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Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may

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Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. Summer twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: I'm in Phoenix when I get a text from a

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Speaker 1: law enforcement source.

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Speaker 2: I received some photos of a hideout about one to

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Speaker 2: two miles from where Fisher's dog was found. I'm sending

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Speaker 2: them to you. The GPS coordinates are with the photos.

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Speaker 1: This kind of lead makes me salivate, an excuse to

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Speaker 1: leave the city, go to the mountains, hike in a forest,

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Speaker 1: and search for a mysterious shack. Yes please, I open

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Speaker 1: Google Maps, put in the coordinates, and soon we are

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Speaker 1: sixteen miles north of where Mary Fisher's forerunner was found.

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Speaker 1: Not as close as my source said, but still It's

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Speaker 1: better than boiling in a concrete metropolis with one point

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Speaker 1: seven million people during the hottest month in any American

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Speaker 1: city in history. Our producer Chris, and I drive ninety

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Speaker 1: miles north to paysin a mountain town of seventeen thousand.

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Speaker 1: I need caffeine and sugar, so we stop at my

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Speaker 1: favorite Arizona cafe, Common Grounds Coffee. I get an iced

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Speaker 1: coffee and one of the best cinnamon rolls I've ever

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Speaker 1: had passing paysin. We bump our way down dirt roads

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Speaker 1: until my phone tells me we're close to the cryptic

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Speaker 1: cabin about a mile away. Jittery with anticipation and from caffeine,

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Speaker 1: we park exit and hike into the woods. We're in

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Speaker 1: a Ponderosa pine forest, is partly cloudy and kaisobany's low eighties,

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Speaker 1: very breezy and pretty. We're probably ten eleven twelve miles

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Speaker 1: off any kind of paved road, and we're about to

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Speaker 1: hike a mile to the coordinates that we have for

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Speaker 1: this little shack or cabin that somebody found. There's all

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Speaker 1: this equipment and old stuff in there, so I mean,

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Speaker 1: what are the odds Robert Fisher was there? It's slow,

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Speaker 1: but who knows? If I find a pistol with the

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Speaker 1: right cereal number, some old winter green chewing tobacco tens,

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll pay more attention to it. I don't think

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Speaker 1: this will take as long as it seems. Famous last words,

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Speaker 1: well wait, tutorial on the bear spray. So Chris and

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Speaker 1: I went to Swarnego's story yesterday and bought Frontiersman Bear

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Speaker 1: attack deterrent. Bare attacks on humans are rare, but in

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Speaker 1: June twenty twenty three, right before our hike, a black

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Speaker 1: bear killed a man as he drank coffee near Prescott, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: dragging him seventy five feet down an embankment. And this

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Speaker 1: isn't even the first time we've had to worry about bears.

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Speaker 1: In season one, Missing in Alaska, while on a boat

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Speaker 1: off the coast of a remote island searching for a

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Speaker 1: missing plane, we spotted a brown bear on a nearby beach.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I take bear seriously. Oh my god, Chris,

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Speaker 1: it's a bear. Just kidding. So we're kind of switched

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Speaker 1: backing down this very steep embankment what looks like a

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Speaker 1: dried out creek bed. It's getting thicker the woods, pine

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Speaker 1: needles everywhere. It's pretty cloudy. Now it's cool, it's breezy,

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Speaker 1: a little rock outcroppings.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: It's eleven fifty one am on a Tuesday, and we're

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Speaker 1: looking for some mysterious shock in the woods in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three. I'm John Walzac and

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Speaker 1: this is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man

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Speaker 1: who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing

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Speaker 1: up their suburban home and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty

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Speaker 1: three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher and I need

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Speaker 1: your help. Robert Fisher is nowhere, everywhere, all at once.

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Speaker 1: There are so many leads and sightings of him. They

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Speaker 1: require their own episode. Some are intriguing, some are absurd.

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Speaker 1: I want to lay them all out and let you

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Speaker 1: decide what to make of them. So join me on

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Speaker 1: a tour of the world, from a bunker in Scottsdale

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Speaker 1: to a Walmart in Payson, Canada, Mexico, Guatemala, Australia, even

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Speaker 1: a siting at FBI headquarters, until we find Fisher. He

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Speaker 1: is every lead. He is the wilderness cabin burglar, the

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Speaker 1: gold panning hermit, the mysterious man in the canyon. As

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Speaker 1: you listen, think of how exhausting this has been for

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. Thousands of leads, few investigators, strode in, fugitive,

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Speaker 1: alive and dead.

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Speaker 3: The nosy neighbor.

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Speaker 1: The nosy neighbor is the woman who heard Robert and

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Speaker 1: Mary fighting the night of April ninth, two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: She didn't respond to my email's calls, text the letters,

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Speaker 1: and didn't answer the door when I showed up at

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Speaker 1: her house in episode three, I shared emails her son

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Speaker 1: sent me. I bleeped certain things and said I'd reveal

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Speaker 1: them later. This is the first reveal a fascinating new lead.

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Speaker 1: Here's what her son said. Day after the Fisher house

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Speaker 1: blew up, she saw him, Robert Fisher, driving his wife's

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Speaker 1: vehicle down Miller towards McDowell near the Fisher house.

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Speaker 3: And turn east, which he never drove till that event.

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Speaker 1: Robert rarely drove Mary's Forerunner.

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Speaker 4: And told the cops about him and where he was heading,

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Speaker 4: and was ignored.

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Speaker 1: This is a bombshell claim. According to her son, the

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Speaker 1: nosy neighbors saw Robert Fisher in Scottsdale a day after

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Speaker 1: the murders. Unfortunately, I can't verify or to tunk it

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Speaker 1: without speaking to her, and she doesn't want to talk.

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Speaker 3: The bunker.

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Speaker 1: On the morning of April twelfth, two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: two days after the house explodes, an employee of the Mesa,

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Speaker 1: Arizona Fire Department finds an anonymous, handwritten letter left overnight

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Speaker 1: between the locked doors of Station Number one.

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Speaker 2: Robert Fisher, where the three family died in the fire.

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Speaker 2: McDowell and Scottsdale Road. He has a trapdoor bomb shelter

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Speaker 2: under his house. He may be over under his house.

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Speaker 2: Look for three y three door under carpet.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, police find no sign of a bunker under

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Speaker 1: Fisher's house. Rye bar Let me introduce you now to

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Speaker 1: Brianna Whitney, the true Crime Queen of Arizona. Brianna is

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Speaker 1: a reporter for Arizona's Family, a group of three TV

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Speaker 1: stations in Phoenix, and host of the popular podcast True

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Speaker 1: Crime Arizona. In twenty twenty two, she made a documentary

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Speaker 1: called Finding Robert Fisher. Brianna is skilled and tireless. Unlike

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Speaker 1: so many people in this industry, each he does original research.

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Speaker 1: We meet in Phoenix and hit it off. In your

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Speaker 1: career covering crime in Arizona. Is there one case that

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Speaker 1: sticks out as the greatest unsolved case in state history?

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Speaker 1: Is it Robert Fisher?

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Speaker 5: It's Robert Fisher. I can say that without a doubt.

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Speaker 5: It is Robert Fisher. It is probably the most well

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Speaker 5: known true crime case in Arizona. It just sticks with people.

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Speaker 5: And I think for that reason that for one thing,

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Speaker 5: people arizonans investigators, detectives, people involved. Nobody can agree on

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Speaker 5: whether they believe he's dead or alive right now, Yes,

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Speaker 5: no doubt, one hundred percent. This is the most notable,

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Speaker 5: most intriguing, high profile missing person case that Arizona has.

