53.000 of trouble. And anyway, flast forward and I went to 0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:57.760 the University of Minnesota, and UM, I ended up seeing 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:01.600 a cow moose on a brochure. Uh kalmo standing in 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:06.760 a pond eating vegetation on a roster. Yeah. Um for 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:11.000 the UH School of Natural Resources. And I thought, and 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:16.520 I loved wildlife, loved I loved wildlife and I loved hunting. 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:20.400 To me, those two things were synonymous. There wasn't zoos 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:24.320 the outdoors. I'm also a hunter and a fisherman like 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.439 guys now are like, I'm a bass fisherman or I 0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:28.320 hunt white til deer. I did this to me that 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.520 none of that exists. Still to this day, none of 0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:33.440 that exists. To me, I'm all of those things, and 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:37.360 I'm a zookeeper and I'm a wildlife biologist and I'm 0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:40.040 a steward of habitat like that. To me, being a hunter, 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:43.000 your job is all of that. You own all of that. 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:47.399 That's a responsibility. And so um, I was hunting and 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:49.160 wanting to hunt more and more, and so I saw 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.280 this brochure and I was like, oh, you know, I'd 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.080 love to do this, And and the school was ranked 0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:56.720 really high, the program at that you was ranked really high. 0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:01.280 So when applied and literally the ladies like oh no, absolutely, 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:05.280 like you are so far from getting in this program, 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:10.760 it's not even funny. So I said, no, she was awesome. 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.160 Actually she was awesome. Yeah, but she said basically like, 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:16.240 you are so far on the plate, it's not even funny. 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:17.720 But why why do you even want to do this? 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:19.359 You know? And I said, well, I and this is 0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:22.200 I'm not telling you this story to as a as 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:24.879 a proponent of like yep, somebody told me I couldn't 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:26.640 do it, and I just buckled up and did it. No, 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:30.680 it was just I was so afraid of failure, so 0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:34.320 afraid of I watched tons of people around me flounder 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.360 with drugs and alcohol and and as young kids. I mean, 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:39.240 I'm talking middle school on up. You know. That was 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.080 like ment alive. I'm not very smart anyway, I'm not 0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:45.359 very bright to begin with. I'm in remedial classes all 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.760 through high school. I bet her, damn buckle down and 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:50.880 try to learn as much information as I can before 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:53.760 I move forward and try to do something with my life. 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:55.959 And I have a brother and a sister both are 0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.640 severe drug addicts and uh, and so I watched them 0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:01.920 just a constant. I were a lot of control and 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.880 in and out of jail and stealing from my parents 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:06.800 and they get kicked out and then they move back in. 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:13.240 It's just this ship show. And so UM, this lady said, 0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:14.360 why do you want to do this? And I said, 0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:16.040 I just love wildlife. I'd love to do this. She said, 0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.680 I tell you what. You take all of these classes. 0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:22.159 And it was all of the Algebras. It was pre 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:26.199 calcuant in two. It was a freshman English. It was 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:28.240 a second language because I never had a second language 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.200 in high school. Um. Basically, it was two years of classes. 0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:37.879 And she's like, you do all of these with absolute regularity, 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:40.480 and you'd get good grades and I'll let you into 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.240 the program. So it's great, went to school for two years. 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.480 She let me into the program, went through the program. 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:46.760 It sounds like you just needed to care it. It It 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:49.280 sounds like you just need something. Yeah, I just needed 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:51.680 to care and some support, I guess maybe, and and 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.480 maybe an ounce of believing in myself. And then um, 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:57.880 and then at the end of that program, you have 0:28:58.000 --> 0:29:00.640 a fields course in which we would go to this 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:03.560 place called Douglas Lake in Lake Michigan. It sat on 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:07.360 Lake Michigan, um in the northern part of the Lower 0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:11.120 Peninsula of Michigan. And and we go through this course 0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:14.600 and learning, you know, how to really classify plants in 0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:17.600 the forest, right, not textbook stuff, but like we're doing 0:29:17.640 --> 0:29:20.160 actual vegetation work here. We're looking at trees, reading a 0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:22.600 lot of stuff. And one of the one of the 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:26.760 courses was run by this guy named Dr David Smith. 0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:31.120 He's a world famous tiger ecologist. So he in the 0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:35.600 beginning of the summer, the University of Michigan would radio 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:39.440 caller raccoons and then they let them go and so 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:43.680 we'd study their movements with radio telemetry all summer long. 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:45.640 And then at the end of the summer what are 0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:48.000 you looking for there? Oh, just literally learning how to 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:51.000 use telemetry equipment. So like, oh, he's in a dumpster tonight. 0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:55.320 And then here's what we frowned. No, raccoons are a 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:59.880 little asshole. Literally, we'd locate and be like, oh, he 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.200 he's in cabin for tonight, and or he's up on 0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:04.640 this hill, you know, and why is he up on 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:06.000 this hill? And then we go up there and be like, oh, 0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:07.720 so somebody dumped a sack of apples up here and 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:11.160 he's been sent up here eating so all these different things, um, 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.160 and then at the end of the summer, the University 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:17.120 of Minnesota would basically try and capture those raccoons to 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:18.920 get their radio collars off of them. So there's this 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.880 friendly little bet between your University of Minnesota University of Michigan. 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.280 So the guy that I was working for, David Smith, 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:28.760 the professor that I was studying underneath, he had me 0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:30.640 and another guy. He's like, why don't you guys take 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:35.480 first crack. You go out tonight, triangulate the raccoons, set 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:39.000 up traps, live traps, and see how many you can capture. 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.960 Three of them now a radio color and the most 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:44.480 anyone had ever caught up to that point, I believe 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:48.000 was one and um, and long story short, we ended 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.360 up catching all three in the first night. So then 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:54.280 we started talking and we were at this basically a 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:57.760 celebration party at the end, and he just said, uh, 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.720 He's like, hey, I'm going over to Bangladesh and Nepal 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:04.040 to go do some tiger stuff this summer. Um, would 0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:06.200 you like to come along? And I said, man alive, 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:10.600 I would love. I was early twenties. Nobody says no 0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:12.800 to that. No, And then it was really cool. This 0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:16.400 is this guy's David Smith again. His basically Indiana Jones 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.120 literally basically Indiana. He did wear a hat, yep, and 0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:23.240 he had white hair, and he he'd have glasses. He 0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:25.520 let his glasses slide down to the end of his nose, 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.960 almost like Santa Claus, and he kind of suck on 0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:31.720 his bottom lip and go yeah, Ben, yeah, yeah yeah. 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:34.080 And so he do these things. Oh, it's awesome, and 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.560 then he um. One time he got gored. This is 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:38.360 I was not there, but he got gored by an 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:40.120 Asian ryin on one time with his son. Him and 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:42.880 his son, Guy scooped up all of his intestines because 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:45.160 they're everywhere. His intestines are all over the place in 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:50.120 the jungle, scoops them all up, carries them and his 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:55.040 son back to the camp and wanders in, peels out. 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:58.120 They fly him, They put him in an airplane. They 0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.600 fly him emergently to Catman. You and the doctors and 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:05.120 Kamin who were like, we're not touching this guy, like 0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.520 he's seen Yeah, I've seen the hospitals in Kevin. They're 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:09.520 not you know, you're not there to you're not there 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:12.280 to get a cavity fixed. And so they flew him 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.080 to Bangkok and the guys at Bangkok, just crushed and 0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:16.960 put him all back together. But his stomach he looks 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:18.480 like you know when you have your apendix out, he 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.880 looks like he's had nineteen appendixes out. So that's the 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:23.720 type of guy that this guy ever written Any books 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:28.000 we gotta do, I'm sure this guy. I'm sure a film, yeah, 0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:30.840 where we recreate that. He's he's a sick dude. Man. 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.000 He's just he's one of those guys. When he are 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.800 around him or you know him, you're like, oh, I'm 0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:38.520 I'm and I feel this way today, I'm I'm in Amiba. 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:41.680 Compared to this man, he's ten times smarter than I am. 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.120 He's in his sixties, And when I was in my 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:46.160 twenties and he was in his sixties, he was ten 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:48.840 times tougher than I was, ten times smarter than I was. 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:51.480 It's just you're around somebody like that and you're like, 0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:54.800 you're you really you realize what human beings can be. Yeah, 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.360 you're laughing, You're basically he's basically superhero. Sure, Sure, it 0:32:58.400 --> 0:32:59.960 was good for you and your twenties to be around that. 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:03.480 It's always incredible to give you and so it's remarkable 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:05.680 to see what he would do. But he gaining this 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.720 piece of paper and he had his glasses down on 0:33:07.760 --> 0:33:09.640 the end of his nose and he took his pen out, 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:12.720 and he's like, uh, you know where you know where 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:17.200 Bangkok is? You know, I'm like Thailand. It's like, yeah, yeah, 0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:19.080 So you're gonna fly. What I want you to do 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:20.920 is I want you to fly from Minneapolis. You fly 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:23.160 at the Minneapolis right. Yeah, you fly to the Minneapolis 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:26.080 and you're gonna fly down to Atlanta, Georgia. From Georgia, 0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:29.120 then I'm gonna have you fly to Bangkok. I'm gonna 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:31.440 have you overnight in Bangkok and uh and then from 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:33.200 there in the morning, you're gonna go back to the airport. 