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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Renee Stubs Tennis Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am Renee Stubbs and we are here in my apartment,

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Speaker 1: and not only in my apartment, but I'm with Caitlin

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Speaker 1: and with Peco. We are back together, y'all. It's reunited, reunited,

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Speaker 1: and it feels good.

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Speaker 2: That song every time that happened, No, I do not.

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Speaker 2: It's great. It's our theme song of three of the

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Speaker 2: Charlie's Angels.

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Speaker 1: It's been a while since the three of us have

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Speaker 1: been together.

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Speaker 2: What they to see you best?

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Speaker 1: It's bloody freezing in New York right now, it is. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we have a lot to talk about. We have a

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Speaker 1: lot to discuss, of course. The news of Eager Ciontech

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Speaker 1: came out a couple of days ago about her testing

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Speaker 1: positive for TMZ. I'm not even gonna try and say.

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Speaker 3: It is that the gossip magazine from La.

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Speaker 1: That's yes, it is.

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Speaker 2: Maybe she's an avid consumer.

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Speaker 1: She could be. I'm seeing the type, though, doesn't She's

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Speaker 1: more a type to be reading Tolstoy.

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Speaker 2: She's pretty bookish.

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Speaker 3: Could I get tested positive for TMZ if I watched

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Speaker 3: TMZ a lot, which I don't do. I'm asking for

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Speaker 3: a friend.

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Speaker 1: But in other words, you watch a lot of TMZ.

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Speaker 1: I can see you watching TMZ. You don't watch a

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Speaker 1: lot of TV, but I could see you sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of the TV just once in a while getting

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Speaker 1: some Adam Driver gossip.

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Speaker 3: I really like, how was.

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Speaker 1: Your Adam Driver We talked about this last time. Oh

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Speaker 1: we did well. I'm getting it a little early on

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Speaker 1: set dementia.

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Speaker 2: So Giving Day was the day that I heard the

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Speaker 2: news about EGO because I was at home starting my

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Speaker 2: preparation for my beautiful chateaubriand nice.

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Speaker 1: How was it? How did it turn out?

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Speaker 2: Actually? I undercooked it this year.

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Speaker 3: Oh I would have been better or worse than overcooking.

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Speaker 2: It messed up the timing of the serving of everything

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Speaker 2: and we got thrown off by about twenty minutes. So

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Speaker 2: usually I pried myself on a beautifully medium rare. This

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Speaker 2: year was a little rare.

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Speaker 3: You just did it French medium rare French.

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Speaker 2: It is way better to be Is that does that

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Speaker 2: work for everything?

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Speaker 3: Because when, yeah, when you order a pint in France,

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Speaker 3: which is medium, they give it to you rare.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's funny because in Australia, if you ask

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Speaker 1: for medium rare. It comes medium okay, Like it's just.

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Speaker 2: You're like, give it to me, bloody. It is a

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Speaker 2: lump of coll No disk to Argentina. Your country is

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Speaker 2: amazing and beautiful, but your meat is overcooked.

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Speaker 3: They do well. They do it on really hot heat,

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Speaker 3: probably right on the I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know in Australia, although in certain restaurants now in

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Speaker 1: Australia they get it right the spot on. But if

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Speaker 1: you go to like a Mum pop place, if you go,

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Speaker 1: I'd like, well done, it'll come out of the rock.

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Speaker 1: We don't have outback steakhouse. It's the biggest load of ship.

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Speaker 1: Like when I hear those commercials on out Back Steakhouse,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, first of all, we don't even if you

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Speaker 1: asked in Australia what a bloomin onion is, they go, what.

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Speaker 2: Well, you guys should adopt that as a national dish.

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Speaker 2: You're missing out.

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Speaker 1: That's so American. It's so American. It's big.

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Speaker 3: We are doing a lot of things to not talk

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Speaker 3: about the ways because it's another difficult, complex situation. What

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Speaker 3: it feels like, I mean, it feels like we just

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Speaker 3: talked about it with Janick Sinna. It just feels like

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Speaker 3: we've gone through it and the question is really I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's not the question, it's just a statement from myself.

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Speaker 3: It's a terrible look for tennis. I personally believe EGA's story.

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Speaker 3: I again, like I did with Janick Sinna, I read

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Speaker 3: through all the things, I read through the statement. I

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Speaker 3: personally believe her. Whether you do believe or not is

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Speaker 3: up to everybody, I think individually, but regardless, this is

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Speaker 3: a terrible look for tennis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people are probably not

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Speaker 2: going to do the hard work of reading exactly what

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Speaker 2: this compared to Janick Sinner compared to Swa Halap, compared

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Speaker 2: to Jensen Brooksby compared to and so on and so forth,

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Speaker 2: and probably people will have their views reinforced whether they

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Speaker 2: like a player or not, as to whether they want

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Speaker 2: to defend that player or not, which is really too

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Speaker 2: bad because it seems like this is actually another case

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Speaker 2: of the rules and the application of those being just

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Speaker 2: really opaque and confusing for everyone. And I think for me,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm inclined to believe her. It was great

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Speaker 2: and smart that she had her entire team immediately provide

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Speaker 2: the other medications so they could batch test it and

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Speaker 2: confirm that yes, this was essentially an accidental contamination. But again,

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Speaker 2: the fact that tennis is once again being talked about

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Speaker 2: in a way that is casting any kind of doubt

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Speaker 2: about the veracity of the performance of being aware that

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Speaker 2: you guys, not our current number one women's player but

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Speaker 2: has spent most of the year well.

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Speaker 1: She basically a lost number on ranking because she didn't

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Speaker 1: get to defend her points in Asia as well.

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Speaker 2: Ironically, but yeah, like people at the top of the

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Speaker 2: game being in the headlines for the wrong reasons, it

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Speaker 2: is just not a great tennis advertise advertisement. And I wish,

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Speaker 2: you know, I have a lot of things to say

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Speaker 2: about what I want the tennis world to do, but

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Speaker 2: it's not Yeah, you don't want to spend you want

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Speaker 2: to spend the end of the year talking about things

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Speaker 2: that we love this year, things that we want to

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Speaker 2: see next year, best tournament experience, where we recommend people

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Speaker 2: who listen to this show go and experience tennis, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe for the first time, or maybe a Slam that

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Speaker 2: they haven't been to before. And instead it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're all of a sudden experts on doping. You have

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Speaker 2: to like herse scientific yes, exactly, panels of testing, or

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Speaker 2: talk about another governing body with acronyms that might have

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Speaker 2: a political agenda, you know.

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Speaker 3: So it's just like I'm waiting for my biological chemist

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Speaker 3: degree soon after this year.

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Speaker 2: The three of us, you're probably the most likely to

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Speaker 2: get up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that should be your next that should be your

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Speaker 1: next sub steck.

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Speaker 3: And it's so weird, you know, it's not easy to

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Speaker 3: come up with a subject matter every single Friday, espect.

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Speaker 1: One now and now.

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Speaker 3: I took a break because I was like, oh, the

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Speaker 3: season's over. I'm going to take a break until you

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Speaker 3: United Cup and then this happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, are you going to do something.

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Speaker 3: I'm waiting until this season. I'm going to come back on.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you should do something and right about it,

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Speaker 1: because you'll do the research. But I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things, look, let's talk about it. I think there's

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Speaker 1: so many arguments going back and forth. One of them is, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's preferential treatment. Just like with Janick Sinner, he's getting

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Speaker 1: preferential treatment as a number one player in the world,

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Speaker 1: and eager Sheiontek is getting preferential treatment because her ranking.

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Speaker 1: And look, some of it might be true in the

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Speaker 1: fact that they both have money, and they both have lawyers,

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Speaker 1: and they both have a team to be able to

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Speaker 1: get behind them to get to the bottom of it

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Speaker 1: really quickly, as opposed to other things. I think the

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Speaker 1: difference with Simona Hallep same thing, plenty of money, plenty

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Speaker 1: of resources. I think the issue and the difference is

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Speaker 1: that it took her a long time to figure out

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Speaker 1: where the contamination was coming from. That is part of

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Speaker 1: the problem for her. And then also she had quite

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Speaker 1: a large amount of whatever the stuff was roxied that

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Speaker 1: that was in her system, and then there was a

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Speaker 1: discrepancy with ThePort and or biological passport, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: I think that got squashed, I think at some point.

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Speaker 3: But I think because there was so much, it was

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Speaker 3: a hot mesk, it was a hot it was chaos,

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Speaker 3: and that's why it wasn't easily resolved, and that's why

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Speaker 3: it took so long for her. And understand that she

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Speaker 3: feels hurt and then she feels maltreated in a way.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that and I think if these

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Speaker 3: cases have taught us nothing but to look at each

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Speaker 3: and every single one.

