1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,120
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother,

2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie missing day eleven in the last hours. Another

3
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: note to TMZ. This is after last night's disheartening catch

4
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 1: and release of a potential suspect. I'm Nancy Grace. This

5
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being

6
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 1: with us. What incentive is left for them to return

7
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie?

8
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 2: The legitimacy of these ransom notes truly coming to question

9
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 2: more and more.

10
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,520
Speaker 3: Are there more than one perpetrator here?

11
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,960
Speaker 2: That's going to be somebody at least connected to her

12
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:44,200
Speaker 2: that has something.

13
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,480
Speaker 1: Againa another missive in the Nancy Guthrie search has been

14
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: sent to t m Z short for thirty mile zone

15
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: surrounding LA. It's not from the kidnapper. It's from someone

16
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: offering to give up the kidnapper for one Bitcoin, which

17
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 1: at this hour is valued at around sixty six thousand dollars.

18
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: Straight out to Crime Stories investigator Dave Matt, what do we.

19
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 4: Know well this new note in the Nancy Guthrie case, Nancy,

20
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 4: is it? As you mentioned, it doesn't seem to be

21
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 4: coming from the actual kidnappers. Instead, this is someone offering

22
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 4: to give up information about the kidnappers. Now, this note

23
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 4: came in early this morning, eight am Eastern Time. The

24
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,479
Speaker 4: sender claims they've tried unsuccessfully to reach Savannah Guthrie's brother

25
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,000
Speaker 4: Cameron and her sister Amy by email and text. The

26
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,039
Speaker 4: note goes on, if they want the name of the

27
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 4: individual involved, then I want one bitcoin to the following wallet.

28
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 4: Time is more than relevant. Now there is a legitimate

29
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 4: bitcoin address in the note, and it is a different

30
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 4: address from the one in the origin ransom note that

31
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,920
Speaker 4: TMZ received and the two twoson television stations. Right now,

32
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,680
Speaker 4: it's unclear if the center of this note is legitimate. Bye,

33
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 4: one bitcoin worth about sixty six thousand dollars right now.

34
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 4: And you know they're offering up a fifty thousand dollars

35
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,840
Speaker 4: reward for information leading to Nancy's kidnappers. So this was

36
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,080
Speaker 4: received earlier today. Maybe not the kidnappers, but offering info

37
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 4: on the kidnapper.

38
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: Wow, that's another bombshell in already a confusing and circuitous

39
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 1: route of evidence straight out to Jessica Finn joining us.

40
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 1: She is the senior investigative reporter at the US SUN.

41
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: She has been on the gu three disappearance from the

42
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 1: very beginning hour one. Jessica, give me a recap. I'm

43
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 1: trying to figure this out. We've got a fifty thousand

44
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,919
Speaker 1: dollars reward on the table if they send the sixty

45
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 1: six grand the one bitcoin to this person, and it's legit,

46
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: that reward would really compensate for the bulk of that. Okay,

47
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 1: tell me your understanding of what's happening right now and

48
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 1: why TMZ. I'm glad you know it's TMZ because Levin

49
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of people bombard me with this when

50
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: I say it. But Levin, unlike a lot of actors,

51
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: a lot of participants, let me say, would capitalize on

52
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,679
Speaker 1: the notes they received. Levin did not publish them. He

53
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: took them straight to the FBI. He didn't just, let

54
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: me just say, a technical legal term, whore out for

55
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: the clicks. Okay, he could have done that. He didn't

56
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 1: do that, and he's still refusing to state exactly what

57
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 1: was in the missives. So good, I'm glad it went

58
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 1: to Levin at TMZ five o'clock in the morning Pacific.

59
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: Tell me what you know.

60
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 5: So this is actually going to be the third ransom

61
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 5: letter that's been sent out. We had the first one

62
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 5: that initially came out demanding these six sixty million that

63
00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 5: went out to KOLD, k GUN and TMZ. Then we

64
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 5: had this second letter that just went out to KOLD

65
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 5: that came sometime, I want to say, and my days

66
00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 5: are now totally merging together, but sometime, I believe towards

67
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 5: the end of last week. And that was basically the

68
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 5: message that Savannah had Savannah and her brother and sister

69
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 5: had responded to, where Savannah said, we received your message

70
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,159
Speaker 5: and we understand, we would we still want the return

71
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:25,839
Speaker 5: of our mother. We will pay and we you know,

72
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 5: this is how we'll have peace. So this is now

73
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 5: the third letter that's been sent. It's the second letter

74
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,159
Speaker 5: that's gone to TMZ. TEMZ didn't get the second letter

75
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,719
Speaker 5: that Savannah responded to last week. And basically this letter

76
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 5: says that they had tried unsuccessfully to reach out to

77
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 5: Annie Guthrie and Annie and Cameron Guthrie, Savannah's brother and sister,

78
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 5: and they are saying that they have information to show

79
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 5: the authorities who this kidnapper is exactly, and they want

80
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,440
Speaker 5: the amount of just a bit above the fifty thousand

81
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 5: dollars FBI reward. They want sixty wanted one bitcoin, which

82
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,599
Speaker 5: equals about sixty six thousand dollars for that information. Totally

83
00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,600
Speaker 5: terrifying situation. You don't know what what is real, what

84
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,279
Speaker 5: is fake at this point and certainly just another to

85
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,159
Speaker 5: kink in this really awful and long saga about finding

86
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 5: Nancy Guthrie.

87
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,600
Speaker 1: You know, Jessica Finn, I don't know how you can

88
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 1: have your ear to the ground seemingly twenty four to

89
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 1: seven three sixty five, because the moment this happened, you

90
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,679
Speaker 1: are all over it. I'm just curious what your take is. Okay,

91
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,280
Speaker 1: we could talk about why TMZ hykold y k gun forever.

92
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: Obviously the person is from Tucson or from the Tucson

93
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 1: area that maybe grew up watching k Gun or kold.

94
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: But TMZ has a certain demographic, right, I look at

95
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 1: it all the time. I have my that I read

96
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 1: every morning and throughout the day. Some are stuffy and

97
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,719
Speaker 1: stodgy and some are TMZ where I find out the

98
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 1: latest in the world of wrestling and UFC fighters and

99
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,359
Speaker 1: just all kind of crazy celebnies mixed in with news

100
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 1: like this. So that leads me to ideas on who

101
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,640
Speaker 1: the purpose is that they have isolated TMZ kold k gun.

