WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: Paris Catacombs

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Saturday, everybody. As we get ready to set off

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<v Speaker 1>on our trip to Barcelona, and we also come up

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<v Speaker 1>on Halloween, we are bringing out a previous episode that

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<v Speaker 1>combines the macabre with another trip that we took to Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>It is the Paris Catacombs, which followed our twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>trip to France. This originally came out on October twenty third,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, So enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in

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<v Speaker 1>History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye.

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<v Speaker 1>Back when we were planning our trip to Paris earlier

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<v Speaker 1>this year, one of the things that we specifically asked

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<v Speaker 1>to include on the itinerary was a trip to the Catacombs.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are in the southern part of the city. They're

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<v Speaker 1>on the left bank of the Seine, and the Catacombs

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<v Speaker 1>are an ossuary that cans the bones of an estimated

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<v Speaker 1>six to seven million people. They are stacked in their

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<v Speaker 1>floor to ceiling. Of course, that was an ideal topic

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<v Speaker 1>for an October episode, but that ostuary is just one

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<v Speaker 1>part of a huge network of tunnels and mines that

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<v Speaker 1>are under the city. Their history goes back centuries before

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<v Speaker 1>the bones were even part of it. And really this

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<v Speaker 1>is two interconnected stories of minds and human remains. Because

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<v Speaker 1>in the eighteenth century Paris was dealing with two really

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<v Speaker 1>big problems simultaneously. It had way too many dead bodies

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<v Speaker 1>to deal with and a lot of the city was

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<v Speaker 1>at great risk of collapsing into those mines. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>who hasn't had those two problems happening at the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when we were on our catacomb's tour, the

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<v Speaker 1>collapsing of the city was one hundred percent news to me,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, that is as to meet dramatic

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<v Speaker 1>as these bones are surrounded by. Yeah, and the city

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<v Speaker 1>of Paris has a distinctive look. I love it so deeply.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of its historic buildings are made from limestone, including

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<v Speaker 1>famous landmarks like the Louver and notcl Dame Cathedral. Limestone

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<v Speaker 1>is a rock made from marine sediments and it's abundant

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<v Speaker 1>in the region thanks to the warm sea that covered

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<v Speaker 1>the area roughly forty five million years ago, and it

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<v Speaker 1>gives these buildings a consistent, creamy facade, often under a

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<v Speaker 1>gray zinc roof. Yeah, when you look at like wide

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<v Speaker 1>sweeping shots of Paris in movies if you've never personally

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<v Speaker 1>been there, that's what's behind that just sort of dreamy,

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<v Speaker 1>consistently colored look. Yeah, we should point out that that's

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<v Speaker 1>in part also because the city has had a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of regulation in place about what can be built and

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<v Speaker 1>how it can be built, and that things need to

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<v Speaker 1>look like they belong together, right right. This is especially

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<v Speaker 1>like in the central historic part of the city. If

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<v Speaker 1>you get out into the suburbs, it doesn't so much

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<v Speaker 1>look like that anymore. Some of this limestone came from

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<v Speaker 1>other parts of France, but a lot of it came

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<v Speaker 1>from under the city of Paris itself. This type of

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<v Speaker 1>limestone is so closely associated with the city that it's

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<v Speaker 1>often called Paris stone, but its more formal name is

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<v Speaker 1>Lutitian limestone. Geologists in the nineteenth century named it after Lutitia,

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<v Speaker 1>which was the Roman name for the city that we

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<v Speaker 1>now know as Paris. People were quarrying limestone, gypsum, and

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<v Speaker 1>other materials in what's now Paris all the way back

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<v Speaker 1>to antiquity. When this started around the first century, the

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<v Speaker 1>city was much smaller, mostly occupying the area just to

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<v Speaker 1>the south of the Seine and the islands in the

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<v Speaker 1>river itself. The earliest quarries were open pits to the

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<v Speaker 1>south of the city proper, but by the fourteenth century

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<v Speaker 1>people were mining limestone underground rather than using these open quarries,

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<v Speaker 1>and as the mines and the city both got bigger,

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<v Speaker 1>they eventually overlapped. Mines were primarily under what's now the

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<v Speaker 1>thirteenth and fourteenth Arrondiusment, but they also extended under a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of other parts of the city as well. Although

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<v Speaker 1>abandoned galleries within the mines were supposed to be filled

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<v Speaker 1>in in a lot of cases, this didn't always happen.