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Speaker 1: And independently, Yeah, yes. And you know, look with Sinner,

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Speaker 1: immediately his trainer and physio were able to pinpoint, you know,

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Speaker 1: the suspect issue with the spray with the finger, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Now, whether you believe it or him or

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Speaker 1: them or not is not the issue. The issue is

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have a problem because they feel

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Speaker 1: like because he was number one in the world, he

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Speaker 1: got preferential treatment. No, it was because immediately they were

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Speaker 1: able to figure out where it came from. Now, if

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Speaker 1: it's bullshit or not, it's still the facts are. You

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Speaker 1: have a certain amount of time to figure it out.

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Speaker 3: Right then, I think important just for this, just to

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Speaker 3: underline your point. When these jurors get the case.

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Speaker 1: Rural juror yea, they don't have their name.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think that's just important to reiterate over and

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Speaker 3: over again.

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Speaker 2: Because where it is the sample of a player, they

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Speaker 2: could just be any player. That is a good that

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Speaker 2: is a good reminder.

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Speaker 1: You're a number there. You have a number on top

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Speaker 1: of that bottle and it's like one, two eight, five, five,

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Speaker 1: five six, whatever, and that's it. And you get given

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Speaker 1: a piece of paper when you do your test, they

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Speaker 1: give you the copy of it and you take it away,

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Speaker 1: you know what your number is, you know, all of

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Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And they have two batches and

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Speaker 1: they test two batches. That's why with the thing with Yannick,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well it was twice? Is it? Was it twice?

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Speaker 1: Or is it the two batches, because we all know

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Speaker 1: there's two batches that get left. There's sample A and

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Speaker 1: sample B, and they're from the same p that comes

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Speaker 1: out of you that day, and.

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Speaker 3: They do that just to explain it. They do that

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Speaker 3: to ensure that not one of the samples got contaminated

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Speaker 3: while the test was being performed, because that can happen too. Right,

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Speaker 3: you're on a toilet in a random club house. The officer,

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Speaker 3: the doping officer or agent is standing with you in

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Speaker 3: the stall. You're peeing into it. Who knows maybe somebody

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Speaker 3: cleaned to toilet with a certain disinfectant and the batch

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Speaker 3: can be contaminated or why they are sealing it off.

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Speaker 3: So that's why they split the samples and they send

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Speaker 3: it to the two different laboratories. Laboratories. Is that the

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Speaker 3: right thing?

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Speaker 1: That's laboratories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but laboratory is great.

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Speaker 3: And that's so just this is these are all details

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Speaker 3: that we take for granted, but I think they are

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Speaker 3: important in these cases when something happens, to just know

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Speaker 3: why this is performed this way, to ensure on all

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Speaker 3: fronts that it's really the p that is contaminated and

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Speaker 3: not the cup or the whatever, the doping agent's gloves,

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Speaker 3: whatever it will be. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So let me just situate us in the timeframe

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Speaker 2: of we're now talking four days, five days after the

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Speaker 2: announcement that IgA had a batch of melatonin that seemed

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Speaker 2: to contain a banded substance that was now identified. Her

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Speaker 2: band has already been issued and served.

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Speaker 1: No, she's serving it now. She's serving she's serving the

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Speaker 1: second part of it now.

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Speaker 2: But I guess my point is that administratively is handled

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Speaker 2: and now when she comes back, that will be in

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Speaker 2: the past behind her. And I'm questioning because I actually

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Speaker 2: don't know what the answer to this is. Yannick Cinner

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Speaker 2: is now back in the conversation because Wada has now

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Speaker 2: appealed the decision to dismiss or or essentially count the

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Speaker 2: band that he had been imposed.

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Speaker 3: They are welling to differentiate. Yeah, just so they are

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Speaker 3: basically Vada. In the case of Fianik, they are reevaluating

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Speaker 3: the So they do not think that he was at

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Speaker 3: fault and doping. But what they are trying to re

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Speaker 3: evaluate whether his behavior was negligent or not. Yes, because

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Speaker 3: the ii A ruled it was not his fault because

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Speaker 3: it was the physio who was was using the thing,

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Speaker 3: who was using the spray. It was not him. It's

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Speaker 3: not the same as an egos. That's why she had

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Speaker 3: to have a band or with Simona, where they took something,

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Speaker 3: they did take it personally, it was just contaminated. But

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Speaker 3: with Yannick, he didn't actually take anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't know.

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Speaker 3: It was his physio. And now the VADA is trying

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Speaker 3: to discern, sorry, is trying to discern whether Yanick is

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Speaker 3: responsible for his team and the people he hires, or

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Speaker 3: whether they can rule no fault. That's the thing that

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Speaker 3: they are trying to decide. I think you and I

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Speaker 3: should know that. I think you are still responsible for

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Speaker 3: your team.

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Speaker 1: So that's probably why they've gone after exactly, and I

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Speaker 1: have a feeling that what are going to make an example.

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Speaker 1: I think they will ban him after this strowne open

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Speaker 1: just to make a point.

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Speaker 2: But I want to get the point, just to finish

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Speaker 2: the point that they would be making is that you

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Speaker 2: have to be even moreous about what you or any

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Speaker 2: member your team are consuming using on you having around you.

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Speaker 2: And for those uninitiated the fact that there are two

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Speaker 2: bodies governing this, that I is the problem t A

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Speaker 2: and I T I A I T I A and

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Speaker 2: water who are not necessarily seeing eye on this is

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Speaker 2: adding another complication.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's adding it and it's something. Why are there

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Speaker 1: actually there are actually three?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is the National Anti Doping Agency, the NADA,

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Speaker 3: the World Anti Doping Agency which is the WADA, and

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Speaker 3: then the IT T A A which is the basically

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Speaker 3: for tennis players antidoping agency. And every single sport has

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Speaker 3: an own, not every single sport, but bigger.

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Speaker 1: Sports, the Olympic sports. So basically, look as when tennis

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Speaker 1: became an Olympic sport again, all of a sudden, we

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Speaker 1: went under our national our NADA, basically our national drug administration.

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Speaker 1: So as an Olympian, as an Australian, on the look,

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Speaker 1: someone ranked one thousand is not going to be being

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Speaker 1: to buy their national drug association, right so in Australia,

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Speaker 1: in Germany, in Poland, if you're a tennis player and

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Speaker 1: you're in the top X like top ten for example,

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Speaker 1: you are you are on the list of a possible

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Speaker 1: entrant into the Olympics. Therefore you must be under the

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Speaker 1: national drug testing system as well, so you are under

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Speaker 1: national drug testing. So some people would come to my

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Speaker 1: house when I was playing and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's the Australian Drug Olympic Drug Committee. They're not WADA,

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Speaker 1: and they're not they're not it tennis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they used to be called IF now it's ITAA.

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Speaker 3: But when I still played, they would come. So they

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Speaker 3: have to show you their badges when they test you,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, we are from the WADA or the NADA.

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Speaker 3: And I had did you have two people over?

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Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, excuse me, everyone, the International Sheriffs

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Speaker 2: of Urine are at my front door.

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Speaker 3: So I had two days. It didn't happen a lot.

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Speaker 3: I had sixteen years of my career, but two times,

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Speaker 3: both the ITF and the NA they were in front

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Speaker 3: of my house at the exactly the same time and

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Speaker 3: they were basically fighting over who will get the sample. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this happened to me twice, and to Angie because she

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Speaker 3: was ranked much higher. So they so just as a

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Speaker 3: as a rule of thumb. In Germany, they are really

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Speaker 3: strict with testing. And when I was top twenty player,

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Speaker 3: whether it was top ten or top twenty, but when

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Speaker 3: I was in the best twenty players in the world,

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Speaker 3: they would test me four times a month out of competition,

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Speaker 3: and then on top of that would come to IF

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Speaker 3: and the WADA testing. Angie, who was a top five

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Speaker 3: player for a very long time, she had it happened

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Speaker 3: many more times that all three of the agency at

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Speaker 3: the at her door at the same time, or two

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Speaker 3: of the agencies at the same time, because the higher

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Speaker 3: you are ranked, the more you get tested.

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Speaker 2: Basically that which makes sense to me. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: a little bit computing to eger I E.

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Speaker 1: Yannick.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: So I think just to maybe explain this is my theory.

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Speaker 3: This is very important for me to say, this is

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Speaker 3: my theory. Why do we have more of these positive tests?

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Speaker 3: I think there are three things coming together. Testing has

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Speaker 3: gotten better, Yes, I think tennis has optimized itself so

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Speaker 3: much that all these players are taking every single medication

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Speaker 3: that can make them somehow better, whether that is vitamins, electrolytes, proteins,

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Speaker 3: or thailenol, melatonin, whatever it is that is allowed and

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Speaker 3: that you can use to optimize your body because it

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Speaker 3: has become so professionalized. I think that's part of it.

