Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network brought to
Speaker 1: you by Onyx Maps. Now. On X is a digital
Speaker 1: mapping app that you download directly to your phone, mobile advice,
Speaker 1: and you can even use it on your desktop. But
Speaker 1: what is great about it. The functionality here is that
Speaker 1: you can drop away points and you can mark tree
Speaker 1: stand locations, you can mark trail camera locations, scrapes, rubs,
Speaker 1: betting areas. You can document all that. So it's like
Speaker 1: a living journal of your properties that you hunt. Now,
Speaker 1: what's great about this it can be used on a
Speaker 1: small scale, let's say like a forty acre farm, or
Speaker 1: like we did on our muleteer hunt out West, this
Speaker 1: thirty three thousand acre big chunk of public ground. It
Speaker 1: can allow you to document everything that you've seen on
Speaker 1: there as well glassing points where the mule deer we're
Speaker 1: coming in and out, and so much more. If you
Speaker 1: want to find out more about the functionality of Onyx,
Speaker 1: visit onyx maps com and for first time users, you
Speaker 1: can use the discount code Nation twenty off. My name
Speaker 1: is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting
Speaker 1: Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the world
Speaker 1: of hunting the icon of the North American wilderness to bear.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, but will also bring
Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country on the planet
Speaker 1: chasing affair. This is a part of the podcast where
Speaker 1: I usually say I want to draw your attention to
Speaker 1: and I point you to some reputable business. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say that this time, but I am gonna say,
Speaker 1: check out our new hats on at Bear Dash Hunting
Speaker 1: dot Com. We're coming out with a new Flashy Hats
Speaker 1: series and we've got a hat that says bear Grease,
Speaker 1: hat that says flashy Mule, and a hat that says
Speaker 1: bared Dogs. So really colorful hats, their patch hats. They're uh,
Speaker 1: They're they're really cool. Check it out at bear Dash
Speaker 1: Hunting dot Com in our store. Secondly, you hear me
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about b h A on this podcast. UH.
Speaker 1: Check out back Country Hunters and Anglers Organization. These guys
Speaker 1: are doing good stuff. I don't care what anybody says
Speaker 1: we Uh. On this podcast, I talked about how that
Speaker 1: responses to the Florida bear hunting situation came in from
Speaker 1: back country Hunters and Anglers guys using their forum to
Speaker 1: send an email to the officials. That was a form
Speaker 1: letter that said we support bear hunting and uh so
Speaker 1: check out back country Hunters and Anglers. Lastly, this is
Speaker 1: another podcast where we're talking about uh white tail hunting
Speaker 1: up in Manitoba, Canada with Tom Ainsworth grand View Outfitting.
Speaker 1: I'm with my really good old time friend Chris Roberts,
Speaker 1: so we we kind of reminisce a little bit and
Speaker 1: tell a couple of stories, one fun story in particular
Speaker 1: from our past. But we talked a ton about hunting
Speaker 1: with Tom. Check out Tom Ainsworth. Man, I'm shooting myself
Speaker 1: in the foot because if I go back, I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's gonna be more people hunting up there. But Tom
Speaker 1: is the real deal when it comes to Canadian white
Speaker 1: tail hunting. It's a lot more affordable than you think.
Speaker 1: So check out grand View Outfitting called Tom Ainsworth. It's
Speaker 1: probably a lot more doable than you think for big
Speaker 1: Canadian white tail. Okay, all right, Kobe, we're starting a podcast. Now,
Speaker 1: can copy hear us? He's the he Colby Old Kobe
Speaker 1: produces the podcast, So can he hear us right now?
Speaker 1: I mean, he can't he can't hear us right now,
Speaker 1: but when he listens to this hell here, Colby's omnipresent. Well,
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is amazing. If Colby can
Speaker 1: hear us, Colby, can you hear us? Colby, can you
Speaker 1: hear us? I was like, we can't get the headphone store,
Speaker 1: but Colby can hear us. Oh man. We are on
Speaker 1: our way back from Canada and we just we've been
Speaker 1: deer hunting up in Canada, and I've got my longtime
Speaker 1: friend Chris Roberts with me. Um, Chris, we've known each
Speaker 1: other since grade school. Yeah, I was trying to think
Speaker 1: about that the other day. I think it's at least
Speaker 1: second grade. Well, I mean you you started school at
Speaker 1: the school I went to in kindergarten, right, Yeah you were, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you were a year older and I was a
Speaker 1: year older than you. So I mean we would have
Speaker 1: known each other, but my first memories of us being
Speaker 1: friends were maybe not real good friends, but pretty good
Speaker 1: playground friends. Um, we're in uh in grade school? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I went over to your house in grade school. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well okay, first things first, Chris, we're gonna on this
Speaker 1: pod podcast. We're gonna talk about your deer hunt in Manitoba, Canada.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about that, but we're also going to
Speaker 1: talk about some other stuff and there's a few, just
Speaker 1: like housekeeping things that we gotta get going. Okay, First
Speaker 1: thing is, I just got a text from one of
Speaker 1: the back country hunters and anglers and members down in Florida,
Speaker 1: Jim Hasley, And so right now they're revamping and taking
Speaker 1: public input for the bear management program for Florida. So
Speaker 1: and I want to say twenties sixteen, it could have
Speaker 1: been fifteen. There was a bear hunt institute in Florida,
Speaker 1: which was the first one in a long time because
Speaker 1: the bears are growing, numbers are strong, and they did that.
Speaker 1: They did a three quota and they met the quota
Speaker 1: in a very short period of time. But because Florida
Speaker 1: has such an urban population and just it kind of
Speaker 1: is the way it is, they protested it big time.
Speaker 1: And because of political political influence, basically the game and
Speaker 1: Fish kind of backed off of the bear hunt and
Speaker 1: said they were going to close it down for a
Speaker 1: certain period of time until they could do some study
Speaker 1: on it to see what, um, you know, how they
Speaker 1: were going to go forward to manage it, which basically
Speaker 1: it was a political move by them to not get
Speaker 1: pounded by the anti hunters. So right now and they're
Speaker 1: taking a public period of comment for just people to
Speaker 1: write into the government. Well, Jim told me that there
Speaker 1: have been thirty two hundred responses. This is what the
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife told b h A guys, And twenty
Speaker 1: one of those responses have been from b h A members,
Speaker 1: back country hunters and English and so right now on
Speaker 1: there's a link on the Bear Hunting Magazine uh facebook page,
Speaker 1: but there'll be links in other places. But basically back
Speaker 1: country Hunters and anglers. They're good at organizing people. So
Speaker 1: you can go in through their portal and basically send
Speaker 1: an email to the wildlife officials with a statement about
Speaker 1: how we believe that these bears should be managed by
Speaker 1: regulated hunting, scientific base wildlife management, you know, through hunting.
Speaker 1: It's a positive thing. And so anyway, we're doing good
Speaker 1: down there, but we need to pound them some more.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question, does it matter if
Speaker 1: you live in Florida or not? Apparently not, because I
Speaker 1: submitted a public comment and it and it went through well.
Speaker 1: And that makes sense because Florida is really big on
Speaker 1: especially with their fishing too. You know, they because they
Speaker 1: did actually public comments with like shark fishing and shore
Speaker 1: fishing with that and uh because I had a buddy
Speaker 1: who was going to go to that and so that
Speaker 1: actually makes a lot of sense. So they do a
Speaker 1: lot of uh, you know, people coming from out of
Speaker 1: states fishing. So I don't know how much they promote
Speaker 1: that with hunting, but I could see they're kind of
Speaker 1: set up for that. So we're doing good. We're doing good,
Speaker 1: but we need to we need to keep patting them.
Speaker 1: So we'll put we'll put a link um on this
Speaker 1: web page on the on our podcast notes where people
Speaker 1: can go and easily so you don't have to put
Speaker 1: in your information. Uh maybe you do have to put
Speaker 1: in your email, but you it's easy to do. That's
Speaker 1: point number one. Okay, Now onto business at hand, Chris. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've been road dripping for By the end of this thing,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like, uh, thirty six hours together. Okay.
Speaker 1: And so the other day on the radio or well
Speaker 1: on your playlist, came up this song called dB Cooper,
Speaker 1: dB Cooper, Tell me what you know about D B. Cooper?
Speaker 1: Tell me the story worry of d B. Cooper. I'll
Speaker 1: do my best. Um, and so I and I and
Speaker 1: I well, and first off too, I mean this is
Speaker 1: we were just talking about this. You know, I've I've been,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to stay up with Clay as long
Speaker 1: as I can. And you know, he mentioned he had
Speaker 1: a podcast, and he sends me all of his videos
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I was like, and I love podcasts.
Speaker 1: I was like, you have a podcast? And I had
Speaker 1: no right before this podcast, Chris realized that I had
Speaker 1: a podcast. Yeah, and and and sinks man. Thanks Bro,
Speaker 1: no it it. I mean he sends me his videos
Speaker 1: and all this, and yeah, if I hadn't known he
Speaker 1: had a podcast, I would have that. So you only
Speaker 1: listen to the stuff that I sent you. Well, I
Speaker 1: didn't know. How would I have known you had a
Speaker 1: I don't google Clay Nukelem. Oh you don't. I'm not,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that would be weird. Well, welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast, bro. Well, thank you, and now now
Speaker 1: you're going to get a few more subscribers. Um. But anyway,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad you you like the story. My my
Speaker 1: girlfriend wasn't as interested that I love her to death,
Speaker 1: but anyway, so it um, this story. I found out
Speaker 1: about this story and I was telling you is Unsolved Mysteries.
Speaker 1: That was a show I used to catch. We're taking
Speaker 1: it way back, yeah, I mean early nineties. I mean
Speaker 1: the host of that, I believe his name was like
Speaker 1: Robert Stack. And I apologize for anyone if if I'm
Speaker 1: not getting the correct version of this, but I'll do
Speaker 1: as best as I can. So this stacts don't really
Speaker 1: matter on this podcast. Okay, good. So this gentleman, as
Speaker 1: best as I can remember, he he hijacks the plane,
Speaker 1: um and he I want to say, he hijacked it
Speaker 1: in Seattle, somewhere in the northwest correct. Um. And he
Speaker 1: told me this story the other day, like you were
Speaker 1: the authority on dB Cooper. Well, that's what I expect.
Speaker 1: It's so he will. So he writes this ransom. So
Speaker 1: he goes to the stewardess and he get hands her
Speaker 1: her letter and he asked for two hundred He says,
Speaker 1: I have a bomb, and he asked for two hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which this was in the seventies, so this
Speaker 1: that was a lot of money back there. And he
Speaker 1: signed it dB Cooper, and he also said he wanted
Speaker 1: I don't remember how many parachutes, but at least two parachutes.
