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Speaker 1: On this episode of news World. First, I want to

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Speaker 1: wish you and your family of very happy Thanksgiving. We're

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Speaker 1: celebrating our national Thanksgiving holiday this year by talking about

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Speaker 1: a topic that I think is fun and entertaining, and

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Speaker 1: that is the history of the presidential turkey pardon and

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Speaker 1: how turkeys get to the White House. When did this

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Speaker 1: annual tradition begin, Who was the first president to officially

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Speaker 1: pardon a turkey, what happens the two turkeys who are pardoned,

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Speaker 1: and where do they end up here to talk about

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Speaker 1: the history of the presidential turkey pardon, I'm really pleased

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Speaker 1: to welcome my guest, Joel Brandenberger, President and CEO of

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Speaker 1: the National Turkey Federation. Joel, welcome, Thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Newsk Thank you appreciate it, and happy Thanksgiving to you

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Speaker 2: all as well.

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm curious from a turkey standpoint, this has got

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Speaker 1: to be the peak moment of the year.

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Speaker 2: I would assume it is certainly the one that has

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Speaker 2: the most logistical challenges, but it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: We enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: I've been to thirty of these now and it is

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Speaker 2: never boring.

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Speaker 3: It is always exciting, and today was no exception.

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Speaker 1: Full disclosure are for a second. I understand that you

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Speaker 1: and my wife, Callista, served on the Agriculture Committee in

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Speaker 1: the House together.

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Speaker 2: We may have very briefly, but I really got to

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Speaker 2: know her when I was doing the day to day

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Speaker 2: lobbying for this organization and she was the chief clerk

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Speaker 2: of the committee.

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Speaker 1: She remembers very fondly the relationship with the National Turkey Federation.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things about the Egg Committee is

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Speaker 1: it's actually, in a sense, a happy committee because it's

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Speaker 1: dealing with opportunities.

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Speaker 3: To eat exactly.

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Speaker 1: So now you've actually spent thirty three years with the Federation,

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Speaker 1: including seventeen years as president and CEO. That's really a

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Speaker 1: pretty remarkable contribution to something which is annually one of

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Speaker 1: our major industries. What drew you to be director of

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Speaker 1: Public Affairs and to work on the Turkey Federation's business.

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Speaker 2: I've been working on Capitol Hill of courses we just mentioned,

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Speaker 2: and as you know better than anyone, the hours there

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Speaker 2: are not particularly predictable. I had a young son wanted

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Speaker 2: to spend more time with, and so I was looking

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Speaker 2: for something off the hill, and a friend who also

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Speaker 2: went to Texas Tech as I did mentioned this to

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Speaker 2: me and said it was a good opportunity, a lot

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Speaker 2: of room to grow the program, and so I gave

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Speaker 2: it a shot. And what I discovered very quickly is

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Speaker 2: the members are phenomenal. Not every trade association can say

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Speaker 2: that they've got members that are really truly supportive, where

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Speaker 2: the members who compete fiercely in the marketplace work collaboratively

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Speaker 2: on public policy and marketing issues together. It was a

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Speaker 2: really really good environment. And I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: friends at other trade associates, and while they may enjoy

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Speaker 2: their jobs, I've heard tales that we just don't hear here.

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Speaker 2: Over at this place, we've got such supporter members. That's

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Speaker 2: what kept me around.

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Speaker 1: How many turkeys a year are there in the United States?

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Speaker 2: It varies, but last year and last year was an

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Speaker 2: unusual year because we had a pretty significant outbreak of

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Speaker 2: highly pathogenic and ebian influenza. So last year the total

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Speaker 2: was about two hundred and ten million turkeys.

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Speaker 3: Normal year it's more.

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Speaker 2: Like two hundred and twenty five million or so, and

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Speaker 2: that produces about five and a half billion pounds of

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Speaker 2: ready to cook turkey.

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Speaker 1: Beat When you see wild turkeys, they're really very different

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Speaker 1: than they tend to be smaller, leaner. We've really grown

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Speaker 1: turkeys that are designed for that Thanksgiving or Christmas table.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely years ago the industry started breeding only for white feathers,

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Speaker 2: because there's nothing wrong with the dark feathers. But they

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Speaker 2: left splotches on the scam the consumers apparently didn't like.

