1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Why are faithful professors being purged from an American seminary? 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: And is there another financial scandal brewing at the Vatican? 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray and I we'll discuss. The Prayerful Posse 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: has arrived. Welcome to the Prayerful Posse. Before I get to, 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Father Jerry, don't forget subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: channel on iHeart, Apple, Spotify or on YouTube. You don't 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: want to miss an episode of the Posse. Now, let's 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: convene the Posse or part of it. Joining me now, 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray, Cannon lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York. Father, 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: thank you for being here. Bob. We're sending a search 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: squad out after. We're going to figure out where he is. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: He's traveling abroad. I'm told a big story breaking in Detroit. 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: Three faculty members of Saint Mary Seminary were sacked by 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: the new Archbishop, Edward Weisenberger. They included fanist Ed Peters, 15 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: theologians Eduardo Etchevaria and Ralph Martin, whom you know a 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: lot of viewers will know from e WT. They were 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: all dismissed by the archdiocese. They've yet to make a 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: statement detailing the reasons for their dismissals, though Ralph Martin 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: did say the following when I asked him. This is 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: the quote when I asked him for an explanation the bishop, 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: he said he didn't think it would be helpful to 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: give any specifics, but mentioned something about having concerns about 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: my theological perspectives. Father. As we know, Weisenberger, the archbishop 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: who is installed in March, has already made headlines by 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: imposing further restrictions on the celebration of the traditional at Mass. 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: There what do you make of these firings. These three 27 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: gentlemen are all declining to comment under advice of counsul Well. 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: I can talk about it from the point of view 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: of appreciating these three men. I know all three of them. 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: I think they're excellent professors. They were doing a great 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: service to the church, and I regret that they will 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: no longer be teaching at that seminary. I hope that 33 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: they get a job somewhere else. Now, as regards the form, 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: it is really a couple of things bothered me a lot. 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: I thought that we were in the age of transparency, 36 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: so if you fire someone, you know their work was 37 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: about to begin end of August, beginning of September the 38 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: seminary reopens. We're at the end of July. They were 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: fired essentially four or five weeks before they were supposed 40 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: to continue, no reason given. And when the archbishop says 41 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: that he thinks it's better not to do that, I 42 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: would say, why is it better? You know, you obviously 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: had a reason for doing it, and to tell us 44 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 2: as interested viewers and observers, but then to tell the 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: men directly. Secondly, I know that Professor Etcheveria declined to 46 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: comments saying that he had a non disclosure agreement. I 47 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: thought we got rid of those after the sex abuse 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: r So why are we doing that? And you just 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: have to say to yourself, what kind of message does 50 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: this send to the seminarians who are there and to 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: the other faculty members if you take something as radical 52 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: as firing three professors over the summer and don't issue 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: a statement explaining why, everybody's going to be scratching their heads. So, yeah, 54 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,559 Speaker 2: it was a bad decision and it was handled Corley. 55 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: Well, and father, these are not green professors that just 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: walked in the door last year. These men have been 57 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: teaching this seminary for twenty thirty years. In some cases, 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: I mean, and they're deep thinkers. They simply compared. I've 59 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: had ROLB. Martin on the show. He simply was comparing 60 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: what was proposed during the reign of Pope Francis to 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: the church's perennial teaching. There's nothing heretical or you know, 62 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: destructive to the papacy in saying, wait a minute, let's 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: look at how this compares to what the last two 64 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: popes taught before this Pope and the church fathers. 65 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, and actually this is the I mean, 66 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: what people suspect is behind it is a hostility to 67 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: the theological outlook of these three men. And I would say, 68 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: they're professors. We want them to think, and we want 69 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 2: them to express themselves publicly. And I know all three men, 70 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: they are not flamethrowers casting aspersions. They are doing exactly 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: what you said, comparing what the Benedictine John Paul the 72 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: second do and teach, what did the second Battican Council teach, 73 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: and what did Pot Francis teach? Well, the suspicion here 74 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: is that we got to you know, there's only one 75 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: voice allowed, which is affirm everything that Pope Francis said, 76 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: otherwise you can't work in my seminary. 77 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, some of the critics are saying that these 78 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: men violated the magisterium of the pope, meaning the last 79 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: one Pope Francis. Austin Ivory said something like that, your 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: take on that idea that relating the magisterium of the pope? 81 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: Is there a magistrum of the pope or is there 82 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: the magisterium? 