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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I don't know. I mean, I guess it

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Speaker 2: depends on what you consider to be murder. Like, I

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Speaker 2: don't really think it was murder, because you know, I was.

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Speaker 2: I was pretty wasted, so like, I feel like that

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Speaker 2: is a mitigating factor. But oh my god, we're recording. Hey, sorry,

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Speaker 2: this was a podcast. Well, this was not a podcast.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize we were recording. I was just talking

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Speaker 2: to Matt Leeb about our weekend on Sesame Street.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Mine was also good on Sesame Street. And yes

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Speaker 3: on Sesame Street. Yes. Anyway, legal analysts are split on

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Speaker 3: whether or not the Sesame Street weekend we had was

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Speaker 3: legal or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's I think what's most important

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Speaker 2: to note is that big Bird is up in a farm,

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Speaker 2: uh in the country now, and he's doing great.

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Speaker 3: He's fine, he's fine, he's good.

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Speaker 2: Look into like the will that that is totally legitimate,

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Speaker 2: that will be found in this house. Anyway, Matt, we're

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Speaker 2: still in our Burton Ernie bed reading her bedtime story,

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Speaker 2: a two hour bedtime story.

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Speaker 4: Yet what wait, I have an important questions and I

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Speaker 4: feel like Matt would give a fantastic answer this question,

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Speaker 4: which fictional TV character would you let defend you in court?

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Speaker 3: Oh god? I mean the obvious one is fog Horn

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Speaker 3: Leghorn because he already sounds like a rooster lawyer. But

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Speaker 3: if I had to go, uh, does it have to

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Speaker 3: be a cartoon? No?

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Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I think I think it. I think

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Speaker 4: it's just fictional, so just so it could be. And

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Speaker 4: you know from from either shows that you I mean,

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Speaker 4: you could pod yourself the gun or pod yourself the wire?

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Speaker 3: Where are you? I think I already chose Foghorn Leghorn.

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Speaker 3: But if I had to choose someone from you know,

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Speaker 3: a live action television show, I don't know. I feel

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Speaker 3: like a fucking I think the Good Doctor would be

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Speaker 3: pretty good at it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, see me. I'm picking my cousin Vinnie, sure,

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Speaker 2: largely because I would like to meet Marisitome.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but.

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Speaker 2: He will get me off out of this murder rap

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Speaker 2: that I shouldn't catch for whatever happened to Big Bird, which.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't matter what happened. The point is is, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be fine. We're going to be fine.

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Speaker 3: Big Bird is still alive.

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Speaker 2: I do kind of want to see I mean, this

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Speaker 2: is adjacent to Sesame Street. But I do feel like

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Speaker 2: right after my cousin Vinnie, they could have done a sequel,

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Speaker 2: but where the rest of the cast are muppets, and uh,

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Speaker 2: that would have been a great movie.

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Speaker 3: They could have done a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the original could have had muppets in

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Speaker 2: it and it will worked out pretty.

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Speaker 3: Were not really many movies out there that couldn't also

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Speaker 3: work being a combination live action muppet movie. You know,

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Speaker 3: I just Godfather.

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Speaker 2: The Pianist, sure, Oh yeah, definitely the Pianist Captain Corelli's

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Speaker 2: mandolin for sure.

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Speaker 3: Man, it just works.

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Speaker 2: So that's the cold open, everybody. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: more about Avery Brundage when we get back. And we're back. So,

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Speaker 2: if Pierre de Kubertine was the Jesus Christ of the Olympics,

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Speaker 2: and he kind of was, Enri de Ballets, Latour was

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Speaker 2: the Apostle Paul we mentioned him in the last episode.

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Speaker 2: This is kind of the guy Kubertine when he gets

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Speaker 2: too old. Henri is the dude who kind of follows

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Speaker 2: him as the King of the Olympics. You might say

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Speaker 2: that's not what they call it, but that's what I'm

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Speaker 2: going to call it because Enri de Ballet Latour was

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Speaker 2: a Belgian aristocrat. His father was a count and former

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Speaker 2: governor of Antwerp, which, of all the parts of Belgium,

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Speaker 2: is certainly one of them. He had been elected to

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Speaker 2: Kubertine's successor as President of the Olympics in nineteen twenty five,

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Speaker 2: and as the nineteen thirty dawned, his primary claim to

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Speaker 2: fame was that in nineteen twenty eight he had tried

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Speaker 2: to ban women from the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: Hell. Yeah, so that's that's Ballet la tour.

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Speaker 2: Things are too easy for broads in nineteen twenty eight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, there's gonna be men only nineteen twenty eight onward,

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Speaker 3: all dudes.

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Speaker 2: I just want to see men in tight span dex dancing, dancing.

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Speaker 4: I would like to see a man do what Simone

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Speaker 4: Biles does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sure, literally can't because she is one of one. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but if I try hard and I could probably

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Speaker 3: do those flips.

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Speaker 2: This is what I saw the first time I met you,

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Speaker 2: is you have a real Simone Biles energy, absolutely a microphone.

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Speaker 3: I'm limber and I'm fun, that's right, That's right, and

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Speaker 3: much too tall.

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Speaker 2: You know who's not limber? Or fun was Enri Ballet

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Speaker 2: la tour?

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Speaker 4: Cool?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now I learned he was a piece of shit

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Speaker 2: from the book burlin in Games by Guy Walters. But

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Speaker 2: whenever I learned some very prominent and respected guy was

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Speaker 2: actually a scumbag, I like to take a glance at

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Speaker 2: their wiki just to see if they're like any funny

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Speaker 2: examples of editors. They are trying to diplomatically describe how

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Speaker 2: much a dude sucks, presumably while battling the horde of

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Speaker 2: bots that today's International Committee commands to whitewash their history.

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Speaker 2: And sure enough, when I went to Allanrie's wiki, I

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Speaker 2: found this. As IOC president, he focused on preserving the

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Speaker 2: traditional ideals and integrity of the Olympics and supporting amateur

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Speaker 2: sport globally during a time of increasing political and commercial pressures,

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Speaker 2: despite his antipathy towards Jews and his desire to exclude

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Speaker 2: women from participating in the yellowcups. Oh boy, it feels

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Speaker 2: like a buried lead there?

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Speaker 3: Is that not the name of the sub section typathy? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: well this does give me an opportunity to use my

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Speaker 3: net and Yahoo soundboard that I just invented. All right,

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Speaker 3: there we go and here's another one. Crazy Jews, Crazy Jews.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be popular. So since Ballet la Tour

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Speaker 2: was a raging anti semi that's what I mean. I

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Speaker 2: think we could all do that in our heads. You

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Speaker 2: hear someone described as having antipathy towards Jews, that's the

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Speaker 2: most racist man you've ever heard of, although not in

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Speaker 2: this case, because Hitler is also a part of our story.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he's around at the same time, you know, And.

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Speaker 2: Because Ballet la Tour he is going to push back

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Speaker 2: on some of Hitler's discrimination against Jewish athletes. He gets

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Speaker 2: more credit that he deserves because he is At no

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Speaker 2: point is he doing it because it's really wrong. He's

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Speaker 2: doing it because, like, well, I know I should do

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Speaker 2: this because the Olympics is supposed to be for everyone,

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Speaker 2: and I kind of hate these people, but all, like

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Speaker 2: I have to demand they at least pretend not to

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Speaker 2: be racist than not against these people that I also hate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to put on a good face, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's like you need to wear a mask if you're

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Speaker 3: going to hate Jews. Come on Hitler, right right.

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Speaker 2: And the problem for Ballet la Tour, who's again he's

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Speaker 2: president of the IOC, which is the International Committee Avery

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Speaker 2: Brundage is for most of his period he's president and

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Speaker 2: then like a leading official in the AOC, which is

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Speaker 2: the American Olympic Committee. Right, So Brundage is like a

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Speaker 2: local Olympic leader and balleyla Tour is running the whole shebang, right,

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Speaker 2: And so Ballet la Tour Brundage desperately wants to be

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Speaker 2: on the IOC, and he is eventually going to get

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Speaker 2: on it and later will be president of the IOC,

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Speaker 2: and he's looking he has to kind of he has

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Speaker 2: to make balleyla Tour happy in order to be able

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Speaker 2: to make that jump, right. So this is like from

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Speaker 2: a career point of view, what's going on here? And

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Speaker 2: the problem for both balayla Tour and Brundage is that

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Speaker 2: as soon as the Nazis get into power, they start

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Speaker 2: banning Jewish athletes from joining sporting organizations, from using the

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Speaker 2: same sporting facilities as Aryan athletes. And this they don't

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Speaker 2: like directly say Jews can't be in the Olympics, but

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Speaker 2: because they have, they have made it impossible for Jewish

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Speaker 2: people to be a part of any of the things

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Speaker 2: that funnel people into the Olympics, right, So it's a

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Speaker 2: facto band, right, Yeah, I think there is an eventually,

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Speaker 2: like a straight up band, but it starts as just

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Speaker 2: sort of like, well, we have now made it impossible

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Speaker 2: for this to happen, right Yeah. Avery Brundage again also

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Speaker 2: sees this as a problem, but he's also very racist,

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Speaker 2: So they're both in this position of like, well, we

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Speaker 2: have this kind of messianic belief in the Olympics and

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Speaker 2: everyone should be capable of being in the Olympics. So

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Speaker 2: we don't like that you've made this impossible, but we

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Speaker 2: also basically agree with why you hate the Juice, right,

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Speaker 2: Like we do think they run an international conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: We're very racist. You listen, I get where you're coming

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Speaker 3: from with the whole Jews thing. What I'm just saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's trying to ban them. Yeah, I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to square that with letting everyone compete in sport. And uh,

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Speaker 3: it's a tricky one.

