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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature the show where we look at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of human and animal behaviors, finding the beasts

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Speaker 1: inside of us and the humanity hidden inside animals. I'm

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Speaker 1: Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology at Harvard

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Speaker 1: and I pretend to be a bird on Twitter. Today

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Speaker 1: we'll be talking about outlaws, animals and people who have

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Speaker 1: turned to the life of crime. Will answer questions like

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Speaker 1: dragons exist in West Rows, but can you also find

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Speaker 1: them in Australia? What fishy business are aquatic connartists up to?

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Speaker 1: And of course the age old question, oh you good boy?

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Speaker 1: With me? Today is Alec Schmidt, comedian and host of

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Speaker 1: the Cracked podcast. Alex and I are going to look

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Speaker 1: at a couple of the most unlikely paramaniacs from both

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Speaker 1: the natural and human world. So I live and I

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Speaker 1: grew up in southern California, UM, where we don't have

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Speaker 1: snow days, we have fire days. And instead of looking

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Speaker 1: outside at this white winter wonderland, you see this orange

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Speaker 1: sun in a red sky and ash raining down and

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Speaker 1: it was really scary. Uh. And I think it was

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Speaker 1: this idea that you can have this relatively small fire

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Speaker 1: that starts to burn out of control, and no matter

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Speaker 1: how much we try to contain it, it just has

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Speaker 1: this will of its own that that can't really be stopped.

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Speaker 1: And I think the reason I'm afraid of fire, those

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Speaker 1: same reasons might be why a paramaniac is actually attracted

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Speaker 1: to it, the idea of this uncontrollable, huge event that

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Speaker 1: just spirals into this massive inferno. So Alex and I

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Speaker 1: are going to look at a couple of the most

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Speaker 1: unlikely paramaniacs from both the natural and human all and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna try to find out what makes them want

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Speaker 1: to watch the world burn. So, Alex, have you have

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Speaker 1: you done crimes? You're gonna the jinx right now. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I've ever done any crimes that I can

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Speaker 1: think of. Yeah, like not like not a crime, crime

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Speaker 1: for sure, Well, you know, crimes. We feel like crimes

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Speaker 1: is sort of a human only phenomenon um, and it's

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm here to challenge that notion that

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Speaker 1: only yeah catching up to us. There, they're the animals

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Speaker 1: and the probably you know, bacteria also are catching up.

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Speaker 1: I don't think bacteria isn't anyways, They're they're catching up

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Speaker 1: to us competition, right they're barging into the organized crime

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Speaker 1: of humans. Uh so I want to talk about a

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Speaker 1: few crimes. Let's get into it. I want to start with,

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Speaker 1: to me, one of the scariest kinds of things, which

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Speaker 1: is um pyromania. Like I've always had an enormous respect

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Speaker 1: for fire because it's very frightening. Yeah, Like there's a

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Speaker 1: fire and you like tip your cap to it. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you're like, good dave, Mr Fire, please don't burn me.

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Speaker 1: I always call fire by its last name. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so pyromania is this fascination with fire. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: most people kind of like you see a camp fire,

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Speaker 1: it's like neat, but this goes far beyond that. It's

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, it is exciting, even at a really young age.

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Speaker 1: Like I was part of Y m C, a Indian

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Speaker 1: guides as a kid, and so we would go camping

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Speaker 1: and do campouts, and like the dads would all be

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Speaker 1: trying to start the fire, but we'd be all like,

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Speaker 1: let me start the fire. I want to be you know.

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Speaker 1: And my family didn't do it, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: families I knew would drive I grew up around Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and they would drive over the border to Indiana just

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Speaker 1: to get fireworks because they didn't sell them in Illinois,

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Speaker 1: so they sold them at exit one of every Indiana

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Speaker 1: Highway and you would buy them there and truck them

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Speaker 1: all back and then just like lite them off in

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Speaker 1: a driveway because they're illegal. Yeah, you weren't allowed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I've heard there's other states like that, Like I

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Speaker 1: think New Hampshire it's legal and Misachusetts it isn't. There's

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Speaker 1: a but there's a bunch of like symbiotic relationships where

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Speaker 1: one state sells it to two states. You know, I

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Speaker 1: lived in a very sort of in a tinder box

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Speaker 1: because I lived in southern California and Sandy Yes, um

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Speaker 1: so fireworks were super not not cool and also just

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Speaker 1: not really socially accepted because it was just like, don't

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Speaker 1: don't burn us all down, please. Oh yeah. I remember

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Speaker 1: one time my mom got us sparklers, which is not

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Speaker 1: an illegal firework, but like I thought it was, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was just dizzy with excitement. I

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Speaker 1: was like, we're committing arson crime before the jewel, Why

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Speaker 1: we're breaking California law right, the strongest law, the most

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Speaker 1: exciting moment of my life, and it's all been pretty plateaued.

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Speaker 1: From there. But I mean it's interesting because pyromania is

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Speaker 1: it's not like Arson where you're setting a fire too

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Speaker 1: clean evidence of your misdeeds. It's like you the feeling

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Speaker 1: of setting that fire and watching the fire and it's

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Speaker 1: like it's a thrill. Um. Yeah, you're like that narration

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Speaker 1: from fahrekneight. But all the time, if the whole book

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Speaker 1: was just look at the fire, look at it, like

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Speaker 1: there's no plot or nothing. Yeah, exactly. Can even be

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Speaker 1: kind of like it can be a fetish, which is

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Speaker 1: weird to me because it's like, you know, typically it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it can kill you. To me, it's like

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Speaker 1: having a fetish of like the ocean and drowning. Wait wait,

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Speaker 1: so you're kink shaming people who drown or burden to death?

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Speaker 1: Is death sex positive? This is an extremely uh death

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Speaker 1: sex positive show. So this is a crazy story. Um there,

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Speaker 1: we're a bunch of Arson's in l a and uh

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Speaker 1: this is in the I think in the eighties, and

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Speaker 1: the fire investigators are kind of stumped and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're chasing all these leads not really fine in anything,

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Speaker 1: and they had their that old corkboard next to my

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Speaker 1: broccoli crimes. They're like, we gotta get these fire crimes.

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Speaker 1: They probably they should have just let the broccoli crimes

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Speaker 1: go and then you know, combine the task forces. But

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Speaker 1: is there a connection? But yeah, I mean there were

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Speaker 1: serious fires. About four people died, um, because you know

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Speaker 1: that's the arsonist was setting fire to stores and while

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Speaker 1: people were in sights. It was very very scary stores

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Speaker 1: in Metro l A Like yeah yeah, um. And he

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Speaker 1: would like put like set up incendiary devices and then

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Speaker 1: like those would like slowly kind of go off so

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Speaker 1: he could leave and escape. And I guess watched from

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Speaker 1: afar um and this one investigator was like, this is weird.

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Speaker 1: There's like a string of arson's between the arson investigation conventions,

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Speaker 1: like the conventions for fire investigators, like because like they

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Speaker 1: have conventions, Yeah they do. Oh man, that sounds really fun.

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Speaker 1: It's just a room full of people like carefully watching

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Speaker 1: the room they're in, you know what I mean. Like

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Speaker 1: someone's like cosplaying is a fire and they're like, dude,

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Speaker 1: not appropriate. Um. Yeah, And so he's saying like maybe

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Speaker 1: the arsonist is a fire investigator, and like nobody believed him.