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Speaker 2: And then the other thing is we are big consumers

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Speaker 2: of white meat in the United States, so they bred

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Speaker 2: the turkeys to produce a bit more rest meat.

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Speaker 1: I have to confess, I don't know what it says

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Speaker 1: about me, but I have always probably since I was

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Speaker 1: seven or eight years old, I have always cherished getting

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Speaker 1: a turkey leg same year.

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Speaker 3: Nothing better, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then, despite Calosa staring at me, I like to

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Speaker 1: pick it up because I think that they're designed to

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Speaker 1: be picked up.

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Speaker 3: Nothing much good happens when you try it with a knife, and.

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Speaker 1: For that's exactly right. So you and I are on

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Speaker 1: the same team here. The story that the presidential partnering

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Speaker 1: actually began when Abraham Lincoln's son Tad Lincoln, begged his

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Speaker 1: father to spare the life of what was then a

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Speaker 1: Christmas turkey, and apparently Tad turned it into a pet

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Speaker 1: and would walk around and call him Jack and let

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Speaker 1: him around on a leash like a pet. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that a true story?

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Speaker 2: Well, it is the earliest example that anyone has found

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Speaker 2: in a couple of different White Houses have had staff

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Speaker 2: research and they've come up with the same answer.

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Speaker 3: And that's the earliest we can find anything related to

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Speaker 3: a holiday turkey and sparing it. I think there have.

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Speaker 2: Been a few other instances of turkey's being given as

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Speaker 2: gifts before that, But the ceremonies we know it today

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Speaker 2: actually just dates back to nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 1: What happens in forty seven that begins this tradition.

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Speaker 2: Realistically, some of that's been lost to the mists of time,

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Speaker 2: and I wish whoever was here in nineteen forty seven

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Speaker 2: had told a little bit more about it.

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Speaker 3: But there were a couple of things.

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Speaker 2: If you think back to the moment the country was

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Speaker 2: just two years removed from the end of World War II,

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Speaker 2: some of the rapid post war inflation is the price

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Speaker 2: and wage controls were lifted, and the country was beginning

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Speaker 2: to return a little bit to something more like normality.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen forty seven, there was a lot to be

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Speaker 2: thankful for. I guess in that circumstance. So that's when

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Speaker 2: our forerunners at this organization apparently approached the president's team

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Speaker 2: about giving a turkey is a symbolic gesture of the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the holiday season, and they did, and it

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Speaker 2: has happened almost without interruption ever since. I've found photographic

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Speaker 2: evidence that in one or two years the vice president

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Speaker 2: stood in for the president.

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Speaker 3: One from the fifties.

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Speaker 2: You remember President Eisenhower had some heart trouble, and we've

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Speaker 2: got a picture of Vice President Nixon standing.

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Speaker 3: In for him.

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Speaker 2: And I've found a couple where First Lady stood in,

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Speaker 2: one with Missus Nixon, one with Missus Ford. There seems

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Speaker 2: to maybe not been a ceremony at the height of

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Speaker 2: the around hostage crisis. But I know beginning with President

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Speaker 2: Reagan in nineteen eighty one, the event has happened unbroken

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Speaker 2: a day or two before Thanksgiving, and President George H. W.

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Speaker 2: Bush began the tradition of more officially pardoning the turkey.

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Speaker 1: I noticed as a part of that process that President

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Speaker 1: Kennedy got a turkey in nineteen sixty three which weighed

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Speaker 1: fifty five pounds.

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Speaker 2: That's happened sometimes gotten that big. That is an unusually

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Speaker 2: large turkey. We generally seek to have the national Thanksgiving turkeys.

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Speaker 2: Now when you wear from forty two to forty five

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Speaker 2: or forty six pounds.

