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Speaker 1: Warning warning.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for Batman, The Cape Crusader and

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Speaker 2: The Crow and oh Spooky Denizens of x ray Vision.

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Speaker 2: My name is Rosie Knight, and welcome back to x

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Speaker 2: ray Vision, the podcast where we dive deep into your

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Speaker 2: favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming to you

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Speaker 2: as always from iHeart Podcast, where we'll be bringing you

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Speaker 2: two new episodes a week every Tuesday and Thursday, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes you even get extra episodes. Aren't you lucky? But

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Speaker 2: let's not waste any time. Jason is currently on top

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Speaker 2: of the Gotham Police Department lighting up the back signal,

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Speaker 2: and that means it's time to jump into the second

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Speaker 2: half of Batman Cape Crusader. First, we're covering episode five,

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Speaker 2: then hopping into the Batmobile to chat with Mark bernardin

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Speaker 2: writer for episode six, Night Ride, and what an episode

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Speaker 2: that was. And then we dive into the Batcave to

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Speaker 2: discuss episodes seven to ten. Finally we watched The Crow

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Speaker 2: and we have thoughts. They are not the same thoughts,

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Speaker 2: they are divisive thoughts. But first, in the airlock, we're

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Speaker 2: recapping episodes five to ten of The Cape Crusader with

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Speaker 2: the help of Mark bernardin.

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Speaker 3: And now we're stepping out of the airlock to talk

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Speaker 3: about episodes five through ten of Batman Caped Crusader, The excellent,

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Speaker 3: the truly excellent Batman shockingly good. Episode five. Let's start

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Speaker 3: here with the of the debut of Harley Quinn in

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Speaker 3: the Caped Crusader universe. I loved this episode. Mea loved

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Speaker 3: the thing changed. I love the tweaks they made to

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Speaker 3: her origin story and just awesome. What did you make

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Speaker 3: of it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: The stress of her regard. Written by Haley Gross, directed

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Speaker 2: by Matt Peters, This is maybe my favorite episode. Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I do think that you know, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna have Mark bernardin here talking about night Ride, which

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Speaker 2: I do think is up there with fantastic episodes. But

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Speaker 2: you know what, I love this representation of Harley. I

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Speaker 2: love how cute see she is when she's doctor quins out.

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Speaker 2: I love that she is in this kind of romantic

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Speaker 2: entanglement trying to date Rename and Montoya, which is really funny,

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Speaker 2: the idea of like the question and Harlequin dating. I

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Speaker 2: also like the version of Harlequin here, who has you

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Speaker 2: know gone rogue had her breaking point moment without the Joker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an agency there, there's Yeah, it's she wasn't

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Speaker 3: corrupted in this mm hm. You know, honestly a really

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Speaker 3: terrible and toxic way. She is the person in the

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Speaker 3: driver's seat behind her own personal mania and turned to

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Speaker 3: the dark side. And I found it very, very compelling.

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Speaker 3: And I found the connection between the alter ego and

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Speaker 3: the ego Doctor Quinzel and Harley Quinn to be that

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Speaker 3: much more engrossing.

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Speaker 2: Because and also she gets to have an alter ego,

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Speaker 2: Whereas when harle and Quinzel becomes Harley Quinn in you know,

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Speaker 2: whether it's Batman animated series or whether it's you know,

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Speaker 2: the comic books, that becomes all of her. Whereas here

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Speaker 2: we do get that duality and that cheery, funny, curvey, hilarious,

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Speaker 2: cheeky Harley is there in Harleen, but she's far more

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Speaker 2: dark and kind of deranged as Harley Quinn. And what

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Speaker 2: I really like, I think any great Batman villain is

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Speaker 2: like a mirror for Batman.

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Speaker 1: I've written a.

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Speaker 2: Lot about how in Batman Returns, Like one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite things is like, you know, the Penguin is essentially

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Speaker 2: like what if Batman's family didn't love him. Like he's rich,

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Speaker 2: he's a son of Gotham, but he doesn't have any

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Speaker 2: love for his parents. His parents abandoned him. He grew

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Speaker 2: up without the trappings of what Batman has. And I

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Speaker 2: really like here that Harley Quinn's journey is essentially like

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Speaker 2: she does the same thing as Batman. She's trying to

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Speaker 2: fix Gotham.

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Speaker 5: But she's doing it in this it's a lot worse way,

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Speaker 5: like in this completely deranged, like cruel way, and it's

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Speaker 5: almost like Gotham broke her the way Gotham broke Batman

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Speaker 5: and made him who he is.

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Speaker 2: We get to see that here with Harlene and this

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Speaker 2: kind of awful kind of torture that she's putting these

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Speaker 2: villains through. And as again, just as you know, this

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Speaker 2: is the kind of stuff we love.

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Speaker 1: I also love that they.

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Speaker 2: Use this episode as a way to showcase all these

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Speaker 2: really outrageous old Batman villains that you would see in

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Speaker 2: like sixty six Batman, like you know, King Tut and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that that you wouldn't usually get to see.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I just I think this is like such

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Speaker 2: a great example of what this show does well.

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Speaker 3: Next up, Night Ride written by Mark Bernardon, directed by

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Speaker 3: Christopher Berkeley, and let's just go to our interview with

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Speaker 3: the writer of this episode, Mark Bernardon.

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Speaker 2: Mark Bernardin is a screenwriter whose work has appeared in Vox, Macina,

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Speaker 2: Castle Rock, and Masters of the Universe, among them.

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Speaker 1: Any More.

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Speaker 2: He's here today to talk about Batman, the Cape Crusader,

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Speaker 2: and if we're very nice, he might even tease a

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Speaker 2: little bit about Eyes of Wakanda, the new Disney animated series.

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Speaker 1: Is coming soon. But we'll see. We'll start with Batman.

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Speaker 1: We'll start with Batman.

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Speaker 6: Hell, I'm good, I will tell you everything about Eyes

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Speaker 6: of Wakanda.

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Speaker 4: I will tell you he.

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Speaker 6: Like, what's what's Disney gonna do?

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Speaker 3: Like, what's Marvel good? That they're really cash, They're very chill.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's fine. It's not coming out for another year

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Speaker 6: or so.

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Speaker 1: Just tell everybody, get people excited.

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Speaker 6: What's the worst that could happen?

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Speaker 3: Mark, what's your origin story with Batman?

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Speaker 6: My origin story with Batman begins, as I imagine many

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Speaker 6: old men's stories begin with the sixty six Batman with

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Speaker 6: Adam West, the first time I've ever seen the character.