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Speaker 2: It's such a it's such an interesting because there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of these kinds you even when you read through

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Speaker 2: like wartime memoirs of like Americans, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: like like patent pretty racist against Jewish people, and then

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Speaker 2: like the Holocaust becomes clear and there are a number

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Speaker 2: of folks who are like, oh, I guess I'm not

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Speaker 2: that kind of racist. I learned something about me through

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Speaker 2: this whole experience, And isn't that what war is all about?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, learning that you're not as bad as.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Nazis being Nazis, spark anger across the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world with a chaotic series of aggressive

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Speaker 2: Olympic related spasms pretty much as soon as they're in charge. Now,

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Speaker 2: this goes in a number of different directions. First off,

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Speaker 2: they're just kind of like, we don't even want to

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Speaker 2: host the games if you guys are going to be

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Speaker 2: dicks about this hole us oppressing Jewish people think.

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Speaker 3: And then they're like, yeah, you guys are going to

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Speaker 3: be rude about our belief system about how Jews are vermin.

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Speaker 3: Then I don't even think we want to do this shit. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The other thing they do, so the guy who's the

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Speaker 2: president of the German Olympic Committee, so he's like the

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Speaker 2: German Avery Brundage, is a guy named Theodore Leveled and

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Speaker 2: he's like half Jewish, right, and so they try to

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Speaker 2: fire him, and the IOC is like, well, you can't, right,

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Speaker 2: Like then we definitely will. And so like he's going

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Speaker 2: to be leveled. Is like in such an awkward position

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Speaker 2: where he is part Jewish, he has actively been discriminating,

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Speaker 2: discriminated on in this in this entire pre and during

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Speaker 2: the Olympics period. He is also the head of the

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Speaker 2: German Olympic Committee still and it's one of those like

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Speaker 2: I definitely know there are definitely people at the time,

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Speaker 2: like Jewish refugees and stuff, who attacked him for being

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Speaker 2: a trader. I also like, well, I don't know, man,

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Speaker 2: what happens to your family if you are that publicly

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Speaker 2: like that. I'm not gonna. I don't have it in

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Speaker 2: me to judge people in that situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a bit tricky if yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: yeah German jew at this time. Yeah, like maybe we

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Speaker 3: can like reason with him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it's it's yeah, I just don't have it

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Speaker 2: in me to come down on the guy. But it's

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Speaker 2: important to understand that context and understand that there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who consider him a trader.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: The Nazis banned Jewish athletes from from using public training

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Speaker 2: facilities and from holding membership in any of the sporting

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Speaker 2: organizations that funnel competitors up to the Olympics. This sparks

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Speaker 2: outrage in the United States and the US we're really

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Speaker 2: interested that it's interesting in this period because we are

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Speaker 2: as racist as we have ever been in the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 2: But anytime somebody comes straight out and makes their politics

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Speaker 2: at a national level, you can get away with at

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Speaker 2: a local level in the South, especially, but if you

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Speaker 2: come out at a national level and you might make

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Speaker 2: your politics be about racial exclusion, Americans don't generally like that, right,

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Speaker 2: But I think in large part not because we're any

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Speaker 2: less racist than anyone else, but because it conflicts with

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Speaker 2: the idea Americans have of themselves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that offends them right of one day not

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Speaker 3: being racist or the idea that like, no, we're not

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Speaker 3: actually racist. Yes, on a national level, we're really really

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Speaker 3: polite about segregation.

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Speaker 2: As we're going to get into, one of the awkward

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Speaker 2: things about this is that a lot of some of

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Speaker 2: the people who reject the boycott campaign in the US

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Speaker 2: are black American athletes, and they have a really good point, right,

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Speaker 2: because they're like, well, but we have like a lot

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Speaker 2: of the same laws, Like I can't play in most

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Speaker 2: of the same facilities that like the people running the

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Speaker 2: Olympics play in. So why am I pissed about Germany

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Speaker 2: in particular?

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Speaker 3: Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And it's like, well, yeah, I mean from the position

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Speaker 2: of like, yeah, you're a black boxer, like nineteen thirty

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Speaker 2: five or whatever, I understand that argument. I certainly can't.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like you get with them black strike

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Speaker 2: breakers during like the Cold Wars, where it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't let you be part of the union. What

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Speaker 2: are you supposed to do? Right, Like you had a

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Speaker 2: family to feed? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh, I guess in

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Speaker 2: this case, you're legally not allowed to feed your family

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Speaker 2: by being good at sports. So there is that difference.

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Speaker 2: So there's a boycott campaign that starts to consolidate around

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Speaker 2: the nineteen thirty six games. As Carolyn Marvin lays out

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Speaker 2: in an article for the Journal of American Studies, telegrams,

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Speaker 2: phone calls, and letters demanding an official American reaction besieged

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Speaker 2: Brundage as the president of the AOC, and he released

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Speaker 2: a statement giving his personal but unofficial opinion that the

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Speaker 2: IOC would not permit the games to be held wherever

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Speaker 2: there might be interference with the fundamental Olympic theory of

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Speaker 2: a quality of all races. To Brundage's irritation, this was

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Speaker 2: reported as an official challenge to German Olympic Committee policy.

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Speaker 2: He had only meant to reassure the American public, upon

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Speaker 2: whose goodwill Olympic activities depended, he explained in a letter

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Speaker 2: to the nervous doctor Leveled. Facing problems of his own

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Speaker 2: and fearing the defection of the large and prestigious American team,

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Speaker 2: so he talks when he really shouldn't have, and it

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Speaker 2: causes problems for Leveled over in Germany and Levels again

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Speaker 2: in a very tough position. Now, back in nineteen thirty,

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Speaker 2: before the Nazis were in charge, the American Olympic Committee

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Speaker 2: had sent a guy named Gustavus Kirby to observe construction

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Speaker 2: efforts for the stadium to make sure that the plans

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Speaker 2: for the thirty six Olympics were going according to like plan,

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Speaker 2: and he was the first guy that Ballet Latour had

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Speaker 2: Brundage trot out to fight back against fears that the

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Speaker 2: Nazis might have plans to do some like racial violence

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Speaker 2: and thus weren't fitting Olympic hosts. They were also worried

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Speaker 2: like are they going to start another war?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Is there going to be a big European war? And

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Speaker 2: so his job, by way of defending the Olympics, Kirby

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Speaker 2: has to like argue that Germany is never going to

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Speaker 2: do another war. Oh, and here's what Kirby writes, The

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Speaker 2: German psychology is not that of deception. The World War

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Speaker 2: was not only in their hearts but also on their

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Speaker 2: lips before it was precipitated, and that if the rest

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Speaker 2: of the world were blind, it certainly was not because

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Speaker 2: Germany had for years been boasting. And therefore if the

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Speaker 2: present activity were being directed toward a warlike end, we

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Speaker 2: would certainly hear of it, know of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we know if Germany had some sort

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Speaker 3: of ambitions towards a war.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. God, beautiful stuff. So somehow this failed to reassure anybody.

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Speaker 2: Balley la Tour, president of the Olympics, got involved and

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Speaker 2: he wrote Avery Brundage a letter saying I am not

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Speaker 2: personally fond of Jews and of the Jewish influence, but

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Speaker 2: I will not have them molested in no way whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: Godol, I love the middle ground of this. So they're

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Speaker 3: just like, listen, I'm no fan of the international Jew right.

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Speaker 3: I think we can all agree with that.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the Nazis are right about everything except their laws.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, except the whole power they're molesting them, all right,

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Speaker 3: let's not molest It's so funny.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like this is one of the

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Speaker 2: worst things that ever happened in history, and it keeps

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Speaker 2: being repeated in various forms down through the ages. But

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Speaker 2: it's very funny whenever you read how people like talked

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Speaker 2: about this, like the attempts to like we would know

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Speaker 2: if the Germans wanted war. It's like that Simpson's line,

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Speaker 2: no one who's German could be a bad man. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: So Ballet Latour urges Brundage to find a way to

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Speaker 2: apply pressure to the Germans, while also acknowledging that the

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Speaker 2: Jews quote shout before there is reason to do so

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Speaker 2: they always just the good part.

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Speaker 3: And there's just like and I acknowledge again, you cries

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Speaker 3: out in pain before he strikes you. I acknowledge this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've got to put pressure on the Nazis.

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Speaker 2: But also I'm really bad, like maybe clear about this.

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Speaker 2: I suck so hard, No, I'm just as evil as

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Speaker 2: you gonna.

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Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. You know, White don't want to

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Speaker 3: do anything about it.

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Speaker 2: I just want to get angry on Reddit about it.

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Speaker 3: You know that's me. I got like fourteen eighty eight

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Speaker 3: mine fucking Twitter handle and everything.