102
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,720
Speaker 1: But I find interesting here and I want your take

103
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,599
Speaker 1: on it, Jessica. Why the let me just say communicator

104
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 1: states that he she tried to reach Annie and Cameron

105
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,800
Speaker 1: and couldn't. What do you make of that?

106
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 3: Well, you know, that is actually a really interesting point.

107
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 5: And if you recalled, there was an individual that gentlemen

108
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,840
Speaker 5: not gentlemen, that was arrested during late last week for

109
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 5: sending a colansom note to Annie Guthrie specifically thank you

110
00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,720
Speaker 5: to Annie guph and her husband specifically demanding money, and

111
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 5: that guy got arrested for faking it.

112
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 3: And you know he had sent there.

113
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,040
Speaker 5: That letter went straight to the siblings, And so I

114
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 5: don't know if maybe this person's been following the case

115
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 5: and thought let me try the siblings first as the

116
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:17,679
Speaker 5: quieter route.

117
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 3: But TMZ certainly is the way to get the bullhorn

118
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 3: on your note if you really want it reported and

119
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 3: you want it reported quickly.

120
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 5: It sounds like TMZ has been the way to go

121
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 5: because the local affiliates were a little bit more close

122
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 5: to the best and we're a little bit more slow

123
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 5: to report that they had received those ransom notes, whereas

124
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 5: TMS has a little bit I probably has a much

125
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 5: bigger team of attorneys and people guiding them as to.

126
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 3: What they can and cannot say.

127
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm mm hmm. You know what I also find interesting,

128
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: and let me tell this to Matthew Lopez. He is

129
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: the owner of the largest criminal defense law firm in

130
00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, Arizona at Matthew Matthew. I noticed that this

131
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 1: communicator stated that he tried, she tried unsuccessfully to reach

132
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 1: Cameron Guthrie sister Annie Guthrie. He didn't mention Savannah Hello,

133
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: she's been posting on Insta. Why not reach her on Insta?

134
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: Be so easy?

135
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: Right?

136
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, it would be easy. And that kind of leads

137
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 6: me to believes that it may not be true. And

138
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,560
Speaker 6: he wants to get to TMZ because he knows that

139
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 6: the masses watch TMZ and they READTMZ. I'm very skeptical

140
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,520
Speaker 6: about paying somebody for information. To date, we haven't had

141
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,679
Speaker 6: any proof of life, we haven't had any follow up

142
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 6: communications about any of the ransom. We have no reason

143
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 6: to believe that the original ransom was even true, So

144
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 6: why should we even believe that this second demand for

145
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 6: one bitcoin there's some legitacy to it.

146
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 7: I would give.

147
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 6: If I was advising the family, I would say, look,

148
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 6: you know, let's not start going down this hole, right

149
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,439
Speaker 6: we could. This could spiral out of control to one

150
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 6: thing leads to another and another and another of just

151
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 6: a fictitious hoax of ransoms and requests and demands, and

152
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,559
Speaker 6: it just does not pass the smell.

153
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 7: Test for me mm hmm.

154
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,480
Speaker 1: And Matthew Lopez guys, I give him a hard time

155
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,600
Speaker 1: because he defends criminals and he knows their criminals. But

156
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: he has dealt with so many criminals he can definitely

157
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 1: smell a rat. To doctor Bethany Marshall, this person wanting

158
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 1: sixty six grand has the if it's real, has the ability.

159
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: Fuck okay. Brian Fitzgibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security.

160
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: His team goes all over the world locating missing people.

161
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? This guy has the ability,

162
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 1: if it's real, to save the law for Nancy Guthrie.

163
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 1: But he's using her, he's bortering his alleged knowledge when

164
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 1: he could just save her life and get the fifty grand.

165
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,360
Speaker 1: If it's real, de phrase, if it's real?

166
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 2: Right, this is with all the media attention twenty four

167
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,000
Speaker 2: to seven on this case, I have serious doubts that

168
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 2: this new note to TMZ is in fact authentic. You know,

169
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 2: sixty six thousand dollars aligns with the fifty k that

170
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 2: the FBI is offering. The obvious question would be asked,

171
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 2: if they had real information, why would they not bring

172
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,920
Speaker 2: that to the FBI and cash in on the fifty k.

173
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,200
Speaker 2: This will be immediately investigated, But I believe that this

174
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 2: is just yet another distraction and what's turned into a

175
00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: bit of a media circus.

176
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: Here of his gibbons. If it's not real, he can

177
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: go down just like Kalela did for his fake ransom

178
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,440
Speaker 1: that he texted to the family. He just got charged

179
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: under eighteen USC and he's facing felony charges by the

180
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 1: Feds and they don't play. So if this guy's lying,

181
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 1: he can go join Kalela for a little tea party.

182
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,120
Speaker 7: Agree, Yeah, I.

183
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 2: Mean I would defer to the defense attorney here on

184
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: that one, But I would think that the FEDS would

185
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,679
Speaker 2: absolutely prosecute this in some way if it turns out

186
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 2: that this is not authentic.

187
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:53,320
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace For those of you that

188
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 1: went to sleep last night thinking, ah, finally a crack

189
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 1: in the case. We're gonna bring Nancy Goree home alive.

190
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:09,000
Speaker 1: Then woke up to your hopes dashed this morning, Join us,

191
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:14,439
Speaker 1: we all feel the same. Overnight there was a flurry

192
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: of activity when SWAT teams, decked with shields and full

193
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,360
Speaker 1: SWAT tech gear rolled out for the first time since

194
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:29,240
Speaker 1: Guthrie goes missing. That was significant. Taking off in armored vehicles.

195
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 1: They all gathered from two at least two jurisdictions. The

196
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: location was kept away from the media. It was not reported.

197
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: Then they descended a person taken into detainment. This morning

198
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 1: we learn he is released. Joining me in All Star

199
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,679
Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we are learning. Straight

200
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 1: out to Dave mac Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave.