Speaker 1: Two parachutes, yeah, and um. And so anyway, they they
Speaker 1: the FBI actually gives him the money. They marked the bills.
Speaker 1: So he hijacked the plane somehow on the ground, and
Speaker 1: they they gave him the money, and they gave him
Speaker 1: the parachute right. I don't know if they landed in
Speaker 1: Seattle from like Portland or anyway, maybe hijacked him in
Speaker 1: the air, landed the plane right or it might have
Speaker 1: been as they're taken off. Um. But anyway, and so
Speaker 1: they give him the money and the parachutes, and he
Speaker 1: keeps the stewardess on there and the pilots and and
Speaker 1: they know that he knew enough about it to to
Speaker 1: fly the plane, or knew enough about planes to know
Speaker 1: that this type of plane that you could fly it
Speaker 1: with the ladder down. And he he he asked supply
Speaker 1: pilot to take off with the I guess the ladder
Speaker 1: the steps down, and they wouldn't do it. And so uh,
Speaker 1: they take off and they get up at a certain altitude,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the pilot realizes that he's
Speaker 1: lowered the steps m and is this plane full of people. Know,
Speaker 1: he's let the people off. This was a okay, this
Speaker 1: is a commercial flight, but it had people on it
Speaker 1: to begin with. And they gave him them. I guess
Speaker 1: dB had a soft heart or something. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: they gave him the money. So that was the deal.
Speaker 1: You give me the money, I'll let the people go.
Speaker 1: And he kept the pilot well he he, well he was.
Speaker 1: He was telling him he was flying down to somewhere
Speaker 1: towards Mexico or something. And so he jumped like a
Speaker 1: fool proof. Yeah, he jumps out parachutes out. Well, the
Speaker 1: weather was not very cooperative for parachuting, like like according
Speaker 1: from what I remember, it's like very few people at
Speaker 1: this altitude in this weather would live through it. And
Speaker 1: so he jumps and um and so the FBI like
Speaker 1: searched for him for days and days and never found him.
Speaker 1: They found so one of those parachutes, and this was
Speaker 1: not done intentionally, was actually a dummy parachute. Now, how
Speaker 1: could the FBI unintentionally give him a dummy parachute? It
Speaker 1: actually the FBI didn't give it to him. It was
Speaker 1: the local uh uh, the local like the local local
Speaker 1: airport or it was the local like training facility. And
Speaker 1: so they had a dummy. Yeah, they got it well,
Speaker 1: and he grabbed it. He just grabbed it and didn't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and so it was given on accident. And
Speaker 1: so they found that they found the dummy parachute right
Speaker 1: then on the ground right, didn't find the original parachute.
Speaker 1: And then like a year later or two years later,
Speaker 1: on the whatever that one of the the major river
Speaker 1: is over by Portland, they found, Now, none of those
Speaker 1: marked bills were ever spent really, yeah, but they found
Speaker 1: some buried by one of those rivers over a kid
Speaker 1: was playing with his family and they found Now it
Speaker 1: could have been just buried like they ended, like they
Speaker 1: flew out because that's kind of over by that path.
Speaker 1: Somehow they got right. But and so the FBI claims
Speaker 1: he died um. But but they never found dB Cooper.
Speaker 1: Never never found dB Cooper. Now, Wow, So so I
Speaker 1: I you know, I think he made it. Yeah, dB,
Speaker 1: if you're out there now, I think he would be
Speaker 1: retty old right now, you'd be. So why this story
Speaker 1: is relevant is unclear at this time. But we, uh,
Speaker 1: it's a good song. But we yeah, so we were
Speaker 1: listening to that song road tripping to Manitoba going up
Speaker 1: here to hunt. But I was I was pretty Uh,
Speaker 1: I was pretty fascinated by that story. I've never heard
Speaker 1: of it. So yeah, search for the song DBI Cooper.
Speaker 1: The live versions a lot better live version dB Cooper. Um,
Speaker 1: So Chris and I. Chris was always my buddy back
Speaker 1: in high school that was always ready to go. I
Speaker 1: mean back in high school, you really weren't that serious
Speaker 1: of a hunter. I mean, you grew up hunting your dad.
Speaker 1: You hud it with your dad. You were big fisherman,
Speaker 1: you were you were probably maybe maybe not a better
Speaker 1: fisherman than me, but um, but you were always ready
Speaker 1: to go. So we we coon hunted a lot. We
Speaker 1: we did. We probably fished more than we did anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we did. We did coon hunt quite a bit.
Speaker 1: But there's one story that it's kind of iconic that
Speaker 1: happened between us that we gotta tell, and that's that's
Speaker 1: the story of the canoe. Yeah. I mean it kind
Speaker 1: of shaped our lives, it did, and we did a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff together. I always had a pretty tight curfew.
Speaker 1: But my mom if I was going out with Clay,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why, but she would say you
Speaker 1: didn't have a curfew. She trusted me cur she did. Well,
Speaker 1: no I know why, but but she did. And so
Speaker 1: I mean we, I mean we we did a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff together. I mean we spent time, you know,
Speaker 1: going up on the mountain that's our our local mountain,
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean we and so, you know,
Speaker 1: we grew up in a small town and you know,
Speaker 1: there wasn't much to do except getting trouble or be outside.
Speaker 1: And Clay always liked being outside and so any time
Speaker 1: I had too. But what he's talking about, do you
Speaker 1: want me to start that story? Yeah, So, so this
Speaker 1: is the way I remember it. I was nineteen, you
Speaker 1: were eighteen. I was my first year in college. But
Speaker 1: I was coming home for whatever reason. And I think
Speaker 1: it was a Saturday, and it was in the spring,
Speaker 1: so I remember early summer. And there was just a massive,
Speaker 1: just a downpour, uh you know, like a flash flood
Speaker 1: type situation, and uh, you know, it probably rained three
Speaker 1: inches in a couple of hours or something, so that
Speaker 1: these little creeks had just swollen up. And my dad
Speaker 1: had an old canoe, just an old beat up canoe
Speaker 1: that leaked. It was a fibery glass canoe. With like
Speaker 1: an aluminum frame on the inside, and it had been
Speaker 1: he bought it from an old canoe outfitter somewhere on
Speaker 1: the Washtaw River down there, and it was just sitting
Speaker 1: at their house and uh, I think we Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if the canoe got the name. No, we
Speaker 1: had called it Old Glory. Okay. We had duct taped
Speaker 1: the leaks on this canoe and we had fished out
Speaker 1: of it, and we had also spray painted a shark's
Speaker 1: face on the front. I can remember when that happened.
Speaker 1: You're right, that canoe and the other thing. We called
Speaker 1: it Old Glory. Yeah. And this creek that we had
Speaker 1: gone by half jokingly, we had always said when it flooded,
Speaker 1: we're going to canoe that. I don't think we ever
Speaker 1: intended to. Well. I remember I came on from college
Speaker 1: and I called you and I said, Chris, the creek
Speaker 1: is rolling and because it was all my drive back
Speaker 1: to my parents house, and you said, I'll be there
Speaker 1: in thirty minutes, and so you came to my house.
Speaker 1: We had one paddle. We did not have a life jackets,
Speaker 1: and we used my dad's old He had a big
Speaker 1: hiking stick that we had carved out of a hickory,
Speaker 1: and he was mad at me for losing It's a
Speaker 1: good stick. It was a good stick. It was stupid
Speaker 1: for me to use it. But so we took that
Speaker 1: stick a paddle and we put in and I told
Speaker 1: my mom my. I told my mom, I said, Mom,
Speaker 1: I don't know where we're gonna end up, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna call you when we get there, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: come pick us up. And she agreed to this. I mean,
Speaker 1: this was before our cell phones, and we were we
Speaker 1: were just planning to take that canoe as far as
Speaker 1: we could or wanted to, and we were just gonna
Speaker 1: walk up to somebody's house and say, can we use
Speaker 1: your phone to call someone to come pick us up?
Speaker 1: And I mean, was that not the plan? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the way I remember it. And I don't know how
Speaker 1: it is. And I don't know your where your listeners are.
Speaker 1: But you know, in Arkansas where we are in a
Speaker 1: lot of places in the South, you know, when it
Speaker 1: rains and we get one to two inches in an hour,
Speaker 1: I mean it floods, and we get those yeah, we
Speaker 1: get those low water bridges, and so I mean these
Speaker 1: small creeks and so it was yeah, and so we
Speaker 1: were going but I mean we thought we were gonna
Speaker 1: be fine. And we had a leaky canoe named Old
Speaker 1: Glory that it well. So so we put into the
Speaker 1: creek and we're going down the creek and in the
Speaker 1: first hundred yards we flipped her over and we were
Speaker 1: able to stand in that it was but yeah, the
Speaker 1: creek was pretty small at that point. This creek ran
Speaker 1: into a bigger creek. We we uh, we flipped the
Speaker 1: canoe in a bunch of brush that we got tangled in,
Speaker 1: and I just remember we just flipped it back over,
Speaker 1: dumped some of the water out, and we just kept going.
Speaker 1: The canoe is filling up with water, like it's probably
Speaker 1: full of water. When we hit when Briar Creek meets
Speaker 1: Prairie Creek, and Prairie Creek was a big creek and
Speaker 1: it got really wide and it was kind of smooth,
Speaker 1: and we pulled over to the side and dumped out
Speaker 1: and we thought this is kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just remember when we when the creek merged into
Speaker 1: the bigger creek. I mean it was like, oh it
Speaker 1: was there were big waves and the creek was probably
Speaker 1: forty fifty yards wide and just just ran out, chocolate
Speaker 1: milk ran out into the woods. I mean it was
Speaker 1: a straight up flood. And here we are. And when
Speaker 1: we hit the Big Creek, I remember just saying we
Speaker 1: were in the chips. Well, we we ride for probably
Speaker 1: a quarter mile down the Big Creek and it crosses
Speaker 1: a low water bridge and we crossed this low water
Speaker 1: bridge and there's cars on either side of the low
Speaker 1: water bridge. There's a two tone duly backing up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a big truck that was not wanting to cross.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way they would have crossed. They
Speaker 1: would have for sure washed down the stream if they
Speaker 1: would have crossed. But there was there was people flag
Speaker 1: waving us down like don't do it, don't do it,
Speaker 1: And here we come. I thought they were waving at
Speaker 1: us like high, and so I waved to them as
Speaker 1: we went across it. I remember you could hear them.
