1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and Best 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel Cast. Hello, Welcome to 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my name 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: is Caitlin Darante, and this is our podcast in which 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: it's really long and it really seems like it's heading somewhere, 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: and then at the last second we tell you we're British. 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: O we it's go don of thieves heads will know. 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. Are there don of thieves heads 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: out there? I have to you know, there's there's a 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: lot of dad's out there. The But this is this 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: is our podcast about movies. It is we take an 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: intersectional feminist approach to analyzing movies, using the Bechdel Test 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: as a jumping off point, which, of course is a 16 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: the Bechtel Wallace Test. Our version of this test is 18 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: as follows. Uh, two people of a marginalized gender have 19 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: to have names, and they have to speak to each 20 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: other about something other than a man or at least 21 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: two lines. There is there is a next. I think 22 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: we just added a caveat though, because if it is yes, 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: Um Jackson and suddenly having a British accent, it does 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: automatically pass the Bechdel tests. There is correct, There are 25 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: of course, you know, it's a complicated, ongoing conversation about 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: it's always it's always evolving. It's yeah, it's always evolving, 27 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: it's always growing. Um. There's there's a lot of caveats 28 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: that we keep including, and that is yes. That is 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: a very important one. I think you'll agree. I agree, Um. 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: But today we are going to do something a little 31 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: different than we normally do, UM, because we have an 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: incredible guest, Um that we want to talk about her 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: most recent work before we kind of get into today's movie, 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: which is den of Thieves, Um, which is the longest 35 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: movie in the entire world. Even though it's not the 36 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: longest movie I've ever seen, it felt so long and 37 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: it is in like I don't I'm like it is. 38 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a copaganda Ganda trend for the 39 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: whole movie to appear like CPI a tone for reasons 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, yeah, certain subgenres of copaganda do that. Yeah, 41 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: it's a thing. But but first we we really wanted 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: to spotlight our guests where she's really amazing. So let's 43 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: let's get her in here. Yes, let's do it. She 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: is a freelance reporter. She is UH covering, has covered 45 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: currently being released a story in knock l a entitled 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: A Tradition of Violence the History of Deputy Gangs in 47 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. It's series Castle Welcome, Hi, welcome, 48 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: than so much for having me. Of course you being here, 49 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: We're yeah, we're super excited to talk to you about UM, 50 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: about your your work and this. It's going to be 51 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: thirteen parts, is that correct? Yeah, so that was our 52 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: original plan. Um. This week, UM, a bunch of information 53 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: was released about the band Too's gang on Monday. There 54 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: was some additional names attached to a lawsuit that was 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: brought by a deputy against UM the Bandito's Gang at 56 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: the East Los Angeles station. So that's sort of adding 57 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: to my plate. So that series might get a little 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: bit longer, just surpending on UM, you know what happens. 59 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: But as of now, Gas thirteen parts incredible. I mean, 60 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: as of as of this recording, five parts are out 61 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: and it's I mean, it's so well reported. Thank you 62 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: so much for for doing it. I know how much 63 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: you know labor had to have gone into it, and 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that our listeners UM sort 65 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: of have a baseline of knowledge of of what the 66 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: series is UM about. So could you tell us a 67 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: little bit about, UM how you know, how you went 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: about reporting this and UM kind of what the what 69 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: the arc of of what you're talking about in this 70 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: series is. Yeah. So I this started when I received 71 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: a list of litigation that the County of Los Angeles 72 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: keeps track of of cases that were brought where deputies 73 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: were alleged to be involved in deputy gangs. And from 74 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: that case, it's about sixty different cases totaling about fifty 75 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: five million dollar ers in settlements. UM I just started 76 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: looking into the different deputies that were involved in those cases, 77 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: and it turned out that they had been involved in 78 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: other shootings and other beatings and all other kinds of 79 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: UM crime. And from there, UM I started putting things 80 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: together and was able to UM sort of figure out 81 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: the history of deputy gangs in Los Angeles County. UM. 82 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: They've been in existence since at least the early nineteen seventies, 83 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: and over that time they have cost tax payers UM 84 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: at least a hundred million dollars in settlement money UM 85 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: from people that they have killed or beaten or otherwise 86 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: UM physically harmed. UM. The deputy gangs have a lot 87 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: of influence UM. They generally are UM. Their members are 88 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: in positions of power at different stations throughout the department, 89 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: so they can UM in charge of things like scheduling, UM, 90 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: who gets promoted, who UM goes out to, what call when? 91 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: Who gets back up, who doesn't UM. They essentially run 92 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: the department. UM. We know of about eighteen different gangs 93 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: UM that are present throughout the department. UM. There's probably 94 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: more that we don't know about UM, but we have 95 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: been able to come up with solid reporting on eighteen 96 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: different gangs, and we are releasing what we found in 97 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: this series that will be running through the end of 98 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: the month. It's I mean, it's so incredibly well reported 99 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: in the way that you're you're kind of laying it 100 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: out historically of how far things go back, and it 101 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: quickly becomes a very depressing UM. You know, what is 102 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: like the corkboard with five hundred strings attached. UM, because 103 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: there is I mean it, there's so much overlap in 104 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: the and you continue to see people who have murdered 105 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: people being promoted and UM that your piece room today 106 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: that I thought was fascinating and very bleak, was that internally, 107 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: any whistleblower who even attempted to um, to speak out 108 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: against something like that internally would be it seems like 109 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: consistently punished and never promoted. All right, So I go ahead, yeah, 110 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I was just gonna say that's the case 111 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: for most of the whistleblowers. I mean, there were some 112 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: cases that you know, I know about that unfortunately I 113 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: wasn't even able to report on because they're under protective seal. 114 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: That's UM an interesting element for a lot of these cases, 115 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, because a lot so many of them are settled. 116 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: Nine times out of ten they settle, a lot of 117 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: this information remains secret when it doesn't go to trial, 118 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: that stuff remains sealed, whereas when it does go to trial, 119 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 1: it becomes public record. So a lot of these whistleblowers, 120 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: when they settled, the Department had them sign agreements that 121 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: they cannot speak about the terms of their settlement, their case, UM, 122 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: you know, what their agreement was, etcetera. So there's a 123 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: lot more dirt there that unfortunately, it's it's very difficult 124 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: to find out about. That's like, and the fact that 125 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: you you have been able to report so much based 126 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: on what is available, which sounds like a fraction of 127 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: what actually has happened, speaks uh a lot. I'm curious 128 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: about the process of UM reporting this story UM, and 129 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: I feel like that it will be interesting to our 130 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: listeners as well. I mean, I think you're you're sort 131 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: of just referencing it. But what were the sort of 132 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: UM roadblocks you were coming up against in the process 133 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: of reporting this story over the past is it six months? Yeah? Okay, yeah, 134 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: I think probably the first UM roadblock UM one that 135 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: I was quickly able to get over thanks to the 136 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: help of knock l A is just the cost of 137 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: this stuff. I mean, all this stuff is public record, 138 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: but you still have to pay for it, and that 139 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: quickly adds up. UM. Just reporting this piece cost about 140 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars alone. UM. Yeah, and there's there's a 141 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: lot more that I want to continue to do, so 142 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: it will cost more money. But I think you know, 143 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: that's one thing that people don't really think about, is 144 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: you know, just like the access to this stuff. It's 145 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: it's very hard to get, Like for me a journalist, 146 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: like not to just like think how hard it might 147 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: be to a family that's trying to you know, navigate 148 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: the system and you know, get some kind of justice 149 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: for their loved one. Another roadblock that I ran up 150 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: against is just UM. You know, these files have a 151 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: habit of strangely disappearing UM. Even though these records are 152 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: supposed to be kept UM, several of them had been 153 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: destroyed when I went down to pick them up UM, 154 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: and I never really got a full explanation of that. UM. 155 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: The clerks that it had been a mistake or UM 156 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: some unusual occurrence. I believe it was the term that 157 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: he used. But there were several files that UM had 158 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: been destroyed or they just couldn't locate that they were 159 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: supposed to be in the courthouse, and when I went 160 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: down there, the clerk just couldn't find them. UM. There 161 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: have also I've also had UM just like crazy sort 162 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: of scenarios happened when I've tried to pick things up, 163 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Like I was trying to pick up something that was 164 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: on micro film, and the the person working told me 165 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,479 Speaker 1: that the water main in the basement of the courthouse 166 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: had broken and destroyed all the micro film and I 167 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: would have to write a letter to the county UM 168 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: explaining why I needed it, and then the county would 169 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: decide whether or not to grant my request. UM. And 170 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: that's something that I'm still dealing with. But yeah, it 171 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: can be. It can be really crazy trying to just 172 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,599 Speaker 1: like deal with it's you know, getting your hands on 173 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: public records. There's always some like random obstacle that will 174 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: pop up in your way, and it's not always clear 175 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: why that's happening. Yeah, it's always, I mean, it is always. 