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Speaker 1: So there are five leads that you investigated that I

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Speaker 1: just thought, well, Brianna did such a good job. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to duplicate her work, thank you. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with the Rye bar lead, the infamous Rye bar lead.

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Speaker 5: I didn't even know what Rye was when I started

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Speaker 5: this investigation, because you could drive down the highway and

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Speaker 5: you've already gone through it.

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Speaker 1: Ray is a tiny town of thirty one people, an

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Speaker 1: hour north of Scottsdale, just south of Payson. On April tenth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, the day the Fisher House explodes,

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Speaker 1: a man and woman enter a bar in Rye around

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Speaker 1: six forty five pm. It's cold outside, nasty. The woman

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Speaker 1: appears upset. She goes to the bathroom. The man orders

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Speaker 1: a shot of Johnny Walker red whiskey. He pays cash

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Speaker 1: about five dollars plus a one dollar tip. When the

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Speaker 1: bartender realizes she forgot her cell phone in the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: she goes to get it and sees the man's companion

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Speaker 1: vomiting in a stall. The bartender snags her phone and

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Speaker 1: returns to the bar. Moments later, the man's companion exits

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Speaker 1: the bathroom. The man speaks to her briefly, then gets

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Speaker 1: her club soda. The woman takes a tiny sip, then

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Speaker 1: they leave. They're only in the bar for about ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: The man is thirty eight or thirty nine, the bartender says,

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Speaker 1: six feet tall, one hundred and ninety to two hundred pounds,

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Speaker 1: with crew cut hair, wearing a brown fedora style hat.

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Speaker 1: The woman is twenty eight or twenty nine five two,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five to one hundred and thirty pounds,

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Speaker 1: with brown eyes and long, straight black hair, in black

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Speaker 1: pants and a black jacket. When the bartender sees a

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Speaker 1: photo of Robert Fisher, she says, quote, that's the guy

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Speaker 1: I saw. This is perhaps the most famous of all

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Speaker 1: the Fisher case. Leads I don't buy it. The idea

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Speaker 1: that Fisher successfully pulls off a triple murder, sets his

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Speaker 1: home to explode, then just pops into a bar on

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Speaker 1: the way out of town in a fedora is frankly absurd. Also,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of this story that's never been reported.

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Speaker 1: It supports my opinion. I found it in a police file.

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Speaker 1: Around ten pm that night, three hours after the couple

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Speaker 1: leaves the bar, the woman shows up at a house

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Speaker 1: across the street, where a friend of the bartender lives.

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Speaker 1: The woman asks to use a phone to call her

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Speaker 1: brother in Payson. She says her boyfriend left her and

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Speaker 1: drove away instead of her brother. She calls the Kila

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Speaker 1: County sh Sheriff's office trying to get a ride home.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear what they tell her. The woman departs on

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Speaker 1: foot down a road carrying a blanket. The bartender's friend

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Speaker 1: describes her as thirty five five two to five four,

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Speaker 1: one hundred pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, in a black suit,

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Speaker 1: jacket and black pants. If you believe this lead, you

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Speaker 1: have to believe that a fedora wearing Robert Fisher left

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend and Rye and she later called the police

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Speaker 1: asking for a ride, but was never identified.

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Speaker 3: The grocery stores.

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Speaker 1: The problem with trying to find Robert Fisher is everyone

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Speaker 1: looks like Robert Fisher. He's generic, no crazy tattoos, no eyepatch,

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Speaker 1: a vanilla everyman. Right after the murders, a witness claims

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Speaker 1: to see Fisher at a Walmart in Paysin.

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Speaker 6: I went to Walmart and went through about ten hours

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Speaker 6: of tape.

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Speaker 1: Kila County Detective Brian Hay.

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Speaker 6: After doing that, found out that their clocks were screwed

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Speaker 6: up on their security cameras and that they hadn't place

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Speaker 6: a tape. So I watched all that for nothing.

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Speaker 1: Almost immediately another lead comes in. Scottsdale Police tell three

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Speaker 1: TV that there.

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Speaker 7: Has been an unconfirmed sighting of Fisher reportedly seen at

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Speaker 7: this grocery store in.

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Speaker 1: Patient Bashes, an Arizona grocery chain. Hevey goes to Bashes

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Speaker 1: and watches security tapes. He sees a man who could

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Speaker 1: be Fisher. Interestingly, the man is with someone.

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Speaker 6: But whatever videos I saw were so miserable that they

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Speaker 6: were basically useless.

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Speaker 8: How detail so.

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Speaker 6: Grainy that you couldn't make out any details whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, you could have had Robert Fisher on

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Speaker 1: film and it's so low quality.

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Speaker 6: Or we could have had Deputy Rodney Kronk, who was

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Speaker 6: identified as Robert Fisher on multiple occasions driving his Dodge

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Speaker 6: truck or a County vehicle.

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Speaker 8: It was almost a spot on match.

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Speaker 6: Really, Yeah, and he was with Healer County. Yeah, what

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Speaker 6: was that like for him? Well, we tease him quite

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Speaker 6: a bit about it. The only thing he lacked was

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Speaker 6: a gold tooth. Other he looked just like Robert Fisher.

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Speaker 3: The tow truck driver.

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Speaker 9: I got information that a tow truck driver possibly pulled

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Speaker 9: Fisher out of a ditch.

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Speaker 1: Scottsdale Detective TJ. Duran.

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Speaker 9: The reason why he believed it was Fisher because it's

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Speaker 9: the same truck that we eventually found, and he had

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Speaker 9: a dog with him, So we believed that he was

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Speaker 9: up on a rim area, probably driving around trying to

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Speaker 9: stay out of sight.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember specifically where that was.

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Speaker 9: I believe it was up near Blue Ridge Reservoir, which

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Speaker 9: is directly north of Payson.

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Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, the Arizona Republic says this lead is

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00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: quote the last known confirmed sighting of Fisher. That's not true.

219
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 1: It's never been confirmed. All we know is that a

220
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080
Speaker 1: tow truck driver claims he pulled a man matching Fisher's

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Speaker 1: description with a dog matching blue in an suv matching

222
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Speaker 1: Mary's out of a ditch. What makes you think that

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Speaker 1: lead in particular is a reliable lead? Since it came

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Speaker 1: after all the publicity and the driver didn't speak up beforehand.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if he just saw it at the

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00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 4: time and was like whatever, But I mean he described

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00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,600
Speaker 4: Robert the dog the fore Runner.

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Speaker 1: Former FBI agent Bob Caldwell.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he didn't do a toe slip, so he

230
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Speaker 4: didn't take notes and write down the vehicle and all

231
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,320
Speaker 4: he did was give him cash or thanking him for

232
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Speaker 4: pulling him out.

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Speaker 1: The tow truck driver claims this happened a few days

234
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: after the murders, but he doesn't report it until after

235
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Speaker 1: the fore Runner is located a week later.

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Speaker 10: It is a long ways of ways from where Young

237
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Speaker 10: and the car was found to where he was pulled.

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Speaker 1: Out Scott Stale Lieutenant Hugh Lockerby, I.

239
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Speaker 10: Can't discount it. He was documented early on in the

240
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 10: investigation by you know, we had a deputy sheriff by

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Speaker 10: the name of Gil Marino follow up on it for TJ.

