1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Now, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: last week I spent a few days in Las Vegas 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: for the Consumer Electronics Showcase. Most of the time of 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: the convention, I was just walking around the show floor 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: looking at various new types of surveillance equipment, AI products, 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: and various other bullshit that was being pedled to many 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: industry attendees of CEES. But I was also able to 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: go to a few panels. Now, panels are really interesting 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: because you get to hear people who are working inside 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: industries talk about stuff that they don't usually really publicly 11 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: talk about very much. And on the first day of 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: the convention, I went to a panel about drone technology. 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: Half of the panel was about how Walmart is launching 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: new delivery drones in Dallas, Texas. The other half was 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: about police drones. And that's what we're going to be 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: talking about here today, how the police are using dr zones, 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: why they're using drones, and how you can probably expect 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: to be seeing a lot more drones up in the 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: sky piloted by either an AI or a police officer. 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: So let's get started. Cheula Vista is the southernmost kind 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: of medium sized city in California with the population of 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy eight thousand people. Cheulavista has a 23 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: police force of two hundred and eighty nine sworn officers 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: as well as one hundred and twenty civilian employees. On 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: top of their nearly three hundred officers, they operate a 26 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: drone fleet ten hours a day, seven days a week, 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: launching high deff camera mounted drones from four locations throughout 28 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: their small city. I'm going to quote from an article 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: from the MIT Technology Review, which did a deep dive 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: onto Cheullavista's police drones back in February of twenty twenty three. Quote. 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: Cheulavista uses these drones to extend the power of its 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: workforce in a number of ways. For example, if only 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: one officer is available, when two calls come in, one 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: for an armed suspect and another for shoplifting, an officer 35 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: will respond to the first one. But now cvpd's public 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: Information Officer, Sergeant Anthony Molina, says that dispatchers can send 37 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: a drone to surreptitiously trail the suspected shoplifter. Quote, and 38 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: this really gets at the heart of how these drones 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: are going to get used. They exist to funnel more 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: people into the criminal justice system. Instead of having to 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: choose between two calls, one of which actually could relate 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: to saving someone's life, the other just a petty crime. 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Now the police can easily follow someone doing a petty 44 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: crime while responding to other calls and eventually catch up. 45 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: It's a way to just expand the amount of people 46 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: that can be arrested and thrown into jail. Nowadays, drones 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: are pretty common tools for police. Over one thy five 48 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: hundred departments currently use drones, usually for special occasions though, 49 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: like search and rescue, crime scene documentation, protest surveillance, and 50 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: sometimes tracking suspects. But at the moment, only about a 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: dozen police departments regularly dispatched drones in response to nine 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: to one one calls, the first of which was Chew 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: La Vista PD, who launched their quote drone as first 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: Responder program back in twenty eighteen. Would the goal of 55 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: having an unmanned aerial system or drone be proactively deployed 56 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: before an officer is on scene. Now we'll hear from 57 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: Chief Roxanna Kennedy of the Cheu La Vista Police Department 58 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: talking on the drone technology panel at CS We are. 59 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: Seven miles from the Mexico border, and we are the 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: second largest city in San Diego County. So we have 61 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: about two hundred and ninety officers and we serve a 62 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: community of about three hundred thousand. Because of the close 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 2: proximity to the door, we have a lot of people 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: that have traveled back and forth. We have a drone 65 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: program that I'm awfully proud of. We are responding proactively 66 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: to calls for service in our community, and so we 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: have drone station from fortifuent locations throughout our city. We 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: have pilots in command that are on the rooftop, and 69 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: then we have a operation center where we have smart 70 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: officers that are part one to seven pilots that fly 71 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: the drones. So we are responding now to calls for 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: service on average, and an officer on seeing a drone 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: on scene that's sharing information with our officers light streaming 74 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: that information on our cell phones or in our computers 75 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: that we're siving information about the call within ninety seconds 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: on average. And so what it's doing for us in 77 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: sure Vista and for our community is we are providing 78 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: information rapidly, real time information to officers so that they 79 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: can make better decisions so that everyone goes home safely. 80 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: We say, the community safer, the officers are safer, and 81 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: the subjects that we encounter are safer, so we're offully 82 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: proud of what we're doing. 