Speaker 1: So the water was so high above of the bridge
Speaker 1: and the water was sucking down into the culverts like
Speaker 1: it wasn't a continuous flow, so it was coming and
Speaker 1: you would just hear wolf and I mean it was
Speaker 1: it was just this this force. But at that time
Speaker 1: we still didn't know what we were getting. We were
Speaker 1: we were This truly was one of the most foolish
Speaker 1: things that ever did. And it just shows the lack
Speaker 1: of awareness and in in we would have drowned, swamped
Speaker 1: before the bride. The fear of God inside of me
Speaker 1: and honestly, the a deep, deep respect for fast moving water.
Speaker 1: I still still have a respect for fast yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and my kids have a respect for fast moving water
Speaker 1: because of this story. So we we come across this
Speaker 1: low water bridge and I mean, we're the waters roaring
Speaker 1: over this bridge, and when it when it crosses the bridge,
Speaker 1: the creek spreads out and like gets into the woods.
Speaker 1: Like so we're I mean there's like big big trees
Speaker 1: coming up out of the water, and we kind of
Speaker 1: miss miss our the middle of the channel and we
Speaker 1: get the canoe into the woods part and I remember
Speaker 1: we t boned a tree and it flipped a canoe.
Speaker 1: And that's where I actually got that scrape on my
Speaker 1: side was hitting that tree because I got you by it.
Speaker 1: You didn't even have a paddle, you had a stick,
Speaker 1: and so you were just pushing and whatever, and so
Speaker 1: I backed back paddled and and got you buy it.
Speaker 1: And then it just hit my shoulder and I gotta
Speaker 1: and it just dumped the canoe. Well, I was able
Speaker 1: to hold, so the canoe then is flipped over totally
Speaker 1: but floating. I'm holding onto the canoe. The water is
Speaker 1: so deep we can't touch the bottom. I remember coming
Speaker 1: up out of the water and thinking, where's Chris, And
Speaker 1: so I started looking around and I cannot see you.
Speaker 1: And I'm looking over my left shoulder, holding on the
Speaker 1: canoe with my right hand, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I see Chris's wet head pop up out of the water.
Speaker 1: That's what I remember. And we were still like I
Speaker 1: was still not afraid. I immediately knew what was going.
Speaker 1: I immediately was scared. I almost want to say, you
Speaker 1: were like laughing. I think I'm serious. At that point,
Speaker 1: I still just thought this is not that big a deal.
Speaker 1: There was a cedar tree and underwater that I remember
Speaker 1: it hitting on my sins. Yeah, And I had on
Speaker 1: like high top shoes, and I remember thinking if my
Speaker 1: shoes get caught in this, I'm I'm I'm gone, you know,
Speaker 1: because like like I remember because it was it was
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was. And I remember seeing
Speaker 1: it the next day too, and so that cedar tree
Speaker 1: was hitting my sins, and and I remember thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know. Maybe I knew it was a
Speaker 1: cedar tree. I I don't know. I just remember there
Speaker 1: was a tree hitting my like I could feel it
Speaker 1: just scratching my shins, and I was I was so
Speaker 1: scared my shoes were gonna get caught up in it.
Speaker 1: And and I remember, I honestly, I think I remember
Speaker 1: you kind of giggling, not giggling, but laughing. And I
Speaker 1: remember thinking to myself, like because and I think that
Speaker 1: was because you were still holding onto the canoe. I
Speaker 1: had no canoe. And I remember just thinking I was
Speaker 1: a a baby. The amount of I mean, it was like, okay, water,
Speaker 1: do with me what you will. Yeah, we we were
Speaker 1: out of control and we didn't know it. Well. What
Speaker 1: happened was as I look up in about fifty yards downstream,
Speaker 1: there is a giant dead oak tree that was had
Speaker 1: fallen down that like I remember it being a really
Speaker 1: big log. It was huge. Yeah, like a huge tree
Speaker 1: had fallen down into the water. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: when the canoe comes up against that tree, it's it's
Speaker 1: just gonna kind pin up against the tree. I'll be
Speaker 1: able to climb up on the tree. So this tree,
Speaker 1: there's water going around it, there's water going under it,
Speaker 1: there's water going over it, but it's still on top
Speaker 1: of the water. And so you know it's it's impeding
Speaker 1: the flow. But the river is on either side of
Speaker 1: this tree by a long shop. But so I'm just
Speaker 1: holding on the canoe and I think, well, when the
Speaker 1: canoe hits the tree, it'll stick. Well, when the canoe
Speaker 1: hit the tree. And now by by this time, Chris,
Speaker 1: you had already been you beaten where Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: still behind you because I saw that. I saw what happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was still behind you. Well, the canoe basically got
Speaker 1: sucked under in a flat It was this. It was
Speaker 1: like a piece of trash flesh down a toilet. Just
Speaker 1: that fourteen foot canoe, aluminum frame, fiberglass, just absolutely disappeared. Gone.
Speaker 1: And I'm holding onto that canoe, and so I disappear.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking Clay's dad. And I mean that
Speaker 1: sounds like I'm being funny, but I remember thinking, well,
Speaker 1: Clay's dad, and I'm about to hit that too. So
Speaker 1: you were coming up against the log two, but you
Speaker 1: were out of the main current that I was and
Speaker 1: that I was thinking about this on the way up here,
Speaker 1: is because I just hit the where you went down,
Speaker 1: just hit it with my feet and my arms hit
Speaker 1: the root base and I grabbed onto that, and and
Speaker 1: then you were I mean, you can tell that how
Speaker 1: you want, but I still can't believe how fast you
Speaker 1: made it up on that. But I don't know why
Speaker 1: I didn't get more of a pull on me. I
Speaker 1: guess it was like you were saying, it's just I
Speaker 1: didn't hit that main current. Yeah, I think you were
Speaker 1: just outside of it, you know, just being outside of
Speaker 1: it five or six ft. But I remember being sucked
Speaker 1: under the water and just water pressing down. I mean,
Speaker 1: it just felt like somebody was just pushing my head
Speaker 1: under the water. And for the first time ever in
Speaker 1: my life and the only time since then, I I
Speaker 1: thought this is what it feels like to die. I
Speaker 1: really thought that. I thought this is what it feels
Speaker 1: like to drown. And it wasn't because I was sucking
Speaker 1: in water or something or or it wasn't even because
Speaker 1: it was that long. It was just because the force
Speaker 1: of the water the canoe. I just thought this is
Speaker 1: how it didn't I had enough time to think about
Speaker 1: And this sounds corny, but it is just true. Is
Speaker 1: I had enough time to think, somebody's gonna call my
Speaker 1: mother and tell her that I'm dead. I thought that
Speaker 1: because when we left, we told my mom, we're gonna
Speaker 1: call you, and I had the time to think, someone
Speaker 1: will call my mother and tell her that I'm dead. Well,
Speaker 1: I all I remember, and and it was, honestly, it was.
Speaker 1: It was just the grace of God. I remember reaching
Speaker 1: my arm up out of the water and there was
Speaker 1: a limb or root or something that I grabbed onto
Speaker 1: and was able to pull myself up out of it
Speaker 1: and crawl up on the log. I just know you
Speaker 1: made it out of the water very fast. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was. I was like, and you were still
Speaker 1: pinned up against the log down on the other side. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and I remember later you questioned this and it
Speaker 1: but and then you made me question it. But there
Speaker 1: was I swear in that root bed there was the water.
Speaker 1: But well, that's what you said, because when I popped
Speaker 1: up on the log, you said, there's a snake, get
Speaker 1: up here, and I'm like, Clay, there's a water boxing
Speaker 1: right here. And so then you're you're honestly pulled off
Speaker 1: a limb and it's hitting the root bead and it
Speaker 1: it just slithered on into the root bed and so
Speaker 1: I had to climb over where it was and it
Speaker 1: didn't do anything. But I remember, yeah, I mean you're
Speaker 1: like okay, and just went to work breaking off branches
Speaker 1: and being to scare it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember that. So we got up there, Chris on the
Speaker 1: root ball, and do you remember what we did? I
Speaker 1: remember when we I think what you're talking about. It
Speaker 1: was before we got up on the root ball. It
Speaker 1: was after we got I think it was after we
Speaker 1: climbed up a little bit. We prayed, Yes we did, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we. So now we're safe on this law and
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out how we're gonna get out
Speaker 1: of this river. And we were scared to death. I
Speaker 1: was scared, and yeah, a little bit of scared and
Speaker 1: relieved because I mean, if we had to, I think
Speaker 1: we could have sat there until it went. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it was well, I don't know, well, I remember
Speaker 1: we prayed. Remember just thank God that we were alive,
Speaker 1: because I I've I honestly have since the knocking knock
Speaker 1: on wood I have not felt that helpless. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the power of water that much force. Um, well,
Speaker 1: it was well, and you still you questioned me on
Speaker 1: us to the limb. We climbed out on it. Then
Speaker 1: that night we had we had really high winds, and
Speaker 1: we went back to look at the canoe and that
Speaker 1: limb had fallen. There was a big limb about as
Speaker 1: big around as a I don't know, it's probably fourteen inches.
Speaker 1: A big limb of this oak was hanging out over
Speaker 1: a piece of dry It was it was dead. It
Speaker 1: was dead. And we inched our way out on that
Speaker 1: and dropped about twelve feet to the bank and walked out.
Speaker 1: And I'll give you props because you went first, because
Speaker 1: you had to go over that over the water to
Speaker 1: get to land, and you went first and it held
Speaker 1: you and you dropped and I went second, and we dropped.
Speaker 1: And then the next day we came back and it
Speaker 1: would have had it broke off. And that I swear
Speaker 1: that what we did is we walked to the nearest house,
Speaker 1: which just happened to be somebody we knew, do you
Speaker 1: remember Mrs Graves, Yeah, and one of our old school teachers.
Speaker 1: And uh, we didn't call my mom, though, we called
Speaker 1: our other buddy to come pick us up. I don't
Speaker 1: remember why we did that, but we called we called
Speaker 1: our buddy. But so that was an iconic story that
Speaker 1: really just taught me to have respect for for it
Speaker 1: was just stupid at least. Yeah, it was just everything
Speaker 1: about it was stupid. Did you know that I had
Speaker 1: another significant water experience once in Alaska? I mean just
Speaker 1: it has just been the last few years. No, you
Speaker 1: don't listen to bear any magazine podcast, you probably wouldn't know. No,
Speaker 1: but I've had them coming the e er man and
Speaker 1: they it's not pretty. Once, while I was in Alaska
Speaker 1: in a boat and bear hunting, I had a me
Speaker 1: and the guide got clotheslined by a limb, a log
Speaker 1: that was hanging out over the water while we were
Speaker 1: riding up the lake, up the river, and it it.
