1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. As we get ready to set off 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: on our trip to Barcelona, and we also come up 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: on Halloween, we are bringing out a previous episode that 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: combines the macabre with another trip that we took to Europe. 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: It is the Paris Catacombs, which followed our twenty nineteen 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: trip to France. This originally came out on October twenty third, 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, So enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to 9 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: Back when we were planning our trip to Paris earlier 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: this year, one of the things that we specifically asked 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: to include on the itinerary was a trip to the Catacombs. 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Those are in the southern part of the city. They're 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: on the left bank of the Seine, and the Catacombs 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: are an ossuary that cans the bones of an estimated 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: six to seven million people. They are stacked in their 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: floor to ceiling. Of course, that was an ideal topic 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: for an October episode, but that ostuary is just one 19 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: part of a huge network of tunnels and mines that 20 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: are under the city. Their history goes back centuries before 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: the bones were even part of it. And really this 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: is two interconnected stories of minds and human remains. Because 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: in the eighteenth century Paris was dealing with two really 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: big problems simultaneously. It had way too many dead bodies 25 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: to deal with and a lot of the city was 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: at great risk of collapsing into those mines. I mean, 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: who hasn't had those two problems happening at the same time. 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: You know, when we were on our catacomb's tour, the 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: collapsing of the city was one hundred percent news to me, 30 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: and I was like, that is as to meet dramatic 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: as these bones are surrounded by. Yeah, and the city 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: of Paris has a distinctive look. I love it so deeply. 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: Many of its historic buildings are made from limestone, including 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: famous landmarks like the Louver and notcl Dame Cathedral. Limestone 35 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: is a rock made from marine sediments and it's abundant 36 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: in the region thanks to the warm sea that covered 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: the area roughly forty five million years ago, and it 38 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: gives these buildings a consistent, creamy facade, often under a 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: gray zinc roof. Yeah, when you look at like wide 40 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: sweeping shots of Paris in movies if you've never personally 41 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: been there, that's what's behind that just sort of dreamy, 42 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: consistently colored look. Yeah, we should point out that that's 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: in part also because the city has had a lot 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: of regulation in place about what can be built and 45 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: how it can be built, and that things need to 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 1: look like they belong together, right right. This is especially 47 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: like in the central historic part of the city. If 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: you get out into the suburbs, it doesn't so much 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: look like that anymore. Some of this limestone came from 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: other parts of France, but a lot of it came 51 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: from under the city of Paris itself. This type of 52 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: limestone is so closely associated with the city that it's 53 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: often called Paris stone, but its more formal name is 54 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: Lutitian limestone. Geologists in the nineteenth century named it after Lutitia, 55 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: which was the Roman name for the city that we 56 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: now know as Paris. People were quarrying limestone, gypsum, and 57 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: other materials in what's now Paris all the way back 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: to antiquity. When this started around the first century, the 59 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: city was much smaller, mostly occupying the area just to 60 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: the south of the Seine and the islands in the 61 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: river itself. The earliest quarries were open pits to the 62 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: south of the city proper, but by the fourteenth century 63 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: people were mining limestone underground rather than using these open quarries, 64 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: and as the mines and the city both got bigger, 65 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: they eventually overlapped. Mines were primarily under what's now the 66 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: thirteenth and fourteenth Arrondiusment, but they also extended under a 67 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: lot of other parts of the city as well. Although 68 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: abandoned galleries within the mines were supposed to be filled 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: in in a lot of cases, this didn't always happen. 70 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: When it did happen, naturally, the fill material that was 71 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: used was never as strong or as stable as the 72 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: limestone that had been taken out. Basically, people were digging 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: limestone out from under Paris, bringing it above ground, and 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: making buildings out of it without necessarily reinforcing or bracing 75 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: the space they left behind. This sounds sort of like 76 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: the start of a sci fi movie on how to 77 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: do it wrong. Unsurprisingly, this led to some problems. Yeah, 78 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: Even under the best possible circumstances, it would be challenging 79 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: to simultaneously keep up with centuries of expansion in both 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: the city above and the mines below. This expansion, like 81 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: I said, it just took place over hundreds of years. 