1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Orenthal James Simpson O J. Simpson 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: seems like we never hear the end of him. He 4 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: allegedly quote confesses to murdering his wife. Is that a 5 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: big surprise to everybody? Saying he stabbed her dead after 6 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Ron Goldman tried to fight him when he went to 7 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: confront Nicole about her alleged sex life. Oh, it's easy 8 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: to come up with ways to trash Nicole Brown now 9 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: that she's cold and dead in the grave. But now 10 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: a tidal wave of anger has been unleashed after all 11 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: this time, Simpson confesses and it is caught on tape. 12 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 13 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: being with us. Joining me of course, is Alan Duke. Alan, Uh, 14 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: you're there in l A weighing in on this, Nancy. 15 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: The story of how this apparent confession video was lost 16 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: for a dozen years is crazy. I was invited to 17 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: Fox Studios in Los Angeles to view the raw video 18 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: even as they were still working to turn it into 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: the documentary that just aired. Work on the original documentary 20 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: was abandoned in two thousand and six. For what reason, 21 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I was told it was forgotten 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: about lost found only in recent weeks when they were 23 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: clearing out an office at Fox Television. When they put 24 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: the tape in an old machine to see what it was. 25 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: They were stunned, but quickly realized how valuable and significant 26 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: it was, and it took them little time to hire 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: Solo Dad O'Brien to help turn it into the show 28 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: that was aired this month by Fox Television. Let's just 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: kick it off. Take a listen to O J. Simps 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: in his own words, six uninterrupted minutes. O J puts 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: himself hypothetically at the scene of the crime um the chapter, 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: chapter six is called the Night in Question. Uh, and 33 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: you write in the book, now picture this and keep 34 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: in mind that this is hypothetical, hypothetical. Why don't you 35 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: tell me what might have happened on the night of 36 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: June and let's just walk through the night. Well, first 37 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: of all, it's this is very difficult for me to 38 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: do this. It was very difficult for me because it's hypothetical. 39 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: I know, and I accept the fact that people are 40 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: gonna feel whatever way they're gonna feel. You know, they're 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: gonna umiled some whatever whatever they want to feel. In 42 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: the book, the hypothetical is, uh, Charlie, Charlie. Uh, this 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: guy Charlie shows up, the guy who had recently become 44 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: friends with and uh, I don't know why you had 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: been by the col's house, but it told me you 46 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't believe what's going on over that. And and I 47 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: remember thinking, well, whatever is going over there's got to stop, right. 48 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: So we kind of hooked up together, and you know, 49 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: I'm kind of broad stroking this. We go over, get 50 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: into Bronco and go over. Let's just go back and 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: do the details. Where did your part? You park and 52 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: I put that in the alley. The park in the alley, 53 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: and you've put on of well cap and gloves. Uh Ina. 54 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: I put on the cap and gloves, and um, you 55 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: reached under the seat for a knife. I always kept 56 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: a knife and not car for the crazies and stuff, 57 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember 58 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: Charlie saying, you ain't bringing it. I didn't, all right, 59 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: but I believe he took it. Charlie took the knife. 60 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: In the book, yes, so the back gate, you go 61 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: through the back gate, yes, And it was open or 62 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: broken or I don't recall. I go to the front 63 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um, and 64 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: I can see that it appears in the Cole had flop. 65 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: I had candles all the time. She really did to 66 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: keep her overhead down, I think. And music was on. 67 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: And while I was there, a guy shows up. So 68 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: Ron Goldman comes in the back edge. Yeah, I got 69 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: I really didn't recognize I may have seen him around, 70 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone. And Uh, 71 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: and in the mood I was in, I started having 72 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: words with him. He says, to you, I just came 73 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: by to return a pair of glasses. Judy left them 74 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Yeah, I worris in that effect, yes, 75 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: And and I don't know if I believe it. I 76 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: didn't believe it. It was pretty much immaterial because you know, 77 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: I was working so about everything that everything that was 78 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: going on, you know, and UH was fed up with it, 79 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: I guess, and you get into a fight. Nicole comes out, 80 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: got a little loud and by that time, Uh, Nicole 81 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: had come out and we started having words about who 82 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: is this guy, why is he here? What's going on? 83 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: And she says, this is my house. Get that they 84 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: found here, Yes, and uh, which I didn't like because 85 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: once again, this is the same person. And if you 86 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: read the book, you'll see some things that happened in 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: the two weeks leading up to this that we're very 88 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: very irritating, you know. Um. And I think Charlie had 89 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: followed this guy in one makes sure it was no problem, 90 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: and he brought the knife as things got heated. I 91 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: just remember the cold fall and hurt herself and uh, 92 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: this guy kind of got into a karate thing and 93 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? 