83 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: The way police are able to deploy drones used to 84 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: be a lot more limited. The use of drones is 85 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: regulated by the FFA, the Federal Aviation Administration. In most cases, 86 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: the FFA requires that both hobbyists and police departments only 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: fly drones within the operator's own line of sight. But 88 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: starting back in twenty nineteen, agencies and vendors could start 89 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: applying for a beyond visual line of sight or bev 90 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: LOOSS waiver from the FFA to fly drones remotely, allowing 91 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: for much longer flights in restricted airspace. Chula Vista Pedi 92 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: was the first department to get a BEVLOST waiver. The 93 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: MIT Tech Review estimated last year that roughly two hundred 94 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: and twenty five more departments now have one as well. 95 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: Another thing that I always talk about, because I think 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: it's critical, is the concept of why we're using drones, 97 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: what the benefit is to the community with the use 98 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: of our drones, And I truly believe them. And my 99 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: officers can pick up their cell phone before they even 100 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: respond to the call, and they can look and see 101 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 2: the scene, what's happening, where the individual is. If the 102 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: person's facing in the middle of the park, there are 103 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: no children around, and there are noo, there's nobody that's 104 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: within the reach of this individual harmy, you might not 105 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: have to rush into that scene so quickly officers can 106 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: de escalate, make better decisions. And I mean, this is 107 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: just a game changer for law enforcement. And right now, 108 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: you know, we were the first agent agency to be 109 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: involved in the integrated Pilot program with the FAA. We're 110 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: very proud of that that they trusted us enough for 111 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: us to be the organization that brought forward all these 112 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: these ideas that are now being utilized in law enforcements. Now. 113 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of videos of police talking about 114 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: why they're using drones, of drone training companies talking about 115 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: why police drones are so important. In one video on 116 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: their website, this guy from Skyfire Consulting was talking about 117 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: how how police may not have had to kill Tameror 118 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: Rice if they simply had a drone watching beforehand so 119 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: they could see that it was a toy gun, which 120 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: is a ridiculous thing to say, because in the nine 121 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: one call that jump started this entire police interaction, it 122 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: was expressed that the caller thought the gun was probably 123 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: a toy. And this notion that is simply if police 124 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: have more ability to surveil, they'll be able to respond 125 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: safer and apply less deadly force, I think is a 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: pretty suspect premise. Now, the effectiveness of drone technology in 127 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: law enforcement is challenging to verify and quantify. The MIT 128 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: Tech review cannot find any third party studies showing that 129 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: drones reduce crime, even after interviewing CVPD officers as well 130 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: as drone vendors and researchers quote, nor could anyone provide 131 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: statistics on how many additional arrests or convictions came from 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: using drone technology. I was able to find some on 133 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: cvpd's website talking about how many drone initiated interactions resulted 134 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: in arrests, but quantifying additional arrests seems to be a 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: little challenging. Now, if you look at Cheulavista PD's own 136 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: drone response to stats, the vast majority of deployments I 137 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: estimate around seventy percent are for what the director of 138 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation 139 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: refers to as quote crimes of poverty unquote, which he 140 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: believes will be the target of most drone policing as 141 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: opposed to violent crime. Nearly thirty percent of Cheulavista's drone 142 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: deployments are for what's categorized as disturbances. Almost fifteen percent 143 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: are for psychological evaluations, ten percent are for quote, check 144 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: the area and information, over seven percent are for welfare checks, 145 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: six point five percent is for quote, unknown problem, and 146 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: over six percent is for suspicious person and another six 147 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: percent for traffic accidents. Now, some drone of deployments do 148 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: result in patrol units not having to be dispatched, but 149 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: CVPD also says that drones have assisted in thousands of arrests. 150 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: And I'm really not sure if having a drone following 151 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: someone around is the best thing for a fifty one 152 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: to fifty psych evaluation. The presence of a police officer 153 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: doesn't always make the situations better either, but I don't 154 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: see having a drone be a really calming presence if 155 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: you think someone needs mental help. Funding a whole fleet 156 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: of heavy duty surveillance drones and paying dedicated operators costs money. Now, 157 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: it's unclear to me how many drones to LEVISTAPD currently has, 158 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: and on their website they list ten different drone models 159 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: currently being in their fleet, most of them really expensive 160 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 1: DGI drones like the DGI Matrix, the DGI Inspire, the 161 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: DGA Phantom, the dj Maverick, as well as drones from 162 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: a few other random companies. But nevertheless, Chief Kennedy is 163 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: very grateful for their local police Foundation for heading up 164 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: the funding for their DFR drone first Responder program. Let's 165 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: hear from her. 166 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone here is in law enforcement, 167 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: but many agencies use drunes and there are all different 168 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: types of drones that are available. I call them reactive 169 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: drums or ones that are like the tactical drunes that 170 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: you can use to go in on a hostage situation 171 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: or a missing person to check in the canyon areas, 172 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: or you know, interior drones. We have drums that go 173 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: underneath bands, go inside addicts, all types of different drones, 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 2: and many organizations have drones like that, But a DFR 175 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: drone is very unique and different because these drones are flying. 