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Speaker 6: You know, and and depending on your perspective, that is

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Speaker 6: either the best way to meet Batman or the worst

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Speaker 6: way to be Batman. I choose to believe it's the

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Speaker 6: best way because it's a kids show for kids, and

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Speaker 6: I was a kid, and it was bright and colorful

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Speaker 6: and it moved and you know, And I've read those

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Speaker 6: sort of reappreciations of Adam West as of late, like

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Speaker 6: I think when he just when he passed, even before then,

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Speaker 6: the level of commitment that he had to that bit

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Speaker 6: is astonishing. Like he never breaks. He is always just

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Speaker 6: right down the middle. He is always the fixed point

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Speaker 6: in space and time around which the mania of Batman

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Speaker 6: can revolve. And like that is not easy to do,

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Speaker 6: to be a straight man with, you know, and do

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Speaker 6: the batusi straight man is so hard to pull off,

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Speaker 6: but he sticks the landing every time. And so like

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Speaker 6: it was that when I was a kid, and then

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Speaker 6: later it slowly came back around to the Dark Knight

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Speaker 6: returns to Frank Miller's book, you know, and Frank it

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Speaker 6: was Frank Miller really like that in Batman Year one, yeah,

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Speaker 6: or my two sort of the twin poles of Batman

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Speaker 6: for me, And then just became a fan and then

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Speaker 6: just started buying the books every month, and then you know,

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Speaker 6: like never went that far back but kept going forward.

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Speaker 6: And then Batman the animated series happened, which I think

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Speaker 6: blew everybody's minds wide open, like, wait, this is what

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Speaker 6: I just saw this Burton movie and I thought that

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Speaker 6: was cool, But what is this now? And I think

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Speaker 6: that that was a huge paradigm shift in lots of

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Speaker 6: people's appreciation for this character in a real way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So then you know, jumping forward to Cape Crusader, was

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Speaker 2: it Ed Brubaker who brought you onto the project?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Like I'd known Ed for a while through comic

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Speaker 6: book circles and comic book writing circles, and he'd been

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Speaker 6: on the podcast that I do with Kevin Smith Fatman

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Speaker 6: Beyond once or twice, and every now and again we

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Speaker 6: would text each other and just commiserate about TV writing

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Speaker 6: and sort of and Swan he just and he just

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Speaker 6: like popped up on the text. He was like, hey, man,

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Speaker 6: do you want to write an episode of Batman? Does

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Speaker 6: it say less? Say less?

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Speaker 1: Like that's it.

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Speaker 6: I'm in all right, The answer is yes, regardless of

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Speaker 6: what the rest of the information is, I will happily

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Speaker 6: write an episode of Batman. He was like, well, you know,

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Speaker 6: we had a writer's room, and the writer's rooms kind

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Speaker 6: of disbanded, but we have these episodes and like Wreckers

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Speaker 6: writing one, and like I'm writing one of course, and

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Speaker 6: Bruce's and we'd love for you to come aboard and

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Speaker 6: take one on. And I said yes, because again, you know,

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Speaker 6: if somebody asked you if you're a god ray, you

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Speaker 6: say yes. My default answer to somebody offering me a thing.

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Speaker 6: And it was a phenomenal experience in that I've never

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Speaker 6: written Batman before. You know, I've been working in comics

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Speaker 6: for almost fifteen years twenty years at that point, and

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Speaker 6: never gotten a chance to swing at Batman. But to

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Speaker 6: get to write Bruce Tim's Batman, you know, to get

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Speaker 6: to write Brue Baker's Batman, to get to dig under

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Speaker 6: the hood of that character and that world and find

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Speaker 6: the lines between. And it was always weird, even in Batman.

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Speaker 6: The animals here is right, he's got a car and

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Speaker 6: a cell phone, but there's dirigibles and you know, like

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Speaker 6: where are we? When are we? This weird future noir thing,

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Speaker 6: and like this was even more so. It's like this

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Speaker 6: is definitely in like thirties and forties, you know, but

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Speaker 6: again he's got a batmobile and again like he doesn't

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Speaker 6: have a computer. He has to go to the library

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Speaker 6: to do research, but he's still like all of the

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Speaker 6: weirdness of that world took just a little bit of

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Speaker 6: time to calibrate too. But I mean, nobody knows Batman

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Speaker 6: like Bruce Tim knows Batman, and so to get notes

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Speaker 6: from Bruce Tim on Batman was the height of surreality. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: it really was. It was just it was, it was,

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Speaker 6: you know, kid nerd stuff.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about your episode, the Wonderful night Ride, episode

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Speaker 3: six in the first season. Wonderful, wonderfully spooky episode with

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Speaker 3: a great antagonist who I love that his bit is

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Speaker 3: just he hates poor people and that endures. How'd you

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Speaker 3: end up with this episode?

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Speaker 6: You know, I think it was I'm not going to

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Speaker 6: say it was like random luck of the draw, but

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Speaker 6: it was. I think they were specifically looking for somebody

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Speaker 6: of color to handle this episode because I think getting

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Speaker 6: the Lucius Fox stuff right, getting the pop and midnight

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Speaker 6: stuff right, getting the kind of class warfare stuff right.

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Speaker 6: They very much, you know, did not want it to

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Speaker 6: be an episode about race, but it they were very

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Speaker 6: much like, no, it's an episode about class, which in

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Speaker 6: a big city also functions like an episode about race,

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Speaker 6: because that just tends to be the way that breaks down.

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Speaker 6: And so it was you know, figuring out, all right,

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Speaker 6: how supernatural is he? Like is he a llegit ghost?

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Speaker 6: Is he a guy pretending to be a ghost, Like

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Speaker 6: how are we hiding the ball on the truth of it?

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Speaker 6: You know, and just being in Batman's pov like he's

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Speaker 6: investigating this thing. The audience should believe what Batman believes,

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Speaker 6: you know. And then when Batman rounds that corner into

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Speaker 6: like wait a minute, like I punched him and he

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Speaker 6: wasn't there and my hand is cold, and this is

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Speaker 6: not just a guy in a costume. This is not

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Speaker 6: special effects. This is real, you know, like just figuring

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Speaker 6: out how to round that story out in the season

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Speaker 6: in that has no other.

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Speaker 3: Supervis Yeah, yeah, very notable, Like how.

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Speaker 6: To make that all play? And I think it was

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Speaker 6: it was rooting it in Gotham story, in Gotham history.

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Speaker 6: It was rooting it in sort of you know, Lucius's

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Speaker 6: perspective on it, you know, and also having conversations about

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Speaker 6: what do you do with all of your money? Bruce?

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Speaker 6: Do you want to be involved in this charity thing.

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Speaker 6: Do you want to like, what is what is the

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Speaker 6: responsibility of the hyper rich in a city like this?

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Speaker 6: And to whom are you responsible? And that getting to

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Speaker 6: be the kind of spine of that story. You know,

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to say it wrote quickly, because they

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Speaker 6: never write quickly, but at least I kind of I

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Speaker 6: knew kind of what it was. Yeah, and it got

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Speaker 6: to mostly be a standalone, you know, other than some

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Speaker 6: of the like Harvey Dent, you know, running for office

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Speaker 6: stuff and the ruper Thorn stuff like the little connective

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Speaker 6: tissue to the rest of the season. But otherwise it's

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Speaker 6: just it's an episode of The X Files where you know,

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Speaker 6: Bruce Wayne is trying to figure out what goes bump

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Speaker 6: in the night.

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Speaker 2: And you, I mean, you mentioned that you've written comics,

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Speaker 2: you've worked in animation before, but on a project like

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Speaker 2: this where you are working with masters like Bruce Tim

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Speaker 2: and what was it like to write the episode and

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Speaker 2: then start to see the art come back, get to

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Speaker 2: see the finished animation from this unbelievable team, Like what

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Speaker 2: was that experience?