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Speaker 1: But then he was comparing the lists of attendees to

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Speaker 1: the like all the ones like where there were sort

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Speaker 1: of like he could draw a line like here's a

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Speaker 1: Arson Investigator convention, and then a line of these Arsons

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Speaker 1: and then another one. And so he he compared the

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Speaker 1: lists of attendees to the ones that were the sort

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Speaker 1: of the locust points, and he found about like, I

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Speaker 1: think they're only handful of people. So it made the

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Speaker 1: investigational a lot easier. And they finally caught the sky

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Speaker 1: John leonard Or, who was an Arson investigator and he

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Speaker 1: was actually briefly being consulted on this very case like

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Speaker 1: his own arsening crimes, and uh, it was devastating because

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Speaker 1: everyone was like, we had no idea that I mean,

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Speaker 1: he seemed like seemed really passionate about stopping fires, not causing. Well,

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Speaker 1: he's like fire Dexter, you know the TV Exter where

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Speaker 1: he's like solving serial killer. He's fired Exter. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: They should call it fired Exter and make a show

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Speaker 1: right copyrighted here, we get to make it. D M. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we need fire, Michael C. Hall, we need fire. Whoever

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Speaker 1: wrote the show. I know so little about this that

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Speaker 1: I cannot contribute to this. Alex, You're going to have

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Speaker 1: to carry the bit as you can tell, I do

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Speaker 1: one actor's name, so pretty good. Okay, here's the best part.

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Speaker 1: I mean, none of this is good. Disclaimer, fire Arson

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Speaker 1: is bad pyromania doing it and destroying property and endangering people.

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Speaker 1: It's so much shaming on this, but you know it's

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Speaker 1: just a little shaming. I just want to commit a

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Speaker 1: crime and die a bit um. But okay. He was

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Speaker 1: also a novelist, an amateur novelist, perfect, and so he

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Speaker 1: could write fired Exter. He wrote fired Exter. No he did, Alex,

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Speaker 1: you were joking, but he didn't. He wrote fired Dexter.

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Speaker 1: He wrote about an arsonist called Aaron Styles, and uh

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Speaker 1: and it was like he described all of his motivations

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Speaker 1: and how he got like how he like got a

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Speaker 1: boner from starting fires and like and just all this

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Speaker 1: insight into this character's psychology, which you know, upon reviewing

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Speaker 1: you're like, maybe that's him. And then investigators worked out

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Speaker 1: that Aaron Styles, the name of the book's protagonists is

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Speaker 1: an anagram for I set l a Arson. This is

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Speaker 1: like it's a book where when you would get to

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Speaker 1: that point, you'd be like, come on, crime writer, what's

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Speaker 1: a crime writer? Who does crime writings and Patricia cornwell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah exactly, like like come on, like two on the nose.

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Speaker 1: But it's crazy. It's like, get these guys on the

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Speaker 1: Zodiac killer? Why why aren't they on the Zodiac? Right?

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Speaker 1: They worked out this like intensely constructed puzzle from where

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Speaker 1: the calls coming from inside the police station or like

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Speaker 1: okay here like between the fire conventions. It's like a movie,

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Speaker 1: and I am shocked and appalled that this movie has

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Speaker 1: not been made. Yeah, exact well even not to not

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Speaker 1: to celebrate this insane person, but like setting fires in stores?

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Speaker 1: Is he doing that because because four people died? I

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Speaker 1: assume he's set way more fires than that, Like is

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Speaker 1: he burning stores because he thinks no one will be

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Speaker 1: in there at night or something and so he can

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Speaker 1: like get his fire without a death or something. No,

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Speaker 1: I think it was He's probably just a maniac. I

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Speaker 1: think I think he's he's set the fires like wild

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Speaker 1: people were still in it. It doesn't seem like it

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like he necessarily had the motive of killing people.

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Speaker 1: But I think he just you know, he was like

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Speaker 1: a psychopath and he didn't care whether you know, he

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Speaker 1: killed people um, and he just maybe he did it

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Speaker 1: during the day because it was more exciting, Like the

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Speaker 1: idea of getting caught and doing it in public was

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Speaker 1: more Oh these were daytime fires. Yeah, yeah, it could

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Speaker 1: be like uh, it was just like people were around.

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Speaker 1: He was just like, you know, witness my terrible fires.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, it's always confused, Like they talk about it

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Speaker 1: being really powerful, and it's like it's always kind of

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Speaker 1: confused me because like it's really easy to start a

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Speaker 1: fire even when you don't want to. Like yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: like all these all these people with these compulsions, like

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Speaker 1: it makes me glad. I don't like anything, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like there's stuff that's cool, but I'm

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Speaker 1: not like that into anything, and it is probably really

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Speaker 1: good for my life that I'm not, because like if

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Speaker 1: you're that into anything at all, you become an errand

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Speaker 1: styles or something, you know. Jeez. I'm actually kind of

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Speaker 1: surprised we haven't had like a pyromania horror movie, you know,

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Speaker 1: half wey like I don't know, yeah, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: horror expert, so I wouldn't know for sure. I mean

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Speaker 1: there might be one, but I can't think of one

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Speaker 1: that's really like mainstream where the kind of Texas chainsaw

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Speaker 1: massacre style, but he has like a flamethrower. Oh that

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Speaker 1: would be awesome. Actually, it's like it's a lot scarier

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Speaker 1: to me because it's like it's not just him like

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Speaker 1: being there, like he's actively modifying the environment to be

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Speaker 1: hostile to you. Yeah, I'm assuming it's a heat but

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Speaker 1: that's that's sexist. He or she the or anyone this

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Speaker 1: fire fire uh fire villain, yeah, a fire persons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they like I guess an Avatar the Last

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Speaker 1: Airbender they somewhat did that, but that wasn't really a whore.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of oh yeah, yeah, there's that like

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Speaker 1: fantasy realm trope of like the classical four elements and

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Speaker 1: fire is a kind of magic kind of thing, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's not really the same thing because it's sort

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Speaker 1: of you don't get a sense of foreboding. It's just

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Speaker 1: like action. Like I think that I'm curious why we

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Speaker 1: haven't Why we I don't. I don't know where I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I've never directed because I'm lazy. I haven't gotten around

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Speaker 1: um Alex's horror movie like Snoop. When Snoopy comes, there's

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Speaker 1: my wrist, but for doing it. Yeah, you should follow

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Speaker 1: Alex's Twitter at Alex at Alex Yeah, where he posts

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Speaker 1: snoopies sometimes. Yeah, I don't drum, but I feel like

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Speaker 1: a picture of Snoopy playing the saxophone is just generally

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Speaker 1: more exciting than most of the tweet, and I encourage

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Speaker 1: people to just start posting that. Yeah, I won't you

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Speaker 1: won't find an argument here, but yeah, I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just imagine being sort of like

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Speaker 1: being chased down a dark halloway and then you run

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Speaker 1: to the other end of the hallway, but then that's

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Speaker 1: on fire, so you have to go back, and then

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Speaker 1: the killer is there. It's like it's such a scary

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Speaker 1: because it's like it's they're controlling everything around you and

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Speaker 1: you're just sort of hoplessly trying to escape. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: almost feels like it'd be a Batman villain or something,

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Speaker 1: because they have that for everything else, like there's a

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Speaker 1: guy calendar and everything. You know, they have the Ice guy,

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Speaker 1: which is much less scary than fire, Like who's afraid