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: Well, it's the magisterium of the church, and the Pope 84 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: is the servant and safeguard of that magisterium. His job 85 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: is to strengthen the brethren in the faith, as Our 86 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 2: Lord said about Saint Peter. So if we're talking about 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: papal magisterium, now, what's wrong with comparing what one pope's 88 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: taught and what another did. You can take a perfect 89 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 2: example capital punishment, is it. Pope Francis said that it's 90 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: impermissible to use it, and that it's an act of vengeance, 91 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: and that it's you know, it's an it's an offence 92 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: to human dignity. Well, no pope has ever said that 93 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: in the history of the of the world. The last 94 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: two didn't say it, even though there was pressure for 95 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: them to come out against it. Pope jop All the 96 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: second didn't want it to be administered, but Pope Benedict, 97 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: before he became pope, wrote a document to the American 98 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: hierarchy and saying, you cannot say that the death penalty 99 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: is inherently immoral. So yeah, I would just sketch scratch 100 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: my had to critics who exalt one papal teaching against 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: another and say, unless you're the last man to the post, 102 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: you don't count no well, pose count. 103 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: Well and father in the age of cinidality, where we're 104 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: supposed to be listening and conversing around small table groups 105 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: and airing our differences. So let me get this straight. 106 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: We can talk about women's ordination, we can talk about 107 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: breaking marriage bonds and going to communion, but we can't 108 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: talk about capital punishment. I mean, none of this makes 109 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: any sense to me. I mean, on the scale of 110 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: what you'll encounter in your life, I think capital punishment 111 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: is probably way over there, and it's certainly within bounds 112 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: of what perennially has been taught within the doctrine of 113 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: faith in the Catholic Church, and you know from time immemorial. 114 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: But I got to get to another story breaking story 115 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: from the Pillar this week. A leaked memo from twenty 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: sixteen seems to show that the late Cardinal George Pell, 117 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: who was head of the Economic Secretariat, he was kind 118 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: of the economic watchdog appointed by Pope Francis. He attempted 119 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: to order an investigation into the Vatican office that oversees 120 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: their real estate holdings and other investments. It's called ABSA, 121 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic Sea. Well, 122 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: Cardinal Pell seems to have uncovered a scheme where the 123 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: identity of the true owners or sources of funding of 124 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: some of these Vatican financial transfers could be protected and shielded. 125 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Pell discovered a number of irregular financial transactions that were 126 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: treated this way, which would indicate major financial malfeasans. Father 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: Pell asked the then Auditor General of the Vatican, Libero Milone, 128 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: to undertake an immediate investigation into the evidence he found. 129 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: Maloney was summarily sacked dismissed in twenty seventeen, and just 130 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: days ago his wrongful dismissal lawsuit was once again dismissed 131 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: by the Vatican City's Court. This looks very bad, Father. 132 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: It is bad, and this is one of the tasks 133 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: that Pope Leo is going to have to take up 134 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: because not only does this look bad, European regulators, of course, 135 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: are involved because the Vatican participates in the banking system, 136 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: which is regulated outside of Vatican City, and they had 137 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: a period you remember a few years ago where all 138 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: the credit cards and debit cards were canceled because they 139 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: had violated different rules and regulations that the money veil 140 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: as it's called, had imposed on it. They got the 141 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: thing back in order, but apparently this memo reveals that 142 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: there were even though they said they would do proper 143 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: things that they didn't that they did other things. Now 144 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: you have to get it under control. Also because the 145 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: credibility of the Holy See. If they assure a regulatory 146 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: agency of the European Union that everything is in order 147 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: and they're not involved in money laundering, and then significant 148 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: evidence arises that that wasn't true, you can't sit back 149 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: and say, well, you know, let's see what happens. You 150 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: bet it dow tackle this head on, and I think 151 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: Pope Leo's very well advised to say, look, we got 152 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: to get somebody in there with full authority to investigate everything. 153 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 2: No one can hide anything, and then we're going to 154 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: tell the results and we're going to do whatever we 155 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: have to do to re establish our fountability. 156 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: And father, you remember Cardinal Angelo Beshu, who was a 157 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: substituto at the Secretary of State. He authorized classified payments, 158 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: that's what he called them, classified payments from the Vatican 159 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: to a company in Australia between twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen. 160 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: Now Beishu maintained those classified payments had nothing to do 161 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: with Cardinal Pell's trial. He was being tried over false 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: oullot they would prove to be false accusations of sex abuse. 163 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,239 Speaker 1: That trial was underway at the time of those transfers. 164 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: What does that tell you about the finances of the Vatican? 