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:37.520 You're gonna fly through Tokyo and then um, I'm gonna 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:39.720 have you land in uh let's see here. I'll probably 0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:43.320 have you land in uh in Dhaka. Yeah, how many 0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:46.560 landing Dhaka, Bangladesh. And then and then you're gonna go 0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:48.240 out there's a big metal gate. You're gonna go out 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:49.800 this gate and then you're gonna walk over to the 0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.960 domestic airport and you're gonna a charter an airplane, probably 0:33:53.000 --> 0:33:55.120 a twin prop or something and you're gonna fly that 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.040 down to just shore. And then when you get down 0:33:57.080 --> 0:34:01.320 to the shore, don't talk to anyone because just there's 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:03.520 some people down there. Just don't talk to anyone. And 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:05.600 and when you get off the airplane, you're just gonna 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:07.600 walk into town. It's talk going to be dirt and jungle, 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.200 and don't don't talk to anyone. And then you just 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.400 sit there on the street corner and I'll find you 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.080 in a couple of days, in a couple of days, 0:34:16.120 --> 0:34:17.759 a couple of days, a couple of days from because 0:34:17.800 --> 0:34:20.279 it took me like three days to fly there. So 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:23.319 you see this piece of paper and that's that's all 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:28.439 it says on So I fly to Bangkok and through 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.080 Tokyo to DCA and and then I go to walk 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:32.719 through the metal gate that he told me to walk through, 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.080 and there's a guy with a machine gun and he's 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.680 like hey, hey, hey, and he's pointing his gun at me. 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:42.480 And the guy going through customs in in DACA, guys 0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:45.280 point at a K at my chest safeties off pointy. 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:46.520 I don't know if he had one in the chamber, 0:34:46.520 --> 0:34:48.799 but he's pointing the a K on my chest and 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:52.719 he's like passport. I handed my passport. He drifts the 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:54.719 mull's love his gun off me a little bit. It 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:58.000 looks at my passport and go no no. He slides 0:34:58.040 --> 0:34:59.880 it back and he goes back to his weapon. I 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:01.759 what do you mean? Knowing he's like, no, this is 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:04.120 not not a good passport. Where'd you get this? Like 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.560 Washington d C. He was no, no, no, no, no no. 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.080 And so he's kind of bickering with me. And I 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:12.439 saw there's another military guy over here that's a little 0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:15.120 bit more decorated. And I called him over and said, man, 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:18.839 I'm here from the university and studying tigers and and um, 0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:21.239 I gotta get in here. And and he's like, where 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:23.000 are you staying? And I said, I'm staying in the jungle. Man, 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:25.200 I don't have an address. And he's like, you need 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:27.360 an address. And I'm like, I'm staying in the sunder Bonds. 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:29.759 It's the world's largest main grove swamp, living on a 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:32.640 boat in the jungle. There's no address, Like, man, you 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:34.360 need an address. And I was like, okay, So I 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.839 go to the next guy, and here's where you're staying. 0:35:36.840 --> 0:35:40.560 I go Hotel sunder Bond and the other guy looks 0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:43.719 at me like, you didn't just tell me that, And 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:45.839 he's like, okay, you're staying at the hotel sunder Barn, 0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:52.600 which doesn't exist, and so he writes and so he 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:54.680 So they finally let me in and I go to 0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:56.960 walk through the gate to go to the domestic airport, 0:35:57.520 --> 0:35:59.160 and the dude in the machine guns like, hey, if 0:35:59.200 --> 0:36:00.800 you go through the gate to shoot you, that's a 0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.439 no no walk zone, Like if you go through this gate, 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.919 I have to shoot you, you know. And I'm like, oh, yeah, 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:09.200 well okay, so I'm not I won't go through the gate, 0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:10.920 And so where do I How do I do this? 0:36:10.960 --> 0:36:12.480 He's like, you need to take a cab. The only 0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:13.759 way you can get over there is if you get 0:36:13.760 --> 0:36:15.040 in a cab and go over there. So I go 0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:18.799 over this cabby parked nearby and I said, can you 0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:21.279 give me a ride to the domestic airport? And he's 0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:24.560 he just goes no, he just sucked on his lip, 0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:27.680 kind of sucked on his tooth, and no, I go, please, 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:30.440 can you know? So all the sime, I see this 0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:34.279 police officer and he's kind of noticing this guy's given 0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:37.280 me a little gouff. So he comes over and he says, 0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:39.640 excuse me, what's you know? Who are you? I need 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.239 to see your papers. I showed my papers. He's like, 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.200 what are you doing. I said, I'm American. I'm here 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:48.120 study tigers. They hold their tigers very, very high, you know, 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.279 A they're all afraid of them because there's a lot 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:52.439 of man eaters there. So the fact that you're coming 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:55.279 to find tigers, they oh, okay, so you're going to 0:36:55.280 --> 0:36:57.360 the jungle, like you're going to go look for tigers, 0:36:57.520 --> 0:37:00.280 and you're here to help us with our tiger are 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:04.000 poaching problem. So he looks at my passport, looks my 0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.120 papers like okay, he's like, what's going on? I like, 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:09.040 he just won't take me to the domestic airport. He 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:13.200 walks over there, smashes the guy in the head, smashes 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:16.600 him with a right I mean smashes him. Then the 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:19.040 guy his head kind of pops back out the window. 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.840 The cops smashes him with an elbow. The guy is 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:27.440 now bleeding profusely from his left temple, and then he goes, okay, 0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:31.080 he'll take you now, no charge. And I get in 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:33.040 and the guy's bleeding from his head and he drives 0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:36.520 me over the domestic airport for free. Yeah, so he 0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:39.160 lets me out. And then so I get in the 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:41.680 airplane and fly down to just Shore. I get off 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:44.160 the airplane, grab my bag, go down this gravel strip 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.759 sitting on the street corner. It's midnight, one am, and 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.680 this guy comes over in a rickshaw when those little 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:53.320 three wheel bicycles got a little ring ring. He comes in. 0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:55.799 He goes, hey, where are you staying? And I said, 0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:57.279 I don't know where I'm staying yet, you know, I'm 0:37:57.640 --> 0:37:59.359 waiting for friends. And he says, no, no, no no, we're 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:01.839 um where he's staying. I'll take you there. And I said, 0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:03.320 you know, I don't know where we're staying. You know, 0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:04.759 we're gonna be living on a boat. And he goes, well, 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.319 there's a hotel right down the street here. Why don't 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:09.239 you let me take you there. You can relax there. 0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:11.359 They have bottled water, because you don't drink anything out 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:13.600 of the tap. There they have bottled water, the fresh 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:17.480 food you can get, bite the you know, relax and 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:19.480 and then i'll let your friends. You know, you know 0:38:19.480 --> 0:38:21.040 where you went. And so I said no, no, I 0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:23.480 was told to state here and not talk to anyone, remember, 0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:27.439 So that guy keeps coming by, and then finally, at 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:29.440 like three thirty in the morning, I see a land 0:38:29.520 --> 0:38:31.759 rover coming on the street and open end, open air 0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:37.600 land rover and there's Dave and I'm like, this worked. 0:38:37.800 --> 0:38:41.399 This whole half a page of scribble notes worked. So 0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:43.600 he rides up. He's like, hey, how's your flight and everything. 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.440 I'm like, everything basically how you described it, other than 0:38:46.440 --> 0:38:48.920 you almost got me killed going to the airport. And 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:50.360 he's like, what do you mean you can't walk to 0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:52.080 the game. And he's like, oh yeah, yeah, that's right. 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:56.879 You gotta take a car over there. Thank you, thank 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.319 you for that. So then I get in the car 0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:00.719 and I go, yeah, I most was gonna wait for 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:03.920 you guys at a hotel. And the driver goes, what 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:05.920 a hotel? And I said, the guy there on the 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:09.000 rickshaw and you could see him. I'm like, he said, 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:10.600 he's gonna take me the hotel. He's like, oh no, 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.839 It's like he was probably gonna murder you. It's like 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:15.800 what they'll do is they'll get you in their rickshaw 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:17.960 and then they'll just ride you over somewhere. They ring 0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:20.399 their bell, you know, guys jump out and slit your throat, 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:23.440 take all your goods and off the races. And so 0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:27.200 he's like, yeah, there's no hotel around here. So yeah, 0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:29.200 So then I jumped in a boat and went into 0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:31.960 the jungle. So that's how I got to there. But 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:35.080 back to my original points, they are against hunting and 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:37.880 hunters there, but they hold hunters in very high regard 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:46.839 because all before um, late nineties, late nineties, and so 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:51.920 before they became kind of a recognized society the civil War, 0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:56.120 to all of their elders, if you will, were all hunters, 0:39:56.160 --> 0:40:00.360 and so they hunters were revered there. But um, no 0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:02.080 longer do they do any hunting there. No, But it 0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:03.919 was quite an experience, it was, and I never saw 0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:07.040 a tiger the whole time. How long? How long are 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:09.360 you there? Um? I was feeling people are like finished 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:11.600 the story, Donny, Oh yeah, I know. I was there. 0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:14.000 I was there. I was in Bangladesh for several weeks, 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:17.040 and then from there I went to Nepal for several weeks, 0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:20.480 and um, it was so close to seeing a tiger, 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:23.160 Like I was in this room with tigers, but I 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.399 just couldn't see them because the jungle tracks and yeah, 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:28.040 i'd see tracks. So every time the tigers stepped. It's 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:30.839 called a pug mark. Every time the tiger would step, 0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:33.560 the track would fill with water. And so you could 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.360 take your hand or your foot, put it in a 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:39.320 mud and pull push it to the same death of 0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.239 the tiger, pull it up and measure how long it takes. 0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:44.640 And so we had tiger prints for that were just 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:48.240 dimpling with water, which is you know, four or five seconds, 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:50.560 and so he was right here she or she was 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:53.040 right here, but you can't see them because the jungle. 0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:58.960 These are what kind of tigers? Tigers? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:01.920 nowadays in Nepal, hunting has become They have one hunting 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:06.240 district which I hunted in Um with Cool Kramer mutual 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:09.360 friend Um. And this is you know, I want to 0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:12.000 say it's only been open for about four years, Okay, 0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:14.040 I always get that wrong, four or five years. It's 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:17.120 called the Rokum District. And they they'll do uh each year, 0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:19.440 they do uh what we would call a tag draw, 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:21.719 but they do like a tag auction and the outfitters, 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:24.600 I think there's uh two or three outfitters that they 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:26.440 lie up. Yeah, they just buy them up in an 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:29.040 auction and there'll be a certain amount of blue sheep tags, 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:32.880 a certain amount of um tar tags for things like 0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:35.759 that over there. So we've we got We were, you know, 0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:37.000 one of the first folks to do that. But we 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:42.040 went to western Nepal, which, um it was pretty damn remote. 