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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for Session three seventy four the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

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Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, I'm Jasmine Ellis.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Jamel Hill, and.

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Speaker 2: We're on the Therapy for Black Girls podcasts.

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Speaker 4: We're in session today unpacking our careers as black women

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Speaker 4: in sports media.

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Speaker 1: Athletes like Angel Reese and Shiceri Richardson have so brilliantly

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Speaker 1: led women's sports into the national spotlight, but with this

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Speaker 1: has come lots of negative attention and straight up negligent

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Speaker 1: media coverage of these athletes and their sports. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to hear from black women's sports journalists, both in front

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Speaker 1: of and behind the camera, to explore what's needed to

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Speaker 1: correct some of these biased narratives. Joining me today for

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Speaker 1: this Black Women in Sports Media Roundtable are supervising producer

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Speaker 1: Jasmine Ellis and Emmy Award winning journalist Jamel Hill. Husband

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Speaker 1: has worked on shows such as Sue Bird and Meghan Rapinos,

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Speaker 1: A Touch More Speak Easy for CNN Plus and ESPN's

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Speaker 1: SC six, and Jamel, making her return to the TVG podcast,

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Speaker 1: is a contributing writer for the Atlantic, where she covers

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Speaker 1: the intersection between sports, race, politics, gender and culture. In

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Speaker 1: today's roundtable, we discuss the barriers that exist for black

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Speaker 1: women to enter the sports media space, the importance of

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Speaker 1: cultural competency when covering women's sports, and why we can't

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Speaker 1: just stick to sports when talking about female athletes. If

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Speaker 1: something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share

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Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag TVG in

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Speaker 1: Session or join us in the Sister Circle To talk

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Speaker 1: more about the episode. You can join us at community

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Speaker 1: dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today, Jamal and Jazz,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very excited to chat with you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, for having us.

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Speaker 2: We are excited to be here now we are.

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Speaker 1: This is Jasus's first time. Been happy to have you back, Jamil,

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Speaker 1: so excited to chat with you both. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: you could both get us started by telling me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about what initially drew you to a career

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Speaker 1: in sports media.

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Speaker 4: Well, for me, it was actually my love of newspapers

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Speaker 4: and for the young folks listening, they used to print

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Speaker 4: these things that gave you all the information that was

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Speaker 4: happening in your city.

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Speaker 3: You know, used to pick them up at the end

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Speaker 3: of your driveway.

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Speaker 4: They're called newspapers since everything is so digital now. And

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Speaker 4: I was always like the neighborhood tomboy loved watching sports,

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Speaker 4: love playing sports, and me being interested in what sports

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Speaker 4: teams in my hometown.

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Speaker 3: I'm from Detroit.

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Speaker 4: Originally what they were doing was just a natural extension

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Speaker 4: of that love. But reading newspapers it gave me that

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Speaker 4: first curiosity about journalism. And then when I was in

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Speaker 4: high school, I took a high school journalism class and

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Speaker 4: the rest, as they say, is history.

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Speaker 3: I'm one of those weird nerds.

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Speaker 4: That decided very early in high school that I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be not just a journalist, but I specifically wanted

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Speaker 4: to be a sports journalist. And I realized it was

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Speaker 4: a bit of an uncommon goal. It's not like I

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Speaker 4: knew a lot of sports journalists. I certainly read them

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Speaker 4: in the newspaper, but especially being a young black girl,

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Speaker 4: that was a very odd career path. Considering my other

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Speaker 4: friends that talking about being lawyers and all this other stuff,

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Speaker 4: and they're like, sports journalists wants to be that?

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Speaker 3: But that was indeed me.

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Speaker 4: So it all started from then and it's really the

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Speaker 4: only thing that I've ever done. And I told younger

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Speaker 4: journalists when they talked to me about their career aspirations

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Speaker 4: and asked me about mine, and say, hey, I'm literally

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Speaker 4: like the anomaly in this. Most people changed their mind

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Speaker 4: about what they want to do in their careers four

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Speaker 4: or five, six times. I just so happened to be

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Speaker 4: the one that found the thing that I could do

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Speaker 4: early and it stuck. It probably also helped that I

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Speaker 4: was very bad at math, and while I prospected science.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't real good at that either.

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Speaker 4: So two of those possibilities were already eliminated, which left,

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Speaker 4: of course, a love of writing, a love of language,

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Speaker 4: and most importantly, a love of reading. And so all

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Speaker 4: of those things fed me wanting to do this for

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Speaker 4: the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: What about you, Yeah, I think like Jamelle, early on,

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Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to be a journalist. I did

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Speaker 2: not know or see it possible to be a sports

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Speaker 2: journalist for a long time. So I grew up loving

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Speaker 2: the news, loving TV, and loving sports, and those were

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Speaker 2: just two very separate things for me, and I ultimately

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Speaker 2: decided to pursue journalism. I wanted to be the next

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Speaker 2: Katie Kirk, and I got to college and realized I

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Speaker 2: didn't like being on camera and that decisions were made

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes, and I became a news producer, and

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Speaker 2: I spent the first almost ten years of my career

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Speaker 2: working in local news, working in different cities, covering communities,

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Speaker 2: and when I got to Philadelphia, my hometown, the stories

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Speaker 2: that lit me up the most were about the sports teams,

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Speaker 2: and I had to ask myself, like, why am I

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Speaker 2: only covering news? Why am I not also covering this

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Speaker 2: thing that I'm really passionate about? And a big piece

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Speaker 2: of that was just not seeing myself in the sports

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Speaker 2: space growing up as a little girl who loved football

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Speaker 2: and seeing these shots of the control room during big

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl level sporting events and seeing no one that

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Speaker 2: looked like me. So I just didn't connect that I

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Speaker 2: could be in that room, and it took me a

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Speaker 2: bit of time to realize I could be the first

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Speaker 2: person in that room. And I decided to pursue sports

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Speaker 2: media around twenty fifteen, and I've been in that space

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Speaker 2: ever since.

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Speaker 5: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Other than we have two examples of people deciding very

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Speaker 1: early on that this is what you wanted to do

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Speaker 1: and then pursuing it in whatever way you could. So

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Speaker 1: like both of you, I am sure. I am still

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Speaker 1: coming off the high of the Olympics of kind of

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Speaker 1: multiple days were just being tuned into all these activities.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if there's any particular Paris Olympic moments that

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Speaker 1: kind of sit out for you that you are holding

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Speaker 1: on to.

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Speaker 3: Man, it was so many.

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Speaker 4: What the overall banner story is that women carried this country,

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Speaker 4: I think, and if you want to be even more specific,

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Speaker 4: black life carried this country when it came to the Olympics.

