Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and Best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel Cast. Hello, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name
Speaker 1: is Caitlin Darante, and this is our podcast in which
Speaker 1: it's really long and it really seems like it's heading somewhere,
Speaker 1: and then at the last second we tell you we're British.
Speaker 1: O we it's go don of thieves heads will know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. Are there don of thieves heads
Speaker 1: out there? I have to you know, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of dad's out there. The But this is this
Speaker 1: is our podcast about movies. It is we take an
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist approach to analyzing movies, using the Bechdel Test
Speaker 1: as a jumping off point, which, of course is a
Speaker 1: media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our version of this test is
Speaker 1: as follows. Uh, two people of a marginalized gender have
Speaker 1: to have names, and they have to speak to each
Speaker 1: other about something other than a man or at least
Speaker 1: two lines. There is there is a next. I think
Speaker 1: we just added a caveat though, because if it is yes,
Speaker 1: Um Jackson and suddenly having a British accent, it does
Speaker 1: automatically pass the Bechdel tests. There is correct, There are
Speaker 1: of course, you know, it's a complicated, ongoing conversation about
Speaker 1: it's always it's always evolving. It's yeah, it's always evolving,
Speaker 1: it's always growing. Um. There's there's a lot of caveats
Speaker 1: that we keep including, and that is yes. That is
Speaker 1: a very important one. I think you'll agree. I agree, Um.
Speaker 1: But today we are going to do something a little
Speaker 1: different than we normally do, UM, because we have an
Speaker 1: incredible guest, Um that we want to talk about her
Speaker 1: most recent work before we kind of get into today's movie,
Speaker 1: which is den of Thieves, Um, which is the longest
Speaker 1: movie in the entire world. Even though it's not the
Speaker 1: longest movie I've ever seen, it felt so long and
Speaker 1: it is in like I don't I'm like it is.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a copaganda Ganda trend for the
Speaker 1: whole movie to appear like CPI a tone for reasons
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, yeah, certain subgenres of copaganda do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a thing. But but first we we really wanted
Speaker 1: to spotlight our guests where she's really amazing. So let's
Speaker 1: let's get her in here. Yes, let's do it. She
Speaker 1: is a freelance reporter. She is UH covering, has covered
Speaker 1: currently being released a story in knock l a entitled
Speaker 1: A Tradition of Violence the History of Deputy Gangs in
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. It's series Castle Welcome, Hi, welcome,
Speaker 1: than so much for having me. Of course you being here,
Speaker 1: We're yeah, we're super excited to talk to you about UM,
Speaker 1: about your your work and this. It's going to be
Speaker 1: thirteen parts, is that correct? Yeah, so that was our
Speaker 1: original plan. Um. This week, UM, a bunch of information
Speaker 1: was released about the band Too's gang on Monday. There
Speaker 1: was some additional names attached to a lawsuit that was
Speaker 1: brought by a deputy against UM the Bandito's Gang at
Speaker 1: the East Los Angeles station. So that's sort of adding
Speaker 1: to my plate. So that series might get a little
Speaker 1: bit longer, just surpending on UM, you know what happens.
Speaker 1: But as of now, Gas thirteen parts incredible. I mean,
Speaker 1: as of as of this recording, five parts are out
Speaker 1: and it's I mean, it's so well reported. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for for doing it. I know how much
Speaker 1: you know labor had to have gone into it, and
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that our listeners UM sort
Speaker 1: of have a baseline of knowledge of of what the
Speaker 1: series is UM about. So could you tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about, UM how you know, how you went
Speaker 1: about reporting this and UM kind of what the what
Speaker 1: the arc of of what you're talking about in this
Speaker 1: series is. Yeah. So I this started when I received
Speaker 1: a list of litigation that the County of Los Angeles
Speaker 1: keeps track of of cases that were brought where deputies
Speaker 1: were alleged to be involved in deputy gangs. And from
Speaker 1: that case, it's about sixty different cases totaling about fifty
Speaker 1: five million dollar ers in settlements. UM I just started
Speaker 1: looking into the different deputies that were involved in those cases,
Speaker 1: and it turned out that they had been involved in
Speaker 1: other shootings and other beatings and all other kinds of
Speaker 1: UM crime. And from there, UM I started putting things
Speaker 1: together and was able to UM sort of figure out
Speaker 1: the history of deputy gangs in Los Angeles County. UM.
Speaker 1: They've been in existence since at least the early nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: and over that time they have cost tax payers UM
Speaker 1: at least a hundred million dollars in settlement money UM
Speaker 1: from people that they have killed or beaten or otherwise
Speaker 1: UM physically harmed. UM. The deputy gangs have a lot
Speaker 1: of influence UM. They generally are UM. Their members are
Speaker 1: in positions of power at different stations throughout the department,
Speaker 1: so they can UM in charge of things like scheduling, UM,
Speaker 1: who gets promoted, who UM goes out to, what call when?
Speaker 1: Who gets back up, who doesn't UM. They essentially run
Speaker 1: the department. UM. We know of about eighteen different gangs
Speaker 1: UM that are present throughout the department. UM. There's probably
Speaker 1: more that we don't know about UM, but we have
Speaker 1: been able to come up with solid reporting on eighteen
Speaker 1: different gangs, and we are releasing what we found in
Speaker 1: this series that will be running through the end of
Speaker 1: the month. It's I mean, it's so incredibly well reported
Speaker 1: in the way that you're you're kind of laying it
Speaker 1: out historically of how far things go back, and it
Speaker 1: quickly becomes a very depressing UM. You know, what is
Speaker 1: like the corkboard with five hundred strings attached. UM, because
Speaker 1: there is I mean it, there's so much overlap in
Speaker 1: the and you continue to see people who have murdered
Speaker 1: people being promoted and UM that your piece room today
Speaker 1: that I thought was fascinating and very bleak, was that internally,
Speaker 1: any whistleblower who even attempted to um, to speak out
Speaker 1: against something like that internally would be it seems like
Speaker 1: consistently punished and never promoted. All right, So I go ahead, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I was just gonna say that's the case
Speaker 1: for most of the whistleblowers. I mean, there were some
Speaker 1: cases that you know, I know about that unfortunately I
Speaker 1: wasn't even able to report on because they're under protective seal.
Speaker 1: That's UM an interesting element for a lot of these cases,
Speaker 1: you know, because a lot so many of them are settled.
Speaker 1: Nine times out of ten they settle, a lot of
Speaker 1: this information remains secret when it doesn't go to trial,
Speaker 1: that stuff remains sealed, whereas when it does go to trial,
Speaker 1: it becomes public record. So a lot of these whistleblowers,
Speaker 1: when they settled, the Department had them sign agreements that
Speaker 1: they cannot speak about the terms of their settlement, their case, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, what their agreement was, etcetera. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot more dirt there that unfortunately, it's it's very difficult
Speaker 1: to find out about. That's like, and the fact that
Speaker 1: you you have been able to report so much based
Speaker 1: on what is available, which sounds like a fraction of
Speaker 1: what actually has happened, speaks uh a lot. I'm curious
Speaker 1: about the process of UM reporting this story UM, and
Speaker 1: I feel like that it will be interesting to our
Speaker 1: listeners as well. I mean, I think you're you're sort
Speaker 1: of just referencing it. But what were the sort of
Speaker 1: UM roadblocks you were coming up against in the process
Speaker 1: of reporting this story over the past is it six months? Yeah? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think probably the first UM roadblock UM one that
Speaker 1: I was quickly able to get over thanks to the
Speaker 1: help of knock l A is just the cost of
Speaker 1: this stuff. I mean, all this stuff is public record,
Speaker 1: but you still have to pay for it, and that
Speaker 1: quickly adds up. UM. Just reporting this piece cost about
Speaker 1: three thousand dollars alone. UM. Yeah, and there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot more that I want to continue to do, so
Speaker 1: it will cost more money. But I think you know,
Speaker 1: that's one thing that people don't really think about, is
Speaker 1: you know, just like the access to this stuff. It's
Speaker 1: it's very hard to get, Like for me a journalist,
Speaker 1: like not to just like think how hard it might
Speaker 1: be to a family that's trying to you know, navigate
Speaker 1: the system and you know, get some kind of justice
Speaker 1: for their loved one. Another roadblock that I ran up
Speaker 1: against is just UM. You know, these files have a
Speaker 1: habit of strangely disappearing UM. Even though these records are
Speaker 1: supposed to be kept UM, several of them had been
Speaker 1: destroyed when I went down to pick them up UM,
Speaker 1: and I never really got a full explanation of that. UM.
Speaker 1: The clerks that it had been a mistake or UM
Speaker 1: some unusual occurrence. I believe it was the term that
Speaker 1: he used. But there were several files that UM had
Speaker 1: been destroyed or they just couldn't locate that they were
Speaker 1: supposed to be in the courthouse, and when I went
Speaker 1: down there, the clerk just couldn't find them. UM. There
Speaker 1: have also I've also had UM just like crazy sort
Speaker 1: of scenarios happened when I've tried to pick things up,
Speaker 1: Like I was trying to pick up something that was
Speaker 1: on micro film, and the the person working told me
Speaker 1: that the water main in the basement of the courthouse
Speaker 1: had broken and destroyed all the micro film and I
Speaker 1: would have to write a letter to the county UM
Speaker 1: explaining why I needed it, and then the county would
Speaker 1: decide whether or not to grant my request. UM. And
Speaker 1: that's something that I'm still dealing with. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: can be. It can be really crazy trying to just
Speaker 1: like deal with it's you know, getting your hands on
Speaker 1: public records. There's always some like random obstacle that will
Speaker 1: pop up in your way, and it's not always clear
Speaker 1: why that's happening. Yeah, it's always, I mean, it is always.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't feel like it should be legal to
Speaker 1: charge such high rates to access what are I mean?
