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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful young girls go

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Speaker 1: out for the afternoon at a public park, a trailhead,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. They're never seen alive again, and even

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Speaker 1: now the search goes on for their killer. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories Live at Crime Con in New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody, of course, I'm talking about the unsolved murders

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Speaker 1: of the two little girls, Liberty and Abigail on that

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Speaker 1: Delphi Bridge. Some of my most important guests are all

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Speaker 1: of you here to help put together the clues left

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Speaker 1: behind and hopefully bring home a killer and put him

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Speaker 1: where he belogs, and that is behind bars. With me

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Speaker 1: an all star panel to lead us through the facts

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Speaker 1: that we know. Judge Ashley Wilcott, forensic professor at Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, Joseph Scott, Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Egan, and now

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Speaker 1: our special guests from Delphi. My name is Mike Patty

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Speaker 1: from Delphi, Indiana. I'm the grandfather of Liberty German, and

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Speaker 1: we're here to spread awareness and information about our case

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Speaker 1: that's still unsolved. We're still chasing the guy who murdered

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Speaker 1: our girls, and with events like this and the support

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Speaker 1: of people like you, we hope to continue to spread

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Speaker 1: the word and spread the information because there's a guy

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Speaker 1: out there somewhere who murdered our girls, and we're out

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Speaker 1: here to catch him. And thank you for your support.

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Speaker 1: I see you even see some T shirts from last year,

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Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you for your support. I'm Ericerskin

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Speaker 1: and I'm Abigail's grandpa and I'm from Delphi, Indiana as well,

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Speaker 1: and I like to thank you for the opportunity and

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Speaker 1: Crime Conton to allow us to come and share our story.

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Speaker 1: And we got a table up on the third floor,

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Speaker 1: and if you want to help us out, we've got

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Speaker 1: some flyers and we'd love to talk to you and

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Speaker 1: help share our story and our message. So thanks for

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Speaker 1: having us. You know, I want to start where I

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Speaker 1: start a lot of cases when I would try cases,

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Speaker 1: investigate cases, report on cases. I want to talk for

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Speaker 1: just one moment about Delphi because the actual location and

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Speaker 1: I don't mean the trustle bridge for those of you

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Speaker 1: just joining us, were talking about two beautiful little girls

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Speaker 1: that were kidnapped and lost their lives off a trestle bridge.

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Speaker 1: What I mean by that is one of those suspended

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Speaker 1: railroad bridges that was in an open area kind of

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Speaker 1: like a park. Would you call it a park. It's

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Speaker 1: part of the trail system. Yeah, that's a better description.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a park as you would know it

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Speaker 1: in a sythe or a suburb. It's just as he said,

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Speaker 1: there's a trail. There are trails going around it, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of people go there, so in that way,

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Speaker 1: it's akin to a park, but it's more like a

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Speaker 1: trail setting. And there's the bridge, and we know the

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Speaker 1: girls who were on the bridge because they took photos,

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Speaker 1: just like my children. That was a real struggle to

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Speaker 1: decide to give them cell phones, and I regret it

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Speaker 1: every day that I did, but they've got them now.

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Speaker 1: They can't sign the bag. But these they thought to

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Speaker 1: take a photo of a guy approaching them. And I

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Speaker 1: find that in itself very very interesting because guy people

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Speaker 1: walk by I saw all the time, and my twins

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Speaker 1: don't think to take out their camera and take a picture.

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Speaker 1: So something led them to take that picture. But I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you guys, if you could tell us

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Speaker 1: about Delphi. There's a very low crime rate. How big

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Speaker 1: is it? Where is it how close is it to

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Speaker 1: an interstate or an airport, And that's a very significant

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Speaker 1: in this investigation. Okay, I think we're between two and

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Speaker 1: three thousand people in Delphi. It's a rule setting. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of farming community around that. As far as

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Speaker 1: an airport goes, it's the commercial airport is in Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: about sixty miles away. Some of the local you know,

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Speaker 1: we have a few local factories there in Delphi. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's pretty small. It's a we have a hog

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Speaker 1: plant or a you know, swine operation there. It's just

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Speaker 1: your typical small Midwest town, you know, where nothing happens.

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Speaker 1: It's usually pretty boring, you know, Friday night football games

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Speaker 1: and basketball games, you know, from the high school. And

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Speaker 1: then the trail system that goes around town. That's we

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Speaker 1: used to take the kids in there and we put

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Speaker 1: the bikes because we live out in the country a

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Speaker 1: little bit. We'd build the bikes in the back of

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Speaker 1: a pickup and going there and ride trails all over town.