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Speaker 4: Because I think I saw some stat that if you

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Speaker 4: just amassed all the metals that the women want, that

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Speaker 4: would have been enough to be like fifty eleven countries,

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Speaker 4: if I may use the incredible black math of fifty eleven,

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Speaker 4: but I would say probably Simone Bios that really stood

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Speaker 4: out for me. Now, I do have a personal bias.

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Speaker 4: I'm a producer on her docuseries that's currently on Netflix,

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Speaker 4: Simone Rising, so I felt a little more intimately connected

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Speaker 4: to the story beyond just being a sports fan, having

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Speaker 4: had to write for the documentary and helped create the

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Speaker 4: outline for the series. But just in general, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I thought, coming into the Olympics, she was the greatest

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Speaker 4: gymnast ever and there was really no real reason that

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Speaker 4: she had to come to this Olympic. She is considered

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Speaker 4: despite the fact she's not even thirty. She is considered

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Speaker 4: a quote older gymnast, and she had nothing left to prove,

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Speaker 4: and given all of the struggles she had from a

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Speaker 4: mental health perspective at the last Olympics.

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Speaker 3: Simobiles didn't owe us anything.

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Speaker 4: And yet she was still as excellent and as exemplary

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Speaker 4: as we've always found her to be, and I think

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Speaker 4: even more special than her particular performance was seeing how

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Speaker 4: the torch was passed and how now, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: the faces of gymnastics are black faces are women of

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Speaker 4: color just in general, which is a very decided switch

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Speaker 4: that's happened over the course of my lifetime. I grew

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Speaker 4: up watching Mary lou rettin because I'm seven thousand years old,

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Speaker 4: and to see the transformation of the sport and it

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Speaker 4: really becomes something that you've seen little black girls really

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Speaker 4: attach themselves to and drive and become the faces of

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Speaker 4: the sport is something when I first started watching gymnastics,

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Speaker 4: I never thought that I would see. So for me,

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Speaker 4: it was probably the continued excellence of some own biles

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Speaker 4: and the US women's gymnastics team in general.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it's really tough to choose. When I

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Speaker 2: think about again being young watching sports as a kid,

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Speaker 2: the Olympics were part of those early memories. So I

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Speaker 2: love the Olympics. I'm obsessed. My nails were gold like

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Speaker 2: I were all in. I was all in. I was

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Speaker 2: all in. But if I have to pick track and field,

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Speaker 2: I felt like there were so many surprises. I love

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Speaker 2: the stars you don't expect, and for me, one of

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Speaker 2: those was Gabby Thomas, who ended up walking away with

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Speaker 2: three gold medals at the end of track and field competition,

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Speaker 2: and I got introduced to her more watching Sprint on Netflix,

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Speaker 2: which was a great doc about some of the track

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Speaker 2: and field athletes. But I just think the women of

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Speaker 2: track and field, they so quietly just dominate And it

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Speaker 2: was really cool to just see someone who a year, oh,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't that familiar with come into this Olympics and

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Speaker 2: walk away with three gold medals. Like I just I

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Speaker 2: feel like not enough has been said about that for

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Speaker 2: her particular because she's not some own level of household

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Speaker 2: names of athletes, and then seeing Shakrie win silver and

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Speaker 2: get a gold. But I think i'm' have to go

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Speaker 2: with Gabby Thomas just because I like the people you

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Speaker 2: don't know that you're gonna fall in love with and

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Speaker 2: walking away from the Games and like, I'm like a

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Speaker 2: Gabby Thomas stan and yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love that, love that, So I love that. Y'all

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Speaker 1: both have talked about like how the Olympics have been

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Speaker 1: a part of the fabric of sports love for you,

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Speaker 1: and it does feel like typically around the Olympics because

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Speaker 1: people are coming from all over the world. There is

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Speaker 1: a different level of like cultural competency. It feels applied

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Speaker 1: to when they are writing about and talking about the athletes.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what we could take from those kinds of

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Speaker 1: lessons the way we treat the Olympics and kind of

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Speaker 1: apply to sports more globally, like when it's not Olympic time.

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Speaker 1: Any thoughts you all have there, I.

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Speaker 3: Think you hit on something important.

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Speaker 4: Is that Jazzman talked about how much more familiar she

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Speaker 4: became with Gabby's story, and that is part of one

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Speaker 4: of the holes, if you will, of the Olympics, is

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Speaker 4: that typically for the American audience because Track and Field,

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Speaker 4: while it is on American television, it certainly is not

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Speaker 4: dominant in the sports landscape the way that other things are.

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Speaker 3: Clearly, you know, the NFL.

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Speaker 4: Is king, and then you have the NBA and baseball

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Speaker 4: and all these other things. And I know it's a

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Speaker 4: constant grab for American attention, but I think it does show,

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Speaker 4: at least in our sports media, that people do hunger

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Speaker 4: to be introduced to people. Everybody doesn't have to be

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Speaker 4: a prepackaged, already made star. That sometimes people want to

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Speaker 4: know great stories and great people. And so it's constantly

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Speaker 4: a lesson for sports media, but more specifically, the lesson

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Speaker 4: for sports media is that they have got to stop

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Speaker 4: with their very short sighted, underinvested coverage in women's sports.

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Speaker 4: In particular, I've covered two Olympics. I covered the Olympics

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Speaker 4: in Greece and four I covered the Winter Olympics in Italy,

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Speaker 4: and it's like we keep having the same conversation throughout

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Speaker 4: my career, like, oh, we should cover more women's sports.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we should cover more women's sports.

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Speaker 4: We're past that conversation, and obviously we've seen with the

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Speaker 4: rise of the WNBA. Certainly the women's Olympic basketball team

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Speaker 4: again continued their dominance. But it just goes to show

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Speaker 4: that it shouldn't take a marquee worldwide global sporting event

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Speaker 4: every four years to get media outlets to invest in

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Speaker 4: covering women's sports. The table of us learning and knowing

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Speaker 4: and really amplifying these athletes should have been set before

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Speaker 4: the Olympics. And while yeah, certainly somebody like Shakiri or

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Speaker 4: Simone they enjoy a different level of media attention, but

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Speaker 4: there were so many stories that we didn't know and

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Speaker 4: I couldn't help but think, wow, if only we actually

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Speaker 4: invested in covering women's sports the way that we have

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Speaker 4: talked about doing, then this would have been in an

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Speaker 4: even bigger Olympic experience. And I'm hoping with the Olympics

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Speaker 4: being in Los Angeles in twenty twenty eight, that we

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Speaker 4: will see a more consistent effort to cover, highlight, amplify

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Speaker 4: women's sports because the audience is there, the audience has

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Speaker 4: been there, and the media for a long time has

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Speaker 4: played this game of chicken or egg. Oh, we'll cover

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Speaker 4: it if they get big. Then they get big, they

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Speaker 4: cover it, and then they're back off it again. So

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Speaker 4: it's like every single time women's sports feels like it's

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Speaker 4: starting over when there's a new face that people latch onto.