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Speaker 3: And the funding in an Olympic year is always higher

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Speaker 3: for these agencies test tests more than they usually would,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's why we had the increase in

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Speaker 3: numbers of these positive tests. But regardless, this is a

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Speaker 3: terrible look. I can't reiterate it enough. It's a terrible

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Speaker 3: fucking look that we have two number ones in the

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Speaker 3: world in the same year tested positive for dopia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, it is a terrible look. Here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Apparently the test that that EGA came up with,

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Speaker 1: it was like a grain of salt dropped into an

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Speaker 1: Olympic sized pool. Is the how small all the contamination was,

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Speaker 1: So think about that for a second. Take a piece

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Speaker 1: of salt, drop it in an Olympic pool. It's like nothing.

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Speaker 1: So that lends itself certainly to being a contamination of

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Speaker 1: a batch. Where where these melotonin pillows have come from?

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Speaker 1: And apparently she's been taking them for years for a

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Speaker 1: sleep and we both know her. She's a nervous nelly

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Speaker 1: like we can't even imagine her taking something of a substance,

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Speaker 1: of a positive it's gonna put her in a positive substance.

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Speaker 1: Because she's so nervous about everything. She'd be like, are

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Speaker 1: you sure I'm allowed to take this? I mean that's

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Speaker 1: the thing about Simona. I mean, you know, you know

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Speaker 1: that was the one thing Darren said. He's like, she

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Speaker 1: would ask what is in this? What is that? But

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Speaker 1: then when she started working with Patrick, it's like it

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Speaker 1: seems like she wasn't as diligent, diligent with her own independence.

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Speaker 1: It was like she gave the independence of herself and

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Speaker 1: her choices.

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Speaker 3: To Patrick the responsibility, yes, and that's to just make

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Speaker 3: choices on her.

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Speaker 1: She said that. He said that, whereas Darren was always

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Speaker 1: like she was so on top of it with the

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Speaker 1: Romanian guy that was with her and Darren and everyone,

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Speaker 1: she'd be like, are you sure this is okay? And

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that she gave up way too

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Speaker 1: much of her own power. I think that's where she

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Speaker 1: got fucked when it came to working with Patrick and

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Speaker 1: his team, is that she sort of gave over her

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Speaker 1: independence of what am I taking, what am I doing,

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Speaker 1: what am I training regiment to him. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he has come out. Eventually took him forever to say

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Speaker 1: it's on me because this is my team that I

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Speaker 1: brought in. So why anyone would want to work with

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Speaker 1: him anymore, I don't know, because that to me is

365
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Speaker 1: such a such a bad look. But with Eager, I

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Speaker 1: just feel like you said it already. The testing has

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Speaker 1: gotten so good, and I think over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days, WADA has basically come out and said we

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Speaker 1: need to be a little bit better of if it

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Speaker 1: comes back so minusculey, how are we going to handle

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Speaker 1: this going forward because that is such a bad look

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Speaker 1: for the player, and you know they've already admitted essentially

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Speaker 1: you know here it is in the batch, the same batch,

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Speaker 1: say numbers the whole thing. There was definitely TMZ in

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Speaker 1: this batch. And apparently where they do the melatonin these

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Speaker 1: pills come from, they do also sell TMZ. So you

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Speaker 1: can see how easily could possibly get contaminated so minutely

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Speaker 1: in a bottle of melatonin. It's almost like, wa, it

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Speaker 1: needs to come up with it if it is a

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Speaker 1: certain amount, we don't even make it public because again,

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Speaker 1: this is just ruining a player's reputation.

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Speaker 3: I will say I think Eager handled it the best

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Speaker 3: of all players with her video speaking right down the

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Speaker 3: barrel in her language where she feels most comfortable with

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Speaker 3: the translation, of course in subtitles. But I was really

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Speaker 3: moved by Ardita because you could see the distress also

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Speaker 3: the relief that it's over in her mind, and just

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Speaker 3: explaining right down the barrel as if she was looking

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Speaker 3: into your eyes. I thought that was really powerful from her,

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Speaker 3: and I have to say she really gained my respect

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Speaker 3: and appreciation that she did that, because I think that's

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Speaker 3: really hard.

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Speaker 2: I think you and I both it's a lot of

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Speaker 2: poise for early.

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Speaker 1: Twenty one.

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Speaker 2: It's something very serious that you know, do you essentially

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Speaker 2: get called into the principal's office. That's a bad It's

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00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:15,640
Speaker 2: going to be.

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Speaker 1: Interesting to see how she comes out of it, too,

400
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: because knowing her pretty well, you know her reasonably enough,

401
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think that you know she's the type

402
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 1: of person that is quite panicked on the court and

403
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: plays with fear and all that sort of stuff, sort

404
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: of how you talked about Rafa. It'll be interesting to

405
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: see how she reacts now knowing that you know tennis is.

406
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 1: It's a joy for her, but it's also very stressful.

407
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Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see how she handles it going forward,

408
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 1: because it might give her a bit of a lease

409
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Speaker 1: on her tennis to be like, oh God, I'm so

410
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Speaker 1: happy I'm playing. You know, I actually really do appreciate

411
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Speaker 1: being on the court now as opposed to God, I

412
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Speaker 1: could have had a band of a year or two

413
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Speaker 1: or eighteen months or whatever it was if they hadn't

414
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Speaker 1: found it or figured it out. But also I just

415
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 1: really think that, you know, I hope Wada does look

416
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Speaker 1: at this and say how much is too much and

417
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: how much is not enough to be able to make

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Speaker 1: it public Because to me, with this particular situation, maybe

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Speaker 1: even with the Annik, it's like it was so minuscule.

420
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: How what are we going to do going forward to

421
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: not ruin a player's reputation? You know? Now with Simona

422
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: now we've have situations like the British player that got

423
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: banned as well Tara Moore, and apparently she's sort of

424
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 1: it was a very similar situation. And she also was

425
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Speaker 1: able to find where it was coming from. I think

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Speaker 1: it was the meat in Argentina.

427
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Speaker 2: Or where and she got a log wasn't well done enough.

428
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Speaker 1: It was not well done enough. But how she said

429
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Speaker 1: she feels like it was very similar, but she didn't

430
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Speaker 1: have the money to be able to lawyers. And yes,

431
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: that is a problem, but that's where a player's association

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Speaker 1: needs to be a part of this.

433
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Speaker 3: I think this is where we all look at keithlin

434
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Speaker 3: Yees texting, I'm.

435
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 2: Trying to move back a meeting so we can talk

436
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Speaker 2: about this a little longer.

437
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Speaker 1: For me, the.

438
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 2: I have so many questions about, like what is the

439
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 2: purpose of anti doping in a sport where we have

440
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 2: players getting supplements and working with teams from all countries,

441
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: where certain standards, certain things are purchasable over the counter,

442
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: Like none of this is very intuitive. None of this

443
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 2: seems to make a ton of sense to me. And

444
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: I think whether or not you agree that we should

445
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: have a clean sport, which I think most people agree,

446
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm actually the outlier who doesn't really care candidly about

447
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 2: doping because I feel like tennis is so hard and

448
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: unlike a sport, like you know, this is the gulf.

449
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: This is the part where everyone gets mad at me,

450
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 2: which I'm fine with. If you're taking steroids, for example,

451
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 2: like something that is meant to make you bigger, and

452
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: you're playing on the offensive line of a professional football team,

453
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 2: and you can take off the other person's head. Yeah,

454
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: that's a danger to you.

455
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, you can't have it in Tennessee because

456
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: if you're taking shit, that's allowing you to be on

457
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: the court for three hours and not be as tight

458
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: as me.

459
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that we are catching people who are

460
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: doing that with blood doping and various things. So for me,

461
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: the notion of having a clean sport is I don't know.

462
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit cynical that it's possible to get that. Said,

463
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: if we all agree that we're going to test and

464
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: make the protocols that we have in place function, then

465
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: it seems like something definitely needs to change, both in

466
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,360
Speaker 2: terms of the sensitivity the tests, which are clearly more

467
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: sophisticated that they need to be with regards to who

468
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: what they are actually intending to catch, and then also

469
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: just the transparency of the system. I think a lot

470
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 2: of the issues that people have with this is that

471
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: there are three different bodies seemingly in conflict with each

472
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: other or at times in conflict with each other, And.

473
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 1: There's also the length of It's also the problem with

474
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people are having is the length of suspension.

475
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: There's certain things and not certain things.

476
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 2: Does seem a little bit arbitrary. I also happen to know,

477
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you guys, but.

478
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: Is it auditary because it does.

479
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 2: Seem to be arbitrary. It seems like sometimes people need

480
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: to want to be made an example out of and

481
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 2: sometimes people are totally you know, accepting of the place

482
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: or excuse. I would also like to know which players

483
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 2: are on If we're going to go down this road

484
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: and care what people are taking, then I'd like to

485
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: know exactly what medical exemptions people have for for Yeah,

486
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 2: add add there's a lot of grumbling, especially among the men,

487
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 2: feeling like the abuse of Rittlin and other ADHD drugs.