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:45.240 We were, you know, the little the hamlet, the little 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.680 village that we flew into. It was like six days 0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:51.680 walk from the nearest road. And which I I said 0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:54.799 a lot on this podcast, but that that like those 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:59.400 dudes were, They're telling amazing stories in that part of 0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:03.000 the world. No tigers around, but all kinds of it's 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:06.439 just completely different, right, unbelieved, completely different. You have no 0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:10.719 concept um and I say that in this latest film, 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:14.600 this idea of I have this notion that I live with, 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:17.600 and one of them is that we always must hunt 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:20.080 well and good, no matter if you're on camera off camera. 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:22.920 Just how we carry ourselves. And I don't mean so 0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:26.200 we don't get caught poaching, but even we need to 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:28.640 leave the habitat better. We need to be conservationists. We 0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:31.080 need to educate those that don't know. We have to 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:34.480 educate ourselves. We have to constantly keep asking ourselves difficult questions. 0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:36.960 Should we even be hunting these animals, should we be here, 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:40.160 should be doing this that notion, and then also this 0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:44.400 this other notion of that. Um unless you go, unless 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:47.000 you live there, unless you participate, you really have no 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:49.160 opinion on what is going on. Like we love to 0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:52.879 sit back, particularly in the United States, and say, oh, 0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:55.080 I you know, this is how I would handle Nepoll 0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.960 or this is how I would handle Iraq or Afghanistan 0:42:58.080 --> 0:43:03.360 or Cuba whatever, and and from its wildlife to its habitat, 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.000 to its people too, you know. And then but really, 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:10.480 unless you're there, you know, what would people in in Manhattan, 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:13.920 New York, how much do they have to say about, um, 0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:16.680 you know, the wildlife in Montana. You know, even though 0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:19.200 they're probably watching CNN. I'm making this all up. But 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.440 even though they're probably watching CNN and seeing some you know, 0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:28.280 lands becoming privatized or becoming remaining public or becoming privatized, 0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:30.360 they might sit in New York as a you know, 0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:32.279 a big fact can be like, well, yeah, this is 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.800 my opinion on it. You know that. But really, unless 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:39.160 you're there Nepal, unless you're listening to these stories, unless 0:43:39.160 --> 0:43:41.480 you're walking the six miles to the village, unless you're 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:45.319 listening to the people there. You you really have you 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:47.560 don't even have an opinion then, but at least you 0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:50.200 have some wisdom in some That's what I say. It's 0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:52.439 so hard, Like I think my biggest challenge with going 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:55.080 over there for a brief time was like being stressed 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:58.560 out about learning enough. My stress was like, I want 0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:01.799 to learn, uh um, what has happened to here? What 0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:04.200 will happen here? I want to learn the culture. I 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:06.759 want to learn their practices for hunting, if they have any, 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.600 which they really you know, they have some traditional hunting practice, 0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:12.239 it's not they don't have any modern hunting practice other 0:44:12.280 --> 0:44:15.520 than kill animal if hungry. It's become a trophy, right. 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:18.120 They try to provide that Western experience that we all 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:21.759 I should say we all that I loathe, we participated. 0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:23.360 I say that all the time. Like one thing that 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:25.759 bothers me about it is because you'll see and I've 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:28.120 seen this happen. I'm not been around long enough to 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.319 see it kind of like bloom, but I've seen it. 0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:32.960 I could see it. Where is it where a country 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:36.360 like we there's a lot of dollars in these in 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:42.719 this country, and another country is looking to to replicate 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:45.439 that to like to kind of extract you know, who 0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:48.560 has the money, what are they spending it on? And 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:51.759 can we create an industry in our country to extract 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:54.839 that money and have have people travel and come hunt here. 0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:58.640 And so these industries pop up, and man, I'll be 0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:03.440 flat honest, places like News Zealand, um, where they're basically 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:06.759 just catering to a certain type of hunter, and that's 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.680 because that hunter has dollars. Then they created a tourism industry. 0:45:09.719 --> 0:45:13.480 It's supply and demand, it's economics. And it's funny because 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.719 this goes back to some of my original hypocrisy that 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:18.680 I was telling you about. I don't want to go 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:22.560 to New Zealand and Hanatar or Shammy and be a 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:24.719 tourist and all this stuff. Not Now, if I went 0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:28.239 to New Zealand for sixty days and I was living 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:30.880 in a little village or camping or hiking or doing 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.359 whatever it is, it's so funny because it's just semantics. 0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:37.000 But to me it's serious. If I was enveloping myself 0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.800 into the culture and then found myself in the mountains 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:42.640 and some guy was like, Hey, I'm going on a 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:45.920 tar hunt this weekend to go get a bunch of 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:47.719 tar meat for my family. Do you want to come 0:45:47.719 --> 0:45:51.360 along and help me backpack the tar meat off the mountains? Yeah? 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:53.040 And then when I'm up there, he says, hey, do 0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:54.560 you want to shoot one? You know, you don't need 0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:56.400 a license for it. You can use my rifle or whatever. 0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:59.359 Do you want to shoot one? Yeah? And then all 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:01.759 of a sudden, that whole experience, to me is me 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:05.160 living my life in New zealand participating with a local 0:46:05.280 --> 0:46:08.399 or participating with the wildlife in the habitat and going 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.840 about my days and learning the culture and really having 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:14.640 this barrier entry of belonging, which is a complete opposite 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:16.440 of a ten day hunt in the Mabia where I'm 0:46:16.440 --> 0:46:18.960 trying to say, hey, I shot eight planes games. Yeah, 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.719 it's a depth, depth of perspective, you know, like I've 0:46:21.719 --> 0:46:24.600 always you know. That's why I think storytelling is great, 0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:26.839 because you can tell a story, right, You can tell 0:46:26.840 --> 0:46:30.600 a story about your experience without without coming by, without 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:33.719 you know, coloring it as an expert, like this is 0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:37.000 just my experience. I was only there for ten days. Yeah, 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:39.319 I can't tell you. I can tell you what I experienced, 0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:42.319 and hopefully you know if you've never been to that area, 0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:44.200 of the world experienced that it gives you a little 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:46.719 bit of a window into what might be happening. But 0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:49.560 what you're talking about is just purely a depth of experience. 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.360 You know, like the more time you spend, the better 0:46:53.160 --> 0:46:56.400 UM you're able to, you know, take that experience across 0:46:56.480 --> 0:46:59.319 other folks. It adds up to so much more. It 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.520 adds up to so much more in and UM. I 0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:04.360 learned this from a pilot. One time I tried to 0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:06.520 do this. I was fly fishing in Alaska. I was 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:08.640 up there doing research for the US Fishing Wildlife Service. 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.520 I was doing a bunch of fly fishing, and I 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:14.880 had maybe six or seven days before I had to 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:18.160 fly out too before I had to go home because 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:20.359 I had another project I had to work on. And 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:22.600 I talked to this pilot friend of mine, Doug Brewer, 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:24.839 and I said, hey, dog, this was back when, um 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:27.880 there was a herd in western Alaska called the mold Chatten, 0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:30.359 a herd of caribou. So I said, Doug, he can 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:33.040 fly me there and in a day, not even a day, 0:47:33.080 --> 0:47:35.160 a couple of hours. So I said, Doug, will you 0:47:35.200 --> 0:47:38.240 fly me and drop me off? Um and by myself 0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:40.399 in the middle chatten herd or by the mold chatten herd. 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:42.360 I just want to camp. I have two and a 0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:45.879 half days to hunt and then I'll meet you fly back. 0:47:45.920 --> 0:47:48.200 And he said, no, man, he's like, I'm not going 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:50.600 to fly you in there and for two and a 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.120 half days a hunt. I said why not. He's like, 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:56.680 because the animals deserve more than that, and and he said, 0:47:56.719 --> 0:48:03.040 if you can stay for five days, it's it. That's 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.160 that's the beginning. If you can stay for seven days. 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:09.239 And the math doesn't add up here, so don't don't 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:12.120 your listeners, don't hang me on this. But if you 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.759 can stay seven days, that's ten times more than five days. 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.319 If you can stay ten days, that's ten times more 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:19.480 than seven days. If you can stay fourteen days is 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:22.319 ten times more than ten days. And he's basically saying 0:48:22.360 --> 0:48:24.919 like every two days that you give this, you're gonna 0:48:24.920 --> 0:48:27.520 have ten times the experience that you would have had. 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:30.360 And so he's like for two and a half days, no, No, 0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:32.200 I'm not flying you in there. You might with a 0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:34.040 high part rifle, or you get lucky with the ball, 0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:38.360 you might smash a big bowl um before I have 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:40.200 to com pick you out. But He's like, that's not hunting, 0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:44.400 you know. And I was still learning my own wisdoms 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:46.920 and learning my own ropes and even what it meant 0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:48.960 to be a hunter then, and so you know, to me, 0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:51.360 I was like, yeah, zip in there, shoot a giant bowl. 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:54.120 Quarterm up, carrying back to camp, get back in then plane, 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:56.879 take some photos. Great hunt, I go home. I go yeah. 0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:58.200 I killed the caribol and one of them for two 0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:01.000 and a a half days, expert, patting myself on the back, 0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:03.280 you know. And then Doug's like no, no, no, And 0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:07.480 and it was funny because fast forward several several years. 