Speaker 1: I was in the front of a fourteen foot John
Speaker 1: boat with a jet motor. I was standing in front
Speaker 1: of that boat with my back turned looking back the
Speaker 1: way we'd come, so I wasn't looking in front of me,
Speaker 1: and oh man, those Alaskan rivers are littered with just
Speaker 1: logs and root balls, and they're treacherous and Uh, that
Speaker 1: tree just clothesline me. And all I saw, all I
Speaker 1: know is I did two full flips in that boat.
Speaker 1: And I was back at the motor fourteen foot John
Speaker 1: boat and I was my head was by the motor
Speaker 1: of the john boat and the guide was in the
Speaker 1: back driving the john boat. And when I come to
Speaker 1: he is in the water. He's wearing waiters and this
Speaker 1: is icy cold Alaskan river and I see him bobbing
Speaker 1: up and down in the river, and I grabbed a
Speaker 1: stick and just dive it into the bank. Whow you know,
Speaker 1: just damn just crashing into the bank just to make
Speaker 1: it stop. And he comes floating by me, bobbing, and
Speaker 1: he's wearing waiters. I mean, so he's in in. The
Speaker 1: water was fast, but it was not deep. I mean
Speaker 1: it was probably chest deep, but moving fast, and he
Speaker 1: was able to just kind of just roll his way
Speaker 1: to the bank, and you know, he popped up forty
Speaker 1: yards downstream, and uh, but he all is all our technology,
Speaker 1: well his communication technology got messed up getting wet and stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was another thing that put that ruined
Speaker 1: that hunt for me. That was Date seven hunt, and
Speaker 1: it just took the steam out of me just yeah,
Speaker 1: it really did. It scared me and I was just
Speaker 1: it it actually again, it put the fear of God
Speaker 1: in me. I mean, just have you seen those those
Speaker 1: really small life vests that are instantaneous inflatable. Huh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should look into those when you're up there with those.
Speaker 1: I mean they're like they're like waste belts and you
Speaker 1: can just yeah, they wear them like fishing and like
Speaker 1: we'd wear them when we were sailing and stuff. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they're pretty expensive, but I mean
Speaker 1: they it's something like that. I would want one. Yeah. Well, hey,
Speaker 1: I didn't mention Chris Roberts. My buddy Chris Roberts is
Speaker 1: a medical doctor. Have you ever have you ever dealt
Speaker 1: with anybody in the er? Uh, from any kind of
Speaker 1: hunting related accident? Some more. Fishing, you get a lot
Speaker 1: of fish hooks, fish hooks. Pretty good at taking fish
Speaker 1: hooks out, Yeah, I mean that's pretty easy. The worst
Speaker 1: one I saw was a fish hook right in the
Speaker 1: middle of an eye. Oh really? Yeah? Did you have
Speaker 1: to take that out? Know that one was flown to
Speaker 1: a children's center, so you looke it and you just
Speaker 1: said take this guy surgery. I don't know. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: old a person was its teens? Really did was it
Speaker 1: him or his brother or it was? Yeah? They right
Speaker 1: in the middle of his eye, right through the Yeah
Speaker 1: the good part of that. Do you think he lost
Speaker 1: his sight? Probably? Did he really? Probably? What? What? What? Well?
Speaker 1: You probably can't well. So a lot of fishing related acts,
Speaker 1: no hunting related acts, I'm sure I have. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think. Um, I mean a lot of times when
Speaker 1: it I mean literally, I mean I worked the job
Speaker 1: I do to take AWF a lot during hunting. Um,
Speaker 1: But I mean you do get I mean I have
Speaker 1: had some gunshot wounds, but those are usually hunting related,
Speaker 1: not hunting related. No, And you know most of the
Speaker 1: uh you know, when would you think most of the
Speaker 1: knife wounds are when most of what most of the
Speaker 1: like knife knife wounds are like when people cut themselves
Speaker 1: with knives. But I don't know. Christmas morning, Oh is
Speaker 1: that right? Almost every every I've worked a lot of
Speaker 1: Christmas Is and kids will come in opening presents and
Speaker 1: cut themselves. Yeah, and so I get to have a
Speaker 1: little spill with them about Yeah, a little safety talk
Speaker 1: with Dr Roberts saying, hey, kids, you know, be careful
Speaker 1: with them. But that's that's pretty common to see kids
Speaker 1: on Christmas morning. That's crazy. Well, tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about your hunting, Chris. So, like, growing up, you
Speaker 1: were definitely exposed to hunting. I mean, your dad was
Speaker 1: a hunter, but you were not a big serious hunter
Speaker 1: until later and you know, probably when you were in
Speaker 1: your late twenties maybe. Yeah, my dad really loved hunting,
Speaker 1: and he did a lot of actually bird hunting, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, before we lost the queil in Arkansas, um,
Speaker 1: and then you know, he was a forest ranger in Mississippi,
Speaker 1: and so he he really loved turkey hunting and and
Speaker 1: was you know, did a lot of deer hunting and stuff.
Speaker 1: And so when I when I was a kid, I
Speaker 1: really loved hunting and wanted to hunt. Um. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: my dad had kind of give up hunting just you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of I don't know, it
Speaker 1: had gotten to be just you know, it was you know,
Speaker 1: it just it gotten to be too busy for him.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, it wasn't too busy. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to say it, but it was, you know,
Speaker 1: he just didn't pursue it real hard. Writer in life
Speaker 1: right later in life, and and so he still loved fishing,
Speaker 1: and so I mean we fished, you know, in high school.
Speaker 1: We were there fishing or shooting basketballs and so. Um.
Speaker 1: So I really had you know, kind of I mean,
Speaker 1: he he would take me hunting and we would go hunting.
Speaker 1: But I had to be very persistent. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: till you, after you got out of med school that
Speaker 1: he started hunting a lot. Is that right? Until I
Speaker 1: started pushing it? Um. Yeah, And so you know, he
Speaker 1: he didn't bow hunt a lot, and so I had
Speaker 1: to you know, getting back with you was where I
Speaker 1: started bow hunting a lot. And then you know, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people in med school that that
Speaker 1: hunt a lot, but for me, it was it would
Speaker 1: have been difficult. And so in medical school, I without
Speaker 1: being tuned into it, it would have been hard for
Speaker 1: me to yeah, to start that up. Well. One of
Speaker 1: the one of the things that that was fun for
Speaker 1: me to see is that what year did you kill
Speaker 1: the buck? We called gladiator? Uh? I think? Okay, So
Speaker 1: Chris contexts me, and you've lived in a different town
Speaker 1: than me. I mean, I haven't seen you in probably
Speaker 1: five or six years. To be honest, it's been what
Speaker 1: if we had it just been hit and mess and
Speaker 1: and you said, hey, I'm coming to Arkansas. I want
Speaker 1: to come see you lived in Arkansas. Okay, well you're
Speaker 1: coming northwesterna And uh, I don't remember how it happened,
Speaker 1: but I said, well we'll come up here. And well, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I gave I l I lent you my bow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we shot, we shot at my house. You liked it.
Speaker 1: You said, I'm wanting to get into bow hunting. And
Speaker 1: I said, well, hey, just take this bow and just
Speaker 1: you know, shoot it for a season and if you
Speaker 1: like it, you can buy bow. And so it was
Speaker 1: that Matthews d x T well season came around and
Speaker 1: I said, well, why once you come for the weekend
Speaker 1: and we'll hunt. And you had never killed a deer
Speaker 1: with a bow at that time. And I took you
Speaker 1: to a farm over there that I hunt a lot,
Speaker 1: and I said, Chris, shoot the first. There's no shame
Speaker 1: in this. We'll tell the short version. I said, shoot
Speaker 1: the first deer that you see. And what I'm learning
Speaker 1: is that if I tell something to Chris, he does it,
Speaker 1: I do. And the first year he saw he shot
Speaker 1: and it was a small deer, very small, but it
Speaker 1: was a young dough medium dog. It was a great uh,
Speaker 1: it's great eating. So there's no shame in that. I
Speaker 1: had to kind of talk him through that after I
Speaker 1: ribbed him a little bit. But it was your first
Speaker 1: bow kill, though, Yeah, you literally looked up. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to to two kills and one day. Man,
Speaker 1: that was a heck of a day. So we after
Speaker 1: he killed that dough, well, we went hunting that afternoon
Speaker 1: over by my house. And uh, I was taking a
Speaker 1: buck pretty serious in a certain place and and that
Speaker 1: I had another spot and I put Chris there and
Speaker 1: I said, hey, there was also a big buck in there.
Speaker 1: And I didn't want you shooting a dough and that's
Speaker 1: going in there and kind of messing it up. So
Speaker 1: I said, I said, you killed a deer this morning.
Speaker 1: You got some meat. I said, I'm gonna put you
Speaker 1: in this spot and the own didn't. I say, the
Speaker 1: only deer I want you to shoot is this this
Speaker 1: big bucket. Well, there was there was a there was
Speaker 1: a call. There there was a call to call. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a call, I mean, it was just it was
Speaker 1: deer like that, but it was a it was a
Speaker 1: deer that that you know wasn't the most attractive deer.
Speaker 1: And then there was two smaller bucks that that you said,
Speaker 1: I couldn't you know that that you wanted to wait
Speaker 1: until next year. And then there was gladiator. So in
Speaker 1: this gladiator buck was a big ten point with kickers,
Speaker 1: and he was okay, well it was a ten point
Speaker 1: with a kicker, so main frame ten with one kicker.
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I didn't think that deer was
Speaker 1: gonna show up. I didn't think you had a chance
Speaker 1: in the world with seeing that deer. I know, I
Speaker 1: figured that. I wasn't trying to put you in the girl.
Speaker 1: I was just being honest with you. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna go hunt this. I couldn't take
Speaker 1: people on this other property I was going to, so
Speaker 1: I put you on a property that I could take
Speaker 1: people to. And uh man, I'll be dang if it
Speaker 1: like four o'clock I get a text from you. But
Speaker 1: we got poured on poor and rain. Yeah, poor and rain.
Speaker 1: And you say, glad I shot that big buck. I said,
Speaker 1: I think I shot that big buck. I couldn't believe it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. And then it was poor and
Speaker 1: rain when you shot it. And basically we didn't fight
Speaker 1: until the next day after I had to leave to
Speaker 1: go on a bear hunt. Spent hours looking for going
Speaker 1: for hours and hours by yourself because I had to leave.
Speaker 1: He found the buck, was gonna give up. I said,
Speaker 1: this is a true story, I said, and I am
Speaker 1: not exaggerating. I said, I am gonna walk this one
Speaker 1: more time. And I, you know, I kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: I sat down and said, all right, you know, God,
Speaker 1: if you want me to find this buck, it's your will.
