Speaker 1: On the cast. The questions asked if movies have women
Speaker 1: and them all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or
Speaker 1: do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and Beast
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel cast.
Speaker 2: Do do do do Do?
Speaker 3: Do do do do?
Speaker 4: Oh no, I'm gay and I've had a heart attack.
Speaker 2: Oh no, And then oh and then there's a funeral.
Speaker 2: What's the funeral music?
Speaker 4: Oh god, I don't know if there's a go to funeral.
Speaker 5: I guess there isn't. I was going to say do
Speaker 5: do do do do do do, but I don't think
Speaker 5: people like people don't really do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of reminded me of the Darth Vader March,
Speaker 2: like the Imperial March.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that felt like, yeah, maybe if someone shitty died,
Speaker 4: I want that to play at my funeral. Something I
Speaker 4: like about funerals now, something I appreciate about the contemporary
Speaker 4: a funeral is that a lot of people just plug
Speaker 4: their phone in. That's what we did at my dad's funeral.
Speaker 4: We made like a communal playlist of music he liked.
Speaker 4: I plugged it in.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just like, you just play the music
Speaker 4: that the person liked. It makes way more sense than
Speaker 4: like crying music. You know, yeah, play the sex pistols
Speaker 4: have some fun totally. Anyways, I don't they play more
Speaker 4: generic music at ED. I think, you know, probably in
Speaker 4: the interest of budget. They're playing kind of in the movie.
Speaker 4: You mean, hey, yes, they're playing low budget, royalty free music.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Exactly, because the movie is four Weddings in a Funeral.
Speaker 2: The podcast is the Bechdel Cast. Totally Caitlin Durante, who
Speaker 2: are you, Jamie?
Speaker 4: I truly am like having a like delayed brain. Here's
Speaker 4: what happened. I had a Celsius at six am, and
Speaker 4: then I started to crash at like nine thirty, and
Speaker 4: I was like, I have to I have to maintain
Speaker 4: my buzz. So I just got a gigantic coffee. I'm
Speaker 4: Jamie Loftus and this is the Bexel Cast. The movie
Speaker 4: where we take a look at your favorite the podcast
Speaker 4: where we take the oh no, the podcast where we
Speaker 4: take a look at your favorite movie is using from
Speaker 4: an intersectional feminist, using the Bexel test as a jumping
Speaker 4: off point for discussion. All of those words felt.
Speaker 5: New in my mouth, like I never said, are you okay?
Speaker 5: Something is going on.
Speaker 4: It's gonna be one podcast and one funeral.
Speaker 5: Caitleb. What's the Bechtyl test? What the hell is it?
Speaker 2: I'll tell I'll tell you. It is a media metric
Speaker 2: created by close friend of the show, Alison Bechdel, first
Speaker 2: appearing in her comic collection Dicks to Watch out For
Speaker 2: in the eighties, has since been kind of adapted to
Speaker 2: a more like mainstream media metric that has many different
Speaker 2: versions of it. The one that we use is this,
Speaker 2: do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do
Speaker 2: they speak to each other? And is there conversation about
Speaker 2: something other than a man? And then we particularly like
Speaker 2: it when it's a narratively relevant, meaningful conversation and not
Speaker 2: dialogue that could be cut out of the movie and
Speaker 2: nothing would really change, right, And we're and we'll apply
Speaker 2: it to four weddings in a funeral today. Did I
Speaker 2: pay attention if it passes the Bechdel Test or not?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 4: Why would you say that at the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 2: Well, look, this is a chaos episode. I can feel it.
Speaker 2: We're just we're loose.
Speaker 4: I actually I was just googling if it passed, and
Speaker 4: the phrase I googled was Bechtel test, four sisters and
Speaker 4: a wedding. I'm not sure what's going on today? Okay, amazing, Okay, okay,
Speaker 4: nothing is working. Let's just let's bring our guests in here.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe she'll help stabilize us. Maybe it'll be even
Speaker 2: more chaotic.
Speaker 4: See, she's living in the night time, we're living in
Speaker 4: the day.
Speaker 2: So true because she comes to us from across a sea.
Speaker 2: She is a comedian. You can check out her show
Speaker 2: The Last Funny Woman at Edinburgh Fringe this year in August.
Speaker 2: And you remember her from our episode on angus, thongs
Speaker 2: and perfect snogging. It's Kate Cheka.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, thank you.
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be back.
Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you. So you've brought us four
Speaker 2: weddings in a funeral?
Speaker 3: Tell us I did? I was excuse me of bringing it?
Speaker 2: Well you did? Yeah, Well I do feel that wayship.
Speaker 2: What's your relationship with this movie?
Speaker 3: My relationship with it? It was one of those ones
Speaker 3: I saw as a child. I guess Richard Curtis is
Speaker 3: like one of those British things, and so are Richard Curtis.
Speaker 3: Movie is one of his British things. And you've seen
Speaker 3: it as a child, and you've been raised with it,
Speaker 3: and it just feels like a part of your culture.
Speaker 3: I think is the thing. And I've had issues with
Speaker 3: other ones of his films, like Love Actually, which I'm
Speaker 3: sure you've done right, one.
Speaker 4: Of our very Yeah, I think we're due for a
Speaker 4: real look maybe this holiday season. We didn't, but also
Speaker 4: we didn't. We didn't care for it the first. Richard
Speaker 4: Curtis has not fair age particularly well on our show.
Speaker 3: No, he doesn't age well usually. And I and Love Actually,
Speaker 3: I thought Love Actually was one of my favorite films.
Speaker 3: I was under the impression. And then on the weekend
Speaker 3: before Christmas last Christmas, I woke up in this beautiful
Speaker 3: two bedroom flat in North London, Islington with this man there.
Speaker 3: He's not that important, but I was. It was a
Speaker 3: hook up. But then I ended up staying the weekend
Speaker 3: in his beautiful flat because he had such a great flight.
Speaker 3: He had like a claw foot bath and a fireplace,
Speaker 3: and he kept saying things that I enjoyed, like there's
Speaker 3: bubbly wine in the fridge. Left over from the Christmas party.
Speaker 3: Do you want me to get it? I was like yes,
Speaker 3: and like, do you want quack emole? And I was like, yeah, great,
Speaker 3: I love it this house. And so I stayed there
Speaker 3: at the house, not for him but for the beautiful house.
Speaker 3: And we watched Love Actually and ate homemade Quackamoley.
Speaker 5: That does sound nice, right.
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, it's a Christmas romance. And then yeah,
Speaker 3: I watched this film and I was like, this film
Speaker 3: is awful. Did everyone know this because I hadn't seen it?
Speaker 2: Okay, so long we were so we didn't.
Speaker 5: We didn't know which this was gonna go.
Speaker 2: We honestly didn't know.
Speaker 3: It was like, this film's horrible, Like it's a treatment
Speaker 3: of women of people of color. I was like, this
Speaker 3: is a bad film and it's so odd because I
Speaker 3: was under the impression it was one of my favorite films.
Speaker 2: But no, I think a lot of us have had
Speaker 2: that journey with many such cases. But how do you
Speaker 2: feel about for weddings in a funeral?
Speaker 3: Now, I'd watched it quite recently and I didn't feel
Speaker 3: the same visceral. This is bad. But if we're going
Speaker 3: to look at it through a feminist intersexual lens. I
Speaker 3: don't think it does very good, but I awso. But
Speaker 3: there's somehow with this film, and I don't know why,
Speaker 3: I'm more nostalgic.
Speaker 5: Towards it interesting.
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you think maybe because it's just a bit older,
Speaker 2: like it was with you for a longer time, an
Speaker 2: earlier age.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's something about the two thousand line,
Speaker 3: the year two thousand, where there's like, you can forgive
Speaker 3: things that happened in the twentieth century. It was a
Speaker 3: different you forgive them if they happened in the twenty
Speaker 3: it was a different century.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Where is the twenty first century despite the handful of
Speaker 3: years between these films, is a different century and by
Speaker 3: the two thousands, we needed.
Speaker 2: To know a different millennium.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I guess maybe it's that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 4: I felt like there's a version of Hugh Grant's face.
Speaker 2: Hugh Grant in.
Speaker 4: His thirties is like a completely different vibe to contemporary
Speaker 4: hugrit They're all great, but I feel like, yes, Hugh Grant,
Speaker 4: for me, age is like a fine wine. You know,
Speaker 4: we have to get through four weddings and a funeral
Speaker 4: to get to Paddington.
Speaker 5: Too kind of thing.
Speaker 4: Tell me about it performance, as Caitlin I said it before,
Speaker 4: a generational performance. But there's also I don't know, I'm curious, Kitlyn,
Speaker 4: what's your history with this movie?
Speaker 2: Well? I saw it for the first time in the
Speaker 2: Great Caitlin Movie Binge of two thousand and five. I
Speaker 2: did not care for it at the time. I watched
Speaker 2: it again twice for a podcast that I guessed it
Speaker 2: on in twenty twenty one called five hundred Greatest Films
Speaker 2: podcast hosted by my buds Hector and Keller. Oh yes,
Speaker 2: I find on that as well.
Speaker 5: I forget what movie I covered.
Speaker 2: Who can say, but I really waxed poetic on that
Speaker 2: episode about how much I deeply hate this movie. Wow.
Speaker 4: You disliking this movie went back so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a long history of really loathing.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I thought maybe, I was like, look, it's been
Speaker 2: five years since then, maybe I'll find something appealing about it.
Speaker 2: And there are little nuggets of things that I don't hate,
Speaker 2: and we'll talk about them. But by and large, this
Speaker 2: movie so much. So sorry, in advance to all of
Speaker 2: our listeners love this movie. I am going to be
Speaker 2: taking a massive dump on.
Speaker 4: It, you know, and normally when Caitlin is taking a
Speaker 4: massive dump, I tend to fall somewhere. I tend to
Speaker 4: fall somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 5: However, I will be.
Speaker 4: Joining you today and jump, I really like, for reasons
Speaker 4: that have to do with our podcasts and reasons that don't.
Speaker 4: The barrier gaze in Four Weddings and a Funeral is
Speaker 4: so egregious and pisses me right off.
Speaker 5: Right from the jump.
Speaker 4: I was like, if I literally wrote out at the beginning,
Speaker 4: if one of our only identifiably queer characters is.
Speaker 5: The funeral, I'm gonna blow my house up.
Speaker 3: And I think so it.
Speaker 5: Was, and so it was.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think, honestly, for me, i'd never seen
Speaker 4: this movie before. I mix it up with another movie,
Speaker 4: I forget what it is. And I know that there
Speaker 4: was a remake of this movie that Kate.
Speaker 2: Mindy Kahaling did a series in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4: I think, Okay, I did not watch that either, But yeah,
Speaker 4: I had never seen it before, and I honestly like,
Speaker 4: I just thought it was boring. Honestly, that was I
Speaker 4: think the movie's worst crime for me is I was
Speaker 4: bored and I did like the only characters.
Speaker 5: I the only character I like died, so you know.
Speaker 2: So I would say I did not like it.
Speaker 4: And also even given the period, because I can Kate,
Speaker 4: I totally agree, Like there are certain comedies and rom
Speaker 4: coms that you're like, you know, it's it's worth the
Speaker 4: monkey paw situation that you put yourself into by watching it.
Speaker 4: But for and this movie for me on every level,
Speaker 4: there are better Hugh Grant movies in the nineties to watch.
Speaker 4: There are better Richard Curtis movies in the nineties to watch,
Speaker 4: like it just I can't do it. I still haven't
Speaker 4: seen Nodding Hill. But of the other Richard Curtis movies
Speaker 4: we've covered on the pod, I think my favorite is
Speaker 4: MoMA me I Here We Go Again, which she is
Speaker 4: a credited writer on, so there's.
Speaker 2: A story by credit. I think. Yeah. His his filmography
Speaker 2: is wild because.
Speaker 4: I randomly Warhorse, he wrote war Horse that and then
Speaker 4: Bizarre Notting Hill Love actually Bridgie Jones Diary and Bridgide
Speaker 4: Jones too. He is also deep into Rowan Atkinson. Oh
Speaker 4: he is Mester, He's mister well, he's well, he's not
Speaker 4: mister Yeah, he's mister mister Bean.
Speaker 5: We got there.
Speaker 2: Yes, also Rowan Atkinson.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, every time I see Ron Atkinson, I
Speaker 4: think of the James A. Caster Special, my favorite story
Speaker 4: ever about how James Acaster's fiance dumped him for mister
Speaker 4: Bean and then married mister Bean and had mister Bean's baby.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Like, every time something bad happens to me, I'm like, damn,
Speaker 4: at least at least.
Speaker 5: I didn't leave me for mister Bean.
Speaker 2: That would be really bad. There's still time.