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Speaker 6: Like, I mean, the when they started showing me somebody

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Speaker 6: even the character design work, like writing is always in

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Speaker 6: a bit of a vacuum, yeah, where you're just like,

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Speaker 6: I'm putting these words on a page and hopefully they

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Speaker 6: will become a thing that functions as drama. And so

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Speaker 6: it's always abstract until it isn't, you know. And it's

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Speaker 6: very much like the process with comics, where it's like

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Speaker 6: I wrote this thing, and I think, and then somebody

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Speaker 6: starts drawing it, and like the minute you begin to

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Speaker 6: get you know, those finished pages in even pencils, even

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Speaker 6: inks like it suddenly it's real in a way that

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Speaker 6: it wasn't, you know, getting character design stuff, you know,

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Speaker 6: to look at animatics, getting to like all of it

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Speaker 6: just begins to claw its way into reality and leaves

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Speaker 6: and bounds because animation takes forever to do so it

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Speaker 6: can be months between like getting in any information to like,

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Speaker 6: oh there it is. Oh that's that's cool. Oh they

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Speaker 6: kept that, Like that's always fun. But the craziest part

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Speaker 6: of it was that And I don't know if this

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Speaker 6: is telling tales out of school or not, but when

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Speaker 6: Bruce Tim gives notes, he's he has your script, he's

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Speaker 6: printed it out, he's writing his notes in a red

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Speaker 6: magic marker. And then he's drawing things in the margins.

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Speaker 6: It's like this scene should look like this, and he'll

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Speaker 6: draw like the train sequence, you know, or at least

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Speaker 6: you're like, here's what the inside of the train should

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Speaker 6: look like, Here's what the sort of courtroom scene should

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Speaker 6: look like, here's what this thing should be and just

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Speaker 6: to have like Bruce tim drawings in the margins was

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Speaker 6: the like that was the giddiest part. Was like he

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Speaker 6: actually read it and it was it moved him to

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Speaker 6: draw thing. Yeah, that's that's Banana's I still am trying

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Speaker 6: to get in to give me the actual physical hard

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Speaker 6: copy of those notes. I bet he refuses to come on,

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Speaker 6: come on, you know what I want. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 6: sell an eBay, like, I just want to have it just.

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Speaker 1: In my house. We only have the highest quality guests

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Speaker 1: on this show.

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Speaker 2: So help us support having those guests that we definitely

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Speaker 2: don't pay for.

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Speaker 1: Actually, by listening to these messages, we're back.

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Speaker 3: The thing I love about this episode is, and you

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Speaker 3: mentioned it being like a standalone is Bruce gets challenged

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Speaker 3: in a way that kind of doesn't really happen in

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Speaker 3: the rest of the series. Both on to your point,

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Speaker 3: what he's doing with his money, and then the fact

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Speaker 3: that his very can perception of what reality is is

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Speaker 3: directly challenged in this episode. How did you balance like

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Speaker 3: all that stuff, because you know, of course Bruce and

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Speaker 3: Batman are such grounded characters, and now all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden he's coming up against something that completely upends his

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Speaker 3: idea of what the world is.

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Speaker 6: Like the way they described Bruce and Batman to me

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Speaker 6: was a bit like mister Spock, you know, like his

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Speaker 6: his level of oddness, his level of like relying on logic,

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Speaker 6: Like he wasn't quite on the spectrum, but he was

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Speaker 6: definitely a little to the left of typical, you know,

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Speaker 6: definitely neurodiversion in some way. And so the idea that,

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Speaker 6: like mister Spock, when confronted with the impossible, still begins

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Speaker 6: to absorb it and push through it and just get

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Speaker 6: the job done. And so like, this was never a

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Speaker 6: thing that was going to alter Bruce's or Batman's worldview.

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Speaker 6: This was just a this is a weird blip, This

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Speaker 6: is not the job. Like, I don't have to investigate

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Speaker 6: how are there suddenly ghosts in the world. I just

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Speaker 6: need to know what how to solve this particular issue.

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Speaker 6: So it was never like we're going to shake him

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Speaker 6: to his core with the existence of you know, paranormal.

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Speaker 6: It was more he will take this information on board

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Speaker 6: processes and use it to solve the problem in hand,

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Speaker 6: which made it an easier dramatic problem to solve because

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Speaker 6: if I suddenly have to have a Batman who's like,

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Speaker 6: oh my god, everybody's dead. There's ghosts everywhere, like can

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Speaker 6: I find my parents or my parents?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god?

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Speaker 6: Like that is a huge can of worms that nobody

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Speaker 6: wants to open. So yeah, keep him on rails, keep

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Speaker 6: him on task.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you did a great job with that.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot about this episode.

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Speaker 2: When the Gentleman goes goes through the wall and then

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Speaker 2: Batman's like grasping at the bits left behind.

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Speaker 6: What is this?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: I think I think you really did that.

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Speaker 2: So when you're approaching something like this right where the

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Speaker 2: the KP Crusoder is a totally new kind of vision

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Speaker 2: for Gotham, but you're taking on a character like the

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Speaker 2: Gentleman Ghost who's from like the four E's from a

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Speaker 2: flash comic Flash Aea, Joe Cuba, Robert Canada, Like these

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Speaker 2: are big things. Did you go back and look at

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Speaker 2: those things, or are you just like this is a

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Speaker 2: new space, Like what can I do with this character?

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Speaker 6: It was very much like a new version of an

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Speaker 6: old character, and most of what had been part of

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Speaker 6: that initial creation didn't apply anymore. Yeah, you know, so

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Speaker 6: it was it was very much like, here's a new guy.

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Speaker 6: Here's what he wants, you know, here's the obstacle to

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Speaker 6: get in what he wants, you know, Like the for

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Speaker 6: the longest time, it was what does he need money for?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a ghost.

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Speaker 6: He's a ghost. He can't actually carry it with him, Like,

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Speaker 6: so what does he need this money for? And and

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Speaker 6: so figuring out like what his big issues were, what

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Speaker 6: was his conflict, what was what was the thing driving him?

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Speaker 6: And it was just like Gotham has turned into a sesspool,

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Speaker 6: Like why all of these people who shouldn't be here,

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Speaker 6: you know, we're giving them too much that we were

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Speaker 6: handing out too many things, like I just need to

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Speaker 6: find a way to balance the scales in favor of

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Speaker 6: the aristocracy, and like that became the overriding character want

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Speaker 6: and the only stuff that maintained with his backstory was

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Speaker 6: the stuff that fed into that, you know, So like

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Speaker 6: all right, so he's gonna be, you know, part of

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Speaker 6: the Gotham like five founding families or whatever. But like

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Speaker 6: the one that nobody liked, the one who was like

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Speaker 6: they all got together like the Founder's club, and he

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Speaker 6: was the one who sat in the corner. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 6: like settle down, bro, Like, not about that life anymore.

