1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text stuff from dot com. 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Kay there, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: and today I wanted to do a quick update to 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: an episode that first published November eight, two thousand thirteen. 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: In that episode, Joe McCormick joined the show to talk 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: about an ancient computer we anti kither One mechanism. Now, 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: the mechanism is a really cool device, and Joe and 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun and talking about it. 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: But I don't want to spoil my surprise, so let's 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: run the episode and I'll tell you the exciting news 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: stuff at the end. I gave Joe the ability to 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: choose whatever topic he wanted to pick, as long as 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't something that we had, you know, covered extensively 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: in tech stuff in the past. So, Joe, why would 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: you like to talk about? Well, Um, on forward Thinking, 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: we usually talk about the future or another and um 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: so I wanted to go in completely the opposite direction 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: and talk about the technology of the past. And I 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: started thinking, I wonder, what's the oldest computer that we 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: know about? Oh, I got you. So we're talking nineteen 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: forty six with any ac right that computer that you 22 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: would end up programming with lots of plugs and switches, 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: not at all. Wow, no, so wait are you you're 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: saying it's older than that? Older? Okay? All right, well fine, 25 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: how about the ninety two that's the Tennis Soft Berry 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: Computer or ABC, which was built at Iowa State College 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: which now university obviously, but it was there was a 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: patent dispute actually, that was decided in the United States 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: government about whether any AC or the ABC computer were first, 30 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: and ultimately they said that it, uh, you could not 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: have anyone to claim they were the ones to invent 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: the computer. That's the first one, right, ABC computer. Okay, 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Light ninety one. We're starting to get a little fuzzy here, 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: but all right. So Conrad Zeus builds the Z three 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: computer and that was also the same year when the 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: first BOMBA was built, you know, one of the devices 37 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: meant to help decrypt German messages. That's it, right, alright. 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: Ninety nine George Stibbitts completes the complex number calculator the 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: C and C at Bell Telephone Laboratories. We just finished 40 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: talking about Bell Labs. This has got to be it. 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: And even in the first demonstration he used teletype so 42 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: that he could program this remotely over special telephone line. 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: So it was the first remote computer as well. So 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: that's it, right, I think you need to think less electricity. Fine, Fine, 45 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty seven. The Analytical Engine. Charles Babbage. He designs this, 46 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: never finishes it in his lifetime. But of course that 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: is the device that Ada Lovelace, the Enchantress of numbers, 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: had possibly even created computer programs for algorithms where she 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: envisioned a time where you could encode things like music 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: and poetry into mathematics. That's it, the analytical engine. Okay, 51 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: so we're gonna talk about that. No, you're you're about 52 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: two years off. Say what I'm not not about almost okay, 53 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: so what are you talking about? I'm talking about something 54 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: that is called the antique antique antique. Oh, we're gonna 55 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: have this problem the whole time. The anti Cithera me Yes, 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: the anti Cithera mechanism or also known as the anti 57 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: Kathera mechanism. Yeah, it all depends on the r which 58 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: pronunciation you followed. Anti Cuithera seems to be fairly commonplace. 59 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: So we're gonna go ahead and use that one and 60 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: probably switch off without even thinking about it. All right, 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: I know a little bit about this, but I guess 62 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: before we talk about this mechanism, maybe we need to 63 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: say what the heck is Anti Cithera. For anyone who 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: is not familiar with the the geography of Greece, you 65 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: may not know this. This refers to a place. Yeah, 66 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: it's an island in the Mediterranean Sea. And if you, um, 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: if you imagine you're looking at the Mediterranean, it's the 68 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: small island that's between Crete to the south and the 69 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: Peloponnesian Peninsula up to the north, so the mainland of Greece, 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: and it's right there in the middle. Um, there's a 71 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: bigger island just called Kythera, and this is a smaller 72 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: one offset from it, called Anti So if Anti Cithera 73 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: and Kithera were to collide, it would just destroy one another. 74 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: Total positronic revers Yeah, you tell him about the twinkie, 75 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: so you know, joking aside. Does that mean that this 76 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: is where that mechanism was was made? Um? No, probably not. 77 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: This is where the mechanism was discovered. It got its name, gotcha. 78 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: So someone was walking around Anti Cithera one day and 79 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: they stubbed their toe and oh, what's this and found 80 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: the world's oldest computer. No, it's much creepier. Um. Okay, 81 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: So the story goes like this. Around the r nineteen hundred, 82 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: there was a group of sponged divers who were off 83 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: the coast of Antikithera and they were doing their diving 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: and just whatever sponge divers do. They were gathering sponges, 85 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: gathering sponges to wash all their dishes exactly. Um. So 86 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: they were doing their thing. But apparently one of the 87 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: divers came up to the surface and he was like, guys, 88 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: there are dead women lying all over the bottom of 89 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: the ocean. There's a bunch of naked dead ladies at 90 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean. Yet sounds creepy. But statos. Yeah, 91 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: Actually what he was seeing were statues. They were bronze 92 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: and marble statues that were part of the payload of 93 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: a almost well I guess about exactly to year old 94 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: ship wreck of a ship that was a Roman ship, 95 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: a large Roman ship carrying a lot of cargo, much 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: of it probably stolen or looted cargo. Right, we're talking 97 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 1: at an era just around the time when the Romans 98 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: were beginning to uh let's say, incorporate the Hellenistic societies 99 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: into their empire. Of course, So it had all these 100 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: Greek artifacts on it, Yeah, luxury items, like really expensive 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: stuff in the Greek world. Yeah. And so the idea is, 102 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what the ship was doing. We 103 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: think it was probably a ship that was returning to 104 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: Rome from some destination uh in the Greek world. And 105 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: so there are a lot of these Greek artifacts, including currency. Uh. 106 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: They had like you said, statues, they had lots of pottery, um, 107 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: and they had this this device, which was well, at first, 108 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: it was just a lump, right, yeah, right, yeah first. Well, 109 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,119 Speaker 1: and of course it didn't get that much attention early 110 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: on because there was so much other stuff down there 111 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,239 Speaker 1: in that shipwreck. Right, So the people who went into 112 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: really investigate the shipwreck and take a look and see 113 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: what was going on, they didn't necessarily realize that there 114 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: was something truly special, something that was beyond just uh 115 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: special from an artistic merit point of view, but could 116 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: tell us a lot about how much the ancient Greeks 117 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: knew about craftsmanship, about astronomy, about math, all of these 118 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: things we've become apparent. But only a hundred years later, 119 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: right after the explorer. So so it it's it's forgotten 120 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,119 Speaker 1: for two thousand years essentially, and then for another hundred 121 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: years we don't really know what it is. So it's 122 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of this lump of corroded bronze inside what what 123 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: used to be a wooden box essentially disintegrated. Yeah, so 124 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: there's like there's one big remaining lump, but they're about 125 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: eighty two fragments in total, right, So one of those fragments, 126 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: the main fragment, has the vast majority of the what 127 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: we know of as the inner workings of whatever this 128 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: device was supposed to be. And we know a lot 129 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: more about now, but don't want to ruin the surprise, no, 130 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: But so basically we can say like what it was 131 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: made of. So what they think now is, Okay, this 132 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: looks like it was some kind of collection of bronze 133 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: gears inside of a wooden casing. Yeah. In fact, at 134 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: first they thought it might only be just one gear 135 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: that somehow was loose from something else, and then they realized, no, 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: there's actually several gears here, but it's all corroded together. Yeah, 137 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of like a fused into a big 138 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: bottom of the ocean snotball, Yeah exactly, that's very accurate. Um. 139 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: But so if you can imagine I would call like 140 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: imagine a mid sized dictionary, not like a pocket dictionary, 141 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: but also not that huge one from the library that 142 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: you couldn't see it on a pedestal, like a like 143 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: a large hardback dictionary. Um. And it's got a wooden casing, 144 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: so you could open that casing up and then inside 145 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: you've got this corroded mass that uh, that is all 146 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: this gear formation. Now, of course the wooden casing doesn't 147 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: really remain except in rotted fragmentary form. Um. But that's 148 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: the basic mechanism we're dealing with. And if you start 149 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: to look at it, you would see this one big 150 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: gear um, but you might wonder what does this thing do? Yeah? 151 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: And beyond that, I mean, before we even get to that, 152 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: like how old is this thing? Oh? Yeah, because I 153 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: mean we we figured that the shipwreck happens sometime around 154 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: eighty five b C. E before common eras because mostly 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: because of the dates that we found and I say we, 156 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: but the explorers found on the currency. Yeah. You know, 157 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: sometimes Joe and I we get we get tired of 158 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: working on stuff or four thinking we pop out to 159 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: the Greek islands and then just go well skin diving. Yeah, 160 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, and X, by the way does mark the 161 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: spot now, but we by dating things like the currency, 162 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: they have sort of narrowed the ranged around eight five 163 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: b C. But that that doesn't necessarily mean that's how 164 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: old the device is. No, they think that the device 165 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: is older than the wreck, so it wasn't built like 166 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: right before that. It's generally dated between a hundred and 167 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty b C. So it's thought of 168 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: as a second century b c E device, Right, So 169 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: so it is an ancient device. Uh, that's seems to 170 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: be about how old it is. Uh, we've got some 171 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: ideas of where it may have come from. There were some, No, 172 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: we don't we don't have any The instruction manual for 173 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: this device was not anywhere to be found. It was 174 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: not on the glove compartment of this shipwreck, so we 175 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: can't be absolutely certain. Uh. There's some speculation that maybe 176 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: it was the island of Rhodes, which was known for 177 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: its scholarship and also it's craftsmanship. But there are some 178 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: other options as well that we can talk about. But 179 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: beyond that. Um, we've talked about what was made of, 180 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: we talked about how old it was, but yeah, what 181 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: what did this thing do? And at first it was 182 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: a real mystery. In fact, for like we said, like 183 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: a century, it was a mystery. We just didn't have 184 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: enough information to be able to determine that. We had 185 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: some wild guests. There were people who made some good guesses, 186 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: but they didn't know the full extent yet. Um, and 187 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: that they didn't realize initially how awesome this thing was. 188 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: You know, we can make an argument that this is 189 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: the oldest computer, which obviously means that it has to 190 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: do more than just have some inner work, inner working 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: gears that move smoothly. It has to do something beyond that, 192 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: because otherwise anything that was reliant on gears and clockwork 193 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: you could call a computer. But we'll get into exactly 194 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: what it is that this thing did. That kind of 195 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: makes us consider it more of a computer device and 196 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: analog computer than some sort of interesting clockwork. Right. So, um, 197 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: but in general, what we understand it to have been 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: able to do, and in fact, we understand a lot 199 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: more about it in very recent years than we had 200 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: for the century leading up to it. Oh well, I'd say, 201 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,359 Speaker 1: now we've basically had a slam dunk in this one. 202 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: Recent recent revelations have shown us, oh, this is pretty 203 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: much exactly what it is, Yeah, which is phenomenal when 204 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: you think of how badly in repair this thing was. 205 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: But but ultimately what it does is it's it's a 206 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: device that not only tracks celestial events and the movement 207 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: of celestial bodies in relation into our perspective here on Earth, 208 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: it also predicts them. So in other words, you not 209 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: only can you can you keep track of what's going on, 210 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: and it could give you an indication of where you 211 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: would need to look in the sky if you wanted 212 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: to see something like Mars. It also would tell you that, oh, 213 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: on this particular date, you will have a full solar eclipse. 