176 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 2: As you can imagine, eighteen thousand missions, it puts a 177 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: lot of wear and tear on But that is one 178 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: of the biggest challenges beyond the fact of funding. So 179 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: we don't have huge budgets that are allotted for drone programs, 180 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: and so we've had to be very, very creative in 181 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: our police department, and we were very blessed to have 182 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: a police Foundation that has taken on the responsibility to 183 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: help us really start our drone program and continue going forward. 184 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: So funding is always going to be a challenge and 185 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: dependent upon the drone that you use. There are some 186 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: drones that you can't get any as you can't use 187 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: for assets seizure funding, nor can you get grants for 188 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: because sometimes when it comes to foreign drones there are 189 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: many challenges as well. So you have to think of 190 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 2: that and then we deal with legislation. Right now, that's 191 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: the new challenge that we all have. We have to 192 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 2: fite some bals. Like I said, I'm agnostic. I want 193 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: to use what's the best drum out there and protect 194 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: the information and we do that with encrypted software programs 195 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: that are on private servers. But you'll see that there's 196 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: a lot of discussion about drones and what drones we 197 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: should be using right now. 198 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: We'll get back to the chief's offhanded mention of legal 199 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: battles in a bit here, but Chula Vista's budgetary situation 200 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: may not be as dire as the Chief makes it 201 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: out to be, on top of their current fifty five 202 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: million dollar operating budget. Back in twenty twenty, the Loprenza 203 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: newspaper revealed that departments in San Diego County had secretly 204 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: been getting hundreds of millions of dollars in high tech 205 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: police equipment, including armored vehicles, facial recognition and phone breaking software, 206 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: license plate readers, drones, riot gear, among other miscellaneous technology, 207 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: as a part of a DHS grant program. Due to 208 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: their close proximity to the US Mexico border, Cheula Vista 209 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: was one such department, and as of twenty twenty, so 210 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: four years ago, they had already received over one million 211 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: dollars in grant funds from this DHS program, titled the 212 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: quote Urban Area Security Initiative. Considering Chief Kennedy's budgetary concerns, 213 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: drones actually have a lot of upsides financially, as they 214 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: are often a lot cheaper than alternative surveillance methods, as 215 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: well as being relatively easy to deploy remotely, either with 216 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: a joystick or just by clicking a point on a 217 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: map from a comfy office building. Issues around this ease 218 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: of use was pointed out by Dave Moss, the director 219 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: of investigations for the privacy rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, 220 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: who was quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, up 221 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: until the last like five to ten years, there was 222 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: this unspoken check and balance on law enforcement power money. 223 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: You cannot have a police officer standing on every corner 224 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: of every street. You can't have a helicopter flying twenty 225 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: four seven because of fuel and insurance is really expensive. 226 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: But with all these new technologies, we don't have that 227 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: check and balance anymore. That's just going to result in 228 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: more people being pulled through the criminal justice system. 229 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: My officers constantly are on the air now is U 230 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 2: as one available? Is US one available? Because it's giving 231 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: them more information. Think about the fact that you can 232 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: look at your cell phone. I could be anywhere in 233 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: the world and I can look at kit lets me 234 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: know whenever there's a drone flock, and I can walk. 235 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: I can have visual awareness, aial overlay of what's happening 236 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: in my community, no matter where I am. 237 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: Advancements in technology are leading to further normalization of police surveillance. 238 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: Ten years ago, would people react to news of a 239 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: twenty four hour police drone program the same way they 240 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: would now. What was once the threat of big Brother 241 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: has since become a very sought after, unfetishized nanny state. 242 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: In the v for Veneta graphic novel, anarchist writer Alan 243 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: Moore imagined a fascist Britain characterized by surveillance cameras around 244 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: every corner, and now cities around the country are setting 245 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: up their own street mounted cameras, linked to private security 246 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: cameras and ring doorbell cameras to create a network of 247 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: life coverage around a whole city which is instantly accessible 248 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: to police. The more widespread consumer adoption of new technologies 249 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: like small camera mounted drones and doorbell cameras, the more 250 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: acceptable it seems for police to add such technology to 251 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: their arsenal of surveillance tools. It almost becomes expected to 252 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: LAVISTIPEDI has routinely declined to answer why their drones are 253 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: always recording both to and from the scene, and the 254 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: department has put in a lot of effort into managing 255 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: the backlash against their expanding drone program. 