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Speaker 1: It's a very common place. I mean, that's what somebody

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Speaker 1: in a neighboring town know about that trail. Sure you

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Speaker 1: get if you google Delphi and historic trail systems. I

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Speaker 1: mean there's information out there. Okay, you say Google, but

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Speaker 1: with somebody in the next town over or the next

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Speaker 1: town over know about the trestle bridge and that trail system.

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Speaker 1: Sure that bridge is one hundred years old something of

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Speaker 1: that nature. It's a part of an you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: non operating railroad system. So I would say very common.

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Speaker 1: You know the people in the area, don't you know

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Speaker 1: what they're saying is really significant to the investigation, Uh,

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Speaker 1: to you. Joe Scott, Joe Scott Morgan with us. He

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Speaker 1: is a professor. Friends, it's at Jacksona State University. He's

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Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to have you with us. Just got the

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Speaker 1: significance of that in a nutshell, A nutshell that's got

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Speaker 1: that big Let me just say a peanut shell, not

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Speaker 1: a walnutshell. Go ahead. Yeah, Delphi is markedly isolated. This

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Speaker 1: is in my opinion, this is not someplace that you

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Speaker 1: wind up by accident. This is something that is known.

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Speaker 1: It is a location that is familiar. And this railroad trestle,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you know a lot of us are from

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Speaker 1: the rural areas of the country. We have specific locations

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Speaker 1: like that that are known to us. You know, they'll say, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going down to the tracks, we're going down to

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Speaker 1: the bridge, We're going down to the railroad trestle, or

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Speaker 1: down to you the covered bridge or whatever. That's probably

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Speaker 1: a significant area. People would have to know that. Right

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Speaker 1: in Macon, where I grew up in Big Cawn, I

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Speaker 1: need not even in the incorporated city would go is

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Speaker 1: that by seven bridges. Nobody would know that unless you're

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Speaker 1: from there, which is a series of bridges over swamp

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Speaker 1: area with me Ashley Wilcot, judge lawyer anchor. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at ashe Wilcott dot com. Ash The significance

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Speaker 1: of it being a rural area, it's important. It's a

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Speaker 1: huge importance. So I think if it were metro, you'd

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Speaker 1: think it could have just been a crime of opportunity.

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Speaker 1: When you think of rural, I think of probably not

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Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity. Probably someone went there with a plan,

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Speaker 1: and I think that they will do it again if

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Speaker 1: they're not caught. I just it's hard for me to believe,

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Speaker 1: guys that this was the purpse first time at the rodeo,

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Speaker 1: to go from zero to two hundred mph in one day.

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Speaker 1: And this is anecdotal, but I guarantee, I bet you

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Speaker 1: there are statistics to back it up. Whenever I would

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Speaker 1: have a murder or an assault of this nature. It

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Speaker 1: was not the first offense. There had been a peeping tom,

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Speaker 1: there had been a grab and snatch, there had been

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Speaker 1: something leading up to that, and that makes me think

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Speaker 1: the per had offended before, whether or not he was caught,

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Speaker 1: which means he wouldn't be in the system if he

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Speaker 1: wasn't caught. And I want to know your thoughts on that. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's purely speculation, obviously, Yeah, I would think that the

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Speaker 1: person who did this, I don't I can't say whether

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Speaker 1: they've done it before or not. Sure like I find

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Speaker 1: that information out when we get him in custody, you know.

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Speaker 1: But more importantly, I want to make sure he doesn't

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Speaker 1: do it again, you know, so when we get him caught.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure he has to have something in his

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Speaker 1: past that triggered this. I mean, normal people don't do

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Speaker 1: things like this, you know. I know we're trying to

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Speaker 1: trying to understand the psychics of why people do these

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Speaker 1: kind of things to other human beings. Can I just

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Speaker 1: correct you? Because I used to do that in court,

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Speaker 1: and after about five years literally I'm trying cases, I

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Speaker 1: finally said, I'm going crazy trying to figure out why,

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Speaker 1: and that is not my job. My job is to

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Speaker 1: identify who did it and prove the case and know

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Speaker 1: in my heart I got the right guy so I

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Speaker 1: can stand in front of a jury and explain it

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Speaker 1: to them. So by why, I don't have time to

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Speaker 1: think about why. I'm trying to figure out who. And

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Speaker 1: if I thought for a minute that this guy had

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Speaker 1: offended before, that would give me a clearer picture of

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Speaker 1: who do you think from? What do you know that

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Speaker 1: this person is offended before? I, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: agree with what Mike says. We don't know, but you

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Speaker 1: could speculate all day, and what we do know the

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Speaker 1: fact is that he took our girls. And that's the

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Speaker 1: bottom line. And uh, I agree with you that. UM.