214 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: It's kind of cool, yeah, In other words, an astronomical 215 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: calculatory UM. And so what it would do is you 216 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: would have a position of the Earth and then UM 217 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: by moving the hand crying which which no longer exists, 218 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: but that's that's what figure. It was a hand crank 219 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: that that provided the the kinetic energy to make everything turn. 220 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: But by moving that you could see at the same 221 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: time based on a projected date in the future, the 222 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: positions of the Sun, of the Moon, um, probably of 223 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: the planets we don't know the planet gears are missing, 224 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: probably the at least the plants that the Greeks knew about, 225 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: which included the probably not the planetists, probably not the 226 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: we don't think well, not Neptune Uranus or or if 227 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: you want to be kind, Pluto um. They they had 228 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: identified as far out as Saturn. Now, if in fact 229 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: we were to find evidence that it included these other 230 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: planets as well, that as far as we know, they 231 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: didn't know about, then that would make the third part 232 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: of our conversation they get a little more interesting. It 233 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: also had yeah, as you said, an eclipse prediction dial 234 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: uh and that's really cool. Uh. And it also predicted 235 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: cultural events, So that's true, like the Olympiad, right, because 236 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: you had a schedule of when that would take place, 237 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: and so by plotting it against this device and actually 238 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: inscribing it on the device, you could in a factor 239 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: then you could see what the what the celestial events 240 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: were going to be at a planned future event that way, 241 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: which is kind of handy. Um. But we'll talk specifically. 242 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: We need to really get into the nitty gritty of 243 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: how this is possible, and then we'll conclude at the 244 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: end talking about how we know all of this stuff, because, 245 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: as you're gonna learn, it's really complicated to figure out 246 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: how a device works if you can't actually visualize all 247 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: the gears when you first get hold of it. Before 248 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: we get into that conversation, let's take a quick break 249 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. Alright, we're back, so let's talk 250 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: about how this device actually tracked celestial events, because we 251 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: we know they are all these gears. There's a hand 252 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: cranky turn. It moves things forwards that you can look 253 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: at what the celestial conditions are on any given date, 254 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: or you can even advance it so that you can 255 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: look for a specific celestial event. Let's say you're looking 256 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: specifically for when is the next eclipse going to occur, 257 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: So you're not looking to see what the celestial scott 258 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: what the sky is going to look like, um, three 259 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: months from now, you just want to know when the 260 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: next eclipse is. You could advance the handle from your 261 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: date and keep doing it until you saw the eclipse 262 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: information come up, and then compare that see what the 263 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: date is on the other part of the indicator. We'll 264 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: talk about all the different dials. This should be indicated 265 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: by a dial, so it's like a it's like an 266 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: analog clock face. You would be spinning around a point 267 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: to let you know when this is coming exactly. And 268 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: then you could say, oh, all right, so the next 269 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: eclipse is in you know, you know, three months and 270 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: two weeks from now or whatever. And uh so there's 271 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways you could use this. Well, um, 272 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: there were about thirty thirty one gears that we know of, 273 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: probably the least at least more or at least thirty, 274 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: probably more. So it's I think hypothesized that there were 275 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: more to deal with the movement of the planets that 276 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: that's just lost. And you know, it's not a surprise 277 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: because again, like I said, when we call it bad repair, 278 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: I mean you're you think about this. This is like 279 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: essentially the imagine a clock that's been fused into one piece. 280 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: I mean, an old style gear clock fused into one piece. 281 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: That's kind of and it's it's opaque, so you can't 282 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: see these gears that are on the inside just with 283 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: the naked eye. But we'll get into how we figured 284 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: more about this in a little bit. But so you 285 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: had all these different dials that would mark different events, 286 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: uh and different time spans. Right, So you would have 287 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: a dial that would be set up for, uh, for 288 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: just regular keeping of of a calendar year. But there 289 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: were also dials that were more attuned to specific celestial cycles. 290 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: So for example, there might be a nineteen year cycle 291 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: that's represented by one dial, another one had i I 292 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: think a seventy five year dial. And these dials were 293 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: to refer to things that patterns that would repeat once 294 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: you hit those time frames, so like every nineteen years, 295 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: this one set of pattern would repeat itself. So that's 296 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: why they have these different dials to indicate exactly what's 297 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: happening at exactly what time. Uh. What I loved was 298 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: the idea that there was one gear specifically devoted to 299 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: showing the phase of the moon. So not only would 300 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: you see the position of the moon on any given date, 301 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: but you would also see what phase it was in, 302 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: whether it was waxing or waning, a new moon, full moon, whatever, 303 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: and and uh, I really thought that was very clever. 304 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: So yeah, you essentially either either refer to the dates 305 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: and look at the celestial events to compare the two, 306 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: or you had said it, so that you would look 307 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: at a specific configuration of the celestial body and then 308 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: look at what date corresponded to it. It's um kind 309 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: of amazing to imagine the complex planning and craftsmanship that 310 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: went into a machine like this, because, um, when you 311 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: start thinking about it, Okay, say somebody set you down 312 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: and told you to try to build something like this, 313 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: and you had you know, it was open book test. 314 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: You knew what time frame all these celestial events would 315 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: occur in. How would you do it? Yeah, I mean God, 316 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: so you would have kind of figure out the relationships 317 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: between the sizes of gears um and the way they 318 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: would lock to create fractional relationships between the movements of 319 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: all the different bodies at the same time. And keep 320 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: in mind that if this thing is reflecting say planets 321 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, well, from a geocentric point of view, 322 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: the movement of the planets is not just a simple circle. 323 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean you see them, they persiss and then they 324 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: go backwards and all of these things exactly. So if 325 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: you and there's a fellow named Michael T. Wright who 326 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: built a replica of this device, and we'll talk more 327 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: about him probably in a bit, but he there's a 328 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: great video that demonstrates him using this machine to show 329 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: the movement of these different elements, and sometimes you see 330 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: them moving kind of backward compared to other elements, and 331 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: you think, wow, the gears have to account for that too. 332 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: The gears have to be able to do very complex 333 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: movements of these uh, these these arms that are on 334 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: these dials in order to reflect what is really happening. 