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Speaker 6: It's the new world. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also, like, if you're getting all this money, guess how

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Speaker 2: you could make people's lives bad. Just give them the money,

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Speaker 2: all the poor people often that would actually help, which

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Speaker 2: I think I think is a great that's a really great

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Speaker 2: kind of mirror to the Batman question that we all

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Speaker 2: always have, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: That we all always have, which is, hey man, you

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Speaker 6: know what Gotham really needs infrastructure, you know, like great schools,

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Speaker 6: you know, maybe after school programs, you know what. It

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Speaker 6: doesn't really need punching crime in the face.

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Speaker 1: That's for you, that's what you need.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Like you do that because you just like it.

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Speaker 6: It's not actually helping Gotham very much, you know, which

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Speaker 6: is what Alfred says in the movies, which is like

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Speaker 6: it's an arms race, Like you know, you show up

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Speaker 6: and suddenly there's a guy in a mask and then

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Speaker 6: it invites conflict. It's a vision speech right from Infinity War.

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Speaker 6: It's like power in fights. Conflict invites challenge, creates chaos.

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Speaker 6: It's like, Man, if you just stay Bruce, Wayne and

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Speaker 6: invested in Gotham, this probably would be a better place.

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Speaker 3: Tell us about breaking this story. How much of the

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Speaker 3: arc of the season was in place when you came

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Speaker 3: to the project.

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Speaker 6: I think they knew. They knew very much what the

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Speaker 6: you know, they knew where we're starting, they knew where

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Speaker 6: it was ending. You know, they knew all of the episodes.

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Speaker 6: They wanted to tell that story. And so when I

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Speaker 6: signed on, like they sent me about a page a

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Speaker 6: page and a half of like here's kind of what

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Speaker 6: this episode is. It didn't have all of the beats

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Speaker 6: worked out, or didn't have all of the logic stuff,

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Speaker 6: Like again we had to figure out what does he

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Speaker 6: want with money? Was not a problem that had been

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Speaker 6: solved in the writer's room. But and then they told

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Speaker 6: me like, yeah, you're gonna have Pop a Midnight Like

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Speaker 6: you know, it's going on his clue path to solving it.

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Speaker 6: We can incorporate this character. I was like, we're doing

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Speaker 6: popa Midnight? Bat man like, Okay, all right, I see you.

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Speaker 6: Let's let's go, you know, And so then it became

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Speaker 6: an extraction process. It became like here's the page in half,

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Speaker 6: Let's blow that up into six pages. Let's blow that

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Speaker 6: up then into fifteen pages, let's blow that up into

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Speaker 6: thirty pages. And with each subsequent pass, you're just adding

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Speaker 6: more detail, You're adding more character, you're adding more conflict,

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Speaker 6: you know, like they knew they wanted a horse on

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Speaker 6: a subway car, you know, cool, like how do we

408
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 6: get there to how do we do it? Like, you know,

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Speaker 6: we knew we wanted some kind of heist in the beginning,

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Speaker 6: but we weren't entirely sure who was stealing. We knew

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Speaker 6: the gentleman Ghost is going to be stealing a thing,

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Speaker 6: we didn't know if he was robbing other criminals, if

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Speaker 6: he was robbing whatever, Like let's make it a charities thing.

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Speaker 6: Like all of that just sort of came out in

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Speaker 6: the writing. But you know, the the idea of the

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Speaker 6: gentleman ghost as a classist was there for the job that,

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Speaker 6: you know, and so just and figuring out ways to

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Speaker 6: amplify that story and figure out ways to make Lucius

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Speaker 6: be both a victim and have agency, you know, for

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Speaker 6: him not to sort of be be diminished in the

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Speaker 6: presence of the gentleman ghost. You know, it's like the

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Speaker 6: men the ghost shows up like up go as dukes

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Speaker 6: in a proper like nineteen forties your dukes, the Marquis

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Speaker 6: of Queensberry rules, Let's.

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Speaker 1: Go for you when it comes.

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Speaker 2: Something that I think was really really cool about this

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Speaker 2: show and definitely something me and Joelle have talked about

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Speaker 2: a lot, is like this does move away from kind

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Speaker 2: of the way that bodies were drawn in Batman. That

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Speaker 2: animated series had this very specific look that we still

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Speaker 2: see on the incredible action figures that they do.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of this inverted triangle look.

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Speaker 2: No matter who you are, you're an inverted triangle, and

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Speaker 2: it's so powerful and striking. But in Kate Crusader we

435
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: get some real body diversity. There are all different kinds

436
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 2: of bodies, there are all different kinds of characters. You're

437
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 2: someone who's fought to make stories more inclusive and stuff.

438
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: What was it like to come to a project that

439
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: was already naturally doing that and thinking about things like

440
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: class and thinking about things like body diversity, and thinking

441
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: about things like what Goffam would really.

442
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 6: Look like I mean, it's it was liberating, you know,

443
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 6: because a lot of the time, you know, that fight

444
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 6: is a fight that not many people are trying to have,

445
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 6: you know, and some of that is just literally like

446
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 6: and I never blame anybody for it, because it's a

447
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 6: thing that I have personally had to divest myself of,

448
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 6: divorce myself from, which is if you grow up, regardless

449
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 6: of who you are, where you're from, the color of

450
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 6: your parents, whatever it is, if you're growing up in America,

451
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 6: you're growing up in a society that tells stories through

452
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 6: a white lens. And for a very long time, the

453
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 6: stories that I wrote were through a white lens because

454
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 6: I grew up in the eighties, you know, I love

455
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 6: action movies and like, who are my heroes going to be?

456
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 6: If not Schwarzenigrancet alone and Bruce Willison and John Claude

457
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 6: van Dam and like there was not a ton of

458
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 6: like you get a call Weathers and like yeah, but otherwise,

459
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 6: you know, or you get a Sorgeny Weaver, but otherwise

460
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 6: the playing field is not particularly welcoming to anybody who

461
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 6: was not that. And so teaching myself how to not

462
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 6: default to that has been a process that I'm only

463
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 6: now coming to, I think the end of so to

464
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 6: come to and then every other show that I've worked

465
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 6: on has been for the most part, you know, kind

466
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 6: of through a white lens, which I don't blame people

467
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 6: for because that's what America is. You know. Cassaroc was

468
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 6: an interesting one in that, like, oh, we're telling a

469
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 6: story about this black person who lives in a completely

470
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 6: white town, So like is he how black is he?

471
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 6: Like when did he connect with his own story, with

472
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 6: his own history, with his own culture. That was part

473
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 6: of that conversation. But to come to Cape Crusader and like, oh, yeah, no,

474
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 6: it is. We we are reimagining what the forties could

475
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 6: be in America. You know, we are. We are wildly diverse.

476
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 6: We are we are incredibly you know, welcoming to everybody.