176 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: So it doesn't feel like it should be legal to 177 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: charge such high rates to access what are I mean? 178 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: Then it's almost like, well I hesitate to even call 179 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: it public records if they're if they're not available um 180 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: to anybody. And introducing that cost barrier is such a 181 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: huge thing, and it sounds like, um, you know, based 182 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: on what you're just describing that it's a full time job, 183 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: like getting your hands on on these records. And it's 184 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: of course especially with UM with families and friends of 185 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: people who have been victimized by the police. They like, 186 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: not everyone has that time, you know, it's like everyone 187 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: has a live their lives, and that's UM so frustrating. 188 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that you were able to, you know, 189 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: kind of get as much as as you did, but 190 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: it sounds incredibly frustrating and complicated. UM oh yeah, oh yeah. 191 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: You have to like make appointments to go down there. Um. 192 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: Everything is time limited because of COVID protocols UM, which 193 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: adds a whole other layers. Sometimes if your record is 194 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: UM past a certain year, UM, they just won't give 195 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: it to you. UM. And that's something that I'm dealing 196 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: with right now. There are some records that I wanted 197 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: that they're past a certain cutoff date, and because that 198 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: they're in a room that is reserved for old records, 199 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: I've been told that they're just not going into that 200 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: room because of coronavirus and there is no end date 201 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: to COVID, So they're telling me that there's theoretically no 202 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: date that they'll be going into that room, which is illegal. UM. 203 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: But you know, like I said, you get all kinds 204 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: of crazy things when you're when you're trying to navigate that. Yeah. Especially, 205 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: it's like I don't even understand that argument of like, oh, 206 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: coronavirus is lurking in that no one goes into like 207 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't make it sounds like an excuse. It sounds 208 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: like a lot of these quote public records are like 209 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: public with a lot of caveats. Yeah. Um, to get 210 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: into a little more, I I really um appreciated how 211 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: at the beginning of and we're gonna link um that 212 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: all the pieces for um, if you're listening the it 213 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: will be linked in the description of this episode. But um, 214 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: you open each um section by listing what the legal 215 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: definition of a gang is, and then um, each installment 216 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: sort of um, you know, unpacks another element or incident 217 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: um that the L A s. D. Gangs have committed. 218 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: Uh So I wanted to just read that definition because 219 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: I know that particularly it seems like older people sometimes 220 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: have difficulty wrapping their head around gangs within the police 221 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: and they're like, well, how how how could that be? 222 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: And you lay it out at the beginning and of 223 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: every single piece. Um, so it's oh my gosh, it's 224 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: under section one six point to two of the California 225 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: Penal Code. UM, a criminal gang is described as any 226 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: organization or group of three or more people that one 227 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: has a common name or identifying sign or symbol, two 228 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: has as one of its primary activities the commission of 229 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: one of the long list of California criminal offenses, and 230 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: three whose members have engaged in a pattern of criminal 231 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: gang activity, either alone or together. And so, of course 232 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: the sheriff's gangs you're reporting on very much, uh fit 233 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: that description. So I wanted to ask, just for our 234 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: listeners who aren't really aware, what are the kind of 235 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: through lines of activities it happened with in these gangs 236 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, just kind of common patterns that you 237 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: identified throughout the reporting process. Yeah. The the one, you know, 238 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: commission of crime that we've seen in you know, almost 239 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: every gang that we've covered is of course murder. Um. No, 240 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: we've also seen extortion of other deputies in the station. Um. 241 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: They'll hold these what they call fund raisers where it's 242 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: unclear where the money is exactly going, and they'll pressure 243 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: their colleagues into giving them money. UM. Paul Tanaka actually 244 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: UM had this special cigar smoking club at the Sheriff's 245 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: headquarters and you could get in if you gave them 246 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars. Um, that's a big one. They regularly 247 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: beat people up. Um, I've heard accounts of rape. UM. 248 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: So I mean, like it's really anything mhm. It's in 249 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: particularly in the I think it's the third piece Lynwood's 250 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Worst Nightmare that details the crimes of the Vikings Gang 251 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: is you know, have heavy content warning, but was just 252 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: so completely eye opening for me that those were crimes 253 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: that I had never heard about before, and it seems 254 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: like it was just they were absolutely rampaging and targeting 255 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: you know, black and brown people in Lyndwood NonStop for 256 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: for weeks and months. Yeah. Yeah, that the Lynwood stuff. 257 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean that that went on for years. And one 258 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: thing that really um makes me really upset is just 259 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: hearing about, um, hearing from some of the deputies that 260 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: participated in this stuff. Um. You know, one guy that 261 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: I wrote about in in that piece was Cliff Yates, 262 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: who went on to be involved in the beating death 263 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: of a man at Men's Central Jail about twelve years ago, 264 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: almost to the day. That man's name was John Horton 265 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: UM and Cliff Yates, UM. You know, he went on 266 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: to have he was promoted within the department. Um, he 267 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: retired and receives a six figure pension. UM. He lives 268 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: in Florida, and as far as I know, he was 269 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: never really disciplined UM for any of the incidents that 270 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm that I know that he was involved in. UM. 271 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: He's written a book where he details his career as 272 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer over the past thirty years. UM. 273 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: He describes police work as hunting for humans UM. And 274 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm very frightened really by how someone 275 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: can view UM their work in a in a way 276 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: like that, Like how they can look at the terror 277 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: that they inflicted on a community and such a in 278 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: such a distorted light. It really frightens me. Absolutely. Yeah, 279 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: it's in the I don't know, it's just the normalization 280 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: of that attitude. It's like, I don't know, something that 281 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: you you know, but then just just hearing it come 282 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: out of someone's mouth, and to know that they're being 283 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: they're absurdly wealthy, you know, and then they're like still 284 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: living on the taxpayers dime after not being held to 285 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: account for murder, and and now they're you know, living 286 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: in a mansion in Florida. Whatever it is that UM 287 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: that they're doing. Yeah, I I Um, that piece in particular, 288 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: really was I mean, it's disturbing like that, the way 289 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: in the in the way that it's laid out. UM. Yeah, 290 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: I guess another question that I had, were there any 291 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: I guess in the process of reporting this, Were there 292 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: any moments where you truly like, were there is there 293 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: like one moment that kind of sticks out when interview 294 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: just um, yeah, because I know it was such a 295 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: long process. Um. God, I would say probably there are 296 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: several moments that stick out, And I would say the 297 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: ones that really stick with me are when I contact 298 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: a family to tell them that the person that killed 299 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: their loved one killed somebody else. Um. And that really sucks. Um. 300 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: And that's probably like what sticks with me the most, 301 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: just being that like bearer of bad news um, and 302 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: just like having to tell them that, you know, like 303 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: your case didn't really make a difference. Um, nothing changed, 304 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: This person was promoted, this person is still on the 305 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: streets like doing the same ship that he did to 306 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: your family. UM. And that just like really brings the 307 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: story home to me. I mean that's like, you know 308 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: why I did it. I Mean, this stuff has been 309 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: going on for years. I've been hearing about gangs in 310 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's apartment since I was a kid. Um, So 311 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: you know, I hope that by talking about it and 312 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: bringing more attention to this, we can hopefully see some 313 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: changes in the structure. Absolutely, I mean I I sincerely 314 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: hope that this series ends up having a demonstrable effect 315 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: because there's there's just just so so much. It's overwhelming. 316 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: Um yeah, I'm I'm And that sounds incredibly emotionally taxing 317 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: for for everyone. I mean yeah, for for for you 318 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: and for the families, and it's just absolutely brutal. But 319 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad that Um it's you know, there's been 320 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: light shed on it, um, and so I guess, uh 321 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: to to kind of close out unless there's stuff we 322 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: haven't touched on that you would like to Um, what 323 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: do you you know? But by the time this series 324 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: has concluded, what do you hope, um, people take away 325 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: from it or what effect do you hope that that 326 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: the series has? Ah? Well, I mean, I'd love everyone 327 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County who have read the series. I 328 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: don't know how realistic that is, but that that would 329 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: be my dream. I would love everyone in l A 330 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: County just to be aware of what's happening in the 331 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: department these you know, I think I really think this 332 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: has been able to be an open secret for the 333 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: past fifty years, and I think we really knew people 334 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: actively engaged and talking about it. UM. That would be 335 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: my primary goal. I'd love to I'd love to see 336 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: the Board of Supervisors UM call me in to talk 337 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: about my reporting. And you know, I'd love to help 338 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: them with an investigation. I'd love to assess, like any 339 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: anyone with an investigation, I'm happy to turn over what 340 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: I know. UM, That's what I'd love to see. UM. 341 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: I think at the very minimum, there needs to be 342 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: an audit of the department. UM. At the minimum. And 343 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: there are people that have been in this space for 344 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 1: a lot longer than I have that have come up 345 