201
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 4: What happened minutes Nancy? Minutes after the FBI released the

202
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 4: pictures and the video of the suspects at the door,

203
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,079
Speaker 4: the FBI and the Sheriff's department was flooded with tips

204
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 4: from everywhere. Within a matter of minutes, the SWAT team

205
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 4: gets loaded up and heads straight for Annie Guthrie's house

206
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,680
Speaker 4: and neighborhood. They're going door to door talking to neighbors.

207
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,040
Speaker 4: They're looking through the bushes, they're looking in story sheds.

208
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,839
Speaker 1: They were everywhere for.

209
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 4: Hours yesterday, and as you mentioned, Carlos Palezuelas is not

210
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 4: necessarily pulled over. He was being followed by a number

211
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 4: of law enforcement in Rio Rico, which is about fifty

212
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 4: eight miles south of Tucson, about fifteen minutes from the

213
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 4: Mexican border, and he's near his home when he stops

214
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 4: the car and says, hey, why are you guys following me?

215
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,600
Speaker 4: They then they being law enforcement, detained Carlos and began

216
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 4: a search of his vehicle. They searched his house, they

217
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 4: searched his garage and by the way, Nancy search warrants.

218
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 4: They had search warrants already prepared. When they arrived at

219
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 4: Carlos house. At his residence, they bashed in the door,

220
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 4: they broke the garage door. They looked all over the place.

221
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 4: We thought we have a suspect in custody, and two

222
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 4: hours later Carlos was released.

223
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: Jessica Finn joining a senior investigative reporter us Son not

224
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:45,120
Speaker 1: only that as they law enforcement was searching the property

225
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:50,239
Speaker 1: of Carlos Palezuelos, they had hostage negotiators on the standby

226
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 1: a few blocks away. They really believed that Nancy was

227
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 1: somewhere near by, and then hopes dashed. And I don't

228
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: want to hear one bad word about their efforts. I'm

229
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: talking to you, Lopez, because they're out there beating the bushes.

230
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 1: They're trying. This guy may have fit a description and

231
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 1: may have been something about him that tipped off law enforcement,

232
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: but it was a detainment, not an arrest. They questioned him,

233
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 1: they searched the location thoroughly, and they let him go. Okay,

234
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: hold on, Jessica. Matt Lopez joining us from this jurisdiction Arizona.

235
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 1: He is a veteran criminal defense attorney. He is the

236
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 1: owner of the largest criminal defense law firm in Arizona.

237
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: You can find him at Matthew Lopez dot com. Matthew

238
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 1: much was made last night. He was detained? Is at

239
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: an arrest? Could he leave? Did he get his Miranda rights?

240
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 1: Explain detainment? Under the US Supreme Court view of it,

241
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: he was detained.

242
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 6: It's my understanding his brand rights were not read for

243
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 6: a couple of hours after this stop. If he is

244
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 6: if they're not asking, if he's not under arrest, and

245
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 6: they're not asking questions exactly relating to the incident. So

246
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 6: emphasis on under arrest. If he's free to go, they

247
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 6: don't have to read the miranda rights. So he's a

248
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 6: person of interest from my understanding, and based off the

249
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 6: video that I watched this morning, they were simply just

250
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 6: asking him questions about his identity, but mister Pazuelos claimed

251
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 6: is They asked him questions about his study for about

252
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,040
Speaker 6: two hours and then they just released him. The vehicle

253
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 6: that he was driving in is at his residence right now.

254
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 6: And from what I understand, they weren't able to connect

255
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 6: any dots relating Carlos to this incident. So I don't

256
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 6: know where why they pulled him over. I have no idea.

257
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 6: That doesn't make any sense to me, but it seems

258
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 6: to me like, at least as we stand here today,

259
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 6: he's not connected to the incident.

260
00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 1: Guys, that video of mister Palazoilos is from our friends

261
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: at CBS News. Let's take another look at him, and

262
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,880
Speaker 1: I'd like to compare him to the masked intruder at

263
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's home. Okay, look at him. He's got a mustache,

264
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: he's got to go tee. He's got a little bit

265
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:21,240
Speaker 1: of a beard. He is light but swarthy. He has

266
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 1: dark hair. Now look at this guy. Let's keep looking

267
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: at this guy, and let's look at the intruder from

268
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,680
Speaker 1: several different angles. I can see the similarity in the eyes.

269
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,719
Speaker 1: And I want to get that shot of the mask

270
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 1: where you can see somewhat of eight mustaches. There you go,

271
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,199
Speaker 1: there you go. None of these are you know, this

272
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: was not taken in a photography studio. Okay, so we're

273
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,400
Speaker 1: working with what we've got. You apparently has a little

274
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: bit of a mustache showing and a little bit of

275
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 1: what would appear to be a soul patch or a beard.

276
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 1: Now let's look at Pelazuela's again. I see why law

277
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 1: enforcement was looking at him. Okay, back to Jessica Finn,

278
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 1: joining US senior investigative reporter, the US son who's been

279
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 1: on the case since Nancy Guthrie went missing. What is

280
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 1: your version of what happened to last night? Because we're

281
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:25,119
Speaker 1: getting well, they're not necessarily divergent. There are just additional

282
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: facts in different reports. For instance, everything Dave Max said

283
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: was correct, but yet we know the hostage unit was

284
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: on stand by, a mobile hostage negotiator team was on standby,

285
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: which means they thought Nancy would be in the vicinity

286
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 1: of Palezuela's Okay, that was not meant to be. What

287
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 1: more can you tell us, Jessica Finn.

288
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it certainly looked last night like we were going

289
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 5: to possibly be bringing Nancy home overnight, and unfortunately that

290
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 5: of course didn't happen.

291
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,360
Speaker 3: From what we understand, Carlos's parents live in Tucson.

292
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 5: They live kind of in the vicinity of Nancy Guthrie,

293
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 5: So it makes sense that there's a lot of different

294
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 5: connections between him and the Tucson area that Nancy is in,

295
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 5: including that his parents lived there.

296
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 3: He is a delivery driver.

297
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 5: He drops off packages directly in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, and

298
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 5: he of course fits physically from what we can see.

299
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,679
Speaker 5: From what our eyes can tell us is he fits

300
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 5: the similarities in the description of what we see in

301
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 5: the perpetrator in that video. So clearly there was a

302
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 5: good reason that law enforcement had to connect him to

303
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 5: that area. He possibly even dropped off packages to Nancy's home. Specifically,

304
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 5: he was asked to buy the media last night and

305
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 5: interviews after he was released, did you deliver a package

306
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 5: to Nancy's home?