256 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: And I'll tell you one thing. Even some of the 257 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: day after this, they were very concerned about drones in 258 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: the sense of privacy. What are you doing with these drones? 259 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: As you're responding, you're trying to gather data and information 260 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: to spy on us, right, And we had to go 261 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: to a lot of detail and explaining that as our 262 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: drone lits off, it is immediately it is recording because 263 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: that's the information gatherer for us. As that drone responds, 264 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: the camera is already going almost three miles down the 265 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: roads where the scene is and giving us vital information 266 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: as the officers are responding. But one of the criticism was, well, 267 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: on the way back, is your drone just going in 268 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: my backyard? What if we're spoking marijuana in our backyard? 269 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: And I said, you're in California, it doesn't really matter. 270 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: But what we let that way go, right, But we said, okay, 271 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 2: we gave your concern. And so what we did was 272 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: we worked with the software company that we were with, 273 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 2: and they created an automatic so that as a drone returns, 274 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: it automatically tilts to the horizon. So we're not recording anything. 275 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: If another call came out, we can immediately we'll go 276 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: back a flight mapping for us and it will share 277 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 2: that information later on. But the goal is to listen 278 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: to your community as well. 279 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: Chief Kennedy's claim here is difficult to back up because 280 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: CVPD have refused to show the public any of the 281 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: drone footage they routinely collect. But if we take the 282 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: Chief at her word here anyway, she admits that the 283 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: drone goes back to recording at street level as soon 284 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: as there's another nine one one call, as they record 285 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: everything on the way to a scene. And the way 286 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: she phrases this whole tilt feature is quite misleading because 287 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: the camera never actually stops recording. She just claims that 288 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: it tilts slightly upwards in between nine one one calls, 289 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: but it's still capturing footage up to three miles away 290 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: the entire time it's in the air. Police in Cheulavista 291 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: have flown over eighteen thousand missions with their drowns. That's 292 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: a lot of footage. When talking about the privacy concerns 293 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: had by some residents of Cheulavista, Chief Kennedy really emphasized 294 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: how much her in the department really care about listening 295 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: to community feedback and how data transparency is so important 296 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: to CVPD. 297 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 2: Community engagement is essential, especially in law enforcement because there 298 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: is there are so many challenges when it comes to 299 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: misinformation that's out there, and whenever you're a part of 300 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: what's deemed as a government, everyone thinks that you have 301 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 2: some ulterior motive when you're involved with any type of technology, 302 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 2: and so we have worked really hard to build very 303 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: strong relationships with every aspect of our community. So it 304 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: was about in twenty fifteen when we started talking about 305 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: the concept and the possibility of drones and a laugh 306 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: with Chancel, said George Jensen, because that's my story that 307 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: I used to and I love it because I made 308 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: fun of my guys when they said that we want 309 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: to fly drunes. I said, oh, come on, now, what 310 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: are we in me? George jetson blind the cars, and 311 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: then I saw today they talked about a blind car. 312 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: So it happens. It happens, right, And so with the community, 313 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: we started having these conversations. We created a working group, 314 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 2: we started doing community forums. We started asking the community 315 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: about what would you think if we were able to 316 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: do something like this. We even went to some of 317 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 2: the organizations that may not always be so supportive of 318 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 2: these types of groups. We worked with the ASL you 319 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 2: and asked for their input on our policy. So before 320 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 2: we ever flew a drune, we call it the krawl 321 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 2: walk run base. We're still at the very end of crawl. 322 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: We're not into lock yet and we've been doing it 323 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: again also for five years. So you have to make 324 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 2: certain that you're transparent and we provided all types of 325 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: information that are available. If you go to all you 326 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: have put in is jobs to place drums and it'll 327 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: come up with us and you can look at all 328 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: the things that we do, all the information that we share, 329 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 2: the flight maps that we share. I mean, it's just 330 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: super important to have those community forums. Every year. We 331 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: do a community forum twice a year where we ask 332 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 2: for from our community. 