0:49:07.520 --> 0:49:11.719 I spent twenty five days in the Arctic and the 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:13.399 guy picked me up pilot pick and it was really 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:16.280 cool because they dropped this off as basically summer. Everything 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:18.759 was green, the bugs were bad, it was warm during 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:21.279 the day. Picked me up. Twenty five days later, the 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:24.160 river was frozen solid and no attack was frozen solid 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:27.040 snow on the ground. The moose had went through their 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:29.359 complete rot cycle, and we're moving on with their lives 0:49:29.400 --> 0:49:32.319 are in the breeding cycle now, and and um, you know, 0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:35.640 we went from watching black bears and grizzly bears lazily 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:39.080 loaf around the tundra, eating grass and nipping in this, 0:49:39.160 --> 0:49:44.480 and nipping in this, going into hyper hyper um feeding 0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:47.440 to get ready for hibernation, and watching them cross ground 0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:49.640 squirrels and blueberries and all this stuff trying to get ready, 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:53.239 trying to and so literally watched the evolution of this 0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:55.600 landscape over twenty five days. And when the pilot picked 0:49:55.600 --> 0:49:58.200 me up, you know, we're flying back and he's like, uh, 0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:01.080 did you see any seeny wolves. I'm like yeah, I 0:50:01.080 --> 0:50:04.040 got surrounded by two different packs twice and he's like, 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:06.040 oh cool. He's like seeing grizzly bears. I'm like yeah, 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:09.440 I mean I saw ten different grizzly bears, two giant boars. 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:12.600 One charged me. And he's like, did you see any 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:16.280 black bears. I'm like, oh, I saw twelve big, plump 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:18.799 black bears and and stocked a couple of them and 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:21.600 took photographs and you know, you see any moves. Yeah, 0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:24.080 I saw fifty moose And he's like, yeah, I seen 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.279 any bowls over sevent I'm like yeah, most of them. 0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:31.120 Like I saw moose fighting, and I saw them, you know, 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.440 breeding cows, and I saw them with giant harems, and 0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:37.239 I saw them form these harems and everything. He asked me. 0:50:37.760 --> 0:50:40.239 I was like, yeah, do you hear any wolves? How? Oh? Yeah, 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:42.920 you see the northern lights? Yeah, all this stuff, like, 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:46.800 but it took twenty five days to do all that stuff. 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:49.120 And still it's just I mean, you think about it. 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:51.759 I watched it go from summer to what you could 0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:56.600 nearly confuse his winter in twenty five days, and uh god, 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:58.880 that's all I want to do. Ever. Now it's just 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:00.680 like if I can go, why to hunting and I 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:03.640 wa for days or thirty days or yeah? Great? Well 0:51:03.640 --> 0:51:05.759 and as a traveling hunter, right, I I recently moved 0:51:05.800 --> 0:51:07.400 to Montane and a big part of that for me 0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:09.240 was I got to thinking, and this is a fucking 0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:12.360 first world problem if there ever was one. But I 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.799 got I got to thinking. I do a lot of traveling, right, 0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:18.520 travel around the world hunting and done all this and 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:20.400 the one thing I feel like I'm missing in my 0:51:20.480 --> 0:51:24.240 hunting life, and moved around for work a lot, you know, Illinois, Texas, 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:27.800 different places, Like I want to plant my flag somewhere 0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:31.680 and not not only go travel the world and like 0:51:31.760 --> 0:51:34.440 get and gather perspectives and meet from these places and 0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:38.880 experiences and bring them back But have you know, have 0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.319 a place where I live that I have such an 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:44.839 intense relationship with that could be informed and informed by 0:51:44.880 --> 0:51:47.760 these other places I go on hunt because I felt 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:50.880 like I had all these great traveling hunting experience, But 0:51:50.960 --> 0:51:53.840 when I went back in this just in this context 0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:56.759 of Texas, it could have been anywhere. I'm looking around like, man, 0:51:56.760 --> 0:52:00.200 I don't have any relationship with this place, and that 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:02.839 it kind of disconnects everything else, because what am I 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.080 really trying to build upon if it's not to go 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:07.239 home and be better at what I'm doing in my 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.719 backyard and your backyard is I told people that all 0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:14.320 the time. If you being in Montana. Now this is 0:52:14.360 --> 0:52:17.400 not a very grand statement to make, but I currently 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:21.000 live in Hudson, Wisconsin, and if somebody told me, I 0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:22.680 love it too. But if somebody told me, hey, for 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:26.160 the next I'm forty four years old, that they said, 0:52:26.200 --> 0:52:28.600 from from today to the day you die, you can 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:32.160 only hunt within twenty five miles of your house, Okay, 0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:34.440 no problem. I love the things that I go do, 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:36.200 I love the place that I get to go see, 0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:38.920 but I will be like a kid in a candy 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:42.359 store within twenty five miles of my house, catching little 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:47.360 itty bitty trout, shooting three pheasants a year, um hunting 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:51.120 white till deer nearly every day of the season, rough grouse, 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:57.120 huge Canada geese, docks, catching walleyes, moski smallmouth bass. Like, 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:00.160 there's so much. I'm not talking about the people live 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:03.239 in New York City, but there's so much in your neighborhood. 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:05.320 People say, oh, man, I wish i'd go sheep hunting. 0:53:05.719 --> 0:53:07.239 I say, I wish you could go sheep hunting two. 0:53:07.280 --> 0:53:09.279 And I know it's really expensive, but you want to 0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:11.680 know something. The first seven sheep hunts I went on 0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:14.440 were me backpacking for friends of mine that were going 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:16.640 on sheep hunts. And I paid my own airfare, I 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:18.239 paid for my own hotel, and I paid for my 0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:20.960 own food. And I walked in their footsteps on the hunt, 0:53:21.280 --> 0:53:23.319 watched them kill a sheep, helped them cut it up, 0:53:23.480 --> 0:53:26.719 filled my backpack two and hiked it out. And I 0:53:26.800 --> 0:53:30.160 consider those sheep punts every bit is. I don't the 0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:33.880 horns sit in their homes, but every ounce of that 0:53:33.920 --> 0:53:36.320 sheep hunt was ours. You didn't send the bull, but 0:53:36.400 --> 0:53:38.640 he's still You're still there, He's still a part of it. Yeah, 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:40.160 and so that's what I mean. Like when I was 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:43.360 a kid, um, I was in Alaska one time. I 0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:46.040 don't remember. I was there fishing, and I was in 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:49.200 the hotel and anchorage. And if you've never been an anchorage, 0:53:49.200 --> 0:53:51.279 it's so amazing because you can walk out of your 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:53.879 hotel room and the chewcatch mountains are right there. I mean, 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:56.759 you walk out of your hotel room be looking at 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.200 a gas station and also looking at some of the 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:02.759 finest all sheep and moose habitat in the world in 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:05.879 the same view. And so I remember I came out 0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:08.360 of I was staying at a hotel called the puffing In. 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:11.520 It's a little crappy hotel in here. The it's really nice, 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:13.400 actually puffing In. I'm sorry, I said that, it's actually 0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:16.680 really nice. But I'm at the puffing In. I might 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:19.000 get a coupon, but I'm at the puffing In. This 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:21.719 guy comes walking out of his door on the outside, 0:54:21.719 --> 0:54:24.439 and he was wearing blue jeans and a flannel shirt 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:26.480 and kind of looked like Tom Selleck. And he goes, hey, 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:28.000 how are you doing. I said, I'm good. He's what 0:54:28.000 --> 0:54:30.080 are you doing? I said, I'm here fly fishing. He's like, cool, 0:54:30.360 --> 0:54:32.040 So what are you doing. He's like, I'm doll sheep, 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:36.640 just like, man alive, Are you serious your dolls sheep? 0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:38.200 And he's like yeah, And I'm like back then a 0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:40.719 doll sheep and was like eight grand, Like, oh my god, 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:42.960 you bought a eight doll dollar sheep on He's it's like, 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:48.719 I'm going before as soon as you purchased it. Yeah. 0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:50.359 And so I sat there and talked to that guy 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:54.800 like he was king in the world, and I I wished, 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:56.920 I wish we could have coordinated our trips to where 0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:58.759 I could hurt his stories afterwards. But I was so 0:54:58.920 --> 0:55:01.960 enamored with doll sheep, with Alaska, with the things that 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:05.360 I was doing. And on that particular trip, I packed 0:55:06.280 --> 0:55:09.399 using candle light because my electricity was shut off and 0:55:10.280 --> 0:55:12.720 I couldn't even shower before I head to there approached 0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:15.080 my water was also shut off, and so but I 0:55:15.120 --> 0:55:18.560 was I wasn't paying my bills necessarily on time, but 0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:20.880 I was still going to Alaska because that's where I 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:24.759 wanted to be, And so talking to this guy, I 0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.560 was just like, it's just such a dream, Like I 0:55:27.600 --> 0:55:29.239 can't believe I'm talking to a doulshep onter. I can't 0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:31.280 believe I'm talking to a dollshep onter right now. And 0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:33.840 and that stuff is just always enveloped my life always, 0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:36.840 and so I whether it be Bozeman or hot some 0:55:36.880 --> 0:55:41.280 Wisconsin or whatever. Like you look in your yard, sincerely, 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:45.520 have this idea of adventure in your head. Sincerely, embody 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:48.000 what it means to be a hunter, whether that be 0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.759 a gray squirrel, on antelope, a mule deer, a white 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:54.399 till dear, a pheasant. You embodied these things. And whether 0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:57.120 you're breaking down a gray squil, you're breaking down an antelope, 0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:01.839 it is the exact same thing. It's the exact same thing. 0:56:02.600 --> 0:56:07.400 Shooting two snowshoe hair, walking out wearing wool slacks and 0:56:07.440 --> 0:56:09.960 a flannel shirt and your dad's jacket, and you have 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:14.200 an old shotgun and two fat snowshoe hairs in your knuckles. Yeah, 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:16.480 you might as well be holding onto a fourty inch 0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:18.160 dollar ship as far as I'm concerned. Do you feel 0:56:18.200 --> 0:56:20.360 like that's I always think about that. It's like, is it? 0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:22.360 It's I feel like it's a perfect hunting life to 0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:25.600 have that at home. But then also be lucky enough, 0:56:25.680 --> 0:56:28.560 like you have been, and I have been to go 0:56:28.640 --> 0:56:32.319 out and travel and see those things and be able 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:35.000 to you know, have both those at the same time. 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:40.799 And that's fair. Yeah. I hear guys all the time. 0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:42.919 They talk about and we all do. They talk about, 0:56:42.960 --> 0:56:45.839 Oh man, this guy like owners the Eddie, like, oh 0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:53.920 my god, they sold their company for hundreds of millions. WHOA, yeah, okay, 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:56.600 like that's really cool. But I don't even know. If 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:58.960 I was a billionaire, I would still do this because 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:01.080 I still want to go to these hunts. I'd still 0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:03.919 want to see these places in North America. I still 0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:06.600 want to tell you about him. I'd still be hiring 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:08.640 guys that are as talented and I could find, which 0:57:09.040 --> 0:57:11.160 doesn't even matter how much I pay the guys that 0:57:11.239 --> 0:57:13.480 work with me, because I can only pay him so much. 0:57:13.760 --> 0:57:19.400 And there's such soulful individuals and such craftsmen that I'm 0:57:19.400 --> 0:57:21.120 not gonna say it wouldn't matter what I pay them, 0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:24.440 because you know they we're all in this together. But 0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:28.040 it's it's what we love to do and in the 0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:30.240 craft that we love doing, love doing it for other companies. 0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:32.320 You know, we've never worked with Yetdie, but like working 0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:35.560 with Shields or we're gonna like love what we do, 0:57:35.800 --> 0:57:38.920 love going to these places, like it doesn't matter necessarily 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:40.400 that you have all this money. That's why I like. 