307
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 3: And he said, look, I don't know, I could have.

308
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 5: I may I may have, But clearly, once law enforcement

309
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 5: did a deep dive into his history and his identity

310
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 5: and his and his home that he appears to share

311
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,959
Speaker 5: with his mother, they eventually decided that he was now

312
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 5: the guy, at least not right now, and they decided

313
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 5: to release him. They had sent out the FBI last night,

314
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 5: had the SWAT team out, they had hostage negotiators out,

315
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 5: and it reached a real fever pitch, probably around eleven

316
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 5: eastern Eastern time, that it seemed like something was going

317
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 5: to happen. And of course at the end of the night,

318
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 5: by the time we all woke up in the morning,

319
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 5: it was determined that he was He was released.

320
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: Dave mac back to you, Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave

321
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: You stated something to the effect of, I don't know

322
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: why they pulled him over. Well, all right, let's examine

323
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:41,959
Speaker 1: that he is in the area where Nancy Guthrie disappeared.

324
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: He delivers packages to her neighborhood, which is a small

325
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 1: neighborhood and a reclusive neighborhood. So it's not like you

326
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: deliver packages to East fifty fourth Street in downtown Manhattan,

327
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: where there are thousands and thousands of people on one street,

328
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: so that there's that he also loosely fit the description.

329
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: So what about that, Dave mac did you take into

330
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: account that he had delivered packages routinely to that neighborhood

331
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: And wasn't it just in the last forty eight hours

332
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: we learned that delivery people, yard people, pool people, landscapers

333
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: employees were all giving buckle or buckle swabs. That's DNA, remember.

334
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 4: That absolutely, And maybe I'm misspoke. Let me point out something,

335
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 4: Nancy that the law enforcement efforts we have all followed

336
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 4: these and I thought it was amazing how quickly from

337
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 4: the time the video was released to the public and

338
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 4: the pictures that law enforcement was able to get together

339
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 4: with a search warrant for the home in Rio Rico.

340
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 4: We're talking about a search warrent that was all inclusive.

341
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,719
Speaker 4: Both ms carrs were they had prepared for this and

342
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 4: it came down very quickly, within minutes of the actual

343
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 4: video going public. Also, we know that his mother in

344
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: law in Tucson, she said that you know, officers showed

345
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 4: up at her door and they told her they being

346
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 4: law enforcement. Told Joseph Fina, this is Carlo's mother in law,

347
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 4: that somebody had given them a tip that the lady.

348
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: This is what she said. They had somebody give a

349
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 4: tip that the lady was in my house. I told

350
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 4: them you can go ahead and search my house. There's

351
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 4: nobody here. I have nothing to hide. So they, being

352
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 4: law enforcement, were able to really zero in on Carlo's

353
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 4: for multiple reasons. As you mentioned, he does look similar

354
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 4: to what we see in that video released by the FBI.

355
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: We are also learning that there has been a huge,

356
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 1: huge swell of tips being called in. In fact, the

357
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: FBI has created a unique website for Nancy Guthrie, and

358
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: we're going to put that up in just one moment,

359
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: but I want you to see what I believe, not

360
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: only the front porch video, but a plea, a heartfelt

361
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: plea from Savannah Guthrie directly to us.

362
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 8: Hi, there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just

363
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 8: share a few thoughts as we enter into another week

364
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 8: of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all,

365
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 8: thank you so much for all of the prayers and

366
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 8: the love that we have felt, my sister and brother

367
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 8: and I, and that our mom has felt, because we

368
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 8: believe that somehow, in some ways, she is feeling these

369
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 8: prayers and that God is lifting her even in this

370
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 8: moment and in the darkest place, we believe our mom

371
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 8: is still out there.

372
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: We need your help.

373
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 8: Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock trying to

374
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 8: bring her home, trying to find her.

375
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: She was taken and we don't know where.

376
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 8: And we need your help. So I'm coming on just

377
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 8: to ask you, not just for your prayers, but no

378
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 8: matter where you are, even if you're far from Tucson,

379
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 8: if you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything

380
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 8: at all that seems strange to you that you report

381
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 8: to law enforcement. We are at an hour of desperation

382
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 8: and we need your help.

383
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: She's right, this is the hour of desperation because the

384
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: ransom we believe has been paid, the deadline to pay

385
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: it has past, and if it has been paid, there

386
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: is no incentive left for the kidnapper to hand over

387
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie. A lot has been made. What happened? Was

388
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: this really a kidnapping? Was that a quote medical event

389
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: such as her having a stroke or a heart attack, Well,

390
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: her body wasn't there, so that's pretty good indicator. She

391
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: didn't fall or have a stroke or a heart attack.

392
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: Her cane left behind. Much has been made is that

393
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: a real kidnapping? But when the front porch video emerged

394
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: thanks to the FBI Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team, all

395
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: those theories were put to rest. I want to give

396
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: you that FBI website it is and we'll put up

397
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: a full screen for you to look at FBI dot

398
00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: gov slash wanted slash kidnap slash see Dah Guthrie FBI

399
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Gov wanted kidnap Nancy's dash Guthrie. There are also tip lines,

400
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: including anonymous tip lines. Okay, what can we learn from

401
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: this video? Let's take a look at it in full.

402
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: I would like to also point out to doctor Bethany

403
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: Marshall joining us for now in Psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills,

404
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker. You can see her now on

405
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: Peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall

406
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: dot com doctor Bethany. After these stills and this video

407
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: came out, the Guthrie family states they do not know

408
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: who the purp is. Now, if we could, I'd like

409
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: to see the best photo we have still photo of

410
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: the purp's face, the best still. There you go, there's that,

411
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: which to me the eyes look almost effeminate. But yet

412
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: this is a man based on the way he walks,

413
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: based on his height, which I'm going to go to

414
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: fitzgibbons on in just a moment about his height, his

415
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: shoe size, his weight, how that can be determined. But

416
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I just don't see an incentive. Everyone is

417
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: just clamoring to link the family to the kidnap. Before

418
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: we do that and he more pain upon the family.