94 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: And I remember grabbed the knife. I do remember that 95 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: portion taking a knife from Charlie, And to be honest, 96 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: after that, I don't remember except I'm standing there and 97 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: it's all kind of stuff around, and um, what kind 98 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: of stuff, but and stuff around you know. We you know, 99 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: I hate to say this. I know we got to 100 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: back up again. Okay, I don't know that I want 101 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: to back up. I want to try to make people 102 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: think that I'm um, you wrote in the book I 103 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: had never seen so much blood in my life. Mm hmm, yes, covered, 104 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: you're covered the scene. Can you describe It's hard for 105 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: me to describe it. I'm telling you, I don't think 106 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: any two people could be um murdered the way they 107 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: were without everybody been covered in blood. And of course 108 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: I think we've all seen the as lead pictures after, 109 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: so yeah, I think everything was covered would have been 110 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: covered in blood. And what goes through your mind at 111 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: a time like that, I don't know. It's like what happened, 112 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: all right? You're right about removing a glove before taking 113 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: the knife from Charlie. Uh. You know, I had no 114 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: conscious memory of doing that, but obviously I must have 115 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: because they found a glove there. I'm blacking out. Have 116 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: you ever blacked out before? Not to my knowledge? No, 117 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: of course, of course, if something like this would take 118 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: place in anybody's life, if it were to happen, I 119 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: would imagine it's something that you would probably automatically have 120 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: trouble wrapping your your mind around it. It was horrible, 121 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: It was absolutely hard, staggering. Firsthand tales about the crime scene, 122 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: which he says are hypothetical. He wrote in the book, 123 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: I had never seen so much blood in my life. 124 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to describe it. I'm telling I 125 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: don't think any two people could be um murdered the 126 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: way they were without everybody had been covered in blood. 127 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: Then you see bloody footprints and you decide to take off. Yes, 128 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: actually I believe Charlie kept saying, we gotta get out 129 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: of here. And in the book you described taking off 130 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: your shoes, your pants and your shirt and dropping it 131 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: in a bundle. Do remember that, yes, and remember what happens? 132 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: Are you going to do it? You know, somebody's got 133 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: to get rid of as you may have called doing 134 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: the twelve and said where the bloody clothes? Or somebody 135 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: had to get rid of the bloody clothes And you 136 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: had left your keys and wallet in your pants pocket 137 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: and you had to go back and get it. And 138 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: you know, be honest, I think I know that to 139 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: be true with us, Yes, Um, And Charlie is the 140 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: sterical screaming Jesus Christ or j Jesus Christ, and he's 141 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: in a panic. He was in a panic, and I'm 142 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: telling him to shut up. Let's get out of here. 143 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: So you get back in the car, you're taken your 144 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: clothes and drove back and and it parked a block 145 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: away because I knew the limo would be there, and 146 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: came across the backyard, through the two tennis courts, and 147 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, came through the house, so you went through 148 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: the neighbors. Neighbors. Yeah, he had a tennis court. Then 149 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: I had a tennis court. And you go into the 150 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: house and what happens in the house. I ran up stairs, 151 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: take a shower, Actually ran up says. He took some 152 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: of my bags and came back downstairs and put them 153 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: out front. Joining me right now. Forensic expert in his field, 154 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics at Jacksona State University, Joseph Scott Morgan 155 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: also with me, sitting Judge, renowned victim's advocate Ashley Wilcott, 156 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: also with me, Emmy Award winning reporter Investigative journalists. Aren't Harris? 157 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: Aren't Harris? Uh? You know, Simpson, you have covered the 158 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: story forever. You were there during the entire drama. You know, 159 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: some thing's never changed to do They aren't Matthew. What 160 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 1: shocks me? And people would come up to me like 161 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: they probably did you and ask do you think he's guilty? Well, 162 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: after covering him for twenty four years and hearing this confession, 163 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: which I would call it, they can't ever ask the 164 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: question again. This is O. J. Recreating a lot of 165 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: the things that we believed and reported from other sources. 166 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: He is telling us how he did the crime hypothetically, 167 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: but it doesn't come off that way because he shifts 168 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: into the first person. And it is really really disgusting 169 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: to listen to a convicted killer who once upon a 170 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: time was making money off or would have off this 171 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: book and off the interview out to Joseph Scott, Morgan, 172 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: Joe Scott. When you hear it laid out that way, 173 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: it addresses every question that was raised at trial way 174 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: in from your point of view. Yeah, what we have, Nancy, 175 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: is that this this hypothetical that he puts puts forward 176 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: actually kind of marries up with a lot of things 177 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: that we see presented visa v. The crime scene reports 178 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: at the time and UM and his presence there, and 179 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: that's the key to all of this, uh connectivity between 180 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: him and the violence that was exacted exacted on these people. Uh. 181 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: Let's keep in mind, uh, Nancy, his you know, revisiting 182 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: past history here, his d n A doesn't just show 183 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: up miraculously at the scene. It was it was physically there. 184 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: It was physically adjacent to uh, to other evidence at 185 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: that scene. And it's it's compelling. So yeah, it just 186 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: it baffles my mind as as a death investigator that 187 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: we're literally sitting here listening to him kind of narrate 188 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: this event in this in this odd bizarre way that 189 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: he does, you know, and and and kind of uh, 190 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, embroidered with this bizarre laughter that he every 191 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: you know, Ashley Willcott. The laughter is so um bazarre 192 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: is a good way to describe it. But the way, 193 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean you look at him in the face, Ashley, 194 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: and you and I have had so many lying witnesses 195 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: on the stand and watched them. Looks right at my 196 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: old friends Judith Reagan and says, Charlie told him all 197 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: this and with a straight face, with a straight face, 198 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: And what a crazy hypothetical, this so called Charlie no 199 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: last name, says man, if you did, you do you 200 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: know what's happening over there? I mean from Simpson's home, 201 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: you cannot see what's happening at Bundy, Okay, you can't 202 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: see what's happening into Cole Brown's home. So this Charlie 203 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: person comes in and says, hey, you know what's happening 204 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: over there? And they get in the car and go over. 205 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: And now we learned Simpson keeps his knife under his seat. Ashley, 206 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: if I were the sitting judge and if this hypothetical 207 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: scenario flash confession we're being set in front of me 208 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: as his testimony, I would find him not credible, insincere, 209 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: the laughter, all the things that you've described, Nancy, you 210 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: know as well as I do. There's no sincerity. He 211 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: is not credible. I do not believe and would not 212 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,359 Speaker 1: believe this is a hypothetical. I think it's a confessionist 213 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: to exactly what happened. Okay, I agree with you, with me, everybody, 214 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: UH forensics expert Joseph Scott, Morgan, Ashley Willcott, an Emmy 215 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: Award winning journalist Aunt Harris. Listen to O. J. Simpson 216 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: seeing her and leaning over and kissing her, and can 217 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: you tell me that? Well, No, it was tough. I 218 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: just remember seeing her there, and I still had so 219 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: many feelings of if you're angry with a person upon 220 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: their death. You know, if you're angry with somebody about 221 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: whatever is going on in your life, when they die, 222 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: it's not like that anchor disappears, right, and and and 223 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: because of the nine one one call when I'm yelling 224 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: at her about what's going on? It was like I 225 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: wanted It was almost like I want to say I 226 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: told you, didn't I tell you, didn't I say to you, 227 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: you know it's whatever the hell was going on? You 228 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: know what I mean, didn't I so you still got 229 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: those kind of feelings in you and you still are 230 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: trying to deal with I'm not going to be able 231 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: to say this to this person. I'm never going to 232 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: be able to change this person's mind. I'm never gonna 233 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: have an effect on this person again. What did you 234 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: say to her when you leaned over and kissed her. 235 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if I said anything, To be honest 236 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: with you, I'm told that that some person said. They're 237 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: hurting me say I'm sorry. I just recalled all Julie 238 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: Brown pulling me over, look at me in the eye 239 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: and saying to me, oh, j did you have anything 240 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: to do with this? And I know I told her 241 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: no to Art Harris joining me. You know Art, you 242 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: know all the players so well. Even after her death, 243 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: he's still angry. And what it boils down to is 244 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: he's angry at the thought she may be with another man. 245 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy. He looks in the window. When he 246 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: goes over, he sees candles and he's claiming, oh, well, 247 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: she's saving money on lights, but he knows she's in 248 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: there with a romance for a romantic evening with Ron Goldman, 249 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: and he the guy shows up and he cannot contain 250 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: himself and really starts picks a fight and then blames 251 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: it on Ron Goldman. Well, he got into a karate 252 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: stance and he's is like challenging me, and I had 253 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: a knife, So what basically had to kill him? I mean, 254 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: he doesn't, he says, he blacks out. But Nancy, everything 255 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: they found at the scene here matches up to the 256 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: police investigation that the defense to debunk. Remember, no bloody footprints, 257 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: no d n A. I mean, everything is now confirmed 258 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: by his hypothetical confession. He's got blood all over him. 259 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: He's got bloody footprints there that matched the Bruno Maglee 260 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: shoes the FBI proved he was wearing. And I mean, 261 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: it's unbelievable that this fills in the gaps of all 262 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: the evidence that was supposedly faulty evidence, Nancy, and it's 263 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: now confirmed. The glove. He admits he dropped the glove 264 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: at the scene so that means Mark Ferman was telling 265 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: the truth, you know, the witness they put up to 266 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: try to scapegoat the l A p D. Suddenly O. J. 267 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: Simpson has just shown the offense to be a complete charade. 268 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: And you know, as we suspected. You know, I look 269 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: back on all that time Ashley Willcott that I coos 270 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: to cockriting Grace with Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul, 271 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: and so often until I kept getting the same answer, 272 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: I quit asking him. I would say, Cochrane, you know 273 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: he did it, you know he did it. Every time Ashley, 274 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: Johnny would say the same thing, had hold up both 275 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: his hands like I don't know, and he'd say, jury 276 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: acquitted him. That was always his answer. It was well 277 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: practiced because people were always coming up to him saying that. 278 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: So that was his answer, and it was true, the 279 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: jury did acquit him. But I gotta I gotta tell you, actually, 280 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: it is a kick in the stomach, a kick in 281 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: the teeth to hear Simpson say this, because for me, 282 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: having been a crime victim, to think about the Goldman 283 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: and the Brown family having to hear this after all 284 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: these years. I mean, it's nothing they didn't know but 285 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: it's just so incendiary Ashley. Well, and even if it's 286 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: something you don't know, once you hear the actual person 287 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: saying it in his own words, that changes it. You 288 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: may think, you know, like we know he did it, 289 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: but then to hear him describe all this in his 290 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: own words, I think if I were the victim, I 291 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, he had a great defense team. But 292 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: even so, how did he get acquitted? How could he 293 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: not be convicted? The evidence was there? Now we hear 294 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: his words proving the evidence. How in the world did 295 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: this man not get convicted? That's how I would feel. Guys, 296 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: thank you for calling it at nine O nine two 297 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: seven four six three. Let's go to the calls, and 298 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: my question is about O. J. H. Simpson hypothetical confession. Um, 299 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm wanting to know if I know the double jeopardy 300 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: rule and everything, that he could never be charged again, 301 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: um with their murders, But I want to know if 302 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: there's anything else um he could be charged with if 303 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: he was too you know, actually say he did it. 304 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: So that's kind of what I'm wanting to know, if 305 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, anybody could charge him with anything else if 306 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: he confessed. Thanks for the question. Ashley sadly, even with 307 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: an outright confession, he cannot be retried because of double jeopardy. 