488
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 3: I've never taken it, but maybe you can speak on it.

489
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,239
Speaker 3: I heard that this is this technically would be the

490
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: best open you can have in tennis because the.

491
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: Thing that lot for three hours stay focused would take

492
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 2: over in a heartbeat. That would actually be helpful.

493
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to be a professional. You can

494
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: be an amateur playing matches in your club to know

495
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 3: that the things that lose you a match is the

496
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 3: thirty seconds you wandered off because you were like, my

497
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: kids are there.

498
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I know one player that's on medication

499
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: for ADHD.

500
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: Well, if they do have ADHD. On the other hand,

501
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: if you actually have ADHD, I live with somebody who

502
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: has ADHD, that is freaking a hard condition to live

503
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 3: your life with. And then a professional tennis player, yeah,

504
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 3: I mean for anything, because you.

505
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: Could be like standing there and all of a sudden

506
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: you got bright point and then all of a sudden

507
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: you start looking around like, oh, he's in the crowd.

508
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: Oh what no, focus, Like that's not rafa, you know

509
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: what I mean?

510
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: Knowing that these are not simple conversations, knowing that these

511
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: are highly emotional for both the fanship obviously the teams

512
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: who feel like they've been well.

513
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: Have you read some of the shit on Twitter?

514
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: And I don't. I don't currently exist on Twitter anymore good,

515
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: But also because of the other players seeming to like

516
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 2: roll their eyes at the verdicts, who are maybe yeah,

517
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: for me, what a long. We're not going to fix

518
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: all these things, not one agency or one person certainly,

519
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: but I think having a leadership that would be out

520
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: in front of this, explaining it consistent and having again

521
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: one sort of unified voice tennis really does need a commissioner.

522
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: It needs somebody to be the way that the NFL

523
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: when there's an issue, or FIFA or the IOC. You know,

524
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 2: nobody thinks that the.

525
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: IOC Laurel is our corrupt.

526
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 2: Totally clean organizations. Correct that. I don't think the goal

527
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 2: here is reasonable.

528
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: I think I know where they're going. You just want

529
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: them to all to be like, fucket just let everyone

530
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: take drugs.

531
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: Honestly, no now, listening to Kitin, I think she's gonna know.

532
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: But then it comes down to money, I guess, but right.

533
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 3: That's true. True, But I honestly you kind of convinced

534
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: me because.

535
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: Someone one hundred in the world kind of for the

536
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: best chemist. But someone like you know that's true.

537
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: But then if all top one hundred players took adderall

538
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 3: or ritalin, then at least the player think.

539
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: About how the quality of the tennis would be. I

540
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: don't think whether or not my crazy thought experiments are correct.

541
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: I think a long way towards gaining trust among the athletes,

542
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: among the fanship, and among the stakeholders would just be

543
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: to have a person to be like, yeah, I'll take

544
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 2: your questions. Here's why we're doing this. I admit it's

545
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: not perfect. Here's what we're trying to achieve, here's what

546
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: we're going with these goals.

547
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 3: So instead of us basically having to read seventeen different

548
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: sources to try and gather what the thing is about,

549
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 3: you mean, there should be one person that explains exactly

550
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: what is the difference.

551
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: To achieve this, the reason that Yanik is different from

552
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: palap is different than than Ega is this, and just

553
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: have essentially what we're trying to create exactly to your

554
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: point right now, which is a reasonable conversation among reasonable people.

555
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 2: There was also, and this is sort of just very true,

556
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: a woman, Eliza West, who we sometimes do content with,

557
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: was sort of saying, what if what if Tennis had

558
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: one big pharmacy? What if the tours pulled their resources?

559
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: Well, the women do women have had you Sana, and

560
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: they're still using pharmacy that works.

561
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 2: All of the supplements and all of the things that

562
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: the athletes took were just from this one pharmacy. If

563
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: there's a bad batch and it got it got spine.

564
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: That's what happens with the women they have you Sana.

565
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: And if you get caught with a positive test with

566
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: anything from the Yusana package, they give you like a

567
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: million dollars, like they're putting their money where their mouth is.

568
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: And I guess what if we had a store where

569
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: they all could go and be like, well, I was

570
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: I only take the melotone and then the tour gave me.

571
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: So if there's something wrong with the melotone, and it's

572
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: because the what if you did something like that where

573
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, we're gonna still create a list

574
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: of band and approved substances, but they all come from

575
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: the same source, so we don't have to be like, oh,

576
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 2: I guess I'll buy two of everything just in case

577
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: I get batch tested. Like it just seems like we're

578
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: putting a lot on these athletes.

579
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: As I was saying, there is the WTA have you Sauna,

580
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: and there are supplements that they do give to the

581
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: players and everyone collects them at the physicals.

582
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: But that's just supplements. So Caitlin is arguing.

583
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: Or Eliza, everyone everything.

584
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: Well and there should be medication as well. So if

585
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 3: you have a headache before you go on the match,

586
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 3: instead of taking title noll.

587
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: You go to the WTA and ye take here's my

588
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 4: muscle relaxing, like exactly WTTA and all, and also think

589
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: about the amazing like they've become essentially a pharma company

590
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 4: and they probably make a lot more money.

591
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: But I also think, like you know, we're talking about

592
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: the WTA here, well, you'd have to convince them to

593
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: try to be business people and try to figure out

594
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: how to make more money. But I think you maybe

595
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: could hold their arms and get them there. But I think,

596
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 2: like you know, in the NBA, in the NHL, in

597
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: other leagues, it's like you have the team doctor, you

598
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: have the team resources. What if we could start to

599
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: try to kind of replicate that where it's like, oh,

600
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: Tennis has you know, essentially an online pharmacy with pre

601
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: vetted vendors and whatever you want. Also that would let

602
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: people know, like, hey, Renee has a cold shoulder this year,

603
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: so she's taking muscle relax and for this it's been

604
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: approved and it's on the list, and it's just she's

605
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: getting it from this and we know about it. Right

606
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: if you wanted to.

607
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 3: Play there, because then if you go outside, that didn't

608
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: even have to be So it doesn't even have to

609
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: be It doesn't even have to be a full pharma company.

610
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: It could just be a digital marketplace where they collect everything.

611
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: Up and up, so you're if you're and then if

612
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: you're caught with something else, then it's.

613
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 3: Like that's you, and then you have to be banned

614
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: no matter who and what you are and what happens.

615
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Right, It's like if all of a sudden, you know

616
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: you from store.

617
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: And then you just have like three bands three months

618
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: six months a year, that is the thing. Is it

619
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: really like if you do a death? Nick not even

620
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: he didn't even get caught by doping agencies. He got

621
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: caught by the customer in Australia.

622
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. God, I forgot about it, remember this. Yeah,

623
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: So anyway, I think the bottom line is I think

624
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: for all of us, we feel like this was absolutely

625
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: something that was not nefarious. This was a complete and

626
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: other It's very unlucky. My thing is, and I said

627
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: this to you Caitlin a couple of times recently as well.

628
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: I think if you don't have a band and there's

629
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: it is suspect you're looking into it, if you're WADA

630
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: or it IA or whatever. Nobody needs to know if

631
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: they're found to be not negligent and they don't, you know,

632
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: have a band, we shouldn't know about it because it

633
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: just ruins their reputation. Now, if they're a banned for

634
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: two years or a band for six months, yes hell,

635
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: yes we should find out about it. But I think

636
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: if you're not going to ban them, obviously she's been

637
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: given a you know, she couldn't play in Asia, and

638
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: now she's been given this extra one month in between

639
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: her last tournament in here, which was kind of everyone's like, well,

640
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: that's weird in and of itself. I'm like, well, if

641
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: she's found not, if she's found not their fault. Yeah,

642
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean we shouldn't know about it. We talked about

643
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: this last time with Yea.

644
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

645
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I just don't feel like we should

646
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: know about it. I think it just ruins people's reputation.

647
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: Now.

648
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm all for throwing people into the bloody under the

649
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: bus if they've done it and they've been found at

650
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: fault and they're the ones that did it, But in

651
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: this circumstance, I'm like, really, do we really need to

652
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: know about it now? Forever in a day, everyone's going

653
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: to say it's because of this, and it's because of that,

654
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: oh of course, ego.

655
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: I think also like having a having a chair person

656
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: just takes a lot of the heat off of the

657
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: players so that it doesn't feel like such a every

658
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: person for themselves. The tour chairperson, the tenant, the spokespersonal

659
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: chair of tennis could say like, hey, listen, this is

660
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: to your point why each of these cases is a

661
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: little different. Here's what we're trying to do. Here's what

662
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: we're trying to achieve. You know, we're obviously always on

663
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: the side of players, but in some cases, you know,

664
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: if players spend the rules, and here's when we feel like,

665
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: unequivocally does that.