82 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: There was not a mass sister plan for the city 83 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: of Paris that was maintained consistently for all of that time. 84 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: And then when it came to what was happening underground, 85 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: a lot of the time nobody was keeping track of 86 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: the big picture with that at all. By the seventeen hundreds, 87 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: no one really had a sense of just how much 88 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: stone had been removed from under Paris or exactly where 89 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: the tunnels and galleries had been dug. And on top 90 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: of that, in places the mines had been dug in layers, 91 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: with one crew digging under a gallery that an earlier 92 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: crew had previously hollowed out. So in the late eighteenth century, 93 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: parts of Paris started collapsing into the mines underneath. This 94 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: crisis really peaked between seventeen seventy four and seventeen seventy eight, 95 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: and during that time as many as twenty people were killed. 96 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: That might sound like a pretty low death toll compared 97 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: to most of the disasters that we have talked about 98 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: on this show, but these collapses were so unpredictable and 99 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: frequent and dramatic that they were just terrifying. I don't 100 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: know about anybody else, but the idea that my house 101 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: might suddenly fall into a sink hole with that warning 102 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: is way scarier to me than anything else we're talking 103 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: about in the show. Today. People even blame these collapses 104 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: on the work of the devil. That makes sense, right. 105 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: The devil is below you, trying to shut your house down. 106 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: The first major collapse took place on December seventeenth, seventeen 107 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: seventy four, when a stretch of Rue d'anfair, the Street 108 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: of Hell, collapsed into a mine. Roughly three hundred meters 109 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: of road and adjacent buildings collapsed into a hole that 110 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: was at least twenty five meters deep. Other collapses followed 111 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,119 Speaker 1: that one. On September fifteenth, seventeen seventy six, King Louis 112 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: the sixteenth signed a decree closing the mines and prohibiting 113 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: digging under public roads. People who owned private land that 114 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: was situated over a mine were required to have that 115 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: mine inspected and reinforced. The king also dispatched an architect 116 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: named Antoine du Pont to inspect the damage. From this 117 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: collapse and to try to map them the mine system 118 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: as well as determine whether the private property owners were 119 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: in compliance with this requirement. On April fourth of the 120 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: following year, Louis the sixteenth issued another decree which established 121 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: a Department of General Corey Inspection. Award winning Royal architect 122 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Charles Axel Guillammeau was appointed as its first inspector. General 123 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: DuPaul stayed on as an engineer, although it's clear that 124 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: he and Guiamau did not really get along terribly well. 125 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: Gamo was given the task of mapping the minds and 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: making them safe, and he had the skills that experienced 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: to do this. At the same time, though this situation 128 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: was dire, Another major collapse occurred near the city center 129 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: on April twenty fourth, which was the day that he 130 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: started work, and this project was also massive. There were 131 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: about eight hundred hectares of mines under the city of Paris, 132 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: that's about three square miles or eight square kilometers. Guillemau 133 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: needed to map that entire system, including figuring out what 134 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: public roads in buildings were situated on the land above 135 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: and marking those landmarks with signs below. The King was 136 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: not quite so worried about what was under private land. 137 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: Gmo needed to reinforce and brace areas that were in 138 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,559 Speaker 1: danger of collapsing, and he developed a code for marking 139 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: support columns that would note when the column was placed 140 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: and who had done it. You can still see lots 141 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: of those down there today. Gmo had hundreds of men 142 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: working on this project, including laborers and cartographers, but there 143 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: was really no way to do all of this work 144 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: quickly enough to immediately prevent all future collapses. They kept 145 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: happening regularly over the next few years. In seventeen seventy eight, 146 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: a collapse in the neighborhood of Minimal killed seven people, 147 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: and it took weeks to find all of their bodies. 148 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: In addition to all of this mapping and stabilization work, 149 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: Giammo also took on another task, preparing the old minds 150 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: to receive human remains, and we're going to talk about 151 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: that after we first paused for a little sponsor break. 