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Speaker 1: We've all lost a lot of sleep trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out why and how could somebody do this? Um, But

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Speaker 1: the bottom line is they're out there, and so we

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Speaker 1: have to share the message and stay on track, UM,

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Speaker 1: and and share the photo that the police feel most

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Speaker 1: confident with at the sketch that they're most comfortable with

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Speaker 1: and um, so in our fear as families that somebody

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Speaker 1: doesn't do this once and then turn over a new

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Speaker 1: leaf and and and never never do horrible, horrific act

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Speaker 1: like this. So um, that's you know, another element that

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Speaker 1: you know drives us to you know, to stay on

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Speaker 1: track because that we don't want any other families to

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Speaker 1: suffer what we've gone through at the you know, the

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Speaker 1: hands of the person like this Crime Stories with Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace league and joining us everybody Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Let's give me a nutshell at the beginning

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Speaker 1: and then bring us up to date. Okay, Nancy, Well,

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Speaker 1: the girls on February thirteenth, they went out for a

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Speaker 1: walk February thirteenth, so it's called it was cold, yes,

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Speaker 1: And they went on a walk on the Mononheigh Bridge.

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Speaker 1: And according to Indiana State Police Doug Carter, this is

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Speaker 1: a type of bridge where you have to know what

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Speaker 1: you're doing because it's rickety. Some ropes are falling off,

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Speaker 1: so you have to have been on that bridge before

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Speaker 1: to be able to just to walk freely on it.

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Speaker 1: So obviously these girls they asked their parents permission and

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Speaker 1: they went on the bridge and it was a typical day,

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Speaker 1: you know, many children did that. It wasn't like they

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Speaker 1: were off in some secluded area. This is like a

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Speaker 1: park area. And on that particular day, there happened to

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Speaker 1: be a stranger on the bridge with them, and the stranger,

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Speaker 1: one of the little girls, obviously felt fear, pulled out

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Speaker 1: to her phone and recorded him saying down the bridge.

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Speaker 1: From that point, that's the last anyone heard from them.

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Speaker 1: And then the following day police found the girl's bodies

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Speaker 1: not far from the bridge in a ditch hold on

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Speaker 1: we've got a question, right, hear it? But to spring

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Speaker 1: forward from there, the search goes on. At first, the

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Speaker 1: families couldn't take in that they were actually missing, and

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Speaker 1: because it seems so surreal, there has been a massive

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Speaker 1: effort put into catching the part. And recently a photo

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Speaker 1: was released of a somebody already with a record that

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Speaker 1: really looked a lot like the guy on the bridge.

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Speaker 1: And remind me, Ash, I want to circle back to

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Speaker 1: how you can enhance photos and get a better look

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Speaker 1: of who was on the bridge. What's your question? All

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Speaker 1: My thought is school was out that day. That person

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Speaker 1: is he would know schools out there that day, and

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Speaker 1: there could be children on the track, women on the track,

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Speaker 1: so it's out that day. They would be familiar with

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Speaker 1: that schedule. Possibly. Yeah, what day of the week was it, guys?

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Speaker 1: It was a Monday. Yeah, and just a couple of

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Speaker 1: things that no disrespect. But it was actually fairly warm

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Speaker 1: that day. It was T shirt weather. It's like sixty

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Speaker 1: five degrees, uncannily warm for February thirteenth in the midday.

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Speaker 1: Guy has on a hoodie and a jacket and a

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Speaker 1: lot of clothes. It's a great point you picked up

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Speaker 1: on that. I mean, in fact, it was homeless. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the girl earls when they left, they didn't they didn't

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Speaker 1: want to wear it, even take a sweatshirt. They were

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Speaker 1: in T shirts. My wife said, no, you guys, grab

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Speaker 1: a sweatshirt. In fact, m Kelsey dropped them off, She said,

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Speaker 1: you grab the sweatshirts and take them with you. You

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Speaker 1: know what, I think I remember them telling me that

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Speaker 1: why is she or that she made him take something

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Speaker 1: with them. Yeah. I do that to Lucy all the time.

