WEBVTT - Iran's Budding Tech Scene Fears Trump's Next Move 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.840 In May two thousand sixteen, I took a trip to Zurich. 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.080 I joined executives from all over Europe, the US, and 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.520 Canada who were there to talk about Iran. For years 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.880 around was isolated from the rest of the world. Foreign 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:17.000 companies had serious limitations around doing business there, which meant 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.599 that often they did no business there at all. But 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:26.119 that changed in today, after two years of negotiations, the 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:30.840 United States, together were international partners, has achieved something that 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:35.600 decades of animosity has not, a comprehensive long term deal 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.680 with Iran that will prevent it from obtaining a nuclear weapon. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.680 Sanctions were lifted in January last year. When the sanctions 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.519 were lifted, then we started really having a lot of 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.720 excitement inside the whole startup world. This is Fuzzy Amir 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:57.880 Sole Money, founder of Ku, an online retailer selling baby products. 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.320 I first met Futty at that gathering of exact patives 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.920 in Zurich. I saw her again in September. Her story 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.679 stayed with me because the end of sanctions was a 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.240 big deal for Iranian startup founders. We were finally going 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:17.040 to access some real funding sources, and so we had 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.080 a lot of meetings with foreign investors who were really 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:27.280 excited with this country fut He thought the lifting of 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.240 sanctions with market turning point for the growth of her 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.720 business and the broader tech industry in Iran. At the time, 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.320 Kodak who was talking to a Swiss fund about a 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:41.400 potential investment of a million dollars. But just as the 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:46.200 sanctions lifted, one presidential candidate halfway around the world was 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.080 attacking the deal. The Iranians are very good negotiators. The 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.640 Persians are always great negotiators. They are laughing at us 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.560 back in Iran. I would have made a deal, not 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.200 from desperation. I would have doubled and tripled up the sanctions, 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.760 and I would have made a much better deal. Of course, 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.880 this candidate went on to win the US presidency, and 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.080 his victory spooked a lot of potential foreign investors in Iran, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.240 like the Swiss investors for he was talking to. It 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.760 took a well, it took a few months before it 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.840 really you could really feel that the interest had dryed out. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.000 Now things might get even worse, as President Trump has 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.160 stuck with the heartline approach that he promised, and tensions 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.280 between the US and Iran have escalated any day now, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.760 Trump could trigger a series of events that would cause 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.640 the US to reimpose sanctions, and that could isolate Iran 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:49.440 from the world once again. Hi m a kite and 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.160 I'm the Dan Necessary and this week Undercrypted, we're taking 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.360 a look at Iran and what the rising political tensions 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.360 could mean for the country's budding taxing. In recent years, 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.720 Iran has been helped by your more moderate political leader, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.360 President has San Rohani, who was elected in two thousand thirty. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.120 Then came the nuclear deal and the lifting of sanctions. 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.680 These changes have fostered a more open business climate, and 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.200 Iran has seen dozens of startups appear, some of them 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.200 even getting funding from international investors. But if the US 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.240 chooses to reimpose sanctions, a lot could change and that 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.600 would have wide ranging implications for ordinary Iranians who just 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:40.520 gotten used to life in the digital economy. So the 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.880 entrepreneur Facty is Iranian, but spent most of her life abroad. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.600 She grew up in France, went to Columbia Business School 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.440 and worked in mergers and acquisitions at Morgan Stanley in London. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.200 Then in two thousand nine she took time off from 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.760 Morgan Stanley to have a baby during that time, a 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.960 level to Iran a few times uh and had the 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.200 difficult experience of trying to find baby products from my kids. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.680 You have the huge traffic inside the city. There's a 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.920 lot of small shops. In France, she said, most of 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.680 the retail space was organized retail, but in Iran it 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:23.880 was the opposite seventy where mom and pop shops and 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.520 Fatty was used to shopping online, but she soon discovered 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.160 that wasn't really an option in Tehran. Around the economy 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.039 mostly had been closed to the world for a decade. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.480 As a result, there was very little money from outside 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.919 investors to fund startups, and companies like Amazon, Facebook, and 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.640 Twitter were blocked. And you know, Tehran is a gigantic 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.120 city of twelve million North Carolina. Is that the foothills 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.800 of the Albows Mountains, with it's cooler temperatures and cleaner air. 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.960 It's where the more affluent choose to live. The more 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.799 south you go, though, and the more ends busy and polluted. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.039 The city becomes a twelve mile avenue links north to 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:11.920 south Tehran. But here's the thing. Despite highways, dedicated bus lines, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:16.040 and efficient subway lines, downtown Tehran is still often jammed 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:21.520 with cars and hijacked by spot In Iran, for hundreds 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.440 of years, commercial life has been focused around the buzz aar, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.920 which is this marketplace of merchant family businesses. You realize 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.080 that this retail space is very fragmented and there's a 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.920 lot of small shops and no major organized retail right. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.240 So my first reaction was to think, Okay, this market 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.560 has to be consolidated. Futty wasn't the only one to 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.480 see the huge opportunity for technology to organize and expand 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:51.120 Iran's retail sector. I've been reporting stories from Iran for 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.599 more than a decade, and in the last two to 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.760 three years alone, I've seen some drastic changes. A couple 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.520 of years ago, the teh Run started seeing was still 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.960 a phenomenon on the margins with a handful of vcs 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.760 and a bunch of young Iranian founders. Now the impact 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.159 of the tech community is much more visible. Some notable 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:16.000 startups include snap, which is Iran's version of Uber, and Dishkala, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.320 which is kind of like the local Amazon. These companies 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.120 have become part of everyday life in the capital. For example, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.720 I spoke to one of the security guards at a 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.039 shopping center in central Tehran. His name is Reza Hasani 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.039 and he lives in Kadah, just outside the capitol. Before 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.400 he would use a combination of buses and metro to 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.560 make it to work. With Snap, he treats himself sometimes 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.640 because it's half the price of a normal cap Most 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.560 people around me use it, my dad, my brothers, my sisters, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.039 my aunts, whoever I suggested to their using whoever I 0:06:55.080 --> 0:07:03.839 suggested to, They're happy with it. My parents used Snap. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.160 They have learned. The first couple of times is difficult, 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.720 but I kept showing them and now they're easier with it. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:18.680 Reza showed me he spooned so I could see the 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:24.240 iteena reas he had saved on his parents phone. In there. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.800 It has an option you choose that and it saves 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.640 the trips you take. So I saved for them route 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.400 one and two and three, my house, my brother's house, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.000 my younger brother's house, my sister's house. My mom used 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.920 to say, what is this electronic world? What are these 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.920 mobile phones in the hand of kids? But since I've 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.320 showed her Snap, she says, this one thing at least 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:55.760 is good. She's happy with it. So you have ordinary 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.680 Iranians getting familiar with the convenience of technology. Iran is 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.280 also a country of eighty million and some seventy arounder 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.040 the age of thirty five. What Futty also saw was 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.360 a lot of people potentially interested in baby products. For me, 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:18.680 the opportunity in this retail market were huge, Um, and 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.240 I was ready to take a chance to go back 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.760 in the country and maybe build, I mean build an 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.960 e commerce company. Futty had lived most of her life abroad. 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.240 She looked for a partner who knew the country and 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.040 the culture. When Fotty called me with the idea, and 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.160 I just could not resist working with her and the 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.160 idea because Peo both already had our first children. This 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.320 is Lord and gold Cheny, who happens to have the 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.160 same name as me. She's Fotty's business partner. We knew 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.480 the Hassele's moms had to go through shopping with a 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.800 little kid, driving in traffic of Tehran for hours, um 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.920 with a screaming child at the back. At the time, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:00.800 in twelve, Iran was still under sanctions Press Senate Rohaney 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.880 wasn't empowered yet, Ivan had limits on its oil exports, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.880 Its banking system was cut off from the international payment 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:12.200 system swift and few Western companies were involved, and that 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.880 was taking its toll on the economy. Inflation picked at 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.480 GDP was shrinking and the national currency had lost a 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.280 third of its value compared to the dollar. It was 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.000 it was a big question to know if we were 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.000 actually going to launch the product or not because the 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.280 prices were fluctuating so quickly. I mean, the prices of 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:37.120 product tripled during that year, right, So being an internet 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.679 e commerce based company, you always had to have the 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.040 updated prices on on the website. We would have needed 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.880 to change the prices every two weeks on four thousand, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.680 five thousand products. So obviously that's a really tough environment 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.200 in which launches startup. The election of President Rohaney changed everything. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.640 The election of Faster and Rohaney no have commers a 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.319 surprise to many result this election would be much more fragmented, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.880 but it's not a surprise to so many of his supporters. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.520 They voted for change, they voted for hope, and although 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.080 it's a little bit earlier, they're already saying goodbye to 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.160 the current president. As soon as he was elected in 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.640 two thousand thirteen, he made it clear that priorities were 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:25.120 to stabilize the currency market, control inflation, and negotiate with 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:29.599 world powers to get the sanctions lifted. Prices started stabilizing 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.400 around two thousand thirteen, and we started getting signals from 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.160 the market in two thousand thirteen that basically things were 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.320 settling down, that the market was getting more stable, and 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.480 on the other side, that the customers were back into 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.000 I mean, customer confidence was higher and they were back 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.120 into purchasing products. And that's basically when we started to 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:56.199 launch the business in Iran in two thousand thirteen, e 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.880 commerce was still a novel concept. Fautian Ladan were trying 0:10:59.880 --> 0:11:03.240 to work with importers, including the buzz Aar, which remember 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.920 is the powerful traditional marketplace. We had a very tough 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.560 first year, and the problem was getting the suppliers to 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:16.600 trust us to have their products being sold online. They 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.040 did not want to sell it or create a competition 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.440 for their physical shops, so basically took us a while 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.800 to try and educate them, to take them through the 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:28.080 whole concept of marketplace and what's happening internationally with e 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.920 commerce businesses. In a way, those traditional business owners turned 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.280 out to be right. E commerce websites have created competition 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:42.760 for their main businesses. The market is going in that direction, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.680 Instagram businesses, e commerce, it's going towards internet market. I 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.200 really think Digicala sells as much as this entire shopping center. 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.800 That how much they sell. This is Hasha your bobboy, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.079 a salesman in a computer accessory shop, and the company 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.880 he referred to, Digicala, is the big online retailer in Ivan, 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.200 sort of like Amazon. Kasha Year says he often has 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.160 kids walk into his shop, ask about the price of 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.440 something and say it's cheaper to buy this on Diga. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.439 We are businessmen. We don't want the customer to leave 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.600 the shop. Sometimes we have even sold a product without 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:25.120 making a profit, just so the customer doesn't leave empty handed. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.559 We have no choice. We got to compete, Hashaer says, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.520 even though they owned the shop and have been in 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:37.320 business forever, Digkala has become a nuisance to them. I 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.640 think in a few years people won't even shop like this, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.200 like come and walk around here in the shopping center. 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:49.079 But then Hasha told me he shops online himself. I 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.280 bought a shaver once. It's not bad at all. To 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.040 be honest, you said, at home, drink your cup of tea, 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.640 choose your product, they send it home, and even above 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.000 a certain price, it's free delivery. Yes, why not? Unfortunately, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:10.840 m H. When you ask Iran's tech founders about the 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.480 various challenges they face, the one issue they all talk 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.280 about is access to funding. Fatty and Laddan launched Kuduku 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.040 with their own money in and two years later they 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.920 started looking for their first infusion of cash. It seemed 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.319 like a good time. That year, the nuclear deal went through, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.760 which meant that the sanctions were going to be lifted. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.520 After the Iran Deal, things changed. A lot of foreign 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:43.040 investors got very serious about Iran and they started looking 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.079 into the market. They were receiving weekly, on a weekly basis, 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.600 phone calls and emails. Fatty and Laddan had plans. They 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.000 wanted to boost their marketing and partnerships with local hospitals. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.439 They hope to expand into accessories for women and home decoration. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.080 But they had no idea that the business climate was 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:12.640 about to change. Okay, so let's past forward to the 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.360 nuclear deal had been agreed to, the sanctions were mostly gone, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.120 and Fatty and Ladan were fielding all kinds of calls 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.440 from foreign investors who wanted to learn more about their business. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.640 Some of these investors had even sent them term sheets, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.440 which is this document outlining the terms of investment. It's 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.840 what gets the ball rolling for the two sides to 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.320 sign a final agreement. For Fati and La Dan. It 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.760 wasn't just their money that they were excited about, and 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.760 the foreign investors are the ones that actually understand what 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.200 it takes for an e commerce business to escape the 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:53.080 money requirements and also other restrictions and requirements that are 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.320 needed for an e commerce business to become the Amazona 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.920 dig you call us of this world. But then Trump 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.040 are elected and what seemed like these dune deals fell apart. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.760 Foreign investors opted to wait in this new world of uncertainty. 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.040 When you're an entrepreneur, being an entrepreneur as a roller coaster, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:18.960 so you have you have down moments and up moments 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.240 all the time. Right, it's a real roller coaster. Today, 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.920 Fatty and London are in tact with local investors. They 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.760 said they've had to scale back their ambitions, but they 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.400 are confident that they'll be able to raise enough to 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:39.200 keep going. It's not just Fatia da Dan who are 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:45.320 struggling in this new climate. Take for example, here returned 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.640 to your run in two thousand eleven at the height 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:51.680 of sanctions to launch netback, a bargain site similar to 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.320 group On. We were seeing the world and you could 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.160 see that this this thing is going to happen sometimes, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.720 I mean it was clear. I think the people who 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.200 who believed in this industry that this is going to happen. 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.120 Sometimes we didn't know when today at the result is 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.680 at the head of an umbrella company that includes five startups, 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.640 including net Barrack. The nuclear deal which lifted the sanctions 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.680 helped his business grow. There was this way of Parners 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.239 coming to Iran. They told Iran is going to change drastically. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.160 Ali Reza says he contacted a German fund that had 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.160 made an investment in a partner company a year and 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.440 a half ago, but after Trump's election the answer was different. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.800 I'm not sure. Let me think about it. I think 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:44.360 Trump's administration had some negative effects and the people's hope 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.360 of things going yeah much more faster. He's a very 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.480 uncertain person. I mean you cannot predict his behavior for 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.360 the next week. So that the companies want to come 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.560 to your and they want to look at their next 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.200 ten years so open they see that there is this uncertainty, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.960 they will have more doubts. And if you're not totally 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.600 sure where the sanctions stand at the moment, you're not 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.119 the only one. There have been new twists to the 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.040 story every day right now. The sanctions that were lifted 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.320 with designing of the nuclear deal still remain lifted, but 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.280 that might not last long. Most recently, Trump went to 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.639 the UN to try to convince you as allies, to 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.439 renegotiate the nuclear agreement. European leaders didn't budge, insisting on 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.840 keeping with the original deal, and Iran has said it 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.040 can walk away from the agreement if other countries push 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:44.080 for renegotiations too. Trump now faces an impending deadline. You 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.080 have to decide whether they declare that Iran has been 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.199 complying with the terms of the nuclear agreement. If he 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.400 says that Iran has not complied, the U S Congress 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.280 would have sixty days to consider imposing back sanctions on 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:02.359 Iran and even putting aside these fundraising concerns. Building a 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.920 startup in Iran presents its own set of challenges. For example, 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.040 Facebook and Twitter, or band in Iran, although many officials 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.720 use them and it's easy to get hold of epns, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.320 and even though most of the sanctions are still lifted, 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.320 there are some that remain. That's meant that Iranians can't 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.639 access cloud providers like Amazon Web Services, which