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Speaker 1: of ice? Yeah? Yeah, they basically need a fire version

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Speaker 1: of Mr Freeze. That would be great fire to meet

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Speaker 1: you just the exact same fun structure, but you put

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Speaker 1: in the word fire comedy genius. You all need to

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Speaker 1: fire out. It makes sense. I'm going to flame away.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't even think that was a joke

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Speaker 1: by the Freeze guy. Schwartzenegger could sell it right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well I've got I've got bad news for small animals

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Speaker 1: in Australia. A platypus just dropped its iPhone. What it's

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Speaker 1: like one of those news stingers, like bad news for

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Speaker 1: animals in Australia, and they're like, oh crap, but after

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Speaker 1: the commercials odd damn it. Um. So there are these

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Speaker 1: birds of prey that are not just satisfied with screaming

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Speaker 1: fiery anger down at the little animals. They're also like, no,

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Speaker 1: we'll set actual fires and flush the little mammals out

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Speaker 1: and the need them. Yeah, it's this. It's a new

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Speaker 1: definitely a new discovery. So there's not been anything that like,

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Speaker 1: there's not like solid research behind it, but they're basing

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Speaker 1: it on anecdotal evidence of researchers and also, um, the

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Speaker 1: indigenous population has long known about this or long documented

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Speaker 1: and they call them fire hawks and they have this

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Speaker 1: really cool uh, they have this cool ceremony where people

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Speaker 1: will act out as birds carrying smoldering branch is and

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Speaker 1: you know there, I think it's that's really convincing that

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Speaker 1: this is definitely been happening for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: so like the birds will it's not that they start

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Speaker 1: a fire from nothing. There's like a fire that exists

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Speaker 1: because they're not they're not agile enough to like take

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Speaker 1: a flint just like they've got like like they're trying

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Speaker 1: to do the thing where they get the stick and

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Speaker 1: the thing and that you're ribbing the stick really fast,

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Speaker 1: so the friction causes the fire like with their little wings, like,

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Speaker 1: but they pick up like a smoldering stick from the

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Speaker 1: existing fire and then carry it over to a prey

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Speaker 1: dense area where they where the hunting is good and

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Speaker 1: then like set a fire and then like them and

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Speaker 1: all their buddies just kind of like as as like

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Speaker 1: the little little lizards and little roads, like they get

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Speaker 1: out of the fire like few at least that's over.

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Speaker 1: Oh No, what's really crazy is like these birds, these

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Speaker 1: like pyromaniac birds that are extremely scary for the little rodents, like,

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Speaker 1: but they may have actually helped shape the savannah because

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Speaker 1: if they're if they're spreading fire, they're they're changing the

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Speaker 1: environment of the savannah. They're like, I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: a fire expert, but I would assume it has a

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Speaker 1: lot to do with you know, you're kind of creating

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Speaker 1: new growth and getting rid of old growth, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's the thing in some ecosystems, I think,

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Speaker 1: Like I like, growing up in Illinois, we had the

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Speaker 1: mostly former prairie. You know, it used to be the

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Speaker 1: entire bit west. Now it's just very specific spots. But uh,

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Speaker 1: something that we were taught frequently, especially because sometimes we see,

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Speaker 1: like I live near one, and there'd be a column

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Speaker 1: of smoke coming up from it and I'd be like,

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Speaker 1: that seems wrong. But we would be told frequently like

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Speaker 1: prairies need to burn with some regularity. You must burn

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Speaker 1: to please the prairie gods, which is a prairie dog

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Speaker 1: spelled backwards, thank you for celebrating my faith. No, And

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Speaker 1: like so a guy with the name that's an anagram

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Speaker 1: for I love burning prairies would tell us that you

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Speaker 1: need to burn the prairie because, like the plant, there

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Speaker 1: will be too many old dead plants and they just

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Speaker 1: need to be cleared out and then as soon as

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Speaker 1: it burns like that charred stuff becomes very good fertilizer

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of benefits to uh just consistently

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Speaker 1: burning down some py and so they would do that,

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Speaker 1: and maybe the Australian environment is kind of like that.

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Speaker 1: I guess they have a few kinds of Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it. You know, fire has definitely has an impact

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Speaker 1: on the Yea in the epic or whatever. Um, but

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Speaker 1: it's really I mean, like definitely keep your eyes open

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Speaker 1: everybody for research about about these birds because like you know,

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Speaker 1: not it's it's all on right on the cusp of

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Speaker 1: like finding out what's going on, and it's really exciting,

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Speaker 1: uh because I think that'd be crazy if like birds

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Speaker 1: setting fires to terrorize rodents like shaped the Australian outback

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Speaker 1: just like it's it's like, you know, we think of

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Speaker 1: big environmental changes being something like big like a glacier,

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Speaker 1: not like this like little falcon with like fire right

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Speaker 1: like a very slow period of time, but not like

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Speaker 1: just a jerk bird burn it. Well, it's amazing too

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Speaker 1: that you said that science is just starting to maybe

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Speaker 1: prove this and there's a local tradition where people re

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Speaker 1: enact it. Yeah, fully, like we all know this is

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Speaker 1: happening and we do it right. I mean, I would

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Speaker 1: bet that there's it's probably a new sadly a new

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Speaker 1: trend for researchers to actually pay attention to non Western cultures.

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Speaker 1: Oh these are sorry, these are like Aboriginal people. Yes,

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Speaker 1: indigenous people know what I should call um? Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that's that's okay, but like, yeah, so they they've

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Speaker 1: had this long doc umented um. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting. We sometimes you know, don't pay

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Speaker 1: as much attention to, uh, non Western histories. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's really great that the researchers are working with, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the native culture and yeah, and against

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Speaker 1: the birds. We must unite to defeat the birds. It's

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Speaker 1: like how we end all hate is just fighting birds.

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Speaker 1: Though pyromanian today's society is destructive behavior. At some point

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Speaker 1: early humans had to have an arsonist streak to be

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Speaker 1: able to learn to utilize fire. How did we go

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Speaker 1: from being fearful of flamed to actively trying to attain it?

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Speaker 1: One clue maybe in the behavior of chimpanzees. Primatologist Jill

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Speaker 1: Purts witness the strangely calm demeanor of chimps in the

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Speaker 1: midst of wildfire. People in the region do controlled burns

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Speaker 1: to clear the land and aid in hunting. Though most

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Speaker 1: of the animals flee and terror the chimp seemed relatively unflappable.

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Speaker 1: Parts observed that quote, they were so calm about it.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot better than I was, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: I was surprised at how expert they were handling the fire.

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Speaker 1: She also saw male chimps doing a quote fire dance.