333 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: Later on in the panel, Chief Kennedy said that CVPD 334 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: is quote unquote extremely transparent about their flight data and 335 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote have nothing to hide relating to their use 336 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: of surveillance drones, which is a curious claim considering the 337 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: fact that CVPD has historically kept all drone footage hidden 338 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: from the public and has fought in court to do so, 339 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: despite the chief's emphasis on the police's commitment to transparency 340 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: and the importance of listening to community feedback, even going 341 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: as far as to consult the ACLU when developing their 342 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: drone program. For years now, the Cheulvista Police Department has 343 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: denied all FOYA and public records requests for any drone footage. 344 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: In response, are Turno Castanares, a Teu Livista resident and 345 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: owner of the local bilingual newspaper Loprenza, filed a lawsuit 346 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: against the city. CVPD argued that all drone footage should 347 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: be categorically exempt from the public records requests on the 348 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: basis that the footage could be used for a future investigation. 349 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: Just last December, only a few weeks before Cees, the 350 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: California Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled that this blanket 351 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: exemption is invalid and that not all drone first responder 352 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: footage could be classified as part of appending or ongoing 353 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: criminal investigation, pointing to examples such as nine oh one 354 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: calls about a roaming mountain lion or a stranded motorist. 355 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: And police were not happy about this ruling. I'll talk 356 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 1: about their reaction at the end of the episode, but 357 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: controlling the narrative about the drone first Responder program has 358 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: been of the utmost importance to Trulavista Police. As the 359 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: chief herself expressed at the panel, feel good about telling 360 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: our story. 361 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: If you don't tell your own story in law enforcement, 362 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 2: other people will tell it for it and it might 363 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: not be the right story. So we've gotten really good 364 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: at sharing on our social media and through YouTube channels 365 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: and everything success stories of what we're doing. 366 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: That is quite the claim there, to paraphrase the Electronic 367 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: Frontier Foundation. Without public access to their drone footage, it 368 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: makes it very difficult to assess how much privacy you 369 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: have in Cheula Vista and whether police are even following 370 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: their own rules about when and whether they record sensitive 371 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: places like people's homes, backyards, or public protests. And that's 372 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: why this recent ruling and the legal precedent it sets 373 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: is a huge win for actual transparency and marks the 374 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: first step towards the public finally getting a look at 375 00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: how these drones are being used in Scheula Vista. With 376 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: drone first responder programs is spreading to police departments across 377 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: the country, modeled after the one in Chula Vesta. Combined 378 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: with the increasing presence of stationary street level cameras, the 379 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: ability for police to be watching everywhere without the need 380 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: for on the ground officers creates what the eff refers 381 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: to as quote, a fundamental change in strategy with police 382 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: responding to a much much larger number of situations with drones, 383 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: resulting in pervasive, if not persistent, surveillance of communities unquote. 384 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: Speaking of persistent surveillance, near the end of the panel, 385 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 1: the chief announced that to Lavesta, PD is planning to 386 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: expand their ten hour a day drone first responder program 387 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: to a constant twenty four hour a day drone surveillance program, 388 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: more than doubling the department's capaccy need to have eyes 389 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: in the sky would mean a lot more work hours 390 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: for drone operators, as well as a large increase in 391 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: the amount of video files being stored indefinitely, But Chief 392 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: Kennedy claimed that they're looking into offsetting costs by replacing 393 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: some of the drone piloting team with AI assisted piloting 394 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: and autonomous devices. 395 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: You've clearly been a leader with thrones's first responder and technology. 396 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: Looking forward, what is the future hole for the Department. 397 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 2: I assume you're spending a lot of time telling others 398 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: about the program edition using drones, but beyond that, what's 399 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: it at Well, my hope is that we'll be moving 400 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: towards twenty four hour operations. Right now, we're from sunrise 401 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: to sunset. We go till close to ten o'clock at night, 402 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: which goes a little bit beyond that. And then one 403 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: of the challenges, and I know you're only getting like 404 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: a little piece of the information about exactly how we're 405 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 2: doing this, but from the four different locations that we 406 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: fly on each of the rooftops, we have what's called 407 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 2: piloting command, and that piloting command is contracted through a 408 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: company and we and they just have visual awareness of 409 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: the sky and they work in coordination with our drone 410 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: pilot that's inside our operations center. But that's a huge 411 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: expense for us to pay lead for each site. Right now, 412 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: with the operations that we have, we paint about one 413 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars per year, So that's four hundred thousand 414 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 2: dollars for four locations. Beyond all the other proces associating 415 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 2: and so if you get expensive, my hope is that 416 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: and we keep hearing about it. We've seen some of 417 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: the testing and we've been testing it as well in 418 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: our area. Are what's called drone in the box or 419 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: there's some of the systems that are out there right 420 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: now that organizations are using that are autonomous, and so 421 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: we're getting there, but we're not quite there because it's 422 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 2: very different when you're dealing with flying over people and 423 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: you're flying into areas where the drone was to drop 424 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: out of the sky and harkey a community. That could 425 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: create tremendous challenges for a silver Barry. As I mentioned 426 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: the crawl things. 