335 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: And while the model itself uh does depict a geocentric 336 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: view of celestial bodies, we can't be sure that the 337 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: person who built it necessarily ascribed necessararily ascribed to a 338 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: geocentric philosophy. Oh, that's certainly true, because for the device's function, 339 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean it was, it was functionally geocentric, right, because 340 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: we're from exactly. Even if the person who made it 341 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: actually thought the Earth went around the Sun, it would 342 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: still look the same pretty much, because if you're reflecting 343 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: how the world, how the how the celestial you know, 344 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: elements look compared to being on the Earth, it makes 345 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: no sense to make it anything other than geocentric. So 346 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,239 Speaker 1: the heliocentric theories had been placed ahead of when we 347 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: think this device was made. So it's possible we don't know, 348 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: because there were still people who who's ascribed to a 349 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: geocentric worldview. I'd probably that was dominant, Yeah, because because 350 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: it was similar to what we would see centries later, 351 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: where to propose such a thing as a helos heliocentric 352 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: view would mean that you might suffer a little bit 353 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: of let's say, you might get ostracized with extreme prejudice. 354 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: People didn't like here in that. Yeah. So anyway, you know, 355 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: it does look like it was going to show you 356 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: not only the Sun and Moon's movements, which is already 357 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: complex enough because they don't move at the same you 358 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: know rate, or you know, they change positions, uh differently 359 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: relative to one another. Then to throw in the other 360 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: planets makes that or the plants that the Greeks knew about, 361 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: makes it even more complex. So here's the question, does 362 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: this count as a computer? I would say absolutely. I 363 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: would say so too, And I've got a little argument here. 364 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: Tell me what you think of so um, I'd say 365 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: the basic definition of a computer. A lot of times 366 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: it's included that it's electronic. But let's take that part 367 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: out and say, well, whether or not it's electronic. UM, 368 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: A computers like an interactive machine that and and these 369 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: words often come up, store, retrieve, and process data. That's fair. Um, 370 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: so it's like input, output and processing and storage. Yeah. 371 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: I always think of it as something that can can 372 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: take input, put it through some form of algorithm, meaning 373 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: a set of rules, and then give you output on 374 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: the other side. And it's predictable. It's going to do 375 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: that the same way. Like, assuming that you put in 376 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: the same input and you're running it through the same algorithm, 377 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: you're always going to get the same output. Okay, so 378 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: both definitions work very well together. Yeah, I'd say the 379 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: biggest distinction is that today's computers we think of as 380 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: being general use. So you you have hardware that can compute, 381 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: but you've also got software to boss the hardware around, 382 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: so it can tell it to compute in different ways. Right. 383 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: So in that way, you can have a single machine 384 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: allow you to do Excel spreadsheets or play you know, 385 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: the first person shooter game. Right. But obviously without electronics, 386 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: this this ancient computer doesn't have software. It just has hardware. 387 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: Or it's like thinking about a computer that can only 388 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: run one program, which is not that difficult to imagine. 389 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you think of calculators as 390 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: a subset of computers. Calculators like your basic calculator. I'm 391 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: not talking about your super crazy calculators that have apps 392 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: on them and everything, but your basic calculator does basic 393 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: calculator functions. It's, you know, again, taking that input, putting 394 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: it through an algorithm, some sort of mathematical process, and 395 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: you get an output similar to this device. Yeah. So 396 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: this device, it's like a computer that only has one job. 397 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: But within that job, I think it's definitely worth saying 398 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: it's a computer because its stores data. So the relationships 399 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: between the astronomical pathways are represented by the mechanical math 400 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: that's done between the teeth and the gears. So like 401 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: the gear sizes themselves, they're sort of storing that data. 402 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: Sure um. And then it takes input. You turn the 403 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: hand crank to give it the input of the date 404 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: you want to calculate, and then it gives you output. 405 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: It's got the dials that reflect the computed values of 406 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: the of what you're looking for. And even as I 407 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: have said before, you could do it the other way 408 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: where you keep turning the dial until you get the 409 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: configuration you were interested in, and then you look at 410 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: the date right, so it works in either sense, and uh, 411 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal. I mean, it's when you think about how 412 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: precise you have to be to make sure you get this, 413 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: and not only that, but just the huge amount of 414 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: information you have to have at your disposal to even 415 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: start in the craftsmanship of this thing. Because the Greeks 416 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: had a lot of of information about astronomy, some of 417 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: it they got from the Babylonians, So the Babylonians were 418 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: known as very much interested in astronomy. The Greeks were 419 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: as well, and so they had to have had all 420 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: this observation data that they had, the things that they 421 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: had observed about the movement of celestial objects in the 422 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: sky and how those patterns would arise in order for 423 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: them to plan that out into a mechanical device. And 424 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: that to me is really amazing because you're not talking about, oh, 425 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, every four weeks, this one event happens. Now, 426 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: some of these cycles, like I said, are incredibly long. 427 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: You had a nineteen year cycle, you had a seventy 428 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: six year cycle, you had a fifty four year cycle. 