152 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: As the city of Paris was dealing with all these 153 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: collapsing roads and buildings, that was also dealing with another 154 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: major problem, and that was an over abundance of dead bodies. 155 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: As the city was expanding over what was essentially hollowed 156 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: out limestone. It had also really outgrown its available burial space. 157 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: In the centuries before the French Revolution, most people in 158 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: Paris were buried in cemeteries that were adjacent to their 159 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: parish churches. The city had thirty two such cemeteries, and 160 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: in most cases people were buried in mass graves rather 161 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: than individual plots. It was not unusual for these graves 162 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: to be dug as trenches and then left open until 163 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: they were full. It also was not unusual for the 164 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: same piece of land to be reused as time passed, 165 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: with a new mass grave being dug where an older 166 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: group of bodies had decomposed. As the city got bigger 167 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: and more crowded, though, this method of burial became less 168 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: and less workable homes and other buildings encroached on the cemeteries. 169 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: There were more bodies packed into the mass graves more tightly, 170 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: with less time passing before the same piece of ground 171 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: was needed to bury more people In an overcrowded graveyard, 172 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: there just wasn't enough organic material and oxygen available for 173 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: microorganisms to do the work required for decomposition, so there 174 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: were too many bodies and it was taking longer for 175 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: them to break down. Complicating all of this was the 176 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: fact that some of these same churchyards were also used 177 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: as communal green space, or they were next door to 178 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: those types of spaces. So, for example, if a market 179 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: was next door to or overlapping with a graveyard, that 180 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: graveyard might be littered with blood and offal from butchered 181 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: animals or rotting produce that had not been sold. Foul 182 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: air and the smell of decay became persistent problems on 183 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: top of the inherent grossness of that situation and the 184 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: fact that decaying bodies really can spread disease. At this 185 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: point in history, people blamed miasmas or bad air for 186 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: a range of illnesses. There was a lot of talk 187 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: about quote, cadaverous exhalations in these graveyards and the health 188 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: problems that they were causing. By the seventeen sixties, officials 189 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: in Paris were issuing reports detailing all kinds of problems 190 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: that were associated with the cemeteries, including thick and foul 191 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: smelling air and a range of mysterious illnesses. In seventeen 192 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: sixty five, an ordinance was passed outlawing burials in church cemeteries, 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: instead requiring new cemeteries to be built outside of the 194 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: city itself, but this ordinance was never enforced. People understandably 195 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: were upset by the idea that they could not be 196 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: buried in the same place that their loved ones had been. 197 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: In some cases, families had been buried in the same 198 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: church cemetery for generations. The Catholic Church also objected to 199 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: the plan because it meant that burials were going to 200 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: become secularized. Even though people generally objected to the idea 201 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: of moving the cemeteries outside the city, they continued to 202 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: be concerned about their unhealthful effects in the city. It 203 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: was kind of like a weird turnabout of the not 204 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: in my backyard problem. In addition to blaming illnesses on 205 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: bad cemetery air, people claimed that it was causing milk, meat, 206 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: and other food to spoil within hours. People also reported 207 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: wine turning into vinegar almost as soon as it was 208 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: opened because of all this cemetery funk. It's not clear 209 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: how much of this was real and how much was 210 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: an urban legend, but it's clear that people were really 211 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: fearful about whether these cemeteries were hurting them. In spite 212 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: of that, though, nothing really changed until seventeen eighty, and 213 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: that is when the situation at Cemthier de Saint Anossin, 214 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: or the Cemetery of Holy Innocence, became completely unmanageable. This 215 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: was the largest cemetery in Paris and also one of 216 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: the oldest. Burials had started there in antiquity and its 217 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: use as a cemetery was ongoing by the twelfth century. 