1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:21,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I want to let you know that Rick has 2 00:00:21,476 --> 00:00:25,516 Speaker 1: a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five 3 00:00:25,596 --> 00:00:28,516 Speaker 1: years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to 4 00:00:28,516 --> 00:00:31,636 Speaker 1: talk to more than just musicians, So on his new podcast, 5 00:00:31,756 --> 00:00:37,556 Speaker 1: he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people, anyone 6 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:40,796 Speaker 1: that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe to 7 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:45,556 Speaker 1: Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. Today we have the 8 00:00:45,676 --> 00:00:49,716 Speaker 1: second part of Rick Rubin's conversation with legendary singer songwriter 9 00:00:49,996 --> 00:00:53,036 Speaker 1: Graham Nash. We drop part one a couple of weeks ago, 10 00:00:53,316 --> 00:00:56,036 Speaker 1: so definitely go check that out if you haven't already. 11 00:00:56,836 --> 00:00:59,276 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Graham tells Rick about the time The 12 00:00:59,316 --> 00:01:02,796 Speaker 1: Grateful Dead we're recording next to Csen and how Jerry 13 00:01:02,796 --> 00:01:07,876 Speaker 1: Garcia improvised a near perfect pedal steel solo on Teacher Children. 14 00:01:08,516 --> 00:01:11,476 Speaker 1: Graham also describes a bizarre encounter with the judge who 15 00:01:11,596 --> 00:01:15,236 Speaker 1: sentenced his father to prison, and shares the inspiration behind 16 00:01:15,276 --> 00:01:22,356 Speaker 1: his upcoming solo album. Now this is Broken Record Line 17 00:01:22,396 --> 00:01:25,996 Speaker 1: of notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Michman. Here's 18 00:01:26,036 --> 00:01:29,116 Speaker 1: part two of Rick Rubin's conversation with Graham Nash. They 19 00:01:29,116 --> 00:01:31,956 Speaker 1: start off with Graham talking about how the Classics CSN 20 00:01:32,076 --> 00:01:36,076 Speaker 1: song Our House came to be. Can we talk about 21 00:01:36,156 --> 00:01:37,996 Speaker 1: some of the other songs that you've written, just to 22 00:01:38,396 --> 00:01:41,596 Speaker 1: talk about how they how they came to pass Our House. 23 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:47,796 Speaker 1: I'd taken Joani to breakfast Arts Delhi Unventura Boulevard in 24 00:01:47,876 --> 00:01:51,796 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It's a famous deli, and because the food's 25 00:01:51,836 --> 00:01:55,316 Speaker 1: great and we had a nice breakfast. It was a 26 00:01:55,396 --> 00:01:57,996 Speaker 1: tail end of winter. It was a shitty day. It 27 00:01:58,116 --> 00:02:02,196 Speaker 1: was miserable and it was cold and just not not 28 00:02:02,276 --> 00:02:05,716 Speaker 1: a nice day. So we finished breakfast and we leave 29 00:02:05,956 --> 00:02:09,596 Speaker 1: Arts Deli and we're walking towards the park lot where 30 00:02:09,636 --> 00:02:12,476 Speaker 1: Joan had parked her car, and we saw an antique store, 31 00:02:12,516 --> 00:02:15,596 Speaker 1: and of course we're looking in the window. I like 32 00:02:15,756 --> 00:02:19,356 Speaker 1: to I like to see stuff that people have made 33 00:02:19,676 --> 00:02:22,436 Speaker 1: and said, you know, isn't this fantastic? And one hundred 34 00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:25,876 Speaker 1: years later it's covered in dusting. Some weird store. Anyway, 35 00:02:26,316 --> 00:02:31,236 Speaker 1: Jonnie saw a vase that she liked, very simple, about 36 00:02:31,236 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: ten inches high, had some hand painted flowers around the 37 00:02:35,236 --> 00:02:37,796 Speaker 1: top edge. It was beautiful and it was reasonably priced, 38 00:02:37,836 --> 00:02:40,516 Speaker 1: so she bought it. And as I said, it was 39 00:02:40,556 --> 00:02:43,156 Speaker 1: a miserable day. So we get in John's car and 40 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:45,876 Speaker 1: we drive down to the house in Laura Canyon and 41 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:48,676 Speaker 1: go through the front door, and I said, hey, John, 42 00:02:49,356 --> 00:02:51,636 Speaker 1: why don't I light a fire and you put some 43 00:02:51,676 --> 00:02:55,156 Speaker 1: flowers in that vase that you just bought today. I'm 44 00:02:55,156 --> 00:02:57,876 Speaker 1: a musician. How can I not follow that? How can 45 00:02:57,916 --> 00:03:01,836 Speaker 1: I not go away a second? That's an interesting phrase. 46 00:03:02,756 --> 00:03:07,396 Speaker 1: I've finished this and it only took a maybe an 47 00:03:07,436 --> 00:03:12,396 Speaker 1: hour and twenty minutes to finish. Unbelievable. Yeah, it speaks 48 00:03:12,436 --> 00:03:19,276 Speaker 1: to the as an artist, you being aware at all times, 49 00:03:20,036 --> 00:03:26,996 Speaker 1: looking for opportunities to turn real life into the art 50 00:03:27,036 --> 00:03:29,756 Speaker 1: that you make. That's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, 51 00:03:29,796 --> 00:03:33,316 Speaker 1: you didn't sit down to write a song. You said 52 00:03:33,356 --> 00:03:39,236 Speaker 1: something offhanded, recognize hmm, that sounds like something right, and 53 00:03:39,356 --> 00:03:41,636 Speaker 1: you followed up, which is another part of it, because 54 00:03:41,876 --> 00:03:45,436 Speaker 1: both you have to have the the awareness to recognize 55 00:03:45,436 --> 00:03:50,196 Speaker 1: it and then the discipline to not do what you 56 00:03:50,196 --> 00:03:53,276 Speaker 1: were planning to do, but sit down and play and 57 00:03:53,836 --> 00:03:57,436 Speaker 1: commit to doing this thing and don't forget. You have 58 00:03:57,516 --> 00:04:00,276 Speaker 1: to add something to that. Yes, I'm living in a 59 00:04:00,356 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 1: house with a brilliant writer, Yes, who normally is at 60 00:04:04,436 --> 00:04:09,156 Speaker 1: the piano, and I always gave her the space to 61 00:04:09,156 --> 00:04:13,836 Speaker 1: to write, always always encouraged to write. I would go 62 00:04:13,876 --> 00:04:16,596 Speaker 1: on long walks and she'd write, you know, but this 63 00:04:16,716 --> 00:04:18,876 Speaker 1: time she wasn't at the piano. She was actually in 64 00:04:18,876 --> 00:04:21,156 Speaker 1: the garden looking for flowers to put in the varse. 65 00:04:21,236 --> 00:04:25,356 Speaker 1: So I had an hour to write it. Amazing. Is 66 00:04:25,356 --> 00:04:28,276 Speaker 1: that the only time you've been in a relationship with 67 00:04:28,516 --> 00:04:34,316 Speaker 1: another writer? Not quite. I spent a couple of years 68 00:04:34,316 --> 00:04:37,636 Speaker 1: with Reader Coolidge, how beautiful and reader. It was the 69 00:04:37,676 --> 00:04:44,596 Speaker 1: writer and she actually wrote that strange piano change in Layla. Wow. 70 00:04:44,956 --> 00:04:50,556 Speaker 1: And unfortunately her boyfriend Jim Gordon said he'd written it Wow. 71 00:04:50,716 --> 00:04:54,396 Speaker 1: Can you imagine how much money that reader could have made? Yeah? 72 00:04:54,596 --> 00:04:57,716 Speaker 1: From Layla. I'm just curious about this. Was there any 73 00:04:57,716 --> 00:05:02,396 Speaker 1: sense of competition living with a great artist, Not at all. 74 00:05:03,156 --> 00:05:07,476 Speaker 1: There was no way I recognized the genius of Johnny 75 00:05:07,756 --> 00:05:12,716 Speaker 1: in those days, and I would never get in the way. Yeah, 76 00:05:12,756 --> 00:05:14,556 Speaker 1: it's just a fan. You were a fan, and she 77 00:05:14,636 --> 00:05:16,676 Speaker 1: hopefully she was a fan of yours. I don't know that, 78 00:05:16,716 --> 00:05:18,796 Speaker 1: but she was at least a fan of yours. As 79 00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:21,196 Speaker 1: a human, I don't think that we could have spent 80 00:05:21,476 --> 00:05:23,676 Speaker 1: the time that we did together, and she not at 81 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:30,156 Speaker 1: least recognized that I was a decent writer, you know. Okay, 82 00:05:30,156 --> 00:05:34,676 Speaker 1: how about carry Anne? Ah? Carry Anne was a Holly 83 00:05:34,756 --> 00:05:38,996 Speaker 1: song that started out by Tony Hicks, I think, and 84 00:05:39,676 --> 00:05:41,756 Speaker 1: it turned into a song that we had written about 85 00:05:41,796 --> 00:05:47,796 Speaker 1: Maryanne Faithful, and we didn't have the balls to call it, 86 00:05:47,836 --> 00:05:50,556 Speaker 1: Hey mary Anne, And we were trying to come up 87 00:05:50,596 --> 00:05:54,196 Speaker 1: with a girl's name that would disguise the fact that 88 00:05:54,276 --> 00:05:56,676 Speaker 1: it was about Mary Unfaithful, and we came up with 89 00:05:56,836 --> 00:06:00,876 Speaker 1: the with the title carry Anne. Had it been called 90 00:06:01,756 --> 00:06:07,156 Speaker 1: mary Anne in that moment in time, would everyone have said, oh, 91 00:06:07,196 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 1: that's Marion Faithful or not? Necessarily, they would have known. 92 00:06:10,556 --> 00:06:12,716 Speaker 1: She was quite famous at that point because she was 93 00:06:12,756 --> 00:06:16,636 Speaker 1: with Mick and Keith, you know, and had done all 94 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:20,316 Speaker 1: the being busted naked, you know, a lot all the 95 00:06:20,316 --> 00:06:25,596 Speaker 1: stuff that unfortunately Marianne went in her life. But she 96 00:06:25,756 --> 00:06:30,196 Speaker 1: is a brilliant writer, Marianne. She really is. Marrakesh Express. 