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<v Speaker 1>When it did happen, naturally, the fill material that was

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<v Speaker 1>used was never as strong or as stable as the

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<v Speaker 1>limestone that had been taken out. Basically, people were digging

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<v Speaker 1>limestone out from under Paris, bringing it above ground, and

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<v Speaker 1>making buildings out of it without necessarily reinforcing or bracing

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<v Speaker 1>the space they left behind. This sounds sort of like

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<v Speaker 1>the start of a sci fi movie on how to

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<v Speaker 1>do it wrong. Unsurprisingly, this led to some problems. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Even under the best possible circumstances, it would be challenging

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<v Speaker 1>to simultaneously keep up with centuries of expansion in both

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<v Speaker 1>the city above and the mines below. This expansion, like

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<v Speaker 1>I said, it just took place over hundreds of years.

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<v Speaker 1>There was not a mass sister plan for the city

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<v Speaker 1>of Paris that was maintained consistently for all of that time.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when it came to what was happening underground,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of the time nobody was keeping track of

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<v Speaker 1>the big picture with that at all. By the seventeen hundreds,

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<v Speaker 1>no one really had a sense of just how much

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<v Speaker 1>stone had been removed from under Paris or exactly where

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<v Speaker 1>the tunnels and galleries had been dug. And on top

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<v Speaker 1>of that, in places the mines had been dug in layers,

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<v Speaker 1>with one crew digging under a gallery that an earlier

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<v Speaker 1>crew had previously hollowed out. So in the late eighteenth century,

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<v Speaker 1>parts of Paris started collapsing into the mines underneath. This

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<v Speaker 1>crisis really peaked between seventeen seventy four and seventeen seventy eight,

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<v Speaker 1>and during that time as many as twenty people were killed.

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<v Speaker 1>That might sound like a pretty low death toll compared

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<v Speaker 1>to most of the disasters that we have talked about

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<v Speaker 1>on this show, but these collapses were so unpredictable and

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<v Speaker 1>frequent and dramatic that they were just terrifying. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know about anybody else, but the idea that my house

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<v Speaker 1>might suddenly fall into a sink hole with that warning

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<v Speaker 1>is way scarier to me than anything else we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about in the show. Today. People even blame these collapses

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<v Speaker 1>on the work of the devil. That makes sense, right.

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<v Speaker 1>The devil is below you, trying to shut your house down.

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<v Speaker 1>The first major collapse took place on December seventeenth, seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy four, when a stretch of Rue d'anfair, the Street

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<v Speaker 1>of Hell, collapsed into a mine. Roughly three hundred meters

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<v Speaker 1>of road and adjacent buildings collapsed into a hole that

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<v Speaker 1>was at least twenty five meters deep. Other collapses followed

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<v Speaker 1>that one. On September fifteenth, seventeen seventy six, King Louis

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<v Speaker 1>the sixteenth signed a decree closing the mines and prohibiting

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<v Speaker 1>digging under public roads. People who owned private land that

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<v Speaker 1>was situated over a mine were required to have that

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<v Speaker 1>mine inspected and reinforced. The king also dispatched an architect

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<v Speaker 1>named Antoine du Pont to inspect the damage. From this

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<v Speaker 1>collapse and to try to map them the mine system

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<v Speaker 1>as well as determine whether the private property owners were

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<v Speaker 1>in compliance with this requirement. On April fourth of the

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<v Speaker 1>following year, Louis the sixteenth issued another decree which established

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<v Speaker 1>a Department of General Corey Inspection. Award winning Royal architect

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Axel Guillammeau was appointed as its first inspector. General

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<v Speaker 1>DuPaul stayed on as an engineer, although it's clear that

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<v Speaker 1>he and Guiamau did not really get along terribly well.