Speaker 1: And I said and I and I kind of sat
Speaker 1: down too, and I said, you know, I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: at this and see where where would I go if
Speaker 1: I was a deer, which was kind of corny, but
Speaker 1: it's you know, I was gonna walk to And I said,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna walk this in one more time and then
Speaker 1: I'm done. And I walked it one And this is
Speaker 1: never half tried this many a time before, was looking
Speaker 1: for a deer. That's never worked. I mean I tried it,
Speaker 1: you know, I have tried it recently, but and and
Speaker 1: walked it and walk it back where we had walked
Speaker 1: numerous times and looked over and there he was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and I honestly did not think he was. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was, it was it was
Speaker 1: a perseverance. It was you know, it wasn't the best shot.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a good shot. Take it. He was,
Speaker 1: you know, I just you know, I mean he was
Speaker 1: a yeah. Yeah, I hit him back, but I mean
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I took a bad shot broadside twenty yards.
Speaker 1: I just second deer. Yeah, And uh, well, and that
Speaker 1: was a really awesome experience for for both of us,
Speaker 1: and it kind of it kind of united us in
Speaker 1: a hunting sense because it was I mean, that was
Speaker 1: a good deer for for where we're hunting, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, two deer in the same day and that
Speaker 1: kind of got you going bow hunting. And since then
Speaker 1: you've done it all on your own. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you've you've Chris has lived all in several different places
Speaker 1: in the country, talking in to put me on one
Speaker 1: again over there, but yeah, you try every year. I
Speaker 1: sent him a picture and he goes, is that the
Speaker 1: deer you're gonna put me on? Um? But that's why
Speaker 1: we went to Canada together, right, What a perfect segue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we we're we're on our way back from Manitoba, Canada,
Speaker 1: and uh so we've already done a podcast. We talked about,
Speaker 1: uh my hunt, but I want to talk about Chris's hunt,
Speaker 1: because Chris learned a lot coming into this hunt, coming
Speaker 1: into Canada. Uh. We we talked a lot about judge
Speaker 1: and deer. We talked about a lot about what to expect,
Speaker 1: and uh, why don't you just go ahead and started
Speaker 1: off Chris just talking about well experience and kind of
Speaker 1: what happened. Well, first of all, I mean, I want
Speaker 1: to thank you again for taking me up here and
Speaker 1: it you know, it is it has been an amazing experience.
Speaker 1: And and you know, and that's and that's one thing too,
Speaker 1: is and you did you did bring up a good
Speaker 1: point is as I did learn a lot, and I
Speaker 1: you know, I did kill it a deer that was
Speaker 1: not as big as a deer that I intended on killing.
Speaker 1: But I'm still you know, you know, happy with that deer.
Speaker 1: But you know it it it the learning curve is
Speaker 1: pretty steep. It is steep. But but one thing you
Speaker 1: said is is I learned a lot, but you learn
Speaker 1: a lot by doing by hunting. Um And that's you know.
Speaker 1: And that's one thing is is you know, I wish
Speaker 1: that I had, you know, a long time ago been
Speaker 1: doing the stuff right now, because you know, you just
Speaker 1: got to go out and do it and learn and
Speaker 1: and and it's like, you know, with the muzzleloader and
Speaker 1: using that. That was my first time to use a
Speaker 1: muzzleoader because I'm so into bows and it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's learning muzzleoaders. And now it's like, you know, and
Speaker 1: from using that and and and so much. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so with my hunt, um, you know, Clay had been
Speaker 1: talking a lot and and maybe you know, he had
Speaker 1: been emphasizing how these bucks can be difficult to judge
Speaker 1: um and they are. Um. And part of that One
Speaker 1: of the things we're looking for up here is and
Speaker 1: and this is one of the things that Tom Are,
Speaker 1: our outfitter, was talking about, was mass. Yeah, um and
Speaker 1: uh and then and so you're looking at that, but
Speaker 1: you're also looking at extremely large deer, even body large
Speaker 1: body even on two deer over two hundred pounds for sure.
Speaker 1: What you mean when you say mass is that that
Speaker 1: is that's kind of like the thing that if a
Speaker 1: deer does not have good mass all the way out
Speaker 1: on the horn, he's probably not a mature animal here.
Speaker 1: Now in Arkansas, you can kill a spinding e ract
Speaker 1: big buck, that's probably a mature animal. UM Mass is
Speaker 1: a good indicator of age in most places, but up
Speaker 1: here that's what these The Duck Mountains of southern Manitoba
Speaker 1: has its mass and it's not necessarily known for world
Speaker 1: record scores, even though there's some incredible scoring deer. And
Speaker 1: it's only we were hunting sixty miles from where Milo
Speaker 1: Hanson killed the world record. So I mean not to
Speaker 1: say that there's not a giant deer up here, but
Speaker 1: but they're known for mass, So carry on. It's just
Speaker 1: want to qualify what you said, right, And so you know,
Speaker 1: my first day I went out and hunted and and
Speaker 1: did not see it was kind of one of those
Speaker 1: spots and that's hunting, and it was kind of it
Speaker 1: was at a spot that it's called the swamp and
Speaker 1: didn't see anything. You didn't see it here the first uh,
Speaker 1: which I mean, I really wasn't that upset about because
Speaker 1: it was kind of Tom and told me it's the
Speaker 1: spot where you don't see a lot, but a lot
Speaker 1: of times when you do. Um. You know, it's it
Speaker 1: could be that spot. There's no food source or anything.
Speaker 1: It literally is just a swamp in between two thick
Speaker 1: bedding areas, open open swamp with big tall grass, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna catch them crossing. And it was it was
Speaker 1: windy and cold. This whole hunt was cold. Um, And
Speaker 1: so was it the next day that I was setting
Speaker 1: next morning, the very next morning. The next morning, Um,
Speaker 1: we went in and we uh uh went out on
Speaker 1: in afalfa field, and uh, you were hunting on the
Speaker 1: other f alfa field. We were both on a I
Speaker 1: was on sitting on a nine acre flf alfael field
Speaker 1: and you were sitting on about a fifteen acre flf
Speaker 1: alfa field. I think, right, wasn't that even that big?
Speaker 1: Maybe it's eight acres. But apparently they like my feld better,
Speaker 1: it seemed to this time. Um. But very quickly, you know,
Speaker 1: I opened up, you know the window I was in,
Speaker 1: and so we're setting in these little huts. Tom calls
Speaker 1: them huts, Tom Ainsworth, just a little little box blinds
Speaker 1: that are on the ground. And you creep in there
Speaker 1: before daylight, get in there, and uh, what's crazy is
Speaker 1: these dear don't even hardly spook off the field. I
Speaker 1: mean are well, they don't if you creep in there
Speaker 1: without light, you're not gonna spook deer for the last part,
Speaker 1: all right. And and to me, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I've done hunts that that are you know, back and
Speaker 1: where I'm carrying in my tree stand and running and gunning,
Speaker 1: and I've done, you know, hunts on private land. And
Speaker 1: I've done you know, hunts on public land, not as
Speaker 1: many as you. And you know, I love this just
Speaker 1: as much. I mean, this is it had its own
Speaker 1: aspect of it. I'm sitting out there in cold and
Speaker 1: and you know, and so I mean it's temperature of
Speaker 1: that morning was three degrees. Yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 1: extremely cold, and so you know, and so we're we're
Speaker 1: sitting out there and you know, these some large doughs
Speaker 1: started coming out. Um. And then I quickly see a
Speaker 1: just as the sun starts the sun's coming up, and
Speaker 1: then I quickly see a buck um. And this was
Speaker 1: an eight point And so then I I got to
Speaker 1: start thinking, is this one of these deer we're talking about? Um?
Speaker 1: And me and Clay had been talking about this as long,
Speaker 1: and then Tom had also gets some input and and
Speaker 1: maybe this is where it went wrong and and and
Speaker 1: it's almost like we had emphasized it too much. And
Speaker 1: I think I'll have my take home on it. But
Speaker 1: one thing that Tom had said was if if it's
Speaker 1: if it's racks passed his ears, and I remember hearing that.
Speaker 1: And these deer were out past two hundred yards, um.
Speaker 1: And so I'm looking at him and and also too,
Speaker 1: and as you know, but you know, for for your
Speaker 1: listeners is is these deer. I've never seen dear over
Speaker 1: two hundred pounds and so these almost looked like cows
Speaker 1: coming out, um. And so I'm trying to decide, and honestly,
Speaker 1: and as I told you, I didn't. I thought that
Speaker 1: this buck was not what we were looking for. You
Speaker 1: thought he was not correct. I mean I wasn't for sure.
Speaker 1: And what we're looking for, we weren't. We There was
Speaker 1: never a score put on it. You know, last year
Speaker 1: I killed a buck in Manitoba that it was eighteen
Speaker 1: inches wide, had five inch bases and good masks all
Speaker 1: the way up, the antler ten and a half inch
Speaker 1: g two's. So I mean this big, massive frame, the
Speaker 1: buckaway two and forty eight pounds, but it scored a
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty four inches, and I think one of
Speaker 1: the coolest deer's, dear, I've seen, and I think one
Speaker 1: of the the best looking and deer you've killed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I say that to say, like we people
Speaker 1: that just think about score, you're gonna get thrown on.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's not like, Okay, Chris, go
Speaker 1: out and only shoot a hundred and fifty buck today
Speaker 1: like that. You would lose so many killer deer if
Speaker 1: you did that. And that's that seems to be the
Speaker 1: way a lot of people think, especially when they're hunting
Speaker 1: real big buck country, you know, like if you're hunting Iowa,
Speaker 1: if you're hunting Canada. But man, I'll tell you what,
Speaker 1: you'll pass a lot of awesome deer. And the truth
Speaker 1: is that most deer don't score near as much as
Speaker 1: what people say they do. I sent that picture of
Speaker 1: my buck last year, Chris to people that knew better,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't tell them what it scored, and they
Speaker 1: would text me back, and I mean maybe they would
Speaker 1: being nice, but they were like, man, that's gotta be
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty inch, dear. I had knowledgeable people.
Speaker 1: I think that was a hundred sixty inch and that
Speaker 1: was a good picture, you know what I mean? And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, one thirty four and they were like,
Speaker 1: no way. But point being is that people, when your
Speaker 1: buddy says he killed a one fifty, he probably didn't.