97 00:06:30,756 --> 00:06:35,836 Speaker 1: I'd taken a vacation from the Hollies in nineteen sixty six, 98 00:06:36,636 --> 00:06:40,596 Speaker 1: and I'd heard stories of the American beat poets going 99 00:06:40,636 --> 00:06:43,396 Speaker 1: down to this place called Marrakesh and smoking a lot 100 00:06:43,396 --> 00:06:46,156 Speaker 1: of dope and writing poetry and all the stuff they 101 00:06:46,196 --> 00:06:50,716 Speaker 1: got up to, and I kind of I thought it's 102 00:06:50,756 --> 00:06:54,076 Speaker 1: an interesting idea. And so because I had a vacation, 103 00:06:54,476 --> 00:06:59,036 Speaker 1: my wife and I at the time, flew to Casablanca 104 00:06:59,436 --> 00:07:03,636 Speaker 1: and walked around Casablanca. It was a phenomenal place. And 105 00:07:03,676 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 1: then we took a train going south to Marrakesh. I 106 00:07:08,116 --> 00:07:12,356 Speaker 1: was in a first class compartment with two older American 107 00:07:12,436 --> 00:07:16,196 Speaker 1: leaders who had their gray hair dyed blue, which was 108 00:07:16,596 --> 00:07:20,476 Speaker 1: kind of shocking to me at that time. And I 109 00:07:20,996 --> 00:07:24,596 Speaker 1: left the first class compartment and I go to the 110 00:07:24,596 --> 00:07:29,796 Speaker 1: third class compartment and that's where that's where almost it 111 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:32,316 Speaker 1: was like Snoop Dog was having a party there, you know, 112 00:07:32,676 --> 00:07:36,116 Speaker 1: you know, there was dogs and pigs and chickens all 113 00:07:36,156 --> 00:07:41,156 Speaker 1: walking around and people pouring mint tea from like four 114 00:07:41,196 --> 00:07:43,316 Speaker 1: feet in the air into the small coupe and not 115 00:07:43,436 --> 00:07:46,676 Speaker 1: spilling a drawer. It was amazing. But that's where mark 116 00:07:46,916 --> 00:07:50,356 Speaker 1: Express was born. And I just found my original lyrics, 117 00:07:50,956 --> 00:07:56,596 Speaker 1: which which I'm happy about. Fantastic. So did it start? 118 00:07:56,596 --> 00:07:58,556 Speaker 1: Do you remember if it started with lyrics first or 119 00:07:58,596 --> 00:08:01,916 Speaker 1: just the title. I didn't get to the title until 120 00:08:01,996 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: once again, at the end of the first chorus. My 121 00:08:05,556 --> 00:08:07,876 Speaker 1: memory of it is that it all happened at the 122 00:08:07,916 --> 00:08:13,476 Speaker 1: same time, me trying to translate my feelings of having 123 00:08:13,556 --> 00:08:16,916 Speaker 1: just come back from the third class compartment party, and 124 00:08:17,116 --> 00:08:19,876 Speaker 1: it all came out at the same time. The rhythm, 125 00:08:20,316 --> 00:08:23,036 Speaker 1: the chords on the guitar, and the lyrics, it all 126 00:08:23,076 --> 00:08:26,236 Speaker 1: came out at the same time. That one beautiful. It's 127 00:08:26,236 --> 00:08:29,276 Speaker 1: beautiful when it happens. Yeah, amazing, Yeah, yeah, it feels 128 00:08:29,316 --> 00:08:31,956 Speaker 1: it feels like magic when it happens. I thought it 129 00:08:31,996 --> 00:08:34,596 Speaker 1: was pretty good, but that once again, at that time, 130 00:08:34,716 --> 00:08:36,596 Speaker 1: it was one of the reasons why I felt that 131 00:08:36,636 --> 00:08:38,476 Speaker 1: I had to leave the Hollies because they didn't like 132 00:08:38,596 --> 00:08:43,356 Speaker 1: Marrakesh Express. Wow. Somewhere in the bowels of Emi, there's 133 00:08:43,436 --> 00:08:47,076 Speaker 1: a tape of just the track of the Hollies doing 134 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:51,356 Speaker 1: Marrakesh Express, but there's no there's no train in there. 135 00:08:52,876 --> 00:08:57,036 Speaker 1: I want I wanted. I wanted that kind of a 136 00:08:57,116 --> 00:09:01,636 Speaker 1: rhythm train, which Stephen brilliantly did on the record when 137 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 1: he put those uh what sound like trumpets in harmony there, 138 00:09:06,196 --> 00:09:10,636 Speaker 1: you know, But that's Stephen beautiful because it was David 139 00:09:10,876 --> 00:09:15,076 Speaker 1: once again saved my life in a way, because the 140 00:09:15,116 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: worst thing you can do to a rider is give 141 00:09:17,076 --> 00:09:23,396 Speaker 1: himself doubt when you say something that questions his veracity. 142 00:09:23,836 --> 00:09:26,196 Speaker 1: That's awful to do to a rider. But it was 143 00:09:26,276 --> 00:09:28,796 Speaker 1: Krasban and said, wait a second, let me tell you 144 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:33,596 Speaker 1: something that's a fine song. They're the crazy ones, and 145 00:09:33,756 --> 00:09:36,636 Speaker 1: it was once again another reason why I had to 146 00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 1: leave the Hollies. Wow on a carousel On a carousel 147 00:09:43,156 --> 00:09:46,196 Speaker 1: is one of those songs that is completely made up 148 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:50,436 Speaker 1: and completely made up from something that we had experienced 149 00:09:51,116 --> 00:09:55,596 Speaker 1: when we were children, on actual riding on a carousel, 150 00:09:56,076 --> 00:09:58,716 Speaker 1: and how all the horses are trying to catch up 151 00:09:58,716 --> 00:10:01,236 Speaker 1: with each other, but they're stationary, of course because they're 152 00:10:01,236 --> 00:10:05,636 Speaker 1: locked into the carousel. But it was basically a song 153 00:10:05,916 --> 00:10:12,036 Speaker 1: totally made up from nothing. It's a beauty and teacher children. Well, 154 00:10:13,036 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 1: i'd started teaching children in my last days in England. 155 00:10:17,556 --> 00:10:21,556 Speaker 1: Basically when I came to America. One of the things 156 00:10:21,596 --> 00:10:24,676 Speaker 1: that I was able to do, because I was earning 157 00:10:25,156 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 1: a great deal of money at that point, was to 158 00:10:27,436 --> 00:10:31,996 Speaker 1: collect photography. And I had I think about one hundred 159 00:10:32,036 --> 00:10:35,156 Speaker 1: and fifty of the images to a show in Santa 160 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:41,196 Speaker 1: Clara in California. And I've never told any gallery owner 161 00:10:41,356 --> 00:10:44,676 Speaker 1: how to hang my stuff. I'm very interested in how 162 00:10:44,756 --> 00:10:47,516 Speaker 1: they would hang it, because when you have a picture 163 00:10:47,516 --> 00:10:50,116 Speaker 1: on a wall, it affects the way you see the 164 00:10:50,156 --> 00:10:52,956 Speaker 1: next picture on the wall. And one of the images 165 00:10:52,956 --> 00:10:57,836 Speaker 1: that I bought by Arnold Newman was a portrait of Krupp, 166 00:10:58,716 --> 00:11:01,876 Speaker 1: who was a family member of the Krupp family that 167 00:11:02,116 --> 00:11:06,396 Speaker 1: manufactured all the armaments for both World Wars in Germany. 168 00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:11,516 Speaker 1: And I realized that if we didn't teach our children 169 00:11:11,556 --> 00:11:14,396 Speaker 1: a better way of dealing with each other, that humanity 170 00:11:14,436 --> 00:11:18,196 Speaker 1: itself was in deep trouble. And that's when I got 171 00:11:18,196 --> 00:11:21,556 Speaker 1: to finish teach your children. The recording of it was 172 00:11:21,596 --> 00:11:24,556 Speaker 1: pretty simple. It was me and Stephen on acoustic guitars 173 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:27,476 Speaker 1: and Dallas Taylor, our drummer, on tambourine, and we have 174 00:11:27,596 --> 00:11:31,556 Speaker 1: made the track and we realized that it needed a solo, 175 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:35,636 Speaker 1: and Steven said, you know, forgive me, but I'm kind 176 00:11:35,636 --> 00:11:38,076 Speaker 1: of tired of doing solos. I've done. I've done a 177 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:41,196 Speaker 1: lot of solos, you know, is there any other thing 178 00:11:41,276 --> 00:11:44,676 Speaker 1: that we can figure out? And Crosby said, hey, wait 179 00:11:44,716 --> 00:11:48,356 Speaker 1: a second. Jerry Garcia has been learning pedal steel for 180 00:11:48,396 --> 00:11:52,356 Speaker 1: the last three months. Maybe Jerry can put pedal steel 181 00:11:52,396 --> 00:11:55,796 Speaker 1: on it. So we made a demo, a rough mix 182 00:11:55,836 --> 00:11:58,636 Speaker 1: of the track. I told David to go over to Jerry, 183 00:11:58,676 --> 00:12:00,916 Speaker 1: who was in the next studio with the Dead in 184 00:12:00,996 --> 00:12:04,516 Speaker 1: Wally Hiders in San Francisco, and see if Jerry likes 185 00:12:04,516 --> 00:12:07,396 Speaker 1: the song, and if he likes the song, does he 186 00:12:07,516 --> 00:12:10,236 Speaker 1: want to put the pedal steel. He loved the song. 187 00:12:10,436 --> 00:12:12,876 Speaker 1: He came in, he brought his pedal steel in the studio. 188 00:12:13,716 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: I played it. He played the first take. I said, fantastic, unbelievable, 189 00:12:20,116 --> 00:12:23,756 Speaker 1: that's exactly what this song needed. And Jerry said, and 190 00:12:23,836 --> 00:12:25,716 Speaker 1: you know, I made a couple of mistakes. Do you 191 00:12:25,756 --> 00:12:28,676 Speaker 1: mind if I do a second track? And I said, absolutely, 192 00:12:28,676 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 1: you can do a second track, but I gotta tell 193 00:12:30,836 --> 00:12:33,876 Speaker 1: you I'm not going to use it. What you just 194 00:12:33,956 --> 00:12:38,396 Speaker 1: did when you were learning the song was so perfect. 195 00:12:38,756 --> 00:12:41,756 Speaker 1: We did take the two notes that were out slightly 196 00:12:42,156 --> 00:12:45,516 Speaker 1: wrong out of his second track, but I used that 197 00:12:45,556 --> 00:12:48,996 Speaker 1: first track because it was beautiful, and I think it 198 00:12:48,316 --> 00:12:52,276 Speaker 1: was a great deal of the reason why it became 199 00:12:52,356 --> 00:12:55,876 Speaker 1: such a big hit. Two things interesting about that story. 