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Speaker 2: So, both Brundage and Balela Tour did strongly disagree with

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Speaker 2: the fact that the Nazis had Banjews from qualifying to

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Speaker 2: compete in the Olympics. And again, this isn't because of

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Speaker 2: any particular respect for human rights, but more because of

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Speaker 2: their religious faith in the Olympics as a concept. Right,

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Speaker 2: the only people you can exclude are professional athletes because

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Speaker 2: they're fundamentally bad people.

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Speaker 3: For making them exactly yeah, yeah, they're destroying sport by

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Speaker 3: feeding their families with it.

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Speaker 2: It is a fascinating set of moral lines these people truy.

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Speaker 2: So the American Olympic Committee voted to boycott the games

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Speaker 2: of Germany didn't reverse course, and Brundage supported the resolution initially,

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Speaker 2: and it passes easily because again, Americans don't like being

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Speaker 2: seen as racist.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Had the story ended there, Brundage probably wouldn't ever have

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Speaker 2: made behind the bastards. You would have been yet another

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Speaker 2: guy in the twenties had some shitty opinions but ultimately

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Speaker 2: did the right thing right supporting the boycott, I would argue,

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00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 2: was the right thing to do. Sure, but the IOC

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Speaker 2: was very unhappy with this situation because every person in

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Speaker 2: the IOC is a wealthy aristocrat or at least rich

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Speaker 2: in the case of the Americans, and they all thought

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Speaker 2: the Nazis were actually pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: I think they're on something.

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Speaker 2: There's one guy who doesn't suck in the fancy boys

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Speaker 2: Olympic club, and it's a commodore, ernest Yankee like JH.

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Speaker 2: Ncke who is the former Assistant Secretary of the Navy.

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Speaker 2: So there's another guy. I have General General Cheryl who's

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Speaker 2: on the Olympic Committee who does suck and is basically

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Speaker 2: a Nazi. But Comrado or Janki is like, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying he's like woke by whatever standards people use today,

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Speaker 2: but he's like, the Nazis are bad and we shouldn't.

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Speaker 3: We shouldn't humor.

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Speaker 2: Hitler with an Olympics, right like he wants this, and

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't give Hitler the things that he wants, right

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Speaker 2: love it. So yeah, his colleagues want him out as

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Speaker 2: a result of this. Now they will eventually force him out.

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Speaker 2: They can't do it right away. There's like you gotta

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Speaker 2: have you gotta basically have a whole vote. He's got

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Speaker 2: to do like some Emperor Palpatine, Star Wars, prequels, politics

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Speaker 2: shit to make this happen right right right, Balleyla Tour

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Speaker 2: is going to be a big part of that. So

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Speaker 2: while they're waiting to be able to force him out,

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Speaker 2: Balleila Tour promises Brundage, Hey, this guy, he's either going

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Speaker 2: to resign or one of these days, one way or another,

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Speaker 2: he will be out in the near future. And if

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Speaker 2: you fix this boycott situation, his seat will go to you, right.

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Speaker 2: And that's the thing, Avery, Brundage is always.

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Speaker 3: All he wants advancement, that.

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Speaker 2: Brave yes, and we all crave advancement. And really the

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Speaker 2: only way to advance is to buy the products sponsored

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Speaker 2: on their show. A lot of people don't know this, actually,

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Speaker 2: but one of the products sold on this show is

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Speaker 2: a seat on the IOC.

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Speaker 3: You know it.

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Speaker 2: And if we get enough listeners on the IOC, we

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Speaker 2: can make my old hometown of Idabell, Oklahoma be the

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Speaker 2: site of the new Olympics, and I just think that

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Speaker 2: would be kind of funny.

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Speaker 3: That would be sick of.

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00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 2: North Korea marching through the streets of Idaba.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it, guys.

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Speaker 4: I do kind of feel like they're going to run

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Speaker 4: actual Olympic ads on our shows during the Games. I

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Speaker 4: do kind of feel like NBC probably whoever the fuck

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Speaker 4: owns the streaming rights.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I'll.

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Speaker 2: Take their money. I'll take their money, and I will

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Speaker 2: make them do the discus on the cow farm where

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Speaker 2: I grew up. Anyway, here's here's some ads. All right,

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Speaker 2: So we're back. So I want to read a quote

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Speaker 2: from Guy Walters kind of the conundrum that Avery Brundage

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Speaker 2: is faced with. Well, Brundage knew that if he wanted

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00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 2: to succeed him Jonki, he would have to do exactly

401
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 2: as the President and the Vice President wished. With the

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00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: two men looking benevolently on Germany, Brundage decided that he

403
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 2: would change his opinion to coincide with theirs. It was

404
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 2: nothing more than toadying. From this moment on, Brundage would

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Speaker 2: do everything in his power to ensure that his masters

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Speaker 2: were satisfied and The best way he could do that

407
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: was to ensure American participation at Berlin. Had Brundage not

408
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Speaker 2: been so personally ambitious, then a boycott would have been,

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Speaker 2: if not inevitable, certainly more likely. Nevertheless, the road to

410
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: Berlin was long, and it was to be heavy going.

411
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Speaker 2: Brundage's first task was to go to Germany at the

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Speaker 2: behest of the American Olympic Association, a decision that had

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Speaker 2: been taken in February.

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Speaker 3: So he's going to go to Germany and he's going

415
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Speaker 3: to be assured. He's going to take a little tour. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: everything in Germany is all good. Everyone is check ill,

417
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 3: and don't worry about any future wars. That's just Jewish propaganda,

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Speaker 3: right right.

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Speaker 2: Our streets are filled with marching soldiers. Don't worry about it.

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Speaker 3: No, they're just they just we just like doing fucking

421
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: heel to toe walking.

422
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: Okay, we like uniforms. Who does racewalking? Racewalking just like you,

423
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 2: different kind of racewalking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a master race walking, but it's still we're

425
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Speaker 3: into it. We're just like you, bro.

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Speaker 2: We're just like you guys. It was obvious from the

427
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Speaker 2: jump that Brundage would approve entirely of the German efforts.

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Speaker 2: Before he left, he wrote this in an article for

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Speaker 2: Olympic News. The German committee is making every effort to

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Speaker 2: provide the finest facilities and plans to reproduce the Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles Olympic village. We should see in the youth of

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Speaker 2: Berlin the forebears of a race of free, independent thinkers,

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Speaker 2: accustomed to the democracy of sport, a race disdainful of

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Speaker 2: sharp practice, tolerant of the rights of others, and practicing

435
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: the Golden Rule because it believes in it. Yes, that's

436
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 2: how would described nineteen thirty six Germans. Tolerance of the

437
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: rights of others.

438
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 3: That sounds like the Germany I know, and I've read

439
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 3: about in history books.

440
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: People can't stop talking about how much they love an

441
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 2: independent Poland it's the only thing on the books.

442
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 3: You can't walk down the street without something me like.

443
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 3: You know, Polish independence is great, great.

444
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: I'm such a brand of their being because there was

445
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 2: one last flag in Europe before Polish independence.

446
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 3: And I like it, and I like it. It's good

447
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 3: to happen. If there's one thing we can all agree

448
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: on here in Germany is that we have enough space

449
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: for everyone.

450
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: So I'm going to give as much detail as I

451
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 2: have on the trip Avery took, but I want to

452
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 2: actually first read you a summary of the whole trip

453
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: by Oliver Hilmes in his book Berlin in nineteen thirty six,

454
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: which I like less than Guy's book, but I appreciated

455
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: this passage. Brendage stayed in the capitol of the Third

456
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 2: Reich for six days, inspecting construction on the Olympic Stadium

457
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: and other facilities, visiting a number of museums, and generally

458
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: enjoying life. He had little time left over for meeting

459
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: representatives of Jewish athletics. When they told him that Jews

460
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: were no longer allowed to join German sports clubs, he replied,

461
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 2: in my club in Chicago, Jews are not permitted either.

462
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: That great, great cool.

463
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 2: I mean that's not a bad point vis a vis

464
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: the United States not going well on this, but it's

465
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 2: a bad point for you to make.

466
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, hey, you know, listen, we also don't

467
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 3: allow Jews here, So yeah, do what you need to do.

468
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: Who am I as hell? So who's to say the

469
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: Nazis are bad?

470
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 3: Who am I to try to change any of this shit?

471
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 3: So now I'm going to.

472
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: Give you the full story of his visit to Germany.

473
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: I just really found that paragraph funny. On his way

474
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: to Germany, before he actually gets there for the trip,

475
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: Brundage stops at Stockholm for a meeting of some international

476
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: athletic federation or another. They held a party at a

477
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 2: villa and he meets a guy named Carl diam there,

478
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: who's a He's tight with a lot of major German

479
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 2: sporting officials. He's a big wig in German sporting. DM

480
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: invites him to lunch the next day while with Leveled,

481
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: that half Jewish German sporting official and Justice W. Meyerhoff,

482
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: a Jewish member of Berlin's sports club. Meyerhoff had obviously

483
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: faced repression at home being a German Jewish athlete. He

484
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: had been forced out of athletics like every other Jewish

485
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 2: person in Germany. But when the boycott threats cropped up,

486
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: the Nazis had said, hey, go put on a show

487
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: for this American or else. So he goes to lunch

488
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: with Leveled, and he tells Brundage, oh man, the Nazis,

489
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: those guys are great. You know, I tried to resign

490
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: from my sports club. Who wouldn't even let me, wouldn't

491
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: take my resignation. I was so proud of him. Great dudes.

