1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying this podcast, and I hope you 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: have been, We've got great news. We've just launched a 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: brand new merk store. Go to tangodi dot com slash 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: store to find there Are No Girls on the Internet. Mugs, stickers, magnets, 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: clothing and inclusive sizes, notebooks and more, just in time 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: for the holidays. That's Tangoti dot com slash store. T 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: A n g O t I dot com slash Store. 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet. 11 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Almost fourteen years ago, a court deemed pop icon Britney 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Spears unable to take care of herself, placing her in 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: a conservatorship that stripped her up control of nearly every 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: aspect of her life, including her finances, her ability to 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: drive a car, or use an a t M, or 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: make decisions about her own body. Last month, a judge 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: rule to end that conservatorship that Brittany and her fans 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: have long maintained was abusive and traumatic. Brittany spoke up 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: against the conservatorship to a judge. Here's what she had 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: to say, I truly believe this conservatorship is abusive and 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: that we can sit here all day and say, oh, 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: conservatorships are here to help people. Britney's released from the 23 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: conservatorship was sparked in part by the Free Brittany movement, 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: spearheaded by Britney supervan Megan Radford. The movement began in 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: two thousand nine and aimed to draw attention to the 26 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: singer's conservatorship. Largely organized online, the movement was made up 27 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 1: of fans and advocates from all over the world pushing 28 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: to end what they said was a predatory conservatorship, including 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: a change dot org petition for Britney's right to hire 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: her own lawyer that got over two hundred and fifty 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: thou signatures. In Brittany's first Instagram post after her conservatorship 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: was voided, she wrote, the Free Brittany movement, you guys rock. Honestly, 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: my voice was muted and threatened for so long and 34 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to speak up or say anything. I 35 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: honestly think you guys saved my life in a way. 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: But even though Free Brittany was a pretty successful movement 37 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: largely organized online, it hasn't really gotten the same kind 38 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: of attention as other online movements. I sat down with 39 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Melissa Ryan, friend of the show, online organizing expert and 40 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: CEO and editor of Control all Right to lead a 41 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: popular newsletter dissecting culture, extremism, technology and the Internet. The Melissa, 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: you have been covering and following the Free Britney movement 43 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: for a while, and I think that you have been 44 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: covering it with a seriousness that I think it took 45 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: a while for other folks to get to what initially 46 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: attracted you to to this movement, Like, why were you 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: following it so seriously? Well? I started, I mean, I 48 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: think I was aware of it for a while, and 49 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: I thought of it just sort of like, oh, a 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: thing that music fans are doing and is somewhat interesting. 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: But the New York Times documentary was really it was 52 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: staggering to me both that this had been going on 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: so long that they were able to get folks on, 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: so many folks on the record, but also that this 55 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: online movement had been growing and building for some time 56 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: and wasn't necessarily being taken seriously. Um and there was 57 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, they were clearly able to generate a lot 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: of press stories. They were getting attention from other celebrities, 59 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: but there just wasn't much sort of conversation among the 60 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: serious people who love to talk about digital and tech things. Um. 61 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: And then when Spears did her first testimony in court, 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: a couple of things became obvious. One was her fans 63 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: had clearly you know, this movement and her fans had 64 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: clearly been part of what gave her the courage to 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: speak up, uh and to demand to be heard in 66 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: a public forum. But too that the organizing had had worked. Uh, 67 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: that these folks, you know, whatever they were trying to get, 68 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: they had they had scored just a huge win because 69 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: none of this I think would have happened without their 70 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: years and years of of rallying online. Um. And still 71 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: they were sort of treated in the press like, oh, 72 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: these conspiracy theorist fans or these folks that have you know, 73 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: no life, And it was very disconcerting because, uh, this 74 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: was a huge win. I mean, you and I both 75 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: work in politics. You don't get wins like this like 76 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: they got. Absolutely. I mean I really kind of see 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: it as one of those classic stories that we cover 78 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: a lot on this show. Or at first, people are 79 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: dismissed as you know, Oh they're crazy, they don't know 80 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: what they're talking about, all of that, and then they're 81 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of proven, right, um. And I feel like the 82 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: Free Britney movement is one of those stories where the 83 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: most vocal folks were dismissed. Why do you think that is? Like, 84 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: why was it so easy to discount these people? I 85 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: think because a lot of her fans were women, and 86 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: I think because a lot of her fans were lgbt 87 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: Q um, and I think there was the perception that 88 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them were very young, because we think 89 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 1: of music fans being young. Although you know Brittany, Brittany 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: is forty now where I think she turned forty last week, 91 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: so and stands to reason that her fans are probably 92 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: not as you know. I doubt there are many teenagers 93 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: that are listening to to Britney Spears, except in the 94 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: context of like their parents nine D Station. Maybe I 95 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: could be wrong. I do think there's this perception that 96 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: the people who who are rallying around her and who 97 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: are really intensely interested in her are just teeny boppers online. 