165 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: And do is the public do a full accounting of 166 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: what happened there and how this structure is currently maintained. 167 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: Well, you know, at the risk of being you know, 168 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: just a historian. Remember Watergates started with a piece of 169 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 2: tape over a lock in the door at the hotel. 170 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: In other words, telltale evidence led all the way to 171 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon and the cover up. So the Vatican can't 172 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: just go with the assurances like pel is, excuse me, 173 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: Beto is a convict now he was convicted. He's not 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 2: in jail because he's appealed the sentence and he's not 175 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: being jailed until that appeal is hurt. But bet She's 176 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: already been convicted by a Vatican court. So how much 177 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 2: can we trust what he said? Everything that, all the 178 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 2: reasons why money was sent to Australia, why Cardinal pell 179 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: was on trial, that has to be revealed. This memo, 180 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: now that's been revealed. Did anybody mess around with codes 181 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: so that they could hide payments? You know? Reading about 182 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: this today, I found out this is the excellent reporting 183 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: at the Pillar that the Vatican had cleaned up their 184 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: act because they had a lot of accounts and nobody 185 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: really knew who the account holders were. And this is 186 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: the great temptation that people can say, well, you know 187 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: that the Vatican has its own bank and investment house, 188 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: maybe we could slip some money in there and then 189 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: take it out and nobody knows what it was. This 190 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: all has to be cleared up. This is making us 191 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: look like a laughing stock. Cardinals getting convicted, auditors being fired. 192 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: The orditors then can't get a just trial and hearing 193 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: the Vatican. They dismissed them on technical grounds, the grounds 194 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: why his ap peer would dismiss to say, well, you're 195 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: suing the Secretary of State, but they're not the responsible party. 196 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, doesn't matter what you say. The Pope 197 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: can simply say accept the case. I designate them the 198 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: responsible party. Looking back, historically they were the ones calling 199 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: the shots. I'd agree with that. Get this thing over with. 200 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: I mean, Lebro Maloney was a very trusted management consultant 201 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: and financial guy. He took the job because Pope Francis 202 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: asked him to do it, and then he got treated 203 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 2: essentially like an unwelcome guest who was thrown out the door, 204 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: and the guy who threw him out then gets convicted. 205 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and he was mostly Cardinal Basher was ticked 206 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: off because he claimed Maloney was spying on him. Yeah, 207 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: that's what investigators do. They look into your fact pattern. 208 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: Now this look, you see why Pope Francis called off 209 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: the Price Waterhouse audit. Imagine what would have happened had 210 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: they come into the Vatican. Maybe we'd have some more transparency, though, Father, 211 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: Look this week on a happier note, or maybe not 212 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: hundreds of digital missionaries gathered for the first ever Jubilee 213 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: for Digital missionaries and influencers. Cardinal Petro Powerline, the Vatican 214 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: Secretary of State, addressed the audience with then appeal to 215 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: be quote connected to hope, saying you are not only 216 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: content creators, you were witnesses. You are not just building 217 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: platform ms, You're building bridges. Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga was 218 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: on hand to given over the top blessing, as was 219 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: but Francis Acolyte Father Antonio Spadaro, the ghostwriter Father. The 220 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: attendance was not great, I'm told, and the New York 221 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: Post covered this event this way. This was their headline, 222 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: Vatican to host hot priest influencers to spread word of 223 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: God to younger faithful. As number slumped, I got to 224 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: say your first thoughts, and I was very uncomfortable when 225 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: I saw this emphasis on these priests who seemed to 226 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: be into a lot of self care gyms and waxing. 227 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: And what did this achieve, if anything. 228 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: Well, you know, influencers usually arendas for the money and 229 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: the publicity, and you know that's an aspect that needs 230 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: to be looked at. Secondly, influencers are self declared as such, 231 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: and then they get their audience. These are kind of 232 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: people that were counting on to, you know, promote the faith, 233 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: doctrinal knowledge, you know, the experience of biblical literature understood properly. 234 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: I mean, it would be much better if they called 235 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 2: in people who are actually engaged in promoting the Apostle 236 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: the church through the media in ways that are visible 237 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: and measurable and good because we have a tremendous in 238 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: the English speaking world certainly, and I monitor the Spanish 239 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: and Italian world. We have wonderful resources, websites and all 240 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: the rest. Talk about this podcast, talk about EWTN. There's 241 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: a lot going on. That's good. So a guy who 242 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: posts videos of him, you know, walking his cat or 243 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: buying cappuccinos, Come on, that's funny, you know. But are 244 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: we into trivia and me tooism? You know, since everybody 245 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: likes influences, we got to have them too in the catheters. Please, 246 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: I think we got to get more serious. 