Speaker 1: Then it's almost like, well I hesitate to even call
Speaker 1: it public records if they're if they're not available um
Speaker 1: to anybody. And introducing that cost barrier is such a
Speaker 1: huge thing, and it sounds like, um, you know, based
Speaker 1: on what you're just describing that it's a full time job,
Speaker 1: like getting your hands on on these records. And it's
Speaker 1: of course especially with UM with families and friends of
Speaker 1: people who have been victimized by the police. They like,
Speaker 1: not everyone has that time, you know, it's like everyone
Speaker 1: has a live their lives, and that's UM so frustrating.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that you were able to, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of get as much as as you did, but
Speaker 1: it sounds incredibly frustrating and complicated. UM oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: You have to like make appointments to go down there. Um.
Speaker 1: Everything is time limited because of COVID protocols UM, which
Speaker 1: adds a whole other layers. Sometimes if your record is
Speaker 1: UM past a certain year, UM, they just won't give
Speaker 1: it to you. UM. And that's something that I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with right now. There are some records that I wanted
Speaker 1: that they're past a certain cutoff date, and because that
Speaker 1: they're in a room that is reserved for old records,
Speaker 1: I've been told that they're just not going into that
Speaker 1: room because of coronavirus and there is no end date
Speaker 1: to COVID, So they're telling me that there's theoretically no
Speaker 1: date that they'll be going into that room, which is illegal. UM.
Speaker 1: But you know, like I said, you get all kinds
Speaker 1: of crazy things when you're when you're trying to navigate that. Yeah. Especially,
Speaker 1: it's like I don't even understand that argument of like, oh,
Speaker 1: coronavirus is lurking in that no one goes into like
Speaker 1: it doesn't make it sounds like an excuse. It sounds
Speaker 1: like a lot of these quote public records are like
Speaker 1: public with a lot of caveats. Yeah. Um, to get
Speaker 1: into a little more, I I really um appreciated how
Speaker 1: at the beginning of and we're gonna link um that
Speaker 1: all the pieces for um, if you're listening the it
Speaker 1: will be linked in the description of this episode. But um,
Speaker 1: you open each um section by listing what the legal
Speaker 1: definition of a gang is, and then um, each installment
Speaker 1: sort of um, you know, unpacks another element or incident
Speaker 1: um that the L A s. D. Gangs have committed.
Speaker 1: Uh So I wanted to just read that definition because
Speaker 1: I know that particularly it seems like older people sometimes
Speaker 1: have difficulty wrapping their head around gangs within the police
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, how how how could that be?
Speaker 1: And you lay it out at the beginning and of
Speaker 1: every single piece. Um, so it's oh my gosh, it's
Speaker 1: under section one six point to two of the California
Speaker 1: Penal Code. UM, a criminal gang is described as any
Speaker 1: organization or group of three or more people that one
Speaker 1: has a common name or identifying sign or symbol, two
Speaker 1: has as one of its primary activities the commission of
Speaker 1: one of the long list of California criminal offenses, and
Speaker 1: three whose members have engaged in a pattern of criminal
Speaker 1: gang activity, either alone or together. And so, of course
Speaker 1: the sheriff's gangs you're reporting on very much, uh fit
Speaker 1: that description. So I wanted to ask, just for our
Speaker 1: listeners who aren't really aware, what are the kind of
Speaker 1: through lines of activities it happened with in these gangs
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, just kind of common patterns that you
Speaker 1: identified throughout the reporting process. Yeah. The the one, you know,
Speaker 1: commission of crime that we've seen in you know, almost
Speaker 1: every gang that we've covered is of course murder. Um. No,
Speaker 1: we've also seen extortion of other deputies in the station. Um.
Speaker 1: They'll hold these what they call fund raisers where it's
Speaker 1: unclear where the money is exactly going, and they'll pressure
Speaker 1: their colleagues into giving them money. UM. Paul Tanaka actually
Speaker 1: UM had this special cigar smoking club at the Sheriff's
Speaker 1: headquarters and you could get in if you gave them
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. Um, that's a big one. They regularly
Speaker 1: beat people up. Um, I've heard accounts of rape. UM.
Speaker 1: So I mean, like it's really anything mhm. It's in
Speaker 1: particularly in the I think it's the third piece Lynwood's
Speaker 1: Worst Nightmare that details the crimes of the Vikings Gang
Speaker 1: is you know, have heavy content warning, but was just
Speaker 1: so completely eye opening for me that those were crimes
Speaker 1: that I had never heard about before, and it seems
Speaker 1: like it was just they were absolutely rampaging and targeting
Speaker 1: you know, black and brown people in Lyndwood NonStop for
Speaker 1: for weeks and months. Yeah. Yeah, that the Lynwood stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean that that went on for years. And one
Speaker 1: thing that really um makes me really upset is just
Speaker 1: hearing about, um, hearing from some of the deputies that
Speaker 1: participated in this stuff. Um. You know, one guy that
Speaker 1: I wrote about in in that piece was Cliff Yates,
Speaker 1: who went on to be involved in the beating death
Speaker 1: of a man at Men's Central Jail about twelve years ago,
Speaker 1: almost to the day. That man's name was John Horton
Speaker 1: UM and Cliff Yates, UM. You know, he went on
Speaker 1: to have he was promoted within the department. Um, he
Speaker 1: retired and receives a six figure pension. UM. He lives
Speaker 1: in Florida, and as far as I know, he was
Speaker 1: never really disciplined UM for any of the incidents that
Speaker 1: I'm that I know that he was involved in. UM.
Speaker 1: He's written a book where he details his career as
Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer over the past thirty years. UM.
Speaker 1: He describes police work as hunting for humans UM. And
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm very frightened really by how someone
Speaker 1: can view UM their work in a in a way
Speaker 1: like that, Like how they can look at the terror
Speaker 1: that they inflicted on a community and such a in
Speaker 1: such a distorted light. It really frightens me. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's in the I don't know, it's just the normalization
Speaker 1: of that attitude. It's like, I don't know, something that
Speaker 1: you you know, but then just just hearing it come
Speaker 1: out of someone's mouth, and to know that they're being
Speaker 1: they're absurdly wealthy, you know, and then they're like still
Speaker 1: living on the taxpayers dime after not being held to
Speaker 1: account for murder, and and now they're you know, living
Speaker 1: in a mansion in Florida. Whatever it is that UM
Speaker 1: that they're doing. Yeah, I I Um, that piece in particular,
Speaker 1: really was I mean, it's disturbing like that, the way
Speaker 1: in the in the way that it's laid out. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess another question that I had, were there any
Speaker 1: I guess in the process of reporting this, Were there
Speaker 1: any moments where you truly like, were there is there
Speaker 1: like one moment that kind of sticks out when interview
Speaker 1: just um, yeah, because I know it was such a
Speaker 1: long process. Um. God, I would say probably there are
Speaker 1: several moments that stick out, And I would say the
Speaker 1: ones that really stick with me are when I contact
Speaker 1: a family to tell them that the person that killed
Speaker 1: their loved one killed somebody else. Um. And that really sucks. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's probably like what sticks with me the most,
Speaker 1: just being that like bearer of bad news um, and
Speaker 1: just like having to tell them that, you know, like
Speaker 1: your case didn't really make a difference. Um, nothing changed,
Speaker 1: This person was promoted, this person is still on the
Speaker 1: streets like doing the same ship that he did to
Speaker 1: your family. UM. And that just like really brings the
Speaker 1: story home to me. I mean that's like, you know
Speaker 1: why I did it. I Mean, this stuff has been
Speaker 1: going on for years. I've been hearing about gangs in
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's apartment since I was a kid. Um, So
Speaker 1: you know, I hope that by talking about it and
Speaker 1: bringing more attention to this, we can hopefully see some
Speaker 1: changes in the structure. Absolutely, I mean I I sincerely
Speaker 1: hope that this series ends up having a demonstrable effect
Speaker 1: because there's there's just just so so much. It's overwhelming.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I'm I'm And that sounds incredibly emotionally taxing
Speaker 1: for for everyone. I mean yeah, for for for you
Speaker 1: and for the families, and it's just absolutely brutal. But
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that Um it's you know, there's been
Speaker 1: light shed on it, um, and so I guess, uh
Speaker 1: to to kind of close out unless there's stuff we
Speaker 1: haven't touched on that you would like to Um, what
Speaker 1: do you you know? But by the time this series
Speaker 1: has concluded, what do you hope, um, people take away
Speaker 1: from it or what effect do you hope that that
Speaker 1: the series has? Ah? Well, I mean, I'd love everyone
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County who have read the series. I
Speaker 1: don't know how realistic that is, but that that would
Speaker 1: be my dream. I would love everyone in l A
Speaker 1: County just to be aware of what's happening in the
Speaker 1: department these you know, I think I really think this
Speaker 1: has been able to be an open secret for the
Speaker 1: past fifty years, and I think we really knew people
Speaker 1: actively engaged and talking about it. UM. That would be
Speaker 1: my primary goal. I'd love to I'd love to see
Speaker 1: the Board of Supervisors UM call me in to talk
Speaker 1: about my reporting. And you know, I'd love to help
Speaker 1: them with an investigation. I'd love to assess, like any
Speaker 1: anyone with an investigation, I'm happy to turn over what
Speaker 1: I know. UM, That's what I'd love to see. UM.
Speaker 1: I think at the very minimum, there needs to be
Speaker 1: an audit of the department. UM. At the minimum. And
Speaker 1: there are people that have been in this space for
Speaker 1: a lot longer than I have that have come up
Speaker 1: with some great solutions. UM that you know, if people
Speaker 1: are so inclined to engage with that, like, I'd really
Speaker 1: recommend checking them out, like to check the Shaff Coalition
Speaker 1: for example. UM. Yeah, I'd love to see more people
Speaker 1: tapped in with them. UM. That's what I'd love to see. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I would recommend. I mean, even if you live
Speaker 1: outside of l A County, it's the lessons and that
Speaker 1: you and and what you can take away from having
Speaker 1: read this series is applicable to anyone. UM, you know,
Speaker 1: living in a place with the Sheriff's Department like the
Speaker 1: l A s D is egregiously bad. But it's not
Speaker 1: like you know, these crimes are beholden to l A
Speaker 1: like that. It's it's widely applicable reporting that everyone should
Speaker 1: definitely UM check out. And and I do think it's
Speaker 1: UM it's great that not l A was able to
Speaker 1: help fund and publish it as well, because it seems
Speaker 1: like the kind of report that you know, it could
Speaker 1: only be done at an independent news source where it
Speaker 1: seems like there's always so many UM blockages when you
Speaker 1: when you're working with a huge mainstream source, which I
Speaker 1: know you have. UM, I just think that they don't
Speaker 1: want to do it to be perfect really honest with
Speaker 1: you speak to that. I'm so curious, UM what your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that are, because I know you've worked on
Speaker 1: kind of both both sides of that line. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: just to be candid, I mean, this information has been
Speaker 1: out there for the past fifty years. Major institutions have
Speaker 1: had the funding UM to go after this information. They've
Speaker 1: had the access to the information. UM. The reason that
Speaker 1: they didn't do it, and from where I'm standing is
Speaker 1: it just wasn't an interest. This affects black and brown people,
Speaker 1: This affects low income people, and those aren't communities that
Speaker 1: newspapers have seen or not just newspapers, but that major
Speaker 1: media outlets have not viewed as a priority. UM really ever,
Speaker 1: So that's why it didn't get done. It's the same
Speaker 1: reason that the Grim Sleeper UM, a serial killer in
Speaker 1: South Los Angeles was able to terrorize the community for
Speaker 1: almost forty years and kill with impunity that never really
Speaker 1: got any news coverage. It's the same reason why deputy
Speaker 1: gangs in those same neighborhoods don't get any news coverage. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thank you, thank you for your insight on that too,
Speaker 1: because it's UM. It's also it's shocking just reading through
Speaker 1: your reporting, how you know like it it would have
Speaker 1: taken reporting and funding, but like you say, it has
Speaker 1: it's not like there's ever been any shortage of available
Speaker 1: funds to do that. It's the willingness and UM prioritizing
Speaker 1: uh black and brown people in reporting, which just doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to ever happen in mainstream reporting. Um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: is there is there anything else you want to hit
Speaker 1: on before we kind of start transitioning into den of
Speaker 1: thieves stuff. Yeah, I would just say, um, you know,
Speaker 1: please check out the series, and you know, we've talked
Speaker 1: about how expensive this is. If you're so inclined, like,
Speaker 1: please send a dollar to to the knock Patreon. I'd
Speaker 1: love to continue doing this research and you know, any
Speaker 1: help I can get as much appreciated. Absolutely, and I
Speaker 1: guess I should full disclosure and say that I right
Speaker 1: there as well. I was like, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the right point in the episode to put it is,
Speaker 1: but it's now. Um yeah, thank you, yeah, thank you
Speaker 1: again for doing this reporting and putting in all of
Speaker 1: this time and effort to shed light on this thing
Speaker 1: that I'll admit I really didn't know anything about until
Speaker 1: I started reading Your Peace. I knew about, you know,
Speaker 1: corruption and racism and violence inflicted on different communities by
Speaker 1: law enforcement, but I didn't know the extent to which
Speaker 1: they were like things you could, like you can classify
Speaker 1: as gangs operating in the sheriff's department. So I was
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, well, I mean it makes sense,
Speaker 1: but but I just didn't know anything about it. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you again for for doing this reporting and shedding
Speaker 1: light on this. Yeah, it's my pleasure so to kind
Speaker 1: of transition into what into like getting us to den
Speaker 1: of thieves stuff, because there's so much to talk about their. UM.
Speaker 1: We really want to talk with you about how cops
Speaker 1: are presented to us in media. It's something we've talked
Speaker 1: about in this on the show before, but I don't
Speaker 1: think extremely in depth. UM. And Yeah, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: just kind of curious of your um, your opinion on
Speaker 1: how particularly movies for our purposes, but how media UM
Speaker 1: has very deliberately shaped what our view of cops and
Speaker 1: and in this case specifically UM, the Sheriff's Department has
Speaker 1: been over the years. Yeah, I've been watching a lot
Speaker 1: of cop um media UM while reporting this piece. UM,
Speaker 1: I've just really been living with it. My favorite Hell,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I don't know. I've really
Speaker 1: like solidly in like corrupt cop world. My favorite show
Speaker 1: right now is The Shield, which is UM a whole
Speaker 1: other thing. UM. But yeah, I one thing that really
Speaker 1: fascinates me about how cops are presented and all of
Speaker 1: these cases is that they're Um, they're always sort of
Speaker 1: given this um personality of like the the hard charging,
Speaker 1: like badass rule breaker. Um, they're never like we never
Speaker 1: hear a story about a quote unquote like good cop
Speaker 1: who like does every thing by the book. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: has like a good relationship with their community. It's always
Speaker 1: these like assholes that are shooting everybody and like that's
Speaker 1: accepted as really cool in the world that they live in.
Speaker 1: It's so and it's like even there's a moment in
Speaker 1: then of Thieves that I will get to where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if if a cop is like doing something by the book,
Speaker 1: like everyone just calls him a dork and they like
Speaker 1: call him a loser and make fun of his shoes
Speaker 1: and then continue to uh break the law, it's yeah wild. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The framing of a lot of like just movies and
Speaker 1: media about cops is yeah, you're totally right. It's like
Speaker 1: these you know, I don't play by the ruse kind
Speaker 1: of cowboys that they're they're but they're still framed is
Speaker 1: like the heroes who do this competent police work and
Speaker 1: who saved the day and who catch the quote bad
Speaker 1: guys and you know, just like all the framing of this,
Speaker 1: um which it is like straight up propaganda this you
Speaker 1: know this, And I didn't even again I'll admit that,
Speaker 1: like I didn't. I fell for it for so long,
Speaker 1: and um, it's just like oh God. And then and
Speaker 1: then of Thieves, I mean, we'll get into it, but
Speaker 1: it's it's doing a lot of the same stuff that
Speaker 1: we've seen before, except it's five hours long and like
Speaker 1: so absurdly, I who and then he's British at the end,
Speaker 1: and then and then I feel like we all really
Speaker 1: learned something. Um, well, should we take a quick break
Speaker 1: and then come back and get into the movie? All right,
Speaker 1: we'll be back in a moment, and we're back. We're back.
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I I donna Thieves. Is I mean
Speaker 1: ripe for discussion of how cops and how specifically the
Speaker 1: L A s D is portrayed in mediate series. You
Speaker 1: probably you definitely know way way more about this than
Speaker 1: we do. Is this, does the L A s D
Speaker 1: is are they? Like? I know, the L A p
Speaker 1: D comes up in movies and media constantly, but does
Speaker 1: the l S l A s D come up very
Speaker 1: much in in media that you know of? Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: actually started compiling a list of m l A law
Speaker 1: enforcement in media as far as l A s D
Speaker 1: to my knowledge, Um, they have a documentary about them
Speaker 1: called l A County seven that was produced for TV
Speaker 1: I believe in the late eighties or early nineties. Den
Speaker 1: of Thieves of course. Um. And there's a recent movie
Speaker 1: out with Jared Leto and Denzel Washington called The Little Things,
Speaker 1: which and Robbie Malick, and that's about the Los Angeles
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's apartment as well. Is there anything you've seen
Speaker 1: that you feel like? I haven't seen The Little Things,
Speaker 1: Um yet I forgot that it came out, honestly, but
Speaker 1: like it is. Are there any portrayals of the l
Speaker 1: A s D that you think have been appropriately critical
Speaker 1: that has come out or is it mostly kind of
Speaker 1: like badass cop stuff? Um? I've never seen anything critical
Speaker 1: of law enforcement in a movie or television show. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like to say that this shield is satire. Um,
Speaker 1: But my girlfriend just sort of rolls her eyes at
Speaker 1: me and walks away when I bring that conversations at
Speaker 1: the table the Galaxy brain take, Yeah, I was thinking
Speaker 1: of I was going through just kind of like the
Speaker 1: list of episodes we've done that I was like, oh there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the protagonists of this movie is like a night Like
Speaker 1: even movies like fucking Fargo. You're like, oh no, I've
Speaker 1: I've been duped into thinking that, like, well cop is
Speaker 1: a woman now, so it's all all good. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah. The media around a sheriff's department, not the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles one but that. But that I've been most
Speaker 1: exposed to has been Reno on One, which is a
Speaker 1: show that I do love and think is very funny,
Speaker 1: but it's like one of the things that duped me
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this show about these sheriffs, they're
Speaker 1: all such lovable goofs t he and uh that's probably
Speaker 1: not how they actually are in real life. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: it's it's it is over like it's genuinely overwhelming of
Speaker 1: how much copaganda there is and how many genres it spans,
Speaker 1: because like you're saying, Caitlin, like, there's cop comedies, and
Speaker 1: there's like you know, there's kind of the the Den
Speaker 1: of Thieves genre of like Sepia toned intense glorification of
Speaker 1: being a horrible cop, and then there's like the procedurals.
Speaker 1: There's just there's it's so pervasive that it's I don't know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got um. I became overwhelmed by it. And then
Speaker 1: there's literally the show Cops, which is like every um my,
Speaker 1: my uncle's love it so much and it is so
Speaker 1: harmful and scary. Um. But yeah, so today we're we're
Speaker 1: kind of zoning in. Um um. I guess this is
Speaker 1: like more of what I think of automatically when I
Speaker 1: think of copaganda, is like the den of thieves, vibe
Speaker 1: of the badass cop who he can't leave his work
Speaker 1: at work. And there were like moments in this movie
Speaker 1: where I was I guess I was like kind of
Speaker 1: like you watching the Shield series, where like are they
Speaker 1: are they trying to say something critical? But then in
Speaker 1: the next thing you're like, oh, just kidding, just kidding,
Speaker 1: just kidding, He's amazing. He just drinks a little bit.
Speaker 1: Like it's just so it's a lot, let's talk about it. Yeah. Um, well,
Speaker 1: I guess is the um Should I just do the recap? Then? Well, yeah, discuss, yes,
Speaker 1: feel free to jump in during the recap. I can't
Speaker 1: tell if this movie has a really convoluted plot or
Speaker 1: if it's like three sentences long. The plot doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. There are several like key plot holes, like
Speaker 1: the first being that oh, Jackson like couldn't have joined
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps with a juvenile criminal record, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't think of that. Yeah. Also, there's so many like
Speaker 1: convenient things that happen, like the ordering of the food
Speaker 1: and getting delivered and the exact right, like I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So here's the story that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Um by Christian Buda Gast. I like to like that.
Speaker 1: It's it's an outtour piece by Mr Christian Buda Gast
Speaker 1: and we're like who um. So the movie opens with
Speaker 1: like text on the screen with statistics that say, um,
Speaker 1: that in Los Angeles, uh, which is the bank robbery
Speaker 1: capital of the world. Um, banks are robbed times a year. Uh.
Speaker 1: We see then an armored car being robbed. The cups
Speaker 1: show up. There's a big shootout between the gang of
Speaker 1: robbers or the Den of Thieves and yeah, them and
Speaker 1: the police and the Den of thieves managed to escape
Speaker 1: with the armored car and the their leader is Ray Merriman. UM.
Speaker 1: Fifty cent is also there playing a character whose name
Speaker 1: I never figured out. Um, my favorite I heard about
Speaker 1: the fifty cent character is that at one point because
Speaker 1: he like works out in his garage and you see
Speaker 1: he has a stadium arcadium red hot chiliea yester. I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, does that get's in my notes? I
Speaker 1: was like, whose poster is that the stadium arcadium? My mind?
Speaker 1: I was like his cent my brother, Like what going on?
Speaker 1: I loved that little character detail. He's a red hot
Speaker 1: chili pepper. His fan his name Hagan. Let me look
Speaker 1: at IMDb. His name is oh ensign Laveau. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: And then Donnie is also there. That's o'she Jackson Jr. Um.
Speaker 1: There's also this guy named Bosco, so that's that's the
Speaker 1: Den of Thieves. Then we cut to big nick a K.
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler himself. Wait that that that is? Who? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, that completely slipped my mind. Yeah, it's the
Speaker 1: unfortunate truth that he played the Phantom of the Opera
Speaker 1: really badly. Holy sh it. I don't know who I
Speaker 1: thought it was, but I did not remember it being
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler. Wow, um, and settle you with that. I'm broken,
Speaker 1: so broken right now. M Gerard Butler and I I
Speaker 1: was an extra on a movie that he was the
Speaker 1: star of. If anyone remembers. I think it was called
Speaker 1: The Bounty Hunter for Anniston's also in it. Um, I
Speaker 1: was an extra in that movie. You're welcome, everybody, congratulations. Um,
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler and I did make eye contact on that
Speaker 1: set for a brief moment, and um, that is my
Speaker 1: that's my story about Gerard Butler. Anyway, his career is
Speaker 1: very um all over the place. There's just like a
Speaker 1: lot going because wasn't he in that movie p S.
Speaker 1: I Love You? Is that was that him? Or remember
Speaker 1: that Irish guy? Yes? Oh he was like dead husband
Speaker 1: and damn I that movie was really forced down my
Speaker 1: throat in like middle school or whenever I came in.
Speaker 1: He's also in that. There's a rom com it's called
Speaker 1: like The Ugly Truth or something with with Katherine Heigel.
Speaker 1: I want to say, isn't it He's It's just he's
Speaker 1: got what we're saying wild. Um, yeah, he's He's. It's
Speaker 1: but it's like he really he's bad. He's been bad
Speaker 1: in every genre. It's really interesting. He's a great example.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, he's He's really blown it in so
Speaker 1: many different genres. I almost respect it. Yeah. Okay, So anyway,
Speaker 1: Big Nick is the head of Major Crimes of the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. I think, I don't know what
Speaker 1: anyone's title is, but he's in charge of this investigation.
Speaker 1: He goes to the crime scene. We learned that the
Speaker 1: armored truck that the den of thieves stole was empty,
Speaker 1: and so they're like, well, why would they steal an
Speaker 1: empty ruck? What's going on? And how did they know
Speaker 1: about the drop offs and the roots and all this stuff? Um,
Speaker 1: And then they know of Merriman. Merriman if what is
Speaker 1: his name, Mary Mary Mary Merriman and his band of
Speaker 1: Merryman to either of you remember he was like in
Speaker 1: a bunch of Disney Channel original movies, Ryan Merriman. He
Speaker 1: played the little leprechron in Luck of the Irish. That's
Speaker 1: who I was thinking of the entire movie. That actors
Speaker 1: in a bunch of d cops he said, like old
Speaker 1: old ones, like he was in Luck of the Irish.
Speaker 1: He I think he was decapitated in Final Destination three,
Speaker 1: amongst other Those are his top two credits I could
Speaker 1: think of. Of course, Wow, Okay, so they know about
Speaker 1: Merriman and they think that he might behind it. He
Speaker 1: might be like behind this rubbery. Where did they get
Speaker 1: his name from? Like, we don't literally just were like,
Speaker 1: what if it's Merriman? Like I did not even think.
Speaker 1: I was like, I guess I just didn't question it.
Speaker 1: But they didn't, like they just they just knew about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's famous. He's a famous den of thief. Um. So
Speaker 1: he So then Nick pays a visit to Donnie, who
Speaker 1: the cops um you know, to be an associate of Merriman.
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how they know that either, but anyway, ah,
Speaker 1: Nick and his deputies interrogate Donnie, and Donnie breaks and
Speaker 1: tells them that he is, in fact kidnap. They kidnap him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they they him. They kidnap him, take him to a
Speaker 1: hotel room where they're partying with some sex workers. Unceremoniously.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even even think they got
Speaker 1: featured extra, Like they unceremoniously are they're dismissed from the
Speaker 1: scene without ever having said a word. They're just and
Speaker 1: they were just guided out and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: And they are the first women who even appear on
Speaker 1: the screen in the entire movie. And it takes about
Speaker 1: twenty minutes for them to show up. So until then,
Speaker 1: it's just a lot of toxic men, and then it's
Speaker 1: still a lot of toxic men after that. But sometimes
Speaker 1: you see a woman sprinkled throughout a scene. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: So yeah, Nick abducts Uh and interrogates Donnie, and Donnie
Speaker 1: breaks and tells him that he is a driver from Merriman,
Speaker 1: and he tells him about a previous job they pulled together,
Speaker 1: and then Nick, let's Donnie go, and he's like, we'll
Speaker 1: be in touch. Another thing I want to bring up
Speaker 1: is that in that scene he shows Donnie his regulator tattoo, Which, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's because I felt like those early scenes were
Speaker 1: the most specific to the l A. S D and
Speaker 1: break it down for us. Yeah, so I mean that
Speaker 1: whole interrogation thing, like I've read through um like reviews
Speaker 1: that the county puts out of incidents that officers get
Speaker 1: in trouble for it, and that's like not too far
Speaker 1: off from some real instances that I've read about with
Speaker 1: l A County Sheriff's deputy is um the tattoo, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a real deputy gang. The Regulators is a deputy
Speaker 1: gang that operated out of the Century Station. Um, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean all of that is very very true, looking
Speaker 1: very not true, far from reality. Um, that's that's how
Speaker 1: these deputy gangs go down. It's so and it's it's
Speaker 1: like the way it's presented is so bizarre too, because it,
Speaker 1: especially after reading your reporting, you're like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: something that could conceivably have happened, but we're not supposed
Speaker 1: to think it's bad. Like it's the way that it's
Speaker 1: framed to the viewer is so manipulative and bizarre, even
Speaker 1: though it seems like it's showing some pretty true to life,
Speaker 1: um interaction potential interactions. Yeah, yeah, I almost like missed
Speaker 1: it the first time I watched the movie. He was
Speaker 1: just like, see my tattoo where what you might call
Speaker 1: part of a gang. And then yeah, at least we're
Speaker 1: a clique, which is what which is the term that
Speaker 1: you know people in law enforcement currently is when they're
Speaker 1: talking about these gangs, like they're very happy to admit
Speaker 1: most of the time under oath that they're part of
Speaker 1: a clique a deputy click. Um. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that was very true to life. Two things that he
Speaker 1: said that I wrote down was we just shoot you
Speaker 1: it's less paperwork, um, which I mean yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: attorneys have told me as much that it's easier for
Speaker 1: these deputies to kill people rather than have them live.
Speaker 1: When they live. They've had an attorney say to me,
Speaker 1: that's the deputy's worst nightmare because they can challenge the
Speaker 1: police as narrative of them being in fear for the life,
Speaker 1: and it just makes things a lot harder. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that attitude is very true to life. Um. He also
Speaker 1: tells Donnie, you're not the bad guys we are, which
Speaker 1: is again it's like it's so it like made my
Speaker 1: head hurt, um Like, because if you see that on paper,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, that seems to be pretty accurate.
Speaker 1: But the way that the movie frames it and the
Speaker 1: where that like exists in context with the rest of
Speaker 1: the story makes it seem like this like bizarre joke.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's so I kept, yeah, I kept
Speaker 1: expecting like the arc of the rest of the story
Speaker 1: to go very very differently, that like you'd see more
Speaker 1: examples of them being the bad guys in a way
Speaker 1: that like the movie is actually framing them as being
Speaker 1: the bad guys, but the movie frames them as like Nope,
Speaker 1: they're good at police, and they're the people you're supposed
Speaker 1: to be rooting for. I think I don't know who
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be rooting for in this movie, actually
Speaker 1: because I found no one to be redeemable. No, no
Speaker 1: one was redeemable. But I mean I definitely wasn't rooting
Speaker 1: for the regulators. Um. I mean I think as far
Speaker 1: as like when we're looking at like who did the
Speaker 1: most harm? Like, I think the den of thieves like
Speaker 1: hurt a lot less people, right. I think Donnie's worst
Speaker 1: crime was, you know, giving those two poor women some
Speaker 1: expired Chinese hoods. It does seem like they were mostly
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean it was like they were the
Speaker 1: crimes were victimless. They were taking money. Oh maybe that's wait.
Speaker 1: I just had a moment. I think I know why
Speaker 1: he's called merry men. Is it like, isn't that a
Speaker 1: Robin hood thing? Robin and taking from the rich and
Speaker 1: giving to the Oh, my seventh grade English teacher is
Speaker 1: so th hells right now? Um yeah, it's like that
Speaker 1: they were not hurting anybody in there, or at least originally,
Speaker 1: it seems like, I mean, the regulators are Throughout the
Speaker 1: plot um, like hurting people, at least if they you know,
Speaker 1: like you're introduct like your introduction to o'sh Jackson in
Speaker 1: any details him being abducted and physically harmed and all
Speaker 1: sorts of offensive, like they say racist stuff to him,
Speaker 1: they say homophobic stuff to him. They it's just they
Speaker 1: locked his body in a really weird way. It's so
Speaker 1: like there. But then the marketing for this movie, so
Speaker 1: I think that that was I would be really curious
Speaker 1: to know the the editing process for a script like this,
Speaker 1: or like if the original draft of this script could
Speaker 1: have potentially been more ambiguous, I guess, than than what
Speaker 1: you kind of end up with. But the marketing definitely
Speaker 1: wants you to think good guys versus bad guys, Like
Speaker 1: even down to the way that the poster is designed,
Speaker 1: it's the bad guys are like in like their upside down,
Speaker 1: and the good guys a k a. As the movie
Speaker 1: would have you believe that the regulators are like in
Speaker 1: the kind of dominant position. And I was even watching,
Speaker 1: I was curious what the press tour for this movie was, like. Um,
Speaker 1: so I watched and it was mostly just like fift
Speaker 1: and Gerard Butler being friends in a way that was
Speaker 1: like I don't need to watch this, um, but I
Speaker 1: watched them. But but they would also present the story,
Speaker 1: uh in that way, like when introducing the movie, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a good guy bad guy. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like Heat a movie I've never seen but
Speaker 1: I know is about cops. Another long boring like Tuk
Speaker 1: that movie. Ah, but but I just found it, like yeah,
Speaker 1: like that this at least the marketing narrative for this movie,
Speaker 1: even though there are lines like we are the bad guys,
Speaker 1: is that the regulators are in fact the good guys,
Speaker 1: or that's the pitch. It's very it's so it made
Speaker 1: my head hurt. And part of what like and we'll
Speaker 1: talk about this too, but the well, what's what happens
Speaker 1: next in the story is that um Nick's his wife
Speaker 1: leaves him because he's been cheating on her. But I
Speaker 1: feel like the women are there too, like humanize Big
Speaker 1: Nick a bit and like make us feel empathy or
Speaker 1: try to make the audience feel empathetic towards him. Um
Speaker 1: So that's that's happening. He's being divorced. Um And then meanwhile, Merriman,
Speaker 1: Donny and the rest of the den of thieves, UH
Speaker 1: start make start making plans to rob the Los Angeles
Speaker 1: branch of the Federal Reserve, which is the only bank
Speaker 1: in l A that's never been successfully robbed because it's
Speaker 1: under such tight security. And their plan is that an
Speaker 1: average of thirty million dollars in cash gets destroyed every day,
Speaker 1: which I was curious if that's true, because if it is,
Speaker 1: what a horrifying fact um A great idea, just there's
Speaker 1: literally So they're planning to rob this thirty million dollars
Speaker 1: in cash on this particular day and it gets destroyed
Speaker 1: because it's considered like old and unfit um, which means
Speaker 1: that it's untraceable and no one's going to be looking
Speaker 1: for it, so they're going to try to steal it. Um. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Nick and his crew of deputies start tailing uh Merriman's
Speaker 1: den of thieves. They're fucking with them, They're letting them
Speaker 1: know you we're on to you. Uh. And then Donnie
Speaker 1: is kind of playing both sides. You know, He's he's
Speaker 1: telling the cops stuff about this heist. He's telling Merriman
Speaker 1: that he's been talking to the cops. You know, he's
Speaker 1: kind of in the middle This is where the part
Speaker 1: of the movie that I began to grow very confused, Like,
Speaker 1: there's the middle of this movie is really long, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't I don't. I didn't understand what was going
Speaker 1: on well enough to tell when someone was lying about
Speaker 1: what was going on, and UM ended up really becoming distressed.
Speaker 1: I did not know what right. And then okay, so
Speaker 1: then the before the big heist, the Den of Thieves
Speaker 1: rob a small local bank, which Big Nick has been
Speaker 1: tipped off about, so he heads there. Um, but the robbers,
Speaker 1: the Den of Thieves, they don't do their usual thing.
Speaker 1: This time. They make demands, they take and kill hostages,
Speaker 1: or so we are led to believe. Um, but wait
Speaker 1: a minute. Turns out that this was all to create
Speaker 1: a diversion to distract the cops and give the Den
Speaker 1: of Thieves time to pull off the real heist at
Speaker 1: the Federal at the Federal Reserve, which Nick eventually figures
Speaker 1: out is what's happening, And then we see the heist
Speaker 1: in progress. They use the armored truck that they stole
Speaker 1: to pose as And I don't know if they're like
Speaker 1: guys who work for the Federal Reserve or it's like
Speaker 1: some entity that like drops the money off at the
Speaker 1: serve from the banks. So they pretend to be these guys.
Speaker 1: They drop off the money that they stole from this
Speaker 1: small bank um at the Federal Reserve. Donnie is inside
Speaker 1: one of the containers of money and then we see
Speaker 1: him do a bunch of heist stuff when when they
Speaker 1: like a little cube, You're like, oh, it's nice. They
Speaker 1: were like twenty minutes of this movie that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm this is because I love a heist movie. I
Speaker 1: love to watch a heist and I was I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is this is fun. I'm enjoying this. They they're
Speaker 1: cutting the power, you know, there's all that kind of
Speaker 1: heisty stuff fall very national treasure. It's exciting. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: then um, Donnie gets the money that was going to
Speaker 1: be destroyed. He prevents it from being shredded. He puts
Speaker 1: it in bags and then he throws it in I
Speaker 1: guess like a trash shoot. And then all of the
Speaker 1: den of thieves managed to escape. Uh. They high jack
Speaker 1: the dump truck and get the bags of money, but
Speaker 1: oh no, Big Nick and his deputies pick up Donnie.
Speaker 1: Then they find the rest of the robbers there's this
Speaker 1: huge shootout with all of the Den of thieves being
Speaker 1: It's like so many cars around them, Um, how many
Speaker 1: civilian casualties were? Like it seemed like they're the highway
Speaker 1: was full of people, but then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: there were only the four main cast members like it was.
Speaker 1: It was was so confusing, I'm not sure. Um. So
Speaker 1: they kill all the car the deputy, the Sheriff's kill
Speaker 1: the den of thieves. But wait a minute, the money
Speaker 1: that they stole, it's not there. And then when Nick
Speaker 1: gets back to his car, Donnie has escaped because it
Speaker 1: turns out Donnie was the mastermind of the whole heigh
Speaker 1: He had been tricking everyone. He's the one who got
Speaker 1: the money. And then we cut to him in London
Speaker 1: with a British accent that I I Am not sure
Speaker 1: how authentic we're convincing it is, um, and he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's planning another heist. He goes diamond exchange drinks on me. Mates.
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, sure, so that's the story. Let's take
Speaker 1: another quick break and then we'll come back to discuss
Speaker 1: car back. Um, I guess to start um series, we
Speaker 1: we we sort of talked a little bit about the
Speaker 1: the interrogation scene at the beginning of the movie already
Speaker 1: when they kidnapped Donnie. Um, were there other um elements Uh, regardless,
Speaker 1: kind of I guess regardless to start of how they're
Speaker 1: being framed, But were there other specifics about the L
Speaker 1: A s. D. That jumped out to you in in
Speaker 1: the way UM that this movie is kind of written
Speaker 1: and presented. Yeah, it was really just like sort of
Speaker 1: like taken by like how many references to the gangs
Speaker 1: that they were in this movie. I Mean there's that
Speaker 1: scene UM where he shows the tattoo and he's beating Donnie. UM.
Speaker 1: Donnie also makes reference to being incarcerated at Wayside UM,
Speaker 1: which is a facility that's home to another deputy gang
Speaker 1: called the Wayside Whitey's, which UM is like a KKK
Speaker 1: type gang that regularly terrorizes UM black inmates. UM. So
Speaker 1: that was also just sort of like huh okay, like
Speaker 1: another open secret. UM. Gerard Butler big Nick when they're
Speaker 1: outside the bank and they're sort of running surveillance on
Speaker 1: this UM smaller bank that the den of Thieves is
Speaker 1: going to rob UM, he says that they let it
Speaker 1: go down because the Dunafee has had to commit a
Speaker 1: crime um in order for them to do something. As
Speaker 1: soon as they got out of the car with those
Speaker 1: assault rifles, the crime was being committed, which I mean
Speaker 1: it tracks um as far as the L A S
Speaker 1: d UM just sort of like you know, letting things
Speaker 1: happen and stepping in, you know, when they think it
Speaker 1: will be to their advantage. There have been several cases
Speaker 1: like that that I've covered. Um. Yeah, that seemed very
Speaker 1: realistic to me. Wow, it's it. So this movie is
Speaker 1: written and directed by Christian Gooda Gast, who is from
Speaker 1: what I can tell, he's soap opera nepotism and also
Speaker 1: Caitlin relevant to our interest, the guy who plays John
Speaker 1: Jacob asked her in Titanic Christian Gourda Ghast is his son,
Speaker 1: so he's also Titanic nepotism. Whoa John Jacobaster the richest
Speaker 1: man on the ship famously the riches man on the ship.
Speaker 1: R I P. It's just kidding. He probably was horrible, UM,
Speaker 1: but Christian Goods is nepotism of that. UM. I would
Speaker 1: be really curious to know where his because it does
Speaker 1: seem like you're saying series he's referencing a lot of
Speaker 1: hyper specifics UM and he grew up in l A.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, it maybe is some cultural osmosis going
Speaker 1: on there. And then I also read that UM there
Speaker 1: was a former special agent that consulted on this movie
Speaker 1: as well, So it sounds like it's very possible that
Speaker 1: they had consulted someone who had been somehow affiliated with
Speaker 1: the l A. S D to make this movie, which
Speaker 1: sort of opens up something that I feel like we
Speaker 1: we've talked about in passing over the years, which is
Speaker 1: that you know when you're writing about or when they're
Speaker 1: It's like often when there's movies that are about cops
Speaker 1: or especially about the military, UM consultants are brought on
Speaker 1: who are very pro cop and pro military, and it's
Speaker 1: you never see consultants being brought on to a movie
Speaker 1: like this that have the same knowledge base but would
Speaker 1: be perhaps critical of murder, Like I feel like we
Speaker 1: we hear that all the time with UM. I forget
Speaker 1: what the what the job title is, but there's like
Speaker 1: a high ranking military person whose job is to work
Speaker 1: with Hollywood and say, okay, you can use our tanks
Speaker 1: and transformers if you get a B and C. You know,
Speaker 1: sneaking into the movie, and it's such a traceable pattern
Speaker 1: that I would guess whatever consulting was done on this
Speaker 1: movie is kind of the same, the same thing as
Speaker 1: going on year. Um. Yeah, I wish I knew more
Speaker 1: about the consulting process with this movie. There's it seems
Speaker 1: like people were really not interested in this movie because
Speaker 1: I couldn't find a lot about the production other than um,
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler love going on talk shows together and chatting. Um,
Speaker 1: that's all. But but yeah, I think that the consulting
Speaker 1: process on movies like this is really critical because it
Speaker 1: is like, it's bizarre that there's that level of specificity
Speaker 1: in a completely uncritical way. M Well, I would also
Speaker 1: argue that because I watched this movie for the first
Speaker 1: time before I had read any of the parts of
Speaker 1: your piece on these Gangs in the Sheriff's Department in
Speaker 1: l A. And I don't know if I'm just dense,
Speaker 1: but like I again, I I was aware of like
Speaker 1: just the trope of you know, cops in movies, you know,
Speaker 1: being these kind of hard ass I don't play by
Speaker 1: the rules. I do my own thing, and that's how
Speaker 1: I catch the bad guys. Sort of just like mentalities,
Speaker 1: especially for the big Nick character, but like the references
Speaker 1: to the gang he's in, Like I just kind of
Speaker 1: missed that, you know, I know he's like pointing out
Speaker 1: a tattoo, but I don't I don't know like what
Speaker 1: exactly that was in reference to. So even though there
Speaker 1: are these specific references, I think if you don't already
Speaker 1: have some kind of baseline of knowledge about these gangs
Speaker 1: in sheriff's apartments, which I'd imagine the general public doesn't
Speaker 1: know that much about, which is why it's so important
Speaker 1: for everyone to read your writing series. But like I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, and so I didn't even connect
Speaker 1: the dots really until after I had read the parts
Speaker 1: that have been published so far of your writing. So, um,
Speaker 1: I guess I was. I ended up being just very
Speaker 1: surprised that how not prized. But I was expecting, um,
Speaker 1: if there are going to be these references in the movie,
Speaker 1: that it would that it would be more critical about it.
Speaker 1: But again, the framing of these of these deputy characters
Speaker 1: in the movie is like, yeah, they're grizzled, they're rough
Speaker 1: around the edges, they drink, they smoke, they cheat on
Speaker 1: their wives, they get divorced, you know, all these things,
Speaker 1: but ultimately, at the end of the day, they're good
Speaker 1: cops and they're doing good work and where you know,
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be rooting for them. And even though
Speaker 1: the three of us watching this movie are not rooting
Speaker 1: for Big Nick and his deputies because of how we know, uh,
Speaker 1: like just all of the horror and terror and everything
Speaker 1: that cops inflicts on the communities they're supposed to be protecting. Um,
Speaker 1: they are not redeemable to us. But again, I think
Speaker 1: the movie is like framing them is like, Nope, these
Speaker 1: are the good guys. See see how empathetic they are. Oh,
Speaker 1: don't you feel bad for him? He's crying because he
Speaker 1: can't see his daughter like that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The way that daughters are bandied about in this goddamn
Speaker 1: movie is so it's it is like the you're referencing
Speaker 1: this earlier Caitlin. But yeah, the the way that uh,
Speaker 1: the women in this movie are used are generally too
Speaker 1: endeare you to uh male character, especially the daughters with
Speaker 1: juror Oh, my god, Gerard Butler, like my daughter and
Speaker 1: my daughter and my daughter I'm so sick of Like
Speaker 1: he's like just God, I've my daughter culture we gotta
Speaker 1: kill it. It's so boring and manipulative in the way
Speaker 1: that it's kind of weaponized because you could, I mean,
Speaker 1: you could take them my daughter of it all out
Speaker 1: of Gerard Butler's storyline, and the only result of it
Speaker 1: would be that you would like his character less, which
Speaker 1: this movie seems pretty invested in you, uh, remaining somehow
Speaker 1: like somewhat loyal to him. Um. And then you kind
Speaker 1: of get a similar moment with fifty cents character where
Speaker 1: I don't know in the way that the daughters are ustress.
Speaker 1: It's just so corny and trophy too, because for fifty like,
Speaker 1: this is my daughter's prom date. You better not be
Speaker 1: mean to my daughter or or all of my friends will.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, God, it's so corny. It's a
Speaker 1: scene we've seen a bazillion times. It's scary and possessive.
Speaker 1: And then he closes the door and it's a stadium
Speaker 1: arcadium poster and I'm like, and the daughter never comes back,
Speaker 1: and like they never see her again. We don't even
Speaker 1: know how the prom went. I was invested. Um. I
Speaker 1: love how win Gerard Butler's daughter has a line on
Speaker 1: screen her. The first thing she says to her other
Speaker 1: is what are you doing? Same valid question question, especially
Speaker 1: after because his his his wife just said to him like,
Speaker 1: you smell really bad. And then he got extremely close
Speaker 1: to his very young daughter, and I was like, stinky
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler getting close to his kid to get I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I guess the one act of
Speaker 1: agency that a woman has in the whole movie is
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler's wife being like, Nope, we're getting out of here, um,
Speaker 1: which again was something that I thought. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I kept like, I just like, there were a
Speaker 1: few moments where I'm like, oh, benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 1: maybe this is going somewhere, and then it never was.
Speaker 1: But it's I thought it was interesting. I guess interesting
Speaker 1: is as close as you'll get. But um, that they
Speaker 1: gave Gerard Butler like a disastrous home life, and they
Speaker 1: made it like the movie went really out of its
Speaker 1: way to show that he was just a plague to
Speaker 1: everyone in his personal life, um, and that he was
Speaker 1: pretty like unloved by his family, which I feel like
Speaker 1: it is. I mean that that's doesn't necessarily happen in
Speaker 1: all copaganda movies. A lot of times you have like
Speaker 1: the like a cop that has a very well structured
Speaker 1: home life and maybe he goes rogue a little bit
Speaker 1: and maybe he like focks around with other women, but
Speaker 1: he still has this like nuclear family unit. But that's
Speaker 1: not I mean, it's very much not the case for him.
Speaker 1: I was wondering because there is such a well documented
Speaker 1: high rate of domestic abuse and um coming from cops,
Speaker 1: usually to their wives, but just to their spouses in general.
Speaker 1: I was like, is that where this is going? But
Speaker 1: then it was It turns out it was going actually nowhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's that very long scene where he like shows up
Speaker 1: to his wife's like little dinner party one of her
Speaker 1: other friends. What was going on there? And he's like
Speaker 1: terrorizing everybody, And I'm just like, again, like, who are
Speaker 1: we supposed to be rooting for in this movie? Because
Speaker 1: everyone's so toxic and awful. I think that was supposed
Speaker 1: to sort of like put her in a bad light,
Speaker 1: right because she was there with her boyfriend, and which
Speaker 1: I think was supposed to be imply at all, like
Speaker 1: she's been unfaithful as well. Everyone is right, and like
Speaker 1: when you when you first meet her, it's in the
Speaker 1: same scene that she's leaving him, so again, like I
Speaker 1: look at that, I'm like, yes, you were clearly very
Speaker 1: justified in leaving this very shitty Why did you marry
Speaker 1: this person? Is my question. But the way that these
Speaker 1: scenes like this get framed in movies in like just
Speaker 1: sort of the way that storytelling manipulates audiences, is it
Speaker 1: makes us like we're not meant to like that his
Speaker 1: wife character or side with her because of like she's
Speaker 1: doing something mean to the guy that we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be rooting for. So yeah, and then he just shows
Speaker 1: up at his daughter's like playground at school, and no
Speaker 1: teachers being like who is this man? Don't talk to
Speaker 1: this weird man who's lingering at a playground, like what
Speaker 1: it's so like? Yeah, him lingering at a playground was
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I need to get me out
Speaker 1: of here, get me out of here, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to be here anymore. I it's I. I I
Speaker 1: was so confused, like what are we supposed to in
Speaker 1: what world is this going to endear you to this man?
Speaker 1: And then I was just like, well, you know, um,
Speaker 1: we're clearly not the target audience for this movie. I
Speaker 1: would honestly I'm just like, I want to talk to
Speaker 1: whoever the target movie, Like who is the target audience
Speaker 1: for this movie? And I would like to have a
Speaker 1: word with them because they have they have a twisted mind.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, the way that and that's mainly I mean,
Speaker 1: that's kind of the only way that in terms for
Speaker 1: for in terms of talking about like maybe this movie
Speaker 1: obviously doesn't pass the Bechdel test, Like women are just
Speaker 1: there too make you feel away about a good guy
Speaker 1: or a bad guy. And I think, well, another the
Speaker 1: other female characters you have. You have a number of
Speaker 1: sex workers who are presented nameless, faceless, usually as set dressing,
Speaker 1: um and either to be shamed or to be set dressing.
Speaker 1: And then you have um, what's his name, Leev Schreiber's brother, Pop,
Speaker 1: what's Merriman? Uh, Merryman, Merriman's girlfriend or his wife, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure which. Wait, he's leave Schreibers. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of nepotism going on in this time.
Speaker 1: It's nepotism top to bottom, except well, actually, I guess
Speaker 1: Leave Schreiber's brother, and o'she Jackson Jr. Is ice Cube's son,
Speaker 1: and Christian Guda Gasta is John Jacob Astor from Titanic Son.
Speaker 1: So whatever nepotism feels the world, we know this. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so so that Merriman's partner, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like really, um what their relationship is
Speaker 1: because the movie doesn't tell you, but he weaponizes her
Speaker 1: as well and kind of sens her out on. Can
Speaker 1: someone explain to me what was going on there? Because
Speaker 1: I was confused? I mean, it didn't That's another thing
Speaker 1: that didn't really make any sense. I feel like she
Speaker 1: seduced him and in that in that interaction she was
Speaker 1: able to she informed him where the robbery was going
Speaker 1: to be, But like, I don't really that part didn't
Speaker 1: really make sense to me, Like why would that come up?
Speaker 1: Like in a trist Like I think my boyfriend's driving
Speaker 1: a bag because you might want to know about this, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what Mary? Mary? You learned that Merriman puts her up
Speaker 1: to it, and like she's he tells her to deliberately
Speaker 1: give him this information so that those deputies go to
Speaker 1: that place, so that they are adequately distracted from the
Speaker 1: real heist. But right, like so it's this he's oh god,
Speaker 1: He's like pimping out his girlfriend who like be better
Speaker 1: at crimes, and I'm just like, oh my god. And
Speaker 1: then there's that scene where there's like just like a
Speaker 1: dick measuring contest at the shooting range between Merriman and
Speaker 1: Gerard Butler, and they're just like, I can shoot my
Speaker 1: gun better than it's who who is this? But it
Speaker 1: seems like that is like cop culture in like just
Speaker 1: the the embarrassing dick measuring hyper masculine cowboy culture is
Speaker 1: so I don't it's so, I guess I'm I'm curious
Speaker 1: about your your thoughts on that two series where it's
Speaker 1: like it seems like these two things kind of feed
Speaker 1: into each other in this very insidious way where it's
Speaker 1: like all media surrounding cops reinforced this cowboy mentality. And
Speaker 1: I I mean, there's countless examples of people who decide
Speaker 1: they want to become cops based off of watching movies
Speaker 1: like this. And then it sounds like, based on your
Speaker 1: your reporting, that the culture that it actually exists very
Speaker 1: much reflects that it It just seems like a kind
Speaker 1: of a snake eating its own tail in terms of
Speaker 1: how the how the culture works there. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you summed it up perfectly. I mean everything that was
Speaker 1: depicted in this movie, like that kind of stuff is
Speaker 1: celebrated in law enforcement, you know, like after there's a shooting. Um,
Speaker 1: a lot of the times they're going out and having
Speaker 1: drinks and you know, celebrating it. Um. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: think you very much hit it on the head. Like people,
Speaker 1: A lot of people, unfortunately, I think, join law enforcement
Speaker 1: so they can participate in stuff like this. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like fulfill this you know, whether it seems like like
Speaker 1: a dominant fantasy basically um right yeah, and then yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean again, framing is everything. The way these characters
Speaker 1: are framed in media is often like, Wow, they're so cool,
Speaker 1: they're such badasses. You know, they play by their own rules.
Speaker 1: They're the heroes. They're like, you know, quote unquote saving
Speaker 1: the day, and it just perpetuates this cycle of propaganda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not good. It's it's uh, I'll say it. I
Speaker 1: don't like it. Um wow, brave, thank you. And I
Speaker 1: also thought it was like a very deliberate choice to
Speaker 1: make them to make the den of thieves, the you
Speaker 1: know who the movie wants you to feel it are
Speaker 1: the bad guys, to make them all veterans as well.
Speaker 1: It's like, I think, a very trophy and deliberate choice.
Speaker 1: They were very um wait it was it was a
Speaker 1: specific branch. They were from Marsock Marine Special Forces, right,
Speaker 1: And so it's like, you're all there's also this other
Speaker 1: narrative that's kind of going on there that implies that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, veterans are inclined to behave a type of
Speaker 1: way in a way that's just I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: it's obviously extremely unnuanced, but it doesn't really I mean,
Speaker 1: this movie interrogates nothing except like why does Gerard Butler
Speaker 1: looks so bad? But um? And the other the other
Speaker 1: big question does fifty cent listen to stadium Marquadium? Um?
Speaker 1: But in terms of like really intentionally choosing, I feel
Speaker 1: like it's really tropey to be like, oh, he's an
Speaker 1: ex marine, so of course he's like really tough and
Speaker 1: really violent without interrogating like, well, where does that trope
Speaker 1: come from? And can the government not be held to
Speaker 1: account as being extremely complicit and um marine violence and
Speaker 1: then providing veterans with no resources, um, you know, or
Speaker 1: job prospects often once they're out of the forces, and
Speaker 1: just I don't know that kind of pain to me
Speaker 1: as well, of like, oh, of course this movie is
Speaker 1: going to be poorly written enough just to be like, um,
Speaker 1: ex marine, sure sounds good. Um yeah, are there was
Speaker 1: like we definitely ran out of women. Um I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There anything um you'd like to add about anything series
Speaker 1: or I guess I'm specifically interested in your thoughts on
Speaker 1: how media can handle the representation of law enforcements and
Speaker 1: that kind of things more responsibly or in a way
Speaker 1: that is, um, just more critical and shedding light on
Speaker 1: the again, the like very often racially charged violence that
Speaker 1: they're inflicting on individuals and communities. Any any thoughts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think we just need to stop having
Speaker 1: movies like this, right, I mean yeah, And if you
Speaker 1: I don't think police violence should be glorified in movies,
Speaker 1: like I definitely think like there's perhaps a way to
Speaker 1: you know, have films that discuss the terror that police
Speaker 1: inflict on community news, but it's done in such a
Speaker 1: way that it's you know, amplifying the voices of the
Speaker 1: people that survived the horror and you know, speaking about
Speaker 1: the implications of that and the toll that it's taken
Speaker 1: on their lives. I'm much more interested in seeing that
Speaker 1: rather than some asshole with a gun, you know, gives
Speaker 1: the R word and kill a bunch of people and
Speaker 1: then go home and collect. Think one of the few
Speaker 1: movies I've seen about that or like, like from that
Speaker 1: perspective would be straight out of Compton Um the hate
Speaker 1: you give, and then maybe handful of others, but they're
Speaker 1: just yeah, those stories just aren't being told nearly as
Speaker 1: often as all of these compaganda movies because there's just
Speaker 1: so many of them, and a lot of them, Like
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn it, this is a movie that I like,
Speaker 1: it's about cops, and I just have to there's just
Speaker 1: like so much of that that I've had to un learn.
Speaker 1: I think it does come into like there there there
Speaker 1: are you know, there is media that exists that is
Speaker 1: critical of police, but they're also just like not funded
Speaker 1: or promoted um to anywhere near the same extent. Like
Speaker 1: no one has ever heard of Dennett of Thieves, and
Speaker 1: yet it made eighty million dollars, Like it is such
Speaker 1: an industry as well that it's like it I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it feels so frustrating and so hopeless and I
Speaker 1: think that there there is potential, especially um when reporting
Speaker 1: like yours comes out series that it's like, the more
Speaker 1: that the public is generally aware that this is just
Speaker 1: total bullshit that um, we've kind of been spoon fed
Speaker 1: as like easy content to consume that hopefully that you know,
Speaker 1: the desires of of of the general public will change
Speaker 1: and be less open and accommodating and willing to just
Speaker 1: fork over money to stuff like this. Um yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's very dark. And then it's also
Speaker 1: just like so intuitive in the same way that it's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, if you want to make a movie
Speaker 1: that's uh an accurate depiction of of what Like, it's
Speaker 1: just the idea that the only option is to center
Speaker 1: and consult cops. Like, in what world are you going
Speaker 1: to come out with something that isn't just promoting cops?
Speaker 1: And it just seems like that is the that's the
Speaker 1: media habit we're stuck in. And it's and and it's
Speaker 1: only recently kind of being um questioned. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like dogs are Cops. That's like the most popular show
Speaker 1: for children is cop Dogs. Yea. And I feel like
Speaker 1: in the in the last several years, there's been I mean,
Speaker 1: there's been so many different takes on copaganda. There's so
Speaker 1: many ways to come at at um discussion, but it
Speaker 1: just seems like, yeah, like movies like Ten of Thieves
Speaker 1: don't serve anyone, Like it's just kind of garbage. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like referencing these gangs the Christian whatever the ship
Speaker 1: his name is I was aware of, but then doing
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to like criticize or comment on the behavior.
Speaker 1: I mean, aside from you know, again, they're showing the
Speaker 1: these deputies like you know, roughing up Donnie and they, yes,
Speaker 1: they do do a big shootout and Um murder a
Speaker 1: lot of people. But again, it's all about the framing.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, they were bad guys, they were robbers,
Speaker 1: and they're justified at the end when Big Nick kills
Speaker 1: um Leave Shriver's brother. The way that it's framed is
Speaker 1: like and this is like so hard for him and
Speaker 1: he doesn't actually want to do it, He just he
Speaker 1: has to do it. And it's like no one has
Speaker 1: to murder anybody, and and and the disingenuous framing of like,
Speaker 1: oh don't you feel for this guy because he has
Speaker 1: to murder It's like I don't know. Yeah, it makes
Speaker 1: my head hurt. But it's like, but it is so
Speaker 1: normalized in that genre that when you watch it unfold,
Speaker 1: these characters who literally admit to being the villain repeatedly. Um,
Speaker 1: it's so stuck into this genre that it's like believen
Speaker 1: if they say they're the villain, they're actually not, and
Speaker 1: we love them and we're gonna market it like that
Speaker 1: and we're gonna make eighty million bucking dollars. Um. So
Speaker 1: on that note, it doesn't pass the backbuilt tapest It
Speaker 1: really doesn't nowhere closed. Sorry, it does past the stadium
Speaker 1: arcadium test, which most movies don't. Um. So that's positive. Um.
Speaker 1: And then as far as our nipple scale zero to
Speaker 1: five nipples based on an intersectional examination of the movie,
Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and give this zero nipples. So
Speaker 1: I don't think it really deserves anything. Um, let's give
Speaker 1: it a zero. Yeah, that's gonna be. That's going to
Speaker 1: be a zero. Um, what would you like to rate it?
Speaker 1: It was horrible? I mean I am, I am genuinely
Speaker 1: very happy that you brought this to us though, because
Speaker 1: this is not normally the movie that we would cover,
Speaker 1: and like we just don't cover this genre very much,
Speaker 1: but it is definitely like important to talk about because
Speaker 1: a lot of people watch these movies like religiously, and
Speaker 1: and it definitely affects I mean, it unquestionably affects the
Speaker 1: way that they view law enforcement and what they're they're
Speaker 1: like willing to permit from law enforcement because, like you
Speaker 1: pointed it out, the most famous cop characters are constantly
Speaker 1: being terrible cops like and that's a part of the
Speaker 1: glorified image. UM. And so much of the the incredible
Speaker 1: reporting you've you've been releasing UM reflects that to absolutely
Speaker 1: horrific extent. UM. So yeah, UM, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: We really we really really appreciate it. Um. And thank
Speaker 1: you for bringing us uh feminist masterpiece Done of Thieves
Speaker 1: my new favorite movie. I would have never discovered this
Speaker 1: without YEA, So thank you so much. UM. And where
Speaker 1: can we um, where can we find your work? And
Speaker 1: where can we find um this this series you're you're
Speaker 1: releasing this pisod's going to come out tomorrow. Yeah. You
Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at series Castle and you
Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram. UM by you know, typing
Speaker 1: that in as well. Um, you can read the series
Speaker 1: on the Deputy Gangs at Knock dot l A tomorrow
Speaker 1: or today when this podcast is dropping, we will actually
Speaker 1: be releasing our UM chapter about the Regulators, so you
Speaker 1: can read all about Yes, perfect timing, so head over
Speaker 1: there and you can read all about the Deputy gang
Speaker 1: that Big Nick was in and all the horrible ship
Speaker 1: that they do. God damn, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: for coming. Thank you so much for the incredible reporting
Speaker 1: that you're doing. And um, yeah, I guess you can
Speaker 1: find the vectal cast and all in all the regular places,
Speaker 1: the Twitter, the Instagram, you can the Patreon, etcetera. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um yeah, please read the reporting that's Reese has done
Speaker 1: is continuing to do. And uh the Patreon. Can you
Speaker 1: can you plug the patroon again for nack l a yeah,
Speaker 1: or please support ournock Patreon. Um. Like I said, UM,
Speaker 1: this work is it costs a lot of money to
Speaker 1: do and I'd like to keep doing it. Um, So
Speaker 1: anything that you can spare is much appreciated. Yes, please, UM,
Speaker 1: and thanks for listening. Come back next week because we
Speaker 1: have UM, I think maybe our most impactful episode that
Speaker 1: we've ever released is coming out next week, so definitely
Speaker 1: yes for that. It's going to be it's very important,
Speaker 1: all right, Bye bye