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Speaker 1: It's a dominance display that was modified to be slower

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Speaker 1: and directed towards the fire. This may be an indication

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Speaker 1: of how human ancestors began to master their fear of

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Speaker 1: fire and a foreshadowing of burning man. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: moment to cool off with a few messages. Back soon

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Speaker 1: with more lawbreak environments. So cheaters represent a huge conundrum

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and also in human philosophy. Adam Smith,

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Speaker 1: the Invisible hand Dude, is a famous economist and author

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Speaker 1: of the Wealth of Nations. He's often credited as the

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Speaker 1: first opponent of the idea of the free market the

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Speaker 1: unrestrained ability to compete. So here's the problem. If nature

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Speaker 1: or human society operates in the free market, wouldn't it

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Speaker 1: become inundated with stammers and connartists. How can a group

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Speaker 1: of social animals remain stable when the rewards of cheating

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Speaker 1: are so damn good? Any cooperative society should, in theory,

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Speaker 1: crumble because natural selection will always reward swindlers. Steve Frank

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Speaker 1: is a professor of evolutionary biology at the University of

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Speaker 1: California at Irvine. He studies the problem of cheaters in

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Speaker 1: evolutionary genetics, and one of these talks took an unexpected

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Speaker 1: turn towards moral philosophy. He pointed out that there's a

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Speaker 1: lesser known second part to Adam Smith's work, a book

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Speaker 1: called Moral Sentiments. In this work, Smith re examines the

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Speaker 1: idea of the free market, pointing out that if it's

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Speaker 1: in a collective's interest, they will work together to suppress

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Speaker 1: the activity of these is taking the advantage of the group,

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Speaker 1: So our free markets never truly free. Alex Schmidt and

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Speaker 1: I will discuss whether fish might have the answer. Later,

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Speaker 1: we'll find out what your genome has to do with

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Speaker 1: moral philosophy. Alex, Yeah, are you ever gullible for things? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Just generally, Um, yeah, I don't. I don't have something

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Speaker 1: like jump in a mind immediately for it. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like I spend a solid chunk of many days

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Speaker 1: or weeks just being like do you mean that for real?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm like, I'm like earnestly interested. People will joke

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Speaker 1: about like, yeah, I guess i'd like go to the

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Speaker 1: moon or something, and I'm like, so you're interested in

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Speaker 1: being an astronaut for really, but that'll pretty frequently happen

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Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: put you on the spot because I'm very glible to

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Speaker 1: like I um, sometimes I don't pick up on sarcasm

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Speaker 1: or like someone will say something and cry do ble

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Speaker 1: and like really because like I like to think of

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Speaker 1: it as just being very open minded. Uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like I would be very excited to be surprised by

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Speaker 1: life just all of the time. And so a lot

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Speaker 1: of times people will think they've nailed being completely over

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Speaker 1: the top with something crazy and then no they haven't.

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Speaker 1: I want to find out if that's true. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. I've always like whenever people say I have

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Speaker 1: a bridge to sell you, you know, like you fall

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Speaker 1: for fall for someone someone's prank and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have a bridge to sell you. I don't get

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Speaker 1: it because it's like, okay, I don't why would I

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Speaker 1: want a bridge? Why would you be selling me a bridge? Um?

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Speaker 1: But I just found out that Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I found out what it means, which is a you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea that you would trick someone into thinking that

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Speaker 1: person would own the bridge and then we would sell

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Speaker 1: it to you. Um. But it was based on an

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Speaker 1: actual con artist. His name was George Parker. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: was criminally active around the turn of the century, and

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Speaker 1: he would he would literally sell people the Brooklyn Bridge.

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Speaker 1: And I mean this is a new fact to me.

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Speaker 1: I apologize if like everybody knows this, but me, I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, do you guys know this? Because I think

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Speaker 1: I know a bridge sales story, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's the same thing where like somebody sold the

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Speaker 1: London Bridge to some town in the US something like that. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that one. But they also thought they

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Speaker 1: were buying what's actually called Tower Bridge in London. That's

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Speaker 1: the famous one that's has very tall towers on it.

423
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: And then every other bridge across the Thames is like

424
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: just kind of a regular bridge, and so they moved

425
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: this enormous regular bridge to this town. Yeah, that's crazy

426
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: that there's like more than one bridge scams, Like, yeah,

427
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: I don't know who's buying them, no, and I don't know,

428
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Like like when you're trying to be a connorist, you're like, well,

429
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: what what would be a good conical bridge? Right? The

430
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: class maneuver of selling infrastructure sexy infrastructure. Infrastructure is hot

431
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: right now, that is a con I'm different from just

432
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: getting a job. Yes, yes, um so George Parker. He

433
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: would also sell things like the Statue of Liberty, um,

434
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: just landmarks and pieces of property he definitely did not own,

435
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: but he had like he forged documents as it was

436
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: like like see here on this paper it says I

437
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: own the bridge, I will sell it to you and

438
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: like and some people would like actually go up and

439
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: set up tolls on the bridge, thinking they were now

440
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: the owners, and police would be like ha, buddy, no

441
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: or what like I guess it was a turn of

442
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: the centuries. Like listen, guy got squeezed. They just kick

443
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 1: him out. Yeah, well so I have I want you

444
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: to go on an imagination journey with me. Alex oh

445
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: about is about a very strange scam. Uh So, imagine

446
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: you're going in. Well, first of all, you gotta imagine

447
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: you have really long hair, uh like like Jesus levels

448
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: of of of great hair. Yeah, okay, you're there, good um,

449
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: and you just kind of want general trim, you maybe

450
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: want some layering and styling Alla Jesus um. And you know,

451
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: you're just kind of relaxing, and then you tear around

452
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: and you know it's like all your hair is on

453
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: the floor and big piles. You're like, what the heck

454
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: did you just do? I don't look like Jesus anymore?

455
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: I look like you know, John Stoffel. Wait, wait, so

456
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: they gave me an incredible mustache. The hair has fallen

457
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: onto your upper lip um and the hair stylist apologist saying, oh,

458
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you wanted a

459
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: big and you're you're just you're fuming because you know

460
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: you had been oiling and conditioning this hair for months

461
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: and it was great, and and you leave in a

462
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: huff and then you return. Um, hey, look in the window,

463
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: and there's a wig that looks suspiciously similar to your hair.

464
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: You're wonderful Christ like locks. Yeah, and then I go

465
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: on TV and starstle them out of business, go on

466
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: yelp and go like this, John Stoffel is unhappy. Um,

467
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: there is this is an actual thing. But in fish Land.

468
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: So fish land does that clarify to it? Where we

469
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: are society, un sometown, sometown, sometown, ocean, oceansburg. Um. So

470
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're saying, like, well, fish don't have hair, haitie,

471
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: you're dumb. Good point. Um Yeah, yeah, calm the heck down,

472
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: Alex god. Um. So, uh they're a little these really

473
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: pretty little fish called cleaner rass, and uh, they do

474
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: this incredibly important function for coral reef communities because like

475
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: the coral reefs, which are all dying, um have are

476
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: so cared about not just because they're pretty, but because

477
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: they are the homes of a huge variety of fish

478
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: and they all kind of congregate there like a little,

479
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: just like in Finding Nemo. Finding Nemo is like basically

480
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: a documentary. They're the big cities of swim down right right. Yeah,

481
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: it's the it's the Chicago. But I mean that wasn't

482
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: the best best word play I could have done. But

483
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: Alex is from Chicago. That was the one closest to

484
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: my heart. I really appreciate it. You should have said

485
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: ship cargo. But also, fish don't do chips. They don't

486
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: need them, right, right, so never mind. That was fine.

487
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: So fish have this um mucus membrane covering them and

488
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: it protects them. It's it's like if you've ever had

489
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: a fish tank, sometimes you put in stuff like stress coat,

490
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: and that's that's sort of like it's to keep this

491
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: membrane healthy and it protects their skin. But they also

492
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: get little parasites which are really bothersome for fish because

493
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: they can't scratch um. So the little cleaner else go

494
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,479
Speaker 1: up to the fish and he's like, hey, buddy, you

495
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: want your body detail, and uh. They will go all

496
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: over the fish and pick off these little parasites. And

497
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: fish will lineup for this like they're at a little

498
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:58,239
Speaker 1: car wash and just be like just patiently waiting, like

499
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: oh boy, it's my turn x right, like a like

500
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: an enormous barbershop situation, right right, but there's only one

501
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: barber um, So yeah, it's and you'd think, like that's perfect.