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Speaker 4: So I'm hoping that something on that end was learned

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Speaker 4: from this Olympics because the Olympics are in Los Angeles

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 2: Agreeing with Jamelle, the media has to do a better

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Speaker 2: job of being curious and not trying to put people

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Speaker 2: in existing boxes and going to the story and seeking

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Speaker 2: out the story. I think the last five years there's

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Speaker 2: been more of that, more curiosity, more wanting to understand

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Speaker 2: the choices that specifically black female athletes are making. And Okay,

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Speaker 2: why is my Moore retiring? What's the story here?

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Speaker 5: Wow?

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Speaker 2: This is crazy, you know, Like when you actually start

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Speaker 2: to pull back the layers of what's going on in

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Speaker 2: these women's lives and who they are as people, there's

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Speaker 2: so much there. And I think as sports fans we

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Speaker 2: also have to bring that to everything we watch and

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Speaker 2: be curious and not fall into the same traps. That

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Speaker 2: can sometimes be really easy because the media might lean

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Speaker 2: into certain tropes about what you need to look like,

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Speaker 2: or how an athlete has to be built, or the

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Speaker 2: way things have always been done. So I just think

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Speaker 2: media and fans if we just sit in our curiosity.

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Speaker 2: For me, going back to Gabby Thomas, I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this woman went to Harvard. You have my attention, Like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on here? I want to know more. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: I would think she has a lot of options in

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Speaker 2: the types of life she wants to lead for herself,

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Speaker 2: and she's choosing track and field. So I'm going to

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Speaker 2: pay attention to this choice that she's made, and i

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Speaker 2: want to see how well she can compete. So I'm

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Speaker 2: also hopeful that la literally in our backyard will give

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Speaker 2: us more time in the American sports media to really

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Speaker 2: sit with our stories and dig deeper on who people

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Speaker 2: are and what helped them get to where they are

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Speaker 2: as athletes.

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Speaker 4: And if I can piggyback off what Jasmine said the

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Speaker 4: other thing, and I think, especially in the last year,

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Speaker 4: this has been very obvious.

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Speaker 3: I won't say we.

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Speaker 4: Because I know, and I know Jasmine knows, but some

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Speaker 4: of my fellow media members need to learn how to

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Speaker 4: talk about women's sports because the one thing that bothers

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Speaker 4: me so much, and I'm gonna be real a lot

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Speaker 4: of it as men, okay, is that they are able

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Speaker 4: to come into a women's sports space and brag about

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Speaker 4: how much they don't know, and that be like, well,

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Speaker 4: I've never heard of this person, even though it's like

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Speaker 4: they're literally the best at what they do. How have

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Speaker 4: you never heard of this person? And if you have,

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Speaker 4: how are you so ignorantly confident to say that to

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Speaker 4: an audience you're supposed to be serving because part of

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Speaker 4: our job as journalists is to things in the context,

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Speaker 4: and not that everybody who has a MICA as a journalist,

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Speaker 4: because that is clearly not true. But if you are

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Speaker 4: someone who has an audience, it is your responsibility to

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Speaker 4: come to the conversation with a base level of information

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Speaker 4: or informed in some way. And that's something that female

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Speaker 4: journalists and women in sports media don't get to do.

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Speaker 4: I can never sit on anybody's NFL set and say, oh,

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Speaker 4: this Josh Allen got Man, never heard of him, but

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Speaker 4: he seems great. But they do that all the time

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Speaker 4: with women's sports, and so I think the media needs

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Speaker 4: to not only cover women's sports better, they need to

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Speaker 4: grow up in how they cover women's sports as well.

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Speaker 1: Jamel, when you were here before, and we've had countless

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Speaker 1: conversations on the podcast just about how many women have

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Speaker 1: been kept out of sports right because the assumption was that, like,

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Speaker 1: could you really know football? And like how big of

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Speaker 1: a fan can you really be? When it's clear that

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Speaker 1: you and your colleagues go above and beyond to be

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Speaker 1: well versed, and it feels like just regular sexism that

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Speaker 1: like men can very easily enter women's sports spaces even

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Speaker 1: though they do not understand what's going on, Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: you may understand the mechanics of what's happening in basketball,

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Speaker 1: but they are not thoroughly invested in like the lives

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Speaker 1: and like the stories of the athletes in the ways

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Speaker 1: that you all have to be when you were reporting

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Speaker 1: on something like football or men's basketball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, or they don't just understand the culture.

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Speaker 4: That's why that whole just complete conversation about WNBA players

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Speaker 4: being jealous, just literally there was one conversation.

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Speaker 3: That set me on fire every time it happened.

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Speaker 4: It was that because they didn't understand the culture of

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Speaker 4: the league that they were very loudly talking about every

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Speaker 4: single day. And when I first came a professional journalist

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Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety seven, I spent the first two years

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Speaker 4: covering primarily women's sports, and one of those was the WNBA,

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Speaker 4: so I actually covered the league and covered a team,

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Speaker 4: So there was a base level of institutional knowledge that

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Speaker 4: I had, and I covered women's basketball and the WNBA

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Speaker 4: on and off throughout my career, but just never as

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Speaker 4: intensity as I did at the start.

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Speaker 3: There's a base.

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Speaker 4: Level of institutional knowledge that you need to know about

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Speaker 4: the things that you're talking about. And it is just

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Speaker 4: very bothersome to me that it's not required of men

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Speaker 4: to do that.

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Speaker 3: They're just allowed to be ignorant.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I had the feeling and hearing some of

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Speaker 4: these conversations that have taken place around the WNBA and

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Speaker 4: Caitlin Clark and the players kind of how I feel

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Speaker 4: when I turned into news networks and they talk about

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Speaker 4: black people and everybody on the panel is white.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sorry, excuse me, I'm not, Oh, okay.

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Speaker 4: These are the experts got it, and so it was

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Speaker 4: very similar, and they didn't seem particularly interested in learning

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Speaker 4: that institutional knowledge. So I'm hoping that when twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: eight comes around, these lessons won't be quite as painful,

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Speaker 4: but they have time to study up, as Jasmine said,

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Speaker 4: because there's going to be no excuse to have that

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Speaker 4: kind of lack of depth when you're before an American audience.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say a personal story? I realize now

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Speaker 2: I ended up working in local journalism before transitioning to sports.