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<v Speaker 1>Gamo was given the task of mapping the minds and

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<v Speaker 1>making them safe, and he had the skills that experienced

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<v Speaker 1>to do this. At the same time, though this situation

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<v Speaker 1>was dire, Another major collapse occurred near the city center

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<v Speaker 1>on April twenty fourth, which was the day that he

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<v Speaker 1>started work, and this project was also massive. There were

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<v Speaker 1>about eight hundred hectares of mines under the city of Paris,

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<v Speaker 1>that's about three square miles or eight square kilometers. Guillemau

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<v Speaker 1>needed to map that entire system, including figuring out what

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<v Speaker 1>public roads in buildings were situated on the land above

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<v Speaker 1>and marking those landmarks with signs below. The King was

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<v Speaker 1>not quite so worried about what was under private land.

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<v Speaker 1>Gmo needed to reinforce and brace areas that were in

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<v Speaker 1>danger of collapsing, and he developed a code for marking

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<v Speaker 1>support columns that would note when the column was placed

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<v Speaker 1>and who had done it. You can still see lots

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<v Speaker 1>of those down there today. Gmo had hundreds of men

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<v Speaker 1>working on this project, including laborers and cartographers, but there

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<v Speaker 1>was really no way to do all of this work

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<v Speaker 1>quickly enough to immediately prevent all future collapses. They kept

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<v Speaker 1>happening regularly over the next few years. In seventeen seventy eight,

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<v Speaker 1>a collapse in the neighborhood of Minimal killed seven people,

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<v Speaker 1>and it took weeks to find all of their bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to all of this mapping and stabilization work,

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<v Speaker 1>Giammo also took on another task, preparing the old minds

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<v Speaker 1>to receive human remains, and we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>that after we first paused for a little sponsor break.

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<v Speaker 1>As the city of Paris was dealing with all these

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<v Speaker 1>collapsing roads and buildings, that was also dealing with another

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<v Speaker 1>major problem, and that was an over abundance of dead bodies.

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<v Speaker 1>As the city was expanding over what was essentially hollowed

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<v Speaker 1>out limestone. It had also really outgrown its available burial space.

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<v Speaker 1>In the centuries before the French Revolution, most people in

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<v Speaker 1>Paris were buried in cemeteries that were adjacent to their

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<v Speaker 1>parish churches. The city had thirty two such cemeteries, and

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<v Speaker 1>in most cases people were buried in mass graves rather

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<v Speaker 1>than individual plots. It was not unusual for these graves

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<v Speaker 1>to be dug as trenches and then left open until

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<v Speaker 1>they were full. It also was not unusual for the

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<v Speaker 1>same piece of land to be reused as time passed,

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<v Speaker 1>with a new mass grave being dug where an older

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<v Speaker 1>group of bodies had decomposed. As the city got bigger

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<v Speaker 1>and more crowded, though, this method of burial became less

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<v Speaker 1>and less workable homes and other buildings encroached on the cemeteries.

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<v Speaker 1>There were more bodies packed into the mass graves more tightly,

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<v Speaker 1>with less time passing before the same piece of ground

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<v Speaker 1>was needed to bury more people In an overcrowded graveyard,

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<v Speaker 1>there just wasn't enough organic material and oxygen available for

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<v Speaker 1>microorganisms to do the work required for decomposition, so there

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<v Speaker 1>were too many bodies and it was taking longer for

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<v Speaker 1>them to break down. Complicating all of this was the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that some of these same churchyards were also used

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<v Speaker 1>as communal green space, or they were next door to

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<v Speaker 1>those types of spaces. So, for example, if a market

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<v Speaker 1>was next door to or overlapping with a graveyard, that

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<v Speaker 1>graveyard might be littered with blood and offal from butchered

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<v Speaker 1>animals or rotting produce that had not been sold. Foul

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<v Speaker 1>air and the smell of decay became persistent problems on

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<v Speaker 1>top of the inherent grossness of that situation and the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that decaying bodies really can spread disease. At this

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<v Speaker 1>point in history, people blamed miasmas or bad air for

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<v Speaker 1>a range of illnesses. There was a lot of talk

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<v Speaker 1>about quote, cadaverous exhalations in these graveyards and the health

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<v Speaker 1>problems that they were causing. By the seventeen sixties, officials

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<v Speaker 1>in Paris were issuing reports detailing all kinds of problems

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<v Speaker 1>that were associated with the cemeteries, including thick and foul

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<v Speaker 1>smelling air and a range of mysterious illnesses. In seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty five, an ordinance was passed outlawing burials in church cemeteries,

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<v Speaker 1>instead requiring new cemeteries to be built outside of the

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<v Speaker 1>city itself, but this ordinance was never enforced. People understandably

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<v Speaker 1>were upset by the idea that they could not be

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<v Speaker 1>buried in the same place that their loved ones had been.