502
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: Fish are wonderful. We could learn a lot from fish.

503
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: But here's the here's the problem is that slimy muca

504
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: see stress coat that I was talking about. It's apparently

505
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: real good. It's a real good tasting, it's super delicious.

506
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to need a second opinion. Um well in

507
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: in uh in fish land, it is like it is

508
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: the prime for a little clean arounds. It is like

509
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: their crack. So they really want to nibble on this

510
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: this sweet sweet snot coat and uh they but the

511
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: fish don't want that because it's like must slime give

512
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: me back by slime. It's it's bad for them to

513
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: get their slime chewed off. There's their key, their protective

514
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: bugs gotta have it. And so this is where it

515
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: gets like really interesting because this is like economics in fish. Okay,

516
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make economics sound really fun because it's fish. Yeah.

517
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: So the cleaner grass, which are the little little conmon

518
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: sometimes are you know, they want to get at that mucus.

519
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: But they will um, they'll try a little nibble every

520
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: once in a while, and the fish are like, hey,

521
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: don't do it. And then the fish, if they're noticing

522
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: that the cleaner rass is nibbling too much on their

523
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: their cool slime, like they boycott them. They stopped going

524
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: to their business and and it's it's like they get

525
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: on fish yelp and they're like, don't go here, he'll

526
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: eat your slime. I didn't come in to get my

527
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: slime eaten, just just the bugs on my skin. Um

528
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: and uh. And they'll actually the cleaner mouths if like

529
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: the fish shows anger, which I'm not I guess fish

530
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: show anger by kind of chasing them around and like

531
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: making a real like oh you face. They don't yell

532
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: like Albert Press why I oughta um. But but then

533
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: they'll kind of like they'll try to play Kate the

534
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: angry cuffed Stomer by kind of like giving them a

535
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: little massage like I'm sorry, buddy, a massage. Yeah. Yeah,

536
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: this is like I am so glad we are a

537
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: species that can like deal with our own self cleaning

538
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: and like has hands and arms and stuff. Like so

539
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: much of the animal kingdom just goes around waiting for

540
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: another animal to clean it up, like those rhinos with

541
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: little birds on them, just like somebody hell, like what

542
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: a what a nightmare? We're the best, really great, but

543
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: there is that like the blind the blind zone, like right,

544
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: sort of like that one spot on your act. That's

545
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: the blind zone. But then we can also we're like

546
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: we can you can do the bear thing where you

547
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: like you know, get like a nice jagged wall and

548
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: get that blind spot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, so we're the

549
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: perfect animal. Yeah. And I also I didn't know if

550
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: fish could give the equivalent of a massage because they're

551
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: handless and they're freaky. Well I it's kind of like, um,

552
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: they sort of like go up to them and kind

553
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: of rub their rub their like dorsal fins against them

554
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: or something. It's kind of it's sort of weird. It's

555
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: like the back scratch with the wall. Yeah, yeah, a

556
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: little bit like like it's not they're not quite like

557
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: getting in there and like you know actually sort of

558
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: like doing the doing a whole like like doing a

559
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: little chopping motions on the back. Um. But uh and

560
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: then here and then like they're like market forces. So

561
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: when there are plenty of clients, um, the clean arounds

562
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: will take more chances and do more do more crimes,

563
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: which you know, it is kind of like similar like

564
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: when there are companies that have no competition and lots

565
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: of customers, they'll try to get away this stuff like

566
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: offshore bank accounts are like, you know, eating people's mucus.

567
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: Now I have a new thing to compare the cable

568
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: company to perfect time. Ward are always eating my slime.

569
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: They also cheat less when they noticed that they're being

570
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: watched by potential future clients, so they're they're like they're like,

571
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: oh no, I'm I'm I might get yelped. Yeah, what

572
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: do we we need? Can we call it kelp yelped?

573
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I could have just had kelped. God

574
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: damn it. But that's great. Yes, that's excellent. I'm just

575
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: kind of a pillar of stown community, you know, keep

576
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: it going. Um, the sou They also this is like

577
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: it gets really sophisticated. So the cleaners will perform extra

578
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: services for big fish that are sort of from outside

579
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: the reef literal big fish. Yeah. So like it's sort

580
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: of like if you've ever I don't know people who

581
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: have ever had office jobs or something where you have like, um,

582
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: you have like people flown in, important people kind of

583
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: coming from like corporate and then like they get to

584
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: cut in front of the gosh darn lunchline because they've

585
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: been flown in and they're important, I guess, um. But yeah,

586
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: so they'll they're trying to reward these fish for choosing

587
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: their particular reef, and they're like, hey, come on back

588
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: to Joe's reef because we give you dorsal fin massages.

589
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: That's such a I'm just realizing that as humans, we

590
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: have so many idioms for like somebody being a big fish,

591
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: or even like oh, whale, you know, they're very importan

592
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: shark tank. Yes, we used the ocean to describe most business,

593
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: and the ocean has business going. It's like it's it's

594
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: sa capitalism. Let's revisit Steve Frank, the evolutionary biologists with

595
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: a fondness for moral philosophy. Frank has an interesting idea

596
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: on rals and ethics explaining the human genome. John Rawls

597
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: was a twentieth century moral philosopher who spent a lot

598
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: of time thinking about fairness. One of his theories was

599
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: the veil of ignorance. It's the idea that in order

600
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: to create a truly just and fair society, you should

601
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: make the rules while still naive about your place in

602
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: that society, so you don't know if you're rich or

603
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: poorer men or women. So when you craft the laws,

604
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: you want them to be equitable and fair to as

605
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: many people as possible, since you don't know which one

606
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: of those people you're going to be. It's like if

607
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: you have a pizza and you're tasked with slicing it,

608
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: but you don't know which slice you'll be given. You'll

609
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: try to make the slices as even as possible so

610
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: you'll be given a fair portion no matter which random

611
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: piece you'll get. On the genetic level, you're doing this

612
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: all the time when you're creating sperm or egg cells,

613
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: because you have paternal and maternal genes that they both

614
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: want to get in that sperm or that egg, and

615
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: in order to do that without competing with each other,

616
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: there's a randomized process called fair myosis, where essentially you're

617
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: slicing up that pizza at random, and the maternal and

618
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: paternal genes have an equal chance of getting into one

619
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: of those baby slices, which means that as long as

620
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: they're working together to make you really fit and make

621
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: your egg and sperm really fit, unless your offspring really healthy,

622
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: then they have a good chance at winning that bottery

623
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: and getting passed down well that we will be right back.

624
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear a message from some of our awesome,

625
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: awesome sponsors. One of the earliest lessons we learned as children,

626
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: other than don't touch fire, don't hit your sister, and

627
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: don't feed forks to Mr Toaster, is that stealing is wrong.