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:44.080 If I run into a guy at the show and he's, yeah, yeah, 0:57:44.080 --> 0:57:46.680 I'm a grand slammer man when I got all four sheeps, like, 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:51.600 oh okay, that's great. Well, um, that's cool. I don't know. 0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:55.040 But if I run into Chuck Adams, if Chuck Adams says, hey, 0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:58.240 Donny and trust me, Chuck Adams has no idea I'm 0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:00.240 even alive. But if I run in, it's I got 0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:03.040 up and he says, hey, um, let me. If I 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:04.880 had a cup of coffee, I'd like to sit down 0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:07.320 and tell you about my four sheep hunts. I'd like 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:08.960 to sit down and tell you about what my grand 0:58:08.960 --> 0:58:11.520 slam meant to me with my bow and the equipment 0:58:11.520 --> 0:58:13.320 I was using, the bows I was using, the places 0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:14.640 that I went, and the shots that I took, and 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:20.760 the things that I saw. I would freak out what 0:58:21.040 --> 0:58:26.760 I would freak like coffee, but I will chuck some seriously. 0:58:26.800 --> 0:58:29.040 I would if I had the opportunity to sit down 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:31.560 with him and hear him tell me his hunting stories, 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:35.840 what the gear he's using his approach why he shot 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:39.520 the one he did, Like, yeah, there's so much flip out, man, 0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:42.360 there's so much respective in that. Yeah, And I think 0:58:42.840 --> 0:58:46.440 truly when you talk about the Grand Slams and now 0:58:46.600 --> 0:58:48.240 you know, I was thinking about the Grand Slam in 0:58:48.280 --> 0:58:50.720 Dolls Dream this year. I thought, I want to get 0:58:50.880 --> 0:58:53.560 the Grand Slam in Turkey, Yeah, in one year. And 0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:55.760 I thought, is that Am I wrong for this? Fucking 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:58.080 doing it for the wrong reasons? But I was like, no, 0:58:58.120 --> 0:59:01.280 I'm not. I don't think so. Then I was like, fucking, 0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:04.480 I'm doing it like I tend to. You may be 0:59:04.600 --> 0:59:06.600 like me. I tend to overthink all types of ship 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:08.880 when it comes to hunting. Now, there are there are 0:59:08.880 --> 0:59:10.959 a number of people that I have in my life 0:59:10.960 --> 0:59:13.400 that if they listen to this, will be shaking their 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:15.800 head yes, because I will. I got a lot of 0:59:15.880 --> 0:59:18.400 listeners who are like, listen, call the funk down. Man, 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:21.800 it's just a picture, Like I don't know, see if 0:59:21.840 --> 0:59:23.600 you on the same way, and if you say something 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:25.040 to me, I'll be like, did you see the way 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:29.480 he was standing next? Like no, yeah, Like I don't know, 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:33.240 but yeah, there's this somebody like that. It's like it 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.560 got a little twisted in that the Grand Slam for 0:59:36.600 --> 0:59:41.680 somebody like Chuck Adams. I don't know Chuck, obviously, but 0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:44.240 it was more than just the collection of it, and 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:48.320 right it was. It was his life's experiences in his 0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:53.320 way to um, you know, to express his hunting expertise 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:55.000 and his hunting life. That's that's what it was. It 0:59:55.080 --> 0:59:59.120 was him taking his craft two different places, like, Okay, 0:59:59.200 --> 1:00:02.400 I've solved this maze. I heard they have a really 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:04.600 cool mazing idahole um, So I'm gonna go out there 1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:06.000 and see if i can solve that maze. I hear 1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:08.800 there's another cool mazing Massachusetts. And so, like you said, 1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:11.760 it would be a mistake then to take that, take 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:16.600 the number or and make that the achievement, right, because 1:00:16.600 --> 1:00:19.240 the achievement is honing your craft and using it and 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:22.520 to be successful in that way. That the achievement is 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:25.600 not the collection of the thing or the numbers. You know. 1:00:25.680 --> 1:00:30.480 The achievement is is finding respect from your peers through this, 1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:33.520 earning it. Yeah. Yeah, And so that's such a nebulous 1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:36.600 thing to figure out, but still it's there. It's still there, 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:38.840 and if you're doing it right, I feel like, you know, 1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:41.160 you're doing it right. Yeah, and there's no question. Have 1:00:41.280 --> 1:00:44.080 you ever read um Aldo Leopold, Oh yeah, yeah, I 1:00:44.160 --> 1:00:48.640 just like that guy, Sands County. Yeah, I mean like 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:54.600 I I I travel with the Sand County Almanac in 1:00:54.640 --> 1:01:02.200 my backpack every day, and I'll it's just so perfectly written, 1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:07.120 so perfectly lived. He knows why he's a hunter, he 1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:10.360 knows what it embodies to be a hunter because of 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:13.800 the craft that he is, of the steward that he 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:16.560 is for the land, and he realizes the relationship between 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:20.480 the plants and the berries, and the grouse and the 1:01:20.520 --> 1:01:24.040 woodcock and the songbirds and the white tail deer and 1:01:24.080 --> 1:01:27.320 the dock. And it's just it just I've learned so 1:01:27.400 --> 1:01:29.560 much from that, man. I know, you know you talked 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:31.160 to guys like Steve Ronella. I'd say the same thing. 1:01:31.600 --> 1:01:33.400 Read that and it defined me. Do you want to 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:35.560 know what I'm embarrassed. I've never talked to Steve. I've 1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:38.400 never met Steve. I've never listened to a single podcast 1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:41.920 of his. It's gonna change, It's gonna change, and I have. 1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:47.240 I was given recently. I was given his book The 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:53.720 American Bison, American Buffalo, American Buffalo Um so somebody just 1:01:53.800 --> 1:01:55.880 gave that to me, and it's very high on my 1:01:55.920 --> 1:02:01.400 list of my opinion. And I just and somebody who's 1:02:01.400 --> 1:02:03.400 into the history of these these wild creatures. You will 1:02:03.480 --> 1:02:07.040 love that book. I'll live for it. And so and then, um, 1:02:07.160 --> 1:02:10.080 somebody just got me his cookbook for Christmas. Good good. 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:13.840 We said a lot of those things. Um yeah, it 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:16.320 turns out people like to go to stuffy. In fact. 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:20.920 Um so I have one, two, three, four, five, six 1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:24.120 guys in my crew, and four of us got the 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:28.440 book for Christmas. That's all from different people. That's like, yeah, no, 1:02:28.640 --> 1:02:31.280 that's a product of like this, this product of And 1:02:31.640 --> 1:02:33.200 Steve says it all this time, and I think you're 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:37.640 me and Steve have that's not an argument, But I come, 1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:40.240 I I fall on the y side, right. I'm always 1:02:40.240 --> 1:02:42.120 asking why are we doing stuff? Why are we doing stuff? 1:02:42.120 --> 1:02:44.240 That's why I have a podcast, because I just want 1:02:44.240 --> 1:02:47.320 to like find everyone's why and explore it and use 1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:51.360 that the paint a picture of kind of maybe they're collective. Um. 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:53.160 And the point Steve may we did him and I 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:54.919 did a podcast last week in Mexico, and he made 1:02:54.920 --> 1:02:56.240 the point of, like some people just want to have 1:02:56.240 --> 1:02:58.720 a good time. They want to always be saying like 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.160 why why why? Some people just want to enjoy their 1:03:02.160 --> 1:03:05.600 time outside and enjoy nature and not have to be 1:03:06.240 --> 1:03:10.440 saddled with this you know, pretentious why why why? And 1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:12.919 you put out probably the first time I ever really 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:14.880 thought hard about it, you put out a video called 1:03:15.160 --> 1:03:17.200 why we Hunt? Who we Are, Who we are? We 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:19.240 are who we are, which was about why we hunt. 1:03:20.240 --> 1:03:22.080 And um, I've listened to the story of how that 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:23.880 kind of came to be and how you did it, 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:26.200 and um, I think that was one of the first 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:30.360 times that I thought like this, non hunters and people 1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:34.560 that don't do this need this. It's it's we can 1:03:34.760 --> 1:03:36.600 you know, all of us is in the hunting bubble 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:39.080 can criticize what Donnie might have said there, or we 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:42.360 might not agree exactly with the why he said. It 1:03:42.520 --> 1:03:45.400 was not for us, man, this is like, this isn't 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:50.000 medicine for us, it's medicine for for the illness outside 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:53.440 of And that wasn't glad you said that, because that 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:57.560 wasn't well orchestrated. Yea, you made that temper tantrum. Yeah, 1:03:57.560 --> 1:04:00.440 you made that for Nagio. Correct that that's correct, because yeah, 1:04:00.440 --> 1:04:03.800 because this this girl from l A. Her name is Naomi, 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:09.240 but she sat down, really stunning African American woman and vegetarian. 1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:12.000 But she said, yeah, Natio wants to know why you hunt, 1:04:12.040 --> 1:04:16.840 you know, And I was like oh. And then literally 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:18.560 I couldn't come up with an answer, you know. I 1:04:18.600 --> 1:04:21.400 was like, oh, yeah, I hunt because I'm trying to 1:04:21.400 --> 1:04:24.280 come up with, you know, ecological reason. I'm thinking about 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:27.000 like the North American Wildlife model, and I'm trying to 1:04:27.000 --> 1:04:33.720 think of really a y, a single y the base 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:35.920 of the pyramid of wise and I couldn't really come 1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:40.040 up with one. So then we were in the Northwest 1:04:40.120 --> 1:04:42.960 Territories and and Um, William Altman, the guy that was 1:04:42.960 --> 1:04:44.480 shooting me on that triple he shot me on all 1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:46.680 the trips, but he was there and he's like, hey, 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:48.720 let's just answer some of those questions as to why, 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:51.800 you know, in a big rainstorm was coming and and 1:04:51.920 --> 1:04:54.280 um and so he hit record and I was talking 1:04:54.320 --> 1:04:56.040 in the camera and I'd lose my way or I 1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:57.760 talked to the camera and I fumble over my words, 1:04:57.760 --> 1:05:00.520 and I'd see this rainstorm coming and I just keep talking. 1:05:00.560 --> 1:05:02.400 I was looking and had the anxiety of the rainstorm 1:05:02.440 --> 1:05:05.520 coming and just getting piste off at myself that I 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:07.360 kept fumbling over my words and my ideas and I 1:05:07.360 --> 1:05:10.360 didn't orchestrate anything out. And so then it got to 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:12.800 where the rain was right there and and and Williams 1:05:12.840 --> 1:05:15.120 kind of like, dude, you gotta like we gotta do this, 1:05:15.200 --> 1:05:16.919 like the rain is coming, and I was like, cover 1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:20.760 off the camera, get out of my face, walk away, 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:23.480 and I just had, you know, seven minute temper tantrum. 1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:26.960 And then that's what. So we talked about it a 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:28.760 number of times that I would love to apart two 1:05:29.200 --> 1:05:32.400 and actually flesh out, like come up with an outline, 1:05:32.960 --> 1:05:36.120 flesh it out, really talk about it, um and do 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:39.000 it still in an off the cuff manner, because that's 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:42.160 how things are delivered the best for people to absorb. 1:05:42.240 --> 1:05:45.360 In my opinion, Um, but you're right, like that is 1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:50.160 that was just a poorly orchestrated temper tantrum. But answered 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.440 a few. Yeah, And it was fun for me to watch, 1:05:53.640 --> 1:05:55.919 you know, not I fell non endemic. It's just people 1:05:55.920 --> 1:05:58.120 who don't think that we think it's it was fun 1:05:58.120 --> 1:06:00.000 for me to watch, like Outside magazine pick it up 1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:02.560 and other places to pick it up. And it's fun 1:06:02.560 --> 1:06:04.240 to me to just you know, just like you watched 1:06:04.320 --> 1:06:08.680 the person, the non hunter watched the other side. You know, 1:06:09.840 --> 1:06:11.320 something that I like to do is just watch that 1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:14.280 reaction and try. You know, you're you're always going to 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:17.360 get the murder or murder. You're gonna get it, like 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:19.080 we know you're gonna get it. But every once in 1:06:19.080 --> 1:06:21.480 a while, every ten comments or so where every you know, 1:06:21.840 --> 1:06:25.840 you'll get somebody like huh interesting. And that goes back 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:28.919 to in my very first podcast with Ronnella, we talked 1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:33.240 about out of Loophole in in the Sans Cainli Almanac, 1:06:33.520 --> 1:06:35.760 the San kind of Almanac, and he said his brother 1:06:35.800 --> 1:06:40.520 read it and had a conservation epiphany and the ideas 1:06:42.160 --> 1:06:44.960 that were presented in that writing, and that in those 1:06:44.960 --> 1:06:49.080 writings like it was just not even through us, most 1:06:49.160 --> 1:06:53.240 was like directly affected his life. And that that exchange 1:06:53.240 --> 1:06:57.240 of ideas the person he's never met, changed who he was. 1:06:57.840 --> 1:06:59.560 And I think that's probably what we're all trying to 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:01.400 do it and I and yeah, and I could say 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:05.360 the same, like it changed. I fell into the hunting. 1:07:05.880 --> 1:07:08.240 I fell under the hunting umbrella that I see here 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:09.640 in this room and that I see at the a 1:07:09.800 --> 1:07:11.880 t and I see in the hunting camps while around 1:07:11.880 --> 1:07:14.240 the country, and I felt this way a long time. 1:07:14.240 --> 1:07:16.480 And I don't mean this to be disrespectful or to 1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:19.880 make to elevate myself, but I'd go to all these 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:22.040 hunting camps around the country and I talked to other hunters, 1:07:23.120 --> 1:07:25.600 and I would think, I have nothing in common with 1:07:25.640 --> 1:07:27.800 any of these guys other than we're we're both here 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:29.720 hunting the white til deer in Illinois or whatever, like 1:07:29.800 --> 1:07:35.080 I and so. And it's just that I I assimilated 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:38.120 with Aldo Leopold, like his connection to the land that 1:07:38.200 --> 1:07:40.480 he had, and I didn't really put two and two together. 