492
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, all those guys. Oh the people in the brown

493
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 3: shirts and they're cool. Hell yeah, Oh we're all friends.

494
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: We all hang out. Oh this black guy, I got

495
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: it from now. We hugged to all. No.

496
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a runner, so like I felt like

497
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: fingernails were slowing me down. I just took them all

498
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: off myself, you know, to try and get more aerodynamic.

499
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: That's why I lost all this weight. Yeah, I'm just

500
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: trying to make a way for DM later wrote of

501
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 2: the meeting, Brundage was visibly impressed. Avery is wined and

502
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: dined in Stockholm by German officials who praise him as

503
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: an athlete, a businessman, and a potential friend to the

504
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: German people. When he arrived in East Prussia on September twelfth,

505
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: one day short of a nine to eleven, he was

506
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: ready to believe whatever the Nazis told him. Or one

507
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: day long of a nine to eleven. I messed up

508
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: my nine to eleven joke, but I was gotta make

509
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: one anyway. I'm going to quote from Walters again. He

510
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: met Jewish sports leaders, who under the watchful eyes of

511
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: Nazi handlers, assured Brundage that conditions were not as the

512
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: foreign newspapers were suggesting. Brundage was further handicapped by his

513
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: inability to speak German, so any inferences that the Jewish

514
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: sportsman may have may have made would have been blocked

515
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: out by the Nazis. In turn, Brundage also met his

516
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: old friend von Halt, who assured him that there were

517
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: no obstacles to Jews making the Olympic team, a pledge

518
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: echoed by von Schamer und Austen, with whom the American

519
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: got on well. By the end of the week, Brundage

520
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 2: not only felt content that the Jews were getting a

521
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: fair deal, but he was also dazzled by the seeming

522
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 2: prosperity in order of the new Germany. America could learn

523
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: much from Germany, he was to say in a speech

524
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: eighteen months later. She is efficient and hard working and

525
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: has spirit.

526
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: God. That so easy for this fool to be like,

527
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: just well, I'm convinced.

528
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's all I needed to say.

529
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: They said the words that I came here desperately wanting

530
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: to hear, so that we could continue with the Olympics.

531
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: They told me what I wanted to hear, and I

532
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: didn't ask another question.

533
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: God.

534
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: So, like most prominent people after Avery died, people had

535
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: papers back then, right, and his papers get donated to

536
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: a museum, And as a result, we have the notes

537
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: that he took while writing out because when he gets

538
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: back to the US, he gives a speech about his

539
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: trip to Remony right to the American Olympic Committee, and

540
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: the notes that he had while writing that speech include

541
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 2: three bullet points that he took during his meeting with Hitler.

542
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: So while Brundage is like sitting down meeting Hitler, these

543
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: are his notes. One a God, two giving back self respect,

544
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: three a man of the people.

545
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 3: His first bullet point is a god. Yes, oh my God.

546
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: Bulletvoind four dreamy eyes.

547
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: That is, we're gonna like that some of because other

548
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: Olympic officials go and meet with Hitler, some of them

549
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 2: are literally like man. But you know what the photographers

550
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: never get across is how good this guy looks? Uh?

551
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: Why did you uh draw a picture of Hitler naked?

552
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 3: In the margins of the few notes here.

553
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: Avery, this speech is just a drawing that you label

554
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: as what I assume Hitler's penis looks like, are you

555
00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 2: doing okay?

556
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 3: Yeah? So did it go well?

557
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it is. We do get like, it's

558
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: funny that the pubic hair is shaved like the mustache.

559
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: We get it, we get the bit, but it lost

560
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: out a speech. Really, it's a lot of detail on

561
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: the vein here. Yeah. So it becomes clear at this

562
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 2: point that Avery Brundage was not just an Olympics obsessive

563
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: who got tricked by the Nazis or even cave to

564
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: them because he wanted a job. He was himself a

565
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: howling fascist, right, and so once he returned he gives

566
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: this big speech to the American Olympic Committee, and in

567
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: it he complains that before Hitler, Germany had suffered from debt,

568
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: undernourished youth, feverish gayety, and night life until the hardest

569
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: young men, by which he did not mean to imply gaiety,

570
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: but rather the brown Shirts rose up to fight back

571
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: of Hitler's things are just too gay here, it was too.

572
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: Gay in Berlin.

573
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: Yes, stop it with violence, that is what he's literally saying.

574
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: I mean that that was a very popular conservative talking

575
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: point of the day and today of the Hitler's thugs

576
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: who were then murdering gay people, communist activists Jews in

577
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: the street. Avery wrote that they were quote apparently doing

578
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: useful work.

579
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: I love that.

580
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: He's like, look, maybe I'm wrong, but like it seems good,

581
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: it seems fine.

582
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, a dirty job, but someone literally has to do it.

583
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like, you know, obviously the Jews should

584
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: be able to compete, but you know, they're leaders in communism,

585
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: so it's it's understandable that the Germans would need to

586
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: get a handle.

587
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: On him, right, that's right.

588
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: Avery also noted that the Germans had promised that no

589
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: Jews would be prohibited from competing in any way, so

590
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: there really was no need for a boycott.

591
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: Quote.

592
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: I was given positive assurance in writing that there will

593
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: be no discrimination against Jews. You can't ask for more

594
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: than that, and I think the guarantee will be fulfilled.

595
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 3: Wait, he wrote down, you can't ask, you can't ask

596
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: more than that.

597
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: That's Fuddy Hitler said they weren't going to do anything bad.

598
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you telling me you can't be trusted? Yeah,

599
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 3: he wrote it down on a piece of paper. I mean,

600
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: who the fuck would go against something they wrote on paper,

601
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: bro It.

602
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: Is like, well, not in Avery's defense, but it's wild.

603
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: But basically every man who is of his socioeconomic level

604
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: anywhere in power in the West during this period is

605
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 2: doing the same thing. It's been like, well, Hitler said

606
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: he's not a bad guy. Who are we to argue? Oh?

607
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: Man, it is. It really does go to show that,

608
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: like people really are willing to believe whatever someone in

609
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 3: a nice suit tells them and is written down on

610
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: some nice glossy paper like you know.

611
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: I think the key corollary to that is if that

612
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: makes their lives easier, right Right. Avery's life is made

613
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: hard by challenging Hitler, so he won't challenge Hitler, so

614
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: he needs to believe that Hitler's dope, right yeah.

615
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: But so is everyone else. So does everyone else who's

616
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: believing him. You know, there's like enough people out there

617
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: who are just there. They want to believe that everything's

618
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: going to be okay for whatever reason, whether it's because

619
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: they to compete.

620
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: In the electoral human desire, right.

621
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 3: But it's like just this general idea of like, you know,

622
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 3: the problem is that, uh, these oppressed people complain too much.

623
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: Is kind of the through line with all these these people.

624
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: Look, yeah, these people are getting invaded or whatever. But

625
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: like if we stand up to fucking Russia, to the

626
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: United States, to whoever's doing the invasion in this situation,

627
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: that makes my life hard. So I'm just not got it.

628
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there's just no incentive for me to not

629
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: believe this blatant line.

630
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like George W. Bush seems problematic, but like at

631
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: the end of the day, like I got I got,

632
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: I got a mortgage, you know, yeah, Like, uh yeah,

633
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: it's it's great anyway. That's how humans, apparently are. The

634
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: crux of his argument in favor of Germany actually rested

635
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: on a quite cunning stance, which is that he had

636
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: succeeded in getting the Nazis to promise to let Jews

637
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: participate in the games. This, he told the American Olympic Committee,

638
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: was all the Olympics could do since they were funded

639
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: in a political organization. Every person deserved the chance to compete,

640
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: and the Olympics had a responsibility to ensure that, but

641
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: it would not be reasonable for the event to take

642
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: any stance on Germany's internal political system. This argument works,

643
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: and you can see again how that's a comforting argument

644
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: to make.

645
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: Right. We simply can't care about much beyond this. Right now.

646
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: We're a political we have to be a political.

647
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, the AOC has another vote and they reversed their position.

648
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: Balleyla Tour gives Brundage a pat on the back and

649
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: assured him that the job was his. But their problems

650
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: persisted because after the AOC's vote came a steady drumbeat

651
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: of stories of Jews being murdered or beaten and forced

652
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: from public life. Many people wondered if Avery might be

653
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: full of shit. One of them was his successor at

654
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: the Amateur Athletic Association, which Brundage had controlled as president

655
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: into leaving that year to run the AOC. This guy

656
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: was a judge, Jeremiah Mahoney, and he publicly accused Brundage

657
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 2: of having been wined and dined by Hitler and claimed

658
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: that behind the scenes, he'd sought to intimidate anyone who

659
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: didn't trust the Nazis. And Mahoney is a pretty cool

660
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: guy in this, although he is also going to wind

661
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: up in a really awkward situation. But for the next year,

662
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: Mahoney's going to be one of the leading figures in

663
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: the effort to force a US boycott of the Olympics.