Speaker 3: I love the idea of that day day Caster is
Speaker 3: a gateway for mister Bean.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure that, like, given his like exact age,
Speaker 4: he probably loved mister Bean too.
Speaker 5: That had to be like devastating.
Speaker 3: On many levels for traumatizing thoughts.
Speaker 4: In prayers Podcaster He's fine, He's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he's doing just great. So so yeah. Richard
Speaker 2: Curtis directed by Mike Newell, who I think has mostly
Speaker 2: done a lot of British things that I am not
Speaker 2: familiar with. And then he directed one Harry Potter movie.
Speaker 4: He killed Robert Pattinson, that's to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he won.
Speaker 4: That's the only thing I remember from that particular Harry
Speaker 4: Potter movie is that Harry Potter has long hair and
Speaker 4: Robert Pattinson dies. I think that's all that happens. I'm
Speaker 4: sure who cares?
Speaker 2: Yeah, who fucking cares? When it was written by history's greatest,
Speaker 2: the transphob piece of shit.
Speaker 3: Put all in the trash.
Speaker 2: Shall we take a break and then come back for
Speaker 2: the recap.
Speaker 5: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: And we're back.
Speaker 4: Let's check in, Kate, Are you mad at us?
Speaker 3: I'm know, I'm just like, I'm interested, open minded here.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's a cultural thing, and I can argue very
Speaker 3: well could be, but this is just so very British.
Speaker 4: I wonder that the whole time, where I'm like, am
Speaker 4: I just too American to enjoy this movie?
Speaker 3: That's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 2: Well for me, Like I love a lot of British humor.
Speaker 2: I love The Full Monty is one of my favorite movies.
Speaker 2: I love like Simon Pegg penned films, Monty, Python, Yeah,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Yeah, I love all of these things.
Speaker 3: Like I am cultured. I know about Britain.
Speaker 2: I exactly.
Speaker 4: I know that Kitlyn's about to say staph while it's flats.
Speaker 4: I know you're about to drop it.
Speaker 2: That's flat. Is the best show ever made? Yeah? So
Speaker 2: I enjoy a lot of British humor. It's just that
Speaker 2: this movie to me isn't funny.
Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry, so funny. Why do I think it's so funny?
Speaker 4: I think it's it's like a whistle that we can't hear.
Speaker 5: I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, I think I wanted to say because I like.
Speaker 3: The one thing I was like thinking when I was
Speaker 3: rewatching this was it's not good in terms of like
Speaker 3: representation and stuff, but boy is it funny.
Speaker 5: I'm willing.
Speaker 2: I'm willing to I'm willing to be swede. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm I mean, look, I've got an open mind and
Speaker 2: an open heart.
Speaker 5: Yes, so it's true.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 2: So let's take a look at what happens in the movie.
Speaker 2: We meet several people as they are getting ready to
Speaker 2: head to a wedding, one of them being Charles. This
Speaker 2: is Hugh Grant of Paddington two fame. Charles and his
Speaker 2: flatmate Scarlett played by Charlotte Coleman. They wake up late
Speaker 2: and have to rush to the wedding. This will become
Speaker 2: a motif where he's always late to weddings. Their other
Speaker 2: friends are sister and brother Fiona and Tom played by
Speaker 2: Kristin Scott Thomas and James Fleet. There is a gay
Speaker 2: couple Gareth and Matthew played by Simon Callo and John Hannah.
Speaker 2: Charles's brother David played by David Bauer. They all attend
Speaker 2: the wedding of Angus and Laura. Also at this wedding
Speaker 2: is a woman who catches Charles's eye. This is Carrie
Speaker 2: played by Andy McDowell. Fiona seems to know her, and
Speaker 2: she says that Carrie is American and a slut, but
Speaker 2: that does not deter Charles, and he approaches her. That's
Speaker 2: so brave of him. Yeah, he approaches her at the reception,
Speaker 2: but then immediately makes a fool out of himself in
Speaker 2: front of an acquaintance of his played by Simon Koontz,
Speaker 2: who we all recognize as Martin the Butler in Lindsay
Speaker 2: Lohan's My Parent Trap.
Speaker 5: I was cheering.
Speaker 4: I was cheering, cheering, cheering to see Martin the Butler.
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else.
Speaker 3: It was a true I feel like he's a very
Speaker 3: one of those actors that's in a lot of us stuff.
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, it's like watching a Mike Lee movie where
Speaker 4: you're like these these people look familiar, but who are they?
Speaker 2: Okay, So Charles gives his best man speech and people
Speaker 2: are laughing their little asses off, and Carrie seems to
Speaker 2: think he's funny and charming. Then you know, people start dancing.
Speaker 2: Mister Bean is there. He's a priest in training. The
Speaker 2: night wears on, people are getting wasted. One of the bridesmaids, Lydia,
Speaker 2: thought that she was gonna find a hunk at the
Speaker 2: wedding to sleep with, like it was gonna be a
Speaker 2: sure thing that she's a bridesmaid, so she's gonna have sex,
Speaker 2: but she can't find anyone. And then this guy, Bernard
Speaker 2: is like, I'll do it, and she's like, ooh, yucky.
Speaker 2: But then later they start furiously making out and they
Speaker 2: love it. They're the second wedding. Yes. Yes. At the
Speaker 2: end of the night, Carrie, who Charles thought had left,
Speaker 2: approaches him and asks him where he's staying that night,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, I'm staying at my friend's castle,
Speaker 2: and she's like like, oh, well, I'm staying at the Boatman,
Speaker 2: where he was originally supposed to stay. So he blows
Speaker 2: off his friends and goes there to try to run
Speaker 2: into her again, which he does. There's a part where
Speaker 2: he's getting cock blocked by some wind bag. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: Carrie invites Charles up to her room and pretty soon
Speaker 2: they're smooching and then they have sex.
Speaker 3: Did you catch what the wind bag said as well?
Speaker 3: I thought that was quite dark for a rom com.
Speaker 2: He was like stalking Carrie, being like, I have a
Speaker 2: chance with her. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get
Speaker 2: to fuck.
Speaker 4: HER's and she's actively hiding from him.
Speaker 3: I hide mind the sofa.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel like and we'll have a whole
Speaker 4: conversation about how Carrie's sexuality is discussed within the movie.
Speaker 4: But it seems like her reputation precedes her in a
Speaker 4: way that is getting her actively harassed by everyone. And
Speaker 4: I think if we bou chevy test sort of, well,
Speaker 4: I guess not as much with Charles, because she does
Speaker 4: approach Charles and indicate interest, which does not happen with
Speaker 4: anyone else.
Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, Yeah, So they have sex and then the
Speaker 2: next morning she's like, Okay, since we slept together, we
Speaker 2: have to get married. Just kidding, hahha, I'm quirky.
Speaker 4: And then he does the bajillionth It is wild. We
Speaker 4: covered it a long time ago, but the long influential
Speaker 4: tale of oh my gosh, fatal attraction.
Speaker 5: I almost said final destination. I was like, that's not right,
Speaker 5: that's not right.
Speaker 4: But the amount of times that fatal attraction is like
Speaker 4: referenced just as a shorthand for like woman who is unhinged,
Speaker 4: it happens to this day.
Speaker 5: That movie.
Speaker 4: That movie really did a dirty one on culture.
Speaker 2: It really made an impression on insecure men.
Speaker 4: God forbid, Glenn Close, do a good job, Jesus.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. So she like makes a joke and then
Speaker 2: she's like, okay, bye, I have to go back to America,
Speaker 2: see ya, And she leaves and Charles is like, won't.
Speaker 3: Won't.
Speaker 2: There goes my dream woman. We cut to three months later.
Speaker 2: It is the wedding of Lydia and Bernard. Once again,
Speaker 2: Charles and Scarlet are running late to the wedding, so
Speaker 2: they have to sprint there. The same friend group is there, Fiona, Tom, Matthew, Gareth, David,
Speaker 2: and then mister Bean is officiating. But it's his first
Speaker 2: wedding and so he's really nervous and he does a
Speaker 2: terrible job in a scene that is, I'm sorry, way
Speaker 2: too long and dare I say name funny? He makes
Speaker 2: so many.
Speaker 3: Kooky mistakes because.
Speaker 2: I'm Swisszerland here there? Okay, So then at the reception,
Speaker 2: guess who's there? It's Carrie. Even though we don't know
Speaker 2: who she knows at any of these weddings or other events.
Speaker 2: We don't know who she's friends with.
Speaker 4: Seriously, we don't know. We know the things about her
Speaker 4: that the plot requires that we know.
Speaker 2: Which is that she's had sex with a bunch of people.
Speaker 2: She's had sex with thirty two thirty three people. Thirty
Speaker 2: three people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, not even that many.
Speaker 5: I know. Well, yeah, yeah, totally not.
Speaker 3: To not to like make out. I'm not trying to
Speaker 3: shame her for not having more sex. I'm just saying it.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's that deep.
Speaker 2: But yeah, right, I feel like by today's standards, it's
Speaker 2: rookie number because this is nothing. Yeah, she's basically a virgin.
Speaker 3: But the guest lists don't make any sense for this movie.
Speaker 3: I will say that, like, it never makes any sense
Speaker 3: who knows who at these weddings? Like it doesn't seem
Speaker 3: like these people know each other, you know.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, the plot just needs them all in the
Speaker 4: same room.
Speaker 2: Well, because Charles is the best man at the first
Speaker 2: wedding with some guy named Angus, and you would think
Speaker 2: that because he's the best man, he and Angus are
Speaker 2: I don't know, best friends. But then we never see
Speaker 2: Angus again. He's not even at Charles's wedding spoiler alert.
Speaker 3: At the end, he's at Charles's wedding. He is, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's him and his wife are there and they're holding twins.
Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, because every time we see them, that's like,
Speaker 4: how we know how much time has passed?
Speaker 5: Is how many kids that couples?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because like she gets pregnant and then now she's
Speaker 3: holding twins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, my mistake.
Speaker 3: And he's at the funeral. He is at the Yeah,
Speaker 3: so Angus is back. But it is odd because it
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like Angus is in his best mate friendship group.
Speaker 3: So it is odd to be the best man. But
Speaker 3: I think I know people that would choose someone who's like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's someone I've known for a long time, rather than someone.
Speaker 4: That yeah I was I was gonna say, like, sometimes
Speaker 4: the person who ends up being like having the highest
Speaker 4: role at your wedding is like, it's more of like
Speaker 4: a handshake deal you made when you were ten.
Speaker 5: Years old versus your current closest friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, Carrie is at the reception, who Charles hasn't
Speaker 2: seen or heard from since the last wedding, and he's
Speaker 2: very excited to see her. But then she introduces him
Speaker 2: to her fiance, Hamish, some pompous old politician, and Charles
Speaker 2: is like, oh bollocks, oh bugger, oh twat, And the
Speaker 2: rest of the evening Charles Carles is depressed and he's
Speaker 2: running into all of his ex girlfriends. We learned that
Speaker 2: he has said horrible things about all of them, including
Speaker 2: something that was very fat phobic. And then he runs
Speaker 2: into another ex Henrietta, who is acting quote unquote hysterical,
Speaker 2: and she's crying about how it didn't work out with
Speaker 2: Charles and he was so noncommittal and it broke her
Speaker 2: heart and stuff like that. Meanwhile, Fiona confides in a
Speaker 2: random wedding guest that she's in love with someone, but
Speaker 2: we don't know who. And we'll put a pin in
Speaker 2: that and come back. There's a woman who approaches David.
Speaker 2: We have learned that he is deaf and he uses
Speaker 2: British sign language. Turns out she has been learning sign
Speaker 2: language so that they can communicate, and so they're signing together.
Speaker 2: And then there's another long scene where the bride and
Speaker 2: grew come into a room that they didn't realize Charles
Speaker 2: is in and they start having very ridiculous sex and
Speaker 2: he has to like try to sneak out. At the
Speaker 2: end of the night, Charles bumps into Carrie again. Her
Speaker 2: fiance has left for the evening, so Carrie invites Charles
Speaker 2: over for a nightcap. We cut to the next morning.
Speaker 2: They're in bed cuddling. They've had sex the night before,
Speaker 2: and he leaves clearly lamenting that they can't be together.
Speaker 2: We cut to a month later. Charles receives an invitation
Speaker 2: for Carrie's wedding, and then he bumps into her at
Speaker 2: a shop where I think it's like her registry store,
Speaker 2: like wedding registry store, and everything is like thousands of pounds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like it's a lot of like the
Speaker 4: kind of thing you see at a museum and say
Speaker 4: this was unethically stolen. Yeah, that's the at her British museum.
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3: She registered at the British Museum for the stuff that.