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:42.240 And I just kind of when I first started hunting, 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:44.920 it was kind of that cause and effect, you know, 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:48.200 Like I remember one time I shot a either shot. 1:07:48.280 --> 1:07:50.920 I think I shot a black cat chickeny once with 1:07:51.000 --> 1:07:53.080 a twelve gauge when I was a kid, just boom 1:07:53.280 --> 1:07:57.200 off this limb, you know, and it hit me hard, 1:07:58.360 --> 1:08:00.959 like I you know, I shot at this black capped 1:08:01.000 --> 1:08:04.920 chicken ee um, shot at it missed like it fluttered 1:08:04.960 --> 1:08:06.720 away before it shot at A miss shot at a 1:08:06.800 --> 1:08:10.400 miss shot at killed it. And then I went over 1:08:10.400 --> 1:08:12.400 there and saw its dead body, and of course had 1:08:12.440 --> 1:08:14.080 nothing to do with it. It's a black cap chicken. 1:08:14.080 --> 1:08:17.200 I just shot at the twelve gage. Yeah, so here, 1:08:17.240 --> 1:08:22.840 I literally just was. I popped a balloon, right, I 1:08:22.880 --> 1:08:25.799 flipped the light switch. But this animal lost its life, 1:08:26.240 --> 1:08:30.040 and I did so as an egotistical, little monstrous kid 1:08:31.080 --> 1:08:35.040 sayings or something, and it was terrible. It's horrible, And 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:38.559 I was like, this is nothing of what our lives 1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:40.400 are to be or what this animal's life was to be. 1:08:40.439 --> 1:08:44.640 And even when I started hunting instantly, I was you know, 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:48.040 you'd see these guys out are doing things greater than 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:50.479 you were in the outdoor space. And for me, I 1:08:50.520 --> 1:08:53.400 was lucky enough. Like you said about my beginning, I 1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:56.679 started reading guys like Jack O'Connor that was very well written. 1:08:57.080 --> 1:08:59.599 Knew exactly why they hunted, although they didn't always tell 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:03.800 you why. They knew exactly why and how they hunted, 1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:06.479 and they talked about big, plump, hearty animals. Is funny 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:10.120 when those guys talked about trophy animals. When those guys 1:09:10.120 --> 1:09:12.639 talked about trophy animals, there's all about their body condition, 1:09:12.680 --> 1:09:15.240 about their horn condition, And the reason they were liked 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:17.760 is because of premier habitat and being left alone and 1:09:17.800 --> 1:09:22.040 being and so it's really fantastic, whereas we have made 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:26.800 the transgression now into yeah, look at his and his 1:09:26.880 --> 1:09:28.800 bases for this and this and this, and those guys 1:09:28.840 --> 1:09:31.760 wrote for a completely different reason, and so I felt it. 1:09:32.080 --> 1:09:34.120 I grew up reading those original guys, and I had 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:38.120 a very good understanding of wanting to go and do 1:09:38.200 --> 1:09:40.439 the things that they did. But once I started hunting, 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:45.040 actually hunting and running into hunters, they kind of sucked 1:09:45.080 --> 1:09:48.280 me into that shallow field of Hey, let's just kill 1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:50.160 a big box. This is how you kill a big box. 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:52.479 You need you know, you don't, I'm making all this up, 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:54.559 but you dump corn on the ground, or you do 1:09:54.680 --> 1:09:56.760 this or this, and this is the shortcut. You're you're 1:09:56.760 --> 1:09:59.200 gonna need a slug gun that shoots this far because 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:01.800 this is instantly came a gear. Then you're hanging on 1:10:01.880 --> 1:10:04.320 your wall. You put the pictures up, and I remember like, dude, 1:10:04.360 --> 1:10:07.479 you gotta get a wall hanger, and that you need one, 1:10:07.520 --> 1:10:09.400 and then you need two wall hangers, and this is 1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:11.519 how you do. And if you have two wall hangers, 1:10:11.520 --> 1:10:13.280 then when I introduce you to a buddy of mine 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:15.080 is like, yeah, Hey, this is Nick. He's got two 1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:18.200 wall hangers, you know. And and so I fell into 1:10:18.240 --> 1:10:21.880 that trap. And then once I started actually hunting on 1:10:21.920 --> 1:10:25.240 my own, getting away from these guys, I started enveloping 1:10:25.240 --> 1:10:27.240 myself with the chicken eas and the birds and the 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:30.639 weather and the animals, and I slipped right back into 1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:33.680 the writings of all the Leopold and Jack O'Connor and 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:35.840 all these guys. And so then I started realizing, like, oh, 1:10:35.880 --> 1:10:39.040 I really am different. Either I'm different or these guys 1:10:40.280 --> 1:10:42.280 are putting on the facade, just like I was putting 1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:44.240 on the facade and never really got out of it. Yeah, 1:10:44.280 --> 1:10:46.240 when I was, when we were talking about that on 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:48.400 the on the last recording, it got got I got 1:10:48.400 --> 1:10:50.479 me thinking, I'm like, man, this is gonna sound pretentious 1:10:50.479 --> 1:10:52.200 if I say it in the podcast, but funk it. 1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.400 I'll say it anyway. Like the guys who just want 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:57.719 to have fun and go hunting, I got no problem 1:10:57.720 --> 1:11:01.160 with that either. I want you to have fun. I 1:11:01.200 --> 1:11:03.280 think you need me, though, and you need people like 1:11:03.360 --> 1:11:06.200 you that are thinking about the why, that are thinking 1:11:06.240 --> 1:11:08.439 about different ways to do it, that are examining like 1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:11.960 the tough issues and trying to tell stories that promote 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:13.800 the right things, like if you want to just go 1:11:13.880 --> 1:11:17.360 and have fun, you need you need people that are 1:11:17.920 --> 1:11:20.840 questioning these things. And he and he like the front 1:11:20.880 --> 1:11:23.120 line of defense for anyone that might want to take 1:11:23.160 --> 1:11:26.120 away your privilege to do this. Yes, and I agree 1:11:26.160 --> 1:11:27.880 with Steve. Some guys just want to go and have fun. 1:11:27.960 --> 1:11:32.200 But you need and this is a big idea or 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:37.639 easy idea to compartmentalized, but you need guys that are 1:11:37.760 --> 1:11:40.400 thinking men and women are thinking about Okay, so you 1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:42.280 just want to go and have fun in the outdoors, Okay, 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:45.920 that's great, but you have to have fun under these parameters. 1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:48.479 Because we went out in the outdoors and we all 1:11:48.560 --> 1:11:50.120 just went out and had fun around the turn of 1:11:50.120 --> 1:11:54.439 the century and we shot the entire continent out of animals. 1:11:54.600 --> 1:11:56.720 It was it was fun, a lot of personal gain 1:11:57.160 --> 1:11:59.960 we shot you know whatever sixteen million bison or whatever 1:12:00.120 --> 1:12:02.040 was that we shot. And like, yeah, that's what happens 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:04.400 when you out and have fun. So we need regulatory 1:12:04.520 --> 1:12:08.920 we need seasons, we need licenses, we need habitat, we 1:12:09.000 --> 1:12:11.439 need you know, with ever increasing people we now have, 1:12:11.600 --> 1:12:14.479 this drives me nuts to again another rabbit hole. But 1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:18.360 this whole private land public land. Right on this program, 1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:21.679 everyone wants to talk about that, and and and and 1:12:21.800 --> 1:12:24.040 what annoys me is I'll kill the big sheep, or 1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:26.120 I'll kill a deer, I'll kill a gray squirrel. And 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:29.000 everyone goes first thing, Hey, is that public or private land? 1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:34.439 Used to public? Private? Public or private? Yeah, so I'd 1:12:34.439 --> 1:12:39.519 get at and I say, I, uh, you know, I 1:12:39.680 --> 1:12:44.000 hunt of everything. I hunted on public land, as with 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:46.759 most of us, because if you hunt anything in mountains 1:12:46.800 --> 1:12:49.280 or anything that you're generally hunting on, if you really 1:12:49.320 --> 1:12:50.800 like to hunt, you're going to go and do a 1:12:50.840 --> 1:12:54.160 whole lot of things that are accessible. First. Yes, absolutely 1:12:54.200 --> 1:12:57.240 for the gate open, that's right. And so you know, 1:12:58.840 --> 1:13:02.120 we kind of have this idea of this, the fence 1:13:02.200 --> 1:13:04.320 being built between the two. I had a great conversation 1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:07.519 last night with Lee Chose about this. The problem is 1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:10.040 that we have so many people right now, and we're 1:13:10.080 --> 1:13:14.360 obviously making more every second of every day, and the 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:17.880 wealthy and the poor, the span is growing, and so 1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:21.360 the private sectors growing more powerful than the public sector. 1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:25.920 And so we need these two types of land to 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:28.639 talk to one another. So you need the fat cat 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:32.000 rich guy that owns this ten thousand acres to start 1:13:32.040 --> 1:13:35.439 talking to the state wildlife biologists that owned own this 1:13:35.600 --> 1:13:38.720 tenth represent this ten thousand acres, and we need to 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:40.920 start talking about how this ten thousand acres can talk 1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:43.040 to this ten thousand acres and we can do things together. 1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:45.400 And like Lee and I are talking about last night, 1:13:45.439 --> 1:13:48.400 he was talking about in in the Degradation of water 1:13:48.479 --> 1:13:56.479 following and waterfall hunting, and and the thing is that 1:13:56.560 --> 1:13:59.000 he's like, all these wealthy guys are creating these hunting 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.519 clubs that are beautiful hole, but they're all creating hunting 1:14:01.520 --> 1:14:06.160 clubs for killing ducks, not raising docks, not creating habitat 1:14:06.200 --> 1:14:08.479 for ducks, for killing ducks. Like we have these bunkers, 1:14:08.520 --> 1:14:11.160 we fled flood, this rice field, this cornfield, and so 1:14:11.960 --> 1:14:14.559 you it's just as hunters, you know, we want to 1:14:14.560 --> 1:14:16.559 know did did you shoot on public land? You shooting 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:18.799 on private land? Did you hire an outfit? Were you guided? 1:14:18.800 --> 1:14:21.120 Because if you're guided, you don't have many woodsmanship And 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:23.519 then you know, I see guys ripping other guys all 1:14:23.520 --> 1:14:25.800 the time like oh you're guided, Oh you have no woodsmanships? 1:14:25.840 --> 1:14:27.720 Like no, man, I was hunting in Alberto, which is 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:30.400 illegal to do with so you know, these are these 1:14:30.400 --> 1:14:31.920 are the things that we have to do. But I 1:14:32.000 --> 1:14:36.479 do believe that as we populate this the mothership Earth here, 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:41.519 that we need to protect our public lands, like I mean, 1:14:42.120 --> 1:14:45.360 to the point of war. We need to protect them. Um, 1:14:45.400 --> 1:14:47.920 the fat cats are not going to have our best interest. 1:14:47.960 --> 1:14:50.640 And a few of them that are building beautiful hunting properties, 1:14:50.880 --> 1:14:52.920 kudos to you. I would do the same damn thing 1:14:52.960 --> 1:14:54.800 if I was a billionaire, I would buy up as 1:14:54.880 --> 1:14:57.639 much land as I possibly could. Would I keep you out? 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:00.200 I keep some of you out. But what I was 1:15:00.240 --> 1:15:01.800 gonna say, like, yeah, I really want to get risk, 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:04.080 I can buy land. That's right. That's right, I mean literally, 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:06.559 that's that's that's the next door that opens for me. 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:08.639 Because everything I have right now is what I want. 1:15:09.200 --> 1:15:11.400 I can't grow anymore as a person. I can only 1:15:11.439 --> 1:15:13.320 get better as a man. I can get more kind, 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:15.920 I can get smarter, I can I can work with 1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:18.000 people more. I can mentor people more. I can get 1:15:18.040 --> 1:15:20.800 mentored more. I can grow my own wisdom. But I can't. 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:24.040 I have everything at my fingertips really that I want 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:26.240 in life, and and there are other things that I 1:15:26.280 --> 1:15:28.840 want to chase. But but I'm not looking at them 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:30.920 as a goal to say, hey, I've accomplished this, Now 1:15:30.960 --> 1:15:33.479 I can retire. I'm never going to retire. We all 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:35.120 know I'm gonna die in a small airplane, and so 1:15:35.280 --> 1:15:39.479 I just want to keep chasing every day and getting 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:42.120 this point. But I really think that we have to start, 1:15:42.280 --> 1:15:43.920 you know, like these two sectors are going to have 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:48.519 to start talking. And then I was talking to a fellow. 