Speaker 1: It's just the truth. Uh So I say all that
Speaker 1: to say, when you talk about the deer, we were
Speaker 1: after a mature buck with good masks. And boy, Tom
Speaker 1: has some shed antlers and dead heads and pictures of
Speaker 1: some little deer that are probably fifteen inches wide but massive,
Speaker 1: mature for and a half five and a half year
Speaker 1: old deer that just they weren't they well he called
Speaker 1: he called the deer with tight antlers bush bucks, and
Speaker 1: he called bucks with big white antlers prairie bucks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But so you weren't looking for a one forty year
Speaker 1: one fifty one six, You're looking for a mature, heavy antler. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wanted a deer that, like he called it, coke
Speaker 1: cans and something, honestly, And so I was trying to
Speaker 1: decide if this deer had mass and and and and right,
Speaker 1: and Tom wasn't trying to throw me off, but I
Speaker 1: mean it just kind of confused because I wanted something
Speaker 1: that gave me that concrete. This is it? You were
Speaker 1: you were looking for the one thing which has that. Actually,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I think it is, um, and
Speaker 1: so it Tom said, you know, if it's out past
Speaker 1: the tears, and he kind of he probably threw in
Speaker 1: there and it's a mature buck, but I just heard,
Speaker 1: if it's out past the tears. And so I watched
Speaker 1: this deer for a while, and then he was he
Speaker 1: chased a dough and ran off, and there was another
Speaker 1: one there who who you know, he wasn't out past
Speaker 1: his ears and might have had more mass. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean these deer were out pretty far, and UM
Speaker 1: watched him for a while and they had gone over
Speaker 1: the heel and they were feeding and and and then
Speaker 1: like I said, he had ran back in closer, and
Speaker 1: I saw he was clearly as you saw. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was good what four inches past his years? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I remember thinking, well, you know this deer
Speaker 1: is so big that his mass look, you know, I
Speaker 1: con I said, this is what we're after, you know,
Speaker 1: And so uh he uh um he ran away where
Speaker 1: I didn't have a shot. And and the other one
Speaker 1: that was there I decided was not a buck. That
Speaker 1: I just I mean, he was an eight point that
Speaker 1: what wasn't maybe about past his years, but he could
Speaker 1: have had that mass. I couldn't tell. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm watching them and then, uh, they're out there feeding
Speaker 1: and he's chasing around. Well, then this buck comes back
Speaker 1: over that hill and so I pulled the muzzleloader up
Speaker 1: and he's right at a hundred and thirty four yards
Speaker 1: and uh, go to shoot and misfire, and so the
Speaker 1: muzzleloader missfires the cap. So we're using four or nine
Speaker 1: primers to shooting as two two nine. Foord is the
Speaker 1: cleaner two or nine primers, using the c V A
Speaker 1: what was accurate l R yeah, CB a Acura l
Speaker 1: R yeah, and a good gun. Yeah, misfires the cap.
Speaker 1: The primer goes off, the gun does not night, and
Speaker 1: then break the gun open and put another primer in correct,
Speaker 1: find the deer again, pull the trigger. Pop, Yeah, cap
Speaker 1: doesn't go off. Break the gun down. This is the
Speaker 1: first time I've ever had it with a muzzle load
Speaker 1: or two. Yeah, break the gun down, put another primary in,
Speaker 1: put it on the deer. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: I had was it three or four? Well, I thought
Speaker 1: it misfired three times, and you shot it on the fourth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna say. I'm pretty sure because
Speaker 1: I think you did it again. The deer don't move,
Speaker 1: the deer aren't scared. They don't even look at it, dude.
Speaker 1: And so I did it again, and it and it goes,
Speaker 1: it misfires and and I didn't know that this was
Speaker 1: even a possibility. And so I goes like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: done because I had left my ramrod in the truck.
Speaker 1: I mean this I was, you know, I was cooking
Speaker 1: with gas this day. I mean, and so I the
Speaker 1: way I remember it, as I started to lift the gun,
Speaker 1: so I and then the gun goes off. It was
Speaker 1: delayed delayed ignition. Theypmare for muslods, right, And the bucket
Speaker 1: actually moved to like a hundred and fifty four yards.
Speaker 1: I mean I had a compensated for that. Oh really,
Speaker 1: So he was moving back? Yeah, okay, and uh it
Speaker 1: was actually angling away at that time. But and so I,
Speaker 1: so I thought there's no way I hit this deer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And went and looked for blood and looked for blood
Speaker 1: and looked for blood and did not find blood. I
Speaker 1: thought there was no way. I hit this deer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it turns out I did actually hit that deer
Speaker 1: with a long story, but we found the deer the
Speaker 1: next day. Yeah, we found the deer the next day.
Speaker 1: And uh, the deer I mean been eaten to the
Speaker 1: bone by coyotes within a day. I mean there was
Speaker 1: nothing left but horns and ears in one eyeball. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that that was. And he was not what I
Speaker 1: was looking for. Yeah, and that's I mean, he was,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I don't want to take away.
Speaker 1: I mean, any buck is a you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I've I'm proud of any deer I killed. I mean,
Speaker 1: but this is a trip where I was, you know,
Speaker 1: traveling looking for Honestly, it was it was. It was
Speaker 1: a nice probably two year old deer from here, and
Speaker 1: you know, well and the fact that I didn't get
Speaker 1: his meat bothers you know. Oh yeah, you you said
Speaker 1: from the very beginning, you were like, dude, I'm coming
Speaker 1: up here to kill a big buck meat. I mean,
Speaker 1: you want a big orange too, But right, I mean
Speaker 1: I for me, yeah, yeah, I mean I make summer sausage.
Speaker 1: I make venison jersey in the deer to give you
Speaker 1: the deer was at least seventeen inches wide. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: but you know short times, short brows, short threes. But
Speaker 1: in uh, in my take home on how you mudge now,
Speaker 1: so that okay, that's where we're going now is what
Speaker 1: did you learn? So my So the next day I
Speaker 1: went out and set in the same uh said, in
Speaker 1: the same blind or whatever you wanna call it, hut,
Speaker 1: and um actually saw one of the coolest things. Um
Speaker 1: I've well, actually that night I because I thought I
Speaker 1: had had missed. Oh yeah. And so that night I
Speaker 1: said on the other um on the alfalfa field that
Speaker 1: Clay had set on. And as we're going to to
Speaker 1: um as as dusk is coming on, I hear this
Speaker 1: what I mean? I thought it was bigfoot? Um, but
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, it was a buck roar. It happened
Speaker 1: like four times. And and I actually if it would
Speaker 1: have just happened once, I would not do what it
Speaker 1: You you can you can try to replicate it goes
Speaker 1: and it did it four times, sounded just like that.
Speaker 1: But then it started a really really mature grunt, so
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have even known it was a deer unless
Speaker 1: it followed up with this a normal bat. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: really mature grunt and it's just cutting through these woods
Speaker 1: in between. Um. Uh, these two a foul fulfills. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's like the first one. I was like,
Speaker 1: what the heck was I mean, I mean, I really
Speaker 1: don't believe in Bigfoot, but I might have if it
Speaker 1: had just happened once. And but it did it four times.
Speaker 1: And then I mean, I'm pretty sure it was a
Speaker 1: roar um and then it was just grunting and I
Speaker 1: tried to record it on my phone but that didn't work. Um.
Speaker 1: But then the next morning, I was sitting in the
Speaker 1: blind where I thought I had missed that buck, and uh,
Speaker 1: I I walked to it, and I, uh, we actually
Speaker 1: got in a little earlier that morning, because we kind
Speaker 1: of barely got in, I mean for the sun, and
Speaker 1: I opened, you know, the windows in it, and I
Speaker 1: can just see these blobs out in the field and
Speaker 1: they're huge blobs and I can't make out what they are.
Speaker 1: And as the sun and actually I thought I spooked
Speaker 1: to coyote beside me. It could have been a small deer.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, but as the sun's coming up,
Speaker 1: I can you know, I knew they were dear. But
Speaker 1: as the sun's coming up. I can slowly make them
Speaker 1: out more and more, and then the one these two
Speaker 1: to my left. I still I can't make out racks,
Speaker 1: but I can make out they're fighting, and I can
Speaker 1: you can see them pushing. You can hear their horns
Speaker 1: fi and I can hear them just you know, just clacking,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, that is so cool. I've never
Speaker 1: seen bucks fight. And and the light comes up and I,
Speaker 1: you know, put my bionos on them and they're they're
Speaker 1: small box and then two and I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: making this up. It sounds like I am. And then
Speaker 1: telling the truth, Chris. Forty yards from that, two other
Speaker 1: bucks are feeding beside each other, and it's it's like
Speaker 1: they kind of looked at each other and they said, hey,
Speaker 1: let's fight. Those guys are fighting. And so they started fighting.
Speaker 1: And they were about the same size as the other two.
Speaker 1: And so they're fighting. And then fifty to sixty yards
Speaker 1: from that or these huge, massive deer and and I
Speaker 1: couldn't make them out, and so I start looking at
Speaker 1: them and I'm like, those are those are big deer.
Speaker 1: And then as the sun keeps coming up, I look
Speaker 1: up at them and they start fighting. And so there's
Speaker 1: three sets of bucks fight, three sets of bucks fighting.
Speaker 1: How many does are out there? Twelve? It was a
Speaker 1: rough gas. I mean it, yeah, I mean probably twelve.
Speaker 1: I just remember when you talk to me, you said
Speaker 1: there's twenty deer in front of me. Yeah, So, I
Speaker 1: mean it was. And and the I remember though, when
Speaker 1: I saw the two big bucks. And this is my
Speaker 1: take home point is I looked at him and I
Speaker 1: and I'm looking through the buyos and I go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is what they mean by mass And it was.
Speaker 1: And so I think my take home is is if
Speaker 1: you've hunted and you've seen decent deer, you know, good
Speaker 1: sized deer, and if you're questioning it, then it's probably
Speaker 1: not and so and and if you see you know,
Speaker 1: when you see Clay's deer on his video, and that's
Speaker 1: a gimme. But it's like if it comes out and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's what they mean, yeah, then you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it. And I mean it can be a
Speaker 1: seven or an eight point and I mean it's I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're one one fifty, you know you're probably not
Speaker 1: gonna get it from that. But to me, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's what they want. I mean, that's what they mean.
Speaker 1: And it was just that easy. And so you've got
Speaker 1: this eight and a ten just out there, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's just just too dear that just start dwarfing
Speaker 1: everything else. Yeah, man, I wish I could have seen
Speaker 1: that with you. I wish wish, Yeah, I wish you
Speaker 1: could have got some. I mean it's something i'll probably
Speaker 1: never see again. Well maybe next year, yeah if I
Speaker 1: but I'll probably be in that stand next year. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll be in the one you've been in. Kill two.