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: with some great solutions. UM that you know, if people 346 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: are so inclined to engage with that, like, I'd really 347 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: recommend checking them out, like to check the Shaff Coalition 348 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: for example. UM. Yeah, I'd love to see more people 349 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: tapped in with them. UM. That's what I'd love to see. Yeah, absolutely, 350 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: And I would recommend. I mean, even if you live 351 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: outside of l A County, it's the lessons and that 352 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: you and and what you can take away from having 353 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: read this series is applicable to anyone. UM, you know, 354 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: living in a place with the Sheriff's Department like the 355 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: l A s D is egregiously bad. But it's not 356 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: like you know, these crimes are beholden to l A 357 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: like that. It's it's widely applicable reporting that everyone should 358 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: definitely UM check out. And and I do think it's 359 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: UM it's great that not l A was able to 360 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: help fund and publish it as well, because it seems 361 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: like the kind of report that you know, it could 362 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: only be done at an independent news source where it 363 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: seems like there's always so many UM blockages when you 364 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: when you're working with a huge mainstream source, which I 365 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: know you have. UM, I just think that they don't 366 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: want to do it to be perfect really honest with 367 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: you speak to that. I'm so curious, UM what your 368 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: thoughts on that are, because I know you've worked on 369 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of both both sides of that line. Yeah, I mean, 370 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,479 Speaker 1: just to be candid, I mean, this information has been 371 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: out there for the past fifty years. Major institutions have 372 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: had the funding UM to go after this information. They've 373 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: had the access to the information. UM. The reason that 374 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: they didn't do it, and from where I'm standing is 375 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: it just wasn't an interest. This affects black and brown people, 376 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: This affects low income people, and those aren't communities that 377 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: newspapers have seen or not just newspapers, but that major 378 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: media outlets have not viewed as a priority. UM really ever, 379 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: So that's why it didn't get done. It's the same 380 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: reason that the Grim Sleeper UM, a serial killer in 381 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: South Los Angeles was able to terrorize the community for 382 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: almost forty years and kill with impunity that never really 383 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: got any news coverage. It's the same reason why deputy 384 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: gangs in those same neighborhoods don't get any news coverage. Absolutely, yeah, 385 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: I thank you, thank you for your insight on that too, 386 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: because it's UM. It's also it's shocking just reading through 387 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: your reporting, how you know like it it would have 388 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: taken reporting and funding, but like you say, it has 389 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: it's not like there's ever been any shortage of available 390 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: funds to do that. It's the willingness and UM prioritizing 391 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: uh black and brown people in reporting, which just doesn't 392 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: seem to ever happen in mainstream reporting. Um, yeah, I 393 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: is there is there anything else you want to hit 394 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: on before we kind of start transitioning into den of 395 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: thieves stuff. Yeah, I would just say, um, you know, 396 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: please check out the series, and you know, we've talked 397 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: about how expensive this is. If you're so inclined, like, 398 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: please send a dollar to to the knock Patreon. I'd 399 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: love to continue doing this research and you know, any 400 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: help I can get as much appreciated. Absolutely, and I 401 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: guess I should full disclosure and say that I right 402 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: there as well. I was like, I don't know what 403 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: the right point in the episode to put it is, 404 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: but it's now. Um yeah, thank you, yeah, thank you 405 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: again for doing this reporting and putting in all of 406 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: this time and effort to shed light on this thing 407 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: that I'll admit I really didn't know anything about until 408 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: I started reading Your Peace. I knew about, you know, 409 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: corruption and racism and violence inflicted on different communities by 410 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement, but I didn't know the extent to which 411 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: they were like things you could, like you can classify 412 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: as gangs operating in the sheriff's department. So I was 413 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, well, I mean it makes sense, 414 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: but but I just didn't know anything about it. So, yeah, 415 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: thank you again for for doing this reporting and shedding 416 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: light on this. Yeah, it's my pleasure so to kind 417 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: of transition into what into like getting us to den 418 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: of thieves stuff, because there's so much to talk about their. UM. 419 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: We really want to talk with you about how cops 420 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: are presented to us in media. It's something we've talked 421 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: about in this on the show before, but I don't 422 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: think extremely in depth. UM. And Yeah, I guess I'm 423 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: just kind of curious of your um, your opinion on 424 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: how particularly movies for our purposes, but how media UM 425 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: has very deliberately shaped what our view of cops and 426 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: and in this case specifically UM, the Sheriff's Department has 427 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: been over the years. Yeah, I've been watching a lot 428 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: of cop um media UM while reporting this piece. UM, 429 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: I've just really been living with it. My favorite Hell, 430 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I don't know. I've really 431 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: like solidly in like corrupt cop world. My favorite show 432 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: right now is The Shield, which is UM a whole 433 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: other thing. UM. But yeah, I one thing that really 434 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: fascinates me about how cops are presented and all of 435 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: these cases is that they're Um, they're always sort of 436 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: given this um personality of like the the hard charging, 437 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: like badass rule breaker. Um, they're never like we never 438 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: hear a story about a quote unquote like good cop 439 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: who like does every thing by the book. Um, you know, 440 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: has like a good relationship with their community. It's always 441 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: these like assholes that are shooting everybody and like that's 442 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: accepted as really cool in the world that they live in. 443 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: It's so and it's like even there's a moment in 444 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: then of Thieves that I will get to where it's like, yeah, 445 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: if if a cop is like doing something by the book, 446 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: like everyone just calls him a dork and they like 447 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: call him a loser and make fun of his shoes 448 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: and then continue to uh break the law, it's yeah wild. Yeah. 449 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: The framing of a lot of like just movies and 450 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: media about cops is yeah, you're totally right. It's like 451 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: these you know, I don't play by the ruse kind 452 00:29:53,200 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: of cowboys that they're they're but they're still framed is 453 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: like the heroes who do this competent police work and 454 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: who saved the day and who catch the quote bad 455 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: guys and you know, just like all the framing of this, 456 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: um which it is like straight up propaganda this you 457 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: know this, And I didn't even again I'll admit that, 458 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: like I didn't. I fell for it for so long, 459 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: and um, it's just like oh God. And then and 460 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: then of Thieves, I mean, we'll get into it, but 461 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: it's it's doing a lot of the same stuff that 462 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: we've seen before, except it's five hours long and like 463 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: so absurdly, I who and then he's British at the end, 464 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: and then and then I feel like we all really 465 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: learned something. Um, well, should we take a quick break 466 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: and then come back and get into the movie? All right, 467 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: we'll be back in a moment, and we're back. We're back. 468 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I I donna Thieves. Is I mean 469 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: ripe for discussion of how cops and how specifically the 470 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: L A s D is portrayed in mediate series. You 471 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: probably you definitely know way way more about this than 472 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: we do. Is this, does the L A s D 473 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: is are they? Like? I know, the L A p 474 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: D comes up in movies and media constantly, but does 475 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: the l S l A s D come up very 476 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: much in in media that you know of? Yeah, I've 477 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: actually started compiling a list of m l A law 478 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: enforcement in media as far as l A s D 479 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: to my knowledge, Um, they have a documentary about them 480 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: called l A County seven that was produced for TV 481 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: I believe in the late eighties or early nineties. Den 482 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: of Thieves of course. Um. And there's a recent movie 483 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: out with Jared Leto and Denzel Washington called The Little Things, 484 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: which and Robbie Malick, and that's about the Los Angeles 485 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's apartment as well. Is there anything you've seen 486 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: that you feel like? I haven't seen The Little Things, 487 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: Um yet I forgot that it came out, honestly, but 488 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: like it is. Are there any portrayals of the l 489 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: A s D that you think have been appropriately critical 490 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: that has come out or is it mostly kind of 491 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: like badass cop stuff? Um? I've never seen anything critical 492 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: of law enforcement in a movie or television show. I mean, 493 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: I like to say that this shield is satire. Um, 494 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: But my girlfriend just sort of rolls her eyes at 495 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: me and walks away when I bring that conversations at 496 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: the table the Galaxy brain take, Yeah, I was thinking 497 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: of I was going through just kind of like the 498 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: list of episodes we've done that I was like, oh there, Yeah, 499 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: the protagonists of this movie is like a night Like 500 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: even movies like fucking Fargo. You're like, oh no, I've 501 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: I've been duped into thinking that, like, well cop is 502 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: a woman now, so it's all all good. It's like, 503 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: oh yeah. The media around a sheriff's department, not the 504 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: Los Angeles one but that. But that I've been most 505 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: exposed to has been Reno on One, which is a 506 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: show that I do love and think is very funny, 507 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: but it's like one of the things that duped me 508 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this show about these sheriffs, they're 509 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: all such lovable goofs t he and uh that's probably 510 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: not how they actually are in real life. Yeah, there's 511 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: it's it's it is over like it's genuinely overwhelming of 512 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: how much copaganda there is and how many genres it spans, 513 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: because like you're saying, Caitlin, like, there's cop comedies, and 514 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: there's like you know, there's kind of the the Den 515 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: of Thieves genre of like Sepia toned intense glorification of 516 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: being a horrible cop, and then there's like the procedurals. 