477
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 6: And animation is better for it because, like, honestly, you

478
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 6: want diversity of shape. You want the eye to be

479
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 6: drawn in various different ways. Like if everybody is rare

480
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 6: thin and whip it strong, like it's kind of boring

481
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 6: on screen after a while. If everybody is just that

482
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 6: inverted triangle walking on a pair of pins, it's like

483
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 6: like we should have some larger people, we should have

484
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 6: some shorter people, some sort of tall people, like it's

485
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 6: it's it's it's the old Warner Brothers cartoons like we

486
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 6: got tiny dog, we got big dog, Like that's that's

487
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 6: the The elasticity of that is part of where you

488
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 6: get the drama. And so to not have to to

489
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 6: not have to like put up my dukes and try

490
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 6: to have conversations with people about, you know, shaking off

491
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 6: some of the rust of how we're creating a story

492
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 6: was wonderful, like, hey, you guys already thinking about that

493
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 6: great like let me, let me, let me help you

494
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 6: think a bit more about, you know, ways that we

495
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 6: can highlight how a place like Gotham is broken and

496
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 6: how it's broken, and how incoming equality is one of

497
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 6: the ways that that's broken, and how the gentleman goes

498
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 6: is or of the avatar for keeping things the way

499
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 6: they were, if not, if not making Gotham great again,

500
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 6: like let's do it. Let's lean into it as far

501
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 6: as we're willing to lean and and they were harberscent

502
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 6: on board.

503
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Papa Midnight was so wonderful to seem

504
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 3: in this episode what a, what a what a great surprise.

505
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: Tell us about Papa Midnight and what it was like

506
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: integrating him into the context of Gotham.

507
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 6: I mean, Papa Midnight is an awesome character and always

508
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 6: has been, even in in you know, the back of

509
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 6: my head, I always hear like Jeffrey Holder's voice, you know,

510
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 6: like the Crab from like Sepassion from the Little Mermaid,

511
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 6: like that that very deep. Hey, what do you need

512
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 6: from me? Like that's always what's in my head, you know.

513
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 6: And I love John and Huntsu's performance in The Constantine,

514
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 6: Like Batman was always going to need a clue path

515
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 6: to follow, it was always going to need information like

516
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 6: that's that's how detectives work. Like I don't know everything.

517
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 6: I've got to find things, and so how can I

518
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 6: find out information? How can I do battle with a

519
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 6: thing that I've never done battle with before? You know,

520
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 6: I mean it was a bit of a jump for

521
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 6: like Alfred to be like, I know a guy, and like,

522
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 6: what is Alfred know wizards who live in this part

523
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 6: of the city we're moving on? And how Alfred knows

524
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 6: Papa Midnight.

525
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: Yes, bud O pal you know, he's.

526
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 6: A drinking buddy, like there's a there's a pub in

527
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 6: the in the Bowery that they hang out at. But

528
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 6: so it was always going to be a pit stop,

529
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 6: like you needed to have that information from somebody, and

530
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 6: they're like, we can do Papa Midnight. I was like,

531
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 6: that's perfect, Like and for Papa Midnight to have his

532
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 6: own agenda, for him to have his own wants, like

533
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: I will help you if you help me, here's what

534
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 6: I need, you know. I think there there at some

535
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 6: point was a sequence or version of a scene where

536
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 6: where you know, and spoilers if you haven't seen this episode,

537
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 6: but come on, we're all here, we're all we're all planning. Yeah,

538
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 6: where where Batman gives the spirit of the Gentleman Ghost

539
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 6: to Papa Midnight. There had been a scene where Papa

540
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 6: Midnight then goes to the back of his store and

541
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 6: like you see a wall vials where he's just been

542
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 6: collecting spirits and this is the like the latest of them,

543
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 6: you know, whether it's some kind of like you know,

544
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 6: supernatural jail, whether it's you know, I'm just holding onto

545
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 6: this for for for my own advantages, unclear, But I

546
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 6: was like that's cool, and they were like, I'm sure

547
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 6: we're not building another animated set. We're here on We're

548
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 6: here in the in the graveyard. This is perfectly fine.

549
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 6: We just gotta we have to, we have to pay

550
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 6: this off. So here's your spirit. What are gonna do

551
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 6: with it? I don't ever know. I'll see you led

552
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 6: to Batman and all he goes into the into the distance.

553
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 6: But he was super fun. It was super fun getting

554
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 6: to play with the supernatural, especially from Midnight's perspective. Who

555
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 6: for him, it's pass him. It's just like this is

556
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 6: just another day, yep, you know, which I think helps

557
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 6: the Batman not be so gobsmacked by there being the supernatural.

558
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 6: If everybody treats it like it's normal, then it's normal.

559
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't have to worry.

560
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: There's a little button line which I thought that was

561
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: perfect for doing exactly this the thing that you're talking about,

562
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 3: where you know, Batman's like he hands over the spirit.

563
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 3: He's like, I guess I do. I want to know

564
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: what you're going to do with that, and Pabamanna, it's

565
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: just like no, like, okay.

566
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: It's done, don't worry about it.

567
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, which, which you know, ties back into the into

568
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 6: the Lucius Fox conversation with Bruce, and it was like,

569
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 6: there's this discretionary fund. Do I want to know what

570
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 6: you do with this money? You probably don't. I remember

571
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 6: like there was some early draft who was like, it's

572
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 6: probably sex type stuff, right, You got a discretionary fund

573
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 6: for for freaky free?

574
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that man's pretty freaking and then he's.

575
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 6: Pretty freaky and like that very quickly fell out of

576
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 6: the episode.

577
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: Making TV, making comics, making anything, it is a labor

578
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: of love, and then you put it out there in

579
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: the world and it exists and it doesn't belong to

580
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: you anymore. What's it been like get to see how

581
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: much people love this show and getting to see you know,

582
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,239
Speaker 2: it's the number one show on Amazon and people are

583
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: responding really well to the Gentleman Ghosts. They think this

584
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: is a super cool idea. They're loving the vibe of

585
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: the show. What's it like to get to make something

586
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: that hits with the right audience.

587
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 6: It is always a surprise, because for as good as

588
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 6: you might think it is, there's a lot of great

589
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 6: stuff that nobody watches. Yep, you know, there's a lot

590
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 6: of good stuff that just falls through the cracks, Like

591
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 6: there's too much stuff in the world. You know, you

592
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 6: can't watch everything even if you try to watch everything

593
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 6: somebody recommended to you, like, it's impossible to do. Yeah,

594
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 6: And so the the the surprise, the joy, the gratitude

595
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 6: of an audience who like finds the work, appreciates the work,

596
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 6: and then tells other people about it, like, hey, you

597
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 6: want to watch this? This is pretty good? Like that is?

598
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 6: That is? That's the dream, you know, to be able

599
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 6: to channel a piece of joy from your childhood and

600
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 6: fashion it into a somewhat new form and then deliver

601
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 6: it into an audience who seems to have been waiting

602
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 6: for it in a way you can't know four years

603
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 6: ago when the process begins. You know, animation just takes

604
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 6: forever to do, and it's always an article of faith

605
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 6: that by the time we're done with this process, there

606
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 6: will be an audience who wants it. And it doesn't

607
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 6: always happen that way, so when it does, it is

608
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 6: always just a treat to be like, oh they liked it.

609
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 6: Oh I'm so happy now.

610
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: Well, Mark, thank you so much for taking the time

611
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 3: to join us. We really appreciate it. Where can people

612
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: find your stuff? Plug whatever projects you would love to plug.

613
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 6: The easiest way to find me is Instagram at Mark

614
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 6: Bernardin on Blue Sky and threads the same. I'm no

615
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 6: longer on the hell site because life is too short. Correct,

616
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 6: I will I will plug. I will plug two things.