Speaker 1: I mean I'll take that. Oh man, Well you learned
Speaker 1: a tone, You've learned a ton and judging these deer. Here,
Speaker 1: here's my synopsis on judge and these deer, is that you,
Speaker 1: first of all, you've got to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: looking at a mature animal. And I talked about a
Speaker 1: ten point that I saw on the podcast with Tom,
Speaker 1: where you know, you can be looking at an immature
Speaker 1: animal and his rack may look giant, but it's an
Speaker 1: immature body. And the deer's body characteristics are not you know.
Speaker 1: And so if he's if he's out past his ears,
Speaker 1: but he's a two year old, you know that, then
Speaker 1: he's not gonna be what you're after. But boy, if
Speaker 1: it's a fully mature buck with that big extended brisket,
Speaker 1: a huge neck um sagging back, I mean up here,
Speaker 1: you're truly looking for a mature deer, I mean a
Speaker 1: five year old deer. And m boy, if he if
Speaker 1: he looks like he has any rack at all and
Speaker 1: he's got a body like that, he's a deer, you
Speaker 1: probably want to shoot. Yeah, And I and I think
Speaker 1: also too, And I think Tom would be okay when
Speaker 1: we's saying this though, But if you see that ten
Speaker 1: point of that clay, Saul and you want to take that, heck, yeah,
Speaker 1: Tom's okay with that well, And and you know, and
Speaker 1: I would have got the cool thing to me about this,
Speaker 1: And is any hunt any hunt? I don't care what
Speaker 1: you're doing. You've got to have goals and objectives. I
Speaker 1: mean you and that the goal in your objective maybe
Speaker 1: to go there and have fun and get some meat.
Speaker 1: And if that is your goal objective, then shoot the
Speaker 1: first legal animal that you see. You can also go
Speaker 1: into hunt like we did, Chris, and like I did,
Speaker 1: and my goal was to get some amazing organic Manitoba
Speaker 1: protein and to kill a mature buck. I didn't. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I didn't care if it was a hundred thirty or
Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty. I really didn't. It may be
Speaker 1: hard for you to believe that, but it's true. I
Speaker 1: would have shot a hundred and thirty inch heavy racked
Speaker 1: buck like last year and been thrilled. And uh, I
Speaker 1: just was fortunate and killed one that was a lot
Speaker 1: bigger than that. But but I had an objective. My
Speaker 1: objective was to kill a mature deer. And uh. And
Speaker 1: so whatever you set your goal for, you know, you
Speaker 1: want to hit that target, you don't want to well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's what's fun about having goals and objectives inside
Speaker 1: of hunting. Well, and I think there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 1: the fact too. I mean it's you know, I came,
Speaker 1: we've drove, you know, we've put in a lot of
Speaker 1: time to come up here to Manitoba, you know. And
Speaker 1: I you know, and I'm paying my hard earned money
Speaker 1: to to get a deer that I might not ever
Speaker 1: see in my lifetime. And and and you know, it
Speaker 1: actually bothers me more that I'm I'm coming home without
Speaker 1: me from my dear you know. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's Okay. You know, if I'm coming up here and
Speaker 1: wanting to get a deer that I might not see
Speaker 1: in my lifetime, and you know, and and you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about how those deer don't spook, but that's
Speaker 1: actually not completely true. You drive out on that field
Speaker 1: and a big buck on the second at sees you,
Speaker 1: and and and so it dough won't. But I mean,
Speaker 1: it's they're still notice. I mean, it's not like we're talking.
Speaker 1: You know, these things are walking. It's a tough hunt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there there every hunt, there's there's factors that play into
Speaker 1: the difficulty and challenge of it. And on this hunt,
Speaker 1: it's it's time and stand boy, we just pounded it
Speaker 1: out and just you just sit for long, long hours
Speaker 1: and uh and temperature, you know, I mean we were
Speaker 1: that morning that you shot your deer. It was three
Speaker 1: degrees and uh in the high temperature that day was
Speaker 1: in the uh like twenty degrees or twenty one or something,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and I think and I think
Speaker 1: that you know, and I think you that you're gonna
Speaker 1: give me some of that meat and I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: home and celebrate the life of that animal by you know,
Speaker 1: cooking summer sausage. For we're gonna we're gonna split the
Speaker 1: meat right by my for my family, Genie's family, you know,
Speaker 1: and in dear Jerky and and you know, and boy,
Speaker 1: it is different than our Arkansas deer. Say what it
Speaker 1: really is? Well? And I mean and and there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that. And and you know, people might say,
Speaker 1: you know, trophy hunting or whatnot, but to me, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: there's nothing to me. You know, it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: coming up you say, you know, goals and objectives and
Speaker 1: stuffing to have a goal up here, and that's why
Speaker 1: you come to Canada. I mean, if you wanted to
Speaker 1: gather two hundred pounds of meat to grind to make
Speaker 1: stakes out of, we would have gone over to where
Speaker 1: I took you the first year when you killed that
Speaker 1: dough and Washington County, Arkansas. I mean, we could have
Speaker 1: done it, but we drove up here. Um for for
Speaker 1: the for the getting to hunt of new landscape, the
Speaker 1: challenge of it, the excitement of it, the fun of it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, big bucks, I got zero. You know how
Speaker 1: much shame I've got for that. Look at my my
Speaker 1: hand here at zero. Mature animals older mature animals out
Speaker 1: of the population is an honorable good thing. Now, if
Speaker 1: all we were doing was cutting off the horns and
Speaker 1: telling the outfitter to keep the meat, I I, that's
Speaker 1: not cool. But but whatever, if you got to do that,
Speaker 1: you gotta do it. And and you know, I wish
Speaker 1: I could get that meat. Coyotes it brother, I know well,
Speaker 1: and that you know they they need that too. It's
Speaker 1: cold up there. Well, hey, the good news is, Chris
Speaker 1: is that good Lord will And we're gonna come back
Speaker 1: next year, me and you and uh so, hey, let's
Speaker 1: talk about our gear that we used for stained Warm.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about it. So
Speaker 1: we were we were hunting tree stand hunting temperatures that
Speaker 1: were I think the coldest that guy was three degrees
Speaker 1: and the high temperatures were in the low twenties, upper teens,
Speaker 1: even mid teens some days. And uh so, what I
Speaker 1: was wearing, I'm just gonna start with what I was wearing.
Speaker 1: I wore two pair of well one pair of thin
Speaker 1: marino woolsocks. And I put two sticky hot hands on
Speaker 1: my toes, one on top of my toes and one
Speaker 1: up on my leg like to kind of wear my ankle.
Speaker 1: Yeah where you told me the veins run down on
Speaker 1: our defeat. Yeah, the arders run down to the and
Speaker 1: then I put a fairly heavy wool sock over that,
Speaker 1: and then I used a pair of Irish setterencilates of fencilate.
Speaker 1: Just regular old boot. I mean, somebody gave me those boots,
Speaker 1: that's the boots I wore them. I wore the Marino
Speaker 1: woolf first light bass layers. Uh touching my skin. So
Speaker 1: everything touching skin was Marino wool, which was very important
Speaker 1: because we were at different times. We were sweating a
Speaker 1: little bit riding in, like you had to get dressed.
Speaker 1: Like the logistics of dressing are so crazy because you
Speaker 1: gotta get dressed before you go. And so you're riding
Speaker 1: in a truck and you're gotta walk to the stand,
Speaker 1: but you're not carrying a bunch of stuff. We just weren't.
Speaker 1: We were dressing totally. And then going in we didn't
Speaker 1: have to walk far. But and then Chris, I wore
Speaker 1: my sawbuck pants. I had the Marino wool bass layer
Speaker 1: sawbuck pants, my puffy pants uncompa gray puffy first light pants,
Speaker 1: and then the Sanctuary bibs that's what I had on bottom,
Speaker 1: four or five layers there, Okay. On top, I wore
Speaker 1: the Marino wool bass layer. I wore one of the
Speaker 1: first light uh Klamath hooded little fleece sweater, and I
Speaker 1: wore a nap gray puffy vest. Then I wore a
Speaker 1: serious puffy vest, and then I wore the Sanctuary jacket.
Speaker 1: That's what I wore and uh and I I would
Speaker 1: take at least three to four hot hands every single sit.
Speaker 1: You were a hot hand addict. We oh man, we were,
Speaker 1: we were wearing them out. I would put a hot
Speaker 1: hand in the left front pocket of my Klamath hoodie.
Speaker 1: There's a little zipper right over here. I I kind
Speaker 1: of felt like it was right over my heart, so
Speaker 1: maybe it was warming my whole body. I would put
Speaker 1: that there. I would have two for my hands that
Speaker 1: would keep in the front pockets of that Sanctuary jacket
Speaker 1: and uh. And then I would put one on the
Speaker 1: kind of the back of my neck, kind of wear
Speaker 1: your neck meets your back. And then I so those
Speaker 1: are my four hot hands. And then I would wear
Speaker 1: at least two of the Merino wool beanies and then
Speaker 1: brimmed orange beanie because you had to wear orange, So
Speaker 1: were three layers on the top. And usually I would
Speaker 1: have the hood of that sanctuary up over my head
Speaker 1: and zip it up. My my glasses would fog up
Speaker 1: and my beard was getting caught in the zipper. But
Speaker 1: other than that it worked pretty good when my zipsed
Speaker 1: all the way up. That was what I wore. What
Speaker 1: did you wear? Um? So I? So I I have
Speaker 1: to wear like a sin athetic and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to help me with some of the names. So I,
Speaker 1: but I wear like I have to wear synthetic under
Speaker 1: my wool, because so you don't the wool wool on
Speaker 1: scan with you didn't work. It's not unless I have
Speaker 1: used the arrow wol. Is that what it's Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the synthetic mixing with them. Yeah, and I do okay
Speaker 1: with that. But if I'm using straight up wool, a
Speaker 1: lot of times I'll itch too bad or get a rash,
Speaker 1: especially in real cold stuff. So I wear like a
Speaker 1: silk synthetic bass layer. And then I had is it
Speaker 1: the furnace furnace? Yeah, the furnace first light bass layer correct, um,
Speaker 1: and then actually something I you know, I think you
Speaker 1: have this problem too, But my feet give, I mean
Speaker 1: get cold. Um. And I feet got cold with what
Speaker 1: I did right well and actually this is the warmest
Speaker 1: my feet of ben. But I I've always used rubber boots.