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Speaker 1: John David will do it without a problem. Lucy is

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Speaker 1: the issue. She's eighty pounds of hair and eyelash. Ask

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Speaker 1: that's it. That's what she is? You know? Interesting? He

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Speaker 1: has on a shirt it looks like a shirt, a

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Speaker 1: hoodie and a jacket and a hat for sixty five

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Speaker 1: degree weather. Now what does that say to you? Overdressed

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Speaker 1: is what I saw. I know that, But what can

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Speaker 1: I deduce from it? Why is he dressed like that?

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Speaker 1: Because he didn't have a car to leave the stuff in,

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Speaker 1: because he had to wear it, because he's homeless and

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Speaker 1: he's wearing everything he's got. He didn't look holess to me.

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Speaker 1: But why would he be wearing all that? What's he

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Speaker 1: hiding underneath? Yes, ash to the photo, because I swear

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Speaker 1: I do not think this guy looks like the photo.

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Speaker 1: To me, the photo is the more reliable thing. But

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Speaker 1: they had to enhance it and enhance it, enhance it.

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Speaker 1: So what do we really know about the photo? Right? So,

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Speaker 1: from a judicial perspective, when I see evidence come before

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Speaker 1: me and it's a photo Nancy, often after they've enhanced it,

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Speaker 1: enhanced it, enhanced it, it does look different than maybe

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Speaker 1: a shot like this where you can't see the entire

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Speaker 1: face of the man in the photograph. But I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you this, this is what's interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: Usually when they enhance and hands and hands. It looks

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Speaker 1: so much like the defendant. I am here to tell you.

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Speaker 1: I see the evidence presented. It's like, holy moley, those

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Speaker 1: drawings often do look like the person charge with the crime.

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Speaker 1: So this when I struggle with because I agree with you,

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Speaker 1: does it look exactly like the person in the photo

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Speaker 1: from what we can see in the photo? No, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to me to me, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a killer. What do you guess? Well,

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Speaker 1: the new information and the new sketch that came out

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Speaker 1: in April, you know, because I get asked that question.

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Speaker 1: You know, how how do we get here? Now we've

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Speaker 1: been going for two over two years. Well, what that

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Speaker 1: has done? And really we were at crime Con last year.

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Speaker 1: We're sat down with you. Tips come come pouring in

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Speaker 1: after crime Con. All that information has allowed this case

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Speaker 1: to move to the next step. There may be another

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Speaker 1: step after this one. These were in These sketches are

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Speaker 1: taken from eight witness people who saw people out there

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Speaker 1: in that area around the bridge and are on the

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Speaker 1: trails that day. Obviously the picture that is on the

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Speaker 1: flyer and if you actually go out there. We've released

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Speaker 1: a couple of steps of him walking like two and

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Speaker 1: a half steps that be it captured on a video.

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Speaker 1: That's the guy we want to talk to. We haven't

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Speaker 1: talked to that guy yet, you know. And so the pictures,

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Speaker 1: the first one that was out there. We've collected enough

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Speaker 1: information and there was over forty thousand tips on that,

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Speaker 1: so that information is allowed police or an investigators the

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Speaker 1: law law enforcement group to either make a determination that

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Speaker 1: that first sketch that while that guy may have been there,

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Speaker 1: may not have been in the area that date. But

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Speaker 1: they've collected enough information that says we got an information

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Speaker 1: now that says this is our guy, and they think

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Speaker 1: he's more local as if you noticed, Doug Carter made

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Speaker 1: that in his press release. Now if I if I

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Speaker 1: was local, I wouldn't be anymore after they're released something

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Speaker 1: like this. So that's why we're here. You know, he

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Speaker 1: could be anywhere you travel across the US, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean we both drove all the way down here

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Speaker 1: from Indiana, you know, a day. So where could he be?

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Speaker 1: Could be here, could be there. I don't know. Do

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Speaker 1: you believe that police could get any DNA could could

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Speaker 1: get you said, there's DNA at every crime scene that's

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Speaker 1: what they tell me. That's true. Jes Scott explained there

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Speaker 1: is DNA at every crime scene, whether you get it

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Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, there is, and it depends upon how

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Speaker 1: you process the scene. Keep in mind DNA is very

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Speaker 1: very fragile. But again, on the other hand, it can

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Speaker 1: be resilient and that's heavily dependent upon how crime scenes

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Speaker 1: are processed. My belief is that great care, great care

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Speaker 1: was taken on the part of the investigators at the scene.