419
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: They have stated, according to sources, that they do not

420
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: recognize this guy. Show me every steal you've got at

421
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: every angle, Dr Bethany, what do you make of the

422
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: family stating we don't know him?

423
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 9: Well, probably they do not know him. What's interesting is

424
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 9: that the guy that they pulled over last night, Carlos,

425
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 9: the public did respond in the way that Savannah wanted

426
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 9: them to respond. Savannah in the video you played earlier,

427
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 9: pleads for the public's health. This guy's pulled over because

428
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 9: the public helped. They tried to link this photograph to

429
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 9: a delivery man who was in the neighborhood. So that

430
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 9: gives me hope that there are people and homes in

431
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 9: this neighborhood who are trying to solve this crime. Now

432
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 9: this particular picture, I think it's interesting because when I

433
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 9: look at the guy's eyelids, it looks like a younger person,

434
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 9: you know, his his eyelids don't fold over the like

435
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 9: you see with older people. His eyebrows look somewhat like

436
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 9: tweezed or thin.

437
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: To me.

438
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 9: That's maybe why you think that this picture is effeminate.

439
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 9: It could be because the ski mask is sort of

440
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 9: over his forehead. But I would also wonder if this

441
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 9: is somebody who engages in the type of grooming where

442
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 9: they like to have, you know, their their eye their

443
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 9: eyebrows waxed or thinned, which might give them an effeminate look.

444
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: Let me see, Bethany. Okay, Bethany, thank you, because you

445
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: just crystallized for me why I thought at the very

446
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: beginning when I just saw the face, I stated, could

447
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: this be a woman? Because the lashes and the brows,

448
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: It's just exactly what you said. Let's look at it again.

449
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: It's the thin nature of the eyebrows. If we could

450
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: zoom there you go. Thank you, Control Room. But the

451
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: reality is that may be because of the sche mask

452
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: pulling the eyebrows and the eyes upward. But yes, the lashes,

453
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: the eyebrows do give an effeminate appearance. But now control room.

454
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: If you could give me the video of him walking forward.

455
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: When he walks forward, it's totally a guy. It's totally

456
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: a guy. Look at the Yeah, that's a man. That

457
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: is a man. Plus and fitz Gibbons will explain how

458
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: they can measure, and they think is between five eleven

459
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: and six one or six feet tall, all right. He

460
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: also looks bulked up like he's got on several layers

461
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: of clothing under there. So I'm looking at this and

462
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: look at that stuffed backpack. Once you say I'm doctor Bethank.

463
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: There's nothing effeminate at all about the way he walks.

464
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 9: Yes, but there are a lot of men out there

465
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 9: who don't walk in an effeminate manner, but they like

466
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 9: to groom themselves in an effeminate manner. So I would

467
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 9: just cast a wider net and think about men who

468
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 9: might you.

469
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: Know, match that appearance.

470
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 9: Now, this backpack is interesting to me, Nancy, because I've

471
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 9: been fascinated from the get go by the fact that

472
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 9: the blood trail stops on the doorstep, which tells me

473
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 9: that whoever took her had some kind of a compression

474
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 9: cloth something that they used to stem the bleeding, otherwise

475
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 9: the blood droplets would continue out to the driveway or

476
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 9: maybe there was a carway. So that has made me

477
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 9: think about you know, who is attending to her medical needs?

478
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 9: You know, she couldn't walk more than fifty feet. She

479
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 9: has medication that she needs, which I have guessed from

480
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 9: the beginning is blood blood pressure medication because she has

481
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 9: a pacemaker. So who was attending to her medical needs

482
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 9: in that house? And would that particular person know to

483
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 9: bring some kind of a compression or a cloth or

484
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 9: a bandage or something to stem the bleeding?

485
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay, my reason?

486
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: Did you have any id?

487
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Do you know who nanny from our friends a CBS.

488
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: This guy is a driver, He is a delivery person.

489
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: He was detained. That it's not like Carlos Palazuela's and

490
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: he was released. They held me, as somebody has been

491
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: watching Law and Order. They held me against my will. Yes,

492
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: and they didn't read me my rights, okay up until

493
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: two hours later, so they did read the rights. My

494
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: wrist is all effing swollen from the handcuffs. Let's see

495
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: him on video. I want to see the swelling. He's

496
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: talking about did you have any idea? No, Okay, hold on,

497
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: here comes the hands. I think he's going to hold

498
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: him up. I think it's going to happen. I think, oh,

499
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: well to you, Matthew Lopez. His hands are working. He

500
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have any permanent injury. He can't show

501
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: me any bruises, any redness, any swelling, any scratches, any anything.

502
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: But he does know enough to whind Hello, Nancy Guthrie

503
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: could be dead and he's whining he didn't get his

504
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: rights for two hours. Please. Yeah.

505
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 6: A lot of people think when they called my office

506
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 6: that failure to read miranda rights are sort of a

507
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 6: get out of jail free card, and they don't understand it.

508
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 6: It's more complex than that, And you're absolutely right. There's

509
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 6: got to be two elements. It's called custodial interrogation. Whether

510
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 6: or not somebody is under arrest and they're interrogated him

511
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 6: about questions relating to this incident. Now I can understand

512
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 6: where he's coming from. If he had no involvement and

513
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 6: he's getting pulled over or he was being followed and

514
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 6: then he decides to pull over, is they have warrant,

515
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 6: they execute the warrant, they houses search as cars. So

516
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 6: you know, if I was money in my own business

517
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 6: as it were, and the FBI came and approached me,

518
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 6: and they were accusing me of possibly being connected or

519
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 6: asking me questions about being connected with the murder. And

520
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 6: in this case, Carlow said that he's never even heard

521
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 6: of Savannah Guthrie. I would be taken aback. And so

522
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 6: you know, he may be whining, and I'm sure he's

523
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 6: not downplaying the severity of a murder, right, but in

524
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 6: his world, he was caught off guard and he doesn't

525
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 6: understand why he was pulled over. And this is also

526
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 6: he's in front of the camera, so this is his

527
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 6: opportunity to really really to project.

528
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: Bringing out Okay, I know the words. They did everything right,

529
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: they did nothing wrong. Okay, he did not need his

530
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: miranda rights read to him because he wasn't under arrest.

531
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: They ultimately did read his miranda rights to him needlessly.