218 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: In eleven eighty six, King Philippe the second Auguste had 219 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: a wall built around it as a mark of respect 220 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: for the dead, but then also with the hope of 221 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: discouraging people from using it as a public commons and 222 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: market space. At first, the wall worked pretty well for 223 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: this second purpose, but as the city grew, it was 224 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: treated more and more like a common green space and 225 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: the neighboring buildings got closer to it, some of them 226 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: right up against that wall. Although it was technically owned 227 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: by the adjacent Holy Innocence Church, this cemetery was operated 228 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: more like a public cemetery. Residents of eighteen different parishes 229 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: had burial rights there. Two hospitals and a morgue also 230 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: sent their bodies to Holy Innocence. By the eighteenth century, 231 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: about ten percent of the people who died in Paris 232 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: were being buried in that one place, and that was 233 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: far more than the space could handle. In seventeen eighty, 234 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: people started reporting extremely foul odors around the Cemetery of 235 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: the Holy Innocence, and they started filing official complaints. Then, 236 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: one night, a restaurant owner went into his cellar for 237 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: some wine and described himself as being totally overcome by 238 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: the smell. It turned out that the cemetery wall had collapsed, 239 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: filling the cellars of several homes with human remains. Newly 240 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: appointed Salubrity inspector Antoine Alexica de de Vaux investigated the 241 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: situation and filed a report stating that at least three 242 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: houses had been affected by poisonous gases seeping in from 243 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: the cemetery. Residents were reporting all kinds of health effects, 244 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: including delirium, respiratory issues, and vomiting. The inspector recommended that 245 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: they not only seal off the basements and disinfect the homes, 246 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: but also that the cemetery be closed entirely. Not long 247 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: after Louis the sixteenth government issued an ordinance calling the 248 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: Cemetery of Holy Innocence quote an intolerable and illegal threat 249 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: to the city. The burials stopped there that year seventeen eighty, 250 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: although the bodies that were already there stayed where they 251 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: were for the time being. People just didn't know what 252 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: to do with them. In seventeen eighty two, though, someone 253 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: writing under the name Villadieux published an essay proposing that 254 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: the bodies be moved down into the mines that were 255 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: under the city, which conveniently had just been undergoing this 256 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: whole mapping and reinforcement process. This is where the mind 257 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: story and the body story intersect, So before we get 258 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: to that, we will take another quick sponsor break. About 259 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: five years passed between the closing of the Cemetery of 260 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: the Holy Innocence, meaning when people stopped burying new bodies there, 261 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: and the removal of those bodies to the mines under 262 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: the city of Paris. The process started in December of 263 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty five, with bodies being removed from the cemetery 264 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: at night to try to avoid upsetting people and the 265 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: Catholic Church. On April seventh, seventeen eighty six, a portion 266 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,239 Speaker 1: of the mine system was consecrated as the Paris Municipal 267 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: Osuary At some point in this process of body relocation, 268 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: people started calling the area the Catacombs, after the Catacombs 269 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: of Rome. A lot of folks refer to this whole 270 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,119 Speaker 1: system of minds as the Catacombs, even though the osuary 271 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: is only one small part of it. Yeah, when we 272 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: were there, it was an interesting thing, and that they 273 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: talk about how huge it is, but what you walk 274 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: through is really a fairly short little section of it. 275 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: I think there's the perception, and I know I had 276 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: it that you would just kind of be turned loose 277 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: in this huge PLA. No, that is not the case. 278 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: The process of removing the bodies from the Cemetery of 279 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: the Holy Innocence took months, and it involved the remains 280 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: of more than twenty thousand people. The cemetery had been 281 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: so overcrowded that many of the bodies had supoontified, I 282 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: means the fats in the body turned into a soapy 283 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: substance rather than decomposing. Scientists Antoine Faercrois and Michel Turret 284 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: studied these bodies and coined the term at apisser to 285 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: describe what they were seeing. Once the bodies were all 286 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: gone out of the cemetery of the Holy Innocence. The 287 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: charle houses that were associated with the cemetery were torn down, 288 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: the ground was disinfected with lime, and concrete was poured 289 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: over the entire area. A fountain was installed in the 290 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: middle of this, and today the former Cemetery of the 291 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: Holy Innocence is the Fountain of Innocence, which is a 292 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: public plaza. Soon people living near other cemeteries started petitioning 293 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: for those bodies to be removed as well. One