Speaker 4: Big colonial vibes at the wedding registry, for sure.
Speaker 2: So they run into each other and Carrie invites him
Speaker 2: to go wedding dress shopping with her. There's a dress
Speaker 2: trying on montage that I think is supposed to endear
Speaker 2: the audience to Carrie, but it did not work for me.
Speaker 4: I also was like, what kind of I was curious,
Speaker 4: and well, we'll talk about it, but like Carrie is,
Speaker 4: because we're kept kind of at arm's length from like
Speaker 4: Carrie's interior life, I'm.
Speaker 5: Like, what is she?
Speaker 4: What is she doing by being like, come wedding dress
Speaker 4: shopping with me? Guy, I've had sex with twice, Like,
Speaker 4: I don't understand who these people are to each other.
Speaker 4: And then at the end it's like, Okay, they're each
Speaker 4: other's true love, sure, but but yeah, her so many
Speaker 4: of her actions were confusing to me and also possible
Speaker 4: to justify only because we know so little of her
Speaker 4: that like you're like, well, I guess maybe she's the
Speaker 4: kind of person that does this.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know this lady. I don't know her. No.
Speaker 2: The only things we know about her are that she
Speaker 2: has a reputation for being a slut parentheses pejorative. We know.
Speaker 4: I don't think the movie sees her as being a
Speaker 4: slut pejorative, though I think the movie sees hears being
Speaker 4: a slut positive.
Speaker 5: They just forgot to write a character.
Speaker 2: We know that she has cheated on her fiance with
Speaker 2: Charles Yes, and has like a really wishy washy code
Speaker 2: of ethics about it. She's like, well, once I'm married,
Speaker 2: I won't cheat, but only because I told my the
Speaker 2: love of my life, that I'd kill him if he
Speaker 2: cheats on me. So I guess I should not be
Speaker 2: a hypocrite.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I kind of I didn't hate that.
Speaker 3: I thought I like this woman.
Speaker 4: I was like, all right, she's you know, she's flawed,
Speaker 4: but I'm listening.
Speaker 5: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, most of how her sexuality was presented
Speaker 4: within the character and by her, I was kind of
Speaker 4: into and felt, I mean, especially for nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 4: kind of like I thought that the movie was going
Speaker 4: to pass far more judgment on her than it does.
Speaker 4: It's one of the only things I enjoyed about this movie.
Speaker 4: But it's also so frustrating because it's attached to this
Speaker 4: character who other like other than that element of like
Speaker 4: she has sex for pleasure and isn't judged by the
Speaker 4: movie or the romantic lead for that we'd know that
Speaker 4: she I think that they're like, oh, we sort of
Speaker 4: find out what her job is. I think she's in
Speaker 4: like fashion journalism, very sort of vague rom comedy kind
Speaker 4: of job. But even that we're only told so that
Speaker 4: we're told that so she has sex with a lot
Speaker 4: of fancy guys. Like the only reason we know what
Speaker 4: her job is is so that we understand that she
Speaker 4: has a lot of sex. Everything goes back to that
Speaker 4: with this character for the most part, so you.
Speaker 2: Know, including what's about to happen, which is that after
Speaker 2: the wedding dress trying on montage, they grab a coffee
Speaker 2: and they're chatting and she goes through her list of
Speaker 2: everyone she's had sex with. It's again thirty three people,
Speaker 2: though she says number thirty two was lovely, and guess
Speaker 2: who's number thirty two. It's Charles, so he's like awe,
Speaker 2: But also.
Speaker 4: Lovely is like, honestly, lovely is a little vague for me.
Speaker 4: If someone's citing me and their sexual history and they
Speaker 4: say lovely, I'm like Okay, what do you mean that's
Speaker 4: not that's I mean, that's nice for something casual, But
Speaker 4: if if this is the love of my life, I'm like,
Speaker 4: I you would hope for better than lovely, right, you
Speaker 4: know drug.
Speaker 3: I think she's saying it like that because she knows
Speaker 3: it's about him. She's like, I enjoyed her sex list.
Speaker 3: She sort of gave descriptions, but only for some people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes she's like eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, was seeing
Speaker 2: fun or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we revealed that two of them were
Speaker 3: together at the same time, she had threesome. I like
Speaker 3: that for her.
Speaker 4: That scene is interesting because it's very much like a
Speaker 4: tip it. For me, it was like a tipping point
Speaker 4: in the movie of like, oh, the way that this
Speaker 4: scene plays out will very much affect my opinion. And
Speaker 4: it felt I'm curious what you'veould think.
Speaker 5: It felt like Charles.
Speaker 4: And it's hard not just to say Hugh Grant because
Speaker 4: that is sort of the part here, to be honest,
Speaker 4: but like Charles, it looks like for a moment is
Speaker 4: deciding whether he's going to judge her and then sort
Speaker 4: of decides not to. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that
Speaker 4: was sort of how I read because we have these
Speaker 4: like long takes of like him taking this in and
Speaker 4: like kind of squinting when the list keeps going, but
Speaker 4: then he kind of comes back and is cool with it,
Speaker 4: and then it sort of doesn't come up again, at
Speaker 4: least between the two of them, and I don't know,
Speaker 4: like I didn't hate it for nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2: I was impressed.
Speaker 3: I felt like the squinting was like more his own insecurity.
Speaker 2: Interesting. That's how I read it too, that.
Speaker 3: He was like, I just haven't had this much sex,
Speaker 3: and this movie, I think is basically trying to be
Speaker 3: like sex is cool and people that have a lot
Speaker 3: of sex.
Speaker 2: Here first, sex is cool according to for what.
Speaker 3: That's the vibe I got, because there was so much
Speaker 3: like shagging chat from the get go.
Speaker 5: Yeah it's a sex positive movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but I read it that way too,
Speaker 2: where she continues on with her list and Charles is
Speaker 2: intimidated by her number, which seems to be much higher
Speaker 2: than his, and then it's confirmed that it is because
Speaker 2: shortly after this he reveals that he's had sex with
Speaker 2: nine people, so he's insecure. Yeah yeah, Okay, So the
Speaker 2: conversation happens, and then he has to leave to meet
Speaker 2: up with his brother David. But then he's like, you
Speaker 2: know what, fuck it, and he turns around and runs
Speaker 2: after Carrie and then like blatheringly tells her that he
Speaker 2: thinks he's in love with her, and she's basically like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's cute, okay, best of luck with everything. Then we
Speaker 2: cut to Carrie in Hamish's wedding in Scotland. Charles is
Speaker 2: of course late to the wedding. He comes in right
Speaker 2: as they're saying, there I dos, and he's like, damn
Speaker 2: bugger bollocks, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: At the reception, Charles runs into his ex Henrietta again,
Speaker 2: and this time she seems more stable and she has
Speaker 2: a new boyfriend, and.
Speaker 4: She basically hints at having an eating disorder. It's all
Speaker 4: very nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote, because she says, I weigh almost nothing
Speaker 2: and I have a new boyfriend. I'm so happy, And
Speaker 2: it's like, right, the two things that would make a
Speaker 2: woman happen.
Speaker 4: I mean, and at almost every phase of like every
Speaker 4: decade of media has a different way of presenting disordered eating,
Speaker 4: Like we have simply not moved past it, but This
Speaker 4: is a very nineties way of you. It almost reminds
Speaker 4: me of like Monica on Friends, where there is a
Speaker 4: reference to a character who is now very thin used
Speaker 4: to be fat, but you never actually see a fat person.
Speaker 5: You see a former fat person bullied.
Speaker 2: And also she's wearing a fat suit.
Speaker 4: If you see her, it's a thin actor in a
Speaker 4: fat suit. Right, So that was a very I mean
Speaker 4: not to say that that stopped after the nineties, but
Speaker 4: it just feels like a very nineties way to even
Speaker 4: reference fatness as a pejorative. It's not even present, it
Speaker 4: is past tense.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, So Charles runs into
Speaker 2: Henrietta again. She seems more stable than last time, and
Speaker 2: I think this is to establish that maybe she is
Speaker 2: romantically viable for Charles question Mark, to potentially foreshadow something
Speaker 2: I don't really know.
Speaker 5: I was still surprised, honestly at the end that it
Speaker 5: turns out to be her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. I thought maybe I didn't know.
Speaker 2: I couldn't remember who it ended up being, and I
Speaker 2: was just like, oh her.
Speaker 4: I thought I was gonna be Fiona, And that would
Speaker 4: have made me really sad because that would have been
Speaker 4: so cruel to her.
Speaker 2: Because what happens next is that Fiona divulges to Charles
Speaker 2: that the man that she has been in love with
Speaker 2: for a very long time is none other than Charles,
Speaker 2: and they're both just sort of like, oh shucks.
Speaker 4: That was Yeah, that was I thought that again, like
Speaker 4: of the subversive things that this movie does, I was surprised,
Speaker 4: I guess by that plot point, and not in a
Speaker 4: bad way.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that.
Speaker 4: It also seems like Fiona is bummed out that she's
Speaker 4: in love with Charles.
Speaker 3: Like she.
Speaker 4: It seems like she's like, I mean, it is like
Speaker 4: the whatever the curse of being like attracted to a
Speaker 4: good friend is. You also know you're well aware of
Speaker 4: everything that's wrong with though. Yeah, so it's like hard
Speaker 4: to romanticize she but yeah, she's sort of I thought
Speaker 4: it was just funny the way that she sort of
Speaker 4: presents like, yeah, I'm in love with you.
Speaker 5: I'm just as upset about it as you are.
Speaker 4: Like it's a bummer, but you know, I guess, I
Speaker 4: guess I hadn't seen that dynamic presented in quite that way.
Speaker 3: I liked it because it was not really like old
Speaker 3: school love, like where you just like you like love
Speaker 3: someone and there's like nothing you can do about it.
Speaker 3: I don't even know if that would happen to me.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I feel like i'd be too jaded.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm too jaded. I'd just be like I
Speaker 3: wouldn't be even able to get to those levels of
Speaker 3: feelings for someone.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I know I would.
Speaker 5: After forty five seconds, it's nice.
Speaker 2: I'm sick. Oh freak uh no. Anyway, so Carrie and
Speaker 2: Hamish each give a speech at the reception during what
Speaker 2: Charles's friend Gareth suffers I think a heart attack and
Speaker 2: passes away. And so the funeral part of the title
Speaker 2: of this movie is his funeral. All of his friends attend.
Speaker 4: I was pissed off it pissed curiating, don't piss me
Speaker 4: off there, It's like, of course, yeah, it's it's four
Speaker 4: weddings of eight annoying straight people and we kill one
Speaker 4: of our only two queer characters.
Speaker 3: Yes, but don't you think that mirrors life often? I mean,
Speaker 3: you go to a lot of weddings are very annoying
Speaker 3: straight people.
Speaker 4: That's true, that is true, But it's like I'm watching
Speaker 4: this in my spare time.
Speaker 2: There's also a line because Matthew gives a very heartfelt eulogy.
Speaker 2: He says that Gareth preferred going funerals over weddings because
Speaker 2: he liked the idea of going to something that he
Speaker 2: would actually experience one day, because he couldn't experience a
Speaker 2: wedding since he's gay. And I don't know when or it's.
Speaker 4: Same sex marriage twenty fourteen, Okay, yeah, no, it's very
Speaker 4: very much not like.
Speaker 3: Ten years away from twenty years.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I also.
Speaker 4: Think, you know, I even so, even if it was not,
Speaker 4: you know, legal, there's plenty of like partnership celebrations that happened,
Speaker 4: like with gay couples for sure, prior to like it
Speaker 4: could have it didn't need to be a recognized by
Speaker 4: the government wedding.
Speaker 5: We could have had a gay wedding. Come on, yeah,
Speaker 5: why did we have a gay funeral? I'm so pissed.
Speaker 3: Akay, Yeah, it's sad, but I don't know. I think
Speaker 3: that's one of the bits where it was like the
Speaker 3: secretly gay surprise like the whole time, and I was like,
Speaker 3: isn't that great that they're secretly gay, And like a
Speaker 3: friend of mine who's also Americans and maybe was like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't know. It just sort of implies that their
Speaker 3: friends didn't pay an attention to what was going on
Speaker 3: in their lives, Like you should have known that your
Speaker 3: friends were gay.
Speaker 4: I thought that they were because they they kind of
Speaker 4: they like share an affectionate moment. I think it's like
Speaker 4: a kiss on the cheek the first time we see them.
Speaker 4: So I guess I thought that they were like that
Speaker 4: they were out and everyone knew the whole movie, or
Speaker 4: that's how I interpreted it.
Speaker 3: No, no one knows. That's the point. Oh, they find
Speaker 3: out at the funeral.
Speaker 5: Really.