1:15:49.120 --> 1:15:52.880 It emailed in about um he's works. He's a professor 1:15:53.520 --> 1:15:57.280 UC Berkeley and he studies land use. His name is 1:15:57.360 --> 1:15:59.760 Luke McAuley. I believe his name is. I want to 1:15:59.760 --> 1:16:00.920 have him want to talk about it was doing a 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:03.240 land you study. I don't believe he was a hunter, 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:05.160 and I don't I don't believe he ever hunted. What 1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:08.360 he it was doing land you study, and had was 1:16:08.400 --> 1:16:11.519 looking at the best habitat the best land, the best 1:16:11.600 --> 1:16:15.240 chunks of private land for wildlife. And he was telling 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:18.519 me he stumbled upon this trend that big chunks of 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:22.280 private land that were um leased up or or or 1:16:22.280 --> 1:16:24.599 at least by outfitters or had outfitted hunts on it, 1:16:24.760 --> 1:16:29.280 that had hunting that was for sale basically was some 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:32.640 of the best managed habitat in the country, you know, 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:34.760 and so at somebody who I'm just like, you know, 1:16:34.880 --> 1:16:38.360 public lands, public lands, public lands, public lands, you always 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:41.519 have to like spin it come back a little bit 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:44.599 super trendy to say to say public lands. But it's 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:49.880 like lands, just like healthy ecosistants lands. Whoever, I don't 1:16:49.880 --> 1:16:51.880 give a ship who owns it and managed it. I 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:54.400 just wanted to be owned and managed well. So let's 1:16:54.479 --> 1:16:57.080 you know, so there's perspectives out there. We can't sell 1:16:57.080 --> 1:17:00.200 our public land to the private guys because they earn 1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:04.120 us down. Because certain guys like um, you know, if 1:17:04.160 --> 1:17:06.080 you if you sold it, if I was a billionaire 1:17:06.120 --> 1:17:09.120 and you've sold me, Let's say you have acres in 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:13.080 in Illinois and you sold me that acres in Illinois, 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:15.519 I'm gonna I'm gonna turn it into the best quail, 1:17:16.360 --> 1:17:21.599 wild turkey, songbird, white tailed deer, gray squirrel, fox squirrel 1:17:21.680 --> 1:17:23.960 habitat you've ever seen in your life, because I like 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:28.080 to see that perpetual idea or even notion of harmony, 1:17:28.080 --> 1:17:30.280 because there's a hand in value and like you value 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:33.400 the animal for the animal, and that's what this guy 1:17:33.400 --> 1:17:35.559 with this this private land you study like they value 1:17:35.560 --> 1:17:38.040 the animal for the cash money. Yes, it's work that 1:17:38.080 --> 1:17:40.439 works though as we know if that works, But the 1:17:40.479 --> 1:17:43.720 problem is if you sell that to the wrong billionaire, 1:17:44.880 --> 1:17:48.080 he's gonna say, oh, man, there's coal, there's coal ten 1:17:48.080 --> 1:17:51.960 feet down, and I heard there's maybe oil here, or 1:17:52.240 --> 1:17:54.880 I could sell off all this top soil for this 1:17:55.160 --> 1:17:57.760 development over here, and so then he starts. You know, 1:17:57.800 --> 1:17:59.640 then the thing just gets raped in pillage and you 1:17:59.640 --> 1:18:02.640 can't get burned down. So we have to keep the 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:05.519 public land public. We have to encourage the private guys 1:18:05.560 --> 1:18:08.960 to do um um, to do good work on their land. 1:18:09.000 --> 1:18:10.760 I have a little hunting lease just east of my 1:18:10.880 --> 1:18:15.000 house in Glenwood City, Wisconsin. It's a hundred fifty three acres. 1:18:15.040 --> 1:18:17.280 The dead center of the properties a twenty six acre 1:18:17.360 --> 1:18:20.640 cornfield was a cornfield and when I was a cornfield 1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:23.719 and a bean field, it was just a chunk of raw, muddy, 1:18:23.800 --> 1:18:25.759 crappy ground. And I went in there and I planted 1:18:25.760 --> 1:18:28.759 all warm season grasses. I do do. I'm not totally 1:18:28.800 --> 1:18:30.600 self righteous. I have a couple of food plots that 1:18:30.640 --> 1:18:33.240 I plant that that for animals that I hunt and 1:18:33.320 --> 1:18:35.240 provide food for the deer over the winter. We have 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:38.120 harsh winters, of course, but the majority of it I 1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:41.519 planted a warm season grasses and um and then let 1:18:41.600 --> 1:18:44.840 natural vegetation like big blue stem and gold rod and 1:18:44.840 --> 1:18:47.240 all this stuff come up and and repopulate. And it's 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:50.120 funny because when I leased the land for several years, 1:18:50.120 --> 1:18:52.240 it was a cornfield or a bean field. I never 1:18:52.280 --> 1:18:55.599 saw snakes, I never saw rough grouse, I never saw pheasants, 1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:59.000 never saw turtles, saw very few songbirds unless I was 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:00.879 in the woods. And even when I in the woods, 1:19:01.479 --> 1:19:03.840 there's a lot of noxious and a lot of nonindigenous 1:19:03.840 --> 1:19:07.040 plants that are really choking out the forest floor. So 1:19:07.160 --> 1:19:09.920 really like it was a really sterile property I put 1:19:09.920 --> 1:19:12.920 in all these grasses, and it's just remarkable now, I 1:19:12.960 --> 1:19:15.160 was telling this to lead last night. Remarkable the grouse 1:19:15.200 --> 1:19:18.479 that I see in here, drumming all. It's not pheasant 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:20.920 country at all. And I'll still I'll bump three or 1:19:20.960 --> 1:19:22.760 four roosters when I'm going out to bowl hunt deer, 1:19:22.840 --> 1:19:25.360 wild turkeys. I'm seeing a ton of my favorite things. 1:19:25.400 --> 1:19:27.800 I'm seeing a ton of snakes, and I'm seeing just 1:19:27.880 --> 1:19:31.360 all this stuff, and I just like all I did 1:19:31.560 --> 1:19:36.880 was work on twenty six acres did I change the world, 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:41.320 not one drop of it, but that neighborhood is better 1:19:41.360 --> 1:19:44.519 because of it. Yeah, And I think I've changed, I know, 1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:46.160 I don't think I know that I've changed. Over the 1:19:46.240 --> 1:19:49.240 last year or two, was talking to ecologists and folks 1:19:49.280 --> 1:19:51.960 like yourself, biologists and people that really care about wildlife. 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:55.400 The answer to like, what's the main purpose of your hunting? 1:19:55.720 --> 1:19:57.800 And I would just say like being a part of 1:19:57.800 --> 1:20:01.280 this community, doing this and making the efforts that that 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:03.040 I do, and trying to live the lifestyle the best 1:20:03.040 --> 1:20:05.439 way I can and hold myself accountable. I think the 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:09.800 answer right now is is I'm for healthy ecosystems. That's 1:20:09.840 --> 1:20:13.880 what I'm for. Like even if that means you can't hunt, yes, 1:20:14.240 --> 1:20:16.960 And that's been I would never have said that before. 1:20:16.960 --> 1:20:18.559 I would always have said that, oh, you know the meat, 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:21.880 you know, that's great. I like the Meat Conservation Show 1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:24.360 was having a seizure last night over feel the table. 1:20:24.439 --> 1:20:29.000 He was so angry, like it's I always like, I'd 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:31.280 love to get your reaction to this I came up with. 1:20:31.320 --> 1:20:34.200 In fact, I was bear hunting with rogan Um as 1:20:34.200 --> 1:20:35.840 soon as you going, and we were just talking and 1:20:35.840 --> 1:20:37.479 he was challenging me and calling me an idiot on 1:20:37.520 --> 1:20:40.200 some stuff, and well, she he does and always does well. 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:44.479 And I just came up, like I said, Okay, meat eating, 1:20:44.479 --> 1:20:47.280 meat and conservation are byproducts of hunting. They're not the 1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:49.880 reason I go hunting. They're they're things that I know 1:20:49.960 --> 1:20:52.680 are happening. They know I know the result of the 1:20:52.720 --> 1:20:55.759 thing I'm doing is is these two things. But they're not. 1:20:56.040 --> 1:20:59.320 I'm done saying these are the reasons I hunt. I'm 1:20:59.360 --> 1:21:01.439 done with that. You know, I can't do that anymore 1:21:01.439 --> 1:21:05.200 because I don't think it's true. I don't mean it's 1:21:05.240 --> 1:21:07.479 not true. Because you're just examining your own actions, you 1:21:08.040 --> 1:21:11.400 would almost immediately come to find that it's not you know, 1:21:11.439 --> 1:21:12.639 like why do you hunt with the bow if you're 1:21:12.640 --> 1:21:14.160 just there for the me you want? Like? What are 1:21:14.200 --> 1:21:17.000 you doing if you're just there for conservation? Why do 1:21:17.000 --> 1:21:18.760 you do this? This, this and this and so? If 1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:20.880 you would just examine your own actions, you would find 1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:24.000 that the reasons we often trot out as the reasons 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.280 we go ye, and and that's really it. But the 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:30.960 thing is is that a few of us, uh you, myself, 1:21:31.000 --> 1:21:37.600 other guys have the outside. Um, it's very this is 1:21:37.760 --> 1:21:39.720 more complex than I'm making it, but you might get 1:21:39.800 --> 1:21:43.120 somebody in let's just say l A right. Um, I've 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:45.679 done a fair bit of work with William Morris Endeavor, 1:21:45.760 --> 1:21:48.160 the large talent agency out there, and they've flown me 1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:50.639 in there to. They always want me to find bigfoot 1:21:50.800 --> 1:21:55.160 or find gold in Alaska. Yeah, they want me to 1:21:55.200 --> 1:21:58.519 trap beavers and and uh so all this stuff, right, 1:21:58.560 --> 1:22:00.360 they want me to do all these TV shows that 1:22:00.360 --> 1:22:03.880 are popular right now and and um. But they're always 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:07.880 trying to And it's the same reason I did Who 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:10.160 We Are for Nacchio. If they're always trying to pin 1:22:10.280 --> 1:22:13.479 up why as to like there has to be just 1:22:13.520 --> 1:22:16.479 a singular reason, and like you said, it's tough to 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:19.800 articulate because multiple But when they hear oh, yeah, I 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:23.639 hunt for food, then they go, Okay, you're hunting for food, 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:28.040 so you like organic food, that's why you hunt. You're 1:22:28.080 --> 1:22:33.400 hunting for organics. This is organic Donnie, Donnie the organic hunter, 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:35.640 that's right. So then so then you get guys in 1:22:35.680 --> 1:22:37.840 this hunting show that have no idea why they hunt. 1:22:38.000 --> 1:22:40.040 They don't necessarily have to have an idea why they hunt, 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:42.000 but they certainly have no idea why they hunt. Other 1:22:42.040 --> 1:22:45.000 than they can say, man, I like killing deer. I 1:22:45.040 --> 1:22:47.679 like hunting deer, which is nothing wrong with that falls 1:22:47.680 --> 1:22:49.479 into a little bit of the Steves like I just 1:22:49.520 --> 1:22:51.200 want to have fun. It also falls into a little 1:22:51.200 --> 1:22:52.840 bit of like what you just said, where I'm not 1:22:52.960 --> 1:22:55.120 hunting for food, I'm not hunting for conservation. I'm hunting 1:22:55.120 --> 1:22:57.880 because I'm because of our Really it probably comes from 1:22:57.920 --> 1:23:00.680 our ancestors right where really we step from hunters, so 1:23:00.720 --> 1:23:03.559 we have this innate piece of our DNA that's like 1:23:03.640 --> 1:23:07.120 you should go outside and do something hardy. For me, 1:23:07.240 --> 1:23:09.080 it was like this for me. It was a derivative 1:23:09.120 --> 1:23:11.320 of I can't. This podcast is a derivative of I 1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:13.760 can't figure this sh it out. Yes I can't. And 1:23:13.800 --> 1:23:17.280 so but you continue to ask the question, which continues 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:20.400 to bring you wisdom, which continues to run you into 1:23:20.439 --> 1:23:23.120 interesting people and having fun stories and doing fun things 1:23:23.160 --> 1:23:27.040 and staying and really nice. But um, but the truth 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:29.719 is is that it's not for food. It's not necessarily 1:23:29.760 --> 1:23:33.800 for conservation. But guys that don't have a good tagline 1:23:33.800 --> 1:23:37.439 as to why, then they'll say, oh, yeah, I'm you know, white. 1:23:37.479 --> 1:23:39.960 There's nothing more organic than a white till deer. And 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:42.200 then you say, well, you sprayd all of your food 1:23:42.240 --> 1:23:44.880 plots with round up, and so there's like cafe in 1:23:44.920 --> 1:23:47.559 your deer's meat, and so really it's not very organic 1:23:47.600 --> 1:23:49.880 and so buzz words. Yeah, there was a man. It 1:23:50.000 --> 1:23:51.639 was like a Wall Street drillers. An article I read 1:23:51.680 --> 1:23:55.720 the other day hipster hunters. What was the headline? I 1:23:56.200 --> 1:23:57.760 want to look this up because the headline. I was 1:23:57.760 --> 1:23:59.519 just like, the article is not bad, but the headline 1:23:59.520 --> 1:24:02.519 was like ship. Yeah, I just put they put down 1:24:02.520 --> 1:24:05.280 their kombucha and pick up their crossbows. That's what it was. 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:09.040 It was hipster hunters. Colon put down your camp but 1:24:09.120 --> 1:24:13.040 they put their putting down their combuch. The cross a 1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:16.559 terrible a turn of phrase, like and it's funny because 1:24:16.560 --> 1:24:19.320 I know guys now that I've met that would I 1:24:19.320 --> 1:24:22.360 would categorize as I want to categorize them. But if 1:24:22.360 --> 1:24:24.160 we're going to categorize them, I would say they're hips 1:24:24.200 --> 1:24:27.240 or hunters there lack of a better term. Their cover 1:24:27.360 --> 1:24:30.240 and tattoos. They wear skinny jeans. There had stocking caps 1:24:30.320 --> 1:24:32.120 much like my owner, hanging off the back of their head. 1:24:32.120 --> 1:24:35.120 They're wearing trendy little flannels much like myself and but 1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:37.080 I do. I do it because this is what I've 1:24:37.120 --> 1:24:40.920 basically always done. They're doing it, um a bit more 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:43.519 out of fashion. Right like going to a Filson store 1:24:43.640 --> 1:24:46.280 in any city in America right now, you're not standing 1:24:46.320 --> 1:24:50.160 amongst hunters. You're standing amongst hipsters. And these guys have 1:24:50.160 --> 1:24:52.320 not realized that they can go and buy a bow 1:24:53.040 --> 1:24:56.519 and go to the Parks system in Minneapolis and get 1:24:56.520 --> 1:25:00.599 a Metro area hunting permit by take asking a test, 1:25:00.640 --> 1:25:03.320 and they can go and shoot organic food. Man. And 1:25:03.360 --> 1:25:05.320 they can buy a hatchet, and they can hang the 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:07.719 hatchet on their wall, and and they can talk about 1:25:07.760 --> 1:25:11.160 the stuff at their dinner parties and you know, and 1:25:11.160 --> 1:25:13.639 and it doesn't mean there are any different from us. 1:25:13.840 --> 1:25:15.960 It just came means they came to hunting in a 1:25:16.040 --> 1:25:20.120 different roundabout. It's like it's for them. They're you know, adults, 1:25:20.200 --> 1:25:22.080 most of them. When they're doing this is like this 1:25:22.200 --> 1:25:24.640 easier for them to do, right that it's easier for 1:25:24.640 --> 1:25:26.920 them to explain in the beginning. But I guarantee them 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:30.400 somebody would say like, man, I'm an organic hunter. Um, 1:25:30.479 --> 1:25:32.200 I just go out to get organic meat and that's it. 1:25:32.240 --> 1:25:34.840 I'm like, well, listen, I bet they come back in 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:37.400 five years, hunt for five more years, and I bet 1:25:37.439 --> 1:25:39.360 you when you come back and five more years, you 1:25:39.360 --> 1:25:41.599 will tell me that it's more complicated than just the meat. Now, 1:25:42.560 --> 1:25:46.160 you may start out thinking it's just field table, but 1:25:46.280 --> 1:25:49.519 you're gonna learn and be enriched by so much, so 1:25:49.560 --> 1:25:52.680 many different things in those experiences that you'll you will 1:25:52.720 --> 1:25:55.760 find it impossible to say that's just from organic meat. Then, 1:25:55.960 --> 1:25:58.760 and even when we were in an original society, even 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:03.120 when it was about starve Asian survival, I'll guarantee you 1:26:03.400 --> 1:26:07.200 those people, our ancestors still hunted for a different reason, 1:26:07.880 --> 1:26:10.120 certainly hunted for me. And then some people hang their 1:26:10.120 --> 1:26:12.519 hats on that and say, oh, those people, you know, 1:26:12.600 --> 1:26:15.000 I'll get that's the I don't get very much hate mail. 1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:17.800 It's I feel bad for people that do. I see 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:20.960 some of the I see some of the um. You know, 1:26:21.120 --> 1:26:22.960 people in the industry just say, oh my word, I 1:26:23.000 --> 1:26:25.559 get lit up. And luckily I don't get that lit up. 1:26:25.960 --> 1:26:27.920 But um, I don't either from like you mean, like 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:30.599 from anti hunters. But I don't either, which I get 1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:32.759 very little. It's every once in a while bare photo 1:26:32.800 --> 1:26:34.559 will go up and then some two or three people 1:26:34.560 --> 1:26:36.200 will say something, but you just write it off and 1:26:36.240 --> 1:26:37.920 go on. But yeah, you're right, I don't. I don't 1:26:37.920 --> 1:26:39.439 need here and I don't I don't think that says 1:26:39.479 --> 1:26:42.000 anything about me or you. It's just like, how do 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:44.439 you how do you get exposed to it? And I 1:26:44.439 --> 1:26:46.160 think it's kind of what you're doing. It's the same 1:26:46.160 --> 1:26:49.080 thing because when I posted, when we posted about hunting 1:26:49.120 --> 1:26:52.040 mountain lions, like, that's the easily the most I've gotten ripped. 