by one, 294 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: the cemeteries within the city were closed and emptied. These 295 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: remains weren't artfully arranged the way they are in the 296 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: catacombs today. For the most part, the bodies were just 297 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: put into it in piles. And then in the midst 298 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: of all this exhumation and body relocating, the French Revolution 299 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: started in seventeen eighty nine. Axel Guillemont was briefly imprisoned 300 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: during the revolution, in part because his position had been 301 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: a royal appointments, and in part because Antoine DuPont was 302 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: campaigning against him. Like we said earlier, they did not 303 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: seem to get along. I don't have all the detail 304 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: about exactly what went on there. There seems to have 305 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: been an ongoing power struggle, though all the church property 306 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: was nationalized in the fall of seventeen eighty nine and 307 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: including the cemeteries, but for the most part, this long 308 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: term effort of cemetery closures and body removals was put 309 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: on hold, especially as the French Revolution morphed into the 310 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: Reign of Terror. However, this was also one of the 311 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: few times when the recently dead were taken to the 312 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: catacombs rather than bodies that had already been interred in 313 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: a cemetery. A mass killing of prisoners was carried out 314 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: between September two and sixth the seventeen ninety two out 315 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: of fears that they might band together into counter revolutionary uprising. 316 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: More than one thousand prisoners were killed in what came 317 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: to be known as September massacres. Although some were buried 318 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: in cemeteries, most were placed in the catacombs, and the 319 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: ones that were buried in cemeteries were moved to the 320 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: catacombs when those cemeteries were emptied. Later. Napoleon came to 321 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: power in France in seventeen ninety nine, and the cemeteries 322 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: of Paris became part of the question of how the 323 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: French in general and Parisians specifically imagined theirselves in their 324 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: new society post revolution, there were still a lot of 325 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: public health concerns that surrounded the cemeteries that had been 326 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: there before the revolution, and then on top of that, 327 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: the violence and the recent horror of the Reign of 328 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: Terror made the subject of these overcrowded burial spaces and 329 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: the bodies in them a particularly sensitive one. People proposed 330 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,959 Speaker 1: sweeping reforms in multiple areas of society, including what the 331 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: city should look like and how bodies should be treated 332 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: after death. People started to imagine public cemeteries as places 333 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: that could be beautiful while also inspiring a sense of 334 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: morality and community ties. So during these years, a lot 335 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: of things happened that were connected to this idea of 336 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: how to make spaces for the dead, and what those 337 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,959 Speaker 1: spaces should mean to the living, and how all of 338 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: that connected to the greater idea of French society. Before 339 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: the revolution ended, the Church of Sant Genevieve had been 340 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: reimagined as the Pantheon, which was to house bodies of 341 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: some of France's most notable citizens, including Voltaire, Victor Hugo, 342 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: emil Zola, Alexandre dumat Pierre, and Marie Currie. There had 343 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: been a few burials in what is now Perlichez Cemetery 344 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: before this point, but the cemetery as it exists today 345 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: was opened in eighteen oh four. It was designed by 346 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: architect Alexandre Teo d'Or Brognere an urban planner Nicholas Rocheaut. 347 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: It was France's first garden cemetery, which was a cemetery 348 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: style that became popular in North America and parts of 349 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: Europe in the nineteenth century. Garden cemeteries were also called 350 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: rural cemeteries, and they were meant to provide a sanitary 351 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: way to bury the dead, but also to serve as 352 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: a public park land and to reinforce romantic ideals that 353 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: were connected to nature and hygiene. The bodies of a 354 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: number of notable people were moved to Perliches, including abbal 355 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Ard and Heloise, and today it's one of the city's 356 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: most popular tourist attractions. I went there on our trip 357 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: to Paris, and it is beautiful and it does all 358 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: the things that those types of cemeteries were supposed to inspire, 359 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: which is like walking through nature and contemplating mortality in 360 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: a peaceful, serene environment. Other similar cemeteries followed, both in 361 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: France and elsewhere underground, though the bodies that had been 362 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: placed in the catacombs were mostly left unattended from the 363 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: start of the French Revolution through the early eighteen hundreds. 