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Speaker 10: And that was documented in the report and the guy

243
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 10: described a silver fore Runner at the dog in it

244
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Speaker 10: and the guy said he's from the valley. Well, what

245
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 10: doesn't make sense is when you look at what he

246
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,560
Speaker 10: told the sheriff deputy and then TJ. And TJ's report

247
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 10: was after he pulled them out, comes out to eighty seven.

248
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Speaker 10: The tow truck driver goes left, which would be back

249
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 10: south on eighty seven, and the four un remixser right

250
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 10: and goes north on eighty seven. Well, that's in the

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Speaker 10: mountain areas up there. You don't get too young by

252
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Speaker 10: just getting out a separate road. You'd have to take

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Speaker 10: like I don't even know how you get there through

254
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Speaker 10: forest roads. So if you take a right, you have

255
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Speaker 10: to go all the way up to the forty to

256
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 10: Winslow or Holebrook or whatever, and then come all the

257
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Speaker 10: way back down the backside of the Mogian rint Tuesday.

258
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Speaker 10: It would be so far around it take you hours

259
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 10: and hours. Or you would have to have gone right

260
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 10: like he did, like he described, and then after a

261
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 10: little bit time you turn and come back down south

262
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,320
Speaker 10: because that's the quickest route. It just doesn't make any

263
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 10: sense or why he went all the way up there

264
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 10: and gets pulled out. Did he get like he doesn't

265
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Speaker 10: want to get exposed?

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Speaker 6: Now?

267
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 10: Did that really even happen?

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Speaker 1: I don't think it did. Neither does HeLa County detective

269
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:48,800
Speaker 1: buying Haby.

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Speaker 6: I've been to Blue Ridge hundreds of times. There's so

271
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Speaker 6: many people in and out of Blue Ridge Reservoir Road

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Speaker 6: that I suspect it if Robert was stuck in a

273
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Speaker 6: ditch there or somebody else would have pulled him out

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Speaker 6: of that.

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Speaker 8: Day inside of a touch talk. Yeah, toe trucks are

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Speaker 8: not going to go there without a call.

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Speaker 1: They're not just going to be driving around. Did he

278
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,640
Speaker 1: tell you anything that wasn't public the tow truck driver.

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Speaker 8: I don't think so.

280
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Speaker 11: No.

281
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Speaker 1: I'd love to speak to the driver to gauge his trustworthiness,

282
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Speaker 1: but unfortunately guys dead. August twenty twenty three. Okay, so

283
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: just to give you an idea, we're kind of on

284
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Speaker 1: the side of a very steep embankment that goes down

285
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Speaker 1: maybe what do you think that is? Like five hundred

286
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 1: feet very slippery slope, very steep, lots of fallen trees,

287
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: burn trees, rocks everywhere, very slippery. We have boots and

288
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 1: not very safe hiking to the mystery cabin. We realized

289
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 1: the terrain is much more severe than it appears on

290
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 1: topo maps. This is at least a forty five degree anglia.

291
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,280
Speaker 1: I think more. Start to feel it on my old

292
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 1: decrepit op it goes in rock. It's also getting darker

293
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 1: and cloudier. It almost feels like a good storm. This

294
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 1: area has a colorful history. In nineteen twenty seven, a

295
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 1: plane carrying a lion crashed in a canyon twenty miles

296
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,840
Speaker 1: south of here. Yes, a lion, specifically Leo the Lion,

297
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: the famous MGM mascot.

298
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 8: There's still parts of the plane out.

299
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Speaker 1: There, HeLa County detective Brian Havy.

300
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 6: Anybody that's been in this area as long as I

301
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 6: have have been to the side of the crash, let's

302
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 6: left parts of the air plane that they never hauled

303
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 6: out of there. I had a piece of a rear

304
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 6: tail rudder for years and years and finally had disappeared

305
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 6: or I gave it to somebody.

306
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: Both Leo and the pilot survived. The pilot hiked out

307
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: to get help. A week later, a group from pace

308
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 1: and made it to the wrecked plane. Leo was still

309
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 1: in his cage. They fed him a slaughtered calf. Do

310
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 1: you remember from the topo map there's this and then

311
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 1: over there it goes into a longer canyon, and I

312
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,400
Speaker 1: think it's like right where this hits that longer canyon.

313
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Speaker 1: So I do think if we just cut kind of

314
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 1: diagonal down. I think we should let me just put

315
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 1: my phone away and let's just cut down.

316
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 3: And then we're so close the baby blue truck.

317
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,720
Speaker 1: Around five pm on April nineteenth, two thousand and one,

318
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 1: a tipster calls the police saying Robert Fisher is driving

319
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 1: a baby blue Ford truck south towards Payson. Officers speed

320
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 1: north but can't find it. They get a report that

321
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 1: it exited onto a side road. An hour later, they

322
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 1: call off the search. By chance, this is almost the

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00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,120
Speaker 1: exact moment that Greg the camper finds Mary's SUV in

324
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 1: the woods, forty miles east of Payson. This lead was

325
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: first reported by the Payson round up the Hitchhike. Four

326
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 1: days later, after a hectic weekend in the wilderness, Detective T. J.

327
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 1: Jurand returns to his desk in Scottsdale.

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00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 9: When I came into work, I got a call and

329
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,719
Speaker 9: a woman and her husband. It was either two days

330
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,640
Speaker 9: or the day before we found that truck. They're driving

331
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 9: south on Young Road from two sixty A top the rint.

332
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 9: You go south on this forest road and that's your

333
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 9: Young Road, and you start heading south towards Young. She

334
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,359
Speaker 9: says her and her husband were driving down the road

335
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 9: and a guy is walking. Now she's in the passenger seat,

336
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 9: so the guy's on the outside.

337
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 3: Of the road.

338
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,239
Speaker 9: As they're driving down the road, this guy walks by

339
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 9: him and you can't drive fast on that road because

340
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 9: you'll slide everywhere. And her and her husband said, that's

341
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 9: Robert Fisher. And I believe they saw him. I think

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00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 9: he walked out of there.

343
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: Did they say one that.

344
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 9: Was I can't remember if they told me it was

345
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 9: two days before, five days before. But when they saw

346
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 9: the news and saw that the truck had been found, now,

347
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 9: of course I was upset, thinking, why didn't you call

348
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 9: us that day? Now that happens in everything you know,

349
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 9: they might not have thought it was him.

350
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 8: Was it him?

351
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: How do you filter out people though that are just

352
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 1: looking for attention?

353
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 9: Just by talking to her on the phone, and I

354
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 9: knew she was telling the truth. It was instinct. I

355
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 9: could hear it in the inflection in her voice.

356
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,679
Speaker 1: Wouldn't Fisher have tried to stay off the road to

357
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: the side, I mean, he got away to that point.

358
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that

359
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: he would be just strolling on the side of the road.

360
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 1: After the crimes, knowing people are probably looking for him, right.

361
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 9: Right, But you're up north, you're in the country. You're

362
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 9: thinking that most people you see up there on the

363
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 9: Rim area camping, how long they been camping? Had they

364
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 9: even seen the news, had they even read a newspaper?

365
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,439
Speaker 9: So he still has some time.

366
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: I respect Detective Duran, but we disagree on this lead.

367
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm very skeptical of it.

368
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 3: The pawn shop.