664
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: A vote is set for December nineteen thirty five, and

665
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: that August, twenty thousand people show up for an anti

666
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: fascist rally at Madison Square Garden. That same month, August

667
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: of thirty five, the IOC tried to deflect criticism by

668
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: sending another delegation to Berlin. So they're like, well, sending

669
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: Brundage didn't work because they're just like, well, he seems

670
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: to really like Hitler, So what sending.

671
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: You like swast on all of the official notepaper here.

672
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: He's growing a mustache and I don't like where it's going.

673
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, people aren't starting to believe you may not be,

674
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: you know, an impartial third party observer here.

675
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: So in order to deal with the fact that people

676
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: didn't trust Brundage, they decide to send a guy who's

677
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: even more of a Nazi general Charles Cheryl now Cheryl Chucky.

678
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: Chucky s is one of the three Americans on the

679
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: iOS Bored and he has the distinction of maybe being

680
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: the shittiest person in an organization that hired entirely based

681
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: on how much you sucked. In Berlin nineteen thirty six,

682
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 2: all of her Hilms writes of him quote, his main

683
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: qualification for this task was something completely different, a conspicuous

684
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: personal fascination with Adolf Hitler. As long ago as June

685
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three, in a letter to The New York Times,

686
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: Cheryl had praised the newly elected German Chancellor as the

687
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: strongest man in Europe. On twenty fourth of August nineteen

688
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: thirty five, when Cheryl was received by Hitler for an

689
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: hour long conversation, it was a dream come true. The

690
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: retired army general seemed to feel as if he'd been

691
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: called to something higher. Perhaps he saw himself as the

692
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: new US ambassador in Berlin. In any case, he wrote

693
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: up a report on his meeting with Hitler and sent

694
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: it to none other than Franklin D. Roosevelt. Cheryl raved

695
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: about Hitler's personal modesty, his impressive physical condition, that his

696
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 2: upstanding character.

697
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: The bullet points on that one. Yeah, God, I was

698
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: just like some guy, just send me Hitler smile. So

699
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: I don't know he drew as pregnant for some reason.

700
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 3: Not really sure what to do with this. I think

701
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: this is just fan fiction at this point.

702
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thus was created deviant art. I'm gonna continue

703
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: that quote from Helms please, and his conversation with Cheryl,

704
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: Hitler made no concessions. Jews were not being discriminated against,

705
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: he lied, They were merely being treated as separate from

706
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: the German people and thus could not be members of

707
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: the German Olympic team. Cheryl pressed the Furwer on the issue.

708
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: He was Germany's friend, he said, and wanted only the

709
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: best for the country. But if the fewer insisted on

710
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: this position, the IOC would take the games away from Berlin.

711
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 2: Hitler snarled that in that case, the Third Reich would

712
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: stage a purely German Olympic Games.

713
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, we'll start our own Germany with Hooker's blackjack.

714
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was lying about this. In the early days

715
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: of the Third Reich, his hold on power was not

716
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 2: yet total, the army still represented potential resistance, and Germany

717
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: was still pretty weak militarily and economically compared to its neighbors.

718
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: Hitler could not afford to put on a German Games.

719
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: Would have had a fraction of the grandeur of the

720
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: Olympic Games, and the gesture would have made Germany look

721
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 2: like even more of a pariah state than it actually was.

722
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: The nineteen thirty six Olympics were more than anything, Germany's

723
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: attempt to show themselves as turning back towards the rest

724
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: of the world. For all of his talk of awetarchy

725
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 2: of independence for Germany, this mattered to Hitler. He wanted

726
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: Germany to take I mean the phrase he would use

727
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: a lot was Germanys to take its place in the sun. Right,

728
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 2: you can't do that if you're like holding your own

729
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: sad loaner Olympics for people nobody likes. We're calling it

730
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: the no Jews Olympics.

731
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: It's going to be here in Germany and we're just

732
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: mostly going to run next to each other and talk

733
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: about how much he fucking hates the Jews.

734
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was basically the ideal. But it matters a

735
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: lot to Hitler that Americans in particular will be at

736
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: his games, so he does actually listen when Cheryl makes

737
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: an offer, And Cheryl's offer is, look, man, I'm not

738
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: asking you to actually treat Jewish people better. If you

739
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: just have the Jewish sports federations nominate a couple of

740
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: athletes take them on, ask that the phrase Cheryl uses

741
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: his token Jews for the German.

742
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. Breaking racism here. Yeah. Yeah, they're just

743
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: they're just saying it out loud, which is nice. Yeah. Yeah.

744
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: Not only does Hitler agree to the idea, but he

745
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: invites Cheryl to attend a special event that year, a

746
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: rally in Nuremberg, you know.

747
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: The one that heard of it.

748
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: Immediately after that rally, the Nuremberg Laws, which officially codified

749
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: the elimination of Jewish rights in Germany, were announced. Cheryl

750
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: returned home pretending this had not happened, and, like Brundage,

751
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: raved about the wondrous things the Nazis were doing in

752
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: Germany and promised that they would totally let a Jew

753
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: play on their team. So everything's good, everything's cool. There's

754
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 2: going to be a couple of token Jews.

755
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 3: We got this, don't worry. Please let it go forward.

756
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 2: And the Nazis do pick a couple of Jewish people.

757
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: One of them is Helena Meyer. Meyer is a prodigy fencer.

758
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: She's very good at fencing, and she is currently because

759
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: you know, she's living through this whole period. She sees

760
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: what's happening in Germany, and so she goes to college

761
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 2: in California. She goes to a small college in California.

762
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: Good call given the time.

763
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 3: Yep, And it's one of those things.

764
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: She actually didn't consider herself Jewish. She's raised Catholic, but

765
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: her dad, I think, is Jewish. Right, So the Nazis

766
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: do consider her that. But Helena also has this kind

767
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: of it's going to prove to be a delusional belief

768
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 2: that like, well, if I can just convince them I

769
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: consider myself a Christian, they'll be fine with me.

770
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, no, for sure, that's not how

771
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: it works. Yeah no, it definitely works that way. It's

772
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 3: just like no, no, no, no, no, I'm not like a

773
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: jujuw right. Right.

774
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: She gets publicly invited to the Olympics, and there's some

775
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: back and forth. She publicly declines at a point, but

776
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: basically her line is I want my citizenship restored, and

777
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: they restore her in her family citizenship right. And Helena's

778
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: line again is basically that like, well, I'm half Jewish

779
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: and not observant, so I shouldn't be persecuted. The Nazis

780
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: again don't really agree to this, but they pretend to

781
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: Another German Jewish athlete they're going to pick out is

782
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 2: Gretel Bergmann. Bergmann had immigrated to the United Kingdom for college.

783
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: She was an exceptionally talented runner and long jump competitor.

784
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: She was so good at this that her college in

785
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: the UK gives her a handicap when she is competing

786
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: at local events, and she still wins all of them.

787
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: Damn.

788
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 2: She's just very good at this. Since Jewish athletes had

789
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 2: been banned from public competition at home, she decides to

790
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: try out for the British team, and she's like, look,

791
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 2: I'll play for Britain and I'll beat my own former country,

792
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: and that'll be kind of nice as a Jewish exile, right,

793
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: Like sounds satisfying, right, And she's particularly excited because when

794
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: she has her big qualifying competition and does in fact

795
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: qualify for the UK Olympic team, her father is there.

796
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 3: He manages to.

797
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: Secure approval to visit England on business, but after the

798
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: competition he's like, hey, I'm only actually able to be

799
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: here because the Nazis want to get you to compete

800
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: for Germany, and his presence thus is kind of a

801
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: threat for the Germans. They're like, well, we can either

802
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,720
Speaker 2: send your father to you or we can take them away.

803
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: Whose team do you want to be on, you know,

804
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: and you know again, that's why I'm not gonna got

805
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: no judgment for Gretel here in deciding to, you know,

806
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: try out for the German Olympic team, because Brundage and

807
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: Ballet Latour didn't actually care about the welfare of German Jews,

808
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: just that they could show Jewish participation in German Olympic

809
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: teams to satisfy the boycotters. No real effort was made

810
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: to ensure that stuff like this was like real offers,

811
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: and as a result, the primary thing that the American

812
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: Olympic Committee succeeds in doing is in bringing more violence

813
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: and danger into the lives of German Jewish athletes, because

814
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: all they care about is the look right. They don't

815
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: actually care that conditions have changed, just that they can

816
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 2: argue they have. If Brundage had been at all aware

817
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 2: or concerned by this, he showed no sign of it.

818
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: In late nineteen thirty five, his only real worry was

819
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: that Jewish American sporting associations were continuing to advocate for

820
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 2: a boycott of the Berlin Olympics. Brundage declared this a

821
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 2: Jewish communist conspiracy, using language he may well have taken

822
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: back from his nineteen thirty four trip to see the Reich.

823
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,479
Speaker 2: Judge Jeremiah Mahoney, president of the Amateur Athletic Association, which

824
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: organized the US Olympic trials, continued to attack him as

825
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: a Nazi stooge, alongside US socialist groups and even a

826
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: number of conservative politicians. And I'll give some some credit

827
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: to New York Mayor Fiarella LaGuardia there, who was like, nah, man,

828
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: we shouldn't do this, we shouldn't go do an Olympics

829
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 2: over there. That congratulations LaGuardia, you earned your airport.