Speaker 3: Oh that wait, you were under the impression that they
Speaker 3: knew the whole time those two were gay. Yes, No,
Speaker 3: no one knows. Everyone finds out at the funeral, which
Speaker 3: is why Childs says afterwards to Tom, we were proud
Speaker 3: that we were in a friendship group where we were single,
Speaker 3: but to all intensive purposes, two of us were secretly married,
Speaker 3: and Tom says, yes, traitors in our midst No one,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm choking with emotion. No one knew
Speaker 3: they were gay until the funeral. Well that's why it's
Speaker 3: so like hotbreaking.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Okay, see that was like where my nineteen ninety four
Speaker 4: goggles were not on, because I guess when you put
Speaker 4: it that way, I guess we don't see other characters
Speaker 4: acknowledge their relationship, but we as the audience, see that
Speaker 4: they're together right away. So I guess I just I
Speaker 4: put something contemporary on it and assumed that, like, of
Speaker 4: course everyone knows they're together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but also the infection between them throughout the whole thing,
Speaker 3: and like we know, I think that they like live together,
Speaker 3: but I think people just think they're roommates so like friends.
Speaker 2: So I had two very different experiences watching this movie
Speaker 2: within like a day apart to prep for this episode.
Speaker 2: Because all the previous times I watched this movie, I
Speaker 2: forgot everything. That's the other thing about this movie. As
Speaker 2: soon as like if a few days pass I like
Speaker 2: leaves you in a few days from now, it'll everything,
Speaker 2: every detail will leave me. So when I watched it
Speaker 2: this time, it was basically like watching it for the
Speaker 2: first time again. I remembered nothing. So I didn't remember
Speaker 2: anything about the relationship between Gareth and Matthew. So the
Speaker 2: first time I watched this the other day to prep
Speaker 2: for this episode, it took me till the end of
Speaker 2: the movie to realize that they had been romantically partnered.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Prior to that, I just was like, because I noticed
Speaker 2: the moments that they like had a little bit of
Speaker 2: like you know, uh, Matthew like wipes something off of Gareth's.
Speaker 4: Bearney all had such different experiences because I thought from
Speaker 4: the moment you meet these two characters, I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: these two are together, Look how like affectionate and sweet
Speaker 4: they're being.
Speaker 2: I chalked that up to again, the first viewing of
Speaker 2: this movie the other day, to Gareth is like really
Speaker 2: wacky and zany, and so most of the times when
Speaker 2: they have a moment like that of like physical embracing
Speaker 2: or affection, I just chalked it up to like he's
Speaker 2: a goof interests.
Speaker 3: One of those people that's like in the Historian, you know,
Speaker 3: you go back in history and it's like they shared
Speaker 3: a bed. One of them inherited the other as well.
Speaker 3: It's like God in the bass Gates.
Speaker 4: You know, goofy, my aunt and her friend, Yeah run
Speaker 4: a plant business.
Speaker 3: It's like she lived alone and she never got married.
Speaker 3: She just all of her money went to a woman
Speaker 3: whose bed she shared for twelve years. And you're like okay,
Speaker 3: well okay.
Speaker 2: But then once I realized that they had been partnered
Speaker 2: that whole time. On my second watch of this movie
Speaker 2: aka this morning, I felt from like the whole time,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, no, it is clear that
Speaker 2: they are romantically together.
Speaker 4: That's so in I guess that there. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four, while you know, seeing queer characters in
Speaker 4: movies obviously wasn't completely unheard of. But I do think
Speaker 4: that it's especially presentations of gay characters in movies in
Speaker 4: the nineties, I feel like it's so important because of
Speaker 4: how prevalent AIDS was in the late eighties into the nineties,
Speaker 4: that all representation specifically of gay men was like very intentional,
Speaker 4: which is why it really really really bothered me that
Speaker 4: they killed off one of our only gay characters.
Speaker 5: It's just, ugh, I hated it.
Speaker 4: I okay, I'm like trying to figure out if there
Speaker 4: is a definitive read of like did people know or not?
Speaker 4: And it seemed I this is blowing my mind. This
Speaker 4: is a very interesting Ruschac test.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess for me, that's like one of the
Speaker 3: key moments is the movie, and one of the reasons
Speaker 3: why I think historically I've always said I quite liked
Speaker 3: it is like the presence of a gay relationship that
Speaker 3: isn't out, because I think it kind of is trying
Speaker 3: to say something about that about that. I don't think
Speaker 3: for these group of people at the time we were in
Speaker 3: at it would be necessarily be super comfortable to be out,
Speaker 3: and I think it's the funeral that forces that out
Speaker 3: because it's like because British people will not talk about
Speaker 3: their feelings, as we can see from this entire movie,
Speaker 3: including one man who like just doesn't marry the person
Speaker 3: he wants to marry because he can't be bothered to
Speaker 3: tell her that he loves her.
Speaker 4: Well tried and it didn't work, so I guess has
Speaker 4: to suck it.
Speaker 5: He has to take a woman down with him.
Speaker 3: But that's just Britain for you. That's just the British,
Speaker 3: like we can't proses our emotions and so the entire
Speaker 3: world has to come down with us because that's our
Speaker 3: deal as a nation state. But I think, yeah, I
Speaker 3: guess that's why at the time it was considered quite
Speaker 3: radical maybe or not like radical. I don't know if
Speaker 3: anyone would describe Fallings as the Funerals radical, but like
Speaker 3: poignant that there was like these characters that were gay
Speaker 3: and no one knew, and then like, but when you
Speaker 3: love someone and you lose them, you have to admit
Speaker 3: that you loved.
Speaker 4: Them, right, I agree, and I do, there's a way.
Speaker 4: It's still it will always bother me that one of
Speaker 4: the gay characters died and a million boring straight people lived.
Speaker 3: But I do that's fat.
Speaker 4: It does feel intentional in a positive way. And again,
Speaker 4: I'm like trying to put nineteen ninety four goggles on.
Speaker 4: It feels like intentional in a positive way, that their
Speaker 4: love was in spite of all of the cultural stigma
Speaker 4: and the fact that even their friends were not completely
Speaker 4: aware that they were together, that their relationship was an
Speaker 4: extremely positive and beautiful.
Speaker 2: Probably the healthiest relationship of all the characters in the
Speaker 2: entire movie exactly. And I don't think healthy is aware
Speaker 2: of that. I do think the movie's aware of that.
Speaker 2: And I did like whatever the end, like polaroids. I
Speaker 2: love when a movie ends with a couple of polaroids.
Speaker 4: It's very parent Trapped nineteen ninety eight. True, but that
Speaker 4: you see that Matthew like finds love again, and I thought, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think that's soul.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean again in nineteen ninety four, the
Speaker 2: bar was so low for queer representation on screen, but
Speaker 2: the fact that like these characters are like not the
Speaker 2: butt of a joke ever, or like their queerness is
Speaker 2: never the butt of a joke.
Speaker 4: Well, and it's not just coded. It is like over,
Speaker 4: oh they are over. It's I guess you can't really
Speaker 4: say they're out characters because that's, I.
Speaker 2: Guess not true.
Speaker 4: Even though I didn't realize that I was.
Speaker 3: I was. I love that you thought everyone knew I
Speaker 3: just But then why would the conversation happen after its
Speaker 3: where he's like, we all thought we was sinking.
Speaker 2: I was being missus Millennium. I don't know, I'm.
Speaker 3: Just because the whole thing is like they have this
Speaker 3: comversation where they're like, oh my god, crazy that two
Speaker 3: of our friends were in love this whole time.
Speaker 2: A similar scene happens in the full Monty Actually, where
Speaker 2: two of the characters on Like the Dance Troupe start
Speaker 2: hooking up. They like, they get together, maybe fall in love,
Speaker 2: and no one else in the troop knows about it
Speaker 2: until at a funeral. Although it's neither of the gay
Speaker 2: characters who dies, but they're at someone else's funeral and
Speaker 2: they're like holding hands, and then the other men in
Speaker 2: the dance troupe are like, whoa, yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker 2: I have to watch the full Monty again. Oh it's
Speaker 2: so good anyway. Uh. And we can talk more about
Speaker 2: their relationship if we want. But back to the flim
Speaker 2: Carrie is at the funeral. Why who does she know
Speaker 2: of these people?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, maybe for this one. Perhaps she's
Speaker 2: there to like pay her respects because it was her
Speaker 2: wedding that Gareth died at, So like maybe maybe that's
Speaker 2: why she's there. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yes, Also I don't know. Okay, let's do a thought exit.
Speaker 4: If someone died at your wedding but they were a
Speaker 4: plus one.
Speaker 2: I would I.
Speaker 4: Would, I just I would worry. Here's I would worry
Speaker 4: that you would be viewed as like people would be
Speaker 4: nervous to be around me after that.
Speaker 5: Like, I don't know if people would want you there.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, I think that you're like a bad
Speaker 2: omen or something.
Speaker 4: They died at your wedding, but you weren't friends because
Speaker 4: they were plus one.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I feel like you kind of look like the grim
Speaker 4: Reaper showing up at the funeral, Like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: I feel like that's that's I would I would send,
Speaker 4: I would send flowers. I would send flowers, But I
Speaker 4: don't think I would go because I think people would
Speaker 4: look at me like the grim reaper.
Speaker 3: Would you cancel your honeymoon as well for someone else's
Speaker 3: like a plus one that died at your wedding plus one?
Speaker 4: That's tough. That's it depends on if the flights are.
Speaker 3: But do we know for sure he was a plus one?
Speaker 5: We kind of how any of the how, I don't
Speaker 5: know how. She knows Matthew either.
Speaker 3: So they met wedding number two Gareth and Carrie because
Speaker 3: he's like, oh, we had this really funny girl at
Speaker 3: this American girl at our table. She was really funny.
Speaker 4: So maybe Gareth was the invite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I wondered if maybe, you know, like sometimes
Speaker 3: you meet someone and then like you have a really
Speaker 3: good fun bonding. And maybe because she's American and not repressed,
Speaker 3: she knew he was gay, and she'd worked at Vogue
Speaker 3: as well, so maybe she like met other queer people,
Speaker 3: so she was like, this man is fun and gay,
Speaker 3: and then actually maybe they developed a kind of bond
Speaker 3: where she was like, I'm gonna invite this guy to
Speaker 3: my wedding. We had a really good time at that
Speaker 3: other wedding.
Speaker 4: I would I love this headcanon because that would require
Speaker 4: that we get to know Gareth and Carrie, which I
Speaker 4: would love.
Speaker 3: Imagine if we got a scene of Gareth and Carrie,
Speaker 3: they would enough like the best of fun.
Speaker 2: It would have been really nice and well, I think
Speaker 2: it would have been Gareth being fun and Carrie being
Speaker 2: boring as fuck.
Speaker 3: She's had sex with three people. She's not boring.
Speaker 2: You're right, you're right, you're right. I just find her
Speaker 2: to be such a like nothing character.
Speaker 5: But I don't think that's the fault of the character.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's the fault the writer. Yeh, ch exactly, yes, Okay.
Speaker 2: So Carrie is at the funeral and she goes up
Speaker 2: to Charles and she's like, remember when you told me
Speaker 2: that you loved me? Well I liked that. Okay, bye,
Speaker 2: and then she leaves her like grow up. And so
Speaker 2: at this funeral, Charles, I'm not exactly sure whoa I mean.
Speaker 2: So he has that conversation with Tom. They're talking about
Speaker 2: love and romance, and the impression I got was that
Speaker 2: Charles realizes that you that you could die at any
Speaker 2: moment the way his friend died at any moment, and
Speaker 2: that you have to kind of, to quote Jack Dawson
Speaker 2: in Titanic, make each day count. Because we cut to
Speaker 2: ten months later, Charles wakes up for a wedding. But
Speaker 2: whose wedding is it? Surprise? It's his wedding. But wait,
Speaker 2: who is he marrying his ex girlfriend Henrietta? So apparently
Speaker 2: he'd had some kind of.
Speaker 4: Get away from her. Justice for Henrietta, she was literally
Speaker 4: just getting over him too. She was just getting over him. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 4: but he's not. He's he's marrying her instead. No, he's well,
Speaker 4: he's thinking about it. He should end with her shooting him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So we're at his wedding. Charles is greeting
Speaker 2: people as they arrive, including Carrie. She reveals that she
Speaker 2: and Hamish have split up, and so Charles starts having
Speaker 2: second thoughts about the marriage that he's about to enter into.
Speaker 2: His feet are getting so cold, and he's asking Matthew
Speaker 2: and David what he should do, but he ultimately decides
Speaker 2: to go through with it despite all of his misgivings.