makes things 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.360 particularly hard for internet startups there. More recently, Apple decided 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.679 to remove some Iranian apps sitting trade sanctions enforced by 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.520 the U S Office of Foreign Assets Control, and that 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.680 included some of the popular apps like Snap, the white 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.760 hailing app. We mentioned earlier the mistake that I think 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:48.600 most of the business people make about Iran. They want 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.560 the good safety. That's Ali Reza again. We have learned 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.040 in business school that when you have a high risk, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.240 you have a high retain. When there is a little risk, yeah, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.960 you have a low return. So you cannot have a 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.000 high retain and a low risk. Iran is a high risk, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:09.880 high return country and we believe in its potential. It's 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.399 this mentality that has prompted many Iranians like Fatty and 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.520 Alireza to be turned to Iran and share their knowledge. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.200 When I look at what was the sort of pool 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.919 of talent and the amount of information which existed in 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.920 all the people. Like four years ago campaign to now, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:34.240 there has been much more training and talent in the country. 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.879 So when people come they bring Even if they start 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:40.760 their own company, they start training other people inside their company, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.680 and these people will go to other companies and the 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.040 information is shared slowly. The government of Iran Centrist President 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.720 Hassan Rouhani has been supportive of the tech industry. It's 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.240 under Ruhani that three G and four G internet appeared 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.919 and expanded. Before that, the internet was very slow. Ruhani's 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:05.440 government has also invited Iranians abroad to bring their creativity 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.480 and ideas back to their own country. I met a 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.000 guy called mohammadres as Ali. He wants the tech Russell 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.840 website in Iran, which he likes to refer to as 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.840 the Iranian Tech Lunch, and he said he and his 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.160 colleagues regularly received emails from Iranian studying or working abroad. 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.480 They are assessing the market to try and be persuaded 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.080 that this is a good place to come back to 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.399 because abroad the market is already mature. The chance to 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.680 stay there set up a successful startup is very low. Here, 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.920 the space is untouched. Many are seeing this and want 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:47.520 to do something of course, whether these Iranians are brought 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.720 actually come back home depends on what happens to the 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.560 nuclear deal and the sanctions and how foreign investors and 0:20:54.640 --> 0:21:00.240 executives respond. For now, many European companies, including multinational always 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.560 like to tell and Siemens have taken chances on Iran. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.280 But if the US reapplies some of the economic sanctions 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:12.159 on Iran, that could really put international investors off. Sanctions 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.720 come with a lot of rules for companies that still 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.480 want to do business with that country, and most people 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.200 don't want the hassle of having to comply with such 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:25.680 a complicated settle US. In the meantime, for forty and 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.960 La Dan, it's about taking it one step at a time. 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:36.200 This kind of setback forces you to become better, right, 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.680 and to become more lean and make your company more efficient, 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.360 right to to become successful. Right. So I think that's 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:49.320 where we're standing today. We must see setbacks in the 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.199 next um three or four years, and three years, I 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.880 would say, but that doesn't matter. We're as Iran, yes 0:21:55.000 --> 0:22:00.960 we're We don't look into um ops downs and changes 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:06.320 short term because we've had we've had a royal coaster 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.200 of changes in the country, but we usually have more 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:31.080 of a long term prospect, so I'm very hopeful. And 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.440 that's it for this week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks for listening. 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:36.800 Before we let you go, just a quick note. On 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.320 last week's episode about Stands Sack Company. We said that 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:45.240 Randy Shekeler is the CTO of Stance, but in fact 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.600 he oversees quality assurance. We'd love to hear what you 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.320 think of the show. You can email us at Decrypted 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:54.920 at Bloomberg got let or I'm on Twitter at the 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.520 Dawn Massari and I'm at aki Eto seven. If you 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.360 haven't already, please take a moment to rate and review 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.720 our show. It's the best way to help us get 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.560 the show in front of new listeners. This episode was 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:11.200 produced by Pia Gatcary, Liz Smith, and Magnus Hendrickson. We'll 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:12.000 see you next week.