247 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, the dead lift is not a big draw for 248 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: people looking for spiritual answers. You know, I have to 249 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: play this. I wasn't going to, but I am. This 250 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: is Cardinal Madradiaga uh, this is kind of his little 251 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: sing along. This was posted by Austin Ivory. Watch and 252 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: they're really dragging out the Francis brigade here Madadiaga and 253 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: Spadaro Francis biographer Austin Ivory, he was invited. Is this 254 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: a winning strategy? 255 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: Definitely not. I mean this is the make believe world 256 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: that if we have people smiling and cheering, then the 257 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: faith is being promoted. You know where the faith's being promoted, 258 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: People going to mass, kneeling down, people going to confession, 259 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: seeing the rosary. You want influencers. Go to the pilgrimage 260 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: that took place at Chartre. They just had a beautiful 261 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: one in covid Donga. In Spain, they have pilgrimages like 262 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: this even in the United States. Go to Cardinal Burkhshrun. 263 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: You want to see people of real influences to people 264 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: kneeling in front of the tabernacle praying for the church. 265 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: And how about moms with big families who take their 266 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: kids on pilgrimages and teach their little three year olds 267 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: to make the Sign of the Cross. You know, I'm 268 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: encouraged when I see ordinary people doing ordinary Catholic practices 269 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: instead of this nonsense of people. You know, let's have 270 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 2: a mob. Let's have everyone hold up their phone, turn 271 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: on the lights, you know, wave your hands and say 272 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: we love Jesus and all great, we all should love Jesus. 273 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: But is mass rallies and kind of like self congratulatory 274 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: back and forth. That's not how you promote the faith. 275 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: No, no, you don't have to be in the in 276 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: the selfie video as you say you love Jesus. I 277 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: don't know what that really accomplishes. 278 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: But does a mash pit really the appropriate places, you know, 279 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: say religion is good. 280 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: Come on the mash pit and waxing your eyebrows. This 281 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: is not the answer. This is not the path to salvation. 282 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: There was one thing I have to say. The Holy 283 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: Father met with a youth jubilee the other night, and 284 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: he drove all down the via Conciliazzi on. He had 285 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: a beautiful message to them in multiple languages. 286 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: Jesus tells us you are the assaults of the earth. 287 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: You are the lights of the world. 288 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: You know. 289 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: Look, I'm all for young people getting excited. That's wonderful. 290 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm glad they're there, and it's great that the Holy 291 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: Father goes out and meets them, and that, you know, 292 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: there wasn't the triviality of that other jubilee in that 293 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, youth meeting the other day, which I kind 294 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 1: of liked it was. It was beautiful seeing it, and 295 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: we have a few images of that there, Father, Jerry, 296 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: I want to move to close matters closer to home. 297 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: The Trump administration announced this week that federal employees may 298 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: discuss and promote their religious beliefs in the workplace, citing 299 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: religious freedoms protected by the US Constitution. Now, the new 300 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: statement cites President Trump's executive order calling for agencies to 301 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: eliminate the quote anti Christian weaponization of government. He says 302 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: federal employees may seek to persuade others of the correctness 303 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: of their own religious views. That according to the Director 304 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: of the Office of Personnel Management, Scott Cooper. Now he 305 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: went on to say, supervisors can recruit employees to their religion. 306 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: In other words, they can proselytize in the government workplace, 307 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: as long as those efforts are not quote harassing in nature. Father, 308 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: your reaction to this, critics are already saying this violates 309 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: the alleged separation of church and state. 310 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: Now, well, that's nonsense. In other words, the only speech 311 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: that you in the lunch room. The only thing you 312 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: can't talk about is God in the church, or if 313 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: you're Jewish, about the synagogue or the temple, or if 314 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: you're Moslim about the emom. Come on, if you want 315 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: to talk about what you believe in. I mean, every 316 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: time the President of the United States, going back years, 317 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: it ends all this speeches God bless America. Can we 318 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: discuss that, you know, at the Office of Managing and Budget, 319 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: you know, lunch froom. Course we can now, Yeah, what 320 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: the harassment, of course comes where you have people saying 321 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 2: you cannot wear across you can't have visible religious symbols, 322 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 2: you can't have your Bible on your desk, you can 323 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: engage in prayer together. This is nonsense. We have a 324 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: Congressional prayer breakfast every year in Washington. You know that. 325 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: I'm sure you get into them. What's going on? The 326 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: President of the United States is leading the senators and 327 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 2: everybody else in prayer. Why can't that happen at the 328 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: lower levels of the federal gament. I'm glad President Trump 329 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: did this. 330 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you see where the bishops continue to wade 331 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: into immigration policy and politics? Last week, a group of 332 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: Los Angeles business leaders joined Archbishop hose At Gomez in 333 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: LA to announce a new fund they've started now. This 334 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: fund will help families affected by recent immigration rates. According 335 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: to Archbishop Gomez, the program will provide direct support, direct 336 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: support to families who are suffering financial hardships because of 337 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: the current climate of uncertainty and fear. End quote father, 338 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: your reaction. 