532
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: Matthew Lopez, this ain't the RITZ. This is a kidnapping,

533
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: possibly a homicide investigation. So I'll circle back to the

534
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: pampered federal visitor who is now whining that his wrists

535
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: hurt but can't show me any injury. Hold that thought,

536
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: Lopez because joining me right now, and he is on

537
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: his way to a scene, so I want to go

538
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: to him very quickly. Lee and Neubecker joining a cybersecurity

539
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: and digital forensic expert now the CEO of Enigma Forensics. Lee,

540
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Okay, there's been a

541
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: lot of speculation and I was listening to Cash Bettel

542
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: weston I and he was very circumspect as he must

543
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: be explaining how those images from Nancy Guthrie's report were obtained.

544
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you my lay person understanding of

545
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: what happened. What happened is that Nancy did not have

546
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: a subscription to Nest. She had a Nest security cam.

547
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: But the FBI was able to go into Google Nest

548
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: is a Google product, into their vast, vast network of

549
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: stored items and mind that and somehow amazingly cast cellular

550
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: analysis survey team found her home and her Nest and

551
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: got the images. That's how that happened. Now, I know

552
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: that you're on your way to a scene, so just

553
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: tell me is that correct?

554
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 7: Basically, Nancy, remember when director Comy put a block on

555
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 7: his camera on his laptop. That's a clear indicator. We

556
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 7: should all assume that anytime we're in front of a

557
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 7: camera that those feeds are going somewhere. We may not

558
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 7: get access to them. But to assume that our government

559
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 7: doesn't get those feeds, no, that's questionable. I can't say

560
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 7: with authority on that because that's all classified information. But

561
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 7: it's something that.

562
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: Is out there, right, Hey, Lee, don't move very quickly

563
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: back to Lopez and to get the information from Google,

564
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: the parent company of Nest and you can see very

565
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: clearly on the video it says Nest right at the top.

566
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: It's not a leap of fate to figure out where

567
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: it came from. You can either get a warrant for

568
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: Google for them to allow the search by the FBI.

569
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: They can involuntarily allow the search. That can be a

570
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: court order for the search. So there's many ways for

571
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 1: the FBI to have gotten that information from Google. Do

572
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: you agree or disagree?

573
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 6: I agree with that, and unclear right now whether or

574
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 6: not Google on its own dubulteous information or they were

575
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 6: ordered by the courts and the FBI to d bulge information.

576
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 6: But my thought would be more answers are coming in

577
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 6: the days to come. If it took this amount of

578
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 6: time to get the or the recording from this nest

579
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 6: doorbell camera. My thought would be the FBI is going

580
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 6: to start getting more and more information the same way

581
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 6: from the neighborhood cameras, and once they get that information,

582
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 6: then we're starting to the pieces are going to start

583
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 6: falling together. We're going to see a car in the front,

584
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 6: We're going to see other people around. So I think

585
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 6: this is going to be the tip of the iceberg.

586
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 6: And within the next week, because of the release of

587
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 6: this evidence, we're going to see more.

588
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 7: We're going to have a better idea as to what happened.

589
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 7: Then now we don't know what's going on behind the

590
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 7: scenes because there was a nine second phone call made

591
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 7: to a family member of the Guthries.

592
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: At this point, put yourself into the mind of the kidnapper.

593
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: I've made a mistique and that I chose a medically

594
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: fragile person and she died on me when I was

595
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: getting her out.

596
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 7: Of the house.

597
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: Yes, there was a setback last night, but all is

598
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: not lost. All is not lost. There's a huge misconception

599
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 1: that bitcoin cannot be traced. Nothing could be further from

600
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: the truth. Lee Neubecker is with us the CEO of

601
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: Enigma Forensics, cybersecurity digital forensics expert. Okay, block chain analysis.

602
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: There have been many, many cases created by the FBI,

603
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: by DOJ, by the irs where bitcoin has been successfully

604
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: traced and Billy is that b that's b as in brother.

605
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: Billions of dollars and billions of dollars worth of bitcoin

606
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: have been recovered. And one case I like to talk

607
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: about is Jong He Jong. I believe it's z h

608
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: o u n G was defrauding entities on the dark Web,

609
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: specifically Silk Road, and he was transferring bitcoin from one

610
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: wallet to the next. Think of it like this, I'm

611
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: just a layperson. I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the expert.

612
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: But I think of it as someone who creates a

613
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: shell corporation like a LLC and they funnel money into

614
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: it and it's a fake name. Okay, let's just pretend

615
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: it's Lee Newbecker LLC, and then they transfer that into

616
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: Matt Lopez LLC. And none of them mean any they're

617
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: just names that they have filed with the Secretary of State.

618
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: Then it goes to Bethany Marshall Psychoalyst, LLC and Brian

619
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons LLC and Jessica Finn and Dave Matt and this

620
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: and that, and finally to the end, you've gone through

621
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: so many you've lost the trail or somebody that creates

622
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: an email and then another fake email based on that

623
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: fake email, and down and down and down and down.

624
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: That's really how bitcoin is hidden. You just have to

625
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: follow the block chain analysis. And it's called block chain

626
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: because the transactions when you look at it, it looks

627
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: like it's entered into a block on a like a

628
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: Google dot a shared Google doc is what it looks like.

629
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: And you the block is a chain that block to

630
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: that block, to that block to that block. So you

631
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: do a block chain analysis and you basically follow the money. Now,

632
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have a much better way to explain it,

633
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: hit it.

634
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 7: I think you did a great job. Kind of For

635
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 7: those of you that research your ancestry or genealogy, it's

636
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 7: very much like that. You know you're tracing the source

637
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 7: parent and you can go back very far. But the

638
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 7: way the blockchain works, you have an entity that has

639
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 7: a wallet and is authoritative, they do a transaction. Well,

640
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 7: that transaction then gets distributed downstream, much like you know,

641
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 7: going back to the first couple that was born on

642
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 7: earthed and so you have parents and you have to

643
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 7: just keep tracing it. Now, the government has an advantage

644
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 7: because those of you that think Tour is anonymous network,

645
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 7: while sitting on the Tour network are many government servers

646
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 7: that intercept and collect information along the way. So by

647
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 7: identifying the wallet ID and doing tedious tracing, eventually you

648
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 7: can go back to a source and you have an

649
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 7: IP address, which is like a telephone number for computers,

650
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 7: and taking the energy to follow it all the way

651
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 7: back to the initial source, they can find things out.