98 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: And I think that speaks to how we belittle and 99 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: cast aside people who are marginalized as you know, just 100 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: teenagers online or just a bunch of women collecting online 101 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: as opposed to this movement that really was lifting up 102 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: questions about you know, disability justice, reproductive justice. I see 103 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: this story as hitting so many intersections of the work 104 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: that you and I do as progressive organizers, you know, 105 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: lifting up you know, if somebody like Britney Spears can 106 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: be mistreated in this way, what does that say for 107 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: other people who might have disabilities? What is it say 108 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: for other folks who want body autonomy and control over 109 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: the reproductive choices? Um? You know that that the second 110 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: New York Times documentary that came out about Britney Spears, Um, 111 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: for me, was a real tech story about the surveillance 112 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: apparatus that controlled her in her home. You know, I 113 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: think it's really fascinating how it took kind of a 114 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: while for folks to get on board with talking about 115 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: this story, um in a way that really highlighted those 116 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: important issues. Yeah. I think it would be interesting to 117 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: dig into how folks who participated in this at various levels, 118 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: how her story resonated with them, whether it was the 119 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: conservative ship angle, whether it was the reproductive freedom angle, 120 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: whether it was the way that women so often get dismissed, 121 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: or there's when women get so much, you know, access 122 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: to capital and power, they're almost always efforts to try 123 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: to take it away from them. Because I am guessing 124 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, it's not just that they 125 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: like Britney Spears music, but they saw something over they 126 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: related to something that was happening. In twenty nineteen, Britney's Graham, 127 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: a podcast dedicated to deep dives and close readings into 128 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: Britney Spears instagram posts, received a voicemail from a pair 129 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: legal who said he was connected to Britney's Conservatorship. According 130 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: to him, Britney was forced into a mental health facility 131 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: against her will. This created a firestorm of new support 132 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: for ending the conservatorship. These you know, women who had 133 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: started this podcast devoted to to Britney's Instagram, which I 134 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: totally get. I now follow Britney's Instagram and I love 135 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: that it's like a combination of her dancing and middle 136 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: aged mom memes. I I don't know, I just I 137 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: spend so much time on Britney's Instagram. Now it's amazing. 138 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: Just if we're gonna have that little tangent like I 139 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: wish I had known about it years ago. Um, but 140 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, and that they were you know, because they 141 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: had this podcast. You know, someone trusted them enough to 142 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: to leave them this voice meal saying you know, I 143 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: used to work for this law firm and something that's 144 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: happening to her isn't right. Um. And just that they 145 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: were able to build that much trust with people who 146 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: were in her orbit just by you know, being fans 147 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: and the content they were creating. It's fascinating to me, 148 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: it really is. And I'm I've been following her on 149 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: Instagram for a while and I love it. I love 150 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: her spinning dance moves, love it. And even after the 151 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: conservatorship has been lifted, just she's using her Instagram to 152 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: document these little things that I take for granted, like 153 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: that she made a post about getting to have an 154 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: iPad and how that how free that made her feel. 155 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: And I think I think it does an interesting job 156 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: of illustrating what, you know, what the abuse of people 157 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: who have disabilities can look like, where it's like the 158 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: little things that she didn't get to have access to, 159 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: didn't get to just be able to be on her iPad. 160 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: And I think you can really put a a face 161 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: or an image on these issues or withdraw cash from 162 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: an a t M. That was one of them where 163 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: she talked about being able to get from an A 164 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: t M. And it's just sort of you're so happy 165 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: that she has that now, but it's like, oh my god, 166 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: thirteen years of not being able to live as an 167 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: adult while you were earning the money to pay all 168 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: of your captors. Let's hit quick break out her. Back 169 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: in the final days of Britney Spears's conservatorship, something strange 170 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: started to happen. Extremist right wing lawmakers like Florida Congressional 171 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: Representative Matt gets started speaking out on her behalf. Matt 172 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: gets Pull, in the middle of an ongoing sex trafficking investigation, 173 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: spoke at an in person Free Brittany rally. I really 174 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: didn't understand what was happening, but Melissa says, extremists co 175 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: opting cultural moments for their own agendas is nothing new. 176 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: One of the things that you really did a nice 177 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: job of pointing out is this weird thing that happened 178 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: where at the height of the Free Britney movement, when 179 