666
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: How do we feel about these players?

667
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: Like I feel like Igochiantec, who you think I don't

668
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: like her? I don't not.

669
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: I did not say that, Yes you did. I you've

670
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: said some contro things I have.

671
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: I compared her to another player who I think was

672
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: also similarly not We don't need to talk about it.

673
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: Who I love justin Tenna. But I think for me,

674
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: the the fact that she in a poised, tiery or

675
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: sort of a poised, really emotional way has to you know,

676
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: appeal to people through a video chat. What that's like

677
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 2: A that's a bad outcome for her too, Like.

678
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it is terrible.

679
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: You know, I'm aware of how exploitive playing professional sports is,

680
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: especially one that makes players feel like they're as alone

681
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: as tennis players probably feel they have to be their

682
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: own pharmacists. They have to be their own you know,

683
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: head of human resources, making their own coaching decisions, making

684
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: their own paying further, and she's kids are kids, and

685
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: like she's facing a very very serious allegation that she

686
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: handled really beautifully and with poise. But should she have to?

687
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. But I hype that WATT is

688
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: being serious about looking into If it is so minuscule,

689
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: do that test. They should have just done that test.

690
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, here it is. It's it's a fucking grain

691
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: of salt in a you know, fifty made a swimming pool.

692
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: We don't need to put this.

693
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: TOURS should come out of this, in my view, saying

694
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: we no longer recognize or want to work with this

695
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: organization unless the threshold for noting is x yder C.

696
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: When I was in college tennis, I had a school test,

697
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: we had a conference test, and we had an NC

698
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: double a test. So hearing you guys explain the three levels,

699
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: all of a sudden made sense to me because of

700
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: course the nc double A test was the hardest, was

701
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: the most stringent, and was the one that came the

702
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: most by surprise. And it made sense to me because

703
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: as an NCUBA athlete receiving a free scholarship for college,

704
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: they were entitled to know how we were behaving and

705
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: whether we were taking you know, supplements or not. So

706
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 2: it was I understood it. But again, to what end

707
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: are we doing this? And how how is this.

708
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: How help for?

709
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: How is it helpful?

710
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: I think the biggest difference here is and there is

711
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: no getting around it unless we change tennis the sport

712
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: from the ground up is that in every other sport

713
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: you are more an employee than a self employed person.

714
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: Tennis is probably the only sport where you are strictly

715
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 3: the sea. Well us to but that's not a sport,

716
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: that's a game.

717
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, I agree with you.

718
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 5: We just shed on a little other sport. We just

719
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 5: shed on a little other sport.

720
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, just started making more

721
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 3: arguments accept golf as a sport.

722
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: No, we all agree.

723
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: It's usually it's me, but it's like maybe the only

724
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: sport where you're the CEO of your own company and

725
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: as you just rightly put Caitlin, you have to hire

726
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: all the people and make sure that you're clean and

727
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: all the while, playing tennis and trying to become.

728
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: Tennis is so hard, so hard, and it's like one

729
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: of the so many things that these people are.

730
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: He is already paranoid about everything going on in her life.

731
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: She looks like she's panicked about everything at all times.

732
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: You think she's gonna be pet go And I'm like,

733
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: you can't even imagine someone like Eager doing something illegal,

734
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: because she'd be just on the court. You could tell

735
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: in the first point she'd be like, do they all know?

736
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: Do they all know? Oh? My god, Like I'm a

737
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: great layer. Like there's just no way. She's like the

738
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: last person to have done something like that, because you

739
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: could just see in her life she'd be like, Oh,

740
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: they all know, they all know.

741
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: This happened to me two days ago. I took an

742
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: accidental accidental, well, I took it on purpose, but I

743
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: thank you, dosed my self with a recovery gummy. That

744
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: was a pre performance.

745
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: Okay, but hold on, you just said it. You took

746
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: a recovery gummy prior to playing tennis.

747
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 2: It was it was a preect.

748
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: Can I ask you before she finishes the story if

749
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: you say something, I.

750
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: Would have already a recovery an interview.

751
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 3: If you go to a.

752
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: Recovery something, what does that mean?

753
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: Say no to drugs. That's all I have to say.

754
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: So you took a recovery gummy before you played.

755
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 2: I have misspoke. It was a performance gummy that helps

756
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: with recovery.

757
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: So it is meaning it's for recovery.

758
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: You're supposed to take it beforehand so that your recovery

759
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: is easier.

760
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: What it is called is THHC.

761
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: It was spiked with THHC and that was the feature,

762
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: not the bug. It was supposed to be. And I

763
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: had a terrible hour of panic attack on the tennis cart.

764
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you were high. It was scary. You were high.

765
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: I realized the core emotions of each of my strokes.

766
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

767
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: So in other words, what you're saying, I want to

768
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: recommend it weed is not to performance in Hanser, not

769
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: in the least, because you've done it all, You've done meldonium,

770
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: You've done this.

771
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: You tried to be said was awesome.

772
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

773
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I cannot recommend it enough.

774
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: Because unless you're playing professional tennis, do not take it.

775
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, don't take it if you're being administrated.

776
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 2: In my own defense, I asked the USTA, I said,

777
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 2: I am taking a performance enhancing drugs. I'm planning to

778
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: do this. Do you guys have any rules against this?

779
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: And they said no, we think this is stupid, but

780
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: it is not against the rules.

781
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: Did they say stupid?

782
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: Totally?

783
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: I told the the USDA officials. I told my fellow

784
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: teammates people I would be competing against. I'm going to

785
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: have an edge, and they're like, are you you know?

786
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 2: Because they know I've done it, I'm still going to

787
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: make dumb joys.

788
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 3: Like I changed the grip of my forehand a week ago.

789
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: But I also I'm taking meldonia. But one question, if

790
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 3: we are going from all in, you're saying let's just

791
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 3: allow everything, how about we go all out and say

792
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: that's not allowed. Let's not allow anything, you.

793
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, like cold medicine and nothing.

794
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: As long as you're a professional athlete, you're not allowed anything.

795
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 3: How would that be shit?

796
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: Terrible? We're basically already like that. Like I remember when

797
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: I would get a cold, which I still sound like

798
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: I do because it's been like twelve days, it's like,

799
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: and why am I not taking something illegal? But anyway,

800
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: it's like you were so paranoid to take anything. You're like, Okay,

801
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: a title, No, I guess I can take maybe cold

802
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: and flu. No, I can't take that. It's got a

803
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: pseudo effortrine in it. You're like a fucking not.

804
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: It was not you want to hear the best story ever. Okay,

805
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 3: it's not the best story ever. I shouldn't have started

806
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 3: it like that. But so to your point, the no spray,

807
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 3: how do you the afron?

808
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: Is that how you like an affron?

809
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: Yeah? So nasal sprays and most of them, I think

810
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of them have fatiments, yes, and fetaments

811
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 3: in them. So they are all on the band substance list.

812
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: And so while I was playing for sixteen years, I

813
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 3: had never take and no nasal spray in my entire

814
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: life basically. And I had COVID while I was still playing,

815
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: and my sister gave me her badge of medication because

816
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: she had had it before me. Two weeks dryer covid. Yeah,

817
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: And there was like and it was while I was

818
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 3: still playing, and there was a bunch of things that

819
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: I was allowed to take, but there was also a

820
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 3: nasal spray a spray, and I just put it to

821
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: the side and didn't take it because you know, I

822
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 3: was still playing tennis. A year later, I retire from tennis.

823
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 3: I get it cold. I take my medication out and

824
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 3: I see this the spray, and I'm like, oh, now

825
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: I can't take it. I'm gonna put it and I

826
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 3: couldn't breathe. I shoot it up my nose and I'm

827
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: like on the floor, dying, crying, sneezing for an hour.

828
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, this is what people do,

829
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 3: sprays that fucking intense. It did clear up my sinus,

830
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: of course did an hour later. I look at it.

831
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: It was a spray for your throat.

832
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: Oh no, you.

833
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: Use the wrong spray, and.

834
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: It was a spray for your throat to kill bacteria

835
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 3: in your throat. Then I shut it up my brain

836
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 3: like a dumbda. So in case I make it, don't

837
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 3: make sense. This is why I don't make sense, because

838
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 3: I probably burned half of my brain with this throat spray.

839
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you even taste or smell? I think if

840
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 2: you did know nothing nothing allowed. And you sent everyone

841
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: to like the Amish country, to like train in the

842
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: off season. I mean I could see a really cool

843
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: reality show there where it's like who who is really

844
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: the strongest, Who is really the most mentally tough, Who

845
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: is really like the best immune system? Yes, you know,

846
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: who's gonna make it in.