517 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: There's just there's it's so pervasive that it's I don't know, yeah, 518 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: I got um. I became overwhelmed by it. And then 519 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: there's literally the show Cops, which is like every um my, 520 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: my uncle's love it so much and it is so 521 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: harmful and scary. Um. But yeah, so today we're we're 522 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: kind of zoning in. Um um. I guess this is 523 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: like more of what I think of automatically when I 524 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: think of copaganda, is like the den of thieves, vibe 525 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: of the badass cop who he can't leave his work 526 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: at work. And there were like moments in this movie 527 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: where I was I guess I was like kind of 528 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: like you watching the Shield series, where like are they 529 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: are they trying to say something critical? But then in 530 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: the next thing you're like, oh, just kidding, just kidding, 531 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: just kidding, He's amazing. He just drinks a little bit. 532 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: Like it's just so it's a lot, let's talk about it. Yeah. Um, well, 533 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: I guess is the um Should I just do the recap? Then? Well, yeah, discuss, yes, 534 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: feel free to jump in during the recap. I can't 535 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: tell if this movie has a really convoluted plot or 536 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: if it's like three sentences long. The plot doesn't make 537 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: any sense. There are several like key plot holes, like 538 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,479 Speaker 1: the first being that oh, Jackson like couldn't have joined 539 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps with a juvenile criminal record, Like I 540 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: didn't think of that. Yeah. Also, there's so many like 541 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: convenient things that happen, like the ordering of the food 542 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: and getting delivered and the exact right, like I don't know. Yeah, 543 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: So here's the story that doesn't make a lot of sense. 544 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: Um by Christian Buda Gast. I like to like that. 545 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: It's it's an outtour piece by Mr Christian Buda Gast 546 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: and we're like who um. So the movie opens with 547 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: like text on the screen with statistics that say, um, 548 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: that in Los Angeles, uh, which is the bank robbery 549 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: capital of the world. Um, banks are robbed times a year. Uh. 550 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: We see then an armored car being robbed. The cups 551 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: show up. There's a big shootout between the gang of 552 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: robbers or the Den of Thieves and yeah, them and 553 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: the police and the Den of thieves managed to escape 554 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: with the armored car and the their leader is Ray Merriman. UM. 555 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Fifty cent is also there playing a character whose name 556 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: I never figured out. Um, my favorite I heard about 557 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: the fifty cent character is that at one point because 558 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: he like works out in his garage and you see 559 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: he has a stadium arcadium red hot chiliea yester. I 560 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: was like, wait, does that get's in my notes? I 561 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 1: was like, whose poster is that the stadium arcadium? My mind? 562 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: I was like his cent my brother, Like what going on? 563 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: I loved that little character detail. He's a red hot 564 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: chili pepper. His fan his name Hagan. Let me look 565 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: at IMDb. His name is oh ensign Laveau. Yeah. Um. 566 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: And then Donnie is also there. That's o'she Jackson Jr. Um. 567 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: There's also this guy named Bosco, so that's that's the 568 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: Den of Thieves. Then we cut to big nick a K. 569 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler himself. Wait that that that is? Who? Oh 570 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: my gosh, that completely slipped my mind. Yeah, it's the 571 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 1: unfortunate truth that he played the Phantom of the Opera 572 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: really badly. Holy sh it. I don't know who I 573 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: thought it was, but I did not remember it being 574 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler. Wow, um, and settle you with that. I'm broken, 575 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: so broken right now. M Gerard Butler and I I 576 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: was an extra on a movie that he was the 577 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: star of. If anyone remembers. I think it was called 578 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: The Bounty Hunter for Anniston's also in it. Um, I 579 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: was an extra in that movie. You're welcome, everybody, congratulations. Um, 580 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler and I did make eye contact on that 581 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: set for a brief moment, and um, that is my 582 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: that's my story about Gerard Butler. Anyway, his career is 583 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: very um all over the place. There's just like a 584 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: lot going because wasn't he in that movie p S. 585 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: I Love You? Is that was that him? Or remember 586 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: that Irish guy? Yes? Oh he was like dead husband 587 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: and damn I that movie was really forced down my 588 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: throat in like middle school or whenever I came in. 589 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: He's also in that. There's a rom com it's called 590 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: like The Ugly Truth or something with with Katherine Heigel. 591 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 1: I want to say, isn't it He's It's just he's 592 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: got what we're saying wild. Um, yeah, he's He's. It's 593 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: but it's like he really he's bad. He's been bad 594 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: in every genre. It's really interesting. He's a great example. 595 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, he's He's really blown it in so 596 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: many different genres. I almost respect it. Yeah. Okay, So anyway, 597 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: Big Nick is the head of Major Crimes of the 598 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. I think, I don't know what 599 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: anyone's title is, but he's in charge of this investigation. 600 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: He goes to the crime scene. We learned that the 601 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: armored truck that the den of thieves stole was empty, 602 00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: and so they're like, well, why would they steal an 603 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: empty ruck? What's going on? And how did they know 604 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: about the drop offs and the roots and all this stuff? Um, 605 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: And then they know of Merriman. Merriman if what is 606 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: his name, Mary Mary Mary Merriman and his band of 607 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: Merryman to either of you remember he was like in 608 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of Disney Channel original movies, Ryan Merriman. He 609 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: played the little leprechron in Luck of the Irish. That's 610 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: who I was thinking of the entire movie. That actors 611 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: in a bunch of d cops he said, like old 612 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: old ones, like he was in Luck of the Irish. 613 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: He I think he was decapitated in Final Destination three, 614 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: amongst other Those are his top two credits I could 615 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: think of. Of course, Wow, Okay, so they know about 616 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: Merriman and they think that he might behind it. He 617 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: might be like behind this rubbery. Where did they get 618 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: his name from? Like, we don't literally just were like, 619 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: what if it's Merriman? Like I did not even think. 620 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: I was like, I guess I just didn't question it. 621 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: But they didn't, like they just they just knew about it. Yeah, 622 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: he's famous. He's a famous den of thief. Um. So 623 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: he So then Nick pays a visit to Donnie, who 624 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: the cops um you know, to be an associate of Merriman. 625 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how they know that either, but anyway, ah, 626 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: Nick and his deputies interrogate Donnie, and Donnie breaks and 627 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: tells them that he is, in fact kidnap. They kidnap him, Yeah, 628 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: they they him. They kidnap him, take him to a 629 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: hotel room where they're partying with some sex workers. Unceremoniously. 630 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even even think they got 631 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: featured extra, Like they unceremoniously are they're dismissed from the 632 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: scene without ever having said a word. They're just and 633 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: they were just guided out and you're like, oh, okay, 634 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 1: And they are the first women who even appear on 635 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: the screen in the entire movie. And it takes about 636 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: twenty minutes for them to show up. So until then, 637 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: it's just a lot of toxic men, and then it's 638 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: still a lot of toxic men after that. But sometimes 639 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: you see a woman sprinkled throughout a scene. Um, okay, 640 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, Nick abducts Uh and interrogates Donnie, and Donnie 641 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: breaks and tells him that he is a driver from Merriman, 642 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: and he tells him about a previous job they pulled together, 643 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,919 Speaker 1: and then Nick, let's Donnie go, and he's like, we'll 644 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: be in touch. Another thing I want to bring up 645 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: is that in that scene he shows Donnie his regulator tattoo, Which, Okay, 646 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: let's let's because I felt like those early scenes were 647 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: the most specific to the l A. S D and 648 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: break it down for us. Yeah, so I mean that 649 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: whole interrogation thing, like I've read through um like reviews 650 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: that the county puts out of incidents that officers get 651 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: in trouble for it, and that's like not too far 652 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: off from some real instances that I've read about with 653 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: l A County Sheriff's deputy is um the tattoo, I mean, 654 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: that's a real deputy gang. The Regulators is a deputy 655 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: gang that operated out of the Century Station. Um, and yeah, 656 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: I mean all of that is very very true, looking 657 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: very not true, far from reality. Um, that's that's how 658 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: these deputy gangs go down. It's so and it's it's 659 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: like the way it's presented is so bizarre too, because it, 660 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: especially after reading your reporting, you're like, oh, this is 661 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: something that could conceivably have happened, but we're not supposed 662 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: to think it's bad. Like it's the way that it's 663 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: framed to the viewer is so manipulative and bizarre, even 664 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: though it seems like it's showing some pretty true to life, 665 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: um interaction potential interactions. Yeah, yeah, I almost like missed 666 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: it the first time I watched the movie. He was 667 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: just like, see my tattoo where what you might call 668 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: part of a gang. And then yeah, at least we're 669 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 1: a clique, which is what which is the term that 670 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 1: you know people in law enforcement currently is when they're 671 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: talking about these gangs, like they're very happy to admit 672 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: most of the time under oath that they're part of 673 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: a clique a deputy click. Um. So yeah, I mean 674 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,440 Speaker 1: that was very true to life. Two things that he 675 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: said that I wrote down was we just shoot you 676 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: it's less paperwork, um, which I mean yeah, I mean 677 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: attorneys have told me as much that it's easier for 678 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: these deputies to kill people rather than have them live. 679 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: When they live. They've had an attorney say to me, 680 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: that's the deputy's worst nightmare because they can challenge the 681 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 1: police as narrative of them being in fear for the life, 682 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: and it just makes things a lot harder. So yeah, 683 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: that attitude is very true to life. Um. He also 684 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: tells Donnie, you're not the bad guys we are, which 685 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 1: is again it's like it's so it like made my 686 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 1: head hurt, um Like, because if you see that on paper, 687 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, that seems to be pretty accurate. 