369
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 1: April twenty fifth, twelve twenty five PM. A man who

370
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: looks like Robert Fisher enters a Phoenix pawn shop wearing

371
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 1: green camo pants, a strike shirt, and military style boots

372
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 1: that are scuffed but not muddy. He's scruffy and unshaven

373
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: and appears to have been sleeping in his clothes. He

374
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: browses the gun section, says nothing, then exits quickly after

375
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: seeing a sign requiring photo ID. He drives east in

376
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: a Toyota pickup truck plate two nine five FLb. The

377
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: manager is eighty to ninety percent sure the guy was Fisher. Unfortunately,

378
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 1: the shop security camera was off. Police check the bar

379
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 1: next door. They find footage of the truck, but the

380
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 1: angle is bad. They can't see the driver.

381
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 3: The old Ford.

382
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 1: Two days later, a friend of the Fisher sees a

383
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: Robert lookalike driving an older Ford pickup truck in Scottsdale.

384
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: She tells her husband, who calls the cops. I speak

385
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: to him by phone. He doesn't want his name used.

386
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 1: He and his wife knew the Fishers for sixteen years.

387
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 1: They lived in the same apartment complex in Phoenix in

388
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: the eighties. The wife gets a partial plate for sh

389
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: Police find one hundred and seventy nine possible, none of

390
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: the names ring a bell.

391
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 3: Malicious Gap.

392
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 1: On April twenty ninth, two people turkey hunting near Malicious

393
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: Gap in the Tonto National Forest are sitting in camp

394
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 1: taking a break reading when a man calls out from

395
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: the woods. He emerges, bearded and dirty and tattered and

396
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 1: torn camo clothes, carrying a sawed off shotgun. He asks

397
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: for directions to Malicious Gap, where he claims he's meeting

398
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: his brother. When he hears an ATV approaching, he gets nervous,

399
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 1: says goodbye, and runs into the woods. The next day,

400
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: the couple returns home to Montana. They don't report the

401
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: sighting until July ninth, when police ask why they think

402
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: it was Fisher. They say they saw a photo of

403
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: him and quote knew it was the same man.

404
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 3: Oak Flat.

405
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: On May first, someone sees a Fisher look alike at

406
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,880
Speaker 1: the Oak Flat campground near Superior, Arizona. That's it, That's all.

407
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: I have on that one the pyramids.

408
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: On May second, a woman named Joyce Wilson calls the

409
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: Scottsdale Police Department. Three years earlier, she says she and

410
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: her husband were hiking in the Superstition Mountains forty miles

411
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: east of Phoenix when they came across a remote campsite

412
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 1: and a man who looked just like Robert Fisher. A

413
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: year later, Joyce saw the man again in the distance.

414
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: By the time she reached his campsite, he was gone. Instead,

415
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: she found piles of rocks in the shape of pyramids

416
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: all over the campsite. She saw bones and a fire pit.

417
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 1: She took photos. Keep in mind this was before the murders,

418
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: but Joyce believes the man was Fisher. She gives police

419
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: directions to the campsite so they can search it. It's

420
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 1: unclear if they do.

421
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 3: Tortilla Flat.

422
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 1: May third, the Arizona Republic headline false Fisher sightings tips

423
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 1: surge across state quote Robert Fisher has become Arizona's version

424
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: of Elvis, Spotted inconvenience stores and campgrounds all over the state.

425
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: Someone sees him checking into a motel with bloody arms.

426
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: Someone sees him building a rock wall on a remote road,

427
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: sees him at a fortified campsite near Tortilla Flat, thirty

428
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: miles east of Phoenix. That afternoon, Detective Durin flies over

429
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: the area. No campsite, no fissure. In the next two decades,

430
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: police are flooded with ten to twenty thousand leads. Only

431
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: ten to twenty point one percent are deemed promising.

432
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 3: June seventh, two thousand and three.

433
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 1: Around six fifty am, a man with a shaved head

434
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: and sunglasses drives by Fisher's old house in a white

435
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: extended cab pickup with temporary paper plates. A neighbor panics.

436
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: She calls nine to one one Police investigate the lead.

437
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: They don't think it's Fisher, probably a guy cruising around

438
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: looking for a used car for sale, they say. Canada,

439
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: February two thousand and four.

440
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 7: Thousands of tips have come in over the years, and

441
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 7: yesterday cops in White Rock, Canada, thought they may have

442
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 7: nabbed the phantom fugitive at this home in British Columbia, Canada.

443
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 5: Tip is Huge.

444
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: Whitney, the host of True Crime Arizona.

445
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 5: Investigator's got a tip that there was somebody that looked

446
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 5: like Robert Fisher living in white Rock, Canada.

447
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: White Rock, British Columbia, is a small city a mile

448
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: and a half north of the US border. Here's what happens.

449
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: A teenage boy with divorced parents thinks his mom's new

450
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: boyfriend is strange. He and his dad start googling fugitives.

451
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: They come across an image of Robert Fisher. He kind

452
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: of looks like the mom's new boyfriend. So the boy

453
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: and his dad call Canadian police and.

454
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 5: They went in guns of blazing to this house, to

455
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 5: the point where they showed up like a swat team

456
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 5: with guns everything. And if you think it's Robert Fisher,

457
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 5: then yeah, you're dealing with probably one of the most

458
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 5: dangerous fugitives in the world. So you go in with

459
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 5: all precautions. They took this man into custody. And what's

460
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 5: interesting about this man is that he had a lot

461
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 5: of characteristics that match Robert. When you look at Robert

462
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 5: from the outside. He looks like the everyday man. There

463
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 5: isn't anything that's super identifiable that you could say, yeah

464
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 5: for share him. But there are a couple of things

465
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 5: you don't really see that do match up. One of

466
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 5: those is he was missing a tooth where he had

467
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 5: I think had a crown. This guy in Canada had

468
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 5: the same tooth missing. Robert had also undergone back surgery,

469
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 5: so he had a backscar. This man also had a backscar.

470
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 5: So those are things that are kind of odd to

471
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 5: match up if you're not talking about the same person.

472
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 5: So they bring this man into the police station, and

473
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 5: this is where it gets kind of strange. Robert Fisher's

474
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 5: longtime next door neighbor was living in Washington at the time.

475
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: She's talking about the son of the nosy neighbor, the

476
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: man who told me that his mom saw Robert in

477
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: Scottsdale the day after the murders, the odd son. By

478
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, he's living in Seattle.

479
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 5: They end up agreeing that they're going to bring this

480
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 5: long time neighbor up to the police station and act

481
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 5: like they're putting him through the custody protocols. And in

482
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 5: the singing room is an everybody else who's being taken

483
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 5: into custody, which would include this man that could or

484
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 5: could not be Robert Fisher. And so I talked to

485
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 5: the neighbor several times on the phone. He told me

486
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 5: that when he got into the room, the man kind

487
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 5: of did it like a survey of the room, you know,

488
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 5: if you're looking at your new surroundings, and said that

489
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 5: when the two of them locked eyes, that the man

490
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 5: looked stunned. And the neighbor says, he is one hundred

491
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 5: percent sure that's Robert Fisher. And he didn't live next

492
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 5: to Robert for just a year. He lived next to

493
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 5: him for like ten years, like it was a long

494
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 5: time neighbor. So the neighbor told him, yeah, this is

495
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 5: definitely Robert. But they took that man's fingerprints and not

496
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 5: only did it not match Robert, but it matched some

497
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: other person's identity, meaning there was no way that this

498
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 5: could be Robert.

499
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: Do you buy a chance to have a photo.