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<v Speaker 1>In some cases, families had been buried in the same

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<v Speaker 1>church cemetery for generations. The Catholic Church also objected to

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<v Speaker 1>the plan because it meant that burials were going to

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<v Speaker 1>become secularized. Even though people generally objected to the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of moving the cemeteries outside the city, they continued to

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<v Speaker 1>be concerned about their unhealthful effects in the city. It

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of like a weird turnabout of the not

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<v Speaker 1>in my backyard problem. In addition to blaming illnesses on

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<v Speaker 1>bad cemetery air, people claimed that it was causing milk, meat,

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<v Speaker 1>and other food to spoil within hours. People also reported

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<v Speaker 1>wine turning into vinegar almost as soon as it was

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<v Speaker 1>opened because of all this cemetery funk. It's not clear

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<v Speaker 1>how much of this was real and how much was

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<v Speaker 1>an urban legend, but it's clear that people were really

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<v Speaker 1>fearful about whether these cemeteries were hurting them. In spite

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<v Speaker 1>of that, though, nothing really changed until seventeen eighty, and

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<v Speaker 1>that is when the situation at Cemthier de Saint Anossin,

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<v Speaker 1>or the Cemetery of Holy Innocence, became completely unmanageable. This

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<v Speaker 1>was the largest cemetery in Paris and also one of

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<v Speaker 1>the oldest. Burials had started there in antiquity and its

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<v Speaker 1>use as a cemetery was ongoing by the twelfth century.

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<v Speaker 1>In eleven eighty six, King Philippe the second Auguste had

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<v Speaker 1>a wall built around it as a mark of respect

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<v Speaker 1>for the dead, but then also with the hope of

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<v Speaker 1>discouraging people from using it as a public commons and

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<v Speaker 1>market space. At first, the wall worked pretty well for

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<v Speaker 1>this second purpose, but as the city grew, it was

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<v Speaker 1>treated more and more like a common green space and

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<v Speaker 1>the neighboring buildings got closer to it, some of them

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<v Speaker 1>right up against that wall. Although it was technically owned

0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 1>by the adjacent Holy Innocence Church, this cemetery was operated

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 1>more like a public cemetery. Residents of eighteen different parishes

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.120
<v Speaker 1>had burial rights there. Two hospitals and a morgue also

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.560
<v Speaker 1>sent their bodies to Holy Innocence. By the eighteenth century,

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.040
<v Speaker 1>about ten percent of the people who died in Paris

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 1>were being buried in that one place, and that was

0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.960
<v Speaker 1>far more than the space could handle. In seventeen eighty,

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.440
<v Speaker 1>people started reporting extremely foul odors around the Cemetery of

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>the Holy Innocence, and they started filing official complaints. Then,

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 1>one night, a restaurant owner went into his cellar for

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 1>some wine and described himself as being totally overcome by

0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the smell. It turned out that the cemetery wall had collapsed,

0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>filling the cellars of several homes with human remains. Newly

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 1>appointed Salubrity inspector Antoine Alexica de de Vaux investigated the

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>situation and filed a report stating that at least three

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>houses had been affected by poisonous gases seeping in from

0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.240
<v Speaker 1>the cemetery. Residents were reporting all kinds of health effects,

0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 1>including delirium, respiratory issues, and vomiting. The inspector recommended that

0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>they not only seal off the basements and disinfect the homes,

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.320
<v Speaker 1>but also that the cemetery be closed entirely. Not long

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>after Louis the sixteenth government issued an ordinance calling the

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Cemetery of Holy Innocence quote an intolerable and illegal threat

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to the city. The burials stopped there that year seventeen eighty,

0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>although the bodies that were already there stayed where they

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 1>were for the time being. People just didn't know what

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>to do with them. In seventeen eighty two, though, someone

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 1>writing under the name Villadieux published an essay proposing that

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>the bodies be moved down into the mines that were

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>under the city, which conveniently had just been undergoing this