847
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: Taking antium trees nothing for an injury?

848
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just would make if you make if you

849
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 3: make an argument for why don't we allow everything? Because

850
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 3: everyone is doing, you know, based on the money and resources.

851
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean Sam Stars was taking amobic every day for

852
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: her shoulder and ship. You know, like if you have.

853
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 3: A bad shoulder, you don't belong in tennis.

854
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: There you go, Wow, so you to have the survival

855
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: of the fittest tennis or you have completely bio hacked

856
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: like the android g.

857
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: Because that's all about money again, like if you're rich,

858
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: you can afford the best.

859
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 3: So then nothing allowed.

860
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: Talking hyperbole, No, I think the thing that we need

861
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: to move I think we're going to finish this drug

862
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: conversation in saying how.

863
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: Are we going to finish it?

864
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: That there is absolutely no doubt that I think you're right,

865
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: Caitlin in the fact that there should be a spokesperson

866
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: that knows this insides and outsides of every single.

867
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: Ten add on that, And I also think that the

868
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 3: agency should work together because clearly.

869
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: I was getting I think we need to figure out tennis.

870
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: The hierarchy of tennis needs to figure out how the

871
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: fuck we need to get them all together, because it's

872
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: clear that they all hate each other and they all

873
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: think they're the best. So some somewhere along the line,

874
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: with the IOC and with the w T AN, A

875
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: t P and every other sporting you know, Federation, the

876
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: US soccer team or whatever, everyone needs to get under

877
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: the same umbrella and saying how, what is what the level,

878
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: what are the stipulations, and what's going to come out publicly?

879
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: They all need to be on the same page because

880
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: ruining a player's career is not okay in my opinion,

881
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: and but letting people get away with shit is not

882
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: okay as well. So everyone needs to be back more

883
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: on the on the on the same page, and Tennis

884
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: needs to have some kind of a commissioner that can

885
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: handle this better than they are, because right now it's

886
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: a fucking disgrace the way they're all getting handled all

887
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: these cases in so many ways, and I feel sorry

888
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: for the players that get done for not doing something nefarious.

889
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: And I feel sorry for the players, certainly the ones

890
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: that have had had a big band. I meant Jensen Brooksby,

891
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: we weren't going to really talk much more. But you

892
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: know he missed three tests. That's not great, that's not great.

893
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: You know I missed two one time. One was completely like,

894
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: oh my god, I forgot to change my whereabouts And

895
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: that can happen. The same thing happened to Emo, same

896
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: thing happened with him. So there has to be certain

897
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: things that we look at where we can do it better.

898
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: It's so hard, just so everyone knows, every single player

899
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: has to account for every single day and they have

900
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: to stipulate an hour of every single day where they are. Now,

901
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: you ask yourself, do your plans change sometimes? Do you

902
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: take a trip overnight that you didn't expect to take

903
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: and then you fucking forgot to change reform that happens.

904
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: So there are all kinds of things. There's it, I

905
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: a there's wada, there's nada, there's so many different things.

906
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: Something has to be done to make this better for everybody, everybody.

907
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: I will say one thing that I think tennis players

908
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: should not do is I know many of them who

909
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: let their agents change their whereabouts for them. And I

910
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 3: think that's the yeah that.

911
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: Was you can supposedly share a pover's issue.

912
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 3: That's the worst thing you can do because if you decide,

913
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 3: I mean just that take.

914
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: Sounds like it was a very monos issue, which is

915
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: if you let somebody else, whether it's the agent of

916
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: the coach handle your business, than that business and that's

917
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: also subject to fault.

918
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: And Caitlin that's also why she had a hard time

919
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: figuring out she didn't really know whereas Immediately Ego was like,

920
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: here's all of the stuff, here's my supplements here it

921
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: all test it now. And they were like, oh, it's

922
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: in your melatonin and she's like, oh okay, well he

923
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: is the rest of the batch of my melatonin and

924
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: they tested that and it's like, oh, it's all contented.

925
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: Actually, think in the era of consolidation, which I think

926
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: we all need to embrace, which I think is needs

927
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: to happen sooner rather than later, it can't be seven

928
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 2: governing bodies. It can't be three different doping agencies. It

929
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: can't be tours and players and stakeholders in term and

930
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 2: older all on opposite sides. Of things. I think there

931
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: needs to be good luck. A no, but good luck.

932
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 2: I mean, the things change overnight, like people can decide, okay,

933
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: we're going to majority own three quarters of the tennis ecosystem,

934
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden that forces consolidation. Right

935
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: like it happens in corporate America, it happens all over

936
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: the world. And I think a real players union that

937
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: was actually the players advocating on their own behalf would

938
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: be amazing to see, and this, to me, would be

939
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: one of the obvious things that they would want to

940
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: change and say, hey, listen, this is what we're currently doing,

941
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: this is what we want, this is actually what's going

942
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: to enable us to have a better experience as professional athletes.

943
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: It feels fair to everybody. And then if something happens,

944
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: the protocol has been approved by a majority of players

945
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: because their own union approved it and they know what

946
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: the rules are, and then they don't feel like this

947
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 2: person is getting away with something. That person is cheating

948
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: in some way that I can't quite pinpoint but I

949
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: feel strongly about. And the DEMA standards aren't.

950
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I say, the only problem with that is

951
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: that players don't read their emails. Because I remember when

952
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: they were complaining how all the top is trades during

953
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: COVID in Australia when there was a quarantine. Why do

954
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 3: they have a bicycle, why do they have a treadmill?

955
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 3: And we don't. We got an email where you could

956
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: send a request the things you need in your hotel

957
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 3: room for the time that you have to quarantine. They

958
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 3: did and they didn't read it and didn't request it,

959
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 3: and then they didn't have obviously, just the treadmill sitting

960
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: in the high Grant high to send to your room

961
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: when you got to So that's the same thing. Tennis

962
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 3: players are also dumb, like you can see with Chappova,

963
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: Love and Curios. They don't read the thing. They just

964
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: opine on the internet.

965
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, what.

966
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 3: Are you the society?

967
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: I don't understand why these guys. There's no doubt they

968
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: read a headline and then they just go, oh, one

969
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: month he wrote one month. What it's like, did you

970
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: even bother to look at it? Like what it said,

971
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: what the reasoning behind it was. I mean, I don't

972
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: understand these players that come out and do this publicly

973
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: on x and the social media saying this ship. It's

974
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: like what are you doing, like you know, you don't

975
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: want to wish it upon anyone you didn't be like,

976
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't happen to you, bro, because if

977
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: it happens to you, you know who's coming after you. Everyone.

978
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: I feel like, having been in the headlines for some

979
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: pretty bad reasons at the beginning of his career, has

980
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: benefited from an imagery rehabilitation. So he of our people

981
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: who actually should not be casting.

982
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: Anything, of all peoples, old people, most people do.

983
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: Not take out an umpire, granted by mistake.

984
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: Same with Nick Curios and the ship that he's done

985
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 1: on the court.

986
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: Come on, man, it's like, yeah, we could use spokespeople

987
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: who are you know, a little bit more last house,

988
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, throwing stones.

989
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: Throw Andrea pekovicin there. Yeah, me too, because she's commission

990
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: that's a commissioner.

991
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: No, yes, I'd be.

992
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: So good at it, you would.

993
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: Be, okay, So everyone out there, right to the WTN

994
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: a TP and tell them the commissioner of tennis or.

995
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 2: Just the people with all the money and they can

996
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: do it all.

997
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: Right, Let's get off the subject.

998
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: Let's talk about something pastis, Let's.

999
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: Talk about something positive. What a podcast is over.

1000
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five. You guys are going to be traveling

1001
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: down in Australia.

1002
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: Who's your PIXI Straight and Open? Now, Oh, I don't know.

1003
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to. I just have two players that

1004
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: are because I was not because I don't want to

1005
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: pick Austria and Open champions, because I have two players

1006
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: that I really look forward to the season twenty twenty five.

1007
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 3: And on the men's side, it's Ben Shelton. I think

1008
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 3: he will mature and I think he will be a

1009
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: real contender to take up favorites in major tournaments. And

1010
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: I'm excited because I think he's very talented. But this

1011
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: year I commented a lot of his matches in the

1012
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: beginning of the year and they drove me insane. I'm

1013
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 3: making a massive.

1014
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: Definitely not your type of player.

1015
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: No, because there was zero structures, zero brain, zero anything.

1016
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 3: But I felt like at the end of the.

1017
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: See you were all structure and too much brain.

1018
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly, So he was like he was driving

1019
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: me insane. But at the end of the season, I

1020
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: really think I saw a development. So that's why I'm

1021
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: very excited for his tennis.

1022
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: And I heard you talking about it on our podcast.