200 00:12:55,956 --> 00:12:59,596 Speaker 1: The first one is a photograph, so another form of 201 00:12:59,676 --> 00:13:04,076 Speaker 1: art that you're interested in inspires the lyric. Yes, and 202 00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:09,316 Speaker 1: then the happenstance of Jerry Garcia happened to be in 203 00:13:09,356 --> 00:13:12,436 Speaker 1: the next studio, happened to be learning this new instrument, 204 00:13:12,556 --> 00:13:15,836 Speaker 1: David happened to know that. It's like, there's so much 205 00:13:16,876 --> 00:13:20,556 Speaker 1: that just and you say that might that's part of 206 00:13:20,556 --> 00:13:23,516 Speaker 1: why the song is the song. Yeah, it's an amazing 207 00:13:24,196 --> 00:13:28,156 Speaker 1: confluence of events, so many of which that are out 208 00:13:28,196 --> 00:13:32,956 Speaker 1: of our control when we're making something great that it's 209 00:13:32,996 --> 00:13:35,836 Speaker 1: a marvel and to witness it happen again and again, 210 00:13:35,956 --> 00:13:37,716 Speaker 1: because we've got to see this over the course of 211 00:13:37,716 --> 00:13:42,156 Speaker 1: our lives, over and over again. It's a true mystical 212 00:13:42,436 --> 00:13:47,436 Speaker 1: experience when you see these elements come together in a 213 00:13:47,516 --> 00:13:53,636 Speaker 1: way that it seems almost random, but through the recognition 214 00:13:53,676 --> 00:13:57,156 Speaker 1: of oh maybe maybe if this with that right, maybe 215 00:13:57,156 --> 00:14:01,636 Speaker 1: that'll work. It's amazing. Yeah, amazing, because you know, we 216 00:14:01,676 --> 00:14:06,196 Speaker 1: wouldn't finding our way through music, but always keeping in 217 00:14:06,276 --> 00:14:10,796 Speaker 1: mind what is right for the track. And Jerry's solo 218 00:14:10,876 --> 00:14:13,236 Speaker 1: at the beginning and the solo in the middle, of course, 219 00:14:13,876 --> 00:14:16,836 Speaker 1: was just perfect for the track, and he'd done it 220 00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:21,196 Speaker 1: in one take and amazing. I love one takes. I'm 221 00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:25,516 Speaker 1: I'm with Neil on that thing. I love when you've 222 00:14:25,516 --> 00:14:28,196 Speaker 1: done a song in the studio you know, twenty times 223 00:14:28,796 --> 00:14:31,636 Speaker 1: it loses something, you know, and I've been lucky enough 224 00:14:31,676 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 1: to recognize when it's right, agree under and to argue 225 00:14:38,636 --> 00:14:41,916 Speaker 1: the opposite point. Beatles did a lot of takes, and 226 00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:46,876 Speaker 1: I really like those records. Yes, yes, that's true. So yeah, 227 00:14:46,916 --> 00:14:50,116 Speaker 1: but you know there's probably Beatles songs that were done 228 00:14:50,116 --> 00:14:53,916 Speaker 1: in one take too. Oh, absolutely absolutely. But I think 229 00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:55,476 Speaker 1: if we listened to him, we wouldn't say the one 230 00:14:55,516 --> 00:14:58,116 Speaker 1: take songs are necessarily better than the ones that know 231 00:14:58,436 --> 00:15:01,596 Speaker 1: more effort. It's like whatever is right for like you're 232 00:15:02,516 --> 00:15:05,436 Speaker 1: taking care of each song in the way that's best 233 00:15:05,476 --> 00:15:08,236 Speaker 1: for that song, whatever that is. If it's one take, great, 234 00:15:08,796 --> 00:15:11,996 Speaker 1: and if it's trying it many times until you find 235 00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:14,396 Speaker 1: the way, it's like, we don't know, we can't know, no, 236 00:15:14,796 --> 00:15:17,716 Speaker 1: but we know when it's right, absolutely, and that's the 237 00:15:17,796 --> 00:15:21,236 Speaker 1: best and it's the best feeling because until it's right, 238 00:15:21,676 --> 00:15:24,396 Speaker 1: I always have the feeling we don't have a we 239 00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:28,436 Speaker 1: don't have a way to make it right until you 240 00:15:28,516 --> 00:15:31,996 Speaker 1: do it, until we happen to recognize that it's already right. Yes, 241 00:15:32,796 --> 00:15:34,916 Speaker 1: you can't do it in advance, that's right, and it 242 00:15:34,956 --> 00:15:37,676 Speaker 1: takes courage to do that, you know, it takes courage 243 00:15:37,716 --> 00:15:40,716 Speaker 1: to tell Jerry Garcia, you know, you know, sure you 244 00:15:40,716 --> 00:15:43,356 Speaker 1: can do a second track, but I'm never gonna Okay, 245 00:15:43,996 --> 00:15:47,996 Speaker 1: they had the song that had very CSN like harmony 246 00:15:48,076 --> 00:15:51,396 Speaker 1: Uncle John's band. Was the fact that you guys were 247 00:15:51,436 --> 00:15:54,276 Speaker 1: recording next to them, that have any impact on that 248 00:15:54,316 --> 00:15:57,916 Speaker 1: song coming into existence, do you know? Undoubtedly they would 249 00:15:57,996 --> 00:16:00,756 Speaker 1: come into the studio and watch what we did and 250 00:16:00,796 --> 00:16:03,436 Speaker 1: how we did it. Yeah, and then they started to 251 00:16:03,436 --> 00:16:07,276 Speaker 1: do that because they like harmonies too, you know. Yeah, 252 00:16:07,316 --> 00:16:10,196 Speaker 1: but it's such a specific thing what Crusby, Stills and 253 00:16:10,276 --> 00:16:14,436 Speaker 1: Nash does, and that's one of the few songs, a 254 00:16:14,636 --> 00:16:19,556 Speaker 1: NANCSN song that has the makings of a CSN like 255 00:16:20,196 --> 00:16:23,476 Speaker 1: blend right. They started to do what we did, which 256 00:16:23,636 --> 00:16:26,756 Speaker 1: was we'd put up an eighty seven and we'd open 257 00:16:26,796 --> 00:16:28,636 Speaker 1: it up all the way around and we'd just stand 258 00:16:28,716 --> 00:16:32,116 Speaker 1: the three of us and I would stand further away 259 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:35,596 Speaker 1: from the microphone than David did, because I have this 260 00:16:35,716 --> 00:16:38,756 Speaker 1: voice that cuts through everything. It's just the way my 261 00:16:38,916 --> 00:16:42,996 Speaker 1: voice is. And when they saw that that we were 262 00:16:43,036 --> 00:16:47,356 Speaker 1: position in ourselves around an open microphone, they took that 263 00:16:47,436 --> 00:16:50,596 Speaker 1: and did that and that's how they started to record 264 00:16:50,756 --> 00:16:53,676 Speaker 1: because normally they would put Jerry would put his part on, 265 00:16:53,716 --> 00:16:56,676 Speaker 1: and then Phil would put his part on, and then twhoever. 266 00:16:56,876 --> 00:16:59,956 Speaker 1: You know, right, in general, is there a difference between 267 00:17:00,996 --> 00:17:06,636 Speaker 1: singing together versus stacking tracks? Absolutely? That example, absolutely, Tell 268 00:17:06,636 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 1: me about it. Tell me about what happens different What 269 00:17:09,276 --> 00:17:13,116 Speaker 1: happens differently is vibration when the three of us are 270 00:17:13,156 --> 00:17:17,196 Speaker 1: singing around a microphone, knowing which distance each one of 271 00:17:17,316 --> 00:17:21,636 Speaker 1: us needs to be to get the blend correct. It 272 00:17:21,676 --> 00:17:25,236 Speaker 1: takes work to do that, but we managed to do 273 00:17:25,276 --> 00:17:30,196 Speaker 1: that totally naturally, because there is a difference between when 274 00:17:30,236 --> 00:17:32,796 Speaker 1: you put on a melody and then you double that, 275 00:17:32,876 --> 00:17:34,636 Speaker 1: and you put on a harmony and then you do that. 276 00:17:34,716 --> 00:17:40,836 Speaker 1: But with individual takes, there isn't the DNA blend of 277 00:17:41,036 --> 00:17:45,316 Speaker 1: three voices hitting the air at the same time. It's 278 00:17:45,356 --> 00:17:50,676 Speaker 1: a different sound if it's only one voice after another voice. 279 00:17:51,276 --> 00:17:54,116 Speaker 1: It's fascinating because so few artists do it that way 280 00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,156 Speaker 1: as well, so few we could do it though. Yeah, 281 00:17:57,316 --> 00:17:59,916 Speaker 1: do you remember did you all wear headphones when you 282 00:17:59,916 --> 00:18:02,876 Speaker 1: were doing it or were you singing with your no headphones? 283 00:18:02,916 --> 00:18:05,596 Speaker 1: Do you remember? Yeah? I do remember. We always use 284 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:09,356 Speaker 1: headphones with just one with one right, so that we 285 00:18:09,396 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 1: had the other ear free to be able to listen 286 00:18:12,436 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: to what the other guys were doing. We wouldn't put 287 00:18:15,356 --> 00:18:18,636 Speaker 1: both headphones on. We would only put one side on. 288 00:18:19,436 --> 00:18:23,436 Speaker 1: Understood for the blend part of it of knowing where 289 00:18:23,476 --> 00:18:26,036 Speaker 1: you were standing. That was more based on what you 290 00:18:26,036 --> 00:18:28,716 Speaker 1: were hearing in the phone, I imagine, because you couldn't 291 00:18:28,836 --> 00:18:33,636 Speaker 1: tell how it was affecting the mic just looking at it, right, 292 00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:38,756 Speaker 1: But then the other ear was for the true mingling 293 00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:42,916 Speaker 1: of the frequencies. Yes, exactly in real life, exactly right. 