830
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was gonna say, only good guy that's ever

831
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: been had an airport named after them, So I don't

832
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: know the rest of them. Dullest definitely, definitely not a

833
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 3: good guy. Oh boy, bad airport guy.

834
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dulles and Reagan airports are like the warring war

835
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: crimes airports up there, and then a little north you

836
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: got LaGuardia, So there you go.

837
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 3: Hey. Yeah.

838
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: The anti boycott side of things, though, is also this

839
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: is part of the complex history here, a lot more

840
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 2: diverse than you might initially get, yes, because a big

841
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: part of it is a number of black athletes who

842
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 2: have a really good point. In October of nineteen thirty five,

843
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 2: Mahoney tells a crowd at Columbia University that he wished

844
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 2: to God quote the Nazis could witness an athletic competition

845
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: in this country. The next guy up after him is

846
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson, a black American Olympics sprinter, And when Mahoney

847
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: says this, Johnson gets kind of pissed, and he comes

848
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 2: up and he says, I think Justice Mahoney should clean

849
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: up the South where negroes are barred from his amateur

850
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: athletic union and discriminated against an Olympic selections.

851
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: And it's like, it's.

852
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: A fair point. He probably shouldn't have said. The Nazis

853
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: should see how we do sports here.

854
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's how we do sports here, Mahoney. Maybe you

855
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: should see how we do sports here.

856
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. H Now, Jesse Owens, who I think people still

857
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: broadly know know of, was going out here. I mean,

858
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: he's in the thirty six Olympics. He's gonna win like

859
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 2: fucking everything, the fastest man alive, right, But he goes

860
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: back and forth on whether or not to boycott the

861
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 2: Olympics beforehand. In thirty five, during a November of nineteen

862
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 2: thirty five radio interview, he stated his opinion that the

863
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 2: US should withdraw if Germany continued to discriminate against minorities,

864
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: as he put it, but his coach talked to him

865
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: out of it by using the same logic Ben Johnson

866
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: had used, why would you oppose Germany for doing the

867
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: same shit your fellow citizens due to you?

868
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 3: Right?

869
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: And the NAACP head Walter White no relation writes a

870
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: letter he's he considers making like a big open statement

871
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: of basically the NAACP supports a boycott. He never actually

872
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: does that, but he does write a letter to Owens

873
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: where he's like, you should you consider boycotting basically even

874
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: so you know, they never kind of tip into doing it,

875
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: and Owens obviously does not ultimately boycott the Olympics, but

876
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: the amount of popular support for a boycott in late

877
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five terrifies Brondage, who feels his chances of

878
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: being appointed to the IOC committee slipping away. In late

879
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five, he was a constant voice for US participation,

880
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: telling anyone who had and revolutionaries are not bred on

881
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: the playing field.

882
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: See this is this is how you He just becomes

883
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 3: more anti Semitic. As this goes along, I'm sure because

884
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: he's just like these fucking Jews. They don't believe it.

885
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: When I brought the piece of paper, I brought the paper.

886
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: Why don't they understand that Hitler says he's not gonna

887
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: hurt them.

888
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hitler is cool, he dressed his good he's godlike,

889
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 3: and he is a strong dick vein. I've drawn it

890
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: right here in the margins of my notes. Jews don't

891
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: believe a word of it.

892
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: Speaking of dick veins, do you know what it'll make

893
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 2: your dick vein pop.

894
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: Ooh, a lot of things, But what do you have

895
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: in particular times? Possibly the sponsors of this podcast. I

896
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 3: love it. Pop my dick vein with your hymns. I

897
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: don't know if it's hymns. I think it's we've had hymns.

898
00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: I think anyway, we're back. So Brundage was willing to

899
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: acknowledge in private his belief that quote the Hitler rites

900
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,479
Speaker 2: did not intend to live up to the pledges given

901
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: to the IOC, but his overwhelming public sentiment was that

902
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: those mean old Jews were trying to ruin everyone else's

903
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: good time. Surprise Price surprise, as he told the secretary

904
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: of the British Olympic Association, my own view is that

905
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: we are pandering too much to the Jews. In an

906
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 2: article for the Journal of American Studies, Carolyn Marvin summarizes

907
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 2: his growing anti Semitic paranoia. The Jews were complaining too much,

908
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: first according to a peculiarly circular IOC standard of evidence

909
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: as to whether their complaints had substance, and second because

910
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: they were like that. Brundage regularly observed in his correspondence

911
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: with other sports officials that the Jews have been clever

912
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: enough to realize the publicity value of sports. He was

913
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: informed by j. Siegfried Enstrom, president of the International Amateur

914
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: Athletic Federation, that the main reason of the Aryan movement

915
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: in Germany was that the Jews have taken too prominent

916
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: a posis in certain branches of life, and happen, as

917
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: the Jews very often do when they get in the majority,

918
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: misuse their positions.

919
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's the second point of you know, the

920
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 3: Jews are like that, you know how they be, you

921
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 3: know how they are are?

922
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: Right, She's interesting that that not language has still been

923
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: going around.

924
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and also just like a side note

925
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 3: to this whole thing is that it just this whole

926
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 3: thing kind of reminds me, and maybe not even that

927
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 3: much of a circuitous way, but like of the way

928
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 3: that the trans athlete debate kind of like god, yes,

929
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: it through everything, just this like this way of using

930
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: sport and sportsmanship and kind of like the you know,

931
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: oh there they're always they're overrepresented, and they're everywhere, and

932
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 3: they complain all the time. It's like the exact same

933
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: type of shit, and and it's used to uh, you know,

934
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 3: it's I don't know, it's the beginning of what is

935
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 3: an event, will you know, movement to try to hurt

936
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 3: this sh.

937
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: Trying to force them out of public life, yes, which

938
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: is a prelude to worse things exactly. It's interesting too

939
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: that you bring that up. I think we're gonna have

940
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 2: to do another episode because there's so much. There's still

941
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 2: more on Brundage than I've wrote, but there's also there's

942
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: so much about the thirty six Olympics, and one of

943
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: them is they have a trans panic, like that they

944
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: have a panic over what they think are They don't

945
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: use the term transgender. This of course, I don't really

946
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: think anyone did, but they have, they have what is

947
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: a panic over that, and like every time that happens,

948
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: what actually happens is a bunch of a bunch of

949
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: people who are a site we're assigned female at birth

950
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: and who identified as female were just baselessly attacked because

951
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: they didn't look feminine enough to some rando in the audience. Yeah,

952
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: like it's it's all the same shit, Like it's the

953
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: same like going over that like panic that those athletes

954
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 2: went through, and like one of them at least is

955
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 2: a Nazi, so it is harder to be simplified.

956
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 3: But like that doesn't make that right, you know.

957
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like it's always the same thing.

958
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: There's only one playbook. It just always works pretty well.

959
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's because of the way in

960
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,959
Speaker 3: which people kind of idealize and almost idealized sports and

961
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: make them uh you know, fake themselves out into thinking

962
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 3: they're in a political expression of like fair competition or whatever,

963
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: and so they you know, this is the exact same

964
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: thing where you just kind of go like you're messing

965
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: with the uh my idealized version of of of what

966
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: sports is and what it's supposed to be and and

967
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: they you know, but really it's to mask this, like,

968
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: I mean, they would say the same things. Listen, I'm

969
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 3: no fan of trans people. I think we can all

970
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 3: agree that. Yeah.

971
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'm big at it as ship, but we should.

972
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it's it's the exact same type of ship.

973
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah.

974
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: In private letters to other Olympic officials, Brundage went out

975
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: of his way to argue the Nazi party line claim

976
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 2: that most of the German Jewish athletes hadn't even been

977
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 2: good enough to qualify. Right, like they let a couple

978
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: of charity cases in. Right, you're still angry at the Nazis.

979
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: You know, these people would never have qualified if we

980
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 2: hadn't put on pressure. And that's bullshit. Gretel Bergmann had

981
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 2: to give up her seat on the British Olympic team

982
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: to compete for Germany, and she didn't get to compete.

983
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: She's led into a trial, and in her trial performances

984
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: to qualify for the German Olympic team, she equals the

985
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 2: all time German woman's high jump record. She does as

986
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 2: well as the best a German woman has ever done

987
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 2: at the high jump. In her qualifier and then after

988
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 2: the British team departs for Berlin and she can't go back,

989
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: she sent a letter saying, hey, actually you weren't good

990
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: enough lmao. Sorry we fucked you over here. Wow, it's

991
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: so bad for her. I mean, at least she's in

992
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: the fucking UK, right, so, but it's a real bummer, man.

993
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna quote from Carolyn Marvin again. Not only did

994
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: Jews exalt there and this is her talking about Brundage,

995
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,959
Speaker 2: not only did Jews exalt their own medical interests above

996
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: the independence of amateur sport. Not only did they fail

997
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: to appreciate the contribution of the Olympic movement to whatever

998
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: restraint they're at exercised. But also, Brundage argued, with increasing irritation,

999
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: Jewish protest would be counterproductive.

1000
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: In the long run.