427 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: So to explain how these AI autonomous drones would work, 428 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: It's essentially this box about the size of a truck 429 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: bed that can either be mounted in like a police 430 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: pickup truck or be stored on various rooftops around the city, 431 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: and someone just needs to point at a place on 432 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: a map and the drone will fly in pilot itself 433 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: around obstacles and basically circle around an area to do 434 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: surveillance and you can call it back when you're done. 435 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: This would require a whole bunch of drones to just 436 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: be launching and being piloted by themselves. You wouldn't have 437 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: to train random police officers to become FAA licensed pilots, 438 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: and you could just have the whole thing in the box, 439 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: like it's called drone in the box. And these are 440 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: only going to become more common and cheaper. Imagine having 441 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: ten of these throw out a city, launching from like 442 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: ten different rooftops, being able to fly around by themselves, 443 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: constantly going around in communities, constantly going to GPS coordinates 444 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: linked to the nine one one calls, creating a whole 445 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: wealth of footage instantly available to police, live streamed from 446 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: the air. Matt Sloane, the founder of Skyfire Consulting, a 447 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: company here in Atlanta that trains law enforcement agencies on 448 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: the use of drones and DFR programs, thinks that we'll 449 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: start seeing autonomous deployment of police drones within the next 450 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: year or two, as police budgets increase and become allocated 451 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: for unmanned aerial systems. He referred to the state of 452 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: drone use by police as quote rapidly escalating. Chula Vista 453 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: likes to market itself as a pioneer of this smart 454 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: city movement, which consequently makes them able to receive a 455 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: whole bunch of grant funding. Now, the idea of the 456 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: smart city is built around having a massive amount of 457 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: data to automate certain city services. So for this idea 458 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: to work, there needs to be a way to collect 459 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: that data, and these drones are a major part of that. 460 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: The website for the City of Tula Vista also lists 461 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: projects like electronic transportation, adaptive traffic signals in app for 462 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: non emergency city services, as well as quote crime mapping 463 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: and police dispatch modernization unquote as also being smart city initiatives. 464 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 2: We have what's called by nine one one one and 465 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: that allows my officers to hear incoming nine more one 466 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: calls before dispatchally even puts it into the system. They 467 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: can hear what's going on there, and that is tremendously 468 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: in valuable to them. We have so many different layers 469 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: of technology that have really showcase the value. 470 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: Live nine one one is a new piece of software 471 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: that allows patrol officers to listen to live stream to 472 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: nine one one calls directly and pinpoints the location of 473 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: the caller via GPS. Now, I don't even have time 474 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: to get into the many reasons that this could be 475 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: a bad idea, but simply but police do not need 476 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: to respond to every call that goes into nine one one, 477 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: let alone be giving random cops this ability to self 478 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: dispatch on their own. It just seems like that could 479 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: have many, many consequences. But anyway, back to drones. According 480 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: to a twenty twenty article in the newspaper Loprenza, cities 481 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: in San Diego County like Chula Vista have received equipment 482 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: such as tethered drones used for stationary surveillance, poll cameras, 483 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: license plate readers, and cell phone cracking technology used to 484 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: circumvent passwords from the Urban Area Security Initiative DHS grant program. 485 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,719 Speaker 1: A lot of these technologies have use in the Smart 486 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: City Idyllic plan for data collection to automate city services. 487 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: After the drone panel was over and I was walking 488 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: around the show floor at CEES, I couldn't help but 489 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: notice all of the smart cameras and AI image recognition 490 00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: systems being advertised for law enforcement applications. Software that can 491 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: almost instantaneously scan through a wealth of footage and track 492 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: people's movements, run facial recognition, and identify every article of clothing. 493 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: Versions of this type of software are already in use 494 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: by many police departments, and they will only get better, cheaper, 495 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: and more common. In effect, what this does is remove 496 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the detective legwork. Instead of having to 497 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: manually map someone's movements and track down what niche etsy 498 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: shirt someone's wearing, these aisystems can now do this all automatically. 