Speaker 1: You told me to use rubber boots, yeah, and I
Speaker 1: do what you say. And my feet were never able
Speaker 1: to breathe. Um. And so I got some some of
Speaker 1: the Schnay's six under graham uh ventilate boots and um
Speaker 1: uh and I use uh some some powder in there
Speaker 1: because my feet sweat like foot powder. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: use a liner sock and then uh, I used the
Speaker 1: darn tough, real thick hunting sock. And I also used
Speaker 1: like a like an ankle sock. Um. And then I, uh,
Speaker 1: my feet, the letting them breathe is huge. Um. And
Speaker 1: then I used like this little booty thing I don't
Speaker 1: even know what it's called. Um and would put okay,
Speaker 1: So yeah it was it was a booty that went
Speaker 1: over your boots once you got in stand. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: you and you pointed out which was true. If I
Speaker 1: wait till my feet are cold, it's worthless. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I never gain it back. Yeah, And so I put
Speaker 1: them on the second I got in the stand and
Speaker 1: would throw hot hands in there, and that worked like
Speaker 1: a charm man. There was times when my feet didn't
Speaker 1: get cold, not at all. Yeah, and that wasn't every time,
Speaker 1: but it, but that was there was times. Um. And
Speaker 1: then so I wore the furnace and then um, usually
Speaker 1: I wore the the the incinerator, uh overall in the jacket. Yeah, sitka,
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to. I can't. I can't utter those words.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, that's what I wore. I just kidding. I
Speaker 1: can't lie. So you you were like you hesitating to
Speaker 1: say it. Yeah, honestly, am I supposed to make something
Speaker 1: up here? And then I, uh, but for my top,
Speaker 1: that's good stuff, man, Yeah, you know it was good stuff.
Speaker 1: And then I worked it is a little loud um
Speaker 1: and then uh, my top I wore U. I know
Speaker 1: it was first light stuff, but I don't remember. I
Speaker 1: wore the serious jacket, serious puffy yeah. And then um
Speaker 1: oh that hoodie yeah, like a Klamath hoodie. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then also that that one, and I also wear uh
Speaker 1: it's like got the little squares and under I don't
Speaker 1: remember the yeah, the panel fleece yea or and remember
Speaker 1: what they call it grid fleece, and then I wore
Speaker 1: the incinerator hat. And then you know what I really
Speaker 1: like are those fingerless wool? Uh first light glove? Oh
Speaker 1: really did you like those? Did you wear those? Yeah? Fingerless? Huh? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the correct term. What is
Speaker 1: I mean? They look like their fingerless? And then I have, uh,
Speaker 1: I have a handwarm or a sick of hand. I'm
Speaker 1: warmer and uh I threw some hot hands in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the one thing I forgot which killed me. No,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it did. And then I had a
Speaker 1: net a sick connt gator. Yeah. Um, how would you
Speaker 1: rate your warmth? I was not in a tree stand? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so I did all right? Um, I was in
Speaker 1: I was you know, we had the gear. Um, but
Speaker 1: I I was not doing what you were doing. Um,
Speaker 1: so I I did all right. There was a few
Speaker 1: times my feet got cold, but I've been colder in
Speaker 1: in not as cold weather. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what's funny. I've been texting Brent Reeves and
Speaker 1: straight Sadio. Um. We were in New Mexico two weeks
Speaker 1: ago and I was texting them saying, it is three
Speaker 1: degrees and I am tree stand hunting and Antoba, and
Speaker 1: I am not as cold as I was riding the
Speaker 1: mule in New Mexico two weeks ago. I got so
Speaker 1: cold in New Mexico. I thought I was gonna pass out.
Speaker 1: Was that just because you didn't have the gear? Well,
Speaker 1: I guess. I think one morning it was seventeen degrees
Speaker 1: and we were just kind of preparing for an active hunt,
Speaker 1: so we didn't wear tons of clothes and it just
Speaker 1: never got warm that day, and I was so cold. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a time when I actually it's never happened
Speaker 1: to me before, but I actually started getting almost nauseous.
Speaker 1: Where you had higher altitudes, yeah, we were like eight
Speaker 1: thousand feet that probably had a big party. But I said,
Speaker 1: it's three degrees in Manitoba and I'm tre sta and hunting,
Speaker 1: taking a ten mile per hour win in the face,
Speaker 1: and I'm not as cold as I was in New
Speaker 1: Mexico ten days ago. But but but you stayed you
Speaker 1: stayed pretty warm with your Yeah. Well, to me, that's
Speaker 1: the fun of this hunt. There's there's a challenge inside
Speaker 1: of just taking the brutal cold. And I was hunting
Speaker 1: out of a tree saddle, a tethered tree saddle for
Speaker 1: two afternoons, I guess. And then I tree stand hunting
Speaker 1: two mornings out of a just a stand. I wasn't
Speaker 1: a tree stand one. You were in a tree stand
Speaker 1: that windy day. And I for my feet because I
Speaker 1: didn't put on the booty booties until my feet got cold.
Speaker 1: Yeah that was a mistake. Yeah, well, uh, is there
Speaker 1: anything else we're supposed to talk about? Chris? We kind
Speaker 1: of had a running list. We wanted to tell the
Speaker 1: canoe story. We wanted to uh we mainly want to
Speaker 1: talk about Judge and deer and talking about your experience
Speaker 1: up here. But uh no, man, it's been really really
Speaker 1: fun hunting with you, and uh yeah, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna do it again. Good Lord Willing and people if
Speaker 1: they're interested in where we hunted. Uh, we did a
Speaker 1: We did a podcast with Tom Ainsworth. Holy cow, what
Speaker 1: a guy. Oh I mean you won't mean you would
Speaker 1: You wouldn't even have to go hunting with Tom to
Speaker 1: come up here and have a good time. Tom seventy one,
Speaker 1: and he is a classic Canadian just salt of the
Speaker 1: earth rancher, hunter, outfitter. It kind of makes you feel
Speaker 1: bad in the fact, it's like, you know, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: a thirty seven or thirty eight. I'm September. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight. Um, he I'm pretty sure the guy
Speaker 1: could out work me up. And I mean the guy,
Speaker 1: I mean he and you know, we're looking for my
Speaker 1: dear and I would go somewhere and I would be like,
Speaker 1: I think this is a good Now granted it's his land,
Speaker 1: but I would go here and I'd be like, I
Speaker 1: think this is a good trail, and I would see
Speaker 1: a boot print and Tom's already gone down at it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's just the six six, lanky guy without an ounce
Speaker 1: of fat on him, and he just, yeah, really is
Speaker 1: an incredible shape. Yeah. And he, I mean he would
Speaker 1: just I mean he doesn't. It takes a lot to
Speaker 1: get him upset, and he just you know, he's just
Speaker 1: always happy, you know. And yeah, good guy. Well he
Speaker 1: uh and Deb she's awesome. Yeah. You feel like you're
Speaker 1: just going to your friend's house and hunting with him
Speaker 1: for a week, eat at Tom's table, home cooked meals
Speaker 1: every single meal, stay at our own little bunk around Skylie.
Speaker 1: It's just fun. There's just no other way to describe it.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not like a wilderness adventure hunt. I
Speaker 1: mean it's just fun. There's just farm country whitetail hunt.
Speaker 1: It's almost like going to Yeah, you're you're it's almost
Speaker 1: going like a like a holiday. Yeah, like going home
Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, I don't necessarily want to say that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this hunt is cheap. Yeah, I mean this is a
Speaker 1: three thousand dollar hunt. Yeah, I'll just say that. I
Speaker 1: mean that's what it cost, and that's that's a lot
Speaker 1: of money. That's a lot of money for me. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of money for a lot of people. Um,
Speaker 1: And but almost anybody if they set their mind to
Speaker 1: save up that money and it was right for them,
Speaker 1: you know, Chris, I would you know, some people like
Speaker 1: see people that travel and hunt and just assume that
Speaker 1: maybe that's something that they should do. And I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think that it is. I mean, there's certain time
Speaker 1: periods in your life when that's just not in the
Speaker 1: cards and that's okay. You know. So if you're thirty
Speaker 1: years old and building a business and have young kids,
Speaker 1: I mean, it may not be the time for you
Speaker 1: to spend three thousand dollars on a hunt and be
Speaker 1: gone for nine days. And you know, so I say
Speaker 1: that to say because sometimes I think people see I
Speaker 1: feel it because I I do travel a lot in hunt.
Speaker 1: But but this is my you know this, this is
Speaker 1: this is part of my business. This is what I do.
Speaker 1: This is calculated into my family and we you know,
Speaker 1: my family is on board with what we're doing. And
Speaker 1: and so anyway, because I don't want to throw around
Speaker 1: a number, say, ah, three thousand dollars, that's easy, you
Speaker 1: could do it. Well, maybe you shouldn't do it, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys that are in a stage
Speaker 1: of life when that's doable in comparison to a lot
Speaker 1: of other hunts too. Oh yeah, I think most people
Speaker 1: think a big Canadian white tail hunt would be five
Speaker 1: to seven thousand dollars, and it's not. This is this
Speaker 1: is a bird nest on the ground. To be honest
Speaker 1: with you, And you know what, We're gonna cut this
Speaker 1: out of the podcast because I don't want anybody kind
Speaker 1: of upset me with telling that much. Yeah, those two
Speaker 1: bucks that we're fighting, man, they're still out there right now,
Speaker 1: They're still there. You know what. We want to help
Speaker 1: Tom because he surely helped us. Man, what a guy dab.
Speaker 1: I just it's just so much fun going up there.
Speaker 1: But you won't be able to go the week that
Speaker 1: we're going because we'll be there. But feel free to
Speaker 1: come after us. Don't come before us because we you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of need to pick of the farm. But nah, Chris,
Speaker 1: can you think of anything else? Any closing comments? This
Speaker 1: is your first time on the Baroning magazine podcast and
Speaker 1: knowing that there was a bear hunting magazine podcast. It's
Speaker 1: just true, Um, I would say, you know, it's I.
Speaker 1: I appreciate everything you do for hunting and everything you've
Speaker 1: done for me, and uh, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: big things I've learned is, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: big things that you told me is you can't you know,
Speaker 1: the best way to get to know ah Land is
Speaker 1: is to hunt it. And you know, and I find
Speaker 1: that true and true is as you've got to hunt
Speaker 1: it and learn. You know, it's okay to make mistakes
Speaker 1: and it's okay, but learn from it, um. And that's
Speaker 1: you know, and it you know, it's you know, in
Speaker 1: the medical field, I don't like it. You know who
Speaker 1: people who won't admit that they're they're wrong or make mistakes,
Speaker 1: and that's the same thing. And anything it's you know, say,
Speaker 1: you know, I made a mistake, I'm sorry, and you know,
Speaker 1: here's how we're gonna learn from it. That's that's the
Speaker 1: way to do life, I think, And and that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's my two cents. Well, hey, I appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 1: This has been a ton of fun. So keep the
Speaker 1: wild places wild because that's where the bears and the
Speaker 1: big Canadian white tail bucks live