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Speaker 1: It's poignant. Because he got the turkey received in the

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Speaker 1: rose garden. I said, we're going to just let this

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Speaker 1: one keep growing. It's our Thanksgiving present to him. And

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Speaker 1: three days later he was killed. Indes, there's a certain

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Speaker 1: poignancy to that story.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 2: I had an opportunity early on when I worked here

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Speaker 2: to talk with the gentleman who was chairman that year.

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Speaker 2: I was a grower from California, and he and his

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Speaker 2: wife had driven out and were driving back, and he

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Speaker 2: remembered talking to President Kennedy in the rose garden about

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Speaker 2: the trip to Texas that he was about to embark on,

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Speaker 2: and of course they heard the news on the radio

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Speaker 2: driving back.

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Speaker 1: What is the geography of raising turkeys? Where are the

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Speaker 1: primary centers?

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Speaker 2: You can find really three primary centers. Minnesota is our

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Speaker 2: largest turkey producing state. Our chairman who is ed the

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Speaker 2: turkey today to President Biden is from Minnesota, and they

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Speaker 2: raise in a normal year north of forty million turkeys.

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Speaker 3: And there's a big pocket of production in the upper Midwest.

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Speaker 2: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana have a notable amount of production.

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Speaker 2: Ohio excuse me as well. Michigan has some, Illinois has some.

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Speaker 2: So that's one pocket of production. The second biggest pocket

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Speaker 2: probably is the mid Atlantic down to the southeast. North

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Speaker 2: Carolina is our second biggest state, but there's a notable

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Speaker 2: production at South Carolina, Virginia, and Pennsylvania, a little bit

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Speaker 2: in northern Maryland, but it supplies a Pennsylvania processor.

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Speaker 3: And then there are a couple of outliers.

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Speaker 2: There's a healthy industry in California that's usually in our

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Speaker 2: top six or so producing states.

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Speaker 3: There's a major.

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Speaker 2: Processor out there, and then a couple of smaller, more

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Speaker 2: specialty market processors. And then we've got a somewhat unique

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Speaker 2: outlier in Utah.

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Speaker 1: How much different is it to raise large numbers of

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Speaker 1: turkeys than to raise large numbers of chickens?

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Speaker 3: There are some differences.

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Speaker 2: Most chickens are in their growout houses for six to

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Speaker 2: seven weeks on average. Turkeys a hen will grow twelve fourteen,

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Speaker 2: maybe fifteen weeks, and a heavy tongue could be at

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Speaker 2: the barn for as long as twenty or twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Weeks that's wild. So are they in sheds both chickens.

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Speaker 1: Are turkeys growing similarly that way? Yes they are.

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Speaker 2: They're in very large grow out houses, the vast majority

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Speaker 2: of them, because it protects them for predators. It reduces

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Speaker 2: the danger of diseases being introduced. These houses maybe not

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Speaker 2: quite as wide as a football field, but certainly as

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Speaker 2: long as a foot ball field, and the idea is

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Speaker 2: for them to have ample room to move around even

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Speaker 2: as they grow. I've been in houses with turkeys that

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Speaker 2: were nearly ready for Marketwaight and I always call it

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Speaker 2: the Red Sea effect.

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Speaker 3: They had plenty of room to move because.

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Speaker 2: When people would start walking through, they would literally part

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Speaker 2: so the people could walk through.

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Speaker 3: I'm almost sure Calissa had the opportunity to tour one

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Speaker 3: with us back in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: She did. She's from Wisconsin, but she was more into

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Speaker 1: the milk and cheese phase of Wisconsin and the turkey face.

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Speaker 1: She said it was a fascinating trip.

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Speaker 3: It's different than what people expect when they go into

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Speaker 3: the barns.

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Speaker 2: They're very roomy. They've got constant access to feed and water.

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Speaker 2: It's easy to dispense medication in there, either via the

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Speaker 2: feed or the water if anything's needed.

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Speaker 3: It's climate controlled.

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Speaker 2: The shavings and the beddings are changed with each new

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Speaker 2: flock that comes in. It's the very very comfortable environment

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Speaker 2: for the birds and it helps protect them during their lives.

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Speaker 1: And if I understand the length of TIMI discovered they

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Speaker 1: grow really fast. They do.