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Speaker 1: This is not something that they rushed. It was not

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Speaker 1: something that they just kind of haphazardly went through. They

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Speaker 1: took their time in collecting this. What do you mean

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Speaker 1: by resilient, Well, depended upon where the DNA is, okay,

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Speaker 1: and no disrespect in any way. But if the DNA

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Speaker 1: is literally on their person, on the bodies, okay you can.

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Speaker 1: But that's the reality is is that the touch DNA

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Speaker 1: is if you guys will think about this, if you'll

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Speaker 1: put like talcum powder in your hands and take it

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Speaker 1: and go like this, that's sluft dead skin cells. We

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Speaker 1: lose I don't know, one hundred thousand per day, so

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Speaker 1: you're dropping DNA all the time. So it's very very

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Speaker 1: fragile and it can be lost. But if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a biological deposit, let's say any kind of body fluid,

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Speaker 1: that's a bit more resilient. Also, if everybody right now

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Speaker 1: will just look at your fingernails, okay, anything that's beneath

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Speaker 1: your fingernails can latch on and these can be collected.

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Speaker 1: At this point, though we don't know what the police have.

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Speaker 1: They have alluded to the fact that they do in

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Speaker 1: fact have DNA sample that's been alluded to, but we

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Speaker 1: don't know in what form that is. Crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, nobody saw any struggle of him pulling the girls.

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Speaker 1: If there were other people out there walking or jogging

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Speaker 1: or riding their bikes. Nobody saw a struggle ensue at

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Speaker 1: all on the trestle bridge. Do we know I'm not

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Speaker 1: aware of You know, the police have not told you

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Speaker 1: anything along that lines. Then how do you think, other

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Speaker 1: than showing a weapon underneath all those clothes, did he

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Speaker 1: get them to follow him. You also got to remember

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a thirteen and fourteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: A grown man could be pretty intimidating in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: to somebody, Nancy, Can I just say one more thing

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Speaker 1: relative to this point. We're talking about a grown man.

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Speaker 1: All right, y'all heard his voice? Okay, Now, one thing

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Speaker 1: that came out that they remember the little what was

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Speaker 1: the little piece that they added? What did it? Was

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Speaker 1: a directive? What did he say? He said? Guys? And

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Speaker 1: if you listen to that very carefully, you know I'm

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Speaker 1: a daddy, all right. So guys, he's trying to get

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Speaker 1: somebody's attention, guys like, I want your attention. This is

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Speaker 1: what I want you to do. And then he says, downhill, downhill, guys, downhill.

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Speaker 1: You've got a grown man talking to these little angels

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Speaker 1: out there. They're by their self in this environment. He's

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Speaker 1: given them a directive, and that's you know, that's what

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Speaker 1: I think. I don't I don't know that he's willed

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Speaker 1: in a knife or anything like that. You got a

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Speaker 1: grown man. It's telling them to do this. I'm likely

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be compliant. Tell me about them. What would

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Speaker 1: their nature be? Would they if they were told by

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Speaker 1: an adult to do something? Would they do it? Or

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Speaker 1: would they have known enough to run or fight? What

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Speaker 1: are what were the natures of Abigail and Liberty? Well,

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Speaker 1: one thing that always sticks in my mind as they

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Speaker 1: stuck together. We don't know the events other than the

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Speaker 1: guys down the hill. They stuck together, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've lost a lot of a lot of sleep trying

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Speaker 1: to run that scenario through our minds. Um, so you

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Speaker 1: can um think about there there could have been a weapon.

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Speaker 1: We don't know, Um at that moment. Why we know

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Speaker 1: there were the other people visiting the trails that day.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's there's been uh you know, we know

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Speaker 1: that there are people before and after that's documented. Um

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Speaker 1: you know, so was this scouted? I mean at that

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Speaker 1: moment that location, that person looked around and knew that

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Speaker 1: within I sight that there was nobody present. We don't

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Speaker 1: know did he already have a grasp for one of

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Speaker 1: the girls. And also they were up on a trestle.