Speaker 2: So the wedding begins and the priest gets to the
Speaker 2: part where he says, you know, if anyone opposes this union,
Speaker 2: speak now or forever hold your piece, which we all
Speaker 2: remember is a very iconic moment in the movie Shrek.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's also a very iconic moment in fictional weddings
Speaker 4: that I've actually never heard at an actual wedding. Because
Speaker 4: I would love to object as like a joke, but
Speaker 4: I've never actually heard it said at all.
Speaker 5: Five trillion been.
Speaker 3: To You've never had it said?
Speaker 2: No, Maybe they don't do it at American weddings.
Speaker 5: Wait, have you heard it?
Speaker 3: I have had it.
Speaker 5: I'm so jealous.
Speaker 3: I've had it. But some people choose to have it caughtau.
Speaker 4: Okay, see because they don't want to give any and
Speaker 4: the opportunity because they're gonna get divorced.
Speaker 3: I think so. But I've had it in church weddings before.
Speaker 4: Interesting. I'm gonna, I think, at my wedding, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: let them. I'm gonna let them say it, and if
Speaker 4: it's not there, I'm gonna say add it in added
Speaker 4: in let's make this a group discussion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, get it in there.
Speaker 4: I feel like it's almost a way of showing your
Speaker 4: confident enough in your relationship that you don't think anyone's
Speaker 4: going to object.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, so obviously I'm going to
Speaker 2: your wedding, Jimmy.
Speaker 5: Well going to object.
Speaker 3: I guess of people. I don't really know.
Speaker 2: We'll see. I'm going to bring a projector and play
Speaker 2: that scene from Shrek.
Speaker 4: A super cut of wedding objections. There's it's statistically you
Speaker 4: would think it happens every other wedding if you had
Speaker 4: just seen weddings in movies. Yeah, exactly, And honestly, if
Speaker 4: someone objects like that, that keeps the afternoon juicy. That
Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, people are traveling from out
Speaker 4: of town, they should get a show, exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so David objects, yeah, and he signs while Charles
Speaker 2: translates vocally that David suspects that the groom is having doubts,
Speaker 2: having such doubts that he loves someone else, and Charles
Speaker 2: admits this is true. So Henrietta punches him in the
Speaker 2: face and the wedding is called off. We cut to
Speaker 2: Charles and his friends like backstage or whatever. He's freaking
Speaker 2: the fuck out, and then the doorbell rings and it's
Speaker 2: Carrie and she's soaking wet from the rain and she's like,
Speaker 2: whoops it, Aisy, I shouldn't have come to the wedding.
Speaker 2: I guess I kind of ruined it. And he's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm glad you did. It made me realize that I
Speaker 2: was about to marry the wrong person because I love
Speaker 2: someone else and that someone else is you, and I
Speaker 2: want to be with you forever, but let's not get
Speaker 2: married because I don't think I believe even marriage or
Speaker 2: it's not for me.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, you too, Like I mean, not
Speaker 4: to defend marriage, but I'm like, yeah, clearly, you too
Speaker 4: are not very decisive people, so maybe marriage is not
Speaker 4: for you.
Speaker 3: I think it was like a lot to go through
Speaker 3: for this man to realize that what he's against is
Speaker 3: like getting married as an institution like like that that
Speaker 3: was kind of like the big takeaway was that this
Speaker 3: guy shouldn't really get married. Of the film, which is like,
Speaker 3: you needed too much stuff to happen for that growth
Speaker 3: to happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, like they need like an open relationship or
Speaker 4: something too, because yeah, because she I mean again and
Speaker 4: I I'm trying not to pass judgment on her, and
Speaker 4: because I really don't care, And I actually kind of
Speaker 4: thought it was cool that she cheated on her fialt
Speaker 4: and the movie didn't punish her for it, even though
Speaker 4: is that a nice thing to do.
Speaker 2: In a monogamous relationship?
Speaker 4: Obviously not, but I feel like, usually, particularly for women
Speaker 4: who cheat, the punishment by the plot is so over
Speaker 4: the top, like she dies, like right, and so for
Speaker 4: that to not happen in this movie I really liked.
Speaker 4: But also they should like be in an open relationship,
Speaker 4: they should just date for a while, Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 4: And it seems like that's what they decide to do.
Speaker 4: While David gets married and Matthew finds a new partner
Speaker 4: in La La La.
Speaker 2: Right, because the movie ends with a montage of photos
Speaker 2: of a bunch of people getting together romantically. Henrietta marries
Speaker 2: someone else. I don't know who that guy is, but
Speaker 2: she finds love elsewhere better.
Speaker 3: Than He had the same face as her, which I enjoyed,
Speaker 3: didn't that he looked like.
Speaker 2: So we get those snapshots, we see David has married
Speaker 2: the woman he at the second wedding who had been
Speaker 2: learning that British sign language. Scarlet marries an American guy
Speaker 2: that she met at the third wedding chester Chester. Tom
Speaker 2: marries a lady who he knew for I Okay, now
Speaker 2: that's funny.
Speaker 5: I'm laughing. I'm laughing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's like, I'm cousin Judy or whatever, and
Speaker 3: he's like, oh so your family. She's like, only very
Speaker 3: distantly and it's so posh and it's so upper class
Speaker 3: British to definitely marry someone you're already slightly related to.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that felt very class commentary to me, which I did.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but it definitely felt like
Speaker 4: a class commentary thing.
Speaker 2: But for a moment I was watching that scene, I
Speaker 2: was like, what is this incest meet cute that I'm watching?
Speaker 3: Like, that's what it was, And that's how rich people
Speaker 3: in England find. Part is they.
Speaker 2: Find they go to the family reunion.
Speaker 3: Reunion and they marry cousin dedre.
Speaker 2: You hate to see. Yeah, anyway, Fiona marries Prince Charles.
Speaker 4: Really bizarre, really bizarre.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's trying to say she's so optight
Speaker 3: that that would be passing good enough for her.
Speaker 2: Well, because it's mine because she and Tom are brothers, right,
Speaker 2: and it's established that Tom is like the seventh richest
Speaker 2: person in the UK or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, and also, this is an interesting time to be
Speaker 4: portrayed as marrying Prince Charles because I had to like
Speaker 4: fact check. I'm like, what amount of divorced were Charles
Speaker 4: and Diana at this point? And the answer is sort of, oh,
Speaker 4: wait was she When.
Speaker 2: Did she die?
Speaker 4: She died in ninety seven, but their divorce wasn't finalized
Speaker 4: until ninety six. But I think that they were already
Speaker 4: in the process of splitting up. I don't know, some
Speaker 4: nebulous in between. I was like, there's some there's some
Speaker 4: British stuff going on here that I don't fully understand.
Speaker 4: Was like, I don't know how the timeline worked. Wasn't
Speaker 4: there for sure?
Speaker 2: For sure?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: And then finally we see Charles and Carrie together. They're
Speaker 2: not getting married, but they are holding a baby the end.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeay, we.
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to
Speaker 2: discuss and we're back, and we're back.
Speaker 4: I guess let's start by just sort of closing the
Speaker 4: loop on Carrie. We've been talking about her quite a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think that I've basically said what I wanted to
Speaker 4: say about the carry, like I do think that there
Speaker 4: are subversive aspects to her character, but there is a
Speaker 4: really clear lack of character outside of that subversion. So
Speaker 4: her being sex positive great, her not being punished by
Speaker 4: the plot for being sex positive and having sex for
Speaker 4: pleasure great, But like a second fact about her never materializes,
Speaker 4: and in a way that like, and I love Auntie McDowell,
Speaker 4: but it's like she just doesn't really have Like I
Speaker 4: found so much of her behavior confusing because I don't
Speaker 4: know anything about her. I don't understand why she's doing
Speaker 4: like a wedding dress montage with this guy she's hooked
Speaker 4: up with, a couple of times. I don't understand, Like
Speaker 4: there's I couldn't track her behavior because anything with her
Speaker 4: could be true outside of anything related to her being
Speaker 4: sex positive.
Speaker 5: So I just like, I guess it's it's weird because
Speaker 5: it's glaring to me.
Speaker 4: But I also don't have that much to say about
Speaker 4: it because it's like I don't really object to a
Speaker 4: lot about her character because there isn't.
Speaker 2: There isn't much. Yeah, I also found her sense of
Speaker 2: humor really she clearly has a sense of humor, but
Speaker 2: I found it so confusing, especially the scene where It's
Speaker 2: the morning after they've had sex for the first time,
Speaker 2: and she says something like, when were you planning to
Speaker 2: announce the engagement? Well, we've slept together, of course the
Speaker 2: way assumed we'd be getting married. And then Hugh Grant
Speaker 2: is doing his like stammering Hugh Grant thing, and then
Speaker 2: he's like, wait a minute, you're just fucking with me,
Speaker 2: and she's like tea, And I was like, what is
Speaker 2: this joke?
Speaker 3: Like, I didn't think it was a joke.
Speaker 2: Oh you think she was serious?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she then says, I think we both missed
Speaker 3: a great opportunity here.
Speaker 4: I think that both things are true, though I think
Speaker 4: she thinks that they they did miss an opportunity to
Speaker 4: like spend more time together.
Speaker 2: I thought that was in reference to her, like she's
Speaker 2: about to go back to the US, so they like
Speaker 2: couldn't pursue anything. But I did assume that she was
Speaker 2: joking about that, like weird let's get married thing.
Speaker 4: I sort of viewed that joke as like just a
Speaker 4: way to set up the lazy fatal attraction joke.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I thought she was a slut who but in a
Speaker 3: positive way, and she had hit the time that she
Speaker 3: wanted to get married was the vibe I got of her.
Speaker 3: And I'm reading a lot intern and I think she
Speaker 3: felt like it was her time. She'd worked a vogue,
Speaker 3: it was her time now to find her husband. So
Speaker 3: I think she was saying to him, Yeah, a little
Speaker 3: bit in jest, but like a little bit serious, like
Speaker 3: if you're serious about this, I will come from America,
Speaker 3: and like we can pursue something, but you need to
Speaker 3: be in it, and you're not giving me any vibes
Speaker 3: that you want to necessarily see me like more than this,
Speaker 3: So like is there anymore? And then how Hamish got
Speaker 3: her was he just got her at a time where
Speaker 3: she was like I'm looking for a husband, because otherwise
Speaker 3: why would she marry that old man?
Speaker 4: Well, I just don't know enough about her to understand
Speaker 4: what drew her to Himish, Like I is she looking
Speaker 4: for security? Does she genuinely love him? It doesn't really
Speaker 4: seem that way. I mean it seems more like a
Speaker 4: handshake marriage than anything else, because she doesn't really have
Speaker 4: an issue with cheating on him, which.
Speaker 5: Is like relationships like that exist.
Speaker 4: But like I, I just didn't have enough information, and
Speaker 4: that also is not limited to Carrie's character because I
Speaker 4: guess I just sort of like, oh, I don't think
Speaker 4: that she would want to really be with Charles because
Speaker 4: we're told by Fiona that, like he doesn't have enough
Speaker 4: money for her, which leads me to.
Speaker 5: The question, what does he do?
Speaker 4: What's a second fact about him?
Speaker 5: And I was like, I don't know anything about.
Speaker 3: Him, any second facts about him.
Speaker 4: We don't really know anything about anyone.
Speaker 3: No, you can say that this woman character was badly portrayed,
Speaker 3: but no one has a job, No one see kind
Speaker 3: of do anything apart from just go to a series
Speaker 3: of like different life events services in churches, and that's unusual.
Speaker 2: So I found something about this basically Richard Curtis, who
Speaker 2: kind of based this movie off of like his experience
Speaker 2: of over the course of four years or something like that,
Speaker 2: he attended sixty five weddings what and it one of
Speaker 2: them so popular?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Wow? I was like, Wow, he must be a really
Speaker 4: fun guy to hang out with.
Speaker 2: You must be, he didn't think.
Speaker 3: So he was friends with David Cameron, who did Brexit Jesus.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so well, okay, so At won such wedding. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was propositioned by someone and turned that person down
Speaker 2: and then lived to regret it. And so he was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: what if what if I wrote a movie that the
Speaker 2: person doesn't earn the other person down and four weddings
Speaker 2: in a funeral was born.
Speaker 4: Guess what, Richard Curtis, I look as someone who famously
Speaker 4: fucked my.
Speaker 5: Life up for a goudy.
Speaker 4: You never go home with someone at a wedding and
Speaker 4: then talk to them again. You can go home with them.
Speaker 5: But then you have to just wake up and be like,
Speaker 5: all right, let's see you never see.
Speaker 4: You never enjoy your life. If you ever have regretted
Speaker 4: not hooking up with someone at a wedding or not
Speaker 4: following up after you hooked up with them, don't make
Speaker 4: my mistakes. Don't contact them.