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Speaker 2: I think the average turkey takes about two and a

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Speaker 2: half pounds of feed per pound of turkey meat that's raised.

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Speaker 2: So you take that out over the number of weeks

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Speaker 2: necessary to get to the hand size like I said,

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Speaker 2: fourteen pounds, maybe sixteen. And the hens are primarily what

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Speaker 2: you need at Thanksgiving. What you see, it's the whole turkeys,

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Speaker 2: and then the toms are the ones that are grown

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Speaker 2: for the various parts ground turkey. If you find a

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Speaker 2: leg in the grocery store, it probably came from there.

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Speaker 2: It goes into sausage, into deli meat, etc.

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Speaker 1: We tend to make sandwiches out of turkey. I'm gathering

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Speaker 1: those are probably toms most likely.

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Speaker 2: If you bought the deli meat, yes, in most instances

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Speaker 2: that would have come from toms.

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Speaker 1: So now I have to ask you with this. The

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Speaker 1: more I've gotten into looking at this, the more interesting

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Speaker 1: it is. We were told that last year's president, Ronnie

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Speaker 1: Parker of Circles Ranch in Monroe, North Carolina, chose the

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Speaker 1: turkeys at Chocolate and Chip to be presented to the president,

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Speaker 1: and that this actually starts by hatching around thirty eggs

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Speaker 1: and actually training those birds to be handled, walked, and

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Speaker 1: to stand on tables so they would behave appropriately at

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Speaker 1: a presidential ceremony. Is that really true?

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely true that polts are usually hatched and

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Speaker 2: placed in late June or early July to get ready

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Speaker 2: for the White House. And the reason why they get

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Speaker 2: additional interaction is because a turkey is not used to

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Speaker 2: being in the rose Guard with the White House Press

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Speaker 2: corps there and all of this pomp and circumstance, a

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Speaker 2: military band playing around it. And so what almost all

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Speaker 2: of our chairmen do is they increase the socialization of

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Speaker 2: the birds by spending more time in the barns.

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Speaker 3: They would be averaged.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes some chairmen and their families have chose to handfeed them.

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Speaker 2: They play music, sometimes they play crowd noises for them.

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Speaker 2: They do a lot of things to get them ready

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Speaker 2: so that they're comfortable when they're picking on the cops.

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Speaker 1: These are pretty pampered turkeys by the time they get

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Speaker 1: to the white they.

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Speaker 2: Are, and the difference that socialization mate was evident one year.

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Speaker 2: This would have been around nineteen ninety eight, fairly late

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Speaker 2: in President Clinton's term. Our chairman was from Minnesota, and

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Speaker 2: they were going to fly the birds over commercially, and

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Speaker 2: something got held up with the veterinary certificate. So at

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Speaker 2: the very last minute we had to source two breeder

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Speaker 2: toms from Wisconsin, from Steve Gutterson's old district. So these

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Speaker 2: toms plucked from their barns where they were being breeders,

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Speaker 2: put on a plane, and they were somewhat more unruly

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Speaker 2: in the rose garden than the ones that had been socialized.

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Speaker 2: They was fine, there wasn't an incident or anything, but

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Speaker 2: to keep the one keral for it went up on

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Speaker 2: the table was a much tougher task that year than

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Speaker 2: in most now.

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Speaker 1: The twenty twenty three turkeys are both twenty weeks old.

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Speaker 1: They weigh about forty two pounds each. They were hatched

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Speaker 1: in July and Wilmer, Minnesota, as part of the presidential flock.

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Speaker 1: I think this is all great stuff. You then get

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Speaker 1: them literally socialized into being ready for the Marine Corps

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Speaker 1: band for the news media and all the stuff. And

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Speaker 1: over the years, as I said earlier, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about chocolate and Chip as two turkeys, but Reagan's turkey

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Speaker 1: was named RJ, which was short for Robust and Juicy.