499 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: To quote the MIT Tech Review article on cvpd's dfr 500 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: drone program, quote, As the technology continues to spread, privacy 501 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: and civil liberty groups are raising the question of what 502 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: happens when drones are combined with license plate readers, networks 503 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: of fixed cameras, and new real time command centers that 504 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: digest and sort through video evidence. This digital dragnet could 505 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: dramatically expand surveillance capabilities and lead to even more police 506 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: interactions demographics that have historically suffered from over policing. Unquote. 507 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: Pedro Rios, a human rights advocate with the American Friends 508 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: Service Committee and a member of Chula Vista's Community Tech Council, 509 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: was quoted in the MIT article saying, quote, people in 510 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: the community have no awareness of what images are captured, 511 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: how the footage is retained, and who has access. It's 512 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: a big red flag for a city that says it's 513 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: at the forefront of the smart city movement. 514 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: Unquote, these drawns, they're revolutionizing the world. You I mean 515 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 2: people who are not taking drawn seriously right now, who 516 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 2: will be left behind. We have flown eighteen one hundred 517 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: and fifty missions. You can go on a web page, 518 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: you can see the flight dream. We're extremely transparent. We 519 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: share all that with our community. We have no need 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: to hide. We are in the business of saving wise 521 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 2: and I believe drones are one of the best estories. 522 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 2: She folds them. 523 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: If they truly have nothing to hide and are extremely 524 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: transparent about the use of their camera mounted drones, I 525 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: wonder why they've spent years in court fighting to keep 526 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: every second of drone footage from being seen by the public. Luckily, 527 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: after Chief Kennedy talked for like thirty minutes about how 528 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: much they care about community engagement and how transparent they 529 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: are with their flight data, I was able to ask 530 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: the Chief how their commitment to transparency relates to the 531 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: recent lawsuit she just lost over hiding drone footage. And 532 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: I also threw in a question about drones at protests. 533 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. 534 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, a question for the chief. 535 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,239 Speaker 3: So I know you talked about the importance of like 536 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 3: listening to the community and community engagement. And I'm not 537 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 3: sure this is the case for your department, but other 538 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 3: departments who've kind of followed suit, for your example, have 539 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 3: been using drones to surveil first time in activity stuff. 540 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 3: And i know you recently lost a court case regarding 541 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: the availability of drone footage, so I'm curious about kind 542 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 3: of what the rationale for that footage is and how 543 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 3: that plays into this idea of trying to be transparent 544 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 3: with the community for how these drones are being used. 545 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: That's going to be going to be a little bit 546 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: difficult for me to answer because the court case is 547 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: still moving forward. It's an active case. If you read it, 548 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: we didn't lose the case. It was recommended to go 549 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 2: to a lower core to go back for some clarification 550 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: under three categories. 551 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: Now this is either a straight upply or a huge 552 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: cope and a gross mischaracterization. But more on that in 553 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: a sec I think. 554 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: It's really important. As I mentioned, there are ethics involved 555 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 2: in The ethical responsibility that you have as a law 556 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: enforcement agency is super important. So how you utilize your 557 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: drones and how you do outreach with your community is 558 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: fundamentally important, and so we don't use our drones for 559 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: if there was a protest, we would not use our 560 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 2: drones if there was if it turned into a riot. 561 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 2: So if people were out there and they have the 562 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 2: ability to to speak freely, to share their concerns, and 563 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: if it's in opposition, our goal is to make sure 564 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: that we keep it safe for all parties involved on 565 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 2: either side. So my hope is that other people look 566 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: at it the same way that we do, and hopefully 567 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: I've been able to answer it as much as I 568 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 2: leave me. I'm dying to give you more than I can't. Okay, 569 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 2: thank you for those questions. Folks were out of time. 570 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 2: Maybe there could be questions after the session. 571 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, there were no more questions after mine. I 572 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: kind of shut down that possibility anyway. Okay. So, first 573 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: of all, the line between a protest and a riot 574 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: is meaningless. Police can declare a riot for any reason 575 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: they see fit, including people being in a road marching. 