Speaker 3: I feel like I need to know so much about
Speaker 3: this story.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 5: We'll talk, we'll talk about it, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 4: But I think I think that is another I should
Speaker 4: have said that at the beginning. I will never be
Speaker 4: like I really enjoyed this movie where two people meet
Speaker 4: at a wedding.
Speaker 3: It's triggering, that's traumatizing.
Speaker 5: Actually, don't do that.
Speaker 2: But the point is that Richard car just based this
Speaker 2: off of some of like some experiences he had kind
Speaker 2: of and he said that he chose to omit the
Speaker 2: characters like talking about their jobs or like giving us
Speaker 2: a sense of what they do for a living, because
Speaker 2: he felt a group of friends would not discuss their
Speaker 2: jobs while at weddings.
Speaker 3: I think in the nineties that's true. I think we're
Speaker 3: at a different stage of capitalism where everyone discusses their
Speaker 3: job all the time because it's very stressful and everyone
Speaker 3: works a lot and it's very burnt out. But I
Speaker 3: think people in the nineties didn't work that much and
Speaker 3: still have quite nice houses. And so what you're going
Speaker 3: to talk about, I guess.
Speaker 4: I guess that still doesn't explain. That explains the friend
Speaker 4: stuff to me. That doesn't explain Carrie though, because she
Speaker 4: doesn't know them, Like what else does she have to
Speaker 4: talk to them about, other than how she knows that
Speaker 4: people getting.
Speaker 5: Married, but she will famously never disclose.
Speaker 2: Also, like, I'm okay with not knowing what a person
Speaker 2: does for their job, because people are not defined by
Speaker 2: the labor that they do. If we knew other things
Speaker 2: about them, what are their interests, what are their views
Speaker 2: on the world, like any other things. But that's also lacking.
Speaker 3: These people are too posh.
Speaker 4: Maybe, I mean, yeah, because I had that question as well.
Speaker 4: I mean we sometimes I think the most we learned
Speaker 4: about characters is like whether they're rich or not by
Speaker 4: the standards of the people at the wedding, which seems
Speaker 4: quite high. Yeah, because we find out that like whoever
Speaker 4: has like castle money or Tom Yeah, like we don't
Speaker 4: really understand how, but like he has castle money, sure
Speaker 4: inheritage that's happened, right, Like it's like scary generational wealth.
Speaker 5: I guess it's tricky because I don't. Personally, I don't.
Speaker 4: It makes it for me, makes it just like hard
Speaker 4: to get attached to any of the characters if if
Speaker 4: they're in this kind of behavioral war. But it doesn't
Speaker 4: at least seem like it's a gendered decision where we
Speaker 4: know a lot about the male characters and we don't
Speaker 4: know about the women. We kind of just know nothing
Speaker 4: about anyone, but there are gendered elements to how we
Speaker 4: see women, and especially women who are not Carrie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was thinking about that where I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: why do Charles and Carrie like each other? Since we
Speaker 2: know so little about either of them and there is
Speaker 2: a scene where you could argue Charles is being funny
Speaker 2: and charming during his best man speech, and maybe that's
Speaker 2: part of what endears Carrie to him, But we don't
Speaker 2: have anything like that for Carrie for Charles to be
Speaker 2: endeared to carry.
Speaker 4: So it just seems I think if you think that
Speaker 4: weird joke about don't you want to get married? Is funny,
Speaker 4: then they crack each other up, then maybe I don't
Speaker 4: know I did understand why they Also, I'm not convinced
Speaker 4: that they're in love. I'm convinced that they're like really
Speaker 4: horny for each other and it's long distance and exciting,
Speaker 4: Like these two don't actually know each other. They've spent
Speaker 4: a lot of really sexually charged time together, so like
Speaker 4: whatever that can turn into love. But like when he
Speaker 4: first says I think I'm in love with you, I
Speaker 4: know that word as the audience supposed to believe it,
Speaker 4: but like if you've been alive long enough, you're like, well, no,
Speaker 4: you don't.
Speaker 2: He's known her, he hung out with her three times
Speaker 2: at that point.
Speaker 5: But that does happen. I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's very movie logic, but I'm never gonna question, like,
Speaker 4: why does someone think they're in love with nineteen ninety
Speaker 4: four Hugh Grant like it just makes sense, beautiful, And
Speaker 4: same with Andy McDowell like the I'm like, yeah, of
Speaker 4: course you think you're in love with her.
Speaker 3: Look, I think the movie is fundamental. Everyone's purpose in
Speaker 3: the movie for some reason, seems to be getting married.
Speaker 3: Like no one seems to have a personality alive or
Speaker 3: anything other than like, I'm trying to get married here.
Speaker 3: And that's why what I think what she says is
Speaker 3: not a joke. And I think the movie is like
Speaker 3: sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married.
Speaker 2: Again a concept that this movie invented.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married. So, like,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just was like, Oh, for these
Speaker 3: people who maybe have very little in terms of like
Speaker 3: problems or strife or conflict in their life, they just
Speaker 3: marry someone that they're like really horny for because they
Speaker 3: don't have anything else.
Speaker 4: So but then she is she horny for Hamish? Like again,
Speaker 4: I just feel like.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but she was horny for marriage.
Speaker 5: She's okay.
Speaker 4: So that was my a question I had about this
Speaker 4: movie that I'm like, it feels both progressive and regressive
Speaker 4: at the same time, because it is a sex positive movie,
Speaker 4: but everyone is obsessed with like legal marriage in the UK,
Speaker 4: and so it's like it just feels like these two
Speaker 4: things are sort of odd, and I think that maybe
Speaker 4: to some extent, that's what it's about. But the institution
Speaker 4: of marriage itself experiences really not a ton of pushback,
Speaker 4: other than at the very end when they realize, oh,
Speaker 4: we just don't want to get married.
Speaker 3: But that's why it's the twist, yeah, right, because everyone
Speaker 3: everyone gets married in this movie for the most part,
Speaker 3: Like Bernard and Lydia are like the most obvious is
Speaker 3: like Lydia is like, I'm not going to hook up
Speaker 3: with you, Bernard, You're a loser.
Speaker 2: And I'm not that desperate.
Speaker 3: And then they really drunk and they start snogging at
Speaker 3: the end of the night, which I kind of really
Speaker 3: like enjoy, I like enjoy those kind of developments of
Speaker 3: these secondary characters, and then they just like get married
Speaker 3: because clearly they love to fuck. And it's like the
Speaker 3: only reason, only justification anyone has in this movie to
Speaker 3: be with someone else is like the sex was bomb,
Speaker 3: and maybe we'd have a lot less problems if the
Speaker 3: only reason anyone got married was because it was like,
Speaker 3: I just want to fuck you. Oh, rest of time.
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you can do that for like you
Speaker 4: don't need to legally. Yeah, you're really right where it's
Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, and obviously that was something
Speaker 4: that existed in the nineties, but.
Speaker 5: It also just feels a little.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 4: It feels a little outdated in nineteen ninety four to
Speaker 4: suggest that, like you, I don't know, I know that
Speaker 4: the movie subverted at the end. It's just the premise
Speaker 4: is kind of bizarre to me.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, okay, I was trying to figure out what,
Speaker 2: if anything this movie is trying to say about sure,
Speaker 2: the institution of marriage, because the way it ends with
Speaker 2: the two main characters we've been following this whole time
Speaker 2: is Charles saying, let's not get married. I don't think
Speaker 2: I'm cut out for it, and she says, I do
Speaker 2: want to be with you, but not want to get married. Right,
Speaker 2: So I'm just like, okay, right, it seems like the
Speaker 2: movie is saying a committed relationship doesn't need to Coleman
Speaker 2: and I legally binding marriage. You don't have to get
Speaker 2: married to be happy. Sure, which I very much support that,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate when a movie puts forward a message
Speaker 2: like that. However, the way this movie handles that doesn't
Speaker 2: really work for me, because I'm not seeing how Charles
Speaker 2: or Carrie come to this realization, Like I'm not seeing
Speaker 2: much in the way of character growth or a character
Speaker 2: arc that leads them to this line of thinking. They
Speaker 2: just kind of like randomly decide it one day, and
Speaker 2: it honestly just feels like it's kind of tacked on
Speaker 2: at the end of the movie without feeling earned in
Speaker 2: any way. And then if this is the message of
Speaker 2: the movie of like a happy, healthy, romantic relationship does
Speaker 2: not have to lead to marriage, it almost feels like
Speaker 2: it's being undermined by the photomontage of like five different
Speaker 2: couples getting married. Yeah, and then the only ones that
Speaker 2: don't are Matthew and his new boyfriend because they legally
Speaker 2: cannot get married, and then Charles and Kerry because they've
Speaker 2: decided not to write, which again is like pretty reflective
Speaker 2: of real life. A lot of people do get married.
Speaker 2: And but like the ethos of this movie is really it's.
Speaker 4: Just weird, vague, it's weird, and it was worth saying
Speaker 4: I mean tremendously successful. It was oh, a surprise hit
Speaker 4: a budget of around three million pounds that made two
Speaker 4: hundred and eighteen million pounds.
Speaker 2: It was the highest grossing British film of the time,
Speaker 2: which is like four a time.
Speaker 5: Pretty wild. I don't know.
Speaker 4: It reminds me of I feel like the American version
Speaker 4: of this is my big fact Greek wedding, a surprise
Speaker 4: hit wedding movie and who can say why, also very
Speaker 4: reflective of their respective times. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: And then the other women in this friend group, Fiona
Speaker 4: I thought was quite interesting and whatever. I didn't love
Speaker 4: the joke they sent her character out on, but it
Speaker 4: just I don't know. We do get characters that I'm
Speaker 4: curious to know more about. Unfortunately, Charles and Carrie are
Speaker 4: not two of those characters. But Fiona, I felt like,
Speaker 4: is a pretty rich character who we because again we
Speaker 4: mostly know about her through the lens of like romance.
Speaker 4: But it was like, that's a very complicated dynamic you
Speaker 4: don't see very often, at least in this way where
Speaker 4: it's like she's in love with her friend, they find
Speaker 4: out and then they just have to sort of continue
Speaker 4: being friends.
Speaker 5: And I was.
Speaker 4: I guess I was like more curious about what her
Speaker 4: emotional journey was if the limitations on this movie are
Speaker 4: like we only care about like the romantic goals of
Speaker 4: these characters. And I really like Christin Scott Thomas, which
Speaker 4: is maybe a part of it. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I just thought, like, that's an interesting character who we
Speaker 4: only really scratch the surface of. Poor Henrietta is just
Speaker 4: like the subject of fat jokes, appears to have an
Speaker 4: active eating disorder. It seemed to be in a like
Speaker 4: really emotional like I think she's basically made out to
Speaker 4: be hysterical at multiple points for sure the plot. And
Speaker 4: so I think by the time that Charles marries her
Speaker 4: and breaks her heart, sure she gets the like nineties
Speaker 4: girl power punch, but I don't I think by then
Speaker 4: we've kind of been conditioned as the audience to like
Speaker 4: dismiss her and not care.
Speaker 2: We are rooting against them getting married, against them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not necessarily rooting against her, which is why
Speaker 4: she gets the punch in But I just I don't know.
Speaker 2: That just bummed me. It bummed me out, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And then Scarlett was a character who I'm like, she's
Speaker 2: she seems fun, she's quirky. There's a weird scene. I
Speaker 2: think it's the second wedding. She's a bridesmaid and part
Speaker 2: of her dress, like the back of her dress is
Speaker 2: open and it exposes her underwear. And I kept thinking, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be a big moment where someone notices
Speaker 2: it and starts laughing and she's super embarrassed and it
Speaker 2: humiliates the bride or something. But then nothing happens. It
Speaker 2: just cuts to the next scene.
Speaker 3: Which is funny because when she loses her like bo
Speaker 3: on her dress, he does say, don't worry, no one
Speaker 3: will notice that. Clearly they did.
Speaker 2: It, and they didn't even though her whole ass was
Speaker 2: hanging out. Yeah, whoa wild.
Speaker 3: She's a great character. I think she's fun.
Speaker 2: I thought she was super fun. She does surprise kiss
Speaker 2: a man and then say, don't let me drink too much.
Speaker 2: I'll get really flirty.
Speaker 4: Kate, I'm gonna hear you out. I liked Scarlet too.
Speaker 4: I thought she was the most like visually distinct, like
Speaker 4: she had style, she had like I liked her.