617
00:32:54,760 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 6: I will plug Eyes of Wakanda, which is coming hopefully

618
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 6: next year if not. I'm never entirely sure what the

619
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 6: animation schedule is in Marvel, but like the show, I

620
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 6: think is pretty much done, so that just depends on

621
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 6: when they want to reveal it, release it. What have you?

622
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 6: D twenty three that that little blip was promising that

623
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 6: they have faith enough in it to pull to pull

624
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 6: Ryan Coogler out of his Oakland layer and come down

625
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 6: to Anaheim to talk about it. So yeah, I can't

626
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 6: wait till people see that it was. It was so

627
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 6: much fun to work on and some of those stories

628
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 6: are are powerful in ways that I don't think we

629
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 6: expected them in the in the room to be powerful,

630
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 6: going places and telling stories that I don't think an

631
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 6: audience will expect. And then I'm I'm launching a Kickstarter

632
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 6: next week called Deepest Darkest. It's an anthology film that

633
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 6: I'm making with a bunch of other TV writers of

634
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 6: color that I know. We're each writing and directing a chapter.

635
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 6: This is a story about secrets, about the secrets that

636
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 6: we that are too extreme, that are too visual, that

637
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 6: are too heady for us to ever tell anybody, except

638
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 6: that there is one character that sort of wheezed throughout

639
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 6: the anthology who's a bit like Dory and that she

640
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 6: has no short term memory. She forgets things on like

641
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 6: ten minute cycles, which makes her a perfect confessionist to

642
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 6: listen to your secret, absolve you of your sins, and

643
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 6: then forget everything you told her. And so it's a

644
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 6: bit of like a Black Mirrory kind of anthology where

645
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 6: we just we go dark on what's the deepest, darkest

646
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 6: secret you have and then put her on the stage.

647
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 6: And so yeah, that's that launches next Tuesday, the twenty

648
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: seventh kickstarter. It's all over everything that I've told you

649
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 6: about where I could be and yeah, that's the thing

650
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 6: that's exciting me the most. Cool.

651
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much, Mark it theightful.

652
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 6: This was a blast, gang, Thank you for the invite.

653
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: And we're back for our recap of the back half

654
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: of Cape Crusader Season one on Amazon Prime Video, and

655
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 3: we're on to episode seven Moving Target, written by Adama

656
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: Ebo and Adan Ebo, directed by Christina Sada and oh Man.

657
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 3: This is the episode that really drives home just how

658
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 3: corrupt ends beyond redemption Gotham is.

659
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know they're calling Matt Reeves Batman Universe.

660
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: I think they're calling it something hilarious, like the epic

661
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: Batman Crime Universe. I feel like you probably don't need

662
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: to have epic there, but I like the implication that

663
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: the Penguin, the Batman, It's all going to be this

664
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: exploration of crime and corruption in Gotham, and this episode

665
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: definitely feels like it's totally seated in that space, like

666
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: this is Assassin's This is people trying to kill Jim Gordon,

667
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: the one good person in Gotham, the one moral compass.

668
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: Also outrageous weird characters here, like on a matter Payer,

669
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: who was created by Kevin smithan is.

670
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: This his animated debut?

671
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: I think this may well be his animated debut and

672
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: uh and yeah, I just think that, to me is

673
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: what this show does so well. It can take something

674
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: that's completely outrageous and is in itself a joke. Because

675
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: honomatter Payer is what we call you know, the biff

676
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: bang pow sound effects, and make it into something that

677
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: feels completely grounded, completely serious, and I think as well,

678
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: like you know, for Kevin Smith, he he did a

679
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: tweet and he was like, I can't believe that this

680
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: Green Arrow villain created by me, Phil Hester Andy Parks

681
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: is in the new Batman Cape Crusader, Like this is

682
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: it's crazy to see my bad guy and Bruce Tim's

683
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: return to Gotham, and yeah, it.

684
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: Is so good.

685
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: Also, so another I love how they've kind of made

686
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: Barbara her importance in this series, whether it's on the

687
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 2: Batman side, whether it's on the Gordon side, whether it's

688
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: in the crime. They know how important Barbara Gordon is

689
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: to Gotham, and this episode really leans into this way

690
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: to get to Gym. She's also like fearless. I love

691
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: the Ebo Twins. I think they're smashing it. So I

692
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: was very happy to see them writing an episode like this,

693
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 2: which was just such a joy.

694
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 3: There's also the I found it so such a like

695
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: trenchant commentary on like how fucked up Gotham is that?

696
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that the entire scheme, which was just like

697
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: a you know, they hit on Gordon spoiler you've watched

698
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: it by now, I hope the Yeah, the Gordon threat

699
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: was the distraction. The real person they were trying to

700
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 3: get was Barbara. And the whole thing was said in

701
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: motion because a guy wanted like a nicer prison cell.

702
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 3: Like that's how cheap life is in Gotham.

703
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: That's how cheap it is.

704
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: Like that's and that's kind of like this interesting commentary

705
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: as well on like is it just better to stay

706
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: in prisons in Gotham, like rather than rehabilitate yourself and

707
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: get out? Is life too expensive outside of prison where

708
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: you'd rather just order a hit on someone so that

709
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: you could get a little bit of a better accommodation

710
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 2: inside as Yeah, they're doing some really cool stuff here.

711
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: Years ago I wrote this piece when they announced that

712
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: there would be like a GCPD series. I believe it

713
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: probably would have been about twenty let's see GCPD series,

714
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 2: but they were going to do like a Gotham CPD

715
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: series based on the very beloved kind of comic book.

716
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 2: And after the Batman, you know, I said, well, there's

717
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: only one way you can do the show. Oh, this

718
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty as well, so and I said,

719
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: you got to a show where you're basically dismantling the

720
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: Gotham CEPD because it's so corrupt. You can essentially use

721
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: it as a space to explore the ideas of like abolition,

722
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: or how would a city look without a police force?

723
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 2: What use is a police force in Gotham when ninety

724
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: percent of the police are corrupt. And I actually do

725
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: feel like this show, again, kind of behind that guise

726
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: of like it's an animated show and people think, oh,

727
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: it's for kids or whatever, is actually interrogating those very

728
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: same things. And this is just why I love the

729
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 2: Matt Reeves Batman universe. I think he's doing so much

730
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: of what we've all wanted our Batman stories to explore.

731
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: Up next episode eight Nocturn, written by Haley Gross, directed

732
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: by Matt Peters, and oh.

733
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: It's about to start, baby, poor complex of episodes that

734
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: are just gonna absolutely decimate you.

735
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: He is going through it.

736
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: A couple notable things about this episode. Of course, we

737
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: get the long awaited in the context of this season

738
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: turn of Harvey Dent towards his alter ego of two Face,

739
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: and we maybe meet Robin potentially.

740
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 4: Man.

741
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: I feel really bad for Harvey. Harvey has been mostly

742
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 3: a scumbag throughout this season.

743
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 2: Very interesting choice, by the way, as well, the idea

744
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: that he was already corrupted rather than incorruptible until two face.