308 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: That's right, he cannot in some countries, you can be 309 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: not in the United States. This is hypothetical, hypothetical. I 310 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: just wonder why he had to resort to such a 311 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: terrible way to assuage his hate, or something similar to that. 312 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: I still don't believe he did it. I believe Nicole 313 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: was tired with a lot of people that do. They're 314 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: still drugs, and I believe that they're the ones that 315 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: killed her. Let's go back to oh J. Simpson essentially confessing, 316 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: occasionally throwing in oh yeah, this is hypothetical, but clearly 317 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: he is confessing to the night he committed a double murder. Listen, 318 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: what was the hardest thing for you at that time 319 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: that people You're write in the book that you couldn't 320 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: believe that people thought you were a murderer. It was 321 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: hot believe that. It seems so easy listening to TV 322 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,239 Speaker 1: that week, that it was that easy for people to 323 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: believe that I could I could kill two people. I 324 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: thought that my whole life meant something. I thought the 325 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: type of god that I had lived my life, being 326 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: pretty upstanding god man like everybody, had my faults like 327 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: most men in my position, and uh sometime temptations of 328 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: the flesh is there, you know. But for the most part, 329 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: I've always thought I was a straight shooting, straight shooter 330 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: in any event, Uh that that was hard for me 331 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: to accept that it was so easy for people to 332 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: um believe that, Okay, is he insane? I guess the 333 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: answer would have to be yes at this point, because 334 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: Art Harris, you know Simpson's character, you have you have 335 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: investigated him for so long. You know he's deeply involved 336 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: in drugs, cheated, beat his wife. I mean, how many 337 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: nine when one calls were there where he beat Nicole Brown? 338 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: And I never will forget that photo of her up 339 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: in the courtroom with their face all swollen up and 340 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: black and blue because of him, those nine one one 341 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: calls or he's beating the door down to try to 342 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: get at her and beat her almost sounded inhuman. So 343 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: now he's saying he's a pretty good guy. What and Nancy? 344 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: I mean the L A. P. D. S UH District 345 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: office nearby was almost on speed dial for Nicole's UH 346 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: number because he was he was so abusive and violent 347 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: and of course then blamed it on her. This was 348 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: the poster child for domestic violence, and he really created 349 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: an awareness that we now are sensitive to. But this 350 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: was it was horrific to hear what she went through. 351 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: And and then now we have him blaming her again. 352 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: I know he did a tremendous amount of drugs. She 353 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: was trying to get him to cut down on the coke, 354 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: according to people I interviewed, and he has been the 355 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: one to blame her for partying, and now of course 356 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: blames her for having to having to do what he 357 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: did because he caught her with another man. He had 358 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: just bought her a Ferrari, he had just paid for 359 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: her cosmetic surgery, and he says in this interview she 360 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: was looking pretty good. Well he went over that night 361 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: to quote, as he said in the interview, to quote 362 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: get some Well he didn't. And suddenly she's lying there, Nancy, 363 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: in a pool of blood. Blood he's got all over him. 364 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: And of course the trial discounts all that. You know, 365 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: another thing Ashley will caught that that I hate about 366 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: this is now even in death, he's dragging her through 367 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: the mud, claiming that he heard through the grapevine. She 368 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: was having group sex parties at the home. That's what 369 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: he says. And I know Jackie just turned around and 370 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: gave me a look, but that's what he's saying. That. 371 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: That is what he went over there to stop. He 372 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: is a classic abuser, and he's narcissistic because he thinks, oh, 373 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: it's everybody else's fault, and everybody else is at I 374 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. I still don't think he thinks 375 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: he did anything wrong, even in killing needs to individuals 376 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: to Joe's got Morgan, Joe, I want you to hear this. 377 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: Next sound listen to Simpson essentially confessing turned a double 378 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: murder and yes he has walked free. Listen. So I 379 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: had run into her, which they tried to say was stalking, 380 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: because her and some friends were at a opening of 381 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: a restaurant. I was there with like sixteen people. So 382 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: if I'm stocking you, I'm stocking you with with my crew. 383 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: You know we're all there too, you know. And I 384 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: saw her and I went over and spoke to her 385 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: in her group. Uh. Then I went out to my 386 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: group to a party. But on the way home, I'd 387 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: said out, see if she's home, because if she's still up. 388 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: I don't know how late she stayed out. No, you 389 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: maybe you know I can get something in any event. Uh. 390 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: As I approached the front door, she has a window 391 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: right along the walkway there, I can hear something and 392 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: I can see movement, and when I look, I can 393 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: obviously see she was involved in something. I don't know 394 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: who's with or what. And I hit the door and left. 395 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: When you knocked on the door, I just hit the door, 396 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: be aware that somebody's around and maybe they'd move with something. 