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.400
<v Speaker 1>whole mapping and reinforcement process. This is where the mind

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>story and the body story intersect, So before we get

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:40.520
<v Speaker 1>to that, we will take another quick sponsor break. About

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 1>five years passed between the closing of the Cemetery of

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 1>the Holy Innocence, meaning when people stopped burying new bodies there,

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.920
<v Speaker 1>and the removal of those bodies to the mines under

0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the city of Paris. The process started in December of

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 1>seventeen eighty five, with bodies being removed from the cemetery

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 1>at night to try to avoid upsetting people and the

0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Catholic Church. On April seventh, seventeen eighty six, a portion

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.239
<v Speaker 1>of the mine system was consecrated as the Paris Municipal

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Osuary At some point in this process of body relocation,

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 1>people started calling the area the Catacombs, after the Catacombs

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 1>of Rome. A lot of folks refer to this whole

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.119
<v Speaker 1>system of minds as the Catacombs, even though the osuary

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 1>is only one small part of it. Yeah, when we

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.400
<v Speaker 1>were there, it was an interesting thing, and that they

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 1>talk about how huge it is, but what you walk

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>through is really a fairly short little section of it.

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 1>I think there's the perception, and I know I had

0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>it that you would just kind of be turned loose

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>in this huge PLA. No, that is not the case.

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>The process of removing the bodies from the Cemetery of

0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the Holy Innocence took months, and it involved the remains

0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>of more than twenty thousand people. The cemetery had been

0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 1>so overcrowded that many of the bodies had supoontified, I

0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 1>means the fats in the body turned into a soapy

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 1>substance rather than decomposing. Scientists Antoine Faercrois and Michel Turret

0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.960
<v Speaker 1>studied these bodies and coined the term at apisser to

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 1>describe what they were seeing. Once the bodies were all

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 1>gone out of the cemetery of the Holy Innocence. The

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 1>charle houses that were associated with the cemetery were torn down,

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 1>the ground was disinfected with lime, and concrete was poured

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>over the entire area. A fountain was installed in the

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>middle of this, and today the former Cemetery of the

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Holy Innocence is the Fountain of Innocence, which is a

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 1>public plaza. Soon people living near other cemeteries started petitioning

0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 1>for those bodies to be removed as well. One by one,

0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the cemeteries within the city were closed and emptied. These

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.199
<v Speaker 1>remains weren't artfully arranged the way they are in the

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 1>catacombs today. For the most part, the bodies were just

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.439
<v Speaker 1>put into it in piles. And then in the midst

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.440
<v Speaker 1>of all this exhumation and body relocating, the French Revolution

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.800
<v Speaker 1>started in seventeen eighty nine. Axel Guillemont was briefly imprisoned

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 1>during the revolution, in part because his position had been

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 1>a royal appointments, and in part because Antoine DuPont was

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.720
<v Speaker 1>campaigning against him. Like we said earlier, they did not

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 1>seem to get along. I don't have all the detail

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 1>about exactly what went on there. There seems to have

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 1>been an ongoing power struggle, though all the church property

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>was nationalized in the fall of seventeen eighty nine and

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 1>including the cemeteries, but for the most part, this long

0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 1>term effort of cemetery closures and body removals was put

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.119
<v Speaker 1>on hold, especially as the French Revolution morphed into the

0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Reign of Terror. However, this was also one of the

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.760
<v Speaker 1>few times when the recently dead were taken to the

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 1>catacombs rather than bodies that had already been interred in

0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.160
<v Speaker 1>a cemetery. A mass killing of prisoners was carried out

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 1>between September two and sixth the seventeen ninety two out

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>of fears that they might band together into counter revolutionary uprising.