745
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 3: Naked ambition all the way as he is trying to

746
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: gain the mayor's office. And in this episode, you know,

747
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: to speaking about the corruption of Gotham City, we understood,

748
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 3: we come to realize just how deep Harvey Dent is

749
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 3: with that corruption and the lengths he will try to

750
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: go to to get himself elected. And yet there is

751
00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 3: still that bit of spine in Harvey that at the

752
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 3: final moment he says, no, I can't.

753
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going to drop the charges.

754
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do it.

755
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 6: I have to.

756
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: This is not about it. It becomes like not about

757
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,479
Speaker 3: the mayor's office and not about his ambition, becomes about

758
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: right and wrong. He does the right thing, and that

759
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 3: is the thing that leads him to get acid thrown

760
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: in his face and his turn to the dark side begins.

761
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: I found this to via just a tragic episode in

762
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 3: a lot of ways.

763
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: I think so too, And I think what they did

764
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: here that was very very clever is you know, we

765
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: got on a mat payer in the last episode, and

766
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: we do have like Anton Knight and we have Natalia Knight.

767
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: So that is a little bit of like Batman weirdness

768
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: here because they're sucking energy from people. But generally, I

769
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 2: feel like when this moment happened where you get dense

770
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: face being you know, disfigured by the acid, it felt

771
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: much more horrific and much more like we were watching

772
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: something where somebody, you know, acid attacks happened, and this

773
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 2: felt much closer to that than the kind of usual

774
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: pulpy strangeness of like, oh now he's two faced. Well, actually,

775
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: this Dent has been balancing that line, as Joelle like.

776
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: Perfectly put in these notes.

777
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: She said, he's been balancing that line between like greasing

778
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: the wheel and actually wanting to make Gotham better this

779
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: whole time.

780
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: So two face he already was.

781
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: This is just like a really tragic kind of tipping point,

782
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: and I just, yeah, I felt like they went serious

783
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: when they needed to go serious, and it starts off

784
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: this great kind of three part finisher for this season.

785
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a.

786
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 4: Quick break and we're back.

787
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 7: Yeah.

788
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 3: I just love the the balance of Dent and the

789
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 3: way you come to understand that Harvey has crossed a

790
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 3: lot of lines.

791
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 6: He is.

792
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: A self promoter, a nakedly ambitious guy, and at the

793
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: same time, part of what drives him is he has

794
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: rationalized all of this line stepping by saying, Okay, well,

795
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: let me just get into the mayor's office and then

796
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: I will have the power to really change this city. Yeah,

797
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: And everything that I do, all the ways that I

798
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: cross into the gray zone, that I you know, blur

799
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: the lines between right and wrong, all of that will

800
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 3: be worth it when I get there, because then I

801
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 3: can really fix this city.

802
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: Then I can do good.

803
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 3: And then I can do good. And you know, he's he,

804
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: I think, mostly crosses the line in a way that

805
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 3: loses sight of that promise. But then he rededicates himself

806
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: to that thing right at the moment when he's asked

807
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 3: to truly corrupt himself beyond redemption and drop the charges.

808
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 3: And the fact again that that leads to the attack

809
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: on him, and that's the thing that pushes him over

810
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: the edge is really sad and just really affective storytelling.

811
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: And also as well, I think it takes away like

812
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 2: some of the inherent ableism of like, oh, when his

813
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: fate when he becomes disabled, he becomes evil. No, actually,

814
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: him doing something good and sticking to his morals ended

815
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: up being the reason that somebody attacked him. And now

816
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: he has to deal with that duality. And also, obviously

817
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 2: what lesson does that teach him that doing the right

818
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: thing is going to be personally bad for him, And

819
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: it kind of leads to these last two episodes which

820
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: are just really tragic.

821
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go to the episode nine, The Killer Inside Me,

822
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: written by Jase Ritchie, directed by Christopher Berkeley, and he

823
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 3: we see Harvey Dent really just lose his grip. He

824
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: had been trying to play this double game up until now,

825
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: you know, doing bad things for the right reasons, with

826
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: the hope that one day he could be the person

827
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 3: who could fix the city. And he is coming to

828
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: terms with the fact that in his mind it was

829
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 3: never gonna work. It was naive of him to think

830
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 3: that the city could ever be redeemed, and the only

831
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: way now to deal with this city is by becoming

832
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: the thing that the city respects, which is chaos and violence.

833
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really sad to see this journey, and again

834
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: we're really getting here this kind of duality of is

835
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: this another reflection of Batman, like how does Gotham impact

836
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: every person who lived inside it and out? Then and

837
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: Bruce our friends here, so we get that even more.

838
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just think this is really sad because

839
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: he is again seeking that justice against those who wronged him.

840
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: And you could say Batman is doing the same thing,

841
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: so how different are they? But obviously Dent takes it

842
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: in a much more bleak direction, and yeah, it's it's

843
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: really sad. And then you know, you get the ending

844
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: where he goes to Arkham. He like willingly goes to

845
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: Arkham Asylum because.

846
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: He is again that good side comes out.

847
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: And he's like, I need to be I need to

848
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: protect Gotham from myself.

849
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also need to be protected from myself.

850
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 3: And that brings us to the finale Savage Night. I

851
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 3: should say, by the way, that Killer Inside Me that

852
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 3: is a reference to reference.

853
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: To there's so many great Nuir nods.

854
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, wonderful reference to the nineteen fifty two Big Jim

855
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: Thompson novel The Killer Inside Me, which if you like

856
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: like hard boiled pulp crime and you want fast reads,

857
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: like two day, three day weekend reads, Big Jim Thompson

858
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 3: pick up almost anything. And The Killer Inside Me is

859
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: really cool because it's probably his most experimental novel where

860
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: it just delves into the mind and the psychosis of

861
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 3: a hardened killer in a really like in a way

862
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: that is much more experimental than anything else that Big

863
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 3: Jim Thompson has written.

864
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: And also Jim Thompson Savage Night is another one of

865
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: his novels, so they were really leaning into it here

866
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 2: and I love it. This is not afraid to show

867
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: its love for its noir influence.

868
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 3: Savage Night written by Ed Bruce Baker, directed by Christina Soda.

869
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, Ed, here, baby, you know it's going to

870
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: be good. He's a noir legend.

871
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 6: Here.

872
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 3: It is the conference between Batman, between Dent, between the

873
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: Dirty Cops, and all of the threads that we've seen

874
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: woven through season one coming to a head here in

875
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 3: just like an incredible finale that, to your point, is

876
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: an interrogation of Batman and his methods in a lot

877
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: of ways, through the Dirty Cops through Two Face. It

878
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 3: makes you think about what Batman is doing and really

879
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 3: ask yourself and ask Batman, what makes you the hero?

880
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, what's different about that?

881
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: What's different about what you do.

882
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: What's different about what you do?

883
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: And also something that I love here is we get

884
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 2: that moment after you know, Dent sacrifices himself once again,

885
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: his goodness overcoming his kind of vengeance, right, but Batman

886
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: almost loses it after that, and we get this great

887
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: moment where he threatens to shoot Flass And I'm sure

888
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: for a lot of viewers they were like, oh, that's

889
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: so weird. One Batman doesn't kill, two why does he

890
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: have a gun? But the original Golden Age, early Batman comics,

891
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 2: he does shoot people and they do die, and he

892
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 2: you know, hangs people out.