397 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: That's what I didn't even look. I just hit the 398 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: door twice and left. Alan, what happened to Charlie? Because 399 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: now he has dropped all pretense of a hypothetical I 400 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: guess he forgot about Charlie. And you know I'm using 401 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: air quotes, Allan. Charlie is a fictional name an allegedly 402 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: hypothetical situation. There's a lot of speculation on who Charlie is. 403 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: Charlie could still be tried, right, I mean, if we 404 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: could figure out who Charlie, Allen, Alan, what are you 405 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: saying there is no Charlie? What? What? What do you even? 406 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: I said, he's a fictional person in a hypothetical scenario, 407 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: but it's probably real what O J is say, it 408 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: sounds so real. I believe there's a Charlie. I really believe. 409 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: And who is it. I think that there could be 410 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: another person who went by Nicole's house then of the 411 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: of the murders saw something going on, went and told 412 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: O Jay and then went with him. I think he's 413 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: actually telling the truth. Um, Okay, Ashley Wilcott, there is 414 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: no evidence at all of a Charlie. I don't know 415 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: if Alan Do is listening to the same interview I am, 416 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: But at this point in the interview he's not even 417 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: discussing Charlie anymore. He forgot about him because he doesn't exist. Ashley, 418 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: he did forget about him. And not only that. Even 419 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: if you want to think, well, maybe there's a Charlie, 420 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: he is not credible. He is not reliable. Listen to 421 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: his testimony. The fact that that Napole is dead and 422 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: he's talking about, oh, I want to go get some 423 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: Nothing he has said sounds at all remotely credible, including 424 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: Charlie he's now forgotten about. Well, another thing to you, 425 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgen, you have studied the autopsy over and 426 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: over and over, actually autopsies. Um, there no evidence that 427 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: there was a second perpetrator. No, no, there's there's not, Nancy. UM. 428 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people. Uh. And if I 429 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: could just interject this, I actually sat across the table 430 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: at a luncheon, uh many years ago, across the across 431 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: the table from Dr Irwin Golden. Golden, and Dr Golden 432 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: is the person that actually did autopsies on on Nicole 433 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: and Ron, and I remember looking at him and thinking 434 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: about the things that he had seen in the autopsy room, 435 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 1: much like stuff that I had seen over my years 436 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: and whatnot, and thinking, this man of science is sitting 437 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: there and he knows, he knows what he bore witnessed 438 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: to in that autopsy room, and just thinking that he 439 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: he's in an upside down universe because no one was 440 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: buying for whatever reason, maybe it was because of late 441 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane. This hard evidence that that we had, and 442 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that's what this all 443 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: comes down to, is the hard evidence. Many people out 444 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: there they it's been put forth that that he was 445 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: that that both of these people were stabbed. Nancy, Uh, 446 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 1: they were not staffed. Uh, these these injuries when you 447 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: look at these autopsy reports, these are incised injuries. And 448 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: what that means is that the leading edge of a 449 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: blade was was drug across the surface of the skin. 450 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: It's not like they were poked or something like this. 451 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: Nicole's throat was cut so deeply that it went down, uh, 452 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: to her cervical spine. Nancy. And it's not just once 453 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: or twice, it's several times. And I just put it 454 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: in language that everybody will understand. Uh, she had her 455 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: head chopped off, her cervical spine. Is your neck? She 456 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: was decapitated. There was a layer of skin holding her 457 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: head on. They cut went so deep through her was 458 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: such ferocity it went all the way through her neck 459 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: and left her head hanging by the skin in the 460 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: back of her neck. Is that right, Joe Scott, Yeah, yeah, 461 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: it is, Nancy. And these injuries can only be achieved 462 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: in one of two ways. Either someone was on top 463 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: of her slicing her, or they were behind her, her 464 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: head held back, probably at the forehead, with a knife 465 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: being drug across the front of her throat all the 466 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: way down. This isn't a one off circumstance. He you know, 467 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: he's sitting there arrogantly saying, uh, you know, and this 468 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: is what really reached out and grabbed me about the 469 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: whole interview. You know, well, anybody that would have been there, 470 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: we'd all be covered with blood. Yeah, you know, you 471 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: were covered with blood. He was covered with the blood 472 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: of both of these people. A matter of fact, he 473 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: was super saturated. He was saturated so much we've never 474 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: been able to find this clothes now halfway. Uh and 475 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: he he divested himself as he's clothing because it was 476 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: so he was so saturated. He knows what happened, Nancy, 477 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: He knows what happened. To take a listen to Oriental 478 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 1: James Simpson in his own words during that nine one 479 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: one tape that everybody hears me yelling, I'm saying, I 480 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: don't want these girls around my kids. And that's the 481 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: only thing that argument on that nine one one tape 482 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: was about. I went to our house and I read 483 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: about riot act I did would any father and and 484 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: would do. And yet you know, people listen to that 485 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: tape and made me this horrible person whenever they hit 486 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: that nine one take. Can you believe he's yelling at 487 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: her about this? Well, when the cops came it became apparent. 488 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: She said, I was yelling her about this and only this. 489 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: That's the only reason I was there, reading her to 490 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: riot act because I don't want these people around my kids. Well, 491 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean, the obvious thing, Ashley is if he one 492 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: had wanted to say in his children's life, he wouldn't 493 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: have beaten Nicole black and Blue, threatened to kill her 494 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: on so many occasions. They finally broke up and she 495 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: was living with the children. There's a reason she had custody, Ashley. 496 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: And it's not because everybody thought he was a bad person. 