294 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:46,076 Speaker 1: Because it is different. It's hard to explain how when 295 00:18:46,116 --> 00:18:49,556 Speaker 1: you put on headphones it's just different. Yes, it is. 296 00:18:50,276 --> 00:18:52,396 Speaker 1: Then you have to deal with it. But we knew, 297 00:18:52,476 --> 00:18:55,756 Speaker 1: we knew how to do our voices. Like I said, 298 00:18:55,796 --> 00:18:59,156 Speaker 1: that sound csn hand vocally. It was done in forty 299 00:18:59,196 --> 00:19:04,116 Speaker 1: five seconds. It was not saying it just bloody happened, 300 00:19:04,316 --> 00:19:08,396 Speaker 1: and it happened so beautifully that I then made I 301 00:19:08,476 --> 00:19:11,036 Speaker 1: have to go to England and undo my life. I 302 00:19:11,076 --> 00:19:15,076 Speaker 1: want to follow this sound. This sound is amazing. I mean, yes, 303 00:19:15,236 --> 00:19:17,956 Speaker 1: anyone can sing the same notes that we can. You 304 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:21,516 Speaker 1: can't sound like us. Yeah, we'll be back after a 305 00:19:21,556 --> 00:19:28,516 Speaker 1: quick break with more from Rick Rubin and Graham Nash. 306 00:19:28,676 --> 00:19:33,356 Speaker 1: We're back with Rick Rubin's conversation with Graham Nash. Coming 307 00:19:33,396 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 1: from England, did you have any sense of feeling like 308 00:19:37,196 --> 00:19:41,756 Speaker 1: an outsider when you came absolutely different than the other people. Yeah, 309 00:19:41,756 --> 00:19:44,556 Speaker 1: but I was an outsider that I had a history 310 00:19:44,756 --> 00:19:47,956 Speaker 1: of knowing how to make hit records because I'd been 311 00:19:47,956 --> 00:19:50,316 Speaker 1: in the Hollies for seven years and like I said, 312 00:19:50,356 --> 00:19:52,836 Speaker 1: we had fifteen or so top ten records. So I 313 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:58,636 Speaker 1: wasn't outsider, but I came with a certain weight. Yes, 314 00:19:58,916 --> 00:20:04,676 Speaker 1: And you came post British invasion, where basically all of 315 00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:07,596 Speaker 1: the music being made in California at that time, in 316 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:10,516 Speaker 1: what's one form or another, seemed to be influenced by 317 00:20:10,596 --> 00:20:13,556 Speaker 1: what was going on in England. Yeah. We were amazed 318 00:20:13,556 --> 00:20:16,116 Speaker 1: in England that we would take American songs and sing 319 00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:19,276 Speaker 1: them with a kind of a British accent and sell 320 00:20:19,356 --> 00:20:22,436 Speaker 1: them back to the Americans. That was weird to us, 321 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:26,716 Speaker 1: but it's what we did, you know, Because you'd have 322 00:20:26,796 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 1: somebody that was in the Merchant Navy. You'd have a 323 00:20:29,396 --> 00:20:31,956 Speaker 1: brother or a cousin or somebody, and they would go 324 00:20:31,996 --> 00:20:35,436 Speaker 1: to America and they were musicians, so they would bring 325 00:20:35,436 --> 00:20:39,716 Speaker 1: records back. So we were hearing all the Miracles and 326 00:20:40,476 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 1: Barrett Strong and all these really strange rhythm and blues 327 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:51,276 Speaker 1: things that hadn't hit the charts in England. And yeah, 328 00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:54,876 Speaker 1: the British Invasion. What a strange theme that was. Yeah, 329 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:57,396 Speaker 1: we're making all this American music and singing it with 330 00:20:57,396 --> 00:21:00,316 Speaker 1: a British accent and selling it right back to the Americans. 331 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:04,636 Speaker 1: This is amazing. Yeah, I think there's something about I 332 00:21:04,956 --> 00:21:07,316 Speaker 1: think it's more than just singing it with a British accent. 333 00:21:07,436 --> 00:21:15,836 Speaker 1: I think the romantic view from a distance allows a 334 00:21:15,996 --> 00:21:19,596 Speaker 1: different interpretation, not even just in the accents, but even 335 00:21:19,636 --> 00:21:23,076 Speaker 1: in the way the music's approached. It's like, we can 336 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:27,876 Speaker 1: use the example of led Zeppelin and the American blues 337 00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:34,996 Speaker 1: that it's based on. No American blues man would take 338 00:21:35,036 --> 00:21:39,996 Speaker 1: it to such bombastic. It would be unseemly to do 339 00:21:40,036 --> 00:21:44,716 Speaker 1: what led Zeppelin did from the blues master perspective. Yet 340 00:21:45,636 --> 00:21:49,156 Speaker 1: they were taking this fantasy from a distance in the 341 00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:52,756 Speaker 1: same way that Sergio Leone made the Spaghetti Westerns that 342 00:21:52,796 --> 00:21:56,356 Speaker 1: were different than the Western Westerns. It's like seeing it 343 00:21:56,396 --> 00:21:59,356 Speaker 1: from a distance can give you a romantic vision of 344 00:21:59,396 --> 00:22:04,396 Speaker 1: it that's bigger than the reality of the situation. Yeah, 345 00:22:04,596 --> 00:22:07,396 Speaker 1: it feels like the Hollies had that. It's like, yes, 346 00:22:07,476 --> 00:22:10,676 Speaker 1: there was the influence of the American music, but it 347 00:22:10,716 --> 00:22:14,036 Speaker 1: didn't sound like the American music because you guys were 348 00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:17,596 Speaker 1: different and your life experience was different, right, And we'd 349 00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:21,516 Speaker 1: all we'd all learned, you know, from skiffle. You know, 350 00:22:21,596 --> 00:22:25,676 Speaker 1: we'd all learned from from early folk music. And we 351 00:22:25,756 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 1: started out in dance halls, and we wanted to make 352 00:22:28,756 --> 00:22:31,796 Speaker 1: music that people could dance too, and we wanted to 353 00:22:31,796 --> 00:22:34,676 Speaker 1: make them think too, and why not do both things 354 00:22:34,716 --> 00:22:38,036 Speaker 1: at the same time. But yeah, the Hollies did have 355 00:22:38,116 --> 00:22:41,716 Speaker 1: a certain sound that was different than American bands, that's 356 00:22:41,716 --> 00:22:44,236 Speaker 1: for sure. And let's talk about skiffle a little bit, 357 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,196 Speaker 1: because that was not something that happened in the United States, no, 358 00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,716 Speaker 1: or at least it didn't happen as being called skiffle. 359 00:22:51,356 --> 00:22:55,636 Speaker 1: Tell me about skiffle. There was an Irish folk singer 360 00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:59,196 Speaker 1: called Lonnie Donegan, and he went to America and he 361 00:23:00,596 --> 00:23:04,996 Speaker 1: witnessed Lad Belly and he witnessed all these blues people 362 00:23:05,196 --> 00:23:09,476 Speaker 1: and how simple it was. Big Bill runs just on 363 00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:14,076 Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, and he brought that music back with him 364 00:23:14,436 --> 00:23:20,116 Speaker 1: from America. So now you have to think of Okay, 365 00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:22,636 Speaker 1: in the late fifties, it was only ten years since 366 00:23:22,676 --> 00:23:26,716 Speaker 1: World War two happened, and there was nothing that fifteen 367 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:30,876 Speaker 1: and sixteen year old kids could do, particularly where I lived, 368 00:23:31,196 --> 00:23:34,196 Speaker 1: there was nothing to do. Really. You had a ball 369 00:23:34,276 --> 00:23:36,596 Speaker 1: you could kick around or play cricket with, you know, 370 00:23:36,996 --> 00:23:39,836 Speaker 1: but there was no There was no music because we 371 00:23:39,876 --> 00:23:43,676 Speaker 1: couldn't afford it. And then skiffle came along, where if 372 00:23:43,716 --> 00:23:46,956 Speaker 1: you had a cheap acoustic guitar and you created a 373 00:23:47,036 --> 00:23:50,716 Speaker 1: bass from a t chest box with a pole and 374 00:23:50,796 --> 00:23:55,476 Speaker 1: a string that you could play the bass, and for 375 00:23:55,556 --> 00:23:58,556 Speaker 1: the drums you would put thimbles on your right hand 376 00:23:58,596 --> 00:24:02,196 Speaker 1: if you right handed, and we had a washboard, which 377 00:24:02,236 --> 00:24:05,356 Speaker 1: is an instrument that your grandmother used to wash clothes 378 00:24:05,396 --> 00:24:10,516 Speaker 1: with and go stop, and so it was simple, it 379 00:24:10,596 --> 00:24:13,436 Speaker 1: was cheap. We could afford to do that, and we 380 00:24:13,676 --> 00:24:16,716 Speaker 1: all of a sudden we had something to do and 381 00:24:16,756 --> 00:24:21,996 Speaker 1: we followed it directly. We loved skiffle and it started 382 00:24:22,036 --> 00:24:27,196 Speaker 1: the background of our musical journey. And Lonnie Dogan is 383 00:24:27,356 --> 00:24:30,996 Speaker 1: very famous in England. I mean, ask anybody, they all 384 00:24:31,036 --> 00:24:34,196 Speaker 1: know who Lonnie Donigan was because he was very important 385 00:24:34,196 --> 00:24:37,756 Speaker 1: in the creation of music in England. I guess the 386 00:24:37,836 --> 00:24:42,076 Speaker 1: closest approximation we had in the United States would have 387 00:24:42,076 --> 00:24:45,316 Speaker 1: been jug band music, which wasn't particularly popular. It was 388 00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:50,476 Speaker 1: more of an a tiny regional fringe movement. Yes, so 389 00:24:50,796 --> 00:24:54,036 Speaker 1: Lonnie Donigan must have seen that. I had no idea 390 00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:56,316 Speaker 1: that the roots of skiffle were rooted in American music. 