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Speaker 1: What Effie had said, I'll push you off, Whitten need

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Speaker 1: a weapon? Or do you think that Abby Liberty would

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Speaker 1: have gone along just because he ordered them to My opinion,

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Speaker 1: for for Livy, she would have tried to give the

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Speaker 1: guy space, like just leave me alone. You know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm in my own world. I don't need you in

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Speaker 1: my space. But my first reaction is as she said

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Speaker 1: down the hills. She probably if I have told her that,

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Speaker 1: she said, you go down the hill. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: down here. You know, I don't know if she would have,

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Speaker 1: you know, said that to him or not. But you know,

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Speaker 1: like Joe was saying, you got a man who's a

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Speaker 1: stranger to them. Um, that that gives a directive, you know,

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Speaker 1: a direct order or direct you know, order to do something.

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Speaker 1: Guys down the hill? Um, I think you know, like

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Speaker 1: I said, there's age and their innocence. Um, they were scared.

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Speaker 1: They were scared. I could just said one thing, and

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Speaker 1: in my mind, the video was taken before the command.

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Speaker 1: I have no validation of that, or nobody's ever given

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Speaker 1: me a timeline. But if, if, if the video or

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Speaker 1: the picture was taken prior to the command, what caused Libby?

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Speaker 1: What did what did she sense? What did she feel?

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Speaker 1: What did she see that made something you know click?

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Speaker 1: You know the reason each one of these details are

393
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Speaker 1: so important, every detail. I remember a guy that we

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Speaker 1: all knew to be a serial killer, and I had

395
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Speaker 1: a chance of getting him on one case. We never

396
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Speaker 1: knew the name of the victim. Joe Scott, you and

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Speaker 1: I have talked about unidentified bodies all across our country.

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Speaker 1: Never knew her name, still don't know her name, but

399
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Speaker 1: I could thought I could get him. On one case,

400
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Speaker 1: there was an ear ring found at the same when

401
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Speaker 1: her body was found, and the earring bothered me. And

402
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Speaker 1: from that one ear ring being at the location it

403
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Speaker 1: was in proximity to her body, we figured out how

404
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: the whole thing went down, that she was lord there,

405
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Speaker 1: and that the struggle and the murder took place there.

406
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: We figured out like fifteen different points about the attack

407
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Speaker 1: and the murder from that one earring and where it

408
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: laid in proximity to her body. So what I'm trying

409
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: to say is one fact, what detail, believe it or not,

410
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: can crack your case wide open. Like this, he says

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Speaker 1: he thinks the video was before the command. It matters.

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Speaker 1: We may not know why it matters, but it will.

413
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: It's a tiny piece of a puzzle that doesn't make

414
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: any sense right now. So every detail masters. I say

415
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: this on the show all the time again, judicial perspective.

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Speaker 1: Trust your gut, and I believe in kids guts, and

417
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Speaker 1: I think I agree with that. I think the video

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Speaker 1: was taken first because I think that she probably sensed evil.

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Speaker 1: She probably sensed something's wrong, something's amiss. She's a hero

420
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: for doing that. I don't care what aid you are.

421
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Speaker 1: Trust your gut because I see it on the bench

422
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: all the time. You're usually right. Lately, we've gotten the

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Speaker 1: idea that the police are going in a new direction, Lee,

424
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: do you know anything? A new direction? They absolutely are

425
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: with the release of the new mug shot, you guys

426
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: may notice it looks totally different from the first one.

427
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: He looks younger, much younger, and police said that this

428
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: man could be anywhere from a young as eighteen to

429
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: forty years old if he's a If he is that young,

430
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: that could explain why we don't have him in Aphists

431
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: correct the finger print data bank, because ash one of

432
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: your expertise is juvenile law, none of that would have

433
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: been made public even if it exists. No, that's right.

434
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: If they commit any crime prior to eighteen, throughout the nation,

435
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: they don't have a record once they become an adult,

436
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: except unless it's aggravated circumstances. But yeah, police think that

437
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: this man, whoever he is, has some kind of ties.

438
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: He knows Delphi, he knows the community, He knew how

439
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: that bridge worked. So it's somebody that could be hiding

440
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: in plane sight. How can you hide and plain site

441
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: in a town of three thousand people because it's somebody

442
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: that they don't suspect. Maybe a family man, could be

443
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: a police officer, could be a firefighter. It's somebody that

444
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: nobody is suspecting. What about that, guys, all our good possibilities.

445
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: I wish I had the answer. Why are they saying

446
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: it's a local? Why do you believe they are now

447
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: focusing on a local. I think it's based on the

448
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: information they have that they're not sharing with us, you know.