339 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: They can do that. I mean, I'm charitable. Action is fine, 340 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: But you know what about the crime victims of people 341 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: killed by illegal aliens? Is there fun for them? You 342 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: know what about workers displaced because illegal aliens are being 343 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 2: hired in factories? Is there a fun for them? You know? 344 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: Taking a one sided approach which says any government action 345 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: to remove people who are legally in the country is inheriently, unfair, discriminatory, 346 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: and detrimental. It isn't. And I've said on this program before, 347 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 2: everyone who comes in here illegally knows they run the 348 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: risk of this happening, and if they're serious people, they'll 349 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 2: prepare for when that eventuality happens. Don't go to the 350 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: government and say, I know I broke the law on 351 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: coming in here illegally, but you have no right to 352 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 2: remove me. Of course you have a right to remove 353 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 2: What country is it that announces everybody who wants to 354 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 2: come in please do And we're never going to remove 355 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 2: you because guess what, that's the meaning of charity. That's 356 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: not the meaning of charity. Yeah. 357 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: Well, look, I think it's the Church's prerogative, indeed her 358 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: obligation to help people in need, and it should reach 359 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: all Catholics in the pews, including setting up a parallel 360 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: fund for those angel families as you mentioned, who lost 361 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: loved ones who were killed or terrorized by legal aliens. 362 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: I mean that is a reality. Those are American citizens 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: who are here all the time, not just people who 364 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: just arrived. God bless them. But yeah, this is an 365 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: odd Yeah, it's an odd choice on their part. On 366 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: another tragic note, Vatican Secretary of State Paroleine and Pope 367 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: Leo himself both condemned the Islamic attack on a Catholic 368 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: church in Congo. At least thirty one members of the 369 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: Eucharistic Crusade of Prayer movement and an apostolate for children 370 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: and young people focused on devotion to the Eucharistate were 371 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: all slaughtered. The massacre shows the growing threat from the 372 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: Allied Democratic Forces the ADF in the region. The Islamic 373 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: group's goal is to establish a global caliphate. Father again, 374 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: another horrible attack against Christians in Africa, and it's jihati 375 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: in nature. 376 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's you know, I didn't really know there 377 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 2: were Islamic fanatics in Congo, you know, I thought that 378 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: was mostly Christians and Pagans. But obviously they're there. I 379 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 2: actually I know they've been just doing destruction in neighboring Mozambique. 380 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: So it's a real problem. This is part of the 381 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: chaos unfortunately in the political scene in the Congo where 382 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: the government has had rebels in Rwanda and they've been 383 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: fighting for decades. But you know where is the responsible 384 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: parties in the Islamic leadership in the Gulf Nations and 385 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 2: all elsewhere, not only talking about that this is wrong, 386 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 2: but helping to arm the government of Congo to fight 387 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: these people. I mean, this is something that should happen. 388 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: This is crime. This is not expression of a political 389 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: or religious point of view. It's using religion as an 390 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: instrument of criminal murder and it has to be stopped. 391 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: And yes, I hope our president who takes a great 392 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 2: interest in trying to have peace in the world and 393 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: end conflicts. I hope you'll send a message to the 394 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: leaders of the Congo that they have to protect their people. 395 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly this Christian minority who are increasingly under attack there. 396 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: And it's not only there's Southern Sudan, it's in other places. 397 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: But he has gone the Liberia, He's gone great lengths 398 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: to help bring peace to Cambodia and other nations in Africa. 399 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: I hope he extends the glance of the administration to 400 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: these poor, suffering people. Father. We will leave it there 401 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: And if you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, 402 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or go 403 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: to our podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of 404 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: Father Gerald, Murray and Robert Royal, who is abroad spreading 405 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: the posse. Cheer until the Posse rides again, Stay the course, 406 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: follow the light. I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time. 407 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is producer in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and 408 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get 409 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: your podcasts.