0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 1>More than one thousand prisoners were killed in what came

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 1>to be known as September massacres. Although some were buried

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 1>in cemeteries, most were placed in the catacombs, and the

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 1>ones that were buried in cemeteries were moved to the

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.399
<v Speaker 1>catacombs when those cemeteries were emptied. Later. Napoleon came to

0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.880
<v Speaker 1>power in France in seventeen ninety nine, and the cemeteries

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of Paris became part of the question of how the

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:24.360
<v Speaker 1>French in general and Parisians specifically imagined theirselves in their

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.919
<v Speaker 1>new society post revolution, there were still a lot of

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 1>public health concerns that surrounded the cemeteries that had been

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.960
<v Speaker 1>there before the revolution, and then on top of that,

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 1>the violence and the recent horror of the Reign of

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Terror made the subject of these overcrowded burial spaces and

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.240
<v Speaker 1>the bodies in them a particularly sensitive one. People proposed

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.959
<v Speaker 1>sweeping reforms in multiple areas of society, including what the

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 1>city should look like and how bodies should be treated

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 1>after death. People started to imagine public cemeteries as places

0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.199
<v Speaker 1>that could be beautiful while also inspiring a sense of

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.400
<v Speaker 1>morality and community ties. So during these years, a lot

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.520
<v Speaker 1>of things happened that were connected to this idea of

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.360
<v Speaker 1>how to make spaces for the dead, and what those

0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.959
<v Speaker 1>spaces should mean to the living, and how all of

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>that connected to the greater idea of French society. Before

0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the revolution ended, the Church of Sant Genevieve had been

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.359
<v Speaker 1>reimagined as the Pantheon, which was to house bodies of

0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:28.159
<v Speaker 1>some of France's most notable citizens, including Voltaire, Victor Hugo,

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.880
<v Speaker 1>emil Zola, Alexandre dumat Pierre, and Marie Currie. There had

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 1>been a few burials in what is now Perlichez Cemetery

0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.680
<v Speaker 1>before this point, but the cemetery as it exists today

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.119
<v Speaker 1>was opened in eighteen oh four. It was designed by

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 1>architect Alexandre Teo d'Or Brognere an urban planner Nicholas Rocheaut.

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>It was France's first garden cemetery, which was a cemetery

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.919
<v Speaker 1>style that became popular in North America and parts of

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Europe in the nineteenth century. Garden cemeteries were also called

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 1>rural cemeteries, and they were meant to provide a sanitary

0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 1>way to bury the dead, but also to serve as

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.480
<v Speaker 1>a public park land and to reinforce romantic ideals that

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.280
<v Speaker 1>were connected to nature and hygiene. The bodies of a

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>number of notable people were moved to Perliches, including abbal

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Ard and Heloise, and today it's one of the city's

0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 1>most popular tourist attractions. I went there on our trip

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 1>to Paris, and it is beautiful and it does all

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.480
<v Speaker 1>the things that those types of cemeteries were supposed to inspire,

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:32.159
<v Speaker 1>which is like walking through nature and contemplating mortality in

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 1>a peaceful, serene environment. Other similar cemeteries followed, both in

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.439
<v Speaker 1>France and elsewhere underground, though the bodies that had been

0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.520
<v Speaker 1>placed in the catacombs were mostly left unattended from the

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>start of the French Revolution through the early eighteen hundreds.

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.640
<v Speaker 1>By then, in spite of the earlier work that Gumo

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>had done, the catacombs were once again unsafe. Collapses and

0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>sinkholes continued, although on a smaller scale than they had

0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the eighteenth century. Plus part of

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 1>the system was now full of remains in various states

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 1>of decay. The mines stayed cool year round, but they're

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.640
<v Speaker 1>also very damp, so the remains had been affected by

0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 1>moisture and rot. But in March of eighteen oh nine,

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Luis Etien Rica de Tuy was appointed to the Underground

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Department of Mines and Quarries, and he undertook a project

0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>to turn what had basically just been an underground body

0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.919
<v Speaker 1>dump into a monument that was suitable for public admission.

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>This is when the bones were arranged in the way

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>that they are today, with the long bones and the

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:38.960
<v Speaker 1>skulls backed up florida ceiling where you can see them,

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and smaller bones and bone pieces tucked away behind. There

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 1>are some spots if you go down there, where you

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:46.640
<v Speaker 1>can get a peek at the smaller bones and these

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.600
<v Speaker 1>fragments as well. There are placards around that note in

0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 1>a general way which cemetery the bones came from and

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.120
<v Speaker 1>when they were placed in the catacombs. The catacombs open

0:22:57.200 --> 0:22:59.919
<v Speaker 1>to the public just four months after Eric al Detur

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.879
<v Speaker 1>took on this project. Visitors pass under a carving that

0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.720
<v Speaker 1>reads arete say e see lampert de la more or