Speaker 3: She felt like she didn't fit in their rich friendship group,
Speaker 3: the rich person friendship group, like I don't think she
Speaker 3: made sense there, And so the impression I got was
Speaker 3: that she was like Charles's housemaid. But I like that
Speaker 3: she's like under the table telling this like child who there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's like a child she's telling who She's like the
Speaker 3: men I like, I like, they bonk me and then
Speaker 3: they leave me. And then the men that like me,
Speaker 3: I think a dweebs and I can't be bothered to
Speaker 3: bonk them. And she's sort of having this really adult
Speaker 3: conversation with the child under the table, which I really
Speaker 3: enjoy it. And then she's also the closest person we
Speaker 3: get to someone who having a job because she goes
Speaker 3: for a job interview at some sort of social store.
Speaker 3: Yeah that sells like latex PVC, like a.
Speaker 5: Very nineties way of describing a sex story.
Speaker 4: Be So first I was like it's a what and
Speaker 4: then you're like, oh, okay, I guess that she's just
Speaker 4: being British about.
Speaker 3: It, called spanks, and so she we know that like
Speaker 3: she at least looks to earn her money, which maybe
Speaker 3: the other these other people in the film, I don't
Speaker 3: get the impression they seem to earn money or need
Speaker 3: to earn money.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it's just like I I.
Speaker 4: The more we talk about this, like the nebulous nature
Speaker 4: of this friend group, like I just needed like a
Speaker 4: big chill kind of framing device. Just tell me they're
Speaker 4: friends from childhood, they went to school together.
Speaker 3: Give me something just to push people friends.
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess I just don't care about that,
Speaker 4: and maybe that's a barrier to entry with this movie.
Speaker 4: I'm like, Oh, I don't know, Scarlette's too cool for
Speaker 4: the movie.
Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, she's really cool and she seems like
Speaker 3: the most normal. I think there's a class thing where
Speaker 3: going on, and it's certain likely exemplified by the creepy
Speaker 3: man that's chasing Carrie in the beginning, because there's a
Speaker 3: bit when they're sat at the Boatman Pub and he's like,
Speaker 3: how did you know the guy? Like how do you
Speaker 3: know the guy who's wedding? It was Angus? He's like, oh,
Speaker 3: from university and he's like, oh, I knew him from
Speaker 3: s school. His brother buggered me senseless, which is quite
Speaker 3: an insane thing to have in a movie that I
Speaker 3: don't think is like very highly rated, but like, do
Speaker 3: you know are you familiar with no? No? Is?
Speaker 2: It like was he being sexually assaulted.
Speaker 3: Yes, so buggering in a British private school what we
Speaker 3: call the public schools because that's what they were historically called,
Speaker 3: but like in a British boarding school is when the
Speaker 3: older kids sexually assault the younger ones.
Speaker 2: I've heard of this as a thing that happens very
Speaker 2: commonly in British schools.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's kind of so normalized and accepted in
Speaker 3: our culture that this thing happens that you can throw
Speaker 3: it in a movie with like no, I don't know,
Speaker 3: like nothing around it, no summer, and no real acknowledgment
Speaker 3: that this man has probably been through something like.
Speaker 2: A throwaway joke.
Speaker 3: Almost Yeah, that's like a throwaway joke. And I find that,
Speaker 3: like I don't know, kind of really interesting that in
Speaker 3: one of our biggest movies, everyone's like, yeah, sure that
Speaker 3: just like someone said that, and then we just it's
Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
Speaker 4: There's also I was curious if either of you picked
Speaker 4: up on this of in Carrie's list, there's like one
Speaker 4: person who I thought it was maybe referencing an assault.
Speaker 4: I believe it was number eleven, and I think it
Speaker 4: was like some sort of distancing phrase of like an
Speaker 4: unpleasant surprise or like there's a there's a bizarre turn
Speaker 4: of phrase that I was like, is this nineties distancing
Speaker 4: talk for like an assault that she didn't yet kind
Speaker 4: of view as an assault. Yeah, there's a few things
Speaker 4: that feel extremely of the time, and Kate, Yeah, I
Speaker 4: didn't even have the language to pick up on that.
Speaker 5: That's wild.
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing, Like, like I get that
Speaker 3: they're all right, I think, but that situates for me
Speaker 3: that they're all incredibly posh people, and posh people don't
Speaker 3: necessarily need jobs, and that's why they've got time to
Speaker 3: go to like sixty five weddings, Like I don't know
Speaker 3: anyone who's got the time to do that more than right,
Speaker 3: And that's why they don't have personalities, because you don't
Speaker 3: need a personality if you've been born into money.
Speaker 2: Wow, bleak but true.
Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, a moment of silence for that.
Speaker 5: God.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean also worth noting that this is a
Speaker 2: profoundly white yes movie. Yeah, every one everywhere, in all
Speaker 2: of the scenes, at all the weddings and the funeral
Speaker 2: and that are taking place in and around London. Yeah,
Speaker 2: every single person is white.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is one black person in the whole movie,
Speaker 3: and it's just at the funeral, and it's just a
Speaker 3: cut to his face and he's doing a sort of
Speaker 3: pensive smile and that's it. And my mother's like, I
Speaker 3: love that black guy. And I'm like, sure.
Speaker 4: Representation when I guess we don't know any less about
Speaker 4: him than we do anyone else in so it doesn't Lastly,
Speaker 4: if he likes sex, then we know the same amount
Speaker 4: about him a.
Speaker 5: Sweet about everybody else.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I also picked up on that shot where
Speaker 4: you were like, and it's also in the eleventh hour
Speaker 4: of the movie, at.
Speaker 2: The very end.
Speaker 3: Yes, they're like, there's this black guy. He's also here.
Speaker 2: Don't worry, right, I want to talk about David Charles's brother.
Speaker 2: He is deaf. It did take me a while to
Speaker 2: figure out who he was to everyone, and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is I did at least in step with
Speaker 4: the rest of the movie where it does take you
Speaker 4: a while. It took me a while to figure out
Speaker 4: that they were brothers, right.
Speaker 3: They says so early on in the film that brother
Speaker 3: they do.
Speaker 2: But if you turn your head for one second, which
Speaker 2: I did quite often watching this movie because I I
Speaker 2: just kept checking out, you miss that, and it's not
Speaker 2: until about halfway through the movie where Charles goes to
Speaker 2: meet up with him and then promptly abandon him, but
Speaker 2: that you actually realize, oh, like, okay, these are the brothers.
Speaker 2: Here's the situation. Anyway, So he is he's a deaf character.
Speaker 2: He is played by a deaf actor, David Bauer. He
Speaker 2: studied at the British Theater of the Deaf. I want
Speaker 2: to share a quote from him from a BBC interview
Speaker 2: in twenty ten about this movie. He said, quote, Richard
Speaker 2: Curtis wanted an actor who was actually deaf in real
Speaker 2: life to play that role, which I think was particularly enlightened.
Speaker 2: People ask me why I gave up film acting. I
Speaker 2: didn't give it up. I just couldn't find the parts.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that one day deaf actors will be able
Speaker 2: to play all kinds of parts, not just deaf people. Unquote,
Speaker 2: which speaks to a conversation we've had many many times
Speaker 2: on the show before as far as disability representation. Oftentimes
Speaker 2: a disabled character will be played by an able bodied actor,
Speaker 2: you know, and all the problems inherent in that. So
Speaker 2: I was encouraged by the fact that he does have
Speaker 2: a few important moments in the movie, particularly at Charles's wedding,
Speaker 2: where he's the catalyst to putting an end to it
Speaker 2: and kind of saving these two characters from a marriage
Speaker 2: that would have been absolutely miserable for both of them.
Speaker 4: But still, I mean still firmly a side character which
Speaker 4: is not shock. I was reminded of the conversation we
Speaker 4: had around the holidays last year around actor Tyrone Giordano,
Speaker 4: who write plays I had to look it up because
Speaker 4: I do not remember the name of the characters in
Speaker 4: the family Stone, but he played Tadstone of courd Who
Speaker 4: can forget that the character's name of tad Stone. But
Speaker 4: a similar a movie that came out ten years later
Speaker 4: with you know, kind of a similar trajectory for the actor,
Speaker 4: where it was a deaf character played by a deaf
Speaker 4: actor who did not go on to work as extensively
Speaker 4: as he deserved to. Yeah, so I'm just tacking that
Speaker 4: on that ten years passed in that did not improve,
Speaker 4: but also in nineteen ninety four, it's that's a great
Speaker 4: precedent to set and I think one of the other
Speaker 4: kind of more subversive elements of this of this movie.
Speaker 3: I think it's so sweet as well that that woman like, well,
Speaker 3: she basically decides she thinks he's fit and then decides
Speaker 3: to learn sign language for him and then signs everything
Speaker 3: wrong a little bit. And that's quite funny.
Speaker 2: Which is again every single relationship in this movie where
Speaker 2: someone's like, oh, that person's hot, let me see if
Speaker 2: I can go have sex with them. Yeah, So it's
Speaker 2: not even cool to step with the rest of the movie.
Speaker 2: But I was really I thought it was like, really
Speaker 2: encouraging to see a non disabled character put in effort
Speaker 2: to learn a language so that they could communicate with
Speaker 2: a disabled character and then have that work out great
Speaker 2: for them because they seem to fall in love and
Speaker 2: get married.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that like it was. It's just presented. I
Speaker 4: think similarly in the way that I like how Carrie's
Speaker 4: attitudes towards sex for pleasure is presented. It's very matter
Speaker 4: of factly. The movie kind of doesn't comment on it.
Speaker 5: It just is. I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: How did you feel about the comments about Americans?
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I don't hear about that.
Speaker 5: I agree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing is if you talk to Americans,
Speaker 3: they're like no, no, correct, Yeah, that is how it is.
Speaker 3: I don't know, because there was quite a lot of like, well,
Speaker 3: when Scarlett falls in love with Chester and seemingly she
Speaker 3: just falls in love because he says his name's read right,
Speaker 3: and then she laughs at that for ages, and then
Speaker 3: she's like, wow, I'm in love with him.
Speaker 2: Basically there's a gun with a wind referenced and she's like, wow,
Speaker 2: we're in love now.
Speaker 4: So like, yeah, when when British people are bullying American people,
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's colonizers bullying colonizers. You're like, it's it's
Speaker 4: it's like neutral, it's neutral whatever. Yeah, yeah, we all
Speaker 4: wear cowboy hats whatever, cheerio.
Speaker 3: But maybe that depends on which American people were talking about,
Speaker 3: So we have to be sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess anyone who's like proud to be
Speaker 2: an American would take offense to Yeah, the jokes in
Speaker 2: this movie about that.
Speaker 4: But that's a yeah, I mean, that's a dog whistley.
Speaker 3: But that in itself is a problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, not to keep beating the dead horse of
Speaker 2: the of the maybe joke that Carrie does in the
Speaker 2: bedroom where she's like, we had sex, so now we
Speaker 2: have to get engaged and get married. I thought that
Speaker 2: might have been her playing into British people's perception of
Speaker 2: Americans where I don't know, I feel like a lot
Speaker 2: of people think that Americans are really like puritanical when
Speaker 2: it comes to sex.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I think that's why I read it as
Speaker 3: not a joke. But in okay, for a lot of
Speaker 3: British people, I think we think that Americans are quite
Speaker 3: quick to get married on the whole, Like there's a
Speaker 3: kind of cultural thing around it that like Americans would
Speaker 3: want to get engaged after set.
Speaker 4: But that's like, but everyone in this movie gets married
Speaker 4: after forty five seconds, So it's kind of like he's
Speaker 4: casting stones here.
Speaker 2: They're like, no, you're doing that.
Speaker 4: But also meanwhile, everyone's getting married after three.
Speaker 2: Months in this movie. Truly, I think that she is
Speaker 2: aware of that perception of Americans and played on it
Speaker 2: and made that joke. That's how I interpreted it.
Speaker 3: I think they don't even haven't even thought this through,
Speaker 3: and we're giving it so much depth, and I love
Speaker 3: that We're like, we're giving this woman like this is
Speaker 3: a really clever joke to make or something. But actually
Speaker 3: I don't know if at any point they thought this through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, perhaps not. I will say that this is a
Speaker 2: rare case of a woman co lead being paid more
Speaker 2: than the man even though she has less screen time.
Speaker 2: And I think it's just because Anty McDowell was more
Speaker 2: famous than Hugh Grant at the time. But she was
Speaker 2: paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars up front, while
Speaker 2: Hugh Grant was paid thirty five thousand British pounds, which
Speaker 2: would have been the equivalent of what like around fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars depending on the conversion rate at the time,
Speaker 2: So she was paid almost two hundred thousand dollars more
Speaker 2: than him.
Speaker 3: I'm really happy to hear that she was paid loads
Speaker 3: more for I would say, quite a lot less.
Speaker 2: Work, A lot less work. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 4: I love Antie McDowell rocks. I wish that they had
Speaker 4: written more of a part for her, but uh, a
Speaker 4: win for Andy McDowell, I feel is a win for
Speaker 4: us all.