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Speaker 2: But I tried to get sports internships in college and

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Speaker 2: I was met with a binder that I had to

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Speaker 2: photo id male athletes from every sport, And you know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know golf, I didn't know who had won

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Speaker 2: the PGA the year before, and I didn't get that

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Speaker 2: internship at a network that I won't call out. And

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Speaker 2: then I can't tell you how many sports knowledge tests

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Speaker 2: I've had to have starting out to get my foot

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Speaker 2: in the door at different networks or interviews that I've

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Speaker 2: had to sit down for, and the first question is

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Speaker 2: so you like sports? Like I'm here interviewing HR has

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Speaker 2: already got me this far. Why are we starting with

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Speaker 2: questioning whether I like sports? Or why do I like sports?

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Speaker 2: So maybe for men we should bring back some sports

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Speaker 2: knowledge tests or I like that.

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Speaker 4: And I'm so glad you brought that up because I

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Speaker 4: had totally forgot about that. I had to take one

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Speaker 4: too for an internship as well.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think there were any women in the

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Speaker 2: photo book. I don't remember any female athletes.

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Speaker 3: I don't either, there was none. There was no women

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Speaker 3: in the photo book.

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Speaker 4: It was basically like learning about like you said, they

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Speaker 4: asked you, like, all right, who has the most home

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Speaker 4: runs in Major League Baseball history?

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Speaker 3: Like all of the stuff that you were required to know.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that that's not important, but I

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Speaker 4: did think it was strange.

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Speaker 3: That I had to do that.

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Speaker 4: And trust me, when I was a beat writer on

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Speaker 4: the Grind, the guys that I covered, they've had a

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Speaker 4: certain knowledge and access to sports that women have not

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Speaker 4: necessarily had throughout our lifetimes. But it would amaze me

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Speaker 4: often how people just assume that, just because they're men,

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Speaker 4: that they knew certain things. And then in private conversations,

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, oh, so they're just as dumb

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Speaker 4: as like some of these other people out here when

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Speaker 4: it comes to sports. But there's an assumption, Oh, he's

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Speaker 4: a dude, he clearly understands everything about football.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, he does not. I can tell you that

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Speaker 3: is not the case.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, but first a

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Speaker 1: quick snippet of what's coming next week on TVG.

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Speaker 5: I remember someone said that you have to get unbusy

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Speaker 5: to get busy, like the more relaxed you are. We

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Speaker 5: saw what happened with the pandemic. More people were getting

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Speaker 5: pregnant one much to do. So, like you like on vacations,

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Speaker 5: your lobido may be higher.

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Speaker 3: So of course you can't go on a vacation every

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Speaker 3: two weeks. But what can you do to just slow down?

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Speaker 5: I mean, you really can't even feel your sex strive

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Speaker 5: if you're stressed out and you're always running around. So

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Speaker 5: just slowing down more to be in tune to your desires.

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Speaker 5: I know, for me, if I'm too busy, I can

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Speaker 5: forget to eat, right. It's not that I don't get hungry,

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Speaker 5: I just couldn't even pay attention to the fact that

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Speaker 5: I need to eat. And so I think it's a

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Speaker 5: similar thing with sex. If you're always on the go,

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Speaker 5: always working, always checking your emails, your body just is

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Speaker 5: not going to be prioritizing pleasure.

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Speaker 1: So j Justleen, I wonder if you could talk to

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Speaker 1: us about how some idea or something that we are

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Speaker 1: curious about, as you mentioned, how does that get from

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Speaker 1: like just an idea to an actual something that we

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Speaker 1: see on our TV screen or on a streaming platform,

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Speaker 1: Like what is your role as the producer in shaping

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Speaker 1: what we eventually see?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the first step of that is pitching

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Speaker 2: to your talent like Jamelle, who I've had the pleasure

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Speaker 2: of working with a couple of times and coming to

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Speaker 2: her and so let's say we're covering the Olympics, and

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Speaker 2: let's talk about Simone in this way, And it really

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Speaker 2: starts with us having a dialogue about Okay, everyone's going

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Speaker 2: to have this conversation about her, but the conversation we

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Speaker 2: want to have is what And it's really just thinking

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Speaker 2: about For me, I go back to I always think

440
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: about my mom watching My mom's a sports fan, what's

441
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 2: the thing that is going to hook her and make

442
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: her feel engaged? Or my friends who are sports fans,

443
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: so always thinking about who is this for? And I'm

444
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: always thinking about all those examples are black women. So

445
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about my friends who are sports fans and

446
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 2: like creating a conversation that interests and engages them, And

447
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: isn't just the headline, the surf level, the checking the

448
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 2: box on a topic. It's really getting into the weeds

449
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: of something that looking at the Olympics was and doing

450
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: that in a way knowing the way the internet works

451
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: that it could be online forever as a way to

452
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 2: archive and commemorate these moments in sports. And if working

453
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: with someone like Jamel, having a black woman have that conversation,

454
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 2: how can we do that in a really smart, engaging,

455
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 2: entertaining way. So it's a long way of saying it

456
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: all starts with conversation and thinking about who are you

457
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 2: having that conversation for, and always keeping that center as

458
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: you continue to produce, you want to deliver something for

459
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: your core audience.

460
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: And Jimmy, you've already kind of referenced this piece, but

461
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: pretty early in this current WNBA season, you wrote a

462
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: piece called the One Downside of Gender Equality in Sports

463
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: where you reference this conversation that obviously had you very heated,

464
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: and so I'm curious to hear you talk more and

465
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: you've already shared some, but to talk more about how

466
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: the detachment that some of the people who are covering

467
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: women's sports has, how does that impact the integrity and

468
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: the quality of the coverage that we actually get, and

469
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: what do they need to do better.

470
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: I think one thing that was very beneficial for me

471
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 4: was starting my journalism journey as a newspaper reporter. And

472
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 4: when I came out of college, I mean, you picked one.

473
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: Or two paths.

474
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 4: Either you were a print or you were broadcast right,

475
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 4: and now you're pretty much the utility player journalists where

476
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 4: you have to be able to write and produce and

477
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 4: be on air and podcasts and so many different types

478
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 4: of skill sets.

479
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: But for me it was newspapers and so covering the

480
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: team and covering a beat.