429 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: All of these were taken into account to explain the 430 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: movement of celestial objects in various ways, whether it's a 431 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse, or that you get 432 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: both a lunar and a solar eclipse within a certain 433 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: amount of time, not to mention the movement of the 434 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: other planets. That's a lot of information that you have 435 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: to have compiled before you ever cut into a sheet 436 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: of bronze. Uh. Yes, it certainly is. And and even 437 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: harder is imagining how you would begin to compute that data. Yeah, 438 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: I mean nobody. Um, well, actually this is a good question, Um, 439 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: had anybody ever made anything like this before? Obviously we 440 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: don't know for sure, right, Well, we don't have evidence 441 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: this is the earliest existing device. In fact, we don't 442 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: have any other devices to point to. Uh. And let's 443 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: be clear when we're calling it the earliest known computer 444 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean we think that there's nothing that 445 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: like this that could have come before. It just means 446 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: the it's the earliest one that we have, so and 447 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: we don't have any others. It's not like there are 448 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: you know, twenty other examples of this. In fact, if 449 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: you want to look at for another object that's as 450 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: complex as this one, you have to go about fifteen 451 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: hundred years further into the early Renaissance and look at 452 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: the Middle East, China, and Europe for devices that start 453 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: to equal this level of complexity. However, these historians of 454 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: mechanical engineering, they say, this kind of stuff doesn't show 455 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: up until late medieval clockwork. It's like, yeah, at the earliest. Yeah. 456 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: So when you take that into account, you think, well, 457 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: you know, is this is this an anomaly? Is it 458 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: a one offite some mad genius come up with us? 459 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: But if you if you were to actually carefully examine 460 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: those gears, and we'll talk more about how people have 461 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: done that over the last decade or so, if you 462 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: were to very carefully examine them, you would see that 463 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: they appear to have been made flawlessly, like there were 464 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: no mistakes. Uh. You know, a lot of experts have 465 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: said that if you were to build, say a clock, 466 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: and it's your first clock, it may be a functional clock, 467 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: but if you were to look at the clockwork, you 468 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: might see where there were mistakes that were made and 469 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: then corrected for later on. There No, there's no evidence 470 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: of that in this device, which suggests that whoever built 471 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: it had done it at least a few times before 472 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: to perfect the whole process before building another one. Yeah, 473 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: and combined with the fact that this thing is just 474 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: so smart, that suggests it was probably not the only 475 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 1: one of its kind. It probably came from a line 476 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: of similar devices, maybe of advancing complexity. And you might think, well, 477 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: if this is the case, where the heck is everything 478 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: else and well, some of it could just be lost 479 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: or destroyed. And also being made out of bronze means 480 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: that it's a valuable resource which occasionally for other purposes, 481 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: like I don't know, war, you would melt down so 482 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: that you could use it for other stuff. Yeah, I 483 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: mean think we're talking about the first and second century 484 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: b C. In the Hellenistic world. I mean it's it's 485 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: a time when stuff might have gotten grabbed and taken 486 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: to another place, melted down, or just lost, just like 487 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: just like this one was lost. There's stuff going on 488 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: if you look at uh, and we should mention this 489 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in History Class Sister podcast they did 490 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: an episode on this same topic. Fantastic episode, highly recommended, 491 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: You should definitely go listen to it. Um. But one 492 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: of the things they pointed out was that if you 493 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: look at bronze statues from that era, they're very very 494 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: few of them, and I think like nine out of 495 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: ten came from shipwrecks because the ones that were left 496 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: on land, more frequently than not had been melted down 497 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: for other purposes. So it's it's one of those There 498 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: was not necessarily a sense of permanency in the time 499 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: of the world. Okay, so we don't have, like, in 500 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: terms of archaeology, another device like this from the time. 501 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: Has anybody ever described a device like this from the time? Uh, 502 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: that's a good question. Do you have any actual information 503 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: on that? Because when I was looking forward, I was 504 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: it seemed to me at the time that everyone was 505 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: absolutely shocked by this device because it didn't seem to 506 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: have any kind of shock, shocked to the point where 507 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: they were wondering if it was perhaps a hoax, that 508 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: maybe someone had planted this thing and it was a fake. 509 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: But but it may be that there are sources I'm 510 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm aware of. Do you know any I think there 511 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: are ancient descriptions of ore ries. Okay, so those are 512 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't be exactly like this, but sort of ancient models 513 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: of the movement of the Planet's interesting, so it Yeah, 514 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: and of course we do know that there were philosophers 515 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: who had described uh, the very motions that this device 516 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: enacted that you know they were they were just describing 517 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: it for scholarly purposes, and this device would show that 518 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: in action if you were to move the handle. Well, 519 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: here's an interesting question. Who built this thing? Yeah? Where 520 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: did it come from? We don't. We don't know, is 521 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: the short answer. We have some suspicions. Uh. Sometimes the 522 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: name Archimedes gets thrown around there. Yeah, so one clue 523 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: is just that Archimedes he was around, you know, a 524 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: century before this, and he was a genius inventor and 525 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: uh or at least we assume, so some of his 526 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: inventions we cannot actually be certain were ever built. But sure, 527 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: come on, he built a death ray, just just death ray, okay, 528 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: probably and a giant mare, a giant arm that would 529 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: upset besieging ships. I want to believe, I understand. Okay, 530 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: So well, is that the only evidence that it might 531 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: have been our comedies? Well, no, Archimedes, as you might remember, 532 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: was from Uh he lived in Syracuse in the which 533 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: is unfortunate. Yeah, well, unfortunate for our comedies. Uh, he 534 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: lived in Syracuse. And an interesting fact about the device 535 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: that we discovered later is that okay, So the device 536 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: has inscriptions all over it, very faint inscriptions, and they're 537 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: hard to read because of all the corrosion from the 538 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: thousands of years. But what they discovered was, oh, okay, 539 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: actually we can make out some of these with some 540 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: of this imaging we're about to talk about in the 541 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: next section. And it's in coin A Greek. So that 542 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: was sort of like coin A Greek was the lingua 543 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: franca of the Hellenistic world, you know, people spoke it 544 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: all over the place. But the calendar that was represented 545 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: on here reflected the kind of calendar that would be 546 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: used in the Ionian area, which would include Syracuse. So 547 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: that that gives at least some against our substantial evidence 548 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: that perhaps our comedies could have been involved in this. 549 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: Then again, our comedies probably died too early to have 550 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: made this particular device due to an over zealous soldier. 