500
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 5: Actually have a whole Robert Fisher album on my phone

501
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 5: for you of everything that I took. So this is

502
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 5: the man wow from Canada, huh, which I can see

503
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 5: it for sure. However, I think the Mexico tip looks

504
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 5: more similar.

505
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a minute.

506
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 5: So this is the front, here's the back scar, wow,

507
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 5: which you know is interesting. And here's the missing too.

508
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 3: Oh.

509
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: I definitely see he has a resemblance to him, for sure.

510
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: Sergio and I, Brianna's cameraman.

511
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 5: Thought that this looked like he could be Robert Fisher's brother.

512
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: I see that. I see aspects of his face in

513
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: this man, and when you combine that with the missing

514
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: tooth and the backscar, I see it. But he's not

515
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: somebody I see immediately having looked at every single photo

516
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: Robert Fisher, and I think that's Robert Fisher.

517
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 5: Agreed, that's why I feel. But when I was interviewing John.

518
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: Heinzelman, the current detective.

519
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 5: He was like, you know, this is something where you

520
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 5: can't look at him and say yes, it's for sure him,

521
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 5: or yes it's for sure not, and so you have

522
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 5: to go through everything to fully identify whether it is

523
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 5: or is it.

524
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 7: There is an uncanny resemblance concerning the two individuals. But

525
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 7: today disappointed Scott's Dell cop saying despite a strong physical resemblance,

526
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 7: fingerprint test show that the man colored in Canada unfortunately

527
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 7: is not their guy.

528
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: People of course are asking you, well, could he have

529
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: changed his fingerprints? Can you talk about that?

530
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 5: So fingerprinting is obviously a big part of forensics, and

531
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 5: each individual person has their own set of unique fingerprints.

532
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 5: You and I we don't have the same fingerprints as

533
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 5: any other person in the world. And they still look

534
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 5: at fingerprints almost like a tree trunk. So you know,

535
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 5: when you're looking at tree trunks, you're counting how all

536
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 5: the tree is by the rings in the stump or

537
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 5: the trunk. That's similar to fingerprints. You're looking at whirls

538
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 5: and arches and unique imprints that they give. So the

539
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 5: only way you can change your finger tips or prints

540
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 5: is to obliterate them or burn them off so that

541
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 5: if your finger is pushed down it doesn't create an

542
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 5: actual print. That's hard to do, or it'd have to

543
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 5: cut your fingers off. There is no other way to

544
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 5: alter your fingerprints. And with the Canada tip, it's not

545
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 5: like that person didn't have a fingerprint. His unique fingerprint

546
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 5: matched the identity of somebody else, So that's how you

547
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 5: know for sure that it wasn't Robert Fisher.

548
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: If you like this show, please download our first two seasons,

549
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: Missing in Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates,

550
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: visit meon thirty three dot com or follow me on

551
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: Twitter at John waalzac Jo n Wa l Czak. Thanks

552
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: for listening. So moving on to the Mexico lead.

553
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 5: Mexico lead, that one was just like, oh crazy.

554
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: Tell me about that.

555
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 5: So, because I had started this investigation when I first

556
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 5: started Your Prime Arizona, I had made contact with the

557
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 5: detectives in it, t J. Duran, Hu Lockerby, John Ainsman,

558
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 5: and I really respect all the work that all three

559
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: of them do, so they would give me a little

560
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 5: bit more information than maybe was out there. And when

561
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 5: I knew I was doing a documentary, I told him

562
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 5: I wanted to go down certain leads, and I knew

563
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 5: about the Canada one, that one was pretty well reported,

564
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 5: but the Mexico tip was not. And they told me, well,

565
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 5: there was this crazy Mexico tip with these pictures, Like

566
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 5: what Mexico tip? What pictures? And when I interviewed Hugh Lockerby,

567
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 5: he brought the pictures with him. So there was this

568
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 5: man that was in a small Mexican town a little

569
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 5: south of the border because it was on a Gulf

570
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 5: town and this man had taken some pictures with tourists

571
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 5: who were there visiting mom and daughter, maybe some other people.

572
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 5: And because this wasn't too long after the Fisher family

573
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 5: home explosion, his picture was everywhere. And so when this

574
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 5: mom and daughter got home from their vacation, they were

575
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: looking through their pictures and they saw they had taken

576
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 5: pictures of this man. And then it's like something clicked

577
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 5: and they said, oh my gosh, this looks like Robert Fisher.

578
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 5: Maybe we should report this to the FBI, and they

579
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 5: did so, Scottsdale Police FBI. They end up going down

580
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 5: there finding this man and who I think worked in

581
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 5: the area, all of that interviewed him and deemed that

582
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 5: it was not Robert Fisher, that it was somebody who

583
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 5: worked in the area. He did not match the prince

584
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 5: and everything else. But these pictures are wild to the

585
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 5: point that when investigators got the lead, they said, we

586
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 5: need to get there right now. This is concerning because

587
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 5: this is possibly truly Robert Fisher.

588
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: Didn't Fisher's family say the same thing about the photos.

589
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, So Robert Fisher's sister hadn't seen the pictures before

590
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 5: we did our documentary and they were new, they hadn't

591
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 5: been out there before. And she told me that when

592
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 5: she saw the pictures, her heart stopped. She really thought

593
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 5: that could have been her brother. And when we're talking

594
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 5: family too, I mean, yeah, you're looking at these and

595
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 5: the people closest to Robert thought this could have been him.

596
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: That's a very credible tip. But obviously it wasn't. But yeah,

597
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 5: to hear that his own sister, who saw those pictures

598
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 5: for the first time, thought wow, this really could be

599
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 5: my brother is pretty wild.

600
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: Can we look at those photos?

601
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the mom and daughter, so we have

602
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 5: this guy. They're a little blurry, but some of them

603
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 5: look better than others. Here's this one.

604
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

605
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 5: I thought this was the best one.

606
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: The mouth is similar, the face is similar. I definitely

607
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: see the resemblance.

608
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: One percent.

609
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the bodego tip.

610
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, somebody had called in and said that they were

611
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 5: taking pictures of themselves at a bodega.

612
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: In Guatemala in two thousand and nine, just taking.

613
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 5: A normal picture outside of bodega, and this man's captured

614
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 5: in the background. And these people told investigators that when

615
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 5: he saw himself in the background, he came up and said,

616
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 5: get me out of this. I don't want to be

617
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 5: in the your background. I don't want to be in

618
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 5: your picture, which put these people on high alert, like, okay,

619
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 5: no worries. We were just taking our own picture. We

620
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 5: were trying to take a picture of anybody. So they

621
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 5: found that very suspective when they got back. They also

622
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 5: reported their pictures to the FBI. And so he's kind

623
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 5: of in the background, this man and a couple of

624
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 5: them looks kind of nondescript. That's a thing with that tip,

625
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 5: We don't know. Could that have been Robert Fisher? Yeah,

626
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 5: I could have, but there was never any confirmation. They

627
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 5: never could find the person that was in the picture.

628
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: So when you did this, you got a bunch of leads.

629
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: One of the leads that you got was about a

630
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: man who came out of the woods and attacked someone.

631
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that lead and your process

632
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: and investigating it. Yeah.

633
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 5: I was in the middle of recording of podcasts for

634
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 5: a completely different story. So this is a long time

635
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 5: homicide detective in the valley who's very experienced on very

636
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: high profile cases, and I just mentioned to him that

637
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 5: we were doing the Robert Fisher investigation, and he said, oh,

638
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 5: my gosh, I have a tip. Said what he said, Yeah,

639
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 5: so I used to own this house up in Sholo.