688 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: But the way that the movie frames it and the 689 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: where that like exists in context with the rest of 690 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: the story makes it seem like this like bizarre joke. 691 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's so I kept, yeah, I kept 692 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: expecting like the arc of the rest of the story 693 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: to go very very differently, that like you'd see more 694 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: examples of them being the bad guys in a way 695 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 1: that like the movie is actually framing them as being 696 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: the bad guys, but the movie frames them as like Nope, 697 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: they're good at police, and they're the people you're supposed 698 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: to be rooting for. I think I don't know who 699 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be rooting for in this movie, actually 700 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: because I found no one to be redeemable. No, no 701 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: one was redeemable. But I mean I definitely wasn't rooting 702 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: for the regulators. Um. I mean I think as far 703 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 1: as like when we're looking at like who did the 704 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: most harm? Like, I think the den of thieves like 705 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: hurt a lot less people, right. I think Donnie's worst 706 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,800 Speaker 1: crime was, you know, giving those two poor women some 707 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 1: expired Chinese hoods. It does seem like they were mostly 708 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean it was like they were the 709 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: crimes were victimless. They were taking money. Oh maybe that's wait. 710 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 1: I just had a moment. I think I know why 711 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,360 Speaker 1: he's called merry men. Is it like, isn't that a 712 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: Robin hood thing? Robin and taking from the rich and 713 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: giving to the Oh, my seventh grade English teacher is 714 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: so th hells right now? Um yeah, it's like that 715 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: they were not hurting anybody in there, or at least originally, 716 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: it seems like, I mean, the regulators are Throughout the 717 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: plot um, like hurting people, at least if they you know, 718 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: like you're introduct like your introduction to o'sh Jackson in 719 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: any details him being abducted and physically harmed and all 720 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: sorts of offensive, like they say racist stuff to him, 721 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,839 Speaker 1: they say homophobic stuff to him. They it's just they 722 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: locked his body in a really weird way. It's so 723 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: like there. But then the marketing for this movie, so 724 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: I think that that was I would be really curious 725 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: to know the the editing process for a script like this, 726 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,399 Speaker 1: or like if the original draft of this script could 727 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: have potentially been more ambiguous, I guess, than than what 728 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: you kind of end up with. But the marketing definitely 729 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: wants you to think good guys versus bad guys, Like 730 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,320 Speaker 1: even down to the way that the poster is designed, 731 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: it's the bad guys are like in like their upside down, 732 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: and the good guys a k a. As the movie 733 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,239 Speaker 1: would have you believe that the regulators are like in 734 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,560 Speaker 1: the kind of dominant position. And I was even watching, 735 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 1: I was curious what the press tour for this movie was, like. Um, 736 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,400 Speaker 1: so I watched and it was mostly just like fift 737 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: and Gerard Butler being friends in a way that was 738 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 1: like I don't need to watch this, um, but I 739 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: watched them. But but they would also present the story, 740 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: uh in that way, like when introducing the movie, it's like, oh, 741 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's like a good guy bad guy. It's 742 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,960 Speaker 1: kind of like Heat a movie I've never seen but 743 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,760 Speaker 1: I know is about cops. Another long boring like Tuk 744 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: that movie. Ah, but but I just found it, like yeah, 745 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 1: like that this at least the marketing narrative for this movie, 746 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,280 Speaker 1: even though there are lines like we are the bad guys, 747 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:15,360 Speaker 1: is that the regulators are in fact the good guys, 748 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 1: or that's the pitch. It's very it's so it made 749 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,919 Speaker 1: my head hurt. And part of what like and we'll 750 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,240 Speaker 1: talk about this too, but the well, what's what happens 751 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,920 Speaker 1: next in the story is that um Nick's his wife 752 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: leaves him because he's been cheating on her. But I 753 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: feel like the women are there too, like humanize Big 754 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: Nick a bit and like make us feel empathy or 755 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: try to make the audience feel empathetic towards him. Um 756 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: So that's that's happening. He's being divorced. Um And then meanwhile, Merriman, 757 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: Donny and the rest of the den of thieves, UH 758 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 1: start make start making plans to rob the Los Angeles 759 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,359 Speaker 1: branch of the Federal Reserve, which is the only bank 760 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,279 Speaker 1: in l A that's never been successfully robbed because it's 761 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:18,279 Speaker 1: under such tight security. And their plan is that an 762 00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: average of thirty million dollars in cash gets destroyed every day, 763 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: which I was curious if that's true, because if it is, 764 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:38,919 Speaker 1: what a horrifying fact um A great idea, just there's 765 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: literally So they're planning to rob this thirty million dollars 766 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: in cash on this particular day and it gets destroyed 767 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,839 Speaker 1: because it's considered like old and unfit um, which means 768 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,840 Speaker 1: that it's untraceable and no one's going to be looking 769 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:02,240 Speaker 1: for it, so they're going to try to steal it. Um. Meanwhile, 770 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: Nick and his crew of deputies start tailing uh Merriman's 771 00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,400 Speaker 1: den of thieves. They're fucking with them, They're letting them 772 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: know you we're on to you. Uh. And then Donnie 773 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 1: is kind of playing both sides. You know, He's he's 774 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: telling the cops stuff about this heist. He's telling Merriman 775 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 1: that he's been talking to the cops. You know, he's 776 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,160 Speaker 1: kind of in the middle This is where the part 777 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: of the movie that I began to grow very confused, Like, 778 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,080 Speaker 1: there's the middle of this movie is really long, and 779 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't I don't. I didn't understand what was going 780 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: on well enough to tell when someone was lying about 781 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: what was going on, and UM ended up really becoming distressed. 782 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:58,800 Speaker 1: I did not know what right. And then okay, so 783 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,120 Speaker 1: then the before the big heist, the Den of Thieves 784 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,839 Speaker 1: rob a small local bank, which Big Nick has been 785 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,680 Speaker 1: tipped off about, so he heads there. Um, but the robbers, 786 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,719 Speaker 1: the Den of Thieves, they don't do their usual thing. 787 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:20,279 Speaker 1: This time. They make demands, they take and kill hostages, 788 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: or so we are led to believe. Um, but wait 789 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: a minute. Turns out that this was all to create 790 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,839 Speaker 1: a diversion to distract the cops and give the Den 791 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: of Thieves time to pull off the real heist at 792 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:39,040 Speaker 1: the Federal at the Federal Reserve, which Nick eventually figures 793 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: out is what's happening, And then we see the heist 794 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,960 Speaker 1: in progress. They use the armored truck that they stole 795 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,920 Speaker 1: to pose as And I don't know if they're like 796 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,759 Speaker 1: guys who work for the Federal Reserve or it's like 797 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,320 Speaker 1: some entity that like drops the money off at the 798 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,360 Speaker 1: serve from the banks. So they pretend to be these guys. 799 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,960 Speaker 1: They drop off the money that they stole from this 800 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 1: small bank um at the Federal Reserve. Donnie is inside 801 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 1: one of the containers of money and then we see 802 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,600 Speaker 1: him do a bunch of heist stuff when when they 803 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: like a little cube, You're like, oh, it's nice. They 804 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 1: were like twenty minutes of this movie that I was like, oh, 805 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm this is because I love a heist movie. I 806 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,760 Speaker 1: love to watch a heist and I was I was like, Okay, 807 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: this is this is fun. I'm enjoying this. They they're 808 00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 1: cutting the power, you know, there's all that kind of 809 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:42,680 Speaker 1: heisty stuff fall very national treasure. It's exciting. Yeah. So 810 00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 1: then um, Donnie gets the money that was going to 811 00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,960 Speaker 1: be destroyed. He prevents it from being shredded. He puts 812 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: it in bags and then he throws it in I 813 00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,360 Speaker 1: guess like a trash shoot. And then all of the 814 00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: den of thieves managed to escape. Uh. They high jack 815 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: the dump truck and get the bags of money, but 816 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,560 Speaker 1: oh no, Big Nick and his deputies pick up Donnie. 817 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,360 Speaker 1: Then they find the rest of the robbers there's this 818 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,440 Speaker 1: huge shootout with all of the Den of thieves being 819 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,919 Speaker 1: It's like so many cars around them, Um, how many 820 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: civilian casualties were? Like it seemed like they're the highway 821 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 1: was full of people, but then all of a sudden 822 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,800 Speaker 1: there were only the four main cast members like it was. 823 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: It was was so confusing, I'm not sure. Um. So 824 00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: they kill all the car the deputy, the Sheriff's kill 825 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,200 Speaker 1: the den of thieves. But wait a minute, the money 826 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,799 Speaker 1: that they stole, it's not there. And then when Nick 827 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,320 Speaker 1: gets back to his car, Donnie has escaped because it 828 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,839 Speaker 1: turns out Donnie was the mastermind of the whole heigh 829 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,399 Speaker 1: He had been tricking everyone. He's the one who got 830 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,360 Speaker 1: the money. And then we cut to him in London 831 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,919 Speaker 1: with a British accent that I I Am not sure 832 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,680 Speaker 1: how authentic we're convincing it is, um, and he's you know, 833 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:21,760 Speaker 1: he's planning another heist. He goes diamond exchange drinks on me. Mates. 