497 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: Is because he's violent, right, And for him to say, oh, 498 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: I did what every father and he know he said 499 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: I did what any father would do is insulting to 500 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: fathers because he absolutely did not do what most fathers 501 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: would do. To go over there and attack her verbally 502 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: and again make sure she's the victim of domestic violence 503 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: in front of those kids is not right. Here we go, Oh, 504 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: j Simpson, I want to talk about the first time 505 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: you met Nicole Brown. Yes, where wasn't it was? Right 506 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: or Ordeal? A place called the Daisy. It's a little 507 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: breakfast place, and I ran into a friend of mine. 508 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: He said, let's have breakfast. And when we walked in, 509 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: this this vision turned to me and said, what do 510 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: you want to sit? And I remember think, what a 511 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: gorgeous girl. But I can't deal with this. So it's 512 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: three days later when I came back, I went back 513 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: into the days in was having lunch with the onna 514 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: and she came back in and uh, I said, man, 515 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: I would really like to take this girl up. And 516 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: he called her over and introduces and you know, said 517 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: this is one of the good guys, and you were 518 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: together from now on. Well, yeah, well that I had 519 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: to take her before I went to the point I 520 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: had to explained to her that I was married when 521 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't married. Though it sounded like a line, but 522 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: after we talked, I think she believed me and were together. 523 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: You know what's weird about that, Aunt Harris. He talks 524 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: like I would ask you where where did you meet Carol? 525 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: Your wife? Well, it seems like he's kind of glossing 526 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: over the fact that he murdered her. Oh yeah, this 527 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: is a justification. Well, you know, she was this beautiful 528 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: waitresses woman who I met and uh, you know, I 529 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: finally got the hook up with her and we lived 530 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: happily ever after. Um. I mean, this is someone who, 531 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: in the middle of confessing later that he sliced her 532 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: to pieces, is talking kind and laughing about the first 533 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: time he met her, as you know, as he's this 534 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: little infatuated, uh, a young guy, but in fact it's 535 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: she's his possession, and it explains why he was so enraged, 536 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: uh that she would there be with another man after 537 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: of course he'd beaten her senseless for years. Um. This 538 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: is someone who feels justified in protecting all his possessions, 539 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: and she was one of his possessions that he's furious 540 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: left him. O. J. Simpson now describes the Bronco chase. 541 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to the Broncho and you can 542 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: just give me some of the details of what what 543 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: you said to each other and some of the well, 544 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of conversation, but basically it was 545 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: just you had a gun. Yeah, but it was in 546 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: the bag in the back at that point with the 547 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: pictures and stuff. The police like to say it was 548 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: with a passport. I always at my passport there. They 549 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: said I had ten thousand dollars. I think I had 550 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: like three dollars and something that changed, as a matter 551 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: of fact, when I was let out of jail after 552 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: my trial and they were giving me all my things back, 553 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: all the stuff that was in the bronco that was 554 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: mine back. I said, where's the ten thousand dollars? Where's 555 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: my ten th dollars that you guys claimed that I had? 556 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: What are you thinking? You're in the car. I'm in 557 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: the back of it, still in the back of the truck, 558 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: and I can't believe what I'm saying, because as every 559 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: time we go by intersections, it was like, where did 560 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: these people get the time to make these signs? Go 561 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: old Jay and stuff? And what was strange is is 562 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: I had been I was being depicted as a fugitive 563 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: on the radio, but from the side of the roads, 564 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: it was more people cheering. I feel like I could 565 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: use a shrink right now, because instead of focusing on 566 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: the fact that he is on a slow speed chase 567 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: from police after his wife, his ex wife has been murdered, 568 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: and his children no longer have a mother and he 569 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: suspect number one, he's talking about people holding up posters. 570 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: That's what his mind remembers. Um aren't Harris, I remember that? 571 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: But what I remember is him getting away from police 572 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: holding himself hostage with a gun, uh the whole time. 573 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: And he did not travel with his passport all the time. 574 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: He took it because he was trying to figure out 575 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: where he was going to go, but he never made it. 576 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: He's rewriting history again, Nancy, that's right in fact, But 577 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 1: he forgets to tell us he also had that disguise, uh, 578 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: you know that he might be wearing if he were 579 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: to make it to the California Mexico border where he 580 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: was headed. And he doesn't talk about the long phone 581 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: conversation he had with the l APD homicide detective Tom Lane, 582 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: who was trying to talk him out of quote killing himself. Well, 583 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: you know, we thought he felt so guilty about what 584 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: he had done that that's that's what was going on. 585 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: But here he is making light of that whole thing. 586 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: We see what is really going through his head is 587 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: his fans. If he thinks people still love him, Hey, 588 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: that's what he wants to hear. And so this is 589 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: real disconnect, Nancy, with with what was going on at 590 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: the time that that we both watched. You know, Ashley Willcott, 591 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: it's just the same scenario. It doesn't really change. The 592 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: person goes on the run, they have a big wad 593 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 1: of cash, they have a disguise. I'm glad you reminded 594 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: me of that art because I've forgotten that detail. Got 595 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 1: a gun, money, passport, disguise. When a cop comes up 596 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: behind me, I pull over because I don't want to 597 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: make it worse. I also don't want to get shot. Um, 598 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to get beat up. You do what 599 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: the cop tells you to do. He was running from 600 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: the cops. Bam, that's what was happening, and he almost 601 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: sounded like he got off on it because he was like, Oh, 602 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: I saw all these people cheering. It was great. So 603 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: keep in mind, though we can't attribute rational thought to 604 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: this man who has murdered two people. So he was 605 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: running from the car. Okay, take a listen to this. 606 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: I loved her to no end, you know, and always 607 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: loved her, you know. I I think what happened it 608 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: became reverse of what she said to me when she 609 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: wanted a divorce. I loved her, but I didn't like her. 610 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: I went didn't love with her. That's what she had 611 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: said to me to get a divorce. And I kind 612 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: of figured that's where we were at at the time 613 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: of her death. I loved her, but I wasn't in 614 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: love with her, you know, and to some degree I 615 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: didn't really like her and I didn't like I thought 616 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: she was losing herself in many ways. Now, you know, 617 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole were physically dead, 618 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: and it's almost like they killed me. Who I was 619 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: was was attacked and murdered also in that short period 620 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: of time, and and and once again, I I to 621 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: this day it bugs me that it seems that people 622 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: wanted me to be guilted, and that really really bothered me. 623 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: And even sometimes it's day is I'm a little calcified 624 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: to it all the day, I can, you know, my 625 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: friends and family and I because there's so many stories 626 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: in the tabloids that are not true. We we just 627 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: live with it, you know. I loved it to know end, 628 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: you know, and always loved it. And yes, is guilty. 629 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: I knew that. And it happened back in the nineties. 630 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: What a joke in other ways, that he could have 631 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: addressed the problem and not presod had true or murder. Anyways, 632 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like you were. Ron and Nicole 633 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: were physically dead. And it's almost like they killed me. 634 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: Who I was was attacked and murdered. Also, did I 635 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: just hear that Art Harris they killed him? He feels 636 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: like they killed him, Nancy. This is unbelievable, but it 637 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: explains why for so long he's able to to distance 638 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: himself in his mind from what the horror that he 639 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: did to these two people. He's he's a sociopath who 640 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: can rationalize anything he does by compartmentalizing his the murders. Uh. 641 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: And you know, as I write in my on my website, 642 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: Art Harris dot Com, that now he can no longer 643 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: run Nancy. Every time he looks in the mirror after 644 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: we hear this, we hear this confession, he's going to 645 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: look in the mirror and see the killer staring back 646 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: at him. But you know, just got more gun. You 647 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: and I've handled so many murder cases. I swear I 648 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: don't think he understands. Um. I don't think he looks 649 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: in the mirror and sees a double killer. I think 650 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: he looks in the mirror and sees the superstar. Yeah. 651 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: I agree. I think that you know, playing pop psychologists here. 652 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: I think he's, you know, uh, a narcissistic Uh. You know, uh, 653 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: person that that views himself as above all of this. 654 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: You know all of these taddry details, they're not taddry details. 655 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: These are two people that he slaughtered. Uh. And you 656 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: know what you were just discus us him with art 657 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: this this this idea that you know that they killed 658 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: him at what level of arrogance does that take? But 659 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: you know, you see this repeated over and over again. 660 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: And that's what brings us back home, Nancy, is that O. J. 661 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: Simpson is no different than anybody else we've ever investigated. 662 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: It's just that he's got a higher profile and he's 663 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: gotten away with it. You know, a lot of people 664 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: don't have the advantages that he had. You know, they 665 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 1: can't get a million dollar dream teams and the best 666 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: forensic scientists in the world to come in and talk 667 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: on their behalf. At the end of the day, he's 668 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: a thug. That's what it comes down to. Take a 669 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: listen to Simpson in his confession when she asked for 670 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: the separation, You're right in the book, I felt like 671 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: I'd been kicked in. It was absolutely socking. Her and 672 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 1: her mother had been to New York a few weeks 673 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: before that. She had talked about how happy she was, 674 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: she had gotten her body completely back, she was looking great, 675 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: she was finally wearing all her fancy stuff. Well, I realized, 676 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: of course it hurts. I didn't think it would happen, 677 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: And for two or three months I pursued her to 678 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: know end uh until I saw her with another guy. 679 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: And at that point, what are you gonna do with 680 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: girls with another guy? I mean an idiot? You know 681 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: he's still talking about her being with other people. I 682 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: mean Art Harris, Ashley Willcote, Joska Morgan. Let me throw 683 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: this to Ashley. How many beatings does it take until 684 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: Nicole finally decided to divorce. She didn't divorce him to 685 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: date other people. She divorced him because he wouldn't stop 686 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: beating her. What's so sad in this case is that's 687 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: a typical victim right. Once you become a victim of 688 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: domestic violence, it is very hard to walk away, to 689 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: know how to escape because of the cycle of domestic 690 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: violence when you are a victim. So here she did 691 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,359 Speaker 1: to protect herself, which can be very hard to do. 692 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: She got a divorce, She walked away. She tried to 693 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: get away from his abusive, abusive fists, and yet he 694 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: comes after her and kills her. So it's really a 695 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: tragic story. And Nancy, please don't make me listen to 696 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: his laugh anymore. It is so statistic, And throughout this 697 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: entire interview, does that laugh just not get right under 698 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: your skin. You just want to reach out and strangle him. 699 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: You know, I felt that when he starts laughing and 700 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about a double murder um and I guess 701 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: it's over the year has been airbrushed and edited and produced. 