0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.040
<v Speaker 1>stop this is the Empire of death. There are also

0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.680
<v Speaker 1>placards carved with quotations about death, which ric Cardo Turri

0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.240
<v Speaker 1>decided to add in eighteen ten. Other than that, the

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.399
<v Speaker 1>decorations are really minimal. Little has changed about the catacombs

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 1>themselves since the early nineteenth century, and the last deposit

0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.280
<v Speaker 1>of bones happened in eighteen sixty. The biggest edition since

0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>then is the electric lighting, which it now has. Even

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 1>though this osuary was created because people were afraid of

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 1>the negative effects that dead bodies were having in their neighborhoods,

0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 1>the catacombs with the bodies in them quickly became a

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 1>tourist attraction. Ere Car de Touri placed a guestbook at

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 1>the exit. In between July of eighteen oh nine and

0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.240
<v Speaker 1>August of eighteen thirteen, visitors left their impressions of the

0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 1>catacombs in it as they left. General reactions in this

0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.360
<v Speaker 1>guest book were all over the place, although a lot

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 1>of people may notes along the lines of here one

0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.960
<v Speaker 1>can learn how to live, or some variation of Memento

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.679
<v Speaker 1>mauri or remember you will die, which is also the

0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:14.800
<v Speaker 1>name of a gift shop in Magic Kingdom. It is yes,

0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:18.399
<v Speaker 1>I love it. Guests also observed how the placement of

0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 1>the anonymous, indistinguishable bones illustrated that all people are equal

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.480
<v Speaker 1>in death. This was particularly true since the cemeteries that

0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:30.240
<v Speaker 1>had been emptied included the bodies of famous and influential people,

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:36.159
<v Speaker 1>including Maximilian Robespierre. Throughout their existence, the mines under Paris

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:38.440
<v Speaker 1>have been used for a range of purposes that really

0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:40.959
<v Speaker 1>have nothing to do with getting limestone or dealing with

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.760
<v Speaker 1>excess bodies. Researchers started working in the catacombs of the

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:49.000
<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century, studying everything from the anatomy and pathology of

0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the bones to whether anything could or did live down there.

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Photographer Gaspar Felix Tornachal, known as Felix Nadar studied the

0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 1>use of artificial light in photography down there. He patented

0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the light source that he used to photograph the catacombs

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen sixty one. People also hid in them during

0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 1>the Revolution and the World Wars and other times of strife,

0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:13.639
<v Speaker 1>and the minds, of course have been put to all

0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 1>kinds of criminal use, including being used by smugglers and

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 1>people just hiding out from the law. Even though so

0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:22.679
<v Speaker 1>much work was done to map and stabilize the mines,

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 1>they are still prone to collapse in flooding and it

0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:29.200
<v Speaker 1>is easy to get lost. For these reasons, entry into

0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:32.399
<v Speaker 1>them was outlawed on November two of nineteen fifty five.

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Visitors to the catacombs are allowed to walk only through

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.840
<v Speaker 1>a designated section. As we mentioned before, it's brief, which

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:41.719
<v Speaker 1>is fenced off from the rest of the mines and

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 1>parts of the austuary that are off limits to visitors.

0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 1>It is basically a one way tour. You go down

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the steps to get in there, you walk in a

0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:54.520
<v Speaker 1>linear fashion through it and then go out, and there

0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:57.920
<v Speaker 1>is just a massive system beyond that that people are

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>not allowed into. Even so, today there is a whole

0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:06.639
<v Speaker 1>subculture of catacomb officionados who are known as cataphiles, who

0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:09.680
<v Speaker 1>have their own slang and their own rules of behavior

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 1>and etiquette. They've used some of this space, the space

0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:16.560
<v Speaker 1>that folks are not supposed to access to create artwork,

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:21.399
<v Speaker 1>including graffiti and carving's. Cataphiles access the minds through little

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:25.119
<v Speaker 1>known entrances, through things like sewers and sellers and other openings.