1001
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: An Olympic boycott on account of the Jews would excite dangerous,

1002
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 2: possibly uncontrollable anti Semitic sympathies in America.

1003
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right.

1004
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we might have to murder you guys if

1005
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: you all, if you don't let us play do the

1006
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 2: high job, you know. Yeah, that's not our fault, that's

1007
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: on you.

1008
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, you can't blame us for one is eventually

1009
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 3: went down. Yeah, this is like, it's just so fucking sickening,

1010
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: just like the way in which people just just hearing

1011
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 3: people complain is enough to turn anyone into a Nazi.

1012
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and the thing that enrages them so much

1013
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: is that these complaints why they're reacting so negatively to

1014
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 2: the complaints. It's the same way like a two year

1015
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 2: old screams if they like grab a toy on the

1016
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: shelf at the store and you take it away, as

1017
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 2: they're afraid these mean old activists are going to take

1018
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: away their toy.

1019
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 3: They're fustrake. I was going to be in the Olympic committee.

1020
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: I was going to do to hundred. What was going

1021
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 3: to be the bu jumper.

1022
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like that's that's what's going on here, right, Yeah.

1023
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1024
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: Brundage again he is kind of groundbreaking and how he

1025
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: publicly justifies racism because after he goes on this like

1026
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, you guys better be worried if you if

1027
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: you protest you loud. He's like, now, I know a

1028
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 2: lot of smart conservative Jews and they all agree with me, right,

1029
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 2: they all think I'm in the right, So I'm not racist, right,

1030
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: the smart conservative Jews that I won't name all say

1031
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: I'm right.

1032
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, listen, I got I got

1033
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 3: binders full of Jews who think that, yeah, Jews complain

1034
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 3: too much and are not good at sports.

1035
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 2: He's also he uses the racism that's been drum up

1036
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: by the boycott to try and raise money for the Olympics.

1037
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 2: He writes a strategy letter to the AOC to his

1038
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 2: colleagues and says, the fact that the Jews are against

1039
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: us will arouse interest among thousands of people who have

1040
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: never subscribed before if we approached it. And because he's

1041
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: that kind of sociopath, and this is this is something

1042
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: the Nazis wouldn't do, not because it's worse, but this

1043
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: is just a very American.

1044
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 3: Way of being shitty. At the same time.

1045
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: As he's like, oh yeah, we can fund raised off

1046
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: of this racism, he's like, you know what else we

1047
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: could do. We got to tell a bunch of rich

1048
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: Jews that if they donate money to like put up

1049
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: Olympic ads, you know, that'll help convince the Germans to

1050
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,479
Speaker 2: be less mean to the Jews. You know, you can help,

1051
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: you can help your fellow Jews. If you give some

1052
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 2: money to the Olympics, ye.

1053
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: Know right, and it'll help change it'll, it'll, it'll warm

1054
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 3: you know Hitler's cold, cold heart.

1055
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 2: That was the one thing that could have stopped Hitler

1056
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: from his madness is if the Olympics had had a

1057
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 2: bigger boat billboard.

1058
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: I've been wrong this whole time. You know, maybe I

1059
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 3: thinks this whole Jews should die thing.

1060
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to call back my friend and take some ecstasy.

1061
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: Cut to like one of those nineties in the movie,

1062
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: Montash said, Shitler Vonnarus.

1063
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 3: Beautiful.

1064
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: At the end of nineteen thirty five, as the AAU

1065
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 2: met to take its final vote on whether or not

1066
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: to boycott the games, Mahoney continued to push the AAU

1067
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 2: to follow their collective conscience, telling gathered members the Nazi

1068
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: government wants more than American participation in a sporting contest.

1069
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: It wants to bring the American dollar into the very

1070
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: weakened Nazi treasury. And it wants you to picture Hitler

1071
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: with Uncle Sam standing behind him and saying we are

1072
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: with you, Adolph. And he is right on the money there.

1073
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: All of his efforts are for not. Though the AAU

1074
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: delegates vote fifty eight to fifty five ish in favor

1075
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: of attending the Olympics. Similar campaigns across the so called

1076
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 2: free world also collapsed under Hitler's charm offensive. Two days

1077
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: before the opening of the Games, at the thirty fifth

1078
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: session of the IOC, so with the session of the

1079
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: Committee right before the game start, Balley la Tour makes

1080
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: good on his promises to Avery Brunded. He orchestrates a

1081
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: coup against Ernst Yankee, the only member who've pronounced like

1082
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: three different ways, you know, the guy, the only member

1083
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 2: of the IOC who wasn't a piece of shit, the

1084
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:08,959
Speaker 2: one good guy.

1085
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1086
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: Yankee is expelled by a forty nine to zero vote.

1087
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 3: J yeah.

1088
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: Now General Cheryl is dead by this point. He drops

1089
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: dead right after coming back with hell yeah from his Hitler.

1090
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 2: So at least he got to That's nice, though, you know,

1091
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 2: he died, but at least he got to see Hitler.

1092
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. He just probably died when he was

1093
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: doing autoerotic exixiation to a picture he drew of Hitler's dick.

1094
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. That was the style at the time, yep.

1095
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: And so in nineteen thirty six, Brundage was present for

1096
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: the opening ceremonies of the Berlin Olympics, marching at the

1097
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 2: head of the US delegation. As you'd expect, the city

1098
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: was filled with battalions of uniformed Wehrmacht soldiers, a show

1099
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 2: of force somewhat at odds with the peaceable dream of

1100
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: Olympic competition. Some people are alike, boy, it seems like

1101
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: there's a lot of tens of thousands of uniforms marching

1102
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: around at this peaceful event.

1103
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 3: Sure are a lot of guns at this peace competition.

1104
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like the other countries don't have tens

1105
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 2: of thousands of uniformed soldiers marching around. Maybe an honor guard,

1106
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 2: you know, you do a little twenty one gun saluted.

1107
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: This is a lot of guys.

1108
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a bunch of guys. Well it's okay

1109
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 3: because they're they're doing race walking, so that's fine. Kiltoe, yeah, step,

1110
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it.

1111
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: Kind Of at the start of the events, we get

1112
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: a chapter of one of the more complicated sporting stories

1113
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: of the of the Nazi era, which is the Hindenburg

1114
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: Sales into Berlin, with Max Schmelling on it.

1115
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: Oh.

1116
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Schmelling is a He's he's a German boxer. He's

1117
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 2: one of the best boxers of his day, and he is.

1118
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: He has just gone up against a guy named Joe Louis.

1119
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 3: Joe Louises.

1120
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 2: If you talk to boxing people and you ask who

1121
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 2: is the best boxer of all time, you'll get a

1122
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: number of different names, but the name you might get

1123
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: most often is Joe Lewis. He's at least got to

1124
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: be up there. He's like twenty years. He's basically very

1125
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: close to undefeated. I think his records like fifty four wins,

1126
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 2: four losses, like forty two of those wins are by

1127
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: knockout right. And one of the very few men to

1128
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 2: beat Lewis in a fight was Smelling and Shmelling does

1129
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 2: it when he's thirty, so he's considered over the hill.

1130
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: Schmelling is able to win because he spends He just

1131
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 2: like obsessively watches every fight Lewis has been in and

1132
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 2: like learns his strategy and he wins. And this is

1133
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 2: seen is like this huge thing for the Nazis, proof

1134
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 2: of racial superiority. It's, you know, a great lead into

1135
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: these games. What's kind of weird on the backside of

1136
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: this is that for all of that, like Shmelling and

1137
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: Lewis and Schmelling will have a rematch that Lewis wins,

1138
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: and it's made in this very big propaganda thing for

1139
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: the US. Joe Lewis is treated like shit by the

1140
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: United States his whole life because he's a black man,

1141
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 2: like he's when he's put in the army to have

1142
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: like a pr role basically, and he's still discriminated against

1143
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: massively one of the only white guys in the world.

1144
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: He's not shitty to Joe Lewis, is Max smelling out

1145
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 2: and Smelling pays for his funeral when he dies. They

1146
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: are friends for life.

1147
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, they're best friends forever. And if you know,

1148
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 3: if at any moment you want to feel really good

1149
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 3: about the United States for like, you know, being against

1150
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 3: Nazism and all that stuff, do yourself a favor and

1151
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: don't just because remember that so many of the people

1152
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 3: we're talking about, whether it's ahead of these like you know,

1153
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 3: Olympic committees or like people who are like generals in

1154
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 3: the military, they're all just like, listen, we also hate Jews,

1155
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 3: and yeah, we also discriminate openly against all African Americans

1156
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 3: in this country. So it's it's really you.

1157
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, it's one of those I'm always every time

1158
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 2: it comes around the Normandy anniversary, the anniversary of Stalingrad.

1159
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: But I've got nothing but respect for the people who

1160
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: actually had to fight the.

1161
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 3: Not and every single soldier went in there and kicked

1162
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 3: Nazi ass. I love country.

1163
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: This country wound up politics just barely missing, you know that.

1164
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: Yes, so by by a fucking by a fraction, by

1165
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 3: a hair we ended up not being aligned with this

1166
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 3: Nazi project, and.

1167
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 2: A lot of guys like Brundage probably went to his

1168
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: grave regretting that, you know.