551 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: We know he died in I think to twelve BC, 552 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: and the device was made in the probably sometimes between 553 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty, So yeah, that does put some he 554 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: died too early to have personally made it, right, maybe 555 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: he made an earlier one. Yeah, And that's one idea, 556 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: is that it could have come out of a sort 557 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: of a Syracuse based school of our comedies maybe. And again, 558 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: the Island of Rhodes is another example that people have 559 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: have presented saying that they were very much on that island, 560 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: there was a scholarly center that was devoted to astronomy, 561 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: and that they also had craftsmen who worked in clockwork 562 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: type devices. So it's possible that it could have originated 563 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: from that area. We just we don't know. There's some 564 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: clues there, but we don't know for sure. Yeah. Another 565 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: name I just want to mention real quick that gets 566 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: brought up is Hipparcos. Hipparcos Hippocaus of of Nicia, and 567 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: he was a Greek astronomer um and geographer and he 568 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: did the maths. He was a smart guy trigonometry, right, yeah, 569 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: he he was also uh, he wasn't Hippocrates, but anyway, 570 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: he he He also was known for describing the movements 571 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: of the sun in the moon, right and uh. In 572 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: some indications that it maybe could have had something to 573 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: do with him, or that the astronomical theories that are 574 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: reflected in this, including like the movement of the moon, 575 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: reflects his thoughts about the movement. So it may not 576 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: be that he had a direct hand in it, but 577 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: that perhaps a student or someone familiar with his work 578 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: took the theory and put it into a physical object. Okay, 579 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: but I have another theory about who created it. Yeah, 580 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: I have a feeling. I know what you're gonna say. 581 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: But hit me with it, buddy. Okay, Well, it goes 582 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: like this, This mechanism is way too advanced to have 583 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: been built by human beings at the time. Obviously it 584 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: was built by a aliens be time traveler see transdimensional reptilians. Right, 585 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: so um or or sorry d um, like a super 586 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: advanced secret human society that we don't know about, like Atlantis, 587 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: But we do know about them, and we don't think 588 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: they exist. All right. So all right, And Joe, I 589 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: know you're you're presenting this as a tongue in cheek 590 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: because you and I share a common opinion on this 591 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: about how it's absolutely ridiculous to get this nonsense to 592 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: assume this. Yeah, for one thing, it it really it 593 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: really says a lot about the cynicism of people when 594 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: it comes to the creativity of human beings and ingenuity 595 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: and our ability to process complex thought and bring them 596 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: into reality, you know. I mean it's the same argument 597 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: that no, the Pyramids, no human could have built those. 598 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: Actually thousands of humans built those. Tens of thousands of 599 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: humans built those. Yeah, it's um, it's not like somebody 600 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: in ancient Greece building a warp drive, right, it's it's 601 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: somebody who was building something that was totally available to 602 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: someone with the technology of the time. All they had 603 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: to be was really really smart, right. Yeah, we know 604 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: that the astronomical knowledge was there. You know, the scholarship 605 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: was there. We know that the bronze working was there. 606 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: We know that people there were craftsmen hild Generally it 607 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: wasn't as good as this, right, but there were craftsmen 608 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: who could create incredible works out of bronze U. Now, 609 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: a lot of those even't survived because of again the 610 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: fact that people would melt stuff down. But the ones 611 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: that have survived have shown that there's you know, there 612 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: has there was a level of artistry there. Yeah, it's 613 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: I think the bottom line is it's quite exceptional for 614 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: its time, but it's not unthinkable. And so we are 615 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: discounting the h the alien slash time travel or slash reptilian. 616 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,959 Speaker 1: So whatever. I mean, if it was from aliens, you'd 617 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: think that, you know, it would reflect a little more 618 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: complete astronomical knowledge. You might be electronic or something. Also, 619 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be geocentric. Really talked about it, you know, 620 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: it's functionally geocentric, even though the person who made it 621 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: might have been right. But why would an alien bother 622 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: to make something from Earth's perspective? Oh? Yeah, they could 623 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,919 Speaker 1: make an oory from the outside right, including the Earth 624 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: revolving around the Sun. Yeah, why would they do? Yeah, 625 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me, not 626 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: knowing about planets past Saturn, and maybe they just thought 627 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: those were those were not really high up on the 628 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: list of the Yeah, you don't wanna you don't want 629 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: to visit those? Yeah. So I think we can discount 630 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: the whole alien hypothesis. So we've got more we want 631 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: to talk about exactly we want to we want to 632 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: cover how it is that we actually know this stuff. 633 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: But before we get into at let's take another quick 634 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: break and thank our sponsor. So, like I said earlier, 635 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: Trunk Club is our sponsor. I never thought I'd be 636 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: the kind of guy to say, Uh, my stylist picked 637 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: this out for me. But now I'm that guy and 638 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: it actually is pretty cool. I mean, the clothing that 639 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: I have from Trunk Club really is stylish and it 640 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: looks good on me and people notice, and it's one 641 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: of those things that I don't know that I would 642 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: have the patients or the eye for picking it out myself. 643 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: So it's one of those really useful services. And like 644 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: I said, they chip the trunk of clothes to you 645 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: after you've spoken with the stylist, given an idea of 646 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: what you like and the sort of thing you're going for, 647 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: you can actually pick what sort of look you want 648 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: and the stylist will go and find clothing that fits you, 649 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: that fits that look, send it to you. You can 650 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 1: try it on, figure out what you want to keep, 651 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: what you don't want to keep, send everything back that 652 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: you don't want, keep the stuff you do want. It's 653 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: just a really cool service. So go to www dot 654 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: trunk club dot com and check that out. Alright, so 655 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: we have discussed what it was, we discussed how it worked. 656 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: How do we know that it did this thing? I mean, 657 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: you know you're talking about a giant hunk of corroded bronze. 