628
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: Stealing so undermines a society of rules and laws. Historically,

629
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: there have been some pretty gruesome penalties for theft. Cutting

630
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: off ears, hands, and noses were common in ancient Egypt

631
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: and medieval Europe. In England during the seventeen hundreds, pirates

632
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: were killed and their bodies were hung up on gibbets,

633
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: which are tall wooden beans that held cages which were

634
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: used to display the decaying corpses of criminals. Even worse,

635
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: sometimes live pirates would be displayed in the cages, left

636
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: to die of exposure thirst. In seventy three there was

637
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: the simultaneous hangings of twenty six young pirates whose bodies

638
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: were buried between the high and the low tidal water marks,

639
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: which was thought to ensure their souls would never be

640
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: at pressed. So what is it in the life of

641
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: a vagabond that's so appealing? A longitudin will study found

642
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: that sixteen percent of people pulled recorded having stolen something

643
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: worth more than fifty dollars in the last year. Most

644
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: thieves aren't career criminals. Their flirtation with the pirates life

645
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: typically only last for about a year. Alex and I

646
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: will discuss the motives behind human kleptomaniacs and why the

647
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: life of a pirate calls to seabirds and land birds alike.

648
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: Uh So, there is an English comedian who sadly he

649
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: just passed away. Um his name was Kin DoD and

650
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: uh he I don't know his stuff now, but yeah,

651
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't. I actually didn't hear about him

652
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: until I was doing research for this. And he has

653
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: this excellent quote. Uh he says, Um, I have kleptomania,

654
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: but when it gets bad, it takes something for it. Yeah,

655
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: got him. Ums, such a classic joke. I know, it's great.

656
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: It's like a million dad's all cried out at once. Um.

657
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: So clepto mania. As you may know, it's an impulse

658
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: control disorder. And it's different from stealing because they're not

659
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: actually taking things they want. They're just like stealing things

660
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: almost for the thrill of stealing it. And it's right,

661
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: like the broccoli was there, Yeah, Like I don't want broccoli.

662
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: I just want to do broccoli crime. So it's something

663
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: where it's I feel a lot of sympathy with people

664
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: who have cleptomania because it's it's kind more of a

665
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: control thing, like like maybe they feel like something has

666
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: happened in their life where they've lost control, like a

667
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: family member dies, and like that can be a trigger

668
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: for kleptomania because there it's actually it's kind of like

669
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: it's like having control over a certain thing, like I

670
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: can take that item, like I can be sort of

671
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: completely autonomous and get that thing that. Yeah, and it's

672
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: also like the thrill of it, and it's completely irrespective

673
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: of class, economic class. It's like rich people will be

674
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, the most famous of which when not on

675
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: a writer um back in Beetle Juice Times or a

676
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: little after Beetle Juice Times. Yeah, there was a whole

677
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: I had forgotten about that. There was a whole in

678
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: between where she was mostly being joked about on LATENTV

679
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,479
Speaker 1: for which you know, and I when you think about

680
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: it in retrospect, it's kind of a little crummy, like um,

681
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, well yeah, because in particular it's if

682
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: it's being done by people who have plenty of money,

683
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: or at least have earned money at something like, Yeah,

684
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: it must be some kind of compulsion. And again, like

685
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: I said, I don't like anything very much served me,

686
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: Well I'm very lucky. Yeah. Um. But what's interesting is

687
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: so like there's in evolutionary biology. We don't call it kleptomania.

688
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: We call it a I say we as if I am.

689
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: I am evolutionary biology and I direct horror movies. But

690
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: they call it um clepto clepto parasites, uh, which sounds

691
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: a lot grosser. Yeah, that's terrifying. It sounds like like

692
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: an alien parasite that like goes right in your eyeball

693
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. Well I'm imagining like a shark with

694
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: a remora on it, and the remora has like a

695
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: bunch of bags of luten, you know, like I stole

696
00:44:53,800 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: your for a one K plan. It's a capital it

697
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: um corporator pirate capitalism um. So it's it's parasitic behavior

698
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: where one one party is benefiting at the expense of

699
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: another party. And uh, and it's so cute. It's the

700
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: cutest parasite in the animal world. So especially when it's

701
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: done by birds. So another bird crime. Here we go

702
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: this is this is a bird crime heavy episode because

703
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: there are so many bird crimes. Yeah, they're just well

704
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: you keep hearing about like, oh, crows. It turns out

705
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: are brilliant, like they should be writing books or something

706
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: because they have such brilliant brains and it's like they're

707
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: using it for evil though you can't trust them anyway.

708
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: Go on with these birds. Yeah, well, well there's a

709
00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: bower birds, which, uh, they're really pretty birds that developed

710
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: these um elaborate bowers, like kind of a grassy area

711
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: that they've constructed, and then they put little decorations in it,

712
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: like here's some blue flowers and here's some colorful rocks,

713
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: and and they they're like very they're very particular. They

714
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 1: pick out certain colors and really bright colors like reds

715
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: and blues and violets, and like put big chunks of

716
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: colors in and the hope is that that will attract

717
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: a female to come to their little little grass grass

718
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: cave that they made on the ground because they put

719
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: a bunch of pretty flowers. And it's kind of great

720
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 1: because when they live near civilization, they will steal things

721
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: like bottle caps and little little pieces of like colored glass,

722
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: and uh, so they just like have this little junk heep,

723
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: but it's all color coordinated, so it's really cool looking.

724
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would. I think I would come across

725
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: and imagine it was like a weird kid did it right,

726
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: right right? You know that's amazing that um. But then

727
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: they also they also do thief crimes because they're like,

728
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, instead of just finding their own bottle caps

729
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: and colored piece of dirt, like, they gotta take someone else's.

730
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: There's this great uh segment of I think it's It's

731
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: Either Life or Planet Earth where David Attenborough is narrating

732
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: and this uh, this uh little barrow bird is like

733
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: trying to present these colorful objects to this other bird

734
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,959
Speaker 1: that he thinks is a female bird. He's like, would

735
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: you like this? What about this toy? Heart? What about this?

736
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: And like the bird is like, yeah, it's pretty good,

737
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: and he like just takes it. And it's a juvenile male,

738
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: not a female, because the juveniles have coloration similar to females,

739
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: they haven't developed their their pretty little crests yet. So

740
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: like the bird was like trying to it's just like

741
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: some teenager like oh yeah, sure, bro, and you like

742
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: just steals it from even the teen birds are untrustworthy.

743
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: No teens. And then um, chin strap penguins, which their

744
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: names are already great because it makes me think they're

745
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: wearing little hats of little chitten straps right on. Keep

746
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: them on because like their heads are small and it's

747
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: hard for the hat to stay on, so they gotta

748
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: gotta secure it down. You think Pittsburgh penguins they do

749
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: something very similar where they will steal rocks from each other. Um,

750
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: and it's really sad because one penguin will be like

751
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: being honest. So they build these big rock nests too,

752
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: and then the females are like, hey, is your rock

753
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: nest the best one? If so, I will mate with you.

754
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: For more information see the documentary um The Pebble and

755
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: the Penguin and the Penguin Right, directed by Donald Bluth.

756
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: I believe it's a it's a cartoon. Remember what you

757
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: asked if I was gullible before I watched a lot

758
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: of non Disney movies like Troll and Central Park and

759
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: The Pebble and the Penguin and oh, I don't know anything.