834 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,520 Speaker 1: You're like, okay, sure, so that's the story. Let's take 835 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,000 Speaker 1: another quick break and then we'll come back to discuss 836 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 1: car back. Um, I guess to start um series, we 837 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 1: we we sort of talked a little bit about the 838 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 1: the interrogation scene at the beginning of the movie already 839 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:57,320 Speaker 1: when they kidnapped Donnie. Um, were there other um elements Uh, regardless, 840 00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,319 Speaker 1: kind of I guess regardless to start of how they're 841 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,719 Speaker 1: being framed, But were there other specifics about the L 842 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,800 Speaker 1: A s. D. That jumped out to you in in 843 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,720 Speaker 1: the way UM that this movie is kind of written 844 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: and presented. Yeah, it was really just like sort of 845 00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,960 Speaker 1: like taken by like how many references to the gangs 846 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: that they were in this movie. I Mean there's that 847 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:24,160 Speaker 1: scene UM where he shows the tattoo and he's beating Donnie. UM. 848 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:28,640 Speaker 1: Donnie also makes reference to being incarcerated at Wayside UM, 849 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,840 Speaker 1: which is a facility that's home to another deputy gang 850 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: called the Wayside Whitey's, which UM is like a KKK 851 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,920 Speaker 1: type gang that regularly terrorizes UM black inmates. UM. So 852 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 1: that was also just sort of like huh okay, like 853 00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:52,439 Speaker 1: another open secret. UM. Gerard Butler big Nick when they're 854 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,480 Speaker 1: outside the bank and they're sort of running surveillance on 855 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,760 Speaker 1: this UM smaller bank that the den of Thieves is 856 00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 1: going to rob UM, he says that they let it 857 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: go down because the Dunafee has had to commit a 858 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 1: crime um in order for them to do something. As 859 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,280 Speaker 1: soon as they got out of the car with those 860 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:21,200 Speaker 1: assault rifles, the crime was being committed, which I mean 861 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,160 Speaker 1: it tracks um as far as the L A S 862 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,480 Speaker 1: d UM just sort of like you know, letting things 863 00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,880 Speaker 1: happen and stepping in, you know, when they think it 864 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,320 Speaker 1: will be to their advantage. There have been several cases 865 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,360 Speaker 1: like that that I've covered. Um. Yeah, that seemed very 866 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: realistic to me. Wow, it's it. So this movie is 867 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:49,120 Speaker 1: written and directed by Christian Gooda Gast, who is from 868 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,680 Speaker 1: what I can tell, he's soap opera nepotism and also 869 00:58:53,000 --> 00:59:00,280 Speaker 1: Caitlin relevant to our interest, the guy who plays John 870 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:05,280 Speaker 1: Jacob asked her in Titanic Christian Gourda Ghast is his son, 871 00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:11,320 Speaker 1: so he's also Titanic nepotism. Whoa John Jacobaster the richest 872 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,439 Speaker 1: man on the ship famously the riches man on the ship. 873 00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,280 Speaker 1: R I P. It's just kidding. He probably was horrible, UM, 874 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:25,440 Speaker 1: but Christian Goods is nepotism of that. UM. I would 875 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: be really curious to know where his because it does 876 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,400 Speaker 1: seem like you're saying series he's referencing a lot of 877 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,280 Speaker 1: hyper specifics UM and he grew up in l A. 878 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,360 Speaker 1: So I'm like, it maybe is some cultural osmosis going 879 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:44,200 Speaker 1: on there. And then I also read that UM there 880 00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,680 Speaker 1: was a former special agent that consulted on this movie 881 00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 1: as well, So it sounds like it's very possible that 882 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,920 Speaker 1: they had consulted someone who had been somehow affiliated with 883 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: the l A. S D to make this movie, which 884 00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,520 Speaker 1: sort of opens up something that I feel like we 885 01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 1: we've talked about in passing over the years, which is 886 01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,439 Speaker 1: that you know when you're writing about or when they're 887 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,600 Speaker 1: It's like often when there's movies that are about cops 888 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,360 Speaker 1: or especially about the military, UM consultants are brought on 889 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,040 Speaker 1: who are very pro cop and pro military, and it's 890 01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,760 Speaker 1: you never see consultants being brought on to a movie 891 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,960 Speaker 1: like this that have the same knowledge base but would 892 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:31,880 Speaker 1: be perhaps critical of murder, Like I feel like we 893 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 1: we hear that all the time with UM. I forget 894 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: what the what the job title is, but there's like 895 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:43,080 Speaker 1: a high ranking military person whose job is to work 896 01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,960 Speaker 1: with Hollywood and say, okay, you can use our tanks 897 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,960 Speaker 1: and transformers if you get a B and C. You know, 898 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:53,320 Speaker 1: sneaking into the movie, and it's such a traceable pattern 899 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,120 Speaker 1: that I would guess whatever consulting was done on this 900 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,320 Speaker 1: movie is kind of the same, the same thing as 901 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: going on year. Um. Yeah, I wish I knew more 902 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,800 Speaker 1: about the consulting process with this movie. There's it seems 903 01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: like people were really not interested in this movie because 904 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:13,520 Speaker 1: I couldn't find a lot about the production other than um, 905 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler love going on talk shows together and chatting. Um, 906 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,640 Speaker 1: that's all. But but yeah, I think that the consulting 907 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,840 Speaker 1: process on movies like this is really critical because it 908 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,880 Speaker 1: is like, it's bizarre that there's that level of specificity 909 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,240 Speaker 1: in a completely uncritical way. M Well, I would also 910 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,840 Speaker 1: argue that because I watched this movie for the first 911 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: time before I had read any of the parts of 912 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,160 Speaker 1: your piece on these Gangs in the Sheriff's Department in 913 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,800 Speaker 1: l A. And I don't know if I'm just dense, 914 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:56,440 Speaker 1: but like I again, I I was aware of like 915 01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,800 Speaker 1: just the trope of you know, cops in movies, you know, 916 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,040 Speaker 1: being these kind of hard ass I don't play by 917 01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:04,760 Speaker 1: the rules. I do my own thing, and that's how 918 01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 1: I catch the bad guys. Sort of just like mentalities, 919 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:12,400 Speaker 1: especially for the big Nick character, but like the references 920 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,440 Speaker 1: to the gang he's in, Like I just kind of 921 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: missed that, you know, I know he's like pointing out 922 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:20,800 Speaker 1: a tattoo, but I don't I don't know like what 923 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,520 Speaker 1: exactly that was in reference to. So even though there 924 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,960 Speaker 1: are these specific references, I think if you don't already 925 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,840 Speaker 1: have some kind of baseline of knowledge about these gangs 926 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: in sheriff's apartments, which I'd imagine the general public doesn't 927 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,920 Speaker 1: know that much about, which is why it's so important 928 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,360 Speaker 1: for everyone to read your writing series. But like I 929 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,880 Speaker 1: was just like, oh, and so I didn't even connect 930 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:50,320 Speaker 1: the dots really until after I had read the parts 931 01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,960 Speaker 1: that have been published so far of your writing. So, um, 932 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,160 Speaker 1: I guess I was. I ended up being just very 933 01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:04,000 Speaker 1: surprised that how not prized. But I was expecting, um, 934 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 1: if there are going to be these references in the movie, 935 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,320 Speaker 1: that it would that it would be more critical about it. 936 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,000 Speaker 1: But again, the framing of these of these deputy characters 937 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 1: in the movie is like, yeah, they're grizzled, they're rough 938 01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,360 Speaker 1: around the edges, they drink, they smoke, they cheat on 939 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,720 Speaker 1: their wives, they get divorced, you know, all these things, 940 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,360 Speaker 1: but ultimately, at the end of the day, they're good 941 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,520 Speaker 1: cops and they're doing good work and where you know, 942 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,600 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be rooting for them. And even though 943 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,920 Speaker 1: the three of us watching this movie are not rooting 944 01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:46,000 Speaker 1: for Big Nick and his deputies because of how we know, uh, 945 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,520 Speaker 1: like just all of the horror and terror and everything 946 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:56,000 Speaker 1: that cops inflicts on the communities they're supposed to be protecting. Um, 947 01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:59,920 Speaker 1: they are not redeemable to us. But again, I think 948 01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,800 Speaker 1: the movie is like framing them is like, Nope, these 949 01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,760 Speaker 1: are the good guys. See see how empathetic they are. Oh, 950 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:08,440 Speaker 1: don't you feel bad for him? He's crying because he 951 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,600 Speaker 1: can't see his daughter like that kind of stuff. Yeah. 952 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:17,880 Speaker 1: The way that daughters are bandied about in this goddamn 953 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,680 Speaker 1: movie is so it's it is like the you're referencing 954 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,440 Speaker 1: this earlier Caitlin. But yeah, the the way that uh, 955 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,640 Speaker 1: the women in this movie are used are generally too 956 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:34,000 Speaker 1: endeare you to uh male character, especially the daughters with 957 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,640 Speaker 1: juror Oh, my god, Gerard Butler, like my daughter and 958 01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,400 Speaker 1: my daughter and my daughter I'm so sick of Like 959 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,840 Speaker 1: he's like just God, I've my daughter culture we gotta 960 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,320 Speaker 1: kill it. It's so boring and manipulative in the way 961 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,200 Speaker 1: that it's kind of weaponized because you could, I mean, 962 01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,240 Speaker 1: you could take them my daughter of it all out 963 01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,120 Speaker 1: of Gerard Butler's storyline, and the only result of it 964 01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,400 Speaker 1: would be that you would like his character less, which 965 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:05,360 Speaker 1: this movie seems pretty invested in you, uh, remaining somehow 966 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,960 Speaker 1: like somewhat loyal to him. Um. And then you kind 967 01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,800 Speaker 1: of get a similar moment with fifty cents character where 968 01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,400 Speaker 1: I don't know in the way that the daughters are ustress. 969 01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,440 Speaker 1: It's just so corny and trophy too, because for fifty like, 970 01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,200 Speaker 1: this is my daughter's prom date. You better not be 971 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,640 Speaker 1: mean to my daughter or or all of my friends will. 972 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:33,480 Speaker 1: And then it's like, God, it's so corny. It's a 973 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:37,480 Speaker 1: scene we've seen a bazillion times. It's scary and possessive. 974 01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 1: And then he closes the door and it's a stadium 975 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:45,919 Speaker 1: arcadium poster and I'm like, and the daughter never comes back, 976 01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,280 Speaker 1: and like they never see her again. We don't even 977 01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:54,640 Speaker 1: know how the prom went. I was invested. Um. I 978 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: love how win Gerard Butler's daughter has a line on 979 01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,160 Speaker 1: screen her. The first thing she says to her other 980 01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: is what are you doing? Same valid question question, especially 981 01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,960 Speaker 1: after because his his his wife just said to him like, 982 01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,280 Speaker 1: you smell really bad. And then he got extremely close 983 01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,720 Speaker 1: to his very young daughter, and I was like, stinky 984 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,760 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler getting close to his kid to get I 985 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,640 Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I guess the one act of 986 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,320 Speaker 1: agency that a woman has in the whole movie is 987 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:32,320 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler's wife being like, Nope, we're getting out of here, um, 988 01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,880 Speaker 1: which again was something that I thought. I don't know 989 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,040 Speaker 1: why I kept like, I just like, there were a 990 01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 1: few moments where I'm like, oh, benefit of the doubt, 991 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: maybe this is going somewhere, and then it never was. 992 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:50,120 Speaker 1: But it's I thought it was interesting. I guess interesting 993 01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,240 Speaker 1: is as close as you'll get. But um, that they 994 01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,800 Speaker 1: gave Gerard Butler like a disastrous home life, and they 995 01:06:57,880 --> 01:06:59,640 Speaker 1: made it like the movie went really out of its 996 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: way to show that he was just a plague to 997 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,440 Speaker 1: everyone in his personal life, um, and that he was 998 01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,760 Speaker 1: pretty like unloved by his family, which I feel like 999 01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,160 Speaker 1: it is. I mean that that's doesn't necessarily happen in 1000 01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,400 Speaker 1: all copaganda movies. A lot of times you have like 1001 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:19,400 Speaker 1: the like a cop that has a very well structured 1002 01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,720 Speaker 1: home life and maybe he goes rogue a little bit 1003 01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,640 Speaker 1: and maybe he like focks around with other women, but 1004 01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:29,400 Speaker 1: he still has this like nuclear family unit. But that's 1005 01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,920 Speaker 1: not I mean, it's very much not the case for him. 1006 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:36,240 Speaker 1: I was wondering because there is such a well documented 1007 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:41,520 Speaker 1: high rate of domestic abuse and um coming from cops, 1008 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,600 Speaker 1: usually to their wives, but just to their spouses in general. 