481
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 4: That means that when you write something in the newspaper

482
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 4: the very next day, you usually have to face the

483
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 4: people you wrote about, and I think that is a

484
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 4: way that keeps you responsible as a journalist. It puts

485
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 4: you in the position where you have to make sure

486
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 4: what you have written and what you have said is

487
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 4: tight because these people who may not like what you

488
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 4: have written and said are going to force you to

489
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: defend that. And So because of those personal interactions with athletes,

490
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: I think it taught me that I can be critical

491
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 4: and respectful at the same time, right, And so when

492
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 4: I had my television career, I always kept that in mind, like, eventually,

493
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 4: I may see this person, okay, and what's the conversation

494
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 4: going to be like if I get a little too

495
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: reckless with my mouth talking about them on TV? And

496
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 4: so what has really dramatically changed is that I watch

497
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 4: sports television now and a lot of people in the

498
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 4: media have no problem taking off on somebody in a

499
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 4: very personal way. It's one thing to give you criticize

500
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 4: what they do because that's just open to criticism, that's

501
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: part of being a professional athlete. But when they start

502
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: taking it real personal and then next thing you know

503
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 4: is some escalating fight back and forth between a media

504
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 4: person and the athlete. That's when I see how that

505
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 4: can get lost. Is the longer you're on TV and

506
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 4: the more you're in the studio, the further you are

507
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 4: removed from the people that you're talking about. And because

508
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 4: of that gap and that distance, that can lead to

509
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 4: sometimes some of these conversations that frankly are really low

510
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 4: hanging fruit that don't serve anybody, and certainly don't serve

511
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 4: the audience. And so when I wrote that piece, I

512
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 4: wrote it from a place of somebody who talks to

513
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 4: WNBA players, who again has the institutional knowledge of having

514
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 4: covered the league, who understands the culture that is going

515
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: on there, and also the additional layer of what it's

516
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 4: like to be a black woman in sports, and especially

517
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: given the way that this league is dominated by black

518
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: women and some of the narratives and tropes about black women,

519
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: understanding how that part of this was playing into how

520
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: people were absorbing this moment where the WNBA is experienced

521
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 4: a super nova of popularity centered on an athlete that,

522
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 4: through no fault of her own, and kate Ln Clark,

523
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 4: has become quite polarizing, and however, was bringing their own

524
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 4: things to the table and not understanding that the people

525
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: who are most going to pay the price for how

526
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 4: Caitlin Clark turned into a culture war were black women,

527
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 4: and so being a part of those conversations, being able

528
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: to frame those conversations is the reason why I wanted

529
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: to be a journalist. Certainly, when I first started off

530
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 4: in my career, it was about the results. It was

531
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 4: about oh, covering cool sporting event X, it was about oh,

532
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 4: seeing this championship game, seeing this person's athletic legacy being

533
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 4: built right before my very eyes. Historically, and those are

534
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 4: all great things, but as sports has become even more

535
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 4: deeply embedded into our culture and frankly been at the

536
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 4: center of some very interesting culture wars, to me, writing

537
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 4: about the messy intersections of sports, race, gender, politics, and

538
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 4: culture is the place to be in our current and

539
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: foreseeable sports conversations, to be honest, and so for me,

540
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 4: like that's the important component of this is at the

541
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 4: end of the day, twenty years from now, thirty years

542
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 4: from now, forty years from now, or once i'm dust,

543
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 4: I want people to be able to look back at

544
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: my work and say, I understand what was happening in

545
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 4: this moment. And so there's a certain responsibility that we

546
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 4: have to take as journalists that we're framing moments that

547
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: people will look back on trying to understand and so

548
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 4: what are we saying about the framing And it's our

549
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 4: responsibility to get that framing as right as we possibly can.

550
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: So I feel like I only really see black women

551
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: take care in that kind of way, especially when they

552
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: are covering black women athletes, right, And so I'm wondering, like,

553
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: is this something that you've developed just because this is

554
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: your particular lens or is this something that journalists are

555
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: really supposed to be doing to pay attention? And I'm

556
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: thinking of it, of course as a psychologist. This is

557
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: a mental health podcast, thinking about the mental health impact

558
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: that some of the stories I've seen can have on

559
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: some of these women, especially because they're so young, right,

560
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: I think we look at them and like they're superhuman

561
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: in lots of ways and very athletic, and so I

562
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: think it's lost how young and like the backgrounds that

563
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: they sometimes come from, that these stories could impact their

564
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: mental health and I think in some negative ways.

565
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it is.

566
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 4: A slippery slope as a journalist because part of the

567
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: nature of what you do is to disrupt. That disruption

568
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 4: can have a myriad of effects, and you are supposed

569
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: to be a truth seeker and a truth teller, and

570
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: you constantly have to weigh how you're exposing or how

571
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 4: you're presenting that truth. And so like Simon Biles, I

572
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: think during the Olympics, she said, how about not asking

573
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 4: athletes as soon.

574
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: As they've won? So what's next?

575
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 4: Right, She's barely had to have to process what just happened,

576
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 4: and we're like, so not what.

577
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: I understand why she said that, and what she said

578
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: was totally reasonable. The problem is you don't get to talk.

579
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 4: To Simone Biles every other day. I wish I could

580
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: call her and say, like three weeks later, Ao, Simone,

581
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: what you got going on next? But we don't get

582
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 4: to do that because Simone is not available.

583
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: So there are these things you try to be mindful of.

584
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 4: And I have learned athletes, these are real people, and

585
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 4: I don't want to thinkify them. But at the same time,

586
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 4: I think there has to be some room for me

587
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 4: to do my job, and sometimes part of that job

588
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 4: it comes with criticism.

589
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: But you can do that in a way.

590
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 4: That is both earnest and truthful without necessarily being harmful

591
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 4: and disrespectful. So I feel like that there is room

592
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 4: for that because yeah, I mean, especially now in this

593
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 4: current climate of sports. Listen, when I first started covering sports,

594
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 4: nobody talked about mental health.

595
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: Nobody. It was if an athlete didn't perform, they're soft.

596
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: I mean, you could take off on athletes and ways.

597
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 4: That were considered to be just part of the culture

598
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: and how you talked about sports. But now as they

599
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: have become more vulnerable and they have become more comfortable

600
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: exposing the fact that, like, hey, I don't have everything together.

601
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: You guys might see all these things I've accomplished, you

602
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 4: might see me leading this great, flashy, rich lifestyle, but

603
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 4: deep down, I'm in trouble. I think as they have

604
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 4: let us in more on what it's like for them,

605
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: I think it has informed how we report on them

606
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 4: and how we talk about them. And so it's something

607
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: that we now keep in mind, even though it happens

608
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: from time to time, the culture of like calling an

609
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: athlete soft and all these other things, I don't think

610
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: it's as bad from a journalistic standpoint as it used

611
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 4: to be, because I think we do realize that a

612
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: lot of these players, especially if they have the success

613
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 4: at a young age that you were talking about, you know,

614
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: like Sha Carrie Richardson is a perfect example. She went

615
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: through a lot, and He's why her even being in

616
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 4: this Olympics was just a reward in itself, and seeing

617
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: her go through that journey and go through it so publicly,

618
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 4: it informs how you speak about her.