364 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: By then, in spite of the earlier work that Gumo 365 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: had done, the catacombs were once again unsafe. Collapses and 366 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: sinkholes continued, although on a smaller scale than they had 367 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: at the end of the eighteenth century. Plus part of 368 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: the system was now full of remains in various states 369 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: of decay. The mines stayed cool year round, but they're 370 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: also very damp, so the remains had been affected by 371 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: moisture and rot. But in March of eighteen oh nine, 372 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: Luis Etien Rica de Tuy was appointed to the Underground 373 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: Department of Mines and Quarries, and he undertook a project 374 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: to turn what had basically just been an underground body 375 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: dump into a monument that was suitable for public admission. 376 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: This is when the bones were arranged in the way 377 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: that they are today, with the long bones and the 378 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: skulls backed up florida ceiling where you can see them, 379 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: and smaller bones and bone pieces tucked away behind. There 380 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: are some spots if you go down there, where you 381 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: can get a peek at the smaller bones and these 382 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: fragments as well. There are placards around that note in 383 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: a general way which cemetery the bones came from and 384 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: when they were placed in the catacombs. The catacombs open 385 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: to the public just four months after Eric al Detur 386 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: took on this project. Visitors pass under a carving that 387 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: reads arete say e see lampert de la more or 388 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: stop this is the Empire of death. There are also 389 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: placards carved with quotations about death, which ric Cardo Turri 390 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: decided to add in eighteen ten. Other than that, the 391 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: decorations are really minimal. Little has changed about the catacombs 392 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: themselves since the early nineteenth century, and the last deposit 393 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: of bones happened in eighteen sixty. The biggest edition since 394 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: then is the electric lighting, which it now has. Even 395 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: though this osuary was created because people were afraid of 396 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: the negative effects that dead bodies were having in their neighborhoods, 397 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: the catacombs with the bodies in them quickly became a 398 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: tourist attraction. Ere Car de Touri placed a guestbook at 399 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: the exit. In between July of eighteen oh nine and 400 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: August of eighteen thirteen, visitors left their impressions of the 401 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: catacombs in it as they left. General reactions in this 402 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: guest book were all over the place, although a lot 403 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: of people may notes along the lines of here one 404 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: can learn how to live, or some variation of Memento 405 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: mauri or remember you will die, which is also the 406 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: name of a gift shop in Magic Kingdom. It is yes, 407 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: I love it. Guests also observed how the placement of 408 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: the anonymous, indistinguishable bones illustrated that all people are equal 409 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: in death. This was particularly true since the cemeteries that 410 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: had been emptied included the bodies of famous and influential people, 411 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: including Maximilian Robespierre. Throughout their existence, the mines under Paris 412 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: have been used for a range of purposes that really 413 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with getting limestone or dealing with 414 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: excess bodies. Researchers started working in the catacombs of the 415 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, studying everything from the anatomy and pathology of 416 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: the bones to whether anything could or did live down there. 417 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: Photographer Gaspar Felix Tornachal, known as Felix Nadar studied the 418 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: use of artificial light in photography down there. He patented 419 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: the light source that he used to photograph the catacombs 420 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one. People also hid in them during 421 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: the Revolution and the World Wars and other times of strife, 422 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: and the minds, of course have been put to all 423 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: kinds of criminal use, including being used by smugglers and 424 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: people just hiding out from the law. Even though so 425 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: much work was done to map and stabilize the mines, 426 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: they are still prone to collapse in flooding and it 427 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: is easy to get lost. For these reasons, entry into 428 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: them was outlawed on November two of nineteen fifty five. 429 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: Visitors to the catacombs are allowed to walk only through 430 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: a designated section. As we mentioned before, it's brief, which 431 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 1: is fenced off from the rest of the mines and 432 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: parts of the austuary that are off limits to visitors. 