760
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: I think I saw like no down Kid. Yeah, but

761
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's a movie. It slightly misunderstands the real

762
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: penguin behavior the rock economy, because they have they're like

763
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: finding pretty rocks or nice stones for the females, like

764
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: just one of them, which is like, I guess you

765
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: know how much of the animal king to do you

766
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: think has some kind of capitalism because apparently the sea does,

767
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: and penguins do, and these weird bower birds do, and like,

768
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe capitalism is like throughout animal species

769
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: and we just think we're the only ones. I think

770
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: there's a strong possibility except for like you have bees

771
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: which are which are communists down COMI bees they should

772
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 1: go extinct. Wait don't no, no, I take it back.

773
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: There's no more earth. Um. So, so the while the

774
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: kind of hard working penguins are going like I'm going

775
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: out to collect my rocks, like the evil penguins going

776
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: on just putting in a solid in the rock mines,

777
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to steal like the Seven Dwarves and Disney

778
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,479
Speaker 1: you know, just you mind it, you bring it back. Yeah.

779
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of really interesting science felt like, well,

780
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: how how can you have like a cheater and not

781
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: have society collapse? Um? Because you would think like like

782
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: as soon as penguins would catch on like oh there's

783
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,399
Speaker 1: someone stealing. Then they would just be like, well I'm

784
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: gonna steal too, um right, But there there are certain

785
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: forces that seem to like you know, there's definitely like

786
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: with the cleaner rounds. That's really interesting because in that

787
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: case you have direct punishment for stealing. And certainly when

788
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: penguins catch another penguin stealing, like honk at him and

789
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: like the wise guy, that's penguin kelpielpa is just hunky.

790
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: It's just making noises like the batman villa in the

791
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: penguin like one win out of five wint um so

792
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: and then another bird crime, just a real brief one quick,

793
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: almost too many to count. Don't trust Seagulls will steal

794
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: fish right out of pelicans beaks in broad daylight. Oh man,

795
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: for real? Well are you really surprised, Like do you

796
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: feel like open? Well, man, I don't think they can

797
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: do much prying, but like I think they just slip

798
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: in there while the doors ajar. It looks like a

799
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: loose set up right right, He's kind of like they

800
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: just like get right in there. Well, did you did

801
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: you see this story? Like just hit Facebook and on

802
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: the wider media. This Canadian guy who he stayed at

803
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 1: a hotel in like British Columbia about twenty years ago,

804
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: and it's based on this crazy, insane, elaborate story of

805
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: him trying to bring pounds and pounds of pepperoni to

806
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: his navy friends already nuts, and then he was in

807
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: a hotel room where like there wasn't a place to

808
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: keep it cool, and so he left it in an

809
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 1: open window and basically he came back to his room

810
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: and it was a sea of seagulls eating the pepperoni

811
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 1: and like violently pooping the pepper And then he got

812
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: a lifetime band from the hotel, but then appealed it

813
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: recently and they were like, this is such a funny story.

814
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: You can come back. The seagulls have gone the band.

815
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: You know, you would think yeah, but he it was

816
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: like such a freakas the room was demolished, like there

817
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: was no it was just covered in because also apparently

818
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: it was like a spicy pepperoni that seagulls can't digest

819
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: very well, so they weren't harmed, but they were just

820
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 1: like really cool pooping caustic poops. Yes, yeah, yeah. And

821
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: then he like tried to throw a shoe at one

822
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: and both the shoe and gull went out of the

823
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: window down into a crowd that was meeting for like

824
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: high tea or hit them. And then yeah, it was

825
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: just like dignitaries from several countries where we have tenuous

826
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: diplomatic relations with. Yeah, right right, like that's how a

827
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: war happened yet, But yeah, it's like seagulls apparently just

828
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: go for it. Yeah, like shoot or shoot, you know,

829
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: they just they want it. Yeah. Yeah, they will like

830
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: grab the food out of your hands if they think

831
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: they can get away with it. Yeah, which is not

832
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: really that's not usually the style, Like like usually animals

833
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: are in people are a little more like subtle about it,

834
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: Like you kind of You're like, I realize you can't

835
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: see me, So I'm gonna sneakily take your pizza, not

836
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: just like we're coming in. We're gonna eat this pizza,

837
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: poop all the floor and charge you like seven dar

838
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: Worth movies eat everything in a mini fridge and the

839
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: little little balls of water are like twenty dollars each.

840
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: But like do you remember, Like I don't know. Actually

841
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: I wonder if like you were the perfect child, But

842
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: like when you were a kid, did you ever try

843
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: to get away with stuff? And like, do you remember

844
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: that realization where it's like, if I'm not being watched,

845
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: I can do a thing. I can do bad things

846
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 1: and not get in trouble. I Yeah, I don't remember

847
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: like a mental transition, but that certainly becomes a thing

848
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: pretty pretty early. Yeah, of like there are times when

849
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm being watched, there's times when I'm not. Also there's

850
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: heaven and hell and my Catholic upbringing, but we're going

851
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: to figure it out. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like children

852
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: do actually kind of go through this learning of It's

853
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: it's like this theory of mind where they understand other

854
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: people have a different perspective of the world than they do.

855
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 1: They have their own distinct mind, their own distinct sort

856
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: of perception. And so there's this really mean child study

857
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: where it's like they have, um, they present these children

858
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: with stickers, and they have three really like lame stickers

859
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: and one like awesome race car sticker, like the other

860
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: ones are like bland flowers, are creepy porcelain dolls dolls,

861
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: and like ones like like Lightning the Queen, and like

862
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: the kids are like, oh, man, I want that one.

863
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: But the rules of the game are when the kid

864
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: points out, and the rules aren't explained, I don't think

865
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: very much. The kids kind of have to figure it

866
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: out where whenever they pick a sticker, mean monkey, this

867
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: little toy will steal that sticker from them because mean

868
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: monkey gets to pick first, and then they get to pick,

869
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: and mean monkey always picks the sticker that they want,

870
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: the race car one that that they wanted, and so

871
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: they're really sad. And that's around age, you know, like

872
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 1: like a little bit older than toddler, and then like

873
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: I was hoping if only teenagers were so easy to

874
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: fool stickers. But then when they get a little older,

875
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: just like about a year older, like once they reach

876
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: about four years old, they're like they figure out how

877
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: to like kind of be deceitful, and they they like

878
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: when they're like, okay, now, cheese a sticker, they pick

879
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: one that they don't want, one of the non race

880
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: car ones, and the expressions on their little faces are

881
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: so funny because they're like grinning from ear to ear,

882
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: like knowing what they're getting away from away with, but

883
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: like they realized that okay, he's can see me doing

884
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: this thing, and so I'm going to trick him. Uh.

885
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: I Also I want a child veloment study on when

886
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: poker face because because like, yeah, they're probably they probably

887
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: learned it, but they I imagine like it's when a

888
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: parents says like it's like did you do this and

889
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: they're like no. Um. But like I remember when I

890
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: was I was in uh the first grade, I was

891
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: like startled at my own intelligence because I was like

892
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: I found the secret system, Like if I want to

893
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: play with toys and us, I just do it out

894
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: of the desk and the teacher can't see. I was like,

895
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 1: this is incredible. It's like it's like discovering the alchemist

896
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: Stone of misbehavior. It's like, oh my god, I can

897
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: turn boring time into gold. Um. And then when I

898
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: got caught, I was like stunned because it was like, well,

899
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: she can't she can't see my hands, Like what how

900
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: is that even possible? She has X ray vision? My

901
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: teacher is a mutant. Yeah, but she actually saw like

902
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: your shoulders moving or like you going right doing a

903
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: little voices like I'm Mrs Planchet, I'm really really stupid.