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush named the turkeys Liberty and Freedom. Katie

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Speaker 1: was the first female turkey pardon That was in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, but was in George W. Bush, and

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Speaker 1: then George W. Bush started the process of voting on

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Speaker 1: the turkey's names on the White House website. Those names

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Speaker 1: were named stars and stripes. Then we had biscuits and gravy.

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Speaker 1: You can't make this stuff up. And then in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five they were named Marshmallow and Yale, And

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and six they were named Flyer and Friar.

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Speaker 1: That's a little tough. In two thousand and seven they

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Speaker 1: were named May and Flower. And in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eight the backup turkey Pumpkin was used for the ceremony

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Speaker 1: after the primary turkey, Pecan became ill. And finally in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, the turkeys are named Drumstick and wish boom.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these things are really wild, Is it really true?

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Speaker 1: That the two finalist turkeys when they get to Washington

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Speaker 1: stay at the Willard Intercontinental Hotel.

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Speaker 3: They absolutely do.

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Speaker 2: We've been staying with the Willard for probably about a

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Speaker 2: decade now, and it is a wonderful ceremony. When the

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Speaker 2: birds arrive, they're brought out, they're carried in a cargo van,

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Speaker 2: and they're brought out of the cargo van, set down

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Speaker 2: on the red carpet, and they move up the red

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Speaker 2: carpet till they get to the steps. And then at

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Speaker 2: that point we carry them up the steps and put

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Speaker 2: them in large kennels to take them up to their room,

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Speaker 2: and then they settle into the room shortly after that.

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Speaker 1: Do you keep them in the kennel or do they

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Speaker 1: get to run.

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Speaker 2: Around the only time they're in the kennel cages is

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Speaker 2: transporting to and from the hotel room and over to

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Speaker 2: the White House.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Willard is a very high end hotel.

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Speaker 1: So you've got this high end hotel room with two

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Speaker 1: turkeys running around in it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so it's part of a two room suite where

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Speaker 2: whoever's minding the turkeys stays in the room next door.

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Speaker 2: But the way it works is there's an entry.

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Speaker 3: Hallway into the room.

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Speaker 2: And when the turkeys are left alone that entry hall

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Speaker 2: the back end of the entry hallway that goes into

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Speaker 2: the bedroom area is blocked off and shavings are put down,

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Speaker 2: and that's where the turkeys stay in the room alone.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of these media come up and interview

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Speaker 2: the turkeys. A lot of them want the turkeys put

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Speaker 2: up on the beds, to have photos shot on the beds.

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Speaker 3: And it's really fun, a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: That's wild. Listen, I really want to thank you, Joel.

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Speaker 1: I think Klyst would want to join me in thanking you.

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Speaker 1: This has been one of our more fun podcasts. I

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Speaker 1: have to tell you. I'm still fascinating with the image

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Speaker 1: of the turkey running around in the willard. It's been fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's a great example of kind of Americana that's remarkable.

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Speaker 1: The National Turkey Federation is a national members organization devoted

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Speaker 1: to raising America's turkeys. So everybody has a sit down

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Speaker 1: to enjoy their Thanksgiving Day feast and later on their

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Speaker 1: Christmas feast, they ought to think of the National Turkey

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Speaker 1: Federation and all the work they do to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we have healthy turkeys. That they are nutritious and

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Speaker 1: that they meet all the standards we should have in

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Speaker 1: modern society. I want to thank you Joel for sharing

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Speaker 1: the turkey experience with us.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me, and I hope you

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Speaker 2: and Chlissa have a really happy Thanksgiving and a wonderful

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Speaker 2: Christmas as well.

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Speaker 1: I want to take a few extra minutes who talk

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Speaker 1: to you personally about Thanksgiving and let me say first

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Speaker 1: of all, I hope that you and your family will

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Speaker 1: have a wonderful thanks It can be a great holiday.

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Speaker 1: I look back on my own childhood. We used to

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Speaker 1: always go up to Lowiston, Pennsylvania. I was born in Harrisburg,

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Speaker 1: and we would go up the Junietta River for about

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Speaker 1: forty five miles on a two lane road and we

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Speaker 1: would go to my aunt and uncle's and you spend

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Speaker 1: all day talking, watching football, smelling all the great smells,

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Speaker 1: the turkey that was cooking, sweet potatoes, the various pies

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Speaker 1: and cakes. You know, it was an amazing day when

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Speaker 1: you were a little kid. That's all pretty exciting. I

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Speaker 1: personally have always been a big fan of Cranberry's and

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Speaker 1: that was a big part that we look forward to.