1023
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: Last week with the Davis Cup. What is it that

1024
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 2: you saw in his mindset? Did you see him constructing

1025
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: points more? It wasn't just a huge serve and then.

1026
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: What Yeah, So I think what he did really what

1027
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 3: made him really dangerous when he was playing well before

1028
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: he got a bit more structure in it is also

1029
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: what made him the dumbest player ever. Where he the

1030
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 3: moment it was tight, he would just go bigger. He

1031
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 3: would go like two serfs, one hundred and sixty miles

1032
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: per hour. He would play serve and valet or like

1033
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 3: chip and charge on the first serve and things like this.

1034
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: Because he has balls, it has to be said, he's crazy, huh,

1035
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: but in a great way. And if he can just

1036
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 3: get a bit more structure, those balls that he had

1037
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 3: will get him very far in tennis because unfortunately, you

1038
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 3: need that. And on the other hand, I'm very excited

1039
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 3: for Coco Gofs twenty twenty yeah season, because I really

1040
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 3: liked what I saw in the end of the year

1041
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 3: with the coaching change and the freaking grip change in

1042
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: the middle of the season on her surf, I was

1043
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 3: super impressed. She has massive balls too, so those that

1044
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 3: random that they are both American and I didn't plan

1045
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 3: on this because that's what America.

1046
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 2: Needs, is more success attention. Those are good answers I

1047
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: because I also like, I care less about who wins what,

1048
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: although in the time it's exciting because the matchup is

1049
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: exciting usually, but it's more like who am I looking

1050
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: forward to seeing play more? And Coco definitely is not

1051
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: somebody who I typically like all that much, just because

1052
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: I think she's a little more defensive and what I

1053
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: saw with her, especially as Renee noted, if she serves

1054
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: well at the finals, she can win it, and then

1055
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 2: she did. And the forehand, like, I like seeing her

1056
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: dictate to go along with the great seavents and the

1057
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: great movement she's so I like when players dimensions to

1058
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 2: their game, and she has certainly done that. And I'm

1059
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: also really excited to see what, like what does Danielle

1060
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 2: Collins have left?

1061
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: First?

1062
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I like the fact that she decided to

1063
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: retire after having spent most of the season talking about

1064
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: how she was going to retire to what end.

1065
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: I think why she didn't want to talk about it

1066
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: all the time, because remember they're like what is she

1067
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: won't want to talk about it? Maybe even the US

1068
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: Open where she didn't want to do the thing and

1069
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: she walked off the court. I think she already knew.

1070
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if something happened to the flip of switch, maybe

1071
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: she knows something we don't.

1072
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm happy.

1073
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: No tennis is better with her in it. I'm looking

1074
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 2: forward to seeing that and uh I cocoa for me, Yeah,

1075
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 2: same the men. I'm I'm kind of wondering what has

1076
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: happened to players that I like, who who didn't seem

1077
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 2: to have much of a year, Like I wonder if

1078
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: Seb Corda is for real or if he's going to

1079
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 2: kind of continue a downward slide. I thought this year

1080
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: was a step backwards, but I like his game.

1081
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: I think it was a step sideways. Coming back from injury.

1082
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: He still won a tournament. He had some good wins.

1083
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: I think Toronto.

1084
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: I don't think he took a backward step good.

1085
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear you say that because I really

1086
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: like his game. And also the two French guys for

1087
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: me are the ones to watch, like Pica.

1088
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: It's so fun you like say that, both of you,

1089
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: don't you.

1090
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 3: Becca Becca Boris Becker. He loves fist. He said he

1091
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 3: has his eyes on him in twenty twenty five.

1092
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what he'll do. My favorite Boris

1093
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: says it.

1094
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, he says his eyes are on and Ben Shelton too,

1095
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 3: but for him.

1096
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 2: I think both of the French guys for me, are

1097
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: the most exciting. Like I'm curious to see in late

1098
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: stages of slams with five honts how they hold up yeah,

1099
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: and how how they're shot making goes. I mean they're

1100
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 2: both exciting.

1101
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I agree on the Coco. It'll be

1102
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: interesting to see how now going out of indoors, because

1103
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: we know that playing indoors helps you, so if you're

1104
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: double folding indoors, you really have a major problem. So

1105
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: I want to see how she can handle that going

1106
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: into the outdoors with the sun, with elements, et cetera.

1107
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: Because I think if she can get a a more

1108
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: consistent kick serve, I think that will be huge and

1109
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: that will take perfect timing right now to work on that,

1110
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,479
Speaker 1: because that's all she needs to work on the serve.

1111
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: The first the forehand is getting better. I can see

1112
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: her that will be okay. Her biggest issue is the surf.

1113
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: If she's double folding, she's hurting herself beyond. So I

1114
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: think she's a real threat at this train open if

1115
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: that's under control. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing

1116
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: what the Rabaquina can do. Yeah, you know, look, we

1117
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: know that she had a very hard year this year

1118
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. There was a lot going on.

1119
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: Certainly there was something more than just injuries going on.

1120
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: There was a lot of other things that she was

1121
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: dealing with, whether it be her coach, whether it be

1122
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, her own issues. So I'm hoping that with Gorn,

1123
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 1: we're going to see this player come through next year

1124
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: because you and I can all of us can agree

1125
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: that when she is a robust she's arguably the best

1126
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: player in the world. I mean her serve, her backhand,

1127
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: her grounded like she is just she can get anyone

1128
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: off the court. She smoked Sabolenka at the start of

1129
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: the year this year in Brisbane and then you know,

1130
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: we know how dumb she was with that scheduling that

1131
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: she chose to go to Adelaide. That really threw her

1132
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: back because she had the achilles problem and there was

1133
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: a lot of unsuredness to her start to the year.

1134
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: Even though she played great at the start of the year.

1135
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to seeing how emotionally and physically

1136
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: she is in twenty twenty five because she's at at

1137
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: her best. Lookout because she could be the player with

1138
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: no points to defend, certainly not mid through the last

1139
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: part of this year. A lot of points the start,

1140
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: but not at the strain open she lost early to.

1141
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: So I really liked the way that she ended the year.

1142
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: I thought she was surprisingly given the rusts like came

1143
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 2: back and made her.

1144
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: Start Saba.

1145
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, she she got it out. I think some some.

1146
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she played well in the other matches.

1147
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: It was just she you know, and people don't like

1148
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 2: a step but well because she played and like, yeah,

1149
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: but she only missed a step as opposed to looking

1150
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 2: like she didn't belong there. And so for me, I

1151
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: was happy with how she ended, which I hope pretends

1152
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: well for the next year.

1153
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: I think that's who I'm excited about seeing. And also

1154
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: and she doesn't have the coach that she had last year,

1155
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: and so you know how I feel about that.

1156
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 3: Very excited about you.

1157
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: Oh, I love him too. Hope he's doing well. And

1158
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to seeing how much Taylor Fritz

1159
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: can just push that extra envelope of improving his net

1160
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: game and his forward momentum.

1161
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: Can he become the more famous Taylor in America?

1162
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: No, great question.

1163
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: I don't think that's possible. I think Swifties are going

1164
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: to not give him that mantle, But I will say

1165
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: that I just want to see. I think he got

1166
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: a taste for it this year. I think that he

1167
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: got very close to winning his first Grand Slam, and

1168
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: there's you know, I can I can say like when

1169
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: I made my first Grand Slam final, and I know

1170
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: it was only doubles, but it's still the same thing

1171
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this is the next big step. I

1172
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: think that once you're there, once you go okay. Same Jesspagoula,

1173
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: Let's see where she runs into in twenty twenty five,

1174
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: because it was a bit of an up and down year.

1175
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: I think that he got the taste for it. I know.

1176
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: I think he knows what he has to do to

1177
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 1: get to that next step, and it'll be interesting to

1178
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: see if he tries to implement it, because moving forward

1179
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: and being better at moving forward is going to help

1180
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: him and he needs that. And if he doesn't he's

1181
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 1: not gonna beat Alcoraz and he's not gonna beat Sinner

1182
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 1: when it comes down to it. And one of those guys,

1183
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: just like Roger and Rafa and Novak, they're always going

1184
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: to be there, right.

1185
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: I think that's probably the best possible scenario for him,

1186
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 2: which is he has.

1187
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: He has to improve.

1188
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: He has to.

1189
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, like there's a significant step up, and I.

1190
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: Think I don't think it's a significant step, but there

1191
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: is definitely a step.

1192
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 3: There is a big difference because I saw all his

1193
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 3: matches this year. I commented all his mattrees against Sinner,

1194
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 3: and he just lacks one dimension. Yeah, HiT's hard through

1195
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: the cord. He doesn't play angles, and he doesn't have

1196
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 3: a difference maker right now, and so he feels so

1197
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 3: much pressure on his surf to serve well. He goes

1198
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: for too close to the lines, he gets broken early,

1199
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 3: and he loses the set six four every single time.