652
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: Now, hold on, you mentioned the Tour network. That is

653
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: basically a free It's an open source system that allows

654
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: anonymous communications and it routes Internet traffic through a global

655
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: volunteer operated network. That's what it is. Is kind of

656
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: like an open network like Onion routing. It's encrypted three times,

657
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: sent through three random volunteer operated modes, and it goes

658
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: on and on and on. Is designed for privacy. You

659
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: mentioned the Tour network, correct, yes.

660
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 7: And to think that some of those computers on that

661
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 7: network aren't our own governments is you know, kind of foolish. So,

662
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 7: you know, anyone that's in that chain can intercept information

663
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 7: because the wallet eyed is transferred, the origin, the original

664
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 7: IP address, and so on. So you know, it makes

665
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 7: sense that our government would want to be part of

666
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 7: the tour network and probably very much all over it

667
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 7: so that they can intercept and stop crime, prevent terrorism,

668
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 7: and trace, you know, counterfeiting my clothes and so on.

669
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 1: You know, just think of the I R. S Neebecker,

670
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: all right, when al Capone couldn't be caught for murder,

671
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: the IRS got him bam done. Don't mess with them.

672
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: You want to tell me if a thief can figure

673
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: out how to do bitcoin and use it for criminal purposes,

674
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: that the I R s can't figure out how to

675
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: thwart that, Oh yes they can. So when people say

676
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: lost forever, it's not. The trail is not lost forever.

677
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 1: The problem is when it is transferred, if it is

678
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: transferred to another country that has no or low bitcoin regulation,

679
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: because say we go to that country and what are

680
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 1: we going to subpoena if they haven't kept the record,

681
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: see what I mean? But tell me the fly in

682
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: the ointment is when they try to cash out the bitcoin.

683
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 7: Explain well, oftimes people will go to a convenience store,

684
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 7: circle case seven eleven, whatever whatever will allow for conversion

685
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 7: of the currency. And when that happens, make no mistake,

686
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 7: the cameras within there are recording that.

687
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 1: So put him up. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, Nellie,

688
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you think they're going to go run

689
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: over to the Krogers to get six million dollars worth

690
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: of bitcoin at no, but you are right. There's actually

691
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 1: a bitcoin ATMs out there. They're common in the States,

692
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: not necessarily elsewhere where. What will they do with the

693
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: money if and when they get it the bitcoin? What

694
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: will they'll transfer it and transfer it and transfer it

695
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: that wallet, that wallet, that wallet, that wallet, and then

696
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: on to another country and then try to convert it.

697
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 7: Very possibly. So oftentimes the people cashing out are not

698
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 7: the people behind it, but someone connected to them. So

699
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 7: it's the diligent process of finding communities and they'll find

700
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 7: it eventually. If they don't spend the money, it's going

701
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 7: to be difficult, but you know, people, people have needs

702
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 7: for money, and I think it's just a matter of time.

703
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: That's when they're going to get caught. I think is

704
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: if they try to and I hope it doesn't take

705
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: that long if they try to get to transfer the

706
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: bitcoin to money, especially if they do it in the US. Agree, disagree.

707
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 7: It's much more difficult to trace the activity once it

708
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 7: leaves country and goes to a country that doesn't cooperate

709
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 7: with SWIFT or or other anti money maring initiatives, that

710
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 7: the tree goes. All right, I hope to get the

711
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 7: associated and I'm done.

712
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: CBS News Catch and Release. That's what happened last night.

713
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: A guy was pulled over thinking he matched a description

714
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: of a p on the front porch of Nancy Guthrie's home.

715
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't him, straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons, joining us.

716
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: He is the director of Operations USP, a nationwide security

717
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigators around the world looking

718
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: for missing people. Let me ask you at this juncture,

719
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: what do we do now?

720
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

721
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 2: I think what we saw with this catch and release Nancy,

722
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: and you know this relates to what we do now,

723
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 2: is that they most likely found that vehicle.

724
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 7: So I think what you know you probably had is

725
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 7: that they saw his vehicle.

726
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: He's a delivery driver in and out of that neighborhood,

727
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: in and out of that area. So I think in

728
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 2: the coming hours and days, we're going to see more

729
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: activity from law enforcement because they're narrowing down a list

730
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 2: of vehicles that were in and around that area, and

731
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: they're starting to actually find that people associated with those vehicles.

732
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace Brian has Gibbons, I think

733
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: a major piece of evidence is the clothing. Now, our

734
00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: staff crime stories during the night looked up outfits, similar backpacks,

735
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: similar Vess jackets, specifically the ski mask all night long.

736
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: Let's take a look at what they found. I think

737
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: this may be very helpful. Take a look at the backpack.

738
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: Now interesting if you look, this is an Ozark trail

739
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: and all of these are found at Walmart. So if

740
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: you look at the reflection, the reflective strips, there you go.

741
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: The backpack to me, is easily identifiable. Okay, let's move

742
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: to the jacket. The jacket has a unique zip up

743
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 1: the front that shines in the dark. I'm not sure

744
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: if it's a full zip. I think that it is

745
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: as it is picture to the left, but I get

746
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: and it's got a hood. I guarantee you that the

747
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: feds are doing exactly what we're doing right now. But

748
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: most interesting to me is the ski mask because the

749
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: scheme mask. Let's see it close up. There you go,

750
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: that's a great shot. On the right the sche masks.

751
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: See the vertical ridges in it. It's gray in color.

752
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: It's a ball and clava, that's what it is. And

753
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: you've got the stitching around the eyes. And remember you've

754
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 1: got to take into account that it's nighttime and you've

755
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: got a light shining on the perp, So how can

756
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: that be traced? By the way he's got in his

757
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: mouth what we believe to be a bite light. It's

758
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: often used by aviators that need their hands and a

759
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: cockpit is very common. There are multiple types of them.

760
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: That's the bite that you see with the four orange

761
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: dots on either side. Brian has gibbons. How can this

762
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 1: be done? How can these items be traced?

763
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've seen other web sleuthes Nancy in the

764
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, internet community, have also identified the type of

765
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 2: ants he's wearing, the shoes, all of these items. And

766
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: this is why the FBI has released this video is

767
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: there may be a person connected to this individual that

768
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 2: recognizes these items that they've seen, you know, an associate

769
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: or someone they know that's had these items in their

770
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 2: possession that wears these clothes.

771
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 7: So that's why this is so valuable in generating leads.

772
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: Straight back to Jessica Fan Jessica, what if anything is

773
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: happening at this hour?

774
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 2: You know?

775
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 5: One of the things that I don't think that we've

776
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 5: really got to touch on is specifically the details of

777
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 5: what the FBI was doing on the ground in and

778
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 5: around Annie Guthrie's home. From what I'm seeing, there was

779
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 5: a lot of door knocking from the FBI agents, and

780
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 5: these door knocks included the FBI agents of course asking

781
00:50:58,640 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 5: have you seen anything?

782
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 3: Have you heard anything? That kind of general aquery.

783
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 5: But the other interesting thing they're asking for is they're

784
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 5: asking for everybody's surveillance cameras.

785
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: In and around Annie Guthrie's home. And now Annie and

786
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 3: Nancy are.

787
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 5: Ten minutes away from each other, So why they're having

788
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 5: this team of about ten FBI agents going door to

789
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 5: door in and around Annie Guthrie's home asking everybody for

790
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 5: their surveillance footage is really really interesting and it brings

791
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 5: up a lot of questions as to what they're trying

792
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 5: to narrow in on, and it might go back to

793
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 5: what we're talking about with Fitz Gibbons, saying that maybe

794
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 5: there's zeroing in on the actual vehicle that the perpetrator

795
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 5: was driving.

796
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: Brian As Gibbons, I know you heard what Jessica Finn

797
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: just said, and she's right. Last night, as the arrest or,

798
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: excuse me, the detainment the delivery driver was occurring. The

799
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: whole team was back out at Annie Guthrie's home and

800
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: they were very very meticulously going through desert brush the

801
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 1: edge of people's yards, really looking in shed speaking to people,

802
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: showing them pictures. But also I want to ask you

803
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: about that. The family again states they do not recognize

804
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: the person on Nancy Guthrie's porch. But the dichotomy, fitz Gibbons,

805
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: I'd like you to address that. This guy bumbling around

806
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: like WHOA what there's a camera. I think I'll put

807
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: leaves on it. Okay, there's the seemingly idiocy of what

808
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: he's doing compared to the almost eloquent wording of the

809
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: ransom note, clearly written by someone with a great command

810
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: of the English language. And we're many people are mocking

811
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: this guy, but he has managed to elude authorities day eleven.

812
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: So the dichotomy is stunning, which leads me to think Brian,

813
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 1: that there are at least two people involved.

814
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, we assume a certain level of

815
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: sophistication based on the reported eloquence of the ransom demand,

816
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 2: and that indicates, you know, we can't translate that in

817
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 2: down to the foot soldier who was actually walking up

818
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: to missus Guthrie's threshold, right, So that sophistication could be

819
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: present for the person doing this. And by the way,

820
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 2: I'll say again, the ransom note sent to TMZ and

821
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: this action.

822
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 7: May be completely separate.

823
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so we have to keep that in mind.

824
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: But the sophistication whoa, whoa, whoa.

825
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: Whoa, back it up? Would you repeat that very slowly?

826
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: So we have to you know, zoom out.

827
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: And keep in mind that the ransom demand sent to

828
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: TMZ in the local Tucson news stations may be an

829
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 2: opera tunis trying to cash in on this terrible event,

830
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 2: and it may be disconnected from this individual that actually

831
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 2: took Nancy from the home.

832
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 1: No, we have to follow that through to where it ends.

833
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 1: You can't just throw it out there and accept us

834
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 1: to swallow it, hook line and sink her. So you're saying,

835
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: let's just pretend for the moment that the ransom note

836
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: is not connected to the porch guy. So then why

837
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: did the porch guy take Nancy Guthrie. He didn't kill

838
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: her on the scene. Like a typical burglar or robber

839
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: or rapist, they come in, they take what they want,

840
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: they may rape someone, and then they kill them and

841
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 1: leave them and run like hell because they don't want

842
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: to get caught. So she is kidnapped. She was kidnapped,

843
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 1: no question. So you're saying they kidnapped her for nothing,

844
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: so what to keep her in their basemite saying that.

845
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: In either event, right, what I'm saying, the position I'm

846
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: taking is the porch guy is not the one who's

847
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: responsible for writing the ransom demand. He's either controlled by

848
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 2: somebody and he's a foot soldier executing this operation, or

849
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: it's disconnected. But in either event, this is it's very

850
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: unlikely that this person who's pulling up weeds to throw

851
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 2: them over a ring camera is the one who orchestrated

852
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 2: ransom demands being sent to TMZ in local news affiliates

853
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: in Tucson.

854
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: Understood, but you're not having your cake and aiding it too.

855
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: You can't have it sitting on the plate and in

856
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: your stomach. No, So you said they're disconnected, and then

857
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: you said that the porch guy's working at the behest

858
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: of the author of the ransom note. That means they

859
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: are connected. If they're working in tandem, then they're connected.

860
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: I could see that, But I do not say that

861
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: the porch guy just took her randomly for no reason.

862
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: It had to be for ransom. So you're saying the

863
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: porch guy took her for ransom, but that the note

864
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: to TMZ could be a fake. Well, then if the

865
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: porch guy took her for ransom, then where's the ransom demand? See,

866
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: you know, you got to follow this thing through to

867
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: its logical conclusion.

868
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, in as I was saying, in either way, it's

869
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: very unlikely that the porch guy himself had anything to

870
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: do with orchestrating that ransom demand. That this is just

871
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: merely a foot soldier executing this operation.

872
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Miss

873
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please call the FBI toll free eight hundred

874
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four, or if you

875
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: want to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two

876
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: seven four six y three we remember American Hero Patrol

877
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: Officer Jonah Hernandez of Las Crucius Police Department, killed in

878
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: the line of duty just thirty five years old, leaving

879
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: behind a wife turned widow and two boys without a father.

880
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: American Hero Patrol Officer Jonah Fernandez Nancy Gray signing off

881
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: goodbye friend.