904
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: Well it's super cute, is that dogs and Chimps also

905
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: have this understanding and it's really cute, like so they

906
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: know that when they're being watched by an authority figure

907
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: and they know that there are consequences to something like

908
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: stealing food, uh, and and they wait until they're not

909
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: being watched. So in chimps, they test it with like

910
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: a dominant chimp versus a subordinate, and the subordinate like

911
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: it's shown like where some food is hidden and it's

912
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: shown that the dominant like can't see it, and they

913
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: go in the like run up really quickly, like grab

914
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: it and then run. Really, so somebody's just studying like

915
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: chimp schemes. Yeah, chimp schemes. The chimp going um, like

916
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: chimps ten of them in a room like this is

917
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: how we get to the It's like five feet away

918
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: and they're like here's the plan. Um. But like, animal

919
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: behavior experts are starting to study dogs more because the

920
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: realizations dogs have this really good social intelligence and it's

921
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: really funny because they uh in dog's case, like the

922
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: authority figures the human and they'll put like a piece

923
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: of food on the floor and the dogs like looking

924
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: at it like oh my god, and then the humans

925
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 1: like like no, you can't have that, and the dog

926
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: looks devastated and it's like no, and then the researcher

927
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: either sits like in a chair and faces the dog

928
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: or faces away from the dog, or like these are

929
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: the different experiment conditions, Like there's one where they kind

930
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: of look a little distracted in one where they just

931
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 1: completely leave the room. When they leave the room, almost

932
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: the time, the dogs just immediately take the take the

933
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: food and eat it um when they're still in the room,

934
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: but like, uh, facing or facing away from the dog,

935
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,479
Speaker 1: they'll still try to steal it once in a while

936
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 1: because they're like, you can't see me, you can't see

937
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: the food. You know mine as well, And when the

938
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: person is facing the dog much less often do they

939
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: try to steal it, but sometimes they do, and it's

940
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: really funny when they do, because like one of them

941
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 1: walked like there's the food in the researcher in the chair,

942
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: and then the dog walked around in a big circle

943
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: behind the researcher, went under the chair and then like

944
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: took the food as if like somehow he's like, you

945
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: weren't expecting me to come from this direction. I hope

946
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: he did. Like the tap the opposite shoulder. To people,

947
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: he's the pen and teller of dogs. What did the

948
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: dog do when the scientist leaves the room and then

949
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: watches them from through the eye holes of like an

950
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: old timey painting to the dogs suspect it's haunted dogs

951
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: kind of like walk through a background that keeps looping

952
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: and like like what it's like because like my dog,

953
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: like I can see it a little bit in my dog,

954
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: Like she knows she's not supposed to go in the

955
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: bathroom because she always reads the trash and like if

956
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: if she can tell him like watching her, she won't

957
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: go in because she knows, I'll just close the door.

958
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: But other crimes she'll just do right in front of me,

959
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: Like she she sees me looking at her, and she

960
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: very slowly like reaches over and then grabs my glasses

961
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: and then runs away. And it's like yeah, like I

962
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: know dogs can't laugh, but it seems like she's laughing

963
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: because she's like um and she's she's using it as

964
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: like a hostage because and she wants me to uh

965
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: give her treats in exchange. Because I thought I may

966
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: be a bad dog trainer, because I thought like okay,

967
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: like you teach your dog to drop it, and then

968
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: you reward them. I've just rewarded her for finding items

969
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: that I don't want her to have and then dropping it.

970
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: Like actually, just last night I dropped like I was

971
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: doing some chopping in the kitchen and I dropped a

972
01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: knife and all the time, all the time with the

973
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: just chopped broccoli up into little pieces and threw it

974
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: right in the trash um. And I dropped the knife

975
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 1: on the floor and like she like started, she like

976
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: tries to grab it and has it. Was just like

977
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: so funny, Like I mean, she didn't, she didn't get it.

978
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: We we got it away from her, but just like

979
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: she she was so close to like becoming armed and

980
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: being like that primate in two thousand one Space Odyssey

981
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: where he's like, oh this bone can kill right from now?

982
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: What I am knife dog? I only respond to knife duck. Um. Well,

983
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: I think on knife dog, I think we are going

984
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:52,919
Speaker 1: to Even though it turns out all dogs aren't going

985
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: to Heaven, do they at least feel guilty about their shenanigans.

986
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: Dog owners are probably familiar with that sheepish look on

987
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: your pet's expression after a naughty incident. The eyes look

988
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: up the head, lowers tail, me even go between the legs.

989
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: So is this a form of doggie conscience? Researchers think

990
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: that regardless of those big puppy eyes, your dog doesn't

991
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: have an ounce of remorse. Dog owners were asked to

992
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: leave the room while their dog was presented a biscuit,

993
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: but told not to take it. The owners returned unaware

994
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: of whether their dog was naughty and took the biscuit

995
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 1: or was obedient. Asked to rank their dogs and how

996
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: guilty their expressions were, the owners were completely hopeless. They

997
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: couldn't tell which dogs were bolonious and which were innocent.

998
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: So this research suggests that the look of guilt and

999
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: a dog's expression may merely be a reaction to her

1000
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: visible anger at them. They may not know why you're mad,

1001
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: but they know they're in the doghouse, and they'll make

1002
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: sure to look pathetic until it all blows over. In fact,

1003
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: dogs may have us figured out more than you would give.

1004
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: According to studies, we express emotion more strongly on the

1005
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: right half of our faces. What's really interesting is that

1006
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: dogs have a preference for gazing towards the right more strongly.

1007
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 1: A motive half of the human space, even though they

1008
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: show no such preference towards any other animal. This means

1009
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: that dogs may have an ability to walk onto the

1010
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 1: most expressive part of our faces to better judge what

1011
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,959
Speaker 1: emotional state we're in. In fact, they may be better

1012
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: at it than humans. Unlike people, dogs will still walk

1013
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: onto the right half the human face even when it's

1014
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: upside down. So if you ever find yourself dangling upside

1015
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: down from an inconveniently placed rope trap, your dog will

1016
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 1: be able to make the astute observation that you are upset.

1017
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: Truly man's best friend. So, Alex, do you have anything

1018
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: else to plug up? Even your new movie Knife Dog?

1019
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean just people see that in theaters.

1020
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: Get take a certain dango, put that like and subscribe

1021
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: like and subscribe to Knife Dog. Um no, yeah, I'm

1022
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: so glad to be on the show. Thank you for having.

1023
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: My Twitter account is at Alex trimitty. And then on Cracked,

1024
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: it's environment not on Crack. Drugs are a problem. Drugs

1025
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: don't do them. Don't do them. Drugs don't do them. Um,

1026
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: so you can find dog is tough on drugs. Dog,

1027
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: I'll cut you if you do drugs like a criminal

1028
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: McGrath the crime Doug. Yeah, like I will. I will

1029
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: hurt you if you try to do jobs. So you

1030
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at pro bird writes my

1031
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: Twitter for birds, but not only for birds, for people

1032
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: who are it's the best, like birds too, in politics

1033
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: and birds, birds and politics. If people are still sleeping

1034
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 1: on that account, get on it, uh. And also at

1035
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: Katie Golden. Same for that account where there's some pictures

1036
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: of a muscular Garfield on it. I don't want you

1037
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: to be alarmed, just giving your heads up. They'll like it.

1038
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you join

1039
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: us next Wednesday on Creature Feature m