391 00:24:56,356 --> 00:24:58,676 Speaker 1: I never would have guessed that. They never would have 392 00:24:58,676 --> 00:25:01,876 Speaker 1: guessed that directly. Fascinating. Yeah, I have one more song 393 00:25:01,956 --> 00:25:03,516 Speaker 1: to ask about, so I'll ask about it before I 394 00:25:03,556 --> 00:25:06,956 Speaker 1: go on. Okay, the next song to ask about is 395 00:25:07,036 --> 00:25:10,316 Speaker 1: just a Song before I Go, which was the biggest 396 00:25:10,396 --> 00:25:13,476 Speaker 1: hit of the band. Yeah. If I knew it was 397 00:25:13,516 --> 00:25:15,116 Speaker 1: going to be such a big hit, i'd written a 398 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:21,076 Speaker 1: better song. Just A song started very simply. It was 399 00:25:21,156 --> 00:25:24,516 Speaker 1: me on piano. I've been to England to visit my 400 00:25:24,556 --> 00:25:27,756 Speaker 1: mother who wasn't feeling too well and she was in hospital. 401 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:31,076 Speaker 1: And during that visit I stood on the steps of 402 00:25:31,316 --> 00:25:36,396 Speaker 1: the Midland Hotel in Manchester. That was the same steps 403 00:25:36,596 --> 00:25:39,196 Speaker 1: that Alan and I had met the Evely brothers in 404 00:25:39,556 --> 00:25:44,236 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two. And I was standing on the steps 405 00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:47,436 Speaker 1: of the Middleland Hotel and I was watching people come 406 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:50,476 Speaker 1: and go. I realized that half of them didn't like 407 00:25:50,996 --> 00:25:56,076 Speaker 1: their job, didn't like their boss, hated work, but had 408 00:25:56,116 --> 00:25:59,276 Speaker 1: to do it, digging graves, doing whatever is they had 409 00:25:59,276 --> 00:26:03,596 Speaker 1: to do. And I realized that why me? Why did 410 00:26:03,636 --> 00:26:07,436 Speaker 1: I leave and become famous when I knew a lot 411 00:26:07,476 --> 00:26:10,516 Speaker 1: of musicians that were better than me, that weren't famous. 412 00:26:10,556 --> 00:26:13,676 Speaker 1: You know, it was really strange. Anyway, I took a 413 00:26:13,836 --> 00:26:16,156 Speaker 1: small vacation. Me and David and Stephen were in a 414 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:19,556 Speaker 1: studio in Los Angeles making a record. We decided to 415 00:26:19,596 --> 00:26:22,036 Speaker 1: take a small break from each other. I went to 416 00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:24,916 Speaker 1: Hawaii and I went to the home of a friend 417 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:28,476 Speaker 1: of mine, acquaintance really named Spider, and he was a 418 00:26:28,556 --> 00:26:32,596 Speaker 1: drug dealer, just marijuana. And I had, you know, about 419 00:26:32,596 --> 00:26:34,836 Speaker 1: an hour and a half, two hours before I had 420 00:26:34,836 --> 00:26:37,636 Speaker 1: to catch a plane back to the studio. And as 421 00:26:37,676 --> 00:26:39,356 Speaker 1: I got up to leave, he said, wait a second, 422 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:41,796 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be some big shot songwriter. I bet 423 00:26:41,796 --> 00:26:44,116 Speaker 1: you can't write a song just before you go. I 424 00:26:44,156 --> 00:26:46,716 Speaker 1: said what he said, I'll bet you can't write a 425 00:26:46,756 --> 00:26:50,596 Speaker 1: song just before you go right now? I said how much? 426 00:26:51,156 --> 00:26:54,836 Speaker 1: He said, five hundred dollars. I said five hundred dollars. 427 00:26:55,116 --> 00:26:57,276 Speaker 1: I sat down and I wrote just a song before 428 00:26:57,276 --> 00:27:01,396 Speaker 1: I go in an hour and twenty minutes. It was 429 00:27:01,436 --> 00:27:06,156 Speaker 1: amazing and in terms of an incredible circle. On my 430 00:27:06,236 --> 00:27:09,996 Speaker 1: last tour, at the end of a show leaving and 431 00:27:10,076 --> 00:27:12,996 Speaker 1: a lady gives me a small envelope, I put it 432 00:27:13,036 --> 00:27:15,196 Speaker 1: in my back pocket and I forgot about that I 433 00:27:15,316 --> 00:27:18,636 Speaker 1: had it there. I'm getting dressed the next morning and 434 00:27:18,716 --> 00:27:21,116 Speaker 1: I realized, I have an envelope that I haven't opened. 435 00:27:21,316 --> 00:27:23,556 Speaker 1: And I opened it up and guess what was inside? 436 00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:27,956 Speaker 1: A check for five hundred dollars from the family of 437 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:30,676 Speaker 1: the kid that made me write the song in the 438 00:27:30,756 --> 00:27:33,916 Speaker 1: first place. They realized that he was a dealer, that 439 00:27:34,036 --> 00:27:36,556 Speaker 1: he probably hadn't paid me, and they were going to 440 00:27:36,676 --> 00:27:40,956 Speaker 1: pay me and they did. Wow, I didn't. I just 441 00:27:41,156 --> 00:27:47,716 Speaker 1: cashed the check, of course. No. It's an incredible story, yeah, amazing. Yeah, 442 00:27:47,756 --> 00:27:50,756 Speaker 1: and what a great song. So that's a song that 443 00:27:50,796 --> 00:27:55,276 Speaker 1: you wrote on a challenge, Yes, a total challenge. Yeah. 444 00:27:55,316 --> 00:27:59,316 Speaker 1: So it shows it can come from anywhere. It doesn't. 445 00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:03,196 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be because it wasn't some lightning 446 00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:05,716 Speaker 1: bolt hit you and this magic song came out. No, 447 00:28:05,916 --> 00:28:08,196 Speaker 1: it was a five hundred dollar bet before you were 448 00:28:08,356 --> 00:28:10,956 Speaker 1: flying off. Yeah, this kid's not going to beat me 449 00:28:11,036 --> 00:28:14,996 Speaker 1: for five hundred dollars, that's for sure. Unbelievable. And he 450 00:28:15,156 --> 00:28:18,996 Speaker 1: sent me the original lyrics, actually the original piece of 451 00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:21,836 Speaker 1: paper that I wrote it on, which I have fantastic. 452 00:28:22,356 --> 00:28:26,956 Speaker 1: Tell me about Nash editions. Okay, I'd gotten a Mac 453 00:28:27,036 --> 00:28:32,076 Speaker 1: computer in nineteen eighty two or something very early. You 454 00:28:32,116 --> 00:28:35,956 Speaker 1: could actually scan things. It was called a thunderscan and 455 00:28:35,996 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 1: it moved across the image and it transferred all the 456 00:28:39,036 --> 00:28:42,956 Speaker 1: information into the computer. And I was getting interesting images 457 00:28:42,996 --> 00:28:46,196 Speaker 1: on the screen. I couldn't get him off the screen 458 00:28:46,756 --> 00:28:50,116 Speaker 1: in a way that satisfied me. I tried photographing them. 459 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:54,316 Speaker 1: I tried inkjet prints, I tried thermal prints, and I 460 00:28:54,316 --> 00:28:58,676 Speaker 1: couldn't get them off the screen. So this friend of mine, 461 00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:02,316 Speaker 1: Charles Wirremberg in San Francisco, who is a scientist, called 462 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:03,876 Speaker 1: me one day and he said, hey, have you have 463 00:29:03,996 --> 00:29:07,716 Speaker 1: you seen this printer that Fuji are putting out? And 464 00:29:07,876 --> 00:29:10,396 Speaker 1: I said no, and I he gave me the name 465 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:13,596 Speaker 1: of the master printer in Los Angeles that was working 466 00:29:13,636 --> 00:29:15,956 Speaker 1: the machine. I went to see it check it out. 467 00:29:16,836 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 1: It was incredible. You know that when you're standing waiting 468 00:29:20,556 --> 00:29:23,476 Speaker 1: to go into the cinema and you see those posters 469 00:29:23,516 --> 00:29:28,476 Speaker 1: for the upcoming shows. Well, this machine was made to 470 00:29:28,596 --> 00:29:33,196 Speaker 1: do that. Cheap paper but great color. So I found 471 00:29:33,196 --> 00:29:35,476 Speaker 1: out someone who was using the machine and went down 472 00:29:35,516 --> 00:29:37,676 Speaker 1: to check it out with my friend Mac, and I 473 00:29:37,716 --> 00:29:41,556 Speaker 1: saw this machine, which looks like a small refrigerator, but 474 00:29:41,636 --> 00:29:43,156 Speaker 1: it has a hood that you lift it up in. 475 00:29:43,236 --> 00:29:46,396 Speaker 1: It has a drum that you attached the paper too, 476 00:29:46,396 --> 00:29:49,756 Speaker 1: and it spins a million miles an hour, and these 477 00:29:49,876 --> 00:29:52,756 Speaker 1: four print heads are spraying ink at it as it's 478 00:29:52,796 --> 00:29:56,876 Speaker 1: going round. That sounds weird. And it's going round at 479 00:29:56,876 --> 00:29:59,796 Speaker 1: twelve miles an hour and you're spraying ink on it 480 00:29:59,876 --> 00:30:03,236 Speaker 1: and it's turning out like this. It was one hundred 481 00:30:03,676 --> 00:30:08,116 Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars for the printer. I bought it immediately, 482 00:30:08,596 --> 00:30:11,436 Speaker 1: and I wanted the machine to do what I wanted 483 00:30:11,436 --> 00:30:14,796 Speaker 1: it to do. I want a thicker paper. I had 484 00:30:14,796 --> 00:30:19,316 Speaker 1: to move the print heads a little further away because 485 00:30:19,356 --> 00:30:21,316 Speaker 1: of the thickness of the paper, so I had to 486 00:30:21,316 --> 00:30:23,956 Speaker 1: avoid the warranty within the first ten minutes. And I 487 00:30:23,996 --> 00:30:27,316 Speaker 1: didn't care because I was forcing this machine that I 488 00:30:27,396 --> 00:30:32,156 Speaker 1: had seen make this photograph looking print. I wanted it 489 00:30:32,196 --> 00:30:37,036 Speaker 1: to do black and white and fantastic stuff purely for me. Yes, 490 00:30:37,436 --> 00:30:40,956 Speaker 1: And then we decided that in eighty nine that we 491 00:30:41,036 --> 00:30:44,076 Speaker 1: would open this up as Nash Editions and be the 492 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:49,396 Speaker 1: first portfolio maker in the world to do black and 493 00:30:49,436 --> 00:30:53,516 Speaker 1: white inkjet prints. And not only that, but we got 494 00:30:53,556 --> 00:30:58,036 Speaker 1: a beautiful medal from the Smithsonian Institution and my first 495 00:30:58,036 --> 00:31:04,156 Speaker 1: printer is in the Smithsonian Museum in the American History Museum. Incredible. 