619
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: At least it does for me.

620
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 4: I can't speak for everybody, So I think as we

621
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 4: continue to have these more really candid conversations about mental

622
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 4: health and sports, it helps make us better as journalists.

623
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 4: It's kind of like comedians learning that the jokes they

624
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: told old in nineteen eighty eight don't fly as well

625
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four. It's like part of your job

626
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 4: is to actually evolve with the thing that you're talking

627
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 4: about and covering.

628
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: Very good points more from our conversation after the break

629
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: and Jess when of course, as the producer behind a

630
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: lot of these shows, right like, that's a lot of

631
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: what you are doing is making sure that the talent

632
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: is prepared and so you know, one of your newest

633
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: ventures is working with Sue Bird and Meghan Rappino on

634
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: their new show A Touch More. Can you talk about

635
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: what kinds of conversations you're having with them and maybe

636
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: even other holes and executives about like how to cover

637
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: these stories in a culturally sensitive and responsive way, but

638
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: also in a more holistic way.

639
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I haven't had an experience ever like

640
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: working with Meghan and Sue because they are women who

641
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: have been the story. There are also women who are

642
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: very intentional about representing and including all types of women.

643
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 2: So the way that they approach a conversation is just

644
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: unlike anything I've experienced because a lot of the work

645
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: that you might have to do with someone who's not

646
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: an athlete, who hasn't had high pressure playing in a

647
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: championship or an Olympics, they have it. So there's not

648
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: a lot that I have to prepare them for In

649
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: terms of that perspective. It's more so just bringing awareness

650
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: of conversations that are happening and encouraging them to join

651
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: that conversation and add that perspective. But I think with

652
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: all hosts that I'm working with, I'm always just trying

653
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: to pull back a curtain for their fans on how

654
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: they're thinking. I think Jamelle might agree with this is

655
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: sometimes she doesn't realize she has an opinion that people

656
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: would find interesting until I'm like, that's really interesting, Like

657
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: you should say that out loud on TV, or she's

658
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: just being Jammelle and has an idea and thinks it's

659
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: funny and like, you know, that's just some thing for

660
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: our production meeting. But I'm like, no, that's a topic

661
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 2: for the show. So it's really just kind of like

662
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: I'm playing the part of the fan at home watching

663
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: or listening to a show and guiding hosts to have

664
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: the conversations that their fans would want to hear. That's

665
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: why I love my job. I just get to be

666
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: a fan and ask for really cool, interesting conversations. And

667
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: that's my pitch for more people, more black women, to

668
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: do this work of producing, because that's one of the

669
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: only ways that we're going to get the stories we

670
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: care about if we're in the room asking for those

671
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: stories to be told, asking for people. You have to

672
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: talk about this. My group chat is on fire about

673
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: this conversation. We have to talk about it on our show.

674
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: So it's really the best job. Second maybe to Jim,

675
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean I think some days you

676
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: might have me be Jazz no hair and makeup.

677
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit more about

678
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: the show that you both worked on, which was SC

679
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: six and I would love to hear a little bit

680
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: more about how that came together and what it was

681
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: like to collaborate with one another. We know, when you're

682
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: talking about black women athletes in particular, like you can't

683
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: really just stick to sports. There is this context that

684
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: these stories exist within. So tell us a little bit

685
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: about how that show came to beg and what was

686
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: it like to collaborate there.

687
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 4: Well before the Jasmin worked together on the SC six,

688
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: Jasmine was an unofficial producer of my previous show, His

689
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 4: and Hers with my former co host, Michael Smith, and

690
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 4: so Jasmin will always be hitting me up or walking

691
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 4: past our cubicle like, oh, when y'all did that, that

692
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 4: was really great, or like, are y'all going to do

693
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 4: this or that or whatever. So she was already producing

694
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 4: us without having the official title.

695
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: Before that ever happened.

696
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: Because I like to think when we did television, we

697
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 4: did it in a way that was unapologetically black, sometimes

698
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: so black that I was like, they really let us

699
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: do that on television, no doubt. And so when it

700
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 4: came time for us to create the team of the

701
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 4: SC six, Jasmine was already a senior Sports Center producer

702
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 4: at the time working on the six PM Sports Center

703
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 4: with the previous talent, and just given the fact that

704
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 4: we already had a relationship outside of the show, and

705
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 4: because of her being our unofficial producer on His and Hers,

706
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 4: it was just like such a natural fit. And this

707
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 4: is no disrespect to the producers that I've worked with,

708
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 4: because I've worked with some good ones, work with some

709
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 4: bad ones too, but work with some good ones.

710
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 3: It is a different feeling as a black talent when you.

711
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 4: Have a lead black producer that you don't have to

712
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 4: explain yourself to all the time or explain the whole

713
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: two Americas, like.

714
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know the rest of y'all talking about it

715
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: this way.

716
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 4: But this is how black people are talking about it,

717
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: and this is why that conversation, why this story, why

718
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 4: the way we frame this story deserves to be framed

719
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 4: that way.

720
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 3: And so that part for me was just a huge relief.

721
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 4: Because it was just like, Okay, finally I have a

722
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 4: producer that kind of it's me. That doesn't mean that

723
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 4: you're gonna agree on everything, because sometimes you may see

724
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 4: things different way, but there's a base level of understanding

725
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: and like mindedness that made the process of putting together

726
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 4: the SC six so much easier. Just to give a

727
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 4: small example, I mean, I think Jazmine would agree with

728
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 4: me on this. One of the greatest things we ever

729
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 4: pulled off was making the Sports Center theme song, the

730
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 4: Different World intro all right, and then we got the

731
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 4: original cahas. The only people who were missing, I think

732
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: were Kadeem Harnessing and Jazzmin God, but that's because they

733
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 4: were actually filming something together at the time.

734
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 3: But we had everybody else.

735
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 4: We had Rong, we had we had everybody simbad, we

736
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: had everybody right, and we used ESPN talent as well,

737
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 4: And I don't think we had another producer who didn't

738
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: get the cultural significance of that, and the cultural significance

739
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 4: of that being on Sports Center never would have got it.

740
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: It never would have got done.

741
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: And so that was part of the synergy of our

742
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 4: working relationship is that Jasmine was always down to try

743
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 4: something new or try something different or us to already

744
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 4: amplify the cultural connection that we already had and put

745
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 4: that on a mainstream platform, legacy brand like Sports Center,

746
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 4: And so it made the working experience really remarkable. And

747
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 4: I realized after the fact I knew it during but

748
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 4: I think it was really more clear after the fact

749
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 4: just how rare that is at the network television level like.