1:26:52.040 --> 1:26:54.280 And it's still continues, and I don't pay attention to 1:26:54.360 --> 1:26:56.840 it because most people are they're so far off base, right, 1:26:57.200 --> 1:26:59.840 But um, but yeah, I think it's Um, I kind 1:26:59.840 --> 1:27:03.600 of lost my train of thought. But um, we're just 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:06.800 talking about that so many different things. I can't believe 1:27:06.800 --> 1:27:08.720 I just lost my train of thought. But anyway, so, 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:12.679 but it is this, It is this digression of hunting 1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:15.760 for me or we're hunting for a particular reason and 1:27:15.760 --> 1:27:20.160 and uh, and we give ourselves this this notion of 1:27:20.160 --> 1:27:22.160 of that we have to prove why we're hunting. And 1:27:22.160 --> 1:27:25.519 I'll guarantee you even though our ancestors were hunting for food, 1:27:25.840 --> 1:27:32.000 certainly that they're still wash you know something like I'll 1:27:32.040 --> 1:27:36.759 guarantee you lions and hyenas and cougars and black bears. 1:27:36.800 --> 1:27:40.080 I'll guarantee you they get this. You know, when a 1:27:40.080 --> 1:27:42.120 when a black bear is able to sneak up on 1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:44.200 a snow shoe hair and chase it down and pounce 1:27:44.280 --> 1:27:46.599 on it and bite the back of its head, I'll 1:27:46.640 --> 1:27:49.040 guarantee you there's more than just this is a meal. 1:27:49.880 --> 1:27:53.400 I'll guarantee there's a euphoric feeling to them of of 1:27:53.439 --> 1:27:55.800 their you know, their hardiness. And and so I just 1:27:55.840 --> 1:27:58.479 think that I think even back then when we were 1:27:58.560 --> 1:28:02.400 certainly hunting for food and ins and tools, they're probably 1:28:02.439 --> 1:28:05.840 still was you know, probably still got goose bumps. Yeah, 1:28:05.960 --> 1:28:07.759 something in the age. And I think this whole conversation 1:28:07.800 --> 1:28:09.640 we're having is modern luxury. I mean, we have the 1:28:09.640 --> 1:28:11.760 modern luxury to like choose to do it or not 1:28:11.840 --> 1:28:16.000 do it, and choosing to do it is somehow um 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:18.599 requires a why. But you go back to your parents. 1:28:18.640 --> 1:28:21.280 My parents, My dad never had to walk in a room. 1:28:21.280 --> 1:28:22.760 But like, I'm a hunter, and people like that great, 1:28:23.560 --> 1:28:26.160 And what you know, I I walk into a room 1:28:26.160 --> 1:28:27.720 in a lot of places, and I spent a lot 1:28:27.720 --> 1:28:29.800 of time and places where they're not a lot of 1:28:29.840 --> 1:28:31.560 hunters around and I walk in the room, They're like, 1:28:31.560 --> 1:28:32.680 what do you do for living? I'm like, while I'm 1:28:32.680 --> 1:28:35.559 in the hunting industry, I have to almost immediately then explain, Yeah, 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:38.519 what why why hunt? So that's what caused me to 1:28:38.560 --> 1:28:41.519 kind of break into this whole um song and dance 1:28:41.560 --> 1:28:43.519 around why we do what we do and try to 1:28:43.520 --> 1:28:47.200 figure it out because because not because I really wanted to, 1:28:47.280 --> 1:28:51.160 but people kept asking me, and I'm like, have a 1:28:51.160 --> 1:28:53.519 good answer. I guess you know, same for me, and 1:28:53.520 --> 1:28:56.800 and and I enjoy it because I'm happy that these 1:28:56.840 --> 1:28:59.160 people have asked me these questions what I've been Because 1:28:59.200 --> 1:29:01.760 then I started to ask my self these questions. And 1:29:02.240 --> 1:29:07.559 I always asked. I always sought out the adventure. And 1:29:07.920 --> 1:29:10.679 also Jack O'Connor's going to the Yukoni hunting dollar sheep. 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:12.360 So he had to you know, he had to wear 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:14.000 his pack, and he had to go through here, and 1:29:14.040 --> 1:29:16.519 they got some weather and they ran into some grizzly bears. 1:29:16.560 --> 1:29:20.280 So always looking at solving the house and the wise 1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:24.120 of the hunt. But really, when I started asking myself, 1:29:24.800 --> 1:29:27.120 you know, when you go to the Yukon and you 1:29:27.160 --> 1:29:29.040 go hunt, and you go pay to hunt and you're 1:29:29.280 --> 1:29:31.160 now in the Yukon territories. You paid to hunt a 1:29:31.160 --> 1:29:33.040 dollar sheep, and now you're in the mountains, honey doll sheep. 1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:38.840 What are you leaving that place better than when you 1:29:38.960 --> 1:29:41.880 found it? And obviously there's a footprint, you know, because 1:29:41.920 --> 1:29:44.800 we're using up av gas to the airplane wasln't fly 1:29:44.840 --> 1:29:47.479 if we weren't there, And we're obviously leaving maybe a 1:29:47.479 --> 1:29:49.640 bit of litter or something like that on accident, or 1:29:49.680 --> 1:29:51.800 even the litter of our footprints and the litter of 1:29:51.800 --> 1:29:54.680 stepping on tundra or whatever it is. We're leaving our 1:29:54.760 --> 1:29:58.719 marks certainly by being present. But really that also falls 1:29:58.720 --> 1:30:01.960 back on what Steve was saying that, you know, there's 1:30:02.000 --> 1:30:06.320 this idea of fun, and so my idea of living 1:30:06.360 --> 1:30:10.040 my life, my ride on this earth is that. And 1:30:10.439 --> 1:30:11.840 I want to go to the Yukon. I want to 1:30:11.840 --> 1:30:13.479 see dollshep, I want to see moose, I want to 1:30:13.479 --> 1:30:16.080 see grizzly bears. I want to feel the burn, I 1:30:16.120 --> 1:30:18.000 want to be in the rain, I want to see 1:30:18.000 --> 1:30:22.200 the mosquitoes, and and that that's this, This is my 1:30:22.360 --> 1:30:24.240 ride that I want to do on the earth. But 1:30:24.280 --> 1:30:27.400 I don't want to be so selfish that I know 1:30:27.600 --> 1:30:30.920 my candle is going to burn out when I'm fifties, sixty, 1:30:31.000 --> 1:30:33.479 seventy whatever, And then I I know I don't have 1:30:33.520 --> 1:30:36.240 to worry about the conservation of this mothership, this earth 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:37.920 that we have. I don't have to worry about that 1:30:37.960 --> 1:30:39.800 after I die, So I get to just freaking go 1:30:39.920 --> 1:30:43.280 through life like a comet, just burning and destroying everything 1:30:43.280 --> 1:30:45.160 behind me. I don't want to do that. We want 1:30:45.160 --> 1:30:47.640 to I want to leave it better. And because the 1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:52.760 intrinsic value of being a hunter, you know, exactly what 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:54.960 we talked about in the beginning, what what being a 1:30:55.040 --> 1:30:58.240 hunter used to mean. I want being a hunter to 1:30:58.240 --> 1:31:00.519 still mean that. And if it doesn't mean it for everyone, 1:31:00.560 --> 1:31:02.439 I certainly wanted to mean it from me. Yeah. No, 1:31:02.640 --> 1:31:05.639 that's that's man, That's that's well put. And then I've 1:31:05.720 --> 1:31:08.000 you know, I said, recently, we've had these conversations. I've 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:10.479 had some people right in and I don't know if 1:31:10.479 --> 1:31:12.479 you're like me, but I read all the positive comments 1:31:12.479 --> 1:31:16.160 and go right to the negative one, and I'm like, yeah, okay, 1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:18.760 And I've had some people right in like you're you know, listen, man, 1:31:19.280 --> 1:31:22.320 I appreciate the conversation, but you're overthinking it, and you know, 1:31:23.120 --> 1:31:27.280 it comes off seeming pretentious, and I'm like, listen, maybe 1:31:27.320 --> 1:31:30.280 it does. I'm willing to admit that it is or 1:31:30.360 --> 1:31:33.400 might be. I'm not better than you. I don't want 1:31:33.439 --> 1:31:35.080 to be better than you. I want to be one 1:31:35.120 --> 1:31:40.160 of you. Um, but boy, there's some real heavy stuff 1:31:40.200 --> 1:31:42.639 here that we gotta work out. We're taking a little 1:31:42.640 --> 1:31:45.760 bit more work it out together. It doesn't mean we 1:31:45.840 --> 1:31:47.960 have to come up with this hierarchy, and it doesn't 1:31:47.960 --> 1:31:51.479 mean we have to speak intelligently and be articulate at 1:31:51.520 --> 1:31:53.519 all times. We can still hoot and holler and be 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:58.000 village idiots and in the process, but we should probably 1:31:58.600 --> 1:32:01.799 ask ourselves big, differ go questions, and as we approach 1:32:01.880 --> 1:32:04.280 eight billion people on the Earth and growing, we should 1:32:04.280 --> 1:32:07.960 probably keep asking ourselves with difficult questions with greater frequency. Yea, 1:32:08.600 --> 1:32:10.120 how do we get here? How do we get you? 1:32:10.160 --> 1:32:12.080 How we get where we are? Yeah? Well we got 1:32:12.080 --> 1:32:15.479 here in to Vegas with via airplane and it's kind 1:32:15.479 --> 1:32:17.800 of weird. What else? What other shots shre stuff you 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:20.439 got going on? Nothing? We just have, um a couple 1:32:20.479 --> 1:32:22.840 of meetings that you know. We own Sigmanta, so we 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:25.120 do a lot of production for other companies. And we're 1:32:25.160 --> 1:32:27.640 here meeting with Shields. We have some projects that we're 1:32:27.640 --> 1:32:30.280 doing with Shields, and UM meeting with some other companies 1:32:30.280 --> 1:32:33.120 that are interested in in hiring us to to shoot production, 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:35.840 do commercial work, catalog work, things like that. Where can 1:32:35.880 --> 1:32:38.240 people will go see the other side and and you know, 1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:40.640 obviously if you haven't, if you're listening to this, you 1:32:40.680 --> 1:32:43.559 can need to go watch the Rivers divide. The Rivers divide, 1:32:43.600 --> 1:32:45.760 Terranova and the Other Side are our three now and 1:32:45.760 --> 1:32:48.759 and so then go to don Evenson dot com UM 1:32:48.920 --> 1:32:51.559 and we sell it as DVD and Blu ray and 1:32:51.880 --> 1:32:54.439 uh mobile download is not a true download is kind 1:32:54.439 --> 1:32:57.240 of more like a streaming UM and we're working on that. 1:32:57.280 --> 1:32:59.559 Everyone always wants us to put on iTunes, but iTunes 1:32:59.600 --> 1:33:02.200 is way way too expensive for our type of platform. 1:33:02.240 --> 1:33:04.679 It's way it's just people are like put on iTunes 1:33:04.720 --> 1:33:07.200 because everyone wants it at their fingertips, but it's it's impossible. 1:33:07.200 --> 1:33:09.840 So Donny Vinson dot com and then we're We have 1:33:09.960 --> 1:33:12.639 played the Other Side in three theaters so far, once 1:33:12.640 --> 1:33:15.160 in four Collins Colorado sold out as Awesome sold out 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:18.680 to theaters in Minneapolis, and we're gonna do. We'd like 1:33:18.720 --> 1:33:21.880 to do like a ten, twelve, thirteen fourteen theater tour 1:33:22.000 --> 1:33:24.160 across the country and just to bring it into in 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:27.240 front of other people. But yeah, well good, I can't 1:33:27.280 --> 1:33:29.280 wait to watch it. It's good the first ten minutes. 1:33:29.280 --> 1:33:31.519 And then you showed up. I'm like ship, yeah, so 1:33:31.560 --> 1:33:33.559 you'll have to watch it and then and then Texas 1:33:33.640 --> 1:33:36.880 later on. I will appreciate taking the time, man, what 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:39.439 you do, and I really appreciate it. All right, thanks, 1:33:39.800 --> 1:33:46.160 thanks boss, all right, brother, that's it. That's all Episode 1:33:46.240 --> 1:33:51.120 number forty six in the books. Thanks to Donnie for 1:33:51.200 --> 1:33:54.479 hanging out uh in Vegas with us, for taking some 1:33:54.520 --> 1:33:56.920 time from the shot show to tell us his stories, 1:33:56.920 --> 1:33:59.640 to give us a little bit about his life is 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:02.240 and what he's done with it, which is pretty amazing. 1:34:03.160 --> 1:34:06.479 So go to the Downy Vinceent dot com. Check out 1:34:06.560 --> 1:34:08.679 what he's done, check out his work. His latest film 1:34:09.000 --> 1:34:11.920 was talked about, The Other Side, is out there for 1:34:12.000 --> 1:34:16.120 you to watch, and it's a feature length film, which 1:34:16.200 --> 1:34:19.479 is not all that common in our space, So give 1:34:19.479 --> 1:34:22.840 it a watch and check out time. What else? What 1:34:22.880 --> 1:34:25.080 else we got we got? Yeah, hey, we got the 1:34:25.080 --> 1:34:27.519 meat Eator dot com. You go over there to the 1:34:27.560 --> 1:34:31.639 metator dot com and you'll find while you're there the 1:34:31.640 --> 1:34:35.400 newsletter subscribe button. And when you subscribe to the newsletter, 1:34:35.439 --> 1:34:40.880 you're gonna get gifted from us to you all the 1:34:40.960 --> 1:34:44.639 great articles and content from our crew every Wednesday morning 1:34:44.640 --> 1:34:50.640 and your inbox. Ryan Callahan just sneezed. That was a 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:54.639 good one. Bless you. Um what else? What else? Currently? 1:34:54.680 --> 1:34:56.479 If you? If you, if you're listening to this currently, 1:34:57.040 --> 1:34:59.400 I we're in our hotel room and shot we're recording, 1:34:59.400 --> 1:35:02.600 of course the oltro to this current podcast. I'm in 1:35:02.680 --> 1:35:05.920 my underwear and Ryan Callahan is sitting across from me 1:35:06.520 --> 1:35:11.640 and he just sneezed into his breakfast and ruined and 1:35:11.720 --> 1:35:15.920 ruined what was a wonderful hot pocket that he's eating. Um, 1:35:16.000 --> 1:35:20.719 anyway back to but yeah, it's about growing up. Back 1:35:20.760 --> 1:35:23.800 to uh what we were talking about, which was the 1:35:23.800 --> 1:35:26.439 meat Eator dot com. If you got your newsletter, then 1:35:26.439 --> 1:35:28.160 you're gonna go to want to go to the shop 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:32.120 and you're gonna want to You're gonna want to buy 1:35:32.120 --> 1:35:34.280 stuff there, right, you wanna buy T shirts, You're gonna 1:35:34.280 --> 1:35:37.160 want to buy hoodies, You're gonna want to buy all 1:35:37.280 --> 1:35:41.040 kinds of stuff. That's there, Hunting Collective logo, you get 1:35:41.120 --> 1:35:44.519 your pro Nuance anti bullshit shirt, you got Eddie tumbler 1:35:44.600 --> 1:35:47.040 with our logo on it, all kinds of stuff. And 1:35:47.040 --> 1:35:49.559 if you don't like us for some reason and you 1:35:49.560 --> 1:35:51.120 want to buy meat eatter gear, there's a lot of 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:52.920 meat eater gear there. And if you don't like meat 1:35:52.960 --> 1:35:56.439 eater for some reason, there's Ryan Callahan's smell Us Now 1:35:56.520 --> 1:36:00.760 Lady t shirt and all profits good a conservation on 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:02.679 that one, so you should check that out as well. 1:36:03.000 --> 1:36:05.640 And if you have a little bit more time and 1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:09.320 energy and you don't have a lot going on, then 1:36:09.439 --> 1:36:11.960 you're gonna want to look at the events page on 1:36:12.000 --> 1:36:14.400 that website and you're going to see all the places 1:36:14.400 --> 1:36:18.679 we're going on the live tour um, most notably where 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:24.439 I'll be, which is Reno, Sacramento and Boise and hopefully 1:36:24.439 --> 1:36:26.559 it'll be announcing in Austin stop soon, which I know 1:36:26.640 --> 1:36:29.840 I'll be taking part it. So all you need to 1:36:29.880 --> 1:36:33.920 do is go get the newsletter, buy some gear, and 1:36:33.960 --> 1:36:36.000 then sign up for an event. That's it. That's all. 1:36:36.080 --> 1:36:40.320 That's that's nothing. Uh, there's plenty of fun stuff from 1:36:40.320 --> 1:36:42.080 the Mediata crew. Proud to be a part of it. 1:36:42.640 --> 1:36:45.400 Proud to put out this podcast and thank you all 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:49.360 for listening to it as always, And next week we're 1:36:49.360 --> 1:36:52.080 gonna get back to you with episode number forty seven 1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:55.599 with a man named Ian Harrison who is the editor 1:36:55.640 --> 1:37:00.439 of Recoil Magazine, a native of England and has a 1:37:00.479 --> 1:37:04.519 great story about why and how he came to this country. 1:37:05.080 --> 1:37:09.599 So enjoy that next week on the Honey Collective. Bye