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: there was all this momentum, we saw all of these 180 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: right wing far right extremists and trolls. I guess I 181 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: would say co opting it. There was this time where 182 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: Matt gets was speaking at a Free Brittany rally and rally, 183 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: what do you like, what do you think was going 184 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: on with that? Like? What was happening? That was something 185 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: I were seeing that in my new speed and being 186 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: like my brain can't even comprehend what this is. I 187 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: need to just move on, Like what what was that? 188 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: I mean? I think I tend to think of Matt 189 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: Gates as a professional troll and sometime as congressman, Like 190 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: once in a while he shows up to work at Congress, 191 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: but most of the time he seems to be like 192 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: where can I get the most attention for myself? Which 193 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: is why he like goes to Wyoming to campaign against 194 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: wiz Cheney and uh, you know, the Free Brittany rally. 195 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: And so I think he just saw a moment and 196 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: was like, how can I exploit it to get attention 197 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: for myself? Um? And I think more broadly, that's sort 198 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: of what the far right does. They don't really build culture. 199 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: They steal culture. Um. You know. It's like you see 200 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: they try to appropriate everything from Peppe the Frog from 201 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: you see them with Karen and with free Brittany, they 202 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: saw an opportunity. Um. And one of the most amusing 203 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: things to me was when her her lawyer, Um, we 204 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: should definitely talk about the lawyer too, because that guy 205 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: just looks like Atticus Finch, Like they just pulled him 206 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: out of Central Casting. But when her lawyer was talking 207 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: after the conservatorship ended, and he very specifically said, everyone 208 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: from the far right to the left is supporting Brittany now. 209 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: And I do appreciate how her lawyer like took advantage 210 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: of the fact that, you know, everybody and their mother 211 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: was sort of glomming onto his client. Yeah. Do you 212 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: do you think that we're gonna see more of that 213 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing? Like? Is that? Is that a common 214 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: tactic of extremists just whatever conversation is happening. How can 215 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: I jump into that conversation and co opted for my own, 216 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: you know, my own fucked up agenda. Yeah, I mean 217 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: you see it a lot. And again, like they're these folks, 218 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: especially ones who are elected too. I think, you know, 219 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm especially obsessed with like these extremists who have managed 220 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: to get themselves elected to office. They don't really have 221 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: any interest in serving their constituencies. They really are like 222 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: constantly auditioning for Fox News for Trump to try to 223 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: create viral moments for themselves. So, you know, I think 224 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green was another one who all of a 225 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: sudden cared about free Brittany. Um. There was a congressman 226 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: in South Carolina who did um a free Brittney bill 227 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: about reproductive about not being able to force someone to 228 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: have birth control, probably not realizing that, I know, I know, 229 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, dude, you're so close so clothes, 230 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: you have no idea. Um, But yeah, I mean you're 231 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: gonna see a lot of that with pop culture molds, 232 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: and we've been seeing it. I mean, how many movies 233 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: that star women and people of color have the right 234 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: freaked out about? Um? You know you see that with 235 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: with so much culture, and again, like they're they're too 236 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: lazy and too not creative to create their own cultures, 237 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: so when it comes to culture, like they're always going 238 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: to try to steal it. Yeah. That's something I've really 239 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: been stuck on, is the way that pop culture and 240 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: things that we used to think of as like you know, diversions, 241 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: how that is kind of become a new battle because 242 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: I won't say new battlefield, but just another battlefield to 243 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: have these wars play out on and then to have 244 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: people try to make a name for themselves. Like I 245 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: think about the whole controversy around the movie Cuties, things 246 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: like that, where we're no longer having conversations about the film, 247 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: the art, whatever. It's just a proxy for people to 248 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: co opt this conversation and to make sure that the 249 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: only chatter around it is in bad. I think there's 250 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: such an anger on the right because culturally, you know, 251 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: politically and in terms of raw political power, they are winning. 252 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: They're winning big time. I don't think there would be 253 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: any debate there. But in terms of pop culture they're losing, 254 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: I think, worse than they've ever lost. I mean, if 255 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: you look at uh, you know, all of these entertainment conglomerates, 256 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: they're working hard to have more diverse voices. You're seeing 257 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: more writers of color, more casts of color. You know, 258 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: we're not where we need to be, but it's certainly 259 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: better than you know, when you and I were young people, 260 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: and they're just not able to create the same sort 261 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: of pop culture moments the way that they have been 262 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: with like if you think back to like the Super 263 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: Bowl with jannat Jackson, if you think the things that 264 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: the Parent Television Council would get upset about, you know, 265 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: it's just very hard to get folks to care. And 266 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: corporate America has figured out, for better or worse, there's 267 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: good and bad to this, but they have figured out 268 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: that more diversity and more inclusion makes them more money 269 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: because they're reaching more audiences. So the right is just 270 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: not going to have that mass media power that they 271 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: have been used to having, and they don't have the 272 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: ability to influence conversation through mass media the way they 273 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: have in the past. That's such an interesting point. I 274 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: could see a lot of folks on the right. Yeah, 275 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: that the that the understandable reaction to that is rage, Like, like, 276 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't have the influence in this space I used to, 277 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: so I'm going to rail against it or co opted 278 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: if I can. It's it's all so disingenuous, and it's like, 279 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: as you said, it's not it's not creating culture. It's 280 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: not it's not creating culture to co opt another movement. 281 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: It's not creating culture to you know, turn a piece 282 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: of film or a piece of art or a television 283 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: show into a proxy war for your you know, rage 284 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: to play out in It's it's in the absence of 285 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: creating culture. I feel this is all they have. Yeah, 286 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: kind of sad when you put it that way. It 287 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: is sad, and I actually don't think we recognize enough 288 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: just how badly the right is losing the culture war. 289 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: And again it's because they have so much power politically. 290 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting disconnect and it'll be interesting to 291 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: see how it plays out. Yeah. So, I guess one 292 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: of my last questions for you is, as an online 293 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: organizer and somebody who cares about the Internet, are there 294 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: takeaways that you see that we can glean from this? 295 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: You know? Pretty I would say successful Free Brittany online 296 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: organizing moment. Yeah. I mean, I think you can't underestimate 297 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: the power of Internet movements to create not just political 298 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: but cultural change. UM. I think, Yeah, what we've we 299 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: talked about how we're going to continue to see the 300 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: right like try and fail to co opt things like this. Um. 301 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: But mostly I just hope that I want to see 302 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: what these folks who are involved in Free Brittany do next. 303 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: There was a lot of talk when I've seen quotes 304 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: in the press of we're going to get more involved 305 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: in getting the conservatorship law changed and reproductive rights. So 306 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: it'll it'll be interesting to see what the hard core 307 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: folks do around it, UM. And then I'm also I'm 308 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: kind of interested to you know, Britney spears as someone 309 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: who has had a career of not being political, like 310 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: I think you know, she's from a red state. She 311 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: uh is very careful I think, and how always and 312 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: how she talks about politics and and and issues like, 313 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: I think she's been very smart about that in her career. 314 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see what she ends up 315 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: doing if she wants to be UM an advocate for 316 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: disability rights or for women's right. She may not want to, 317 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: and by the way, she has every right to just 318 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: live her life and not be the leader of a movement, 319 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: but if she wants to do more with it, she 320 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: clearly has a community that's ready to engage with her, 321 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: so that'll be interesting as well. Yeah, it's gonna be 322 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: really interesting to see. And I'm with you. I think 323 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that if there's one thing 324 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: I believe in, it is the power of women and 325 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: LGBTQ folks and people of color who are fired up 326 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: and have access to the Internet and social media, like 327 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: big things are possible. Things. I never there's so many 328 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: things in a million years I would have never thought 329 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: I would see. But because somebody had the Internet, they 330 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: were able to make it happen. If somebody had the 331 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: Internet and a voice. And I think this is a 332 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: great example full of the power of that. And you know, 333 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: especially now when we're all kind of living our lives 334 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: online more and more because of COVID, I think it's 335 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: gonna be an exciting time to see how that bears out. Yeah, so, 336 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: where can folks keep up with all the amazing work 337 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: that you're doing. Melissa's sure well, I am on Twitter 338 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: at Melissa Ryan. Um. I also have uh my newsletter 339 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: control all Right Delete, which is free and comes out 340 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: every Sunday. You can either find that in my Twitter 341 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: bio or you can go to control all Right Delete 342 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Control Alright Delete is the most I mean, 343 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: I get so many newsletters, it's like the most useful newsletter. 344 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: It's like, if I want to know what's happening on 345 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: the Internet, and like what I should know, it's the 346 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: most useful newsletter, so folks should definitely sign up. I 347 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: mean so much, especially coming from you. That's awesome. Got 348 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech? I just 349 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: want to say hi. You can be just at Hello 350 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts today's 351 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: episode at godi dot com. There Are No Girls on 352 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: the Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a 353 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as 354 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our producer, and sound engineer. 355 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. 356 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review 357 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, 358 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 359 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.