Speaker 3: And in terms of like girl Boss feminism, maybe it's
Speaker 3: quite cool that she had a very small part and
Speaker 3: didn't have to do any character study or really act
Speaker 3: all that much and still get more money.
Speaker 4: I kind of I have to agree with you where
Speaker 4: it's like, there are certain times where I I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, you know, even if the part isn't great,
Speaker 4: a woman made a shitload of money and she didn't
Speaker 4: even really need to try.
Speaker 5: So there you go.
Speaker 3: Maybe Richard Curtis is the most feminist of us all.
Speaker 2: Feminist icon Richard Curtis. The last very quick thing I
Speaker 2: had in my notes was it seems like there are
Speaker 2: a couple agist jokes about an old man who I
Speaker 2: think makes like two appearances at different weddings, who like,
Speaker 2: we're meant to think that he's quote unquote senile.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'll just say.
Speaker 4: I was like, there were so many nineties tropes present
Speaker 4: that didn't even register for me.
Speaker 5: But you're you are absolutely right.
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that old man, that he was so funny.
Speaker 2: I like the man, but it's just that, like it's
Speaker 2: problem there's agism at his expense. I do, like, I
Speaker 2: think it's funny when someone says to him, like Brider
Speaker 2: Groom when he's like entering the church and he's like,
Speaker 2: it's perfectly obvious that I'm neither, and I'm like, that's
Speaker 2: actually pretty funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if that's like senility as much
Speaker 4: as like a different, more nebulous trope of like old
Speaker 4: people don't understand what young people are saying.
Speaker 2: Well, I thought it was implied that he's senile, because
Speaker 2: the other time we see him earlier is when Charles
Speaker 2: says like, hello, nice to meet you. I'm Charles, and
Speaker 2: then he goes, no, you're not. Charles died twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: Do you think I don't know my own brother.
Speaker 4: I checked that up to British. I've checked that up
Speaker 4: to I don't know. I was just like, people are
Speaker 4: so weird, like, okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought too cracking jokes basic.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, the one thing, the one joke that I
Speaker 2: did think was funny in the entire Sorry, sorry everyone, Sorry,
Speaker 2: you're not sorry. I'm not sorry. Okay. It's at the funeral,
Speaker 2: Charles and Tom are talking about love and relationships and oh,
Speaker 2: well they ever find someone and you know, and then
Speaker 2: Tom says, I just hope to meet a nice woman
Speaker 2: and settle down. It worked for my parents, well apart
Speaker 2: from the divorce. And I'm like, that's pretty funny, but
Speaker 2: otherwise I was struggling.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so funny. I thought there were so many
Speaker 3: great jokes.
Speaker 2: I maybe I just maybe I just don't get this,
Speaker 2: this brand of British humor.
Speaker 3: Yeah. What about when he accidentally in the beginning is
Speaker 3: like to that guy where he's like, ah, she's no
Speaker 3: longer my girlfriend. Oh and then he's mardon, oh, no worries. Yeah, like,
Speaker 3: no worries. She's was shagging someone else. And then he
Speaker 3: was like, she's now my wife.
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, I was okay with that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like, the women of this world are cheaters.
Speaker 3: The women in this world are like big sluts. But
Speaker 3: everyone's here for it, I think, which is I think
Speaker 3: quite progressive.
Speaker 2: I'd have to agree, Yeah, well does it Does this
Speaker 2: movie pass the Bechdel test? No, No it doesn't. No,
Speaker 2: it doesn't.
Speaker 4: And it's not even close, because, as with most movies
Speaker 4: that there's a few cool.
Speaker 2: Women in that it is written by a man.
Speaker 4: They are like, almost implausibly kept away from each other.
Speaker 2: They are never there.
Speaker 4: There is one that I saw people arguing passing at
Speaker 4: the very beginning, where they are insulting the first bride's
Speaker 4: wedding dress. They say, she looks like I'm arangue. But
Speaker 4: I would say, by our standard, it is not a
Speaker 4: meaningful exchange of dialogue, and it's the only time these
Speaker 4: characters talk.
Speaker 3: So the only conversation I'd noticed that was between two
Speaker 3: people who I think were both women was when Fiona's
Speaker 3: talking to that old lady at the reception of the
Speaker 3: second wedding, and the old lady says, are you married?
Speaker 3: And she says, no, I'm in love with someone, but
Speaker 3: he's not in love with me, and until I get
Speaker 3: over that, and then she says, or like before she
Speaker 3: says that, she says, are you a lesbian? And I
Speaker 3: guess asking someone if they're a lesbian is kind of
Speaker 3: a conversation not about a man.
Speaker 2: I'd agree, yeah, but.
Speaker 3: It lasts for about ten seconds where she says, yeah,
Speaker 3: are you a lesbian? She says, good, greateus. What makes
Speaker 3: you say that? And then she said, it's just a
Speaker 3: more interesting question to ask than like, oh, I'm sorry
Speaker 3: you haven't found the right man, and then she sort
Speaker 3: of reveals that she was a lesbian briefly for fifteen.
Speaker 5: Minutes in Uni Yes, yeah, which is yeah.
Speaker 4: Obviously her progressive way of that was how people talked
Speaker 4: about it in the ninety shore. Yeah, we already talked
Speaker 4: about how queerness is and isn't portrayed in this You know,
Speaker 4: there are so many things that I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: that actually is a Bechtel cast thing to talk about.
Speaker 5: And I just my eyes were glazed.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sure we're missing stuff.
Speaker 5: Sorry, we're being such haters. Sorry to the UK because.
Speaker 3: And you should be sorry. This is a national film.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is wild how.
Speaker 4: It is like one of those things where it's like
Speaker 4: I know that people in the US have obviously a
Speaker 4: lot of people have seen and liked it, but it
Speaker 4: is just like not a classic in the way that
Speaker 4: it is in the UK.
Speaker 3: It feels like such a classic from my childhood.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's unfortunately for the UK, does not pass
Speaker 4: the Bechtel test by our.
Speaker 2: True But what about our nipple scale, where we create
Speaker 2: the movie on a scale of zero zero to five nipples,
Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I'll give it
Speaker 2: one nibble, maybe even one and a half for a
Speaker 2: few of the things we talked about. The movie is
Speaker 2: allowing women to be sexually open and interested and just
Speaker 2: having sex with a bunch of people in the movies,
Speaker 2: not judging them for that it has. And again this
Speaker 2: is like Crumbs, but it's it has a deaf character
Speaker 2: played by a deaf actor. It has a queer relationship
Speaker 2: that reflects that I think, like realistically reflects how it
Speaker 2: could have been at the time where they were in
Speaker 2: the closet, even to their closest friends. But when it
Speaker 2: is revealed that they were in a queer relationship, their
Speaker 2: friends still seem to be supportive. But it also does
Speaker 2: the bury your gaye trope by killing one of the
Speaker 2: two queer characters. So so I'm going to take it
Speaker 2: down to one nipple. Again, such an aggressively white movie,
Speaker 2: no racial diversity whatsoever. The smiles but sorry, sorry, sorry, yes,
Speaker 2: don't erase him. Yeah, my apologies. Yeah, one nipple. I'll
Speaker 2: give it to Scarlet because I would have liked more
Speaker 2: of the movie to be about her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll meet you. I'll meet you at like one
Speaker 4: point two five.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think that this movie, Like, I don't
Speaker 4: want to take away the things that this movie does
Speaker 4: that are genuinely subversive and interesting for their time, having
Speaker 4: a woman who has sex for pleasure and a sex positive,
Speaker 4: having a gay couple that is not just heavily coded
Speaker 4: as we're so used to seeing in the nineties, or
Speaker 4: as like primarily a sassy sidekick. Although the barrier gaze
Speaker 4: thing really really really bothers me in this movie, I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, the funeral, I.
Speaker 5: Just know it. I just know it.
Speaker 4: And sure enough, and yeah, I think every we've basically
Speaker 4: discussed everything. So I'm going to give it one point
Speaker 4: twenty five and I'm going to give them to my
Speaker 4: friend Andy McDowell.
Speaker 5: I love her smile.
Speaker 2: Hmm, Kate, how about you.
Speaker 3: I think i'd give it too, on the grounds that
Speaker 3: I think actually the only characters that really show any
Speaker 3: deeper feeling other than like, I married this person because
Speaker 3: they bang good were the gay characters, because like that,
Speaker 3: the heartbreak of that funeral, I think is really poignant,
Speaker 3: and I think it's sort of like it's revealed at
Speaker 3: the same time it' suddenly revealed that these people were
Speaker 3: in love, and I think that's quite I do think
Speaker 3: that was probably quite a progressive thing to do for
Speaker 3: that society in nineteen ninety four Britain, for sure, and
Speaker 3: I think that is really good. And then the second nipple,
Speaker 3: I think is for I just love the fact that
Speaker 3: Annie McDowell got paid so much money to basically do
Speaker 3: bugger all and I'm really here for that. And once
Speaker 3: I knew that, I'm like, Okay, great work. I'd like
Speaker 3: to see more. I'd like to see more representation of
Speaker 3: people that don't seemingly have jobs, including the actors. I'd
Speaker 3: like that. I want people to have money, zero work,
Speaker 3: and that feels, you know, progressive and good and socialist.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybebe this is a socialist.
Speaker 3: It's actually a communist film, and it's hard to see
Speaker 3: because they're all so posh and they're all like seemingly
Speaker 3: landed gentry, but no one has a job.
Speaker 2: A communist movie about the bourgeois class.
Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of, I guess.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, nipples.
Speaker 3: I think I would give it two nipples. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know. I love Scarlet's character. I think there's like,
Speaker 3: there's so many characters in it that I do really enjoy.
Speaker 3: They're not the main characters, but they feel minor to
Speaker 3: this movie.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I will give my nipples to I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe Lydia for just getting with Bernard even though she's settled,
Speaker 3: but he's really good and bad. It turns out so true.
Speaker 3: I'm happy for her.
Speaker 2: We're happy for her.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, Kate, thank you so much for joining us,
Speaker 4: and sorry that we shit all over a movie that
Speaker 4: the entire country lies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we will be. I will be saying something to
Speaker 3: the Home Office. I don't know who does our visas.
Speaker 2: But I guess Oh yeah, we're don't ban me. I
Speaker 2: have to come watch Paddington the Musical again, although it
Speaker 2: is coming to Broadway, so.
Speaker 3: Ah is it?
Speaker 5: It is?
Speaker 3: Paddington gets around.
Speaker 2: He's kind of like Andy McDowell's character in that way,
Speaker 2: except Paddington is asexual.
Speaker 5: It's true, it's true.
Speaker 2: Kate. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me come.
Speaker 2: Back any time and tell us about your fringe show
Speaker 2: and lug anything else you want to.
Speaker 3: Plug bainly that comes. If you're an Edinburgh this summer
Speaker 3: at the Fringe Festival, please come to my show. It's
Speaker 3: at seventeen fifty five, that's five minutes to six at
Speaker 3: the Voodoo Rooms.
Speaker 2: Thank you for clarifying.
Speaker 3: And it's free and you can just walk in and come.
Speaker 3: And it's about what it's like to be a good
Speaker 3: time gal like Andy McDowell and a feminist during these times,
Speaker 3: which are the apocalypse times, and how maybe I should
Speaker 3: have been a chadwife instead, But I don't know. If
Speaker 3: anything tells you that being a slash is good. It's
Speaker 3: full weddings and a funeral, that's true.
Speaker 5: It's true.
Speaker 4: We'll always have four weddings in a funeral. Thank you
Speaker 4: so much for trining us. I wish, I wish I
Speaker 4: could see the show have a great run. I know
Speaker 4: you always do.
Speaker 2: And then you can follow us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: You can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon, where for
Speaker 2: five dollars a month you get two bonus episodes every month,
Speaker 2: always based on an amazing genius theme, and then you
Speaker 2: also get access to our back catalog of around two
Speaker 2: hundred bonus episodes. What a bargain, truly.
Speaker 4: And with that, let's go get married or die?
Speaker 2: Sounds great?
Speaker 3: Two options?
Speaker 2: Bye bye, bye bye.
Speaker 4: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
Speaker 4: produced by me Jamie Loft and me Kitlyn Durrante.
Speaker 2: The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.
Speaker 5: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?
Speaker 2: That's me? And our logo and merch and all of
Speaker 2: our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus ever
Speaker 2: heard of her? Oh My God?
Speaker 4: And our theme song, by the way, was composed by
Speaker 4: Mike Kaplan.
Speaker 2: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.
Speaker 4: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
Speaker 4: Aristotle Acevedo.
Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash
Speaker 2: Spectel Cast