1200
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: It was a lot of six four sets in that.

1201
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 3: Six four, six three six four. It's always.

1202
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: But I also think that's also the cool opportunity.

1203
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 3: I think so too, because he can add something and

1204
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: he has the spirit, he has the spirit of wanting

1205
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 3: to improve.

1206
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: That's why I think the most exciting time where he's

1207
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: right there and he can choose whether or not he

1208
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: wants to add and I think he does.

1209
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: I think he wants.

1210
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 6: He's a taste for it and he knows now what

1211
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 6: he has to do. Yeah, I mean we talked about

1212
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 6: it last time. He's the player that has convinced me

1213
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 6: the most this year. Like I was lukewarm on him

1214
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 6: and was red hot and burning it in a non

1215
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 6: creepy way.

1216
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: Well, somebody people had asked me on you know when

1217
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: I did I think good Morning America or something, and

1218
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: they said, who's the American that you feel like in

1219
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: win a Grand Slam? Because God knows what, We've been

1220
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: talking about it at nausea with the men. The women

1221
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: do it all the time. And I said Ben Shelton.

1222
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: And the reason I said Ben is because he has

1223
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: the game, he has the weapons, and he has the hootspa,

1224
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: the But I actually think Taylor in the last six

1225
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: months has proven to me that he has all of

1226
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: those attributes. It's just it's not so much the HUTSPA

1227
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: With Taylor maybe a little bit subconscious conscious mind need

1228
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: to come together. But for me, if he can just

1229
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: improve slightly his volleys. It will make all the difference

1230
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: because I feel like he's sitting six or seven great

1231
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: shots and he's not implementing the forward movement to finish

1232
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: those points. And against Alcoraz and against Sinner, as I've

1233
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: said many times now, he's not going to win those eight, nine, ten,

1234
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: twelve ball rallies against them under pressure.

1235
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 3: Well, with him, it's not the hutzpah, it's with him.

1236
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 3: He has the right amount of obsessiveness about tennis. I

1237
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 3: could see it because I interviewed him in lever A

1238
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 3: Cup and he's shy, he's not well spoken necessarily, but

1239
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 3: and that was so interesting. It was like a glimpse

1240
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 3: into his mind. Anytime I asked him anything about not tennis,

1241
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 3: he was kind of stuttering looking for words. But the

1242
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 3: moment I asked him something very strategically about tennis, he

1243
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: was so well spoken, so smart, so insightful that I

1244
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, this is what he thinks about the

1245
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 3: whole day, and that that's why he almost changes personality

1246
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 3: the moment he's outspoken he wants to talk about it.

1247
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: I have an interesting story there, because you know, he

1248
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: and I have talked back and forth sometimes on like

1249
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: Instagram and various things. And I did mention to him,

1250
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always just I'm always sort of pushing

1251
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: him to go forward, you know, with these volleys and things.

1252
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: And then I remember, I think I saw him. I

1253
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: saw him in Cincinnati after they lost the doubles final

1254
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: for the gold medal, him and Tommy Paul against the

1255
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: Ossie guys who clearly can volley very well. And I

1256
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: said something along the lines of about volleying or about whatever,

1257
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: and he said, who needs to volley and doubles? I mean,

1258
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: we just we just want to silver medal or something.

1259
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: But the way he said it made me realize. I

1260
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you just don't value volleys. You actually

1261
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: don't value that part of tennis. In stipulating while I

1262
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: beat these doubles guys, not even being at the net

1263
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: on the baseline and doubles, I'm like, first of all,

1264
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: you're playing on clay. Second of all, you didn't win

1265
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: the gold And the reason you didn't is because they

1266
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: probably picked on you at the net. Because any good

1267
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: doubles team is going to be like, dude, I'm going

1268
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: right at him at the net. Just be ready for

1269
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: a shitty volley. And then finish it because I don't

1270
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: because I've played against people just like him, you know,

1271
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: but on the women's side. So it's like, I think

1272
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: that he needs to understand that. Yeah, you might not

1273
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: need volleys to win all matches, but I'm telling you

1274
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: right now you need them if you want to win

1275
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: a Slam. And I hope he proves me wrong. I

1276
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: hope he wins a Grand Slam playing from the back

1277
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: of the court and never needing to hit a volley

1278
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: under pressure.

1279
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: I don't I want to see him at the net.

1280
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, me too, But I'm just saying, what.

1281
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 3: If you win your stern up and that would be fun.

1282
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: If he could move forward, change his grip on his

1283
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:37,919
Speaker 1: floor in volley.

1284
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 3: I will throw in two more bonus names into the head.

1285
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: Bonus name Jack Draper, Jack Draper.

1286
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: Mir Andreva and Mi Andre's my other one.

1287
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: By her side off season, have time to work on

1288
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 3: her game.

1289
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 2: She's got so much games, so much.

1290
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 3: She's got more experience.

1291
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: Now this year she's got it all.

1292
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it will be interesting. I think

1293
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 3: French Open she will have to defend points for the

1294
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 3: first time, so she will get she will grow into

1295
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 3: herself as an adults woman even though she's so young,

1296
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 3: but with the experience she's had.

1297
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: I liked seeing her emotional reaction in losing that final

1298
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: to Casecina to Kazakina, because I felt like she was

1299
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 2: ready to be there, yes, and it didn't feel like

1300
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: she was. It was a young person's reaction, but a

1301
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: young person who I think feels, yeah, who wants it?

1302
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 2: And I saw that as a and it was a

1303
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: lovely moment because how can I give her a hug?

1304
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: And it was nice and can Sheta you know, everybody

1305
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: loves her. But I also made me think like, oh,

1306
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: she's ready to kind of take it a little bit.

1307
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: And I think, because she's so young but already has

1308
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 2: all the game, like yeah, she's gonna be Really was.

1309
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: My other one outside of that's a good Jolkina was

1310
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: Andrea to see where the next improvement comes in the

1311
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: next twelve months, because I think she's going to be

1312
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: a perennial top ten and how because everything she does

1313
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: is very solid? Everything she does.

1314
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 2: Can I just implore on the Jack Draper note and

1315
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 2: Visa VI the tailor's I think Jack Draper, I want

1316
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: to see him play tennis and rock really good fits.

1317
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: But also somebody here needs to have a legitimate celebrity girlfriend.

1318
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 2: And I think it's Jack Taper.

1319
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 3: Who is the celebrity girl friend.

1320
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1321
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: I think he needs like a dua lipa or he

1322
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,919
Speaker 2: needs fun, he needs like a he needs somebody seeing

1323
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: how that just came out of your I mean your mouth,

1324
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 2: random example. But I think he needs like a glamorous

1325
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: I want a real celebrity in the player's box again, you.

1326
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, like a Brookshield spec that like.

1327
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 2: I want Zindia in the way she looks so great at.

1328
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 4: You want her?

1329
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: And whose bucks do you want her?

1330
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 2: Jack Draper?

1331
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: Oh, Jack Draper.

1332
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 2: She likes British guys. Oh, she's got Tom Holland who

1333
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,480
Speaker 2: seems very nice. No, no slight to him. I want

1334
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: some I want some star power.

1335
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we're putting that out there.

1336
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: Well, yes, actually this is something I would like to

1337
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: crowd source people who listen to the show. It seems

1338
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 2: like you're actually finding us on Blue Sky, maybe more

1339
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: than you're finding us on Oh yes, it seems like

1340
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: maybe the place to find us. Anyway, Please nominate who

1341
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: you would like good it see in a player's box.

1342
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be Jack Draper's any player's box,

1343
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: any gender, any any player, any type of star. But

1344
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: just you know, who would you like to look at

1345
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: when the cameras.

1346
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: Pan Adam and Adam Driver and Jack Draper and a

1347
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 3: gay relationships that broke back? Okay, okay, broke him back Mountain.

1348
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: Feel me, I think we have to end. Honestly, I'll

1349
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: bring you two together.

1350
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 2: And this is so we broke back, broke back, broke back.

1351
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: He broke him back, he broke him back. Thanks everybody, anyway.

1352
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going to get into maybe next week

1353
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: talking about our favorites for the austral And Open and

1354
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: the season eating up to it and all that sort

1355
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. But in the meantime, I hope you enjoyed

1356
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: our Broke Back Mountain edition of Drugs in Tennis.

1357
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 2: Drugs and tennis do them, don't just don't.

1358
01:01:55,640 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: Get don't get Cain drug And now that I've this

1359
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: Petko is gonna want my melotone and then I have

1360
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: downstairs Liquid. It's always a good one. All right bye, everyone,

1361
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.

1362
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:06,439
Speaker 3: Next week.

1363
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: Jeez, m hm hm

1364
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 3: Hmmmmm