702 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: But a murder saying, much less a double murder saying 703 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: of this nature. It's really hard for me to describe, 704 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: having been to so many murder sayings. First of all, 705 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: this is not a asphyxiation. This is a blood letting 706 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: in the front yard. There was so much blood cops 707 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: were sopping through it. There were bloody footprints, which of 708 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: course matched up to his shoes everywhere. The victims bodies 709 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: had been lying out there for a period of time. 710 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: She had essentially been decapitated. It was awful. I've it 711 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: was a terrible, sticky, smelly, filthy murder saying with two 712 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: young people dead. You know, I I always believed Aunt Harris, 713 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: and you know, a lot more about this aspect than 714 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: I do. That he was drugged out of his gourd 715 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 1: that night, Nancy. He had been doing probably cocaine or 716 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: and had been drinking as he often did, uh, and 717 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: he felt he was in rage. This was such a 718 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: rage killing. He not have Nicole anymore, and so he 719 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: probably snapped and did not want anyone else to have 720 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: her either. She was his possession, as so many abusers 721 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: feel about the women they beat and ultimately often kill. 722 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: This is This is a man who does it and 723 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: then justifies what he's done and goes home and takes 724 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: a shower, as he says in part of this interview, 725 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: and his friend somebody gets rid of those bloody clothes 726 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: we never see again. So this is someone who killed 727 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: his wonderful wife and got away with it because he 728 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: had and could afford the best lawyer's money can buy. 729 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that got me Nancy is the blood. 730 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: There was so much of it. So how did d 731 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: n A not work well? As I write in my 732 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 1: and my my blog art hairs dot Com, That's because 733 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: they board the jury to death with the probability of 734 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: d n A, and they picked a jury that didn't 735 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: have any math, high school math or science. They knocked 736 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: out anyone who you know, who had any knowledge and 737 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: could apply it to this this bloody crime scene. And 738 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: that's how he got off. Listen to O. J. Simpson 739 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 1: talking about the night Nicole and Ron are murdered. In 740 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: the book, the hypothetical is, uh, Charlie, Charlie. Uh, this 741 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: guy Charlie shows up, the guy who had we still 742 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: become friends with. And Uh. I don't know why you 743 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,239 Speaker 1: had been behind the col's house, but it told me 744 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe what's going on over that. And uh. 745 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, well, whatever is going over there 746 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,720 Speaker 1: has got to stop, right, So we kind of hooked 747 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: up together. And you know, I'm kind of broad stroking this. 748 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: We go over, get into Bronco and go over. Let's 749 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: let's just go back and do the details. Where did 750 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: your part? You park inn, but that will go in 751 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: the alley, the park in the alley, and you've put 752 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: on of well cap and gloves. Uh. In my pathetical, 753 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: I put on the cap and gloves, and um, you 754 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: reached under the seat for a knife. I always kept 755 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: a knife and not car for the crazies and stuff. 756 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: Because you can't travel with a gun. And I remember 757 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: Charlie is saying, you ain't bringing that, and I didn't, 758 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: all right, but I believe he took it. Charlie took 759 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: the knife in the book. Yeah, so the back gate, 760 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: you go through the back gate, yes, and it was 761 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: open or broken or I don't recall. I go to 762 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: the front, and I'm looking to see what's going on. Um, 763 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: and I can see that it appears now in the 764 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: cold had flock. I had candles all the time, she 765 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: really did to keep her overhead down, I think. And 766 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: music was on. And while I was there, a guy 767 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: shows up. So Ron Goldman comes in the back ende. Yeah, 768 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: I got. I really didn't recognize I may have seen 769 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: him around, but I really didn't recognize him to be anyone. 770 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: And uh and yeah, in the mood I was in, 771 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: I started having words with him. She says to you, 772 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: I just came by to return a pair of glasses. 773 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: Judy left them at the restaurant. Yeah. I worries to 774 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: that effect, yes, And and uh he was I don't 775 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: know if I believe that. I didn't believe it. It 776 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: was pretty much immaterial because you know, uh, I was 777 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: more concerned about everything that everything that was going on, 778 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, and uh was fed up with it, I guess, 779 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: And did you get into a fight? Nicole comes out, 780 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: got a little loud and by that time, Uh, Nicole 781 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: had come out and we started having words about who 782 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: is this guy? Wise? He here? What's going on? And 783 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,840 Speaker 1: she says, this is my I was getting that the 784 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: found here, yes, and uh, which I didn't like because 785 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 1: once again, this is the same person. And if you 786 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: read the book you'll see some things that happened in 787 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,399 Speaker 1: the two weeks leading up to this that we're very 788 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,879 Speaker 1: very irritating, you know. Um. And I think Charlie had 789 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: followed this guy in one makes sure it was no problem, 790 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: and he brought the knife as things got heated. I 791 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: just remember the cold fill and hurt herself and uh, 792 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: this guy kind of got into a karate thing and 793 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: I said, well, you think you can kick my ass? 794 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: And I remember grabbed the knife. I do remember that 795 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,560 Speaker 1: portion taking a knife from Charlie. And to be honest, 796 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 1: after that, I don't remember except I'm standing there and 797 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: it's all kind of stuff around, and um, what kind 798 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: of stuff, but stuff around. Again, we were flooded with 799 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,799 Speaker 1: calls about weather, so Pson could be retried even in 800 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,839 Speaker 1: light of this confession, The answer is no under our 801 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: jurisprudence system. Nancy Grace Crime story signing off goodbye friend, 802 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: ye