433 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: It is basically a one way tour. You go down 434 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: the steps to get in there, you walk in a 435 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: linear fashion through it and then go out, and there 436 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: is just a massive system beyond that that people are 437 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: not allowed into. Even so, today there is a whole 438 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: subculture of catacomb officionados who are known as cataphiles, who 439 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: have their own slang and their own rules of behavior 440 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: and etiquette. They've used some of this space, the space 441 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: that folks are not supposed to access to create artwork, 442 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: including graffiti and carving's. Cataphiles access the minds through little 443 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: known entrances, through things like sewers and sellers and other openings. 444 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: There's a whole police department that is tasked with trying 445 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: to find those and close them off because it can 446 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: be very dangerous down there. As I was researching this, 447 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: I found a news story about a couple of teenagers 448 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: who were lost down there for days, and that was 449 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: just within the last couple of years. There is apparently 450 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: a lot of people who hang out down there all 451 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: the time, fortunately with no injuries or deaths involved, but 452 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: they are still still a dangerous place to go, especially 453 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: without knowing your way around or how to deal with 454 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: stuff down there. Yeah. I mean even you know, as 455 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: you're walking through the area that you are allowed into, 456 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: you can see they are fenced off, as we mentioned, 457 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: but you can see down some of those other areas 458 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: and it goes to pitch blackness in a hurry, I 459 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: can't imagine being lost down there, particularly if you have 460 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: maybe lost power on your phone or something. I would 461 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: be terrified, not because I am afraid of the bones, 462 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: but just because I am trapped in a place where 463 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: I can't see and no one knows where I am. Yeah, 464 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: and you have no cell phone signal. There's really no 465 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: way to get a signal down there. You can find 466 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: on the internet and they will be in the show 467 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: notes various like magazine features by folks who have gained 468 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: the trust of some cataphiles to be able to be 469 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: guided down there, and several of them have harrowing moments 470 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: where they're like, I have to crawl through this little 471 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: tunnel that I can barely fit through. Rubble is raining 472 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 1: down on me, and I can tell that the metro 473 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: is directly above my head. What if something happens like 474 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: there's no nope, nopelope. Anytime you're crawling through a tunnel 475 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: you barely fit through, I'm out. I'm yeah. Well, it 476 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: reminds me in a lot of ways of caving. I 477 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: know a lot of people go caving, yeah, like an 478 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: adventure sport, and that can also be very dangerous. I 479 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: don't understand why you would choose that over having a 480 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: delicious meal. I just don't understand. I know it's very 481 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: thrilling for some people. I have a friend who's an 482 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: adrenaline junkie. I never understand why she wants to do 483 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: the thing she does. She must think I'm the dullest 484 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: human on the planet. I'm like, yes, but bacon, there's 485 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: happiness to be gained in other places. Yeah, but the catacombs, 486 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it goes without saying it is a huge 487 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 1: tourist attraction, but I really do highly recommend visiting if 488 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: you're in Paris. The thing that struck me when we 489 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: were there this time, I'm a little older and theoretically wiser, 490 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: and it really was more than anything. It made me 491 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: think about the equalizing nature of death in a way 492 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: that was very reassuring and not upsetting at all. It 493 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: was really really lovely, and I'm grateful that I had 494 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: the chance to return. Yeah, especially in the post French Revolution, 495 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: with the you know, the the ideals of the French Revolution, 496 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: especially at the beginning, being about equality and fraternity. That 497 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: like that that presentation of the bones is being this 498 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: sort of universal equalizing I think was intentional. I was 499 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: more struck by just how many there are, because Paris 500 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: as a city has been you know, a large depending 501 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: on how you know large in quotation marks, depending on 502 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: what period of time, But it has been inhabited as 503 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: a city for so long, and what do you do 504 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: with the remains of your dead when you run out 505 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: of room? And so like my fascination with it, I 506 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: think was like a lot more with just the more 507 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: pragmatic idea of like, oh, what do we do with 508 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: all of our bodies? Right? Thanks so much for joining 509 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of 510 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: the archive, if you heard an email address or a 511 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: Facebook RL or something similar over the course of the show, 512 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: that could be obsolete now. Our current email address is 513 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 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