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Speaker 1: And I have to confess as I said earlier to Joel,

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Speaker 1: I always liked getting a turkey, like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: just to me, that was the best you could get to.

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Speaker 1: But it was more than that, and I hope your

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving is more than that. It was being with family,

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Speaker 1: with friends, It was thinking back over the last year.

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Speaker 1: It was talking about what are our plans for next year.

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Speaker 1: And we had a pretty large extended family, and so

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Speaker 1: I mean lots of different people coming from all over

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Speaker 1: the place. Some came from Delaware, some came from Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: as well as the people from central Pennsylvania, and so

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Speaker 1: it was just a remarkable thing. And of course later on,

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Speaker 1: as I grew up and had my own family, we'd

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Speaker 1: have our own Thanksgiving experience in our own tradition. I

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Speaker 1: hope this year, with all the tragic things going on

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Speaker 1: in the world, with the fighting Gaza, with the problems

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine, with the challenges we have here at home,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you will be able to take some

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Speaker 1: time to give thanks. Remember, George Washington had the first

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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving proclamation, actually the first executive order ever issued, because

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Speaker 1: he felt deeply that America could not exist without the

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Speaker 1: intervention of divine providence. Said so bluntly, and I think

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Speaker 1: he wanted us to take a moment to stop, to

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Speaker 1: give thanks, to go odd for the lives we have,

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Speaker 1: the freedom, we have, the very nature of being an American.

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Speaker 1: And that's frankly, I think the spirit in which the

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Speaker 1: Native Americans and the Pilgrims got together back in sixteen

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Speaker 1: twenty one, the sense that they'd survived the winter, that

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Speaker 1: they'd had a good harvest, that they had an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to stop and enjoy life. And I hope that, like me,

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Speaker 1: you'll take some time this Thanksgiving both to give thanks

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Speaker 1: but also to enjoy. Now, I will confess I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward a little bit of trepidation on Thanksgiving Day because

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Speaker 1: green Bay is playing the Lions, and green Bay's beginning

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Speaker 1: to jell as a very very young team, but the

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Speaker 1: Lions are very good. As a big green Bay fan,

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Speaker 1: I'm a little concerned that, you know, I might have

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Speaker 1: to have an extra piece of pie or something if

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Speaker 1: green Bay doesn't win, just to compensate for the pain.

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Speaker 1: But whatever you like doing, whatever your hobbies, however you

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Speaker 1: deal with your own roles as your friends, your neighbors,

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Speaker 1: I hope you have a remarkably good Thanksgiving, and I

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Speaker 1: hope you can reach out to other folks you know

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Speaker 1: and encourage them and wish them a great Thanksgiving. This

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Speaker 1: is a time for Americans to come together, put politics aside,

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Speaker 1: put all the good reasons we have to argue with

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Speaker 1: each other, and instead enjoy a day recognizing how good

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Speaker 1: God has been to us, and that we have an

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Speaker 1: opportunity as Americans, Unlike most people in the history of

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Speaker 1: the human race, we have an opportunity to have a

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Speaker 1: great future, to work together and to give our children

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Speaker 1: and grandchildren an even better country. And I hope in

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Speaker 1: that tradition that you can dive into that turkey leg

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Speaker 1: or whatever you like, and you can have a great

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Speaker 1: dessert and you can relax and you say, you know, overall,

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Speaker 1: life is pretty good. And I wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Joel Brandenberger. You can learn

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Speaker 1: more about the presidential Turkey partner on our show page

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Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingers three

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Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and

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Speaker 1: our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show

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Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team

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Speaker 1: at Gingers three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I

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Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us

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00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others

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Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of

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Speaker 1: Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns

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Speaker 1: at gingerstree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich.

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Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.