640
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: Forty miles east of where police found Mary's forerunner.

641
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 5: And this man that used to live there was attacked

642
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: by a man that came out of the woods asking

643
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 5: for money and food. And it was right around the

644
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 5: time that Fisher disappeared. And I don't think they ever

645
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: caught that person. And immediately my journalism senses are like wow,

646
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 5: because especially with a case like this, you get so

647
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 5: many tips that it's easy to say, oh, this is

648
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 5: just not credible, or oh, there's nothing to that. But

649
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 5: this is coming from somebody who investigations like this and

650
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 5: had for a long time. So I'm thinking, wow, I've

651
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 5: got to track this down. This is a crazy tip.

652
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 5: So I tracked down the house. Then I went back

653
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 5: looked at like the county assessor's website to figure out

654
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 5: who owned it. Figured that part out he had since died,

655
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 5: but it was easy to go back and find old information.

656
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 5: So once I had his name, I figured, Okay, now

657
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 5: I'm trying to figure out if there's a police report

658
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 5: who took it. I believe it ended up being the

659
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 5: Navajo County Sheriff's office, and I put in a Freedom

660
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 5: of Information Act request which is known as a FOYA,

661
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 5: to get the police report from that day. I got

662
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 5: it back and it described this entire interaction. This guy

663
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 5: comes out of the woods. He's asking the homeowner for money.

664
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 5: The homeowner says he'll allow him to work around the

665
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 5: house or work on his property for money. The guy

666
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 5: says no and then ends up hitting him, and there's

667
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 5: an assault that goes down, and then before officers can

668
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 5: get there, the man is gone. They never found him.

669
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 5: And that's what the report says, which is very Robert Fisher.

670
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 5: And then it goes on to say the man's tall,

671
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 5: slender that also could be Robert Fisher. It did say

672
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 5: he was likely in his twenties, which would not have

673
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 5: fit Robert, but you never really know what those things.

674
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 5: There was quite a bit that did fit it. Where

675
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 5: we were able to rule this tip out completely was

676
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 5: the date this happened, I believe, eight months before the

677
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 5: Fisher family home exploded. And that's how we were able

678
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 5: to say, okay, no, this was not Robert. He had

679
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 5: not disappeared at that point, and the detective just got

680
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 5: the months off just a little bit, so we know

681
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 5: that that's not Robert Finland.

682
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: My mom called me Britney Fisher's teacher, Ms Honey.

683
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 12: And she says, so they think they found Robert Fisher

684
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 12: in Finland, and it was her Finish sources that thought

685
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 12: that they had found it. It wasn't necessarily the FBI.

686
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 12: It was rumor and mail going around in Finland, specifically Helsinki.

687
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 12: And then my mom said, yeah, he would blend in

688
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 12: there perfectly, but then he would have to learn Finish,

689
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 12: so then he would stand out. So then we thought

690
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 12: probably not, but who knows.

691
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: Australia in late two thousand and one or early two

692
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: thousand and two, a doctor who knew Fisher is on

693
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: vacation in Australia when he sees a man who looks

694
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: just like, yes, you guessed it Fisher. I contact the

695
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: doctor but he never responds. Instead, I speak to a

696
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: colleague who worked with both men. He requests ananimity.

697
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 13: Because we all believe that he's still alive, and if

698
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 13: he was capable of doing this to his family and

699
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 13: he was truly trying to hide, and if he was

700
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 13: starting to be pinned down or something like that, would

701
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 13: he retaliated the people that gave inside information to how

702
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 13: he could be found.

703
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: There was that feary us.

704
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 8: Definitely.

705
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: We meet at a donut shop, which by chance started renovations. Today,

706
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: of all days, it's loud cacaffeinists. We're at a tiny

707
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: table in the corner as workers hammer and saw behind us.

708
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: I expect to be buzzed at a cafe, but not

709
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: like this. However, I don't want to scare off the source.

710
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: And the donuts in Vietnamese iced coffee are great. Shout

711
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: out to Bosa Donuts. So we proceed with the interview.

712
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 13: What did he say he saw in Australia, Him and

713
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 13: his wife and I think his kids. They were on

714
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 13: vacation in Australia and they were in an open area.

715
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 13: It was like an open marketplace, walkways and stuff like that,

716
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 13: and he said, I saw this guy. We had eye contact.

717
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 8: He goes, I know it was Robert Fisher.

718
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 13: He goes, I immediately grabbed my family and we took

719
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 13: off and we went in a building and called the police,

720
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 13: and the police showed up.

721
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 8: They explained the situation.

722
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 13: The police actually contacted the FBI. The FBI helped the

723
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 13: Australian police kind of put them in hiding, moved them

724
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 13: out of their hotel room, put them in a different

725
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 13: hotel room in hiding, and then they were down there

726
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 13: and found the person and it was not him.

727
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: Oof, probably the worst audio of any interview I have

728
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: ever done. I'm sorry anyway, to make a long story short,

729
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: the man in Australia was not Fisher.

730
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 3: The medical magazine there.

731
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 13: Was publication, a medical publication that I saw that they

732
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 13: had taken a picture of a healthcare worker in a

733
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 13: hospital in Canada, and that picture looked exactly like Robert Fisher.

734
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 13: And I contacted the FBI about that, and they went

735
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 13: up there and they found that person, interviewed him, determined

736
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 13: he was not Robert Fisher.

737
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 3: The sheepherder's cabin.

738
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 1: Before the murders, this coworker told Robert about a secret

739
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: spot in northern Arizona.

740
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 3: There was like an old sheepherders cabin there.

741
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 8: Can you tell me about that cabin?

742
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 13: Was it abandoned, Yes, it had been abandoned for probably

743
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 13: thirty forty years.

744
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 3: It was very.

745
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 13: Small, probably smaller than this little section that we're in. Yeah,

746
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 13: very very tiny, but it was It was about ten

747
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 13: fifteen miles north.

748
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: Of Williams forty five miles south of the Grand Canyon.

749
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 13: Today, you can't even get there. It's all cordoned off

750
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 13: and private land and stuff like that. So but back

751
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 13: then it was very I wouldn't say easy to get to.

752
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 13: You had to kind of know where it was to

753
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 13: get there, and a lot of people typically didn't go

754
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 13: there unless it was like hunting season.

755
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 3: People would you would see.

756
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 13: More people at that time of year. But this happened

757
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 13: in the spring, and hunting season in Arizona's mostly in

758
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 13: the fall.

759
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: So you've told the police about this span, Yeah, do

760
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: you know if they want to go to truck?

761
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they they didn't find anything there, the canyon man.

762
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: A few weeks after Fisher vanishes, Scottsdale Detective TJ. Juran

763
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: gets a call from a sheriff's deputy in Coconino County,

764
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: north of Phoenix.

765
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 9: And he said, Hey, I had an interesting incident occurred.

766
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 9: They were doing a search and rescue in a canyon.

767
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 9: So where Robert Fisher's truck was found. If you walk

768
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 9: up Young Road to two sixty year now on.

769
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: Top of the rim, the muggy on rem.

770
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 9: Just west of that is a lake called Willow Springs Lake.

771
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 9: Behind that lake, it's damned. Behind that dam is a canyon.

772
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 9: At first, it starts out to be a small canyon,

773
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 9: then it grows, and I've piked it a couple of time.