449
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I mean obviously that they don't They don't share much

450
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: more with us and what's out there in the public.

451
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, even as family, it's really

452
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: about protecting the integrity investigation. And I know people, you know,

453
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: we all know what that's about, because that is critical

454
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: to when comes time when we get this guy arrested,

455
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: that we're able to actually put him where he needs

456
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: to be, which is behind bars, you know, and we

457
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: don't want to be able to, you know, have any

458
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: miss apps there, you know, with two you know, releasing

459
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: more information like they did, which was a new sketch,

460
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: which was another part of the voice command, which was

461
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: taken a couple of steps across the bridge. You know

462
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: that's showing more cards in your hand, you know from

463
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: the from the law investigators, you know that from their perspective,

464
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: they're putting more cards out on the table. I don't

465
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: know how many cards they got up their sleeve yet,

466
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: but obviously they're not going to lay them all out there.

467
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, what's your question, dear? So

468
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: with the new I guess DNA, with like genealogy and

469
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: all of that, is that kind of coming into play?

470
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: And also when I hear the directive guys down the hill,

471
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: I think it's very informal, and I think that it's

472
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: if they were comfortable enough to follow that directive, they

473
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: may have been for million or with that person. So

474
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if that kind of false, if that's ever

475
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: come to mind for you guys. As far as the

476
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: DNA and analysis, the police departments and law enforcements, they

477
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: have not told us how and which method is what's

478
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: being done. Okay, they're again, like Mike said, it's not

479
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: like you see on DV. Okay, we're in fifty minutes.

480
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: It's a done deal. So you know, we're not brought

481
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: in every week and debrief done the three thousand tips

482
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: that have come in, and we're talking to this person

483
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: and this person. It's not like that. So our hope,

484
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: with the technology that's out there and with the message

485
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: that law enforcement has delivered to the families, we have

486
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: faith that they're using utilizing all the tools that are available.

487
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: Many Yeah, it's not that you just look up the

488
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: mom and the dad. It's not like that. I had

489
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: Paul Holes explained it one time we were on Doctor Oz.

490
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: I had to go corner him. I'm like, what did

491
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: you just say? And it's a whole thing. They go

492
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: all the way back to like over one hundred years,

493
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: because they've got to match up mom and dad all

494
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: the way back, and then it comes way down like ten, twelve,

495
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: fifteen descendants. It takes a long time to do what

496
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: to do the genealogy matchup. So for all we know,

497
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: they are doing it, we're trying to do it, trying

498
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: to Could we be remiss to assume that they didn't

499
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: fight when they were going down? I mean he gave

500
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: a directive. Was the round messed up there? And didn't

501
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: they try to say? I mean we don't have that information.

502
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: I think we're assuming they just went down and worked

503
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: in placing. They might not have been and something could

504
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: have happened right there at the beginning of the hill

505
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: and then made them say we better go down. I mean,

506
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: I just keep hearing like, oh, they went down, they

507
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: went down, And I don't know if we can assume that.

508
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a struggle there or not

509
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: that information. I don't know if it's been collected or known.

510
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's somebody that knows. There's three people

511
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: in the world that knows what happened. Two of them

512
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: are gone. We know that's at least one of the person.

513
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: Do you think that day they have known the purple?

514
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: I find that doubtful because you probably would have known

515
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: the purple they needed purple. Yeah, And or if, in

516
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: my opinion, if Libby knew the person, why would she

517
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: have recorded Like it'd be like should have recording it? It

518
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: It would have been no, Hey, Sam, what are you

519
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: doing out here today? Yes? So, is there anything that

520
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: you want us to know that you wish people would

521
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: ask you, which you just don't get a chance to say.

522
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: It's a great question. Um. The thing I think that

523
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: I would like most most everybody to help us with

524
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: just share this information. We've got two things going on here. Um.

525
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, but we're building a

526
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: memorial park for the girls, you know, because at some

527
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: point we're gonna get this case. We're gonna get this guy,

528
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be over. We're gonna close it, you know.

529
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna put this guy behind bars. It's

530
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: not gonna bring our girls back. So we're building a

531
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: memorial park on the other side over here, and we're

532
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: keeping those separate. I mean, it's a two prong approach.