658 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: How could you possibly ever figure out what this thing 659 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: actually did. As we already mentioned, people originally did not know. 660 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: They had no idea what this hunk was capable of. 661 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: For a century, we really didn't know. We had some 662 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: people make some guesses occasionally, but for the most part, 663 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't until we were able to use something far 664 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: more sophisticated than just our own eyeballs to look at it. 665 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: We had to use X rays, and with the X rays, initially, 666 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 1: the X rays show that there were lots of gears 667 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: inside this hunk of corroded bronze, and that they were 668 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 1: connected in some way. But those early X rays were 669 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: not perfect. Mostly they due to the fact that you 670 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,959 Speaker 1: couldn't tell depth with it, so you couldn't see how 671 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: the gears were connected. It was like a massive gears, 672 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: but you weren't sure where where they were in relation 673 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: to one another. Um it enter something called three D 674 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: X ray. Yeah where you sphy? Yeah, you started ye 675 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: scanning it from all different angles using different approaches. Did 676 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: you did you come across the powerful X ray machines 677 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: called blade Runner. I didn't. Yeah, yeah, so blade Runner 678 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: X ray machines. Sorry, they used lots of different X 679 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: ray machines. Throughout the study of this device, as we 680 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,919 Speaker 1: began to learn that this was far more important from 681 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: a historical perspective than anyone had had thought leading up 682 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: to this. I mean, everyone was thinking that these other 683 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: artifacts were really important and this other thing was a curiosity. 684 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: But as we learned more about it, we realized, whoa, 685 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: this thing is amazing. Uh. Well, the the various X 686 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: ray devices we used showed more of the relation of 687 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: all these different gears, so we got to see how 688 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: they were laid out inside this hunk of corroded bronze. 689 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: But the Blade Runner device, all right, So it was 690 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: an X ray machine that was designed to look for 691 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: tiny cracks in turbine blades. That's what the original design 692 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: of these machines was for, and to tell whether or 693 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: not you're a replicant. Also to tell yeah, it would 694 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: ask you, if a turtle is on its back, what 695 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: do you do? Why doesn't the mechanism turn the turtle over? Yeah, 696 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: So anyway, it would look for these tiny It was 697 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: designed so that you could detect the tiniest of cracks 698 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: and turbine blades, so that you could do maintenance before 699 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: a catastrophic failure. They used it to look at this device, 700 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: the anti antikythera device. We keep avoiding saying it so 701 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: that I don't fall over myself. Let's say it three 702 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: times together, Jonathan, that's fantastic, all right, Now you have 703 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: to say it backwards. No, um. So the antikythera device, 704 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: the blade Runner thing, it looks at it, and it 705 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: actually is able to see because it has such precise measurements. 706 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: It's able to to to distinguish what the tiny shallow 707 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: carvings are on those dials. That's how we were able 708 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: to read the words the inscriptions, yeah, because some of 709 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: them were just very faded already, even before you talk 710 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: about the corrosion effort in there or element in there, 711 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: I should say. And the blade Runner X rays were 712 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: able to measure these very tiny changes in the surface 713 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: of these different dials, and that's how we were able 714 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: to see what the writing was and thus able to 715 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: really um translated and figure out what this thing actually did. 716 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: And that's how people once they started reading it, once 717 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: they started being able to read the writing, it became 718 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: clear that this was a far more sophisticated device than 719 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: what what predecessors were thinking. Even the earliest guesses were 720 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: things that but probably can predict solar and lunar movements, 721 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: or maybe it's some form of calendar, but it No 722 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: one was really aware of how sophisticated was until we 723 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: were able to take this closer look. And I think 724 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: it's pretty phenomenal what we've learned about it so far. 725 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 1: Like those shallow engravings have told us pretty much everything 726 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,399 Speaker 1: we need to know about its basic function, and that's 727 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: how we're able to draw some conclusions, including the conclusions 728 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: that lad Michael t right to build his replica of 729 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: the device to the point where he's got a working replica. Uh. It, 730 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: as far as we can tell, it's as accurate to 731 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 1: the original as we can possibly get. Yeah, you should 732 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: look this up on YouTube and see it, because it's 733 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: not just a model, it is a working replica. Yeah, 734 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: he built the machine. He used very similar methods as 735 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: to what the ancient Greeks would have. He used the 736 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: same sort of dimension of gears. Uh. You know, keeping 737 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: in mind that we don't he's working from an incomplete model. 738 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: Even with our very very sophisticated techniques these days, you 739 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: can't see what's not there, right, there's still some missing 740 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: pieces that we don't really have. You know, he was 741 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: able to recreate it based upon what we think the 742 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: device was meant to do, and his works and the 743 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: videos are amazing. When you watch the just the minute 744 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: movements of each of these pieces in relation to one 745 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: another and think of how complex this is, it's mind blowing. 746 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 1: It's well, and it's also it's a it's a gorgeous device, 747 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: you know. It's just it's a beautiful device. You would 748 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: look at and you might think Originally, if you were 749 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: just a glance at it, you might think it was 750 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: either a really weird clock or maybe some sort of 751 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: navigational equipment for like a ship or something, just because 752 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: you've got bronze and wood there. But um, yeah, once 753 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: you've get a deeper understanding of what it is, it's 754 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: pretty pretty nifty. I think the replica was made with 755 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: brass instead of I think you're right. I think it 756 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 1: was brass instead of bronze. So yeah, even more ship 757 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: like then with the brass and would combination. Yeah. Uh. 758 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 1: There's recent scholarship going on with the project called the 759 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: Anti Kit through a Mechanism research project that's a collaborative 760 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: project between lots of different research organizations and individuals. Yeah, 761 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: there's a mathematio shi named Tony Free and uh he's 762 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: been using imaging technology to get to the bottom of 763 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: questions that remain about the mechanism. Yeah. They the group, 764 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: the research group was founded in two thousand five and 765 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: has been extremely active. They have sponsored several museum exhibitions 766 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: throughout the world. I think right now as the recording 767 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: of this podcast, at least some of the device is 768 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: on display in uh in a museum in Athens, but 769 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: I believe that ends in January. Yeah, it's the it's 770 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: an exhibition called the Antikittheras Shipwreck, the ship the Treasures 771 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: and the mechanism, and it's at the National Archaeological Museum 772 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,439 Speaker 1: in Athens, Greece. YEA. And so that of course has 773 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: more than than the device itself. It also has examples 774 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: of the other stuff that was found in that shipwreck, which, 775 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: by the way, people have gone back to that shipwreck 776 00:43:53,800 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: and found more things around it since that initial nine discovery. UM, 777 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: and so there's there. There's also been a lot of 778 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: symposia that they've held. Uh, they've had a lot of 779 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: gatherings where they they combine research and they published that research. 