750
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: ESPN, Like you're just not going to get that.

751
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 4: So that's part of how we fostered such a good

752
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 4: working relationship that coincided obviously with the friendship as well.

753
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure that both of you are also paying attention

754
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: to just the media landscape right now. We know that

755
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: every day it feels like there's another announcement about layoffs

756
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: and media spaces. What kinds of things would you be

757
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: able to share with maybe other colleagues or people who

758
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: are interested in the field about like how to keep

759
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: your confidence in a sports media landscape.

760
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: I have had to go on a journey of preserving

761
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: my confidence the last couple of years. I had a

762
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: daughter two years ago and just coming out of maternity leave,

763
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: I really struggled to find my space back in sports media,

764
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, in the wake of everything that was changing,

765
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: and so for me, one of the biggest parts of

766
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: that was leaning on my network, whether it was people

767
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: I worked with before, like Jamel, or people who were

768
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: just peers in the industry who I admire respect. You know,

769
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 2: if I'm interviewing for a gig and just texting my

770
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: friends to like gass me up about something or needing

771
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 2: to just talk through an idea or a topic. I've

772
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: dealt with layoffs, I've dealt with looking for work or

773
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: not getting the job, but just always coming back to

774
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: the people who can remind you who you are, what

775
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: you've done, what you can do is just hugely important

776
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: because the networks won't do that. The network executives will

777
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: not do that. They will make you feel replaceable, and

778
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 2: you have to go back to the people who you've

779
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: worked with, who you can vouch for your work, or

780
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: the people who have seen and enjoyed your work. And

781
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: then just talking to yourself, gassing yourself up like a

782
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: ray on, insecure in the mirror, in the mirror, but yeah,

783
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: because every day you're going to wake up, something's going

784
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: to be on Hollywood Reporter, somebody's going to be cutting something.

785
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: You just have to stay confident and the type of

786
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: person you are, the type of work you want to do,

787
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: and don't waver from that in the noise of all

788
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 2: of the uncertainty in this business.

789
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 3: Then you also got to be able to pivot.

790
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 4: Twenty twenty three was professionally one of my more volatile years,

791
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: if not maybe the most volatile year that I've ever had.

792
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 4: I left a major company like Spotify and the podcast industry,

793
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 4: as I'm sure you know that your joy drastically changed

794
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: from when I first got in it in twenty nine eighteen.

795
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 4: And you know, coinciding I live in LA with the

796
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 4: strike that was happening in Hollywood is like that strike

797
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 4: trickled down to basically everything, So there was this huge

798
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 4: amount of fear and retraction that was happening across all

799
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 4: media landscapes. Really, I mean, I had to do some

800
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 4: career soul searching, not in the sense of like me

801
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 4: not wanting to do this. I knew I still wanted

802
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 4: to do this. I knew there still was a place

803
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: for me to do this, but what that would look like.

804
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: I did not have an idea. And one thing that

805
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 4: I have learned since leaving ESPN at twenty eighteen is

806
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,959
Speaker 4: you really have to stay nimble, and I've been able

807
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 4: to do that in terms of understanding the root of

808
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: what I do and what I'm good at is storytelling, interviewing,

809
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 4: building trust with sources, like the fundamental journalism things I'm

810
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 4: good at that is never going to change, right, So

811
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 4: I tell this to younger journalists all the time, is

812
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 4: that the basics of the job haven't changed since the

813
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 4: Stone Tablet. Like literally, people are going to need information,

814
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 4: They're going to need competent people to do tell them

815
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 4: and gather this information. That is always going to be

816
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 4: the case. The only thing that's really changing constantly and

817
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: rapidly is the method. Again, stone tablet yesterday, Today it's TikTok,

818
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: it's threads, it's all these other different forms YouTube.

819
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: That's what it is today.

820
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 4: That's just method though, And so me and Ja we're

821
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 4: more or less sort of independent contractors with mercenaries, so

822
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 4: we're working for multiple different outlets, and even though part

823
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 4: of that can be scary, it also has given me

824
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: the most peace I've had in my career because everybody

825
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 4: I choose to work with now are people I want

826
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 4: to work with, not people I have to work with,

827
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 4: and that makes a very big difference with how I

828
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 4: approach the job. So even when I hit those potholes

829
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 4: or that volatility, being able to lean into the autonomy

830
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: of what I'm doing is helpful and also it teaches you,

831
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: in this phase in my career, how to take bigger

832
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: swings or bigger bets on myself because I came up

833
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 4: through legacy media and worked for a very true d'itional

834
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 4: corporations and companies.

835
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: That was something I.

836
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 4: Didn't really understand until I left ESPN, and I had

837
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 4: to think about it one day, like why would I

838
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 4: work harder for ESPN than I will for myself?

839
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: That probably isn't going to happen.

840
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 4: And so a lot of times what convinces us not

841
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 4: to do things is because we're worried about certain fears.

842
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: Understanding that most of us, especially black women, have outperformed

843
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 4: at every job we have ever been on and that

844
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 4: is not going to change. So I had to really

845
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 4: lean into being my own best advocate and really lean

846
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 4: into betting on myself. So that would be my advice

847
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 4: to the young people who still want to do that,

848
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: is like, you got to be okay with taking some

849
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 4: big swings, and even if you miss, I still think

850
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: it's going to work out for you because you're either

851
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 4: going to learn something or it's going to bring you

852
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 4: to another place that's closer to the thing that you

853
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 4: want to do. The business is volatile. I've been hearing

854
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 4: this for nearly thirty years I've been in this business.

855
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 3: It's always been volatile.

856
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 4: That part is also not going to change if you

857
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 4: really want to do this work. And so what I

858
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 4: would just say is just stay the course and continue

859
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 4: to get better. Invest in being the best version of

860
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 4: whatever journalists you want to become, and that's going to

861
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 4: always pay off. The other things will fall into place.

862
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: They'll take care of themselves when that preparation meets opportunity

863
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 4: moment happens. You want to make sure that you are

864
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: at the top of your game when it does. Love that.

865
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: So what suggestions do y'all have for us for who

866
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: to be paying attention to in terms of really good

867
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: women's sports coverage right now? So I love the stuff

868
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: that they're doing at a touch more Jamelle, of course

869
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: you're always a favorite, But who else do you want

870
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: to put on the radar that's doing really good sports coverage.