774
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 9: They had a search and rescue and there were two

775
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 9: incidents where they were on a cliff doing a rescue

776
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 9: and he looked out over the canyon and he saw

777
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 9: a man.

778
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 8: Now wasn't Robert Fisher.

779
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 9: Who knows, but he resembled them, And once he saw

780
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 9: the search and rescues, he turned around and beat feet.

781
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 9: Another incident occurred where in that canyon you can fish

782
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 9: the stream there, and supposedly.

783
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 8: A guy was down there.

784
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 9: I don't know if he was fishing or hunting, and

785
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 9: some guy approached him and got mad at him that

786
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 9: he was in his area. So the guy got kind

787
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 9: of creeped out and left. And then, of course, when

788
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 9: somebody mentioned Robert Fisher and showed him a picture, he says,

789
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 9: that looks like the guy that confronted me. Could it

790
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 9: be possible he was up there for a little while

791
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 9: before he left the area. Sure, it's possible, but I

792
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 9: do not believe that he's living out in the country

793
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 9: as a grizzly Adams. I'm just not buying it.

794
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 3: The gold panning hermit.

795
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: There was a guy, a hermit living up outside of Prescott.

796
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: Former FBI agent Bob Caldwell.

797
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: And he was panning for gold and they said he

798
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 4: looked like Fisher. As soon as I got the call,

799
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: I called some law enforcement up there that I know.

800
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 4: They actually went out found the guy. He's living in

801
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 4: a little lean to tent panning for gold.

802
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: It wasn't Robert the Fossil Creek burdler.

803
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: For many years police keep an eye on car and

804
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: cabin break ins in the Arizona Wilderness. We had one

805
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: guy that was doing burglaries once again. HeLa County Detective

806
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: Brian Hay at.

807
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 6: The Fossil Creek Trail had a camp up there, hidden in.

808
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: The woods, eighteen miles northwest of Payson, and.

809
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 6: It took us almost six months to find his little

810
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 6: man cave out in the woods.

811
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: This was sometime in the early two thousands.

812
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 6: He had firearms and weapons and dan goods and stuff.

813
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: They catched the burglar. It's not Robert.

814
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: Fisher, the Utah mountain Man.

815
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: From twenty seven to thirteen, A mysterious man breaks into

816
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: dozens of cabins in the Utah Mountains. By winter, he

817
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: steals supplies, defaces religious icons, and leaves little notes that,

818
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: depending on his mood, are either menacing or polite. By summer,

819
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: as hikers flood in, he hides in the woods with guns, radios, batteries,

820
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: and dehydrated food. The longer he evades authorities, the more

821
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: his legend grows. He morphs into a folk hero. In

822
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, he's caught on camera in Camo toating a

823
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: rifle and shuffling around in purple snowshoes. He kind of

824
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: looks like Robert Fisher. The FBI considers the possibility that

825
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: he might be Fisher, but in twenty thirteen police catch him.

826
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: His name is Troy James Knapp. My sources here were

827
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: Outside magazine and the Associated Press.

828
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 3: The Buddhist compound.

829
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: Investigating this case. I repeatedly hear rumors linking Robert Fisher

830
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: to a remote Buddhist compound. Specif that residence of the

831
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: compound saw Fisher a week before the murders, not far

832
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: from where police find Mary's suv, maybe stashing supplies or

833
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: scoping out an escape route. Or that the Buddhist helped

834
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: fisher flee, which is laughable. I picture robes of monks

835
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: running through the woods with a gun toting conservative fugitive.

836
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: It's absurd but intriguing, and I have to exhaust every

837
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: lead before every lead exhausts me. So I search and

838
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: search for months, no luck. Then I find Woody kleinb

839
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for playing Where in the world is Carmen

840
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: San Diego with?

841
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 9: I appreciate it.

842
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: Woody is a lifelong resident of HeLa County and a

843
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: member of the Board of Supervisors.

844
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 11: Well, Heila County goes from about twenty eight hundred feet

845
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 11: to over seven thousand feet pushing eight thousand feet, so

846
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 11: you've got all the lower desert type country right up

847
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 11: into the pines, so you got grasslands in between, and

848
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 11: literally you can change climates in about two hours in

849
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 11: Ina County. Is cool, but a lot of people do

850
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 11: have that perspective that we're all desert. We're not. You know,

851
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 11: winter times, we'll get snow down to the thirty five

852
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 11: hundred four thousand foot mark, which puts snow on the

853
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 11: sorrels in the desert. Even on the higher elevations. It's

854
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 11: not uncommon to have two or three feet of snow.

855
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: What he is, and I say this sincerely, thank God,

856
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: familiar with the Buddhist compound. In fact, he now owns

857
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 1: part of it.

858
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 11: I bought the cattle part of it. They had one

859
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 11: hundred and fifty acres right there, and I had the cattle,

860
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 11: and I had a camp and crailes right there next

861
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 11: to them. So I was going through there quite a

862
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 11: bit and talking to him and whatnot.

863
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: You know the name of the ranch, by chance, it's

864
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: the ellen Wood Ranch at ellen Wood.

865
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 11: Yeah Ell INWD.

866
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: The Ellenwood Ranch is fourteen miles west as the crow

867
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: flies of where police find Mary's fore runner. It appears

868
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: to have been owned in two thousand and one by

869
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: a Brooklyn born woman whose followers believe she's a reincarnated

870
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: seventeenth century saint who lived in a cave in the

871
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: mid two thousands. What he takes three members of law

872
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: enforcement to the compound to ask about Robert Fisher.

873
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 11: We honestly didn't spend more than about fifteen minutes in

874
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 11: there with those folks.

875
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 4: I went to the Buddhist calling, I talked to those

876
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 4: people there.

877
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: Former FBI agent Bob Caldwell.

878
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 8: He wasn't there.

879
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 4: They never had contact with him at all. He's not

880
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 4: the kind of person they would allow him there.

881
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 3: Anyway.

882
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 8: I went over there as well.

883
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: Kila County Detective Brian Haby. So you went and investigated

884
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: o lead.

885
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 6: What do you remember that virtually every male subject that

886
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 6: was at the Buddhist camp fit Robert Fisher's description by

887
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 6: their haircut, skin color, so on and so forth. So

888
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 6: it could have been easily a mistaken identity, but they

889
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 6: had seen nobody, and anybody that walks into the Buddhist

890
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 6: camp is recognized and talked to, and so had he

891
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 6: been there, they would have definitely known about it.

892
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 3: Colorado.

893
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: On October eleventh, twenty fourteen, police in Commerce City, Colorado,

894
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: northeast of get a tip that Fisher is hiding in

895
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: a local townhouse. When they respond, two men flee. One

896
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: appears to reach for a weapon, so an officer shoots

897
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: at him and missus. Police catch and fingerprint the men.

898
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: Neither is Fisher. This lead was first reported by the

899
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: Arizona Republic. The traffic stop sometime in the late twenty tens,

900
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: we had.

901
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 14: A traffic stop out in the West Valley.

902
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: Scott Stale, Detective John Heinzelmann.

903
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 14: By a Miracle County Sheriff's deputy where he made a

904
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 14: traffic stop and he said, oh, this is him, and

905
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 14: we rallied. I remember coming to this building from home, like,

906
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 14: get in here right now. They've got him all to

907
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 14: turn around to say, okay, it's not.

908
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 3: The FBI encounter.