780 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: There's lots of information on their website about the device 781 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: and the circumstances around its discovery and just the process 782 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: of discovery as we used more and more sophisticated techniques 783 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 1: to examine it. And it's really a great resource. I 784 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: highly recommend visiting that website. I'll link to that on 785 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: our Facebook page and Twitter handle so you guys can 786 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: see it, because it's pretty neat stuff. I mean, it's 787 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: um you know. I I really enjoyed reading about the 788 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: process they went through as they would learn more and more, 789 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: and of course that hasn't finished. In fact, there's there's 790 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: one thing, one question besides who built it that we 791 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,480 Speaker 1: don't know the answer to yet, which is why did 792 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,359 Speaker 1: they build it? And why is it? Was it? What? 793 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: What was the in purpose? Was it a scholarly tool? 794 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: Was it so that they could uh create, you know, 795 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: specifically plan out events to coincide with celestial events, so 796 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: that perhaps it was a political tool, you know, maybe 797 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: if if an eclipse is seen as a bad omen, 798 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,800 Speaker 1: you may want to avoid planning some big event around 799 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: an eclipse just so that people don't think that the 800 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,919 Speaker 1: event itself is cursed. I mean, it's it's I'm sure 801 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,760 Speaker 1: in the ancient world you could probably get some amount 802 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: of power just by being able to accurately predict eclipses. Yeah. Yeah, 803 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: and that's another possibility. It could just be religious power 804 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: or political power. We don't know, And it's possible that 805 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: as much as we can learn about this device, maybe 806 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: we never really figure out with any degree of certainty 807 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: who built it or why it was built. In fact, 808 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: I'd be amazed if we ever are able to figure 809 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: out who built it. That would be phenomenal to me. 810 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: Unless someone's like, oh, look here there's an inscription on 811 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: the bottom Johan from Sweden. What that would be a 812 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: big upset, But not that I think that would ever happen. 813 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was. I want to float another possibility steampunks, right, 814 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 1: steampunk cost players. But I'm thinking that it was a 815 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: steampunk convention, a certain doctor showed up at it, accidentally 816 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: ended up grabbing this device, and on a further adventure, 817 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,760 Speaker 1: maybe three episodes down the line, ended up accidentally dunking 818 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: it into the ocean off the coast degrease. That's exactly 819 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: what happened. Um explains everything. Uh, did you see the 820 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: the lego? Really cool? Now, this wasn't. We probably might 821 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: not want to call it a replica because it's not 822 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: trying to copy the form of the original, just the function, right, 823 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: And even the function it was I think a limited 824 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 1: part of it because it was really showing things like 825 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: eclipses in the UH in the lego version, I don't 826 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: think it necessarily showed all the movements that the Antikithera 827 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: device showed, because I was when I watched the video, 828 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 1: it was like, this is really clever because it would 829 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,479 Speaker 1: show you the the date and UH when the next 830 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 1: eclipse would occur, whether it was solar or Luna or both. 831 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: But it didn't um both as in like a region 832 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: of time when both would occur, not both occurring at 833 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: the same time, UM necessarily, But the the it didn't 834 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: tell you things. It didn't tell you things like the 835 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: movement of the planets as far as I could tell. 836 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: So it was it had a limited set of functions 837 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: that the Antikillera device actually did. But it was still 838 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: really cool to watch. It was really cool. Let me 839 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: tell you, I'm going to invent a device and it's 840 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,920 Speaker 1: gonna tell you it will predict when the Sun passes 841 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: in front of the Moon that will be a bad day. 842 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure I stay indoors that day. What 843 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: is that called that's called I think that's I think 844 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: that's called Well, it doesn't really matter because we're not 845 00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: It's essentially called boy. It sure as vaporized outside today, 846 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: isn't it. Oh? Yeah, no, that would not not go 847 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: over well. Now. When we recorded this episode, the belief 848 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: was that the device dates from around one fifty one 849 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,280 Speaker 1: c E. The researchers now believe that it's actually even older, 850 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: dating from two oh five b c E. Now, the 851 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: researchers came to this conclusion once they determined that the 852 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,800 Speaker 1: Antikithera mechanism was time to begin with events starting in 853 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: two oh five b c E, and not just the year. 854 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,879 Speaker 1: They figured out that the whole device worked best if 855 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: we use May twelve, two oh five b c E 856 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,799 Speaker 1: as the starting date. That's the first full moon of May, 857 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: by the way. Now, the researchers Christianne C. Carmen and 858 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: James Evans used a system that looked at different possible 859 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: starting dates, and they eliminated the ones that didn't seem 860 00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: to fit the mechanisms operation. The date of May twelve, 861 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: two oh five b c E was the one that 862 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: was left up. So why is this new information so cool? Well, 863 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 1: for one thing, it tells us that the person who 864 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,880 Speaker 1: designed the mechanism wasn't relying on Greek trigonometry, which didn't 865 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,000 Speaker 1: exist in two O five b C. Instead, this brilliant 866 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: inventor was using Babylonian arithmetic to determine the dates of 867 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: various celestial events. Now it also puts the device's creation 868 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: closer to the time of our comedes, who remember, died 869 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: into twelve BC E. Now I felt all this information 870 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: was really interesting and merited a revisit to our endokithera device. 871 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: I hope you did too. Remember if you have suggestions 872 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: for future episodes of tech Stuff, brite me at tech 873 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: stuff at how stuff works dot com, or get in 874 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,760 Speaker 1: touch on social with Twitter, Facebook or Tumbler or handle 875 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: at all three is tech Stuff hs W and we'll 876 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:50,360 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon for more on this 877 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 1: and basons of other topics. Because it have staff works 878 00:49:53,080 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: dot Com