533
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: But we're trying to keep him separate for a reason

534
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: because the memorial park will live on this case. You know,

535
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: this guy will go away. Um yeah, so, UM, I

536
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: don't want to give you false but I know it's

537
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: like Abby and Libby dot org and that that site

538
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: is devoted to the case Abby and Libby dot org. Hey. UM,

539
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: I was wondering, now, with all the forensic technology, with

540
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,959
Speaker 1: the new audio and any of the audio, can you

541
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: do any analysis like dialect or um? You know, can

542
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: they tell anything from the audio? Yeah? Regionalized linguistics. The

543
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: FBI has an entire section that's devoted to that where

544
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: they listen to tapes, you know. I mean, you guys

545
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: can tell where I'm from, the South, all right, So

546
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: and that's kind of broad, but you can you can

547
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: kind of keep it in a nutshell, So yes, kind

548
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: of they can. I think it's what he's trying to say,

549
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: Can you guys give me what you want out there,

550
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: what you want everyone to hear. I think one of

551
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: the things that that I struggle with trying to understand

552
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: is so the reward is over two hundred thousand dollars,

553
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of people that have

554
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: rated out people for a lot less than that, and

555
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 1: so I'm quite puzzled. And Um, within a few days

556
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: of the murder, uh that the uh, this reward fund

557
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: got started. And I can remember, you know, seeing the

558
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: news and hearing on the news how that thing's just

559
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: ramping up. Jim Mersey that that owns the Innapolis Colts

560
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: uh pledged a bunch of money. Uh. The punter UM

561
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: can't think of what his name. He's retired now, Um,

562
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, put up some money. UM, And I think

563
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: just escalated, and I'm sitting there and thinking, Okay, this,

564
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: We're gonna get this guy. It's just we're gonna get him,

565
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: you know, because we're not talking about five thousand bucks.

566
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: We're you know, at that time was like one hundred

567
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: and twenty one hundred and fifty. And I mean this

568
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: thing is just rolling and and I am just it

569
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: just puzzles me that that that that's the life changing

570
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: amount of money, where somebody could you know, rat out

571
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: this person and collect their money and start a new life. Okay.

572
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm just puzzled that with the circle that somebody like

573
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: this must run with, you know, criminals, I you know,

574
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: um that that's a different culture juries you ain't hanging

575
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: out with nuts and praises of virgins. You know. How

576
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: much as the reward now, well, according to this flyer,

577
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: it's two hundred twenty five thousand. That's a good to

578
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: get out there, two hundred quarter of a million dollars.

579
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: And it's like my way says, well, not everybody does

580
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: good because there's money involved, Okay, because because we know

581
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: there's there's one evil person that that's turned our life

582
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: upside down, but we also know that there's a lot

583
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: of good people and our families have reached blessings from

584
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: people literally around the world, you know, that have reached

585
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: out to us, and um, hardly a week goes by

586
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 1: where families we don't get a card, we don't get

587
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: a letter, we don't we don't get something, you know,

588
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: where somebody's just saying hey, like the lady said, hey,

589
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: we're praying for it, you know, and and um, we

590
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: feel that, and we sense that, and in honestly, that's

591
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: what helps us just keep going, you know, to the

592
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: next event and the next day. Nothing's ever going to

593
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: bring our girls back, and these girls deserve justice. Our family,

594
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: our community. Continue to share this information out there, continue

595
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: to make this guy's life smaller. This his whole world's

596
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: got to be smaller. It confuses me on how even

597
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: people close to our community, meaning they live within fifty

598
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: or sixty miles one hundred miles, haven't even heard of

599
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: the case, believe it or not. And we just need

600
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: that right person to say, you know what that looks

601
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: like my great aunt's cousins, boy girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever. Somebody's

602
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: gonna look at that and say, huh, I do recognize

603
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: that I used to work with him, used to live

604
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: down the road. He comes in the diner. You know,

605
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: I see this guy turn that in. Somebody out there

606
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: knows something. I can almost you know, I can't guarantee,

607
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: but in my heart, somebody out there knows this guy.

608
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: He's acting different, acting strange. He may be even acting

609
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: the same. Maye they know something. You know, something's just up.

610
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: Eight hundred three eight two seven five three seven repeat

611
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: eight hundred three A two seven five three seven and

612
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: eight four four four to five nine five seven eight

613
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: six eight four four four to five nine five seven

614
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: eighty six. And I know it's contrue to everything that

615
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: many people hold in here, But I'm going to say

616
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: a prayer right now, Father, please bless these families and

617
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: bring us justice. Amen. Greg's Crime Story is signing off