0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 1>There's a whole police department that is tasked with trying

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.200
<v Speaker 1>to find those and close them off because it can

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:35.439
<v Speaker 1>be very dangerous down there. As I was researching this,

0:26:35.520 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I found a news story about a couple of teenagers

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.800
<v Speaker 1>who were lost down there for days, and that was

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 1>just within the last couple of years. There is apparently

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:46.679
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who hang out down there all

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:51.639
<v Speaker 1>the time, fortunately with no injuries or deaths involved, but

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:56.960
<v Speaker 1>they are still still a dangerous place to go, especially

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:00.679
<v Speaker 1>without knowing your way around or how to deal with

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.600
<v Speaker 1>stuff down there. Yeah. I mean even you know, as

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:06.560
<v Speaker 1>you're walking through the area that you are allowed into,

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 1>you can see they are fenced off, as we mentioned,

0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:14.680
<v Speaker 1>but you can see down some of those other areas

0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and it goes to pitch blackness in a hurry, I

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 1>can't imagine being lost down there, particularly if you have

0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 1>maybe lost power on your phone or something. I would

0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:28.400
<v Speaker 1>be terrified, not because I am afraid of the bones,

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:31.280
<v Speaker 1>but just because I am trapped in a place where

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:34.200
<v Speaker 1>I can't see and no one knows where I am. Yeah,

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and you have no cell phone signal. There's really no

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.119
<v Speaker 1>way to get a signal down there. You can find

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:41.480
<v Speaker 1>on the internet and they will be in the show

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:46.840
<v Speaker 1>notes various like magazine features by folks who have gained

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the trust of some cataphiles to be able to be

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>guided down there, and several of them have harrowing moments

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 1>where they're like, I have to crawl through this little

0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 1>tunnel that I can barely fit through. Rubble is raining

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:03.199
<v Speaker 1>down on me, and I can tell that the metro

0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:07.720
<v Speaker 1>is directly above my head. What if something happens like

0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:12.560
<v Speaker 1>there's no nope, nopelope. Anytime you're crawling through a tunnel

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 1>you barely fit through, I'm out. I'm yeah. Well, it

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:19.240
<v Speaker 1>reminds me in a lot of ways of caving. I

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>know a lot of people go caving, yeah, like an

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:26.560
<v Speaker 1>adventure sport, and that can also be very dangerous. I

0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 1>don't understand why you would choose that over having a

0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:32.719
<v Speaker 1>delicious meal. I just don't understand. I know it's very

0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 1>thrilling for some people. I have a friend who's an

0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 1>adrenaline junkie. I never understand why she wants to do

0:28:37.160 --> 0:28:39.959
<v Speaker 1>the thing she does. She must think I'm the dullest

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:45.280
<v Speaker 1>human on the planet. I'm like, yes, but bacon, there's

0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>happiness to be gained in other places. Yeah, but the catacombs,

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it goes without saying it is a huge

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:55.479
<v Speaker 1>tourist attraction, but I really do highly recommend visiting if

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:58.200
<v Speaker 1>you're in Paris. The thing that struck me when we

0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 1>were there this time, I'm a little older and theoretically wiser,

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.160
<v Speaker 1>and it really was more than anything. It made me

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 1>think about the equalizing nature of death in a way

0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 1>that was very reassuring and not upsetting at all. It

0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.360
<v Speaker 1>was really really lovely, and I'm grateful that I had

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the chance to return. Yeah, especially in the post French Revolution,

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 1>with the you know, the the ideals of the French Revolution,

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:28.400
<v Speaker 1>especially at the beginning, being about equality and fraternity. That

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 1>like that that presentation of the bones is being this

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 1>sort of universal equalizing I think was intentional. I was

0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:46.120
<v Speaker 1>more struck by just how many there are, because Paris

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:52.800
<v Speaker 1>as a city has been you know, a large depending

0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 1>on how you know large in quotation marks, depending on

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.959
<v Speaker 1>what period of time, But it has been inhabited as

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 1>a city for so long, and what do you do

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 1>with the remains of your dead when you run out

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:07.760
<v Speaker 1>of room? And so like my fascination with it, I

0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:10.200
<v Speaker 1>think was like a lot more with just the more

0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.320
<v Speaker 1>pragmatic idea of like, oh, what do we do with

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 1>all of our bodies? Right? Thanks so much for joining

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:24.560
<v Speaker 1>us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of

0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>the archive, if you heard an email address or a

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0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:33.400
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0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:38.520
<v Speaker 1>History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can find us

0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:41.760
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