496 00:31:04,676 --> 00:31:06,876 Speaker 1: It was funny. I was a mean sushi in Boston 497 00:31:06,956 --> 00:31:10,676 Speaker 1: once and a couple of people recognize me, and I 498 00:31:10,796 --> 00:31:13,196 Speaker 1: took no notice of that. And as I'm leaving this 499 00:31:13,356 --> 00:31:17,996 Speaker 1: lady shouts out, hey, Graham, and I'm expecting, where's Neil, 500 00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:20,276 Speaker 1: you know, who did you screw last night? And what 501 00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:22,476 Speaker 1: call the sults you have on? And all she said 502 00:31:22,636 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 1: was great, Prince, And I went, wow, Okay, you've made it. 503 00:31:27,956 --> 00:31:32,156 Speaker 1: I've made it. It's another beautiful story where you're making 504 00:31:32,236 --> 00:31:36,076 Speaker 1: something for yourself and it's so good that you open 505 00:31:36,116 --> 00:31:39,236 Speaker 1: it up to the world to participate, because that's how 506 00:31:39,276 --> 00:31:41,156 Speaker 1: good it is. It's the same with all my songs. 507 00:31:41,196 --> 00:31:43,756 Speaker 1: I only write songs for me. I don't write for 508 00:31:43,836 --> 00:31:46,396 Speaker 1: anybody else, just me. But if you like the song 509 00:31:46,396 --> 00:31:48,356 Speaker 1: and you want to do it fantastic. Now it's to 510 00:31:48,436 --> 00:31:51,556 Speaker 1: see us and song. We have to take another quick 511 00:31:51,596 --> 00:31:58,556 Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back with more from Graham Nash. 512 00:31:58,796 --> 00:32:01,476 Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Rick Rubbins conversation with 513 00:32:01,516 --> 00:32:04,636 Speaker 1: Graham Nash. I read a story, I don't know if 514 00:32:04,636 --> 00:32:08,596 Speaker 1: this is true, maybe apocrypha, that there was a cs 515 00:32:08,676 --> 00:32:14,156 Speaker 1: AND reunion in Sauceldo in nineteen seventy four and the 516 00:32:14,196 --> 00:32:17,916 Speaker 1: band ended up breaking up during those sessions over an 517 00:32:18,036 --> 00:32:23,516 Speaker 1: argument over a harmony note choice. Does that ring true? Yep? 518 00:32:24,316 --> 00:32:27,276 Speaker 1: Do you mind talking about it? Yeah, there were two 519 00:32:27,316 --> 00:32:30,836 Speaker 1: times it happened. Once in my house in San Francisco. 520 00:32:32,476 --> 00:32:34,996 Speaker 1: Stephen had this song that I was putting my harmony 521 00:32:35,036 --> 00:32:39,636 Speaker 1: on and he wanted me to sing a minor set 522 00:32:39,676 --> 00:32:45,796 Speaker 1: of changes through a major chord on the track. And 523 00:32:46,716 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 1: I have to admit, I think I'm pretty good at 524 00:32:49,316 --> 00:32:52,676 Speaker 1: what I do as a harmony singer, and my body 525 00:32:52,716 --> 00:32:55,436 Speaker 1: couldn't do it. I could not every time I came 526 00:32:55,436 --> 00:32:57,476 Speaker 1: to the chorus. Whether you wanted me to sing in 527 00:32:58,396 --> 00:33:01,516 Speaker 1: minor thing through a major set of changes, I couldn't. 528 00:33:01,516 --> 00:33:05,676 Speaker 1: My body couldn't do it. And Stephen got so angry 529 00:33:05,956 --> 00:33:09,316 Speaker 1: that he We had just mixed my song win on 530 00:33:09,356 --> 00:33:12,036 Speaker 1: the Water and gotten a master two track of it, 531 00:33:12,356 --> 00:33:17,156 Speaker 1: and he sliced it up with a race of blade. Yeah. 532 00:33:17,196 --> 00:33:19,716 Speaker 1: And another time it happened, and I think it's this 533 00:33:19,836 --> 00:33:23,556 Speaker 1: ALSOLDO one that you're referring to. We were playing a 534 00:33:23,636 --> 00:33:27,916 Speaker 1: song of David's called Homeward through the Haze, very beautiful song, 535 00:33:28,996 --> 00:33:31,796 Speaker 1: and for some reason one of the bass parts was 536 00:33:32,436 --> 00:33:37,196 Speaker 1: not quite right, and we began arguing about whether it 537 00:33:37,276 --> 00:33:40,236 Speaker 1: was right or whether it was not, And all of 538 00:33:40,316 --> 00:33:43,276 Speaker 1: a sudden I look over to where Neil was sitting 539 00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:48,796 Speaker 1: and Neil wasn't there. He just left. He just gone. Amazing. 540 00:33:49,156 --> 00:33:52,836 Speaker 1: The same happened when we were making the record in 541 00:33:53,396 --> 00:33:57,116 Speaker 1: Fort Lauderdale. I'd have been having breakfast with Neil every 542 00:33:57,196 --> 00:33:59,676 Speaker 1: day at the hotel, right, and for some reason, he's 543 00:33:59,716 --> 00:34:01,876 Speaker 1: not there at ten o'clock and I call the front desk, 544 00:34:01,956 --> 00:34:05,556 Speaker 1: I said, as mister Young been around. They said, yeah, 545 00:34:05,596 --> 00:34:09,396 Speaker 1: he left this morning for San Francisco. I said, we're wait, 546 00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:14,236 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of it's Neil amazing. He was gone. 547 00:34:14,876 --> 00:34:20,636 Speaker 1: And that's why not robing a song called Mutiny. It's 548 00:34:20,636 --> 00:34:26,236 Speaker 1: funny in the different examples, it was always a Crosby song. Yeah, Yeah, 549 00:34:27,076 --> 00:34:31,676 Speaker 1: beautiful song though. Yeah, an amazing writer. David was an 550 00:34:31,716 --> 00:34:37,396 Speaker 1: amazing writer. I mean his sense of combining these strange 551 00:34:37,516 --> 00:34:42,036 Speaker 1: guitar tunings with the jazz feel made him a completely 552 00:34:42,156 --> 00:34:46,556 Speaker 1: unique musician. I don't know anybody that writes music like Crosby. 553 00:34:47,476 --> 00:34:50,996 Speaker 1: It's interesting hearing you tell the story of Marrakesh Express 554 00:34:51,436 --> 00:34:58,036 Speaker 1: and it being inspired by the beat poets and essentially 555 00:34:58,116 --> 00:35:02,956 Speaker 1: the drug culture. And while there's a tremendous emphasis on 556 00:35:03,036 --> 00:35:07,236 Speaker 1: drug use in Crosby, Tilson Nash, you're usually viewed as 557 00:35:07,316 --> 00:35:10,796 Speaker 1: the grounded, straight person, or that's the perception in the 558 00:35:10,836 --> 00:35:14,076 Speaker 1: outside world, is that the other two guys are off 559 00:35:14,076 --> 00:35:17,276 Speaker 1: the rails. So it's interesting to hear that you were 560 00:35:17,836 --> 00:35:22,916 Speaker 1: also a participant. Yeah, with Crosby, I mean I tried everything. 561 00:35:22,996 --> 00:35:26,556 Speaker 1: I tried not taking any drugs. I tried taking more 562 00:35:26,636 --> 00:35:31,516 Speaker 1: drugs than he was taking. I tried everything. But you know, 563 00:35:32,036 --> 00:35:35,836 Speaker 1: having been in the Hollies and had all these success 564 00:35:35,916 --> 00:35:39,876 Speaker 1: I was kind of stable and I knew what was 565 00:35:39,916 --> 00:35:43,396 Speaker 1: best for us. And I've always kept the music in 566 00:35:43,436 --> 00:35:47,076 Speaker 1: the forefront of my mind, and I've always been the 567 00:35:47,116 --> 00:35:50,196 Speaker 1: one that says no wait a second. If something's wrong, 568 00:35:50,556 --> 00:35:52,396 Speaker 1: let's figure out a way where we can all win. 569 00:35:52,676 --> 00:35:54,796 Speaker 1: And I've always been that kind of person since I 570 00:35:54,876 --> 00:35:57,716 Speaker 1: was a kid. Tell me about one of my favorite 571 00:35:58,436 --> 00:36:03,036 Speaker 1: vocal performances is not on one of your albums, and 572 00:36:03,116 --> 00:36:06,636 Speaker 1: I only recently found out that it's you singing, and 573 00:36:06,716 --> 00:36:12,196 Speaker 1: that's on Donovan's song Happiness Run. Yes, I love the song, 574 00:36:12,316 --> 00:36:15,996 Speaker 1: and I used that outro as a reference for musicians 575 00:36:16,076 --> 00:36:19,236 Speaker 1: all the time, talking about what interesting arrangements you could 576 00:36:19,236 --> 00:36:21,996 Speaker 1: do vocally. Don't think of it just as the lead voice. Right, 577 00:36:22,196 --> 00:36:25,716 Speaker 1: here's an example of the vocals are the whole thing 578 00:36:25,956 --> 00:36:29,356 Speaker 1: and the relationship between the different vocals. Tell me how 579 00:36:29,396 --> 00:36:32,516 Speaker 1: that came about and the writing of it and everything 580 00:36:32,516 --> 00:36:35,956 Speaker 1: about it. Donovan was the man that taught me how 581 00:36:35,996 --> 00:36:39,316 Speaker 1: to play finger pick a guitar. I couldn't do it 582 00:36:39,356 --> 00:36:41,356 Speaker 1: before he showed me how to do it. And he 583 00:36:41,396 --> 00:36:43,596 Speaker 1: was a big fan of mine, and he knew that 584 00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:48,236 Speaker 1: the Hollies were not happening in my mind anyway. He 585 00:36:48,316 --> 00:36:51,636 Speaker 1: played me this song, Happiness Runs, and I realized that 586 00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:55,716 Speaker 1: it was a perfect example of a round meaning you 587 00:36:55,756 --> 00:36:58,876 Speaker 1: could go happiness runs in a happiness runs in all 588 00:36:58,916 --> 00:37:02,116 Speaker 1: happiness runs. You know you can make a round of it, yes, 589 00:37:02,156 --> 00:37:04,756 Speaker 1: like row row row your boat, exact famous round that 590 00:37:04,796 --> 00:37:07,916 Speaker 1: most people knew, right, And yeah, it was very easy 591 00:37:07,956 --> 00:37:11,996 Speaker 1: to do. We did it in ten minutes, really easy 592 00:37:12,196 --> 00:37:15,556 Speaker 1: because it was the song was there. We just had 593 00:37:15,596 --> 00:37:18,436 Speaker 1: to make it sound more interesting than it was. It's 594 00:37:18,596 --> 00:37:21,876 Speaker 1: great and that the interaction of the vocals at the 595 00:37:21,956 --> 00:37:26,396 Speaker 1: end make the whole thing. I absolutely love it great. Oh, 596 00:37:26,436 --> 00:37:30,156 Speaker 1: this is interesting. I've seen footage of Crosby Stills in 597 00:37:30,236 --> 00:37:34,756 Speaker 1: Nash playing at Esselyn in Big Sir, and Esselyn was 598 00:37:34,916 --> 00:37:38,796 Speaker 1: sort of a hippie capital and the birth of the 599 00:37:38,836 --> 00:37:41,436 Speaker 1: Human Potential movement took place there. So it was forward 600 00:37:41,516 --> 00:37:46,476 Speaker 1: thinking place, lots of young people, naked, hot springs. Yes, 601 00:37:46,796 --> 00:37:52,556 Speaker 1: And interestingly, Crosby, Sials and Nash show up with these 602 00:37:52,636 --> 00:37:57,356 Speaker 1: D forty five very expensive guitar, the most expensive guitar 603 00:37:57,436 --> 00:38:02,156 Speaker 1: you could buy from Martin and wearing fur coats into 604 00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:10,036 Speaker 1: this piece and love hippie world. And it's a wild juxtaposition. 