1009 01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,920 Speaker 1: I was like, is that where this is going? But 1010 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:53,680 Speaker 1: then it was It turns out it was going actually nowhere. Yeah, 1011 01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,320 Speaker 1: there's that very long scene where he like shows up 1012 01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,800 Speaker 1: to his wife's like little dinner party one of her 1013 01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,760 Speaker 1: other friends. What was going on there? And he's like 1014 01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: terrorizing everybody, And I'm just like, again, like, who are 1015 01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,040 Speaker 1: we supposed to be rooting for in this movie? Because 1016 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,200 Speaker 1: everyone's so toxic and awful. I think that was supposed 1017 01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,360 Speaker 1: to sort of like put her in a bad light, 1018 01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,920 Speaker 1: right because she was there with her boyfriend, and which 1019 01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:25,560 Speaker 1: I think was supposed to be imply at all, like 1020 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,439 Speaker 1: she's been unfaithful as well. Everyone is right, and like 1021 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,240 Speaker 1: when you when you first meet her, it's in the 1022 01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:40,200 Speaker 1: same scene that she's leaving him, so again, like I 1023 01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,400 Speaker 1: look at that, I'm like, yes, you were clearly very 1024 01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,559 Speaker 1: justified in leaving this very shitty Why did you marry 1025 01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,800 Speaker 1: this person? Is my question. But the way that these 1026 01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,960 Speaker 1: scenes like this get framed in movies in like just 1027 01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,519 Speaker 1: sort of the way that storytelling manipulates audiences, is it 1028 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:01,680 Speaker 1: makes us like we're not meant to like that his 1029 01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:06,320 Speaker 1: wife character or side with her because of like she's 1030 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,800 Speaker 1: doing something mean to the guy that we're supposed to 1031 01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:12,400 Speaker 1: be rooting for. So yeah, and then he just shows 1032 01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:16,360 Speaker 1: up at his daughter's like playground at school, and no 1033 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,840 Speaker 1: teachers being like who is this man? Don't talk to 1034 01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,840 Speaker 1: this weird man who's lingering at a playground, like what 1035 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,840 Speaker 1: it's so like? Yeah, him lingering at a playground was 1036 01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,160 Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I need to get me out 1037 01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,040 Speaker 1: of here, get me out of here, and I don't 1038 01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:41,120 Speaker 1: want to be here anymore. I it's I. I I 1039 01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,680 Speaker 1: was so confused, like what are we supposed to in 1040 01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,200 Speaker 1: what world is this going to endear you to this man? 1041 01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,720 Speaker 1: And then I was just like, well, you know, um, 1042 01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,479 Speaker 1: we're clearly not the target audience for this movie. I 1043 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:54,840 Speaker 1: would honestly I'm just like, I want to talk to 1044 01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,880 Speaker 1: whoever the target movie, Like who is the target audience 1045 01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:59,280 Speaker 1: for this movie? And I would like to have a 1046 01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 1: word with them because they have they have a twisted mind. 1047 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Um yeah, the way that and that's mainly I mean, 1048 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of the only way that in terms for 1049 01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:14,400 Speaker 1: for in terms of talking about like maybe this movie 1050 01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:19,080 Speaker 1: obviously doesn't pass the Bechdel test, Like women are just 1051 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:24,840 Speaker 1: there too make you feel away about a good guy 1052 01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,400 Speaker 1: or a bad guy. And I think, well, another the 1053 01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:29,479 Speaker 1: other female characters you have. You have a number of 1054 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:34,040 Speaker 1: sex workers who are presented nameless, faceless, usually as set dressing, 1055 01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:39,120 Speaker 1: um and either to be shamed or to be set dressing. 1056 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:44,679 Speaker 1: And then you have um, what's his name, Leev Schreiber's brother, Pop, 1057 01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:52,320 Speaker 1: what's Merriman? Uh, Merryman, Merriman's girlfriend or his wife, I'm 1058 01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:57,320 Speaker 1: not sure which. Wait, he's leave Schreibers. Oh my gosh. Yeah, 1059 01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of nepotism going on in this time. 1060 01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,639 Speaker 1: It's nepotism top to bottom, except well, actually, I guess 1061 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,200 Speaker 1: Leave Schreiber's brother, and o'she Jackson Jr. Is ice Cube's son, 1062 01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,599 Speaker 1: and Christian Guda Gasta is John Jacob Astor from Titanic Son. 1063 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,360 Speaker 1: So whatever nepotism feels the world, we know this. Um. 1064 01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:24,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, so so that Merriman's partner, I don't know. 1065 01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, like really, um what their relationship is 1066 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:32,320 Speaker 1: because the movie doesn't tell you, but he weaponizes her 1067 01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:34,439 Speaker 1: as well and kind of sens her out on. Can 1068 01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,439 Speaker 1: someone explain to me what was going on there? Because 1069 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:43,479 Speaker 1: I was confused? I mean, it didn't That's another thing 1070 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,479 Speaker 1: that didn't really make any sense. I feel like she 1071 01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:51,080 Speaker 1: seduced him and in that in that interaction she was 1072 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:54,680 Speaker 1: able to she informed him where the robbery was going 1073 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,880 Speaker 1: to be, But like, I don't really that part didn't 1074 01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,840 Speaker 1: really make sense to me, Like why would that come up? 1075 01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,679 Speaker 1: Like in a trist Like I think my boyfriend's driving 1076 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:10,000 Speaker 1: a bag because you might want to know about this, right, Yeah, 1077 01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,800 Speaker 1: what Mary? Mary? You learned that Merriman puts her up 1078 01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,640 Speaker 1: to it, and like she's he tells her to deliberately 1079 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:24,800 Speaker 1: give him this information so that those deputies go to 1080 01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,880 Speaker 1: that place, so that they are adequately distracted from the 1081 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:32,840 Speaker 1: real heist. But right, like so it's this he's oh god, 1082 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:38,400 Speaker 1: He's like pimping out his girlfriend who like be better 1083 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:41,519 Speaker 1: at crimes, and I'm just like, oh my god. And 1084 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:45,000 Speaker 1: then there's that scene where there's like just like a 1085 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:50,439 Speaker 1: dick measuring contest at the shooting range between Merriman and 1086 01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:53,800 Speaker 1: Gerard Butler, and they're just like, I can shoot my 1087 01:12:54,080 --> 01:13:03,360 Speaker 1: gun better than it's who who is this? But it 1088 01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:08,000 Speaker 1: seems like that is like cop culture in like just 1089 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,640 Speaker 1: the the embarrassing dick measuring hyper masculine cowboy culture is 1090 01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:19,920 Speaker 1: so I don't it's so, I guess I'm I'm curious 1091 01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:22,280 Speaker 1: about your your thoughts on that two series where it's 1092 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,639 Speaker 1: like it seems like these two things kind of feed 1093 01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,000 Speaker 1: into each other in this very insidious way where it's 1094 01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:31,960 Speaker 1: like all media surrounding cops reinforced this cowboy mentality. And 1095 01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:37,000 Speaker 1: I I mean, there's countless examples of people who decide 1096 01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,479 Speaker 1: they want to become cops based off of watching movies 1097 01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,599 Speaker 1: like this. And then it sounds like, based on your 1098 01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,599 Speaker 1: your reporting, that the culture that it actually exists very 1099 01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,680 Speaker 1: much reflects that it It just seems like a kind 1100 01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,160 Speaker 1: of a snake eating its own tail in terms of 1101 01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,800 Speaker 1: how the how the culture works there. Yeah, I think 1102 01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:58,560 Speaker 1: you summed it up perfectly. I mean everything that was 1103 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,040 Speaker 1: depicted in this movie, like that kind of stuff is 1104 01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:07,160 Speaker 1: celebrated in law enforcement, you know, like after there's a shooting. Um, 1105 01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the times they're going out and having 1106 01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:15,640 Speaker 1: drinks and you know, celebrating it. Um. Oh yeah, I 1107 01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,799 Speaker 1: think you very much hit it on the head. Like people, 1108 01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:21,879 Speaker 1: A lot of people, unfortunately, I think, join law enforcement 1109 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,280 Speaker 1: so they can participate in stuff like this. Yeah, and 1110 01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:30,680 Speaker 1: like fulfill this you know, whether it seems like like 1111 01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:36,800 Speaker 1: a dominant fantasy basically um right yeah, and then yeah, 1112 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,919 Speaker 1: I mean again, framing is everything. The way these characters 1113 01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:45,160 Speaker 1: are framed in media is often like, Wow, they're so cool, 1114 01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:49,920 Speaker 1: they're such badasses. You know, they play by their own rules. 1115 01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:54,240 Speaker 1: They're the heroes. They're like, you know, quote unquote saving 1116 01:14:54,400 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 1: the day, and it just perpetuates this cycle of propaganda. Yeah, 1117 01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:08,360 Speaker 1: it's not good. It's it's uh, I'll say it. I 1118 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:13,320 Speaker 1: don't like it. Um wow, brave, thank you. And I 1119 01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,000 Speaker 1: also thought it was like a very deliberate choice to 1120 01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,519 Speaker 1: make them to make the den of thieves, the you 1121 01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,120 Speaker 1: know who the movie wants you to feel it are 1122 01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,599 Speaker 1: the bad guys, to make them all veterans as well. 1123 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:27,400 Speaker 1: It's like, I think, a very trophy and deliberate choice. 