909
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: While in Arizona, I interview a Fisher family friend who

910
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: requests anonymity. A few years ago, while touring FBI headquarters

911
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: in DC, she turned a corner and ran into Robert

912
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: Fisher quote and I literally screamed. I mean, it was like, ah,

913
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: and my husband and goes, look, we're at the FBI museum.

914
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: You didn't think he'd be here, And I go, this

915
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,919
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. It was like a full size poster of him.

916
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: It just freaked me out. Okay, yes that was a

917
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: red herring. I'm sorry. It was just too good to

918
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: pass up. She wasn't traumatized. I promise we laughed about

919
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: it together. This story is so deeply sad. It's an

920
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: active defiance to make space for levity. Speaking of the FBI,

921
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: I get why they removed Fisher from the ten most

922
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: Wanted list, but I hope they put him back on it.

923
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: In the meantime, special Agent Taylor Hannah and Scott Still

924
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: Detective John Heinzelman. The current investigators are busy. They get

925
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: leads almost every week, me and John.

926
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 5: Topically you vet them together. Sometimes they come via FBI,

927
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 5: sometimes they come through Scott Stilpadi.

928
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 14: Unfortunately, there's really no good formula to vet tips that

929
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 14: come in, and it's anywhere from on the one side

930
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 14: to say, I'm a psychic in Boise, Idaho, and I

931
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 14: had this vision that I saw him, or all the

932
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 14: way up to he's this guy. I think one that

933
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 14: I had was he's a pastor in a small church

934
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 14: in Wisconsin, and here's his name, and here he is.

935
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 14: So those are kind of things that I'll talk to

936
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 14: folks about. What's an actionable lead or what's something that

937
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 14: I can follow up on a homeless guy in the

938
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 14: streets of Los Angeles. There's not much that we can

939
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 14: really go out and do. But if it's he's living

940
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 14: under this name and he's in this community, then we

941
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 14: have something that we can work up and determine. Okay,

942
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 14: is this person is he just look like him or

943
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 14: is it something that we need to go with it

944
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 14: even further.

945
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: Let's say Robert Fisher is alive. Can you imagine interviewing him?

946
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, that would be my number one interview

947
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 5: I could ever ask for.

948
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: Once more, Brianna Whitney, the host of True Crime Arizona.

949
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 5: I have so many questions. Obviously mean everybody else, but no,

950
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 5: I can't imagine. And honestly, I am quite sure that

951
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 5: if he was found alive, he wouldn't say a word.

952
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: I think the same thing. I feel like if they

953
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: somehow found him, he would say nothing. He would wait

954
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: for an attorney, there would be a trial, and he

955
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: would not be one of these guys that would speak.

956
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: I think he would sit there in silence with a

957
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: smirk on his face.

958
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 5: That's what I think too. I think he's way too

959
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 5: conceded to give away any sort of how he's been

960
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 5: living or what happened.

961
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: Well, and you know, one of the things I asked

962
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: people is how intelligent he was, And everybody has told

963
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: me the same thing, which is like he was kind

964
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: of smart, like not Einstein, not super high Q. But

965
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: if Robert Fisher pulled this off and is alive, this

966
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: was one of the greatest escapes in the history of

967
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: American crime, and that a degree of intelligence.

968
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 5: I was going to say, yeah, if he pulled us

969
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 5: off and he's still alive, then he's smarter than everybody thinks.

970
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 5: You can't be mediocre and pulled this off.

971
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: Summer twenty twenty three, Chris and I are still hiking

972
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: to the cryptic cabin, the hideaway shack, a tipster told

973
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: us about sixteen miles north of where police found Mary's forerunner.

974
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: But I don't think this is safe. I think we

975
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: should turn around. Well, that's unfortunate. That's better than what

976
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: breaking your leg and tumbling down five hundred feet Again

977
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: for everybody listening at home, Yeah, we have no cell service.

978
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: It's just me and Chris. We're in hiking boots. But

979
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: we're on the side of this very steep hill more

980
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: than forty five degree angle, probably fifty or sixty degrees.

981
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: You're one slippery rock away from tumbling down five hundred

982
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: six hundred feet. It's spraining your ankle or breaking your leg.

983
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: There's no clear path for us to get to these coordinates.

984
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would take us safely probably

985
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: another few hours, and we're not even that far. As

986
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: the crow flies it's also getting darker. It looks like

987
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: it a thunderstorm, and we've still got a hike a

988
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: mile and a half. We should go, Can you lead

989
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: us out? We tried so we don't make it to

990
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: the cabin, but I review photos of it. It's petite

991
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: and made of logs. To get in, you crouch down

992
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: and crawl through a small door. Inside there's dirt covered detritis,

993
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: a rake, a saw, a frying pan, a cooler, white mugs,

994
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: a Folger's coffee container, no sign of a pistol or

995
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: winter green tobacco.

996
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 8: Ten.

997
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: As we come to a clo I want to review

998
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 1: all the leads we covered in this episode. Am Nosy Neighbor,

999
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: the bunker rye Barra hitchhiker paysin Walmart, paysin Bashi's Colorado,

1000
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: tow truck driver, pawn Shop, old Ford traffic Stop, Oak Flat,

1001
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: Tortilla Flat, the Baby Blue Truck, Mexico, Canada, Finland, Australia,

1002
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: No More Singing, Guatemala, Malicious Gap, the Pyramids, the medical Magazine,

1003
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: the two thousand and three neighbor leads, the Buddhist compound,

1004
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: the gold Panting Hermit, the canyon Man, the mountain Man,

1005
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: the sheepherder's cabin, Fossil Creek, Burglar, FBI headquarters, even this

1006
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: damn shack ah, so many leads. We didn't start the fire,

1007
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: but we're looking for the man who did. Coming up

1008
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: a rocky hill with my henley choking my neck so

1009
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: that the mic doesn't slide too far down, only the

1010
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: best audio for our loyal fans want to capture this

1011
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: and all it's glory. So if I coumble down a

1012
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: hillside and they find this, they'll be very sad, but

1013
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 1: at least at least still have an ending. Next time

1014
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm missing in Arizona, her husband recall and red friny

1015
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: messages for.

1016
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 5: Robert Oh yeah, oh yeah.

1017
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 4: Someone had mentioned he might be homosexual, and maybe it

1018
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: was his homosexual lover.

1019
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three

1020
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: three new tips that's one eight three three six three

1021
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips at

1022
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com, tip s at iHeartMedia dot com, online

1023
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: at neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter at

1024
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 1: John Wallzac j O n W A. L. Czak. Paul

1025
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: Duckan is our executive producer. Chris Brown is our supervising producer.

1026
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: Hannah Rose Snyder is our producer, Paul Gemperlin is our researcher,

1027
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: Ben Bowen is a consulting producer, and I'm your host

1028
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: and executive producer John Wallzac special thanks to Bring Whitney.

1029
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: If people want to follow you on socials or anything,

1030
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: where can they find you?

1031
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 5: I'm on the mall, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. I mean all

1032
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 5: of it's the same. It's at Brianna Whitney. Brianna only

1033
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 5: have one in.

1034
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: Additional production support provided by Ben Hackett. Recreations voiced by

1035
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, Matt Frederick and Ben Bollen. Header titles voiced

1036
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: by Me and morphed with altered AI software. Cover art

1037
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: by Pam Peacock. Neon thirty three logo designed by Derek Rudy.

1038
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: Our intro song is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download

1039
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: the first two seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska

1040
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: and Missing on nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined,

1041
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: give us a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is

1042
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: a co production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three