1169
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well you at least you would hope.

1170
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: So, yeah, so we have our Nazi Games. The Berlin

1171
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: Games start out. The theme of the day is this,

1172
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 2: like you know, the the opening of the Olympics is

1173
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: all of these German like military marches, right, and everyone

1174
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 2: else kind of just with their athletes walking around being like, boy,

1175
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: it seems like there's a weird number of soldiers every ship.

1176
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 3: We didn't bring enough guns? Should we have guns?

1177
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 2: In fact, when he shows up, when Hitler shows up,

1178
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 2: he's he's marching with ballet letur and leveled.

1179
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: Right.

1180
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 2: These other IOC representatives, right, and they are like fucking

1181
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: The President of the Olympics is next to Hitler and

1182
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 2: they are flanked by dozens of SS men like a

1183
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:02,479
Speaker 2: political games. Nothing going on with this, this SS march

1184
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 2: to the Olympic stadium.

1185
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: This is all just about piece and sports spainship.

1186
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 2: In the book Berlin Games, Guy Walters writes, by the

1187
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: time Hitler reached his seat at four h five pm,

1188
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: there was no doubt that he was already the star

1189
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 2: of the Olympics. These were his games now, not ballet

1190
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: le Tours and most certainly not Kubertin's. As if to

1191
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: reinforce the Nazification of the Games, the orchestra struck up

1192
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 2: with Deutschland uber Alles and the Horst Wessel Song, both

1193
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,479
Speaker 2: of which and herald at the start of the Winter

1194
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: Games back in February. So that's great now. A major

1195
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: topic of discussion was the precise nature of the salutes

1196
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 2: that different Olympic teams chose to make as they marched

1197
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: past Hitler in the reviewing stand. This was complicated by

1198
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: the fact that the Olympic salute. There's an Olympic salute.

1199
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know there was an Olympic salute.

1200
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think we use it anymore because it's

1201
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 2: basically a reversed Nazi salute. They're very similar, and this

1202
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: is because we've been doing variants of the solute that

1203
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 2: the Nazis what like for a long time. But also

1204
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: Hitler is known for he's kind of a lazy guy

1205
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, and so sometimes when Hitler,

1206
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 2: prior even to this, he'll give he'll use the wrong

1207
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: arm to do his fascist salute. When the Greeks give

1208
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 2: an Olympic salute and Hitler responds with an Olympic salute,

1209
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: no one's really sure. Well, we're not sure if the

1210
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: Greeks meant to do a fascist salute, and we're not

1211
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: sure what Hitler meant to do. Nobody actually knows.

1212
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 3: Hitler is the one guy he always says that that

1213
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 3: little hile, right, he's really lazy with it. He has

1214
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: a lazy hile. He really he really half asses the higle. Yeah,

1215
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: I guess it's because they're him. He's like, I don't

1216
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: have to hile that much.

1217
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to be fair to Hitler, which I

1218
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: usually don't say. It is all like, yeah, he shouldn't

1219
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: hile him. That is kind of weird, right, I don't know,

1220
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not going to be seat.

1221
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 3: Fair to Hitler, he said, yeah.

1222
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: So the French come by next and they do another

1223
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 2: Olympic salute, but the crowd is mostly Germans. They did

1224
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: mostly Germans who lived through World War One and like

1225
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: the starvation and mass death and so a lot of

1226
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 2: people kind of interpret what the French team is doing

1227
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: as a fascist salute, which they see is not that

1228
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: they don't see that as the French thing we're fascist too.

1229
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 2: They see it as like the French being like, hey,

1230
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: things are good now, We're not going to have another

1231
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: war because like most of this audience of Germans really

1232
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 2: don't want another war with France. It was a bad

1233
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: time that yeah, And so they the audience cheers when

1234
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,439
Speaker 2: they see the French do this because they're like, hey,

1235
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 2: maybe wait, maybe I don't have to send my son

1236
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: off to dialect my brother did and Flanders or whatever

1237
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 2: my friend's drowning mud. Yeah sounds great. Hitler is really

1238
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: unhappy with this because he hears a bunch of Germans

1239
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 2: cheering for the French and he's like, well, maybe they

1240
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: really don't want.

1241
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 3: What what is about to happen? Right? Albert Nazis, like

1242
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: what is going on here?

1243
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: Albert Spear describes Hitler as quote more disturbed than pleased

1244
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: by the Berliners cheers. The British come next, and this

1245
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: is there's some moments of pride for both the Brits

1246
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 2: and the Americans. Here the British and also India and Australia,

1247
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 2: who are part of the British Empire. They don't salute

1248
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 2: at all, and neither do the Americans, who are lit

1249
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 2: in their march by Avery Brundage. And here's how Guy

1250
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: Walters describes that moment. The United States was one of

1251
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: the last teams to enter the stadium. We were a

1252
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: total disgrace, recalled Joanna de Tuscan. About thirty or forty

1253
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 2: non members of the team, fat with cigarette actions on

1254
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 2: their clothes, marched at the head of the team. Marty

1255
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 2: Glickman felt that the word marching was inappropriate to describe

1256
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 2: how the Americans proceeded. American athletes don't march very well,

1257
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: he wrote, We kind of moved in our usual loose

1258
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 2: skated walk, and the team's head was Avery Brundage, who

1259
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 2: was neither fat nor a smoker, and was one of

1260
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 2: the few who really did march, and honestly, I have

1261
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: some American pride for that. Yeah, we've bet are fascist

1262
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: at the front, but everyone else just.

1263
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 3: Looks like shit still around, hungover as hell, Chane smoking. Yes,

1264
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 3: that is shit like that. That makes America great. You know.

1265
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 3: That's the fact that we're just like Listen, I learned

1266
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 3: how to do one thing really well. I'm not also

1267
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 3: going to get march. Yeah, I'm gonna get good at this.

1268
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 2: Fuck you, I'm literally Jesse Owens.

1269
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 3: I don't have to impress you. Yeah, I'm doing this

1270
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 3: for a metal later.

1271
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to continue that quote. As the

1272
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: Americans marched past Hitler, they removed their boaters and clutched

1273
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 2: them to their hearts. Whereas other flags were dipped in

1274
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: honor of the fewer, the stars and stripes remained resolutely aloft,

1275
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 2: which caused a murmur of discontent around the stadium. Marty

1276
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: Glickman recalled the moment when the team passed Hitler. We

1277
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 2: looked up at the box where he was flanked by

1278
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: Gerrying and Gebels and Hesse and Himmler and all the

1279
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 2: rest of the Nazi hierarchy, and you could hear the

1280
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 2: comment run through our crowd as we were walking in. Hey,

1281
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: he looks like Charlie Chaplin. And this has been pretty

1282
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: America critical, as we often are, but by God, am

1283
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 2: I proud to hear that.

1284
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 3: Yes, it's beautiful. I've got that Lee Greenwood song running

1285
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 3: in my heart. Now it's beautiful. Yeah.

1286
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 2: So we will continue at some later date with the

1287
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 2: story of Hitler at the Olympics and maybe finish up

1288
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 2: some Avery brundage. But you get the gist of why

1289
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 2: brundage sucks with all this.

1290
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like a dickhead to complete. Yeah, I

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01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 3: don't I don't like him, and I don't support him.

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01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 3: I'll tell you that he's a bastard.

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01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I reckon. That'll do it for us. Here

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01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 2: at Behind the Podcast a podcast about bastards. Matt leeb

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01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: Bara podcast Bar New pod h A S B A

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01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: R A h.

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01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 3: A s B A r A. Uh. Yeah, you can

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01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 3: check it out wherever podcasts are given it away for free.

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01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 3: Uh and you know to uh, you know, to quote

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01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 3: Benjamin and Yahoo. I want you to come should it come,

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01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 3: So check it out. Also, I just want to give

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01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 3: a quick shout out to just a couple of live

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01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 3: shows Francesca and I are doing. We're going to be

1304
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: in We're going to be in Chicago during the DNC

1305
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 3: doing a couple of shows Monday, August sixteenth, and I

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01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 3: think Tuesday, August seventeenth, we're going to be at Lincoln Launch.

1307
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 3: One is going to be a live podcast Situation Room

1308
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 3: Slash Bad Haspara. The other is going to be a

1309
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 3: stand up show. So yeah, check out, check out that

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01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 3: if you're in Chicago August, you know, fucking nineteenth, August twentieth,

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01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:40,959
Speaker 3: come please, it'll be fun.

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01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 2: So yes, check that out. See Matt and Francesca live.

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01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 2: And you won't see us live because we don't have

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01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 2: any plans to do that in these time soon. Maybe

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01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 2: someday again.

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01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 3: You guys should. It would be sick.

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01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: One of these days I'll leave my house again, Matt.

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01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: I keep saying in that and not leaving my house,

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01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 2: but one of these days I might.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, it's great out there in the world, bro, you know. Yeah,

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01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 3: that's what everyone says about the world. Yeah. Everyone loves

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01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 3: the world and how good it is.

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01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the overwhelming thing I get from social media.

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01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 2: People are happy about the world.

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01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 3: If you go outside world good, nothing bad ever happened.

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01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, everybody go be like an Olympian and

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01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 2: touch grass.

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

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01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

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01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast