1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: and this is stuff you should know. The is it 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: getting hot in here? Is it just me? 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 3: Edition? Uh? Yeah, that's right. Well, you know what we 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 3: can do. We can just migrate to another part of 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: the iHeart offices here. 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 3: Nice, a nice school studio. 11 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, they really do keep them cool, frankly cold. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's the last fun we're going to have 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: on this episode because this is not so fun. 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: That is not true. There's plenty of places for jokes. Okay, 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: all right, good do you remember we did one on 16 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 2: comas and we had jokes, So come on, right, we 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: can do this. 18 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point. 19 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: So we're talking climate migration and it's a really interesting topic. 20 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: This was your idea, actually, and I tip my hat 21 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: to you than you and uh, I'm just joking. I'm 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: not I'm not wearing a hat. 23 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 3: See another joke. 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: So the thing that surprised me, So we're climate migration, 25 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: we should just tell people off the bat is where 26 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: people have to move somewhere else because extreme weather, droughts, 27 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: basically anything extreme temperatures, anything that has to do with 28 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: climate change based ruining where they live. That's climate migration 29 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: human wise. 30 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 3: Yes, like there's an animal climate migration we're not even 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: going to talk about. 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: No, we did a whole episode on plant migration that 33 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: was due to climate too, So this is yes, that 34 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: was a good catch. This is human specific. And one 35 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: of the things that struck me about this is there's 36 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: a there's not a lot of like solid agreement on 37 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: exactly how bad things are going to be and exactly 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: how far people are going to have to move, and 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: even a moong the people who do agree, the experts 40 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: who do generally agree on some stuff, there's still like, 41 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: I don't know that this is going to be as 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: bad as it's being portrayed, like say in the media. 43 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And you know, we'll get to some 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 3: studies and stats and things. But the stats you got 45 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: to keep in mindor kind of a guess because as 46 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: Libya points out, or maybe we'll just talk about that 47 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 3: when we get to the stats part. 48 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: Okay, but I just wanted to put I wanted to 49 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: put a lid on the hysteria because, like you said, 50 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: we just don't know yet, and it might not be 51 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: as bad as we think. There might be some pluses. 52 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 2: There are definitely going to be some minuses, but it's 53 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: something that we're talking about now, and it's decades enough 54 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: into the future that we have time to prepare for it. 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: It's kind of like we went from Okay, let's stop 56 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: emitting greenhouse gases to Okay, it's too late for that. 57 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: Now we have to figure out how to deal with 58 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: the repercussions of that. That's where we're at. But we 59 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: have a little bit of time, and if we start 60 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: thinking about and talking about how to do this smartly 61 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: and responsibly without again becoming hysterical and overplanning and overdoing it, 62 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 2: we could do this right and make it as comfortable 63 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: as possible. 64 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, we being specifically the United States because there are 65 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 3: other parts of the world that are already sort of 66 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 3: proactive rather than kind of, like you said, being reactive 67 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 3: and waiting when potential refugees are just sort of at 68 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 3: the border saying like we have no place to go 69 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,839 Speaker 3: because our have our place almost said habitat. I guess 70 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: humans have a habitat, right. 71 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, is that true? Yeah, every animal has a habitat. 72 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 3: Okay, I didn't know if I was being callous by 73 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: considering us all just animals. 74 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: Were you being a speciest? 75 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: Maybe so? But if speaking of the US, you know, 76 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: you do hear a lot of talk about that kind 77 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: of thing, like, oh, people are going to be coming 78 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: into our country. You know, depending on who you talk 79 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: to in this country, some people might welcome them, some 80 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: people might not. But as Livia is very as student 81 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: to point out, generally what we're talking about nowadays, the 82 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 3: more common thing that you're seeing is people people don't 83 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: want to leave their home, you know, so they'll move 84 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: as kind of close as they can to where they're from, 85 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 3: rather than say, hey, let's just pick up and go 86 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: to a completely different country where I know nothing about 87 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 3: it and I don't speak the language. Like what's generally 88 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: happening is if there's a climate issue, like let's say, 89 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 3: which could look like a lot of things, so we're 90 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: going to talk about a lot of them. It could 91 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: mean I just can't farm here anymore because it's so 92 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: drought prone, or there was a my coastline is disappearing, 93 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: or there was a natural disaster here so I have 94 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 3: to leave. People want to move close to where they are, 95 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 3: so they're generally saying, like, all right, I can't be 96 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: out here in the farm area anymore, so let's move 97 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 3: toward the urban centers. And that's why a lot of 98 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: these urban centers in the global South are popping at 99 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: the seams. 100 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's gonna definitely get more poppy for sure 101 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: as we go. Yeah, but as it stands right now, 102 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: especially say like you can take California for an example, 103 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: they deal with wildfires like that's just a fact of life, 104 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: and it's getting to be a much more frequent fact 105 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: of life. So if you leave your house because there's 106 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: a wildfire in your backyard, you are technically a climate 107 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: migrant right then. But if you go back and rebuild 108 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: or your house didn't end up burning down, you're basically 109 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: following the current pattern of climate migration. You're leaving long 110 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: enough for you to take yourself out of harm's way 111 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: during the disaster the extreme weather event, and then going back. 112 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 2: But if you do that enough times, some people are 113 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 2: going to just get tired of that and they're eventually 114 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: not going to go back. And that's kind of like 115 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: how climate migration, at least say in the United States 116 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: right now, is starting to look or starting to starting 117 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: to establish itself, right. 118 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 3: But the idea is that I guess, if you're moving 119 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 3: away from where wildfires are more rampant, you're going to 120 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: move to a place probably as close as you can, 121 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 3: unless you know, in America, if you have like family 122 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: on the other side of the country or something where 123 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 3: those wildfires generally don't happy, maybe you'll do that. But 124 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: if we're talking about countries, you're probably moving within your country. 125 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: And within your country there is not like, oh, well, 126 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: you know, I'm at a place where the climate problem 127 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 3: isn't a problem, so it's not solving a bigger problem, 128 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. 129 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and even more so, like if you're a migrant, 130 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: even within your own country, like you said, say like 131 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: to an urban center or something like that, a lot 132 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: of times when you show up, you might show up 133 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: with all of your neighbors, your entire community, maybe your 134 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: entire region. If the say, like the drought is bad 135 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: enough and the city's not like, hey, we just happen 136 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: to have all this extra free housing for you guys, 137 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: so come on in. Very frequently you'll end up in 138 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,119 Speaker 2: what amounts to a refugee camp. It's a climate refugee cam, 139 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: but it's essentially the same thing as any other refugee camp. 140 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: There's usually not running water, there's not good infrastructure. And 141 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: this is a point that I hadn't thought of, but 142 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: Lvia pointed out, you're maybe even more vulnerable to natural 143 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: disasters now because you live in a tent. No, if 144 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: a sandstorm comes along, you're in trouble because you just 145 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: are in a tent rather than say the house that 146 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,119 Speaker 2: you had to leave because your farm was no longer 147 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: producing crops. 148 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and also you're you're living like perhaps in like 149 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: a shanty town on the outskirts of town, and you're 150 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: going to see increased poverty. That's going to be an 151 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 3: unstable situation, and then violence comes along oftentimes in these places. 152 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 3: She found one study from twenty twenty two of Central 153 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: African migrants, five percent reported that they moved specifically for 154 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: environmental reasons, but fifty percent said yeah, but that played 155 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: a part in the decision to leave, Like whether or 156 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: not they're saying, like, no, the drought's too bad here, 157 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: I'm leaving, or some places are just the extreme heat 158 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: is becoming so bad as people just can't live there anymore. 159 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: They're not saying I'm moving just because of that, but 160 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: half of them were saying, like, yeah, that was a 161 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: factor that led to this whole mess. 162 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. And there's probably the most famous, most well studied, 163 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: recent example of climate migration leading to violent conflict was 164 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: the Syrian Civil War. Yeah, between two thousand and six 165 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: and twenty ten, there was a really really bad drought 166 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: in Syria and the surrounding region and a lot of 167 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: people had to move to the city or cities, and 168 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: they were like a lot of people were displaced and 169 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 2: they joined people who had already arrived as refugees before 170 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: from Iraq and from Palestine, and so all these people 171 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: are there, the government is basically ignoring them, tending like 172 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: they're not there. Their farms are being lost, they're getting 173 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: zero help from the government, which has become a neoliberal 174 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: under Bashar al Assad, who took over from his father, 175 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: and they start the UNRESK. It's bad enough that a 176 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: civil war starts, like there's a rebel insurgency to topple Asad. 177 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: And it actually ended up working. It didn't at first 178 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: because a sod famously used chemical weapons on his own 179 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: people and he got everything under control, but then they 180 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: made a second push this past I think December, and 181 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: ran them out of the country and actually took over. 182 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 2: And you could trace that ultimately back to that drought 183 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: that was created largely by climate change. And that's that's nuts. 184 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: Like if you think about it, if that drought had 185 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 2: never happened, there wouldn't have been a Syrian civil war. 186 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: And that's probably the most extreme version example of climate 187 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: a climate crisis leading to violence, armed conflict. But it's 188 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: not like it doesn't exist, it's not like it doesn't 189 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: happen like that happened. 190 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, over an eight year period from two 191 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 3: thousand and two to twenty ten, the urban population in 192 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: Syria went from just under nine million people to almost 193 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: fourteen millions. That is a lot of people to add. 194 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: But and this isn't like in full agreement, so this 195 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: is at a counterpoint. But Syria mishandled that. And there 196 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 3: are other countries in the region that suffered through the 197 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: same drought, specifically Jordan and Lebanon, that had a government 198 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: that was more proactive and responsive, and they had policies 199 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: that were put in place that they didn't have the 200 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: same kind of you know, destructive outcomes that Syria had. 201 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: So it's you know, it all depends on how you're 202 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 3: handling this situation. We're going to talk a lot about countries, 203 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 3: you know, people leaving countries, and then especially the receiving countries, 204 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 3: because that's really where the rubber meets the road. 205 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: For sure. If the rubber hasn't melted by then that's right. 206 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: And if the road is still intact and not cracked 207 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: to pieces, it hasn't buckled. 208 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, there are actually some estimates all over the place 209 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: about how many climate migrants they're going to be, And 210 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: there was something called the ground Swell Report that the 211 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: World Bank put out in twenty twenty one, and they 212 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: are saying by twenty fifty, two hundred and sixteen million 213 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: people will have moved either to another country or within 214 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: their own country because climate conditions have made where they 215 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: used to live untenable. So we're talking twenty five years, 216 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: not even thirty years anymore, Chuck, We're in twenty twenty five. 217 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: If my math holds up, that's just twenty five years 218 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: from now. That is a tremendous amount of migration. Some 219 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: people say, no, that's probably going to be more like 220 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: fifty million. But it seems like that World Bank analysis 221 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: is the most commonly cited, although you could also suggest 222 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: it's the most commonly sighted because it's such an eye 223 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: popping number. 224 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. True, Well, this is probably a good place since 225 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 3: I promised to talk about something stat related. One of 226 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 3: the reasons it's hard or one of the reasons you 227 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: get something like anywhere from fifty to two hundred and 228 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: fifty million people this pretty big swing is because we 229 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: don't know how effective our efforts are going to be 230 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: to curb emissions and to get things, you know, sort 231 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: of on the right track again, how successful we're going 232 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 3: to be at you know, some wealthier countries doing things 233 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: like sea walls and redistributing water resources and things like that, 234 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 3: because as you'll see a lot of and we've talked 235 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 3: about before that you know, the most precious resource in 236 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: the future is love. Is it is love? Oh man, 237 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 3: I needed that water unfortunately, so you know, there have 238 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 3: been people that talk about, you know, the wars of 239 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: the future will be fought over water. And as we'll 240 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: see a lot of climate migration happens either because of 241 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 3: a lack of water or a lack of water that's 242 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 3: you know, useful for humans, or to too much water, 243 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 3: and other parts like rising sea waters and such. 244 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So the World Bank broke it down 245 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 2: that Sub Saharan Africa is going to see by far 246 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: the most eighty six million, followed by East Asia the 247 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: Pacific at forty nine million, South South Asia forty million, 248 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: North Africa nineteen million, although some people are like, it's 249 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: going to be even more than that for North America 250 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: and parts of the Middle East because it's going to 251 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: get so hot that it will be uninhabitable by humans. 252 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you you met in North Africa, not 253 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: North America. 254 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 2: That's right, Yes, North Africa in the Middle East, not 255 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: North America in the Middle East. 256 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: I think people who listen to the show know us 257 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 3: enough now to where we're like old pals and they're like, oh, Josh, Chuck, 258 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 3: you don't even need to point that out, we know 259 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 3: what he meant. 260 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: You know what, though, I think I think we should 261 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: introduce a new device up here in the year seventeen. 262 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: Uh huh, whenever I misspeak, just cut me off in 263 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: the middle by doing your egg COLORSPT. Can we try that? 264 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: You ready. Yeah, so it's going to get so hot 265 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: in the Middle East and North America that what did 266 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: I say wrong, Chuck? 267 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: Nothing, I just like doing that. 268 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: So I think we've come up with something new that 269 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: we really need to do. 270 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: All right, Well, how about this, Why don't we take 271 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: a break. You said Latin America was seventeen. 272 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: Million, right, No, I never got there. 273 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 3: Latin America seventeen million. 274 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: Don't forget Eastern Europe and Central Asia. 275 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: Five million, so you know, not nearly as many as 276 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: the others. But there are again water scarcity, yeah, in 277 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 3: places like Mongolian Kazakhstan. So now can we take a break. 278 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, we can take a break. I think you should 279 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: take us out on your eggs plait sound again? 280 00:14:47,640 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back sat All right. 281 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: So I kind of teased out the importance of or 282 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, importanse I often tease here in the South everybody, 283 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 3: if you haven't noticed by now and you're seventeen, receiving 284 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: communities are very important. How safe these people are going 285 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 3: to be when they move to this place? Is there? 286 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: And again, A they're still going to be vulnerable to 287 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: the impacts of climate where they go most likely or 288 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: are almost you know, with one hundred percent certainty, but 289 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: just how safe they're going to be period, because we 290 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: talked about sometimes when they set up on the outskirts 291 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 3: of towns and there's violence, and they're more susceptible by 292 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 3: being in a shanty or a tent or something to 293 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 3: just even a hard rain. So it's almost like this, 294 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: it's a vicious cycle that's happening where people are being 295 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: displaced to places that also aren't safe. 296 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say that most of this migration, 297 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: and most of the migrants are going to be coming 298 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: from or going moving within what's called the global South. 299 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: And you don't use the equator as the dividing line 300 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: for the global South. For example, Australia and New Zealand 301 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: squarely in the southern hemisphere, but they're not considered global South. 302 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: It's a distinction between the developed and the developing world. 303 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: So you have Latin America, Africa, India's usually included, China 304 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: is included, and Southeast Asia and these countries ironically are 305 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: if you accept China and India, most of these countries 306 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 2: have put out the least amount of emissions that triggered 307 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: climate change, and yet they're the most vulnerable to climate 308 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: change in large part because they're develop And if you're 309 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: a developing country, you're probably still really reliant on agriculture. 310 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 2: You're reliant on things like timber and other natural resources, 311 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 2: and those are the things that are getting impacted first 312 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: right off the bat. And so if your economy is 313 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 2: based on agriculture and there's a drought that covers your 314 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: entire nation, your economy's in big trouble and your people 315 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: are probably going to have to move. 316 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. Here's the thing though, and this isn't like a 317 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 3: bright side sort of thing. It puts a strain on 318 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: resources when a lot of new people come to a place, 319 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: but they can also be an asset because most of 320 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: those migrants are going to end up performing a lot 321 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 3: of very important jobs in that area. A lot of 322 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 3: them work in agriculture, some work in construction, some work 323 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 3: in childcare. But those same people are also not necessarily 324 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: It depends on the receiving community, even down to that 325 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 3: community level, and how they're going to take care of 326 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 3: those people. And what I mean by take care in 327 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: this case is just see that they get a fair 328 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 3: shot at like earning a wage by performing a job. 329 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 3: If you face up a lot of potential workplace abuse 330 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 3: if you're one of those migrants. In the United Arab Emirates, 331 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 3: as a striking example, eighty eight percent of the population 332 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: there is made up of migrants, mainly from Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, 333 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 3: and it's very hot there as well, and so they're 334 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 3: not taking care of their migrant population of workers, and 335 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 3: they can just sometimes some companies might be like, you 336 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 3: know what, we're not going to pay you for that. 337 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: What are you going to do about it? 338 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of examples of modern slavery force 339 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 2: the labor in the UAE and other countries, very wealthy 340 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: Gulf states, and that is a good example of climate migrants, 341 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: but really any kind of migrant being taken advantage of, 342 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: and it's something that definitely has to be paid attention to. 343 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: On the other hand, there are studies that say, okay, 344 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: this actually might be good, like, yes, we need to 345 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: make sure that the receiving countries are not exploiting the 346 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: climate migrants or any migrants, but the pressure that could 347 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: be relieved from their home country if they're moving to 348 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 2: more developed or wealthier countries that are more set up 349 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: with infrastructure and social structure to absorb them. That actually 350 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 2: could be a plus, because all of a sudden, the 351 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 2: population is not swollen in an urban center where it's 352 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: really hot, and you're around people from an ethnic group 353 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: that your ethnic group has hated for a thousand years. 354 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 2: Like moving some of these people out to other countries 355 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: could actually be a relief valve that could keep social 356 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: upheaval from happening. 357 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, potentially so. Under the United Nations, they have a 358 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 3: Refugee Convention from nineteen fifty one that specifically defines the 359 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 3: good thing it does. It defines that refugees are entitled 360 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 3: to legal rights, entitled to travel, some kinds of support, housing, 361 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 3: that kind of thing. But the I guess kind of 362 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 3: the downside of what it did is it very narrowly 363 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 3: defined what a refugee was in the wake of World 364 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 3: War Two, which was you have to be fleeing persecution 365 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: on the basis of race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or 366 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 3: group membership, and only if you're fleeing from one border 367 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 3: to the next. We already mentioned that a lot of 368 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 3: this is happening within their home country, so they don't 369 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 3: have any of those un guaranteed rights, but a lot 370 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 3: of people legal scholars are saying, hey, we need to 371 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: expand that definition to include maybe not necessarily only cross 372 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 3: border and people who were climate refugees. 373 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, why not add the sun. You can be 374 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 2: fleeing the sun and we'll consider you a refugee from 375 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: now on. 376 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 3: That's me every summer in Atlanta. 377 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: Right, you just go down in your basement right in 378 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 2: turns tasty. Yeah, so yes, there there are like I 379 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: guess there's structure. There's like global structure that can be 380 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: aplied to climate migrants and climate refugees. It's just that's 381 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: not necessarily happening right now. But it wouldn't take much, 382 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: I think, is what we're saying, right to just kind 383 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: of expand the existing definitions. 384 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and that's just you know, that's the UN definition. 385 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 3: There are other places in the world. The Organization of 386 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: African Unity Convention in the Latin America, Cartagena. Is that Cartagena? 387 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that from Romancing the Stone. 388 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 3: We just watched that with Ruby last weekend. 389 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: It's such a good movie. 390 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 3: It holds up and it is if you have a 391 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 3: kid that's around that age that's into sort of like 392 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 3: action adventure kind of movies which she is. It's a 393 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 3: it's a great one. Man. She had a really good 394 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: time and it's not like super inappropriate for an eighties movie. 395 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 2: That's really surprising. Did you follow up with Jewel of 396 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: the Nile? 397 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: Not yet, but yeah, that'll be coming. It's just Danny DeVito. Man, 398 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: what a national treasure that guy is. 399 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, he really is a jewel. 400 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 3: So great, ira Ah, I forgot how much I love 401 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: remains in this done all right? So back to Cartagenia Declaration. 402 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: They have an expanded definition of refugee that is more 403 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 3: broad than the UN where they say events that are 404 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 3: seriously disturbing public order, which obviously could include climate events. 405 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, the sun can do that. 406 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 407 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: So one of the things that a lot of these 408 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: nations that are going to be most affected are saying 409 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 2: is like, hey, we appreciate you guys thinking about this, 410 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 2: but we don't really want to move. So is there 411 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: like a version of this where we can stay and 412 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: you wealthy countries who kind of got us into this 413 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 2: mess in the first place, can maybe help fund some 414 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: of the mitigation efforts that we're trying to put in place. 415 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 2: And so far the wealthy countries are like well, I 416 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: can't hear you the connections breaking up, but that may 417 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: change as we get a little further down the road. 418 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 2: Who knows. But there are some govern ver Mints that 419 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: are like kind of starting to plant because they're like, 420 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 2: this is not this is not twenty fifty for us. 421 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 2: This is like twenty thirty that we're having to worry about. 422 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: And in some places it's already started happening. Like Kirabody 423 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: is a Pacific island nations. Yeah, it's thirty two nations, 424 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 2: about one hundred and thirty thousand people, and at best 425 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: it's just about at sea level. Yeah, and when sea 426 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: level is rising, Kirabody is going under the sea. And 427 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: apparently sea level is rising about four times faster than 428 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: other parts of the world. 429 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, the riding's on the wall. They are very sadly, 430 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 3: for sure. 431 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: So their their government was like, Okay, we have to 432 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 2: figure out how to move people, and we have to 433 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: figure out how to do it right, And they started 434 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: looking at Fiji. 435 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and Fiji kind of stepped up and were like, hey, 436 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 3: we have some underdeveloped plan I guess it was undeveloped 437 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 3: planned that we can sell you. This is in twenty fourteen, 438 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 3: and the president at the time of Kirabody was a 439 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: no Tong, Yeah that's right, Yeah, all right, and Tong's 440 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: you know, was all over this, like let's buy this land, 441 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: let's move people like not just you know a few families, 442 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 3: like let's start moving on mass over there, because you know, 443 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: the writing is on the wall here and these islands 444 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: just aren't going to be around. At some point he 445 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: was calling it migration with dignity. And then in twenty sixteen, 446 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 3: Tong lost the president to Tanetti Mamau, and this it 447 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 3: was just you know, sometimes when a new administration comes in, Josh, 448 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 3: things can shift in radical directions. I don't know if 449 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: you knew that or not. 450 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: I could see Mamau basically running on this platform because 451 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: I'm guessing one hundred and thirty thousand people in a 452 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 2: thirty two island spread is cure body, like I'm guessing 453 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: moving the entire country to Fiji. It's probably top of 454 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: the mind of the voters there. So I'm guessing that 455 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 2: Mao Mao or ma Mao ran on a platform against 456 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: moving and was like, no, we're going to figure out 457 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: how to stay here. We're going to build sea walls. 458 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: We're going to cross our fingers, We're going to use 459 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: faerry dust. Who knows what they were running on, but 460 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: they won because people don't want to move if they 461 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 2: don't have to, If there's a chance of them staying 462 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: where they lived, where their families have lived, they want 463 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 2: to stay. Typically, that's what people are who study climate 464 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 2: migrants are finding. 465 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, in that case, it was you know, billions 466 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 3: of dollars to like physically re engineer these islands and 467 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 3: build those walls, and they didn't have that kind of dough. 468 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 3: So China stepped up and said, hey, you got that 469 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 3: marine protected zone where you don't allow fishing, give us 470 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 3: those fishing rights. So this is just sort of another 471 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 3: good example of the domino effect that can happen. All 472 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 3: of a sudden, you're wrecking that part of the sea 473 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 3: because it was a protected zone. This no longer protected 474 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 3: because China said, hey, we'll help you have re engineer 475 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 3: those islands if you let us fish there. But they 476 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 3: only ended up giving a fraction of the cost of 477 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: what's needed. I think New Zealand is also stepping up 478 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: right well. 479 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 2: They tried to. They created a new visa specifically for 480 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 2: residents of places like Kirabodi who are like, we need 481 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: to get out now. And New Zealand very kindly was like, 482 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 2: you guys can come live here. We're going to make 483 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: it as easy as possible on you. And the people 484 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: of Kirabody just gave them crickets back. Yeah, in New 485 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 2: Zealand within six months, like cancel the program because they 486 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 2: had basically no takers. They did not need this special 487 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: visa because people again don't want to move if there's 488 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 2: any chance of them not having to move. I get it, 489 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: you know, I totally get it as well for sure. 490 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: And I mean if you if you put yourself in 491 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: that mindset, it suddenly is like, Okay, I kind of 492 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: get why people keep moving back after their house burns 493 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 2: down from wildfire or it gets blown away by a 494 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: hurricane or it gets like picked up by a tornado. 495 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 2: That's where you live, and it just hasn't I feel 496 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 2: like it just hasn't got quite frequent enough for people, 497 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: at least, let's say in the United States. It's my 498 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 2: frame of reference to just be like, Okay, this is 499 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: not going to change. This it's going to keep getting worse. 500 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: We need to we need to leave. 501 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think people are two minds here, 502 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 3: and it seems like there are way more people that 503 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 3: are are so attached to their home they don't want 504 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 3: to leave it, but they're you know, I've heard just 505 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 3: anecdotally stories of people They're like, I'm getting the heck 506 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 3: out of California, or I'm getting the heck out of 507 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 3: a hurricane you know, prone area like the you know, 508 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 3: if you live around the Gulf of Mexico or something 509 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 3: like that, in those panhandily areas, or in like Houston 510 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: or Miami. You know, we're getting out of dodge. So 511 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 3: some people are doing that, but it definitely doesn't seem like, 512 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 3: you know, people are taking it seriously enough yet. 513 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: What's nuts, though, is if you go to Miami today, 514 00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 2: their skyline is covered with construction cranes. They cannot build 515 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,640 Speaker 2: skyscrapers for housing fast enough because so many people are 516 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: still moving to Miami. And I say we take a 517 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 2: break and come back and talk about what's going to 518 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 2: happen to cities in the US as far as climate 519 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 2: migration is concerned. Okay, Chuck, So I name checked Miami 520 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: before the break, and that is a really good example 521 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: of a city that is kind of up in the 522 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: air for how much climate migration is going to affect it. 523 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: Is it going to get so bad there that they're 524 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: just gonna have to abandon Miami and it'll look like 525 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 2: a reverse the day after tomorrow, but with heat and 526 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: seawater rather than everything being frozen, which, by. 527 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 3: The way, I saw that the other day for the 528 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: first time. 529 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: No, it's actually one of my favorite movies, it turns out, 530 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: because every single time it's on, I will just sit 531 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 2: there and watch it. 532 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: Oh did I see that? I think I might have 533 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 3: seen that all the way through back when it came out, 534 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: but that was it. 535 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. I hesitate to use the word good because it's great, 536 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: but it's yeah, I just like it. It's one of those. Really. 537 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 2: It's like Zodiac. I can watch Zodiac anytime it comes on, 538 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: Like I might not search it out, but I'll just 539 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: sit there and watch it if it's you know, presented 540 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: to me somehow. 541 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 3: No, I'm the same way. There's something about Zodiac that 542 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 3: is just endlessly watchable to me. 543 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. But the day after tomorrow's like that 544 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 2: for me. 545 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: Okay, well you know what, I should check it out again. Oh, 546 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 3: and I think I have a good reason to coming 547 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 3: up canted. 548 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually what triggered that idea. Yeah, okay, you 549 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 2: and me just talking about something that only you and 550 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: I know about. 551 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 3: I know, you know. I have a couple of stats 552 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 3: as far as the United States goes. This is at 553 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: this point already here in twenty twenty five, two or 554 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 3: three million Americans leave their homes every year, every single year, 555 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 3: two to three million due to natural disasters that happened floods, earthquakes, fires, hurricanes, 556 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 3: all the stuff that happens here. I don't you know 557 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 3: the volcanoes. 558 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: That's not the one, that's not the ones. Well there's 559 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: Mount Saint Helens that was a big deal. 560 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, true, But generally in the lower forty 561 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: eight we don't have volcanoes. 562 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: Right, So that two to three million number, those are 563 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: people who move permanently, right. That's not just people who 564 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 2: like leave and then come back. 565 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 3: No, no, no, those are most of those people do return. 566 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: But over the past couple of decades, about three million 567 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 3: people have moved just to avoid flooding, which is a 568 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: long period of time. But those are people that are 569 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 3: just like, yeah, it just this place floods. I mean, 570 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 3: I remember after Katrina. I feel like Atlanta got a 571 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 3: pretty decent amount of displaced New Orleans residents that stayed here. 572 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 3: I have evidence by going to Falcons. 573 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: Games, right, So did Houston too. 574 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 575 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a great example of that kind of 576 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: thing happening. And like, I'm sure a lot of them 577 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 2: went back when it was clear that New Orleans was 578 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 2: going to be rebuilt and revitalized and get back to normal, 579 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: but a lot of them stayed. I'm sure a lot 580 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 2: of them are, Like, things don't flood quite as much 581 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: here in Atlanta, so I'm gonna just kind of stay here. 582 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, in Atlanta. I mean, New Orleans is certainly such 583 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 3: a singular unique city in America culturally, like maybe more 584 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 3: so than almost any city I've been to. So Atlanta 585 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: is not that, but it's another big city in the 586 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: South that I think is at least relatable to somebody 587 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 3: from New Orleans in some ways. 588 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 2: For sure. Yeah, there's like ninety eight percent less brass 589 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 2: bands marching around, but you know, there's still a certain 590 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: amount of like Southern affinity between the two cities. 591 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, for like big cities. 592 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: So sea level rise is going to affect the US, 593 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 2: but I didn't know this. There's like, you know, they 594 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: talk about sea level rise, you know, being zero point 595 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: one millimeter a year or something like that, or they're 596 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: predicting that's the global average. Sea level rises in different 597 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 2: places at different rates, and it can be so local 598 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: that apparently the eastern seaboard of the United States is 599 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: that sea level is rising faster than the West coast. 600 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 2: It can be that local. And the reason why is 601 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: there's something called post glacial rebound where the top part 602 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 2: of the Eastern Seaboard, like New York, all that area 603 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: was pressed down by a glacier, and after the glacier 604 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: retreated ten thousand or so years ago, that part of 605 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: the land is still moving up. It's coming back, it's rebounding, 606 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: but at the same time that's kind of pushing down 607 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 2: like a seesaw the southern part of the Eastern seaboard. 608 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: So that's actually the sea levels are rising faster there 609 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: than even in the northern part of the Eastern Seaboard. 610 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: It's crazy, yeah, and you know that's just sea level rise. 611 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 3: And this isn't a AM reticent to do episodes sometimes 612 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 3: where we're just like, you know, slinging fear and statistics, right, 613 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 3: but it's sort of the reality right now. Wild fire 614 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 3: threat has just gotten worse, especially if you're talking about 615 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 3: Nevada and Oregon, places that maybe didn't see the most 616 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: wildfire in the past. And it's not just Miami as 617 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 3: far as sea level rise, like New York and Boston. 618 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 3: I mean, New York has seen flooding in you know, 619 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 3: the not too distant past, where we never used to 620 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: see things like that happening there. 621 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 2: I saw that some of the communities, the houses along 622 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: Jamaica Bay, which I guess is Queens, right, Yeah, they 623 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: flood every time there's a high tide, there's a full moon, 624 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 2: like real blood. Their entire basement just totally flooded, and 625 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: it's starting to happen every single time there's a full 626 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: moon at high tide. So yeah, I was reading like 627 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 2: they're on the forefront of talking about climate migration in 628 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 2: the US. 629 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 3: Well. The other thing too, that we've mentioned earlier, we 630 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 3: haven't talked so much since then, is this not necessarily 631 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 3: a climate event or some natural disaster either to cause 632 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 3: climate migration. It's like farmers, if they can't farm there 633 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 3: anymore and their livelihood is gone, they might move and 634 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 3: across the south and Southwest, especially in Texas, the projections 635 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 3: for corn and soy are just falling, falling, falling, So 636 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: you're going to be able to grow that easier in 637 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 3: other parts of the country. So that's a bit of 638 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 3: a silver lining is things you know, change and shift, 639 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 3: but those are going to eventually be climate migrants, those 640 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 3: farmers there. 641 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it seems like the projection that twenty 642 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 2: fifty twenty seventy, the current climate that spreads across the 643 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 2: United States is going to shift northward by a few states, 644 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: and those states that are currently hot right now but 645 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: still you know, kind of nice, like Florida coastal Georgia, 646 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: they're going to potentially become uninhabitable just because it's going 647 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: to be so hot. So it turns out I was 648 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: right about the Middle East and North America becoming so 649 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 2: hot that it can be uninhabitable. And apparently that's due 650 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: to what's called the wet bulb temperature, which is a 651 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 2: mind boggling formula that barely anyone on the Internet can explain. 652 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 2: And I can't throw sling arrows because I can't really 653 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 2: explain it either. But essentially it's the temperature where your 654 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 2: body will no longer be able to cool itself, and 655 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 2: so being outside in the sun just standing there is 656 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: actually life threatening. They're saying that it's going to become 657 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 2: the norm for say, like Florida and so in Georgia 658 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: to hit those temperatures, and so the people are just 659 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 2: gonna have to move because you wouldn't be able to 660 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 2: leave your house and even go outside. 661 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 3: Do you remember when we were tasked with doing a 662 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 3: panel at a podcast movement that's the name of the 663 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 3: industry conference, I guess, yeah con Yeah, but it's like 664 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 3: an industry conference. And we were supposed to speak in 665 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 3: like ten minutes on stage and someone and a fire 666 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: alarm or something went out. Oh yeah, and they made 667 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 3: us go outside. And it was two minutes in the 668 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 3: Orlando summer heat after it had stopped raining when it 669 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 3: was afternoon. Florida rains right everywhere on elsewhere on Earth. 670 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 3: That cools things down, but it makes things hotter in 671 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 3: central Florida. Yeah, and we went outside and had to 672 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 3: stand out there for like twenty minutes before they let 673 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 3: us back in. And dude, I'm a hot, sweaty person anyway, 674 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 3: I have never sweated that much that fast in my life. Yeah, 675 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 3: I was dying and they were like, all right, back 676 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 3: in everybody and hop on stage right. 677 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 2: I remember that I was pretty sweaty too. 678 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 3: Oh man, I was in bad shape. It was not good. 679 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 2: Just wait till twenty seventy pounds. 680 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 3: I now you just melt podcast movement twenty seventy. 681 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: Right right here we are. So the US is actually 682 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: a good example of people not freaking out. Some people 683 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 2: freaking out, but it seems mostly like it's the media 684 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 2: just kind of poking and goosing everybody that Among scholars 685 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 2: who study this, they're not particularly freaked out. They're like, yes, 686 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 2: some people are going to have to move. Yes, it's 687 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 2: going to really start to pick up eventually, but there 688 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: will also be mitigation efforts that we can do. Like 689 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: we're Miami's just too valuable to just go away, So 690 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 2: they're going to figure out how to build sea walls, 691 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 2: protect Miami and make sure that it's aquafer doesn't get 692 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: salinated in ruin. Like the people will just pump money 693 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: into Miami, the US government will, Florida will. But if 694 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 2: you go like a little north, you know who's to 695 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 2: say that Delray Beach or Vero Beach is going to 696 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: be around still at that time. Right, cities will be protected, 697 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: but the smaller towns in between the major cities on 698 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 2: the coast, there's not going to be any money for them, 699 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: So those people are going to have to move. 700 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean that kind of puts things squarely 701 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 3: in the middle of the policy debates we're hearing more 702 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,240 Speaker 3: and more, which is how much do we put into 703 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: places that we think are increasingly unlivable in the future. 704 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,320 Speaker 3: This is something I did not know. I'm glad Livia 705 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 3: dug this up. But FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, 706 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 3: has been buying up properties that are prone to this, 707 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 3: that are just flooding time and time again, and they're 708 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 3: turning this land into wetland and trying to do something 709 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 3: about it. And you know, there are various states that 710 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 3: are saying, like, hey, you know, it's getting harder and 711 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 3: harder to get your house insured against fire. We used 712 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 3: to subsidize these insurance companies. Now we're not doing that. 713 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 3: I have friends in California, like, if you buy a 714 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 3: house in certain parts of California, so sometimes you cannot 715 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 3: even get insurance anymore. 716 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: Right. The same is true in parts of Florida too. 717 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,439 Speaker 2: It's really becoming a big problem to even get insurance rather, 718 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 2: let alone like being able to afford an insurance policy. 719 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 2: And as that happens, as it becomes more and more 720 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 2: apparent that if you move to Florida or you move 721 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 2: to California, there's this huge additional expense or potentially you 722 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 2: might not be able to have home insurance. Like that's 723 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 2: going to affect those markets, and that in and of 724 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 2: itself is going to keep people from migrating there. And 725 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: it's going to also that's what will trigger mass migrations 726 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,320 Speaker 2: from Florida from California because people are going to start 727 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: panicking about their real estate values just plummeting. Yeah, a 728 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 2: lot of people will get out. 729 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 3: People of me, we'll get out. 730 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 2: Yes, And that's a really important point. It doesn't matter 731 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 2: what country you're talking about, whether it's Global North, global South, 732 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. The ability to migrate is typically something reserved 733 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 2: for the more well. 734 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 3: Off groups or to migrate successfully. 735 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 2: Right, Okay, great, The poorest, the most vulnerable people in 736 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 2: no matter whatever country you're talking about, those are the 737 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 2: ones who are at the greatest risk of just getting 738 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: left behind. They don't have the money to move. They don't. 739 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 2: They can't sell their house now because no one wants 740 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 2: to buy it because it's basically valueless, and they're stuck 741 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 2: in this place that everyone else who could migrated out of. 742 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 2: That is going to be a really big thing to 743 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 2: watch for. Those people are going to need help. They're 744 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 2: human beings. They didn't ask for this, That's just how 745 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 2: the dice landed. So they deserve to be helped again, 746 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,720 Speaker 2: just because they're humans, just because they're Americans, just because 747 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 2: they're Zimbabweans, it doesn't matter. That's going to be something 748 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 2: to really pay attention to down the road. 749 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 3: Boy, what kind of world would we be in, my friend, 750 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 3: if the qualification for aid to others was fellow human 751 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 3: and not drawn by boundaries and ideologies. 752 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 2: I hope that that's I mean, my hope is that 753 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,959 Speaker 2: someday we'll hit that point. I don't know if we'll 754 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 2: still be alive or not, but I do hope that. 755 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 2: I do think people will get there if we survive 756 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 2: as species. 757 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 3: I mean, plenty of great organizations have been doing that 758 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 3: since the jump, but I'm talking about major governments in 759 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 3: the world looking at other humans as you know, other humans. 760 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 2: Or even societies too, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah, 761 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: I mean that's just everywhere in the world, there's so 762 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 2: many pockets of just conflict and issues and hatred of 763 00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: people for ultimately like arbitrary reasons. The idea of yeah, 764 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 2: getting to that point, Chuck, it's just it's titillating to me. 765 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 2: I'm titillated right now. I think that's it for now. Huh, 766 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 2: it's got to be Well, we'll revisit this in twenty fifty. 767 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: All right, all right, Well, since Chuck agreed to revisiting 768 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 2: this episode in twenty fifty, everybody, that means it's time 769 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 2: for a listener mail. 770 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 3: Follow up from a backyard chicken farmer or about egg colors. Hey, 771 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 3: I've listened to you goofballs for years. So much love 772 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 3: to you and your gang. Yes, please support your local 773 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 3: farmers with their truly humanly raised eggs, costing in many 774 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 3: cases lessen store bought. Like Chuck said, you're getting an 775 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 3: amazing deal for higher quality eggs. Number two, guys. The 776 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 3: waxy coating is called a bloom. It's a naturally produced 777 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 3: coating which is not hard or thick, that is placed 778 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 3: as a part of the laying process to protect the 779 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 3: egg contents from bacteria. I believe Josh said. 780 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 2: That comes off easily with just a little bit of dawn. 781 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 3: Th'e Please do not use dish soap to wash your eggs. 782 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, while eggshells are strong, they're not inpermeable. Eggs 783 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 3: need to be washed with just water or water and 784 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 3: an egg safe cleaner at a temperature about twenty degrees higher, right, 785 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 3: but no more than that, because you can cook the 786 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 3: egg on the inside. 787 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:17,439 Speaker 2: Oh that makes sense. 788 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 3: Twenty degrees higher than the temperature of the egg interior. 789 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 3: Washing an egg at too high will potentially cook it. 790 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 3: Wash it a temperature lower than the shell contents, and 791 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 3: the permeable nature of the shell will actually absorb the 792 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 3: exterior contents. So you're eating whatever soap that you are using. 793 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 2: Well, not dawn, it says on the label Eggs Safe Cleaner. 794 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 3: This knowledge is gained from keeping my own backyard flock 795 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,240 Speaker 3: for over a decade, and that is from the wonderful Meg. 796 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Meg, that was a top notch email. 797 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 2: We appreciate it, and thank you for saving everybody who's 798 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 2: about to wash their eggs with dish soap. Under my suggestion, 799 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 2: if you want to be like Meg and get in 800 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 2: touch with this and be like, oh no, no, no, here's 801 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 2: what you really should do. We love those kind of emails. 802 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,799 Speaker 2: You can send it off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio 803 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 2: dot com. 804 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 805 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 806 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.