605 00:38:10,636 --> 00:38:12,636 Speaker 1: And just wanted to ask you what do you remember 606 00:38:12,676 --> 00:38:16,556 Speaker 1: about that? Did thought go into it? Tell me everything? 607 00:38:17,396 --> 00:38:21,796 Speaker 1: Esseelin was exactly how you described, particularly the hot tubs 608 00:38:22,116 --> 00:38:26,596 Speaker 1: and the naked Ladies. Joanie was there at that time, 609 00:38:26,676 --> 00:38:30,156 Speaker 1: and she had a song that she used to end 610 00:38:30,476 --> 00:38:34,916 Speaker 1: her shows with called get Together, and we would casually 611 00:38:34,916 --> 00:38:37,236 Speaker 1: get up there and sing. And she didn't mind, you know, 612 00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: at all, because she knew how good we were, and 613 00:38:40,476 --> 00:38:43,076 Speaker 1: so if we got up there to sing, it was 614 00:38:43,116 --> 00:38:44,756 Speaker 1: going to be okay. And it was like a gang 615 00:38:44,876 --> 00:38:47,436 Speaker 1: sing at the end, you know. But what I remember 616 00:38:47,476 --> 00:38:50,556 Speaker 1: most about Esseelin is that Johnie and I were growing 617 00:38:50,916 --> 00:38:54,196 Speaker 1: more apart by the minute. And there's a photograph of 618 00:38:54,236 --> 00:38:58,516 Speaker 1: me and Joanie explaining each other to each other that 619 00:38:58,596 --> 00:39:01,276 Speaker 1: somebody took. That is a perfect example of what it 620 00:39:01,396 --> 00:39:04,716 Speaker 1: was that I was feeling during that Eselent thing because 621 00:39:05,516 --> 00:39:11,236 Speaker 1: Johnie and I were breaking up. Basically, tell me about 622 00:39:11,356 --> 00:39:15,956 Speaker 1: David Blue. It's all over now. David Blue was a 623 00:39:16,716 --> 00:39:20,356 Speaker 1: fine songwriter in New York City at the same time 624 00:39:20,396 --> 00:39:25,556 Speaker 1: that Dylan was upcoming, David Blue was upcoming. I liked 625 00:39:25,596 --> 00:39:28,996 Speaker 1: his songs. I brought him to my studio in San 626 00:39:29,036 --> 00:39:32,276 Speaker 1: Francisco and recorded a great album with him called Nice 627 00:39:32,316 --> 00:39:35,516 Speaker 1: Baby in the Angel. In my book of photographs that 628 00:39:35,556 --> 00:39:38,276 Speaker 1: I put out recently, there's a photograph of David Blue 629 00:39:38,276 --> 00:39:41,396 Speaker 1: and he's smoking a cigarette but he has a cigarette 630 00:39:41,396 --> 00:39:45,156 Speaker 1: in each hand. And that was David Blue. He was 631 00:39:45,196 --> 00:39:48,276 Speaker 1: a man that felt that he didn't get enough dues 632 00:39:49,036 --> 00:39:52,676 Speaker 1: because this other guy, Bob Dylan, was taking most of 633 00:39:52,716 --> 00:39:56,476 Speaker 1: the headlines, even though David felt that he was already. 634 00:39:57,676 --> 00:40:02,436 Speaker 1: Maybe Dylan took his name and it's all over now, 635 00:40:02,876 --> 00:40:07,556 Speaker 1: baby Blue. You know who knows. But David David was 636 00:40:07,596 --> 00:40:11,476 Speaker 1: a nice man. Do you know anything about Leonard Khne's 637 00:40:11,516 --> 00:40:17,716 Speaker 1: relationship with David Blue? No, interesting that Leonard Khne always 638 00:40:17,836 --> 00:40:24,236 Speaker 1: had a feeling the way that David Blue felt as 639 00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:30,516 Speaker 1: it related to Bob. Leonard had some feeling that the 640 00:40:30,676 --> 00:40:35,156 Speaker 1: relationship between him and David Blue, like maybe why isn't 641 00:40:35,156 --> 00:40:37,316 Speaker 1: it David Blue? And why is it me? You know, 642 00:40:37,356 --> 00:40:41,996 Speaker 1: like like he he didn't understand there was the opposite 643 00:40:42,036 --> 00:40:44,596 Speaker 1: side of the David Blue story of why do I 644 00:40:44,716 --> 00:40:51,796 Speaker 1: have the success versus David Blue? Like almost like imposter syndrome. Yeah, 645 00:40:51,836 --> 00:40:55,356 Speaker 1: And then David was very cognizant of that. He understood 646 00:40:56,196 --> 00:41:00,276 Speaker 1: that he was being completely shadowed. But he was a 647 00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:04,556 Speaker 1: decent songwriter and I enjoyed that album that I made 648 00:41:04,596 --> 00:41:07,876 Speaker 1: with him, Beautiful. In one of the stories I read 649 00:41:07,876 --> 00:41:12,956 Speaker 1: about Crosbie Silson, Nash reunion attempts. It happened in the 650 00:41:13,036 --> 00:41:17,076 Speaker 1: famous studio in Miami. Oh yeah, Criteria, Yeah, Criteria. What 651 00:41:17,756 --> 00:41:21,596 Speaker 1: was it about Criteria in the seventies that drew so 652 00:41:21,636 --> 00:41:26,276 Speaker 1: many artists. First of all, it's a great studio. There's 653 00:41:26,316 --> 00:41:29,356 Speaker 1: a great sound in the studio, and that's why a 654 00:41:29,356 --> 00:41:32,076 Speaker 1: lot of artists got there. But also there were two 655 00:41:32,156 --> 00:41:35,916 Speaker 1: ladies that provided a service that was great. You could 656 00:41:35,916 --> 00:41:38,916 Speaker 1: rent a house and they would do all the cooking 657 00:41:39,076 --> 00:41:41,356 Speaker 1: and they would clean all the beds and do all 658 00:41:41,436 --> 00:41:44,476 Speaker 1: that stuff. And that's exactly what we did. That's what 659 00:41:44,636 --> 00:41:48,316 Speaker 1: Eric had done previously one on his album. And so 660 00:41:48,436 --> 00:41:53,796 Speaker 1: that combination of not being in Hollywood and being in 661 00:41:53,836 --> 00:41:56,716 Speaker 1: a sunny being in a sunny place with the same 662 00:41:56,796 --> 00:42:00,636 Speaker 1: kind of freedoms and Criteria had a great sound and 663 00:42:01,236 --> 00:42:04,196 Speaker 1: we took advantage of it. For sure. Beautiful because I 664 00:42:04,236 --> 00:42:07,316 Speaker 1: always wondered because Miami was not really a hot spot 665 00:42:07,356 --> 00:42:10,876 Speaker 1: at that point in time, but so many great artists 666 00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:13,556 Speaker 1: all were traveling there and I never really knew what 667 00:42:13,596 --> 00:42:15,876 Speaker 1: the draw was. But that's interesting that there was like 668 00:42:15,916 --> 00:42:20,476 Speaker 1: a live in situation, yes, that you could go off 669 00:42:20,516 --> 00:42:22,396 Speaker 1: and make a record and everything would be taken care 670 00:42:22,436 --> 00:42:25,956 Speaker 1: of besides you being in the studio making the music right. 671 00:42:26,076 --> 00:42:27,716 Speaker 1: And as you say, it was out of the way. 672 00:42:27,876 --> 00:42:30,596 Speaker 1: It wasn't Hollywood. Yeah, you know, it wasn't New York. 673 00:42:30,756 --> 00:42:33,276 Speaker 1: It was completely out of the way in terms of 674 00:42:34,396 --> 00:42:38,316 Speaker 1: why Miami. But it was the combination of a sound 675 00:42:38,356 --> 00:42:42,476 Speaker 1: of the studio itself and the availability of being able 676 00:42:42,516 --> 00:42:44,996 Speaker 1: to rent a house away. You didn't have to think. 677 00:42:45,436 --> 00:42:49,796 Speaker 1: Tell me about Judy sil Judy was a very interesting woman. 678 00:42:50,636 --> 00:42:54,276 Speaker 1: I think she was a brilliant composer. I think that 679 00:42:55,276 --> 00:43:00,476 Speaker 1: she wasn't pretty enough to be a Joni Mitchell kind 680 00:43:00,516 --> 00:43:05,996 Speaker 1: of long blonde hair, folksinging kind of thing. She opened 681 00:43:06,196 --> 00:43:08,756 Speaker 1: up on a tour that David and I did for 682 00:43:08,756 --> 00:43:11,916 Speaker 1: about two or three weeks. She would often drive in 683 00:43:11,996 --> 00:43:16,436 Speaker 1: the car with David and I. She was darkly funny, 684 00:43:16,596 --> 00:43:19,356 Speaker 1: and the more she told us about her life, the 685 00:43:19,396 --> 00:43:22,276 Speaker 1: more amazing she got. She told us she used to 686 00:43:22,476 --> 00:43:25,356 Speaker 1: you know, she was a hooker at one point, but 687 00:43:25,836 --> 00:43:31,716 Speaker 1: her love of music was undeniable, and she loved a 688 00:43:31,756 --> 00:43:33,996 Speaker 1: particular guitar that I had. It was a Martin D 689 00:43:34,116 --> 00:43:36,596 Speaker 1: twenty eight, and at the end of the tour I 690 00:43:36,636 --> 00:43:42,156 Speaker 1: gave it to her. But Judy was a really interesting woman, 691 00:43:42,596 --> 00:43:44,796 Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of people I'm now 692 00:43:44,876 --> 00:43:49,116 Speaker 1: being turned onto her music. I recorded a song with 693 00:43:49,116 --> 00:43:52,476 Speaker 1: her called Jesus was a Crossmaker. I thought that that 694 00:43:52,956 --> 00:43:56,036 Speaker 1: might be a radio hit. But that's the only track 695 00:43:56,116 --> 00:43:58,756 Speaker 1: that I ever produced for Judy. But it was a 696 00:43:58,436 --> 00:44:03,356 Speaker 1: good creative experience. Yes, very much so. I only got 697 00:44:03,356 --> 00:44:07,796 Speaker 1: turned onto her recently and find the music very, very beautiful. Yes, 698 00:44:08,076 --> 00:44:13,076 