576 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: I've seen this happen and times, nearly hundreds of times actually, 577 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: So just moving on from that immediately, let's go back 578 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: to the court case. The city of Cheulavista did lose 579 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: the argument that they were trying to make. They did 580 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: lose the case. The Fourth District Court of Appeals ruled 581 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: that claiming exemption from the Public Records Act was unlawful 582 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and sent the case back to trial court to hammer 583 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: the details of how much footage is subject to public 584 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: disclosure and figure out a process for standardizing the release 585 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: of the footage. Now. The same day I attended this 586 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: panel in Las Vegas, January ninth, the city of Chula 587 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: Vista requested an appeal to the California Supreme Court to 588 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: prevent the release of their aerial video footage. There is 589 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: a sixty day waiting period where the High Court will 590 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: decide whether or not to take the case, and if 591 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: they decline finally, it will go back to trial court 592 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: to decide on the process of how selected drone footage 593 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: shall be made publicly available. The police US are now 594 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: currently claiming that making DFI footage adhere to the Public 595 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: Records Act would violate the privacy of Chula Vista residents 596 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: captured in the videos, which perhaps demonstrates that the aerial 597 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: videos should have never been captured in the first place. 598 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to read a press release from the city's 599 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: communication manager. Quote, the city declined to provide the copies 600 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: because doing so might have violated individual privacy rights. The 601 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: city would have to manually review and redact every video 602 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: recording to protect information considered personal, such as the images 603 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: of faces, license plates, backyards, and more unquote. So the 604 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: city is both trying to argue that having to manually 605 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: review each requested file to determine if the video in 606 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: question is related to a pending investigation, as well as 607 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: redacting personal information captured on camera, would be way too 608 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: costly and time consuming. City officials claim that reviewing and 609 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: redacting videos from one month to obscure faces, license plates, 610 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: and backyards would take a full time employee around two 611 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,919 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty days. I'm going to read a little 612 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: bit more from the city's recent statement. 613 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 2: Quote. 614 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: While the city takes very seriously its obligation to provide 615 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: the public access to public records, the city is concerned 616 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: that the Court of Appeal's opinion may compromise significant privacy 617 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: concerns of members of the public in this case or 618 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: in future requests unquote. Somehow, the city is missing the 619 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: point that this is the very reason the drone footage 620 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: is being requested. To learn the actual nature of this 621 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: highly influential drone first responder program that's being adopted across 622 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: the country. If the existence of this footage is such 623 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: a massive privacy violation, that implies that the recording of 624 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: said footage itself implicitly violates people's privacy, And the harder 625 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: police fight to hide their sweeping collection of aerial footage 626 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: wi all the more suspicious this entire program seems. So 627 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: that is what I have to say about Chula Vista's 628 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: drone first responder program. In about a month and a half, 629 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of California will make their decision on 630 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: whether or not they're going to hear this case. If 631 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: they decline, then the president will be set statewide against 632 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: this exemption of the Public Records Act by hiding drone footage. 633 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 1: So that will be really cool, And then hopefully within 634 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: the next year we'll finally be able to see what 635 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: some of this footage actually looks like, how good their 636 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: cameras are, how much they can zoom in all of 637 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: the details of how much of the city they're capturing, 638 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, how often the drones are 639 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: in the air, all of those types of things that 640 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: it will be easier to highlight once we can actually 641 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: take a look at the footage. And I assume that 642 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: going through and releasing requested files for one month will 643 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: probably end up not taking two hundred and thirty days. 644 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: But I do know how the police love to love 645 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: to stretch out these public records requests for as long 646 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: as they can. As the request that this lawsuit stems from. 647 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: It's all the way back to April of twenty twenty one, 648 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: so hopefully, hopefully more than three years later, we'll finally 649 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: get a look. Special thanks to Loprenza for starting this 650 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: lawsuit and doing all of the hard work to actually 651 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: force the police to be transparent. And if you want 652 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: to read more, I'd recommend checking out their website to 653 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: Loprensa dot org, as well as the MIT tech review piece, 654 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: which provided some really really useful information to fill in 655 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 1: the gaps between my own research. So yeah, thank you 656 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: for listening to It could happen here. It certainly could 657 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: happen here in terms of seeing more of these little 658 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: fuckers flying around in the air. It could happen here 659 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 660 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visitor our website coolzonemedia dot com, 661 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 662 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources 663 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 1: for It could happen here, Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot 664 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: com slash sources. Thanks for listening.