871
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: One of our former colleagues, Tarika Foster Brasby, she's been

872
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 4: covering women's basketball for a while and she is one

873
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 4: of the best voices, best media personalities when it comes

874
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 4: to that.

875
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 3: There are certain outlets I think that do really well.

876
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 4: The athletic is something like I read, you know, pretty constantly.

877
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 4: I think now I sort of pay attention to the

878
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 4: people who have been doing the work for a long

879
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: time who just haven't gotten the boost and the amplification

880
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 4: to do that work.

881
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: Aerial Chambers is.

882
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 4: Another one who is like a really good writer and

883
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 4: emerging young journalists voice. When it comes to again, women's basketball,

884
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: I would say women's sports just in general, So at

885
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 4: this point what people should do, especially as there are

886
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 4: some of these women's sports that they're learning about and

887
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 4: still in that sort of let me educate and bring

888
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 4: myself up to speed, pay more attention to the people

889
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 4: who've been covering it a long time, particularly when it

890
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: was no there was no benefit in doing it. Those

891
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 4: are the people who are going to be covering the lead,

892
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 4: the teams, the players, the sport in the right way

893
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 4: because they not only have the institutional knowledge, they did

894
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 4: it at a time where it wasn't particularly sexy, and

895
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 4: so they understand and the way that they report is

896
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 4: much more informed than a lot of the media who

897
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 4: just parachuting cover was hot at the moment and then

898
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 4: they out again. So in general, I would approach it

899
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 4: as finding the people who have just done it and

900
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: been there and grind it.

901
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree along those lines. Lachina Robinson, I fo

902
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: thank you China.

903
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: You yes, I.

904
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 2: Don't know a conversation I've had with her that hasn't

905
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: been about women's basketball since I met her. It's like

906
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: oozes from her pores. And she's a great follow on

907
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: social media. Monica mc nutt is just a talent and

908
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: star at ESPN and she covers it all but just

909
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 2: her perspective on women's basketball in particular. And then Calie

910
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: lost in Freeman. She's now at the Las Vegas Review

911
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 2: Journal covering the Aces, and she's just really bright reporter

912
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: there and I'm excited to just see what she covers

913
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: as the season winds down. And I just got to

914
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: reiterate a touch more Megan and Sue just plug the

915
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: home team. You mentioned them earlier, But I'm excited. It's

916
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: really cool to work on a show where you see

917
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: an audience that really respects the sports that women play.

918
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: And I'm excited to like create content for an audience

919
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: that just respects us so which feels like the bare minimum,

920
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: but I know your audience is going to fall into

921
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: that bucket as well of just being able to create

922
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: a community for ourselves as women's sports fans and supporters.

923
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: And I know the sky's the limit. Like just the

924
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: growth we've seen in the past year separate of Caitlin

925
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: and Angel, Like, there's just been so much happening. I'm

926
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: excited for what next year looks like as well. And

927
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight, as we mentioned with the Olympics.

928
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mentioned two more people I just thought of, Wow,

929
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 4: Jasmine was talking Lindsey d Arcangelo and I hope I'm

930
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 4: saying her name right, but I follow her on Twitter.

931
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 4: She's a fantastic women's sports writer, m a vocal who

932
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 4: has been writing about women's basketball.

933
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: Forever at ESPN. She is great.

934
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 4: So like, there's a lot of really good sports writers

935
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 4: out there who cover women's sports.

936
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 3: In the way that it deserves to be covered. So

937
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 3: those are two I just want.

938
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: To mention, Beautiful, be sure to include all of their

939
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: information in the show notes and find them eagerly. And

940
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: where can we stay connected with you? We want to

941
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: stay connected to any new projects that you have coming

942
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: up and all of the new things that are happening.

943
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: So where can we find you both online and any

944
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: social media handles? You'd like to share.

945
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: I'm Jazzadelphia Onesie, you know, from Philly Jazzadelphia on all platforms.

946
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: That's also my Gmail if you want to drop me

947
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 2: a note. TikTok is where I'm most engaging now.

948
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 4: So are you on TikTok? I'm a TikTok. I'm trying

949
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: to all right, let me follow. I just love that TikTok.

950
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 4: I've never posted one.

951
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: Actually I just did one on favorite Olympic Moments. But yeah, Jazzadelphia.

952
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: I love a DM. Love to support and encourage people

953
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 2: who want to work in the space, specifically being producers,

954
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: don't hesitate to reach.

955
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: Out on social media.

956
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 4: I'm Jamail Hill across all platforms except for TikTok because

957
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 4: somebody I think already had my name, so it's.

958
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,959
Speaker 3: Like Jamel Hill six seven two three four. I'm working

959
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 3: on this.

960
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 4: In terms of projects, as I mentioned, I'm a producer

961
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 4: on Simmo Rising, which is the documentaries that is currently

962
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 4: out on.

963
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 3: Netflix, so please watch that.

964
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: Also writing a children's book that'll be out in February.

965
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 4: I also have a new podcast that's starting in mid

966
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 4: October called Politics, which is about sports, politics and culture,

967
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 4: and so I'm really excited about that. iHeart as the platform,

968
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 4: but you can get it wherever you get your podcasts.

969
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 4: So hope to have some of these conversations that we

970
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 4: talked about on this podcast.

971
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 3: Today also on politics.

972
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 4: So I did it particularly to annoy the people who

973
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 4: said sports and politics don't mix. So I made sure

974
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 4: I mixed them and mixed it in the title so

975
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 4: that they can just completely go into a dizzy about

976
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 4: all of this.

977
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: Love that definitely would be on the lookout for that

978
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: and definitely will include all of these things that you've

979
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: shared in our show notes as well. Thank y'all so

980
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: much for spending some time with me today. I really

981
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.

982
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: Thank you, doctor Joy, Thank you doctor Joy, Thank you

983
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 3: doctor Drey. I can listen to you read a phone book.

984
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 4: You're well, so soothing, and call me if I had

985
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 4: your number, literally before I went to sleep, I would

986
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 4: call you and be like.

987
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 3: Just say something and just in.

988
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 4: The alphabet right, just talk on this ease right onto

989
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 4: a mellow sleeve.

990
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: You have such a dreadful voice. I love it.

991
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you. I'm so glad Jasmine and

992
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: Jamil were able to join me for this conversation to

993
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: learn more about them and their work. Be sure to

994
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

995
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: slash Session three seventy four, and don't forget to text

996
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: two of your girls right now and tell them to

997
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: check out the episode. If you're looking for a therapist

998
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for

999
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to

1000
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic or just be in community

1001
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in

1002
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet

1003
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at

1004
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was

1005
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: produced by Elise Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done

1006
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me

1007
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation

1008
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: with you all real soon. Take good care.