Speaker 1: she was a I'm profound songwriter. How do you think 699 00:44:13,836 --> 00:44:21,196 Speaker 1: the last chapter of your father's life impacted your choices 700 00:44:21,356 --> 00:44:25,956 Speaker 1: going forward in life? A great deal. My father went 701 00:44:25,996 --> 00:44:27,956 Speaker 1: to jail for about a year for a camera that 702 00:44:28,036 --> 00:44:29,636 Speaker 1: he had bought from a friend of his at work, 703 00:44:29,796 --> 00:44:31,756 Speaker 1: and the police came to the door and wanting to 704 00:44:31,756 --> 00:44:33,916 Speaker 1: know who it was, and sold it to him. My 705 00:44:33,956 --> 00:44:36,676 Speaker 1: father wouldn't tell them, and he ended up in a 706 00:44:36,756 --> 00:44:40,036 Speaker 1: jail for a year, and he died at forty six. 707 00:44:40,876 --> 00:44:44,396 Speaker 1: It affects my life in the following way. I always 708 00:44:44,716 --> 00:44:49,836 Speaker 1: cheer for the underdog. I'm always championing the team that's 709 00:44:49,956 --> 00:44:53,436 Speaker 1: not supposed to win. And a very interesting thing happened 710 00:44:53,436 --> 00:44:56,196 Speaker 1: to me. I'd written a song called the Prison Song, 711 00:44:56,876 --> 00:45:00,316 Speaker 1: and the first verses about my father, I was in 712 00:45:00,636 --> 00:45:04,796 Speaker 1: Granada Television in Manchester. I was doing a show and 713 00:45:04,956 --> 00:45:09,636 Speaker 1: I was singing that song. Also on the show tape 714 00:45:10,356 --> 00:45:13,636 Speaker 1: was the judge that sentenced my father to prison. You 715 00:45:13,796 --> 00:45:18,676 Speaker 1: must believe that I was in a very strange state 716 00:45:18,716 --> 00:45:24,236 Speaker 1: of mind. Nobody else knew except me. Nobody knew. I 717 00:45:24,276 --> 00:45:26,996 Speaker 1: don't even know how to process it. What tell me? 718 00:45:29,156 --> 00:45:31,636 Speaker 1: Did you want to leave? Did you want Yeah? I 719 00:45:32,236 --> 00:45:35,236 Speaker 1: wanted to get to him and you know, tell him 720 00:45:35,236 --> 00:45:38,356 Speaker 1: off for doing that. I mean, I wrote every ridiculous 721 00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:40,716 Speaker 1: thing to even think of doing. But he was on 722 00:45:40,756 --> 00:45:43,916 Speaker 1: tape and he wasn't available for me to converse with him. 723 00:45:44,156 --> 00:45:48,116 Speaker 1: But what a strange event, me singing the song about 724 00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:51,116 Speaker 1: my father in prison with the judge that put him 725 00:45:51,156 --> 00:45:55,276 Speaker 1: in prison. Unbelievable. Did you grow up in Manchester or Blackpool? 726 00:45:55,796 --> 00:46:00,476 Speaker 1: I was born in Blackpool. I lived I lived in Salford, 727 00:46:00,556 --> 00:46:03,996 Speaker 1: which was one of the slums of England, which is 728 00:46:04,036 --> 00:46:07,996 Speaker 1: a suburb of Manchester. But during the World War Two, 729 00:46:08,596 --> 00:46:12,436 Speaker 1: they would evacuate all the pregnant ladies outside the bombing 730 00:46:12,476 --> 00:46:15,796 Speaker 1: area to have their children in peace. And that's that's 731 00:46:15,836 --> 00:46:18,396 Speaker 1: why I ended up being born in Blackpool, which I 732 00:46:18,756 --> 00:46:22,876 Speaker 1: never lived there. I was just born there. I actually, 733 00:46:22,956 --> 00:46:26,676 Speaker 1: quite a few years ago, took two of my sons 734 00:46:27,436 --> 00:46:31,356 Speaker 1: into that room and I ended up. I started. I 735 00:46:31,436 --> 00:46:35,236 Speaker 1: went into the hotel, which is on the front in Blackpool, 736 00:46:35,436 --> 00:46:38,516 Speaker 1: and I looked at the guy that was in the 737 00:46:38,596 --> 00:46:41,716 Speaker 1: front desk and I said, I have a really strange question. 738 00:46:42,076 --> 00:46:45,316 Speaker 1: He said, it's you go around, Dane. It's down right 739 00:46:45,356 --> 00:46:49,196 Speaker 1: down the stairs. I said, how did you know that? 740 00:46:49,356 --> 00:46:52,036 Speaker 1: He said, listen, a lot of you've come here and 741 00:46:52,196 --> 00:46:54,716 Speaker 1: you wanted anyway. He pointed me to the room and 742 00:46:54,756 --> 00:46:57,956 Speaker 1: there was the room. And I'm breathing in the room 743 00:46:58,076 --> 00:47:01,836 Speaker 1: in which I took my first breath. Wow, and maybe 744 00:47:01,876 --> 00:47:07,796 Speaker 1: see so cool? I know my life is full of this. Yeah, magic, 745 00:47:08,276 --> 00:47:11,916 Speaker 1: We're black, we are blessed, indeed we are. We'll tell 746 00:47:11,956 --> 00:47:13,436 Speaker 1: me about living in New York. Is this the first 747 00:47:13,436 --> 00:47:16,676 Speaker 1: time you've ever lived in New York? Yes? I'd been 748 00:47:16,716 --> 00:47:19,316 Speaker 1: to New York many times, you know, sometimes for a 749 00:47:19,356 --> 00:47:21,636 Speaker 1: couple of days, sometimes for a couple of weeks. And 750 00:47:21,716 --> 00:47:24,596 Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to get out of here. What changed? 751 00:47:25,556 --> 00:47:30,476 Speaker 1: What changed is I divorced my wife, Susan, after thirty 752 00:47:30,516 --> 00:47:33,636 Speaker 1: seven years of marriage. We were not in love. It 753 00:47:33,716 --> 00:47:37,556 Speaker 1: was totally over we divorced. I'm playing a show with 754 00:47:39,036 --> 00:47:42,596 Speaker 1: David and Stephen at the Beacon here in New York City, 755 00:47:43,596 --> 00:47:48,596 Speaker 1: and Amy and I shook hands, and I believe at 756 00:47:48,636 --> 00:47:52,196 Speaker 1: that point I knew what I needed to do. I 757 00:47:52,276 --> 00:47:56,596 Speaker 1: needed to find out more about this woman, find out 758 00:47:57,356 --> 00:48:00,436 Speaker 1: who she is, what she does, and every question. And 759 00:48:00,556 --> 00:48:05,676 Speaker 1: I asked myself, she answered in total brilliant. She's a 760 00:48:05,716 --> 00:48:12,276 Speaker 1: brilliant artist. And I wish now that I had been 761 00:48:12,316 --> 00:48:16,156 Speaker 1: strong enough to realize earlier that my marriage to Susan 762 00:48:16,276 --> 00:48:18,316 Speaker 1: was over and I should have been living in New 763 00:48:18,436 --> 00:48:22,196 Speaker 1: York for twenty years. And this is an incredible city. 764 00:48:22,676 --> 00:48:25,036 Speaker 1: I've said it before, but I one of the things 765 00:48:25,036 --> 00:48:28,996 Speaker 1: that I love about it is hearing five different accents 766 00:48:29,036 --> 00:48:31,436 Speaker 1: on the way to get a cup of coffee, you know, 767 00:48:31,516 --> 00:48:35,436 Speaker 1: and then when you add the galleries, and you know, 768 00:48:35,636 --> 00:48:38,196 Speaker 1: this is a fantastic city. And I wish I'd have 769 00:48:38,196 --> 00:48:40,476 Speaker 1: been here for many years, but I have been here 770 00:48:40,516 --> 00:48:44,436 Speaker 1: for at least eight now. Amazing, amazing and beautiful that 771 00:48:44,476 --> 00:48:47,356 Speaker 1: you got to meet your partner after all these years, 772 00:48:47,356 --> 00:48:50,756 Speaker 1: and after being in an unhappy situation for a long time, 773 00:48:51,716 --> 00:48:55,236 Speaker 1: It's again a blessing. Don't forget the opening line of 774 00:48:55,236 --> 00:48:58,316 Speaker 1: my album, I used to think that I could never 775 00:48:58,396 --> 00:49:03,156 Speaker 1: love again, but I did. I found it again. Don't 776 00:49:03,236 --> 00:49:07,236 Speaker 1: screw it up. I'm trying my best. I really, I 777 00:49:07,276 --> 00:49:09,876 Speaker 1: mean I am trying my best. I mean living with 778 00:49:09,996 --> 00:49:13,956 Speaker 1: some with another person is difficult. It's full of compromises. 779 00:49:14,156 --> 00:49:18,516 Speaker 1: But I'm learning every day and she's teaching me everything 780 00:49:18,556 --> 00:49:22,716 Speaker 1: that I thought I knew. Beautiful, congratulations, Thank you, can't 781 00:49:22,716 --> 00:49:24,756 Speaker 1: wait for the new album. Thank you so much for 782 00:49:24,836 --> 00:49:27,276 Speaker 1: doing this. I loved talking to you, love seeing you, 783 00:49:27,876 --> 00:49:29,836 Speaker 1: and can't wait till we get to hug in person. 784 00:49:30,116 --> 00:49:36,236 Speaker 1: Thank you, Rich, thank you, You're welcome kid. Thanks again 785 00:49:36,276 --> 00:49:39,476 Speaker 1: to Graham Nash for sharing stories from his magical life 786 00:49:39,516 --> 00:49:43,116 Speaker 1: with us. His new album Now is out in May. 787 00:49:43,596 --> 00:49:45,836 Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can hear all of our favorite Crosby, 788 00:49:45,916 --> 00:49:49,436 Speaker 1: Stills and Nash and sometimes Why songs at Broken Record 789 00:49:49,436 --> 00:49:53,236 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel 790 00:49:53,276 --> 00:49:56,636 Speaker 1: at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We can 791 00:49:56,676 --> 00:49:59,596 Speaker 1: find all of our new episodes. You can follow us 792 00:49:59,596 --> 00:50:03,236 Speaker 1: on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with 793 00:50:03,316 --> 00:50:06,636 Speaker 1: help from me A Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Taliday, and 794 00:50:06,876 --> 00:50:11,156 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler. Our editor is so Ukraine. Broken Record is 795 00:50:11,156 --> 00:50:13,956 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show 796 00:50:13,996 --> 00:50:18,036 Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 797 00:50:18,076 --> 00:50:21,356 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and 798 00:50:21,476 --> 00:50:25,196 Speaker 1: uninterrupted actually listening for four ninety nine a month. Look 799 00:50:25,236 --> 00:50:28,516 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you 800 00:50:28,596 --> 00:50:30,996 Speaker 1: like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review 801 00:50:31,076 --> 00:50:34,396 Speaker 1: us on your podcast. A theme musics by Kenny Beats. 802 00:50:34,916 --> 00:50:35,996 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.