1124 01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,960 Speaker 1: They were very um wait it was it was a 1125 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:37,680 Speaker 1: specific branch. They were from Marsock Marine Special Forces, right, 1126 01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,000 Speaker 1: And so it's like, you're all there's also this other 1127 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,680 Speaker 1: narrative that's kind of going on there that implies that, uh, 1128 01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,479 Speaker 1: you know, veterans are inclined to behave a type of 1129 01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:51,080 Speaker 1: way in a way that's just I don't know, it's 1130 01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:55,800 Speaker 1: it's obviously extremely unnuanced, but it doesn't really I mean, 1131 01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:59,719 Speaker 1: this movie interrogates nothing except like why does Gerard Butler 1132 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:04,640 Speaker 1: looks so bad? But um? And the other the other 1133 01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:08,720 Speaker 1: big question does fifty cent listen to stadium Marquadium? Um? 1134 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,400 Speaker 1: But in terms of like really intentionally choosing, I feel 1135 01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:13,920 Speaker 1: like it's really tropey to be like, oh, he's an 1136 01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 1: ex marine, so of course he's like really tough and 1137 01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:20,240 Speaker 1: really violent without interrogating like, well, where does that trope 1138 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,720 Speaker 1: come from? And can the government not be held to 1139 01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:29,160 Speaker 1: account as being extremely complicit and um marine violence and 1140 01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:33,800 Speaker 1: then providing veterans with no resources, um, you know, or 1141 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,880 Speaker 1: job prospects often once they're out of the forces, and 1142 01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,320 Speaker 1: just I don't know that kind of pain to me 1143 01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,240 Speaker 1: as well, of like, oh, of course this movie is 1144 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,240 Speaker 1: going to be poorly written enough just to be like, um, 1145 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:53,800 Speaker 1: ex marine, sure sounds good. Um yeah, are there was 1146 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:59,720 Speaker 1: like we definitely ran out of women. Um I'm pretty sure. Yeah. 1147 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:05,599 Speaker 1: There anything um you'd like to add about anything series 1148 01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:10,120 Speaker 1: or I guess I'm specifically interested in your thoughts on 1149 01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:17,519 Speaker 1: how media can handle the representation of law enforcements and 1150 01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:22,360 Speaker 1: that kind of things more responsibly or in a way 1151 01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:27,000 Speaker 1: that is, um, just more critical and shedding light on 1152 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:33,400 Speaker 1: the again, the like very often racially charged violence that 1153 01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:40,479 Speaker 1: they're inflicting on individuals and communities. Any any thoughts. Yeah, 1154 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think we just need to stop having 1155 01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,760 Speaker 1: movies like this, right, I mean yeah, And if you 1156 01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't think police violence should be glorified in movies, 1157 01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,000 Speaker 1: like I definitely think like there's perhaps a way to 1158 01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, have films that discuss the terror that police 1159 01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,400 Speaker 1: inflict on community news, but it's done in such a 1160 01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,320 Speaker 1: way that it's you know, amplifying the voices of the 1161 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:10,439 Speaker 1: people that survived the horror and you know, speaking about 1162 01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:13,679 Speaker 1: the implications of that and the toll that it's taken 1163 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,200 Speaker 1: on their lives. I'm much more interested in seeing that 1164 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,200 Speaker 1: rather than some asshole with a gun, you know, gives 1165 01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:22,120 Speaker 1: the R word and kill a bunch of people and 1166 01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:26,320 Speaker 1: then go home and collect. Think one of the few 1167 01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:31,080 Speaker 1: movies I've seen about that or like, like from that 1168 01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:36,000 Speaker 1: perspective would be straight out of Compton Um the hate 1169 01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,960 Speaker 1: you give, and then maybe handful of others, but they're 1170 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:44,439 Speaker 1: just yeah, those stories just aren't being told nearly as 1171 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,840 Speaker 1: often as all of these compaganda movies because there's just 1172 01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:50,000 Speaker 1: so many of them, and a lot of them, Like 1173 01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, damn it, this is a movie that I like, 1174 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,800 Speaker 1: it's about cops, and I just have to there's just 1175 01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,559 Speaker 1: like so much of that that I've had to un learn. 1176 01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,559 Speaker 1: I think it does come into like there there there 1177 01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,160 Speaker 1: are you know, there is media that exists that is 1178 01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,799 Speaker 1: critical of police, but they're also just like not funded 1179 01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:16,080 Speaker 1: or promoted um to anywhere near the same extent. Like 1180 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:18,880 Speaker 1: no one has ever heard of Dennett of Thieves, and 1181 01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,719 Speaker 1: yet it made eighty million dollars, Like it is such 1182 01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:27,000 Speaker 1: an industry as well that it's like it I don't know, 1183 01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,880 Speaker 1: it's it feels so frustrating and so hopeless and I 1184 01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,320 Speaker 1: think that there there is potential, especially um when reporting 1185 01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:38,240 Speaker 1: like yours comes out series that it's like, the more 1186 01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,240 Speaker 1: that the public is generally aware that this is just 1187 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:45,920 Speaker 1: total bullshit that um, we've kind of been spoon fed 1188 01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,680 Speaker 1: as like easy content to consume that hopefully that you know, 1189 01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,880 Speaker 1: the desires of of of the general public will change 1190 01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:57,800 Speaker 1: and be less open and accommodating and willing to just 1191 01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:02,760 Speaker 1: fork over money to stuff like this. Um yeah, I 1192 01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,040 Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's very dark. And then it's also 1193 01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:09,320 Speaker 1: just like so intuitive in the same way that it's 1194 01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,000 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, if you want to make a movie 1195 01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:17,760 Speaker 1: that's uh an accurate depiction of of what Like, it's 1196 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,960 Speaker 1: just the idea that the only option is to center 1197 01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 1: and consult cops. Like, in what world are you going 1198 01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:28,120 Speaker 1: to come out with something that isn't just promoting cops? 1199 01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:31,439 Speaker 1: And it just seems like that is the that's the 1200 01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,559 Speaker 1: media habit we're stuck in. And it's and and it's 1201 01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,880 Speaker 1: only recently kind of being um questioned. I mean, it's 1202 01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:44,320 Speaker 1: like dogs are Cops. That's like the most popular show 1203 01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:51,720 Speaker 1: for children is cop Dogs. Yea. And I feel like 1204 01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,519 Speaker 1: in the in the last several years, there's been I mean, 1205 01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,720 Speaker 1: there's been so many different takes on copaganda. There's so 1206 01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:04,040 Speaker 1: many ways to come at at um discussion, but it 1207 01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,679 Speaker 1: just seems like, yeah, like movies like Ten of Thieves 1208 01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:14,120 Speaker 1: don't serve anyone, Like it's just kind of garbage. And yeah, 1209 01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:20,120 Speaker 1: it's like referencing these gangs the Christian whatever the ship 1210 01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:24,439 Speaker 1: his name is I was aware of, but then doing 1211 01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:33,559 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to like criticize or comment on the behavior. 1212 01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:36,760 Speaker 1: I mean, aside from you know, again, they're showing the 1213 01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:42,880 Speaker 1: these deputies like you know, roughing up Donnie and they, yes, 1214 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,960 Speaker 1: they do do a big shootout and Um murder a 1215 01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:48,000 Speaker 1: lot of people. But again, it's all about the framing. 1216 01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:50,719 Speaker 1: It's like, well, they were bad guys, they were robbers, 1217 01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:55,320 Speaker 1: and they're justified at the end when Big Nick kills 1218 01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:00,760 Speaker 1: um Leave Shriver's brother. The way that it's framed is 1219 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,560 Speaker 1: like and this is like so hard for him and 1220 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,320 Speaker 1: he doesn't actually want to do it, He just he 1221 01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,200 Speaker 1: has to do it. And it's like no one has 1222 01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:15,320 Speaker 1: to murder anybody, and and and the disingenuous framing of like, 1223 01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,599 Speaker 1: oh don't you feel for this guy because he has 1224 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:25,200 Speaker 1: to murder It's like I don't know. Yeah, it makes 1225 01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:26,680 Speaker 1: my head hurt. But it's like, but it is so 1226 01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,519 Speaker 1: normalized in that genre that when you watch it unfold, 1227 01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:35,200 Speaker 1: these characters who literally admit to being the villain repeatedly. Um, 1228 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:39,000 Speaker 1: it's so stuck into this genre that it's like believen 1229 01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,479 Speaker 1: if they say they're the villain, they're actually not, and 1230 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:43,120 Speaker 1: we love them and we're gonna market it like that 1231 01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:47,840 Speaker 1: and we're gonna make eighty million bucking dollars. Um. So 1232 01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,600 Speaker 1: on that note, it doesn't pass the backbuilt tapest It 1233 01:22:54,760 --> 01:23:01,320 Speaker 1: really doesn't nowhere closed. Sorry, it does past the stadium 1234 01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:09,160 Speaker 1: arcadium test, which most movies don't. Um. So that's positive. Um. 1235 01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,880 Speaker 1: And then as far as our nipple scale zero to 1236 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,800 Speaker 1: five nipples based on an intersectional examination of the movie, 1237 01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:20,760 Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and give this zero nipples. So 1238 01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:25,519 Speaker 1: I don't think it really deserves anything. Um, let's give 1239 01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:28,880 Speaker 1: it a zero. Yeah, that's gonna be. That's going to 1240 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:33,720 Speaker 1: be a zero. Um, what would you like to rate it? 1241 01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:40,919 Speaker 1: It was horrible? I mean I am, I am genuinely 1242 01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,240 Speaker 1: very happy that you brought this to us though, because 1243 01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:47,280 Speaker 1: this is not normally the movie that we would cover, 1244 01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,800 Speaker 1: and like we just don't cover this genre very much, 1245 01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,920 Speaker 1: but it is definitely like important to talk about because 1246 01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:59,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people watch these movies like religiously, and 1247 01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and it definitely affects I mean, it unquestionably affects the 1248 01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,000 Speaker 1: way that they view law enforcement and what they're they're 1249 01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:10,920 Speaker 1: like willing to permit from law enforcement because, like you 1250 01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:15,840 Speaker 1: pointed it out, the most famous cop characters are constantly 1251 01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:19,160 Speaker 1: being terrible cops like and that's a part of the 1252 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:23,120 Speaker 1: glorified image. UM. And so much of the the incredible 1253 01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:28,080 Speaker 1: reporting you've you've been releasing UM reflects that to absolutely 1254 01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:36,320 Speaker 1: horrific extent. UM. So yeah, UM, thank you so much 1255 01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:39,439 Speaker 1: for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. 1256 01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:43,400 Speaker 1: We really we really really appreciate it. Um. And thank 1257 01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:47,240 Speaker 1: you for bringing us uh feminist masterpiece Done of Thieves 1258 01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:50,439 Speaker 1: my new favorite movie. I would have never discovered this 1259 01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,760 Speaker 1: without YEA, So thank you so much. UM. And where 1260 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:55,840 Speaker 1: can we um, where can we find your work? And 1261 01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,240 Speaker 1: where can we find um this this series you're you're 1262 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:03,479 Speaker 1: releasing this pisod's going to come out tomorrow. Yeah. You 1263 01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:07,120 Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at series Castle and you 1264 01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:10,519 Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram. UM by you know, typing 1265 01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,879 Speaker 1: that in as well. Um, you can read the series 1266 01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,719 Speaker 1: on the Deputy Gangs at Knock dot l A tomorrow 1267 01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,280 Speaker 1: or today when this podcast is dropping, we will actually 1268 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:25,479 Speaker 1: be releasing our UM chapter about the Regulators, so you 1269 01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:31,400 Speaker 1: can read all about Yes, perfect timing, so head over 1270 01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:33,519 Speaker 1: there and you can read all about the Deputy gang 1271 01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,599 Speaker 1: that Big Nick was in and all the horrible ship 1272 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,360 Speaker 1: that they do. God damn, thank you so much for 1273 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,920 Speaker 1: for coming. Thank you so much for the incredible reporting 1274 01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:48,000 Speaker 1: that you're doing. And um, yeah, I guess you can 1275 01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:50,439 Speaker 1: find the vectal cast and all in all the regular places, 1276 01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:55,639 Speaker 1: the Twitter, the Instagram, you can the Patreon, etcetera. Yeah, 1277 01:25:56,640 --> 01:26:01,880 Speaker 1: um yeah, please read the reporting that's Reese has done 1278 01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,720 Speaker 1: is continuing to do. And uh the Patreon. Can you 1279 01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:09,920 Speaker 1: can you plug the patroon again for nack l a yeah, 1280 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:14,320 Speaker 1: or please support ournock Patreon. Um. Like I said, UM, 1281 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:16,720 Speaker 1: this work is it costs a lot of money to 1282 01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,000 Speaker 1: do and I'd like to keep doing it. Um, So 1283 01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:25,000 Speaker 1: anything that you can spare is much appreciated. Yes, please, UM, 1284 01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:28,960 Speaker 1: and thanks for listening. Come back next week because we 1285 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,800 Speaker 1: have UM, I think maybe our most impactful episode that 1286 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:36,679 Speaker 1: we've ever released is coming out next week, so definitely 1287 01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:43,679 Speaker 1: yes for that. It's going to be it's very important, 1288 01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:46,080 Speaker 1: all right, Bye bye