893
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 3: Of free cold baby Fred.

894
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: He was much more of that noirh hero that we

895
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: were used to. So I loved that this was a

896
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: throwback to that and also that ultimate conversation about you know,

897
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 2: people say Batman doesn't kill, trust me go to ign.

898
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: I wrote like a three thousand word piece on it.

899
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: He does kill sometimes. So it's a very murky space.

900
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: But I love that in this moment Alfred, you know,

901
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: it's like what Alfred says. He says like Dent did

902
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: lose his humanity, but you've still got yours, I will say.

903
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 6: I also, I.

904
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 2: Don't know if I agree with that, because I think

905
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: dentse humanity is what made him sacrifice himself to save Barbara.

906
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: But Batman is still able to nact is humanity. But yeah,

907
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: like you said, this is a great interrogation of that,

908
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: like the whole series. Really we talked to Mark about it.

909
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 2: What does Batman do and is it useful?

910
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 6: Yeah?

911
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: And like is he I.

912
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 2: Was recently writing about the new Sailor Moon movie, which

913
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: is a two part ova on Netflix called Sailor Moon Cosmos.

914
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: It's delightful.

915
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: It actually adapts the final arc of the Incredible manga.

916
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 2: But I wrote an article for IGN that was, like,

917
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 2: the whole two part event is about the question of

918
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: what happens when you become a superhero? Do the villains

919
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 2: come to you or do you go to the villains?

920
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: And by being a superhero, do you create the villains?

921
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: And so it has this really great evocative storyline about

922
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: that that I feel like it answers in a much

923
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: better way than a lot of comics do because it's

924
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: an ending, it's a true ending, so you can really

925
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: answer that question. And obviously with Sailor Moon, it's about love,

926
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: it's about compassion, it's about forgiveness. But I love that

927
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: we're still having these conversations because we all know that's

928
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 2: the biggest question. If Batman didn't exist, with the Joker exists, right,

929
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 2: you know that's what we're always asking I speaking of

930
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: the Joker, here he is.

931
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 3: We get Little Teas season two, Loving Man season two.

932
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 2: Baby, So somebody has been killing a series of victims

933
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: with a toxin that makes them laugh uncontrollably.

934
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: I wonder could be who kid me?

935
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: I'm so excited for that. This series has retconned almost

936
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 3: all the characters and certainly all of the Rogues Gallery

937
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: in really fascinating ways. Yeah, and I wonder what they'll

938
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: do with the Joker. I am so exciting, really excited

939
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 3: to see.

940
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:54,919
Speaker 1: What they do with the Joker.

941
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: I honestly think this is like quite a modern masterpiece

942
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 2: of storyteller. I feel like we're very lucky to live

943
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: in an era where we can get X Men ninety seven,

944
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: which is fully embraced in the nostalgia and making us

945
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 2: feel like we're back as kids again reading X Men,

946
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: picking it up off the wall, watching X Men ninety two,

947
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: and then get something like this that says, well, you

948
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: are the kids who watched Batman, the animated series, But

949
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 2: what if you've grown up with it, What if you're

950
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: an adult now, which we all are, what would you

951
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 2: like to watch? And it's something completely different. I mean,

952
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: to get both of these in one year is incredibly lucky.

953
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 3: Well, we'll be looking forward to that. Of next we're

954
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: reacting to The Crow, the remake.

955
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 7: Of the nineteen ninety one four Wow, nineteen ninety four

956
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 7: action film starring a little Brother Scars Guard Billy Yeah, Billy,

957
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 7: Billy Scars.

958
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: It is uploxed, all right, Rosie the Crow twenty twenty

959
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 3: five version.

960
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: It's out.

961
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 3: It's out now, directed by Rupert Sanders, starring Bill Scarsguard

962
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 3: Fka Twiggs, and Danny Houston. Your thoughts about The Crow?

963
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: Okay, surprising nobody here.

964
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure I actually thought this was a very enjoyable movie.

965
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: I liked the reinterpretation obviously.

966
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: Look there's a nineteen ninety four version of The Crow

967
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: starring Brandon Lee, which was a movie he was making

968
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: when he died because of an issue with a weapon

969
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 2: onset that killed him.

970
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: And that movie is iconic.

971
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: It's beautiful, it's legendary, and I will say I think

972
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: they should have not tried to do another version of

973
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 2: James Obarr's The Crow, which is the comic book that

974
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: it's based on, So all of that in context, I

975
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 2: never thought this was a particularly good idea. I will

976
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 2: say I do not think the marketing for this movie

977
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: was good. I think it made it look like it

978
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 2: was going to be a Suicide Squad esque edgy kind

979
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: of nonsense fest, and actually I found it to be

980
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: quite a romantic, sweet story that was also weird and

981
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: then really really violent at the end.

982
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: I feel like my letterbox review was basically.

983
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 2: That I think it will come to be seen as

984
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 2: like this Generation's like Queen of the Damned, so a

985
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 2: movie where I think in the future people are gonna

986
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 2: say I love this movie or Twilight.

987
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: You know.

988
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 2: This also was giving big Twilight vibes to me. It's

989
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 2: like the movie is not a brilliantly crafted movie, though

990
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 2: it does look rather than nice, and it is a

991
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 2: total reinterpretation. And my favorite thing about it is that

992
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 2: they make Shelley a main character instead of essentially just

993
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: fridging her, which would which does make sense in the

994
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 2: context of the comics, because the comic is an exploration

995
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 2: of grief by James Obarr, So that's why it happened

996
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: that way. But for me, I actually feel like this

997
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 2: does not deserve that crazy Rotten Tomatoes review. I think

998
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: people it's easy to shit on a movie like this.

999
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: And if you remember when Constantine came out, it was

1000
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: critically dragged. When you know Twilight came out critically dragged,

1001
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 2: When Queen of the Dam came out critically dragged, all

1002
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 2: of those movies. You could have many arguments about whether

1003
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 2: or not their cinematic masterpieces. But I do believe this

1004
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: movie will find its audience, likely in teenagers now who

1005
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: will find it, think it's cool, and then in twenty

1006
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: years will enjoy kind of the campy nature of it.

1007
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: So that's my feeling. Jason, how about you.

1008
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 3: I thought this was a bad movie, but with some

1009
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 3: interesting things about it, and certainly not a bad movie

1010
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 3: where I'm sitting there and I'm hating my life. You

1011
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,240
Speaker 3: know this is not gonna let there be carnage type

1012
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 3: of situation, But also neither it is. Is it a

1013
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 3: Madam Web where.

1014
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 1: The camp that's true, it didn't go that far.

1015
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, where the camp is so dialed up that it's

1016
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 3: kind of fun.

1017
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: With how bad it is.

1018
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 3: There's certainly campy elements to this start. Of the things

1019
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 3: I liked, I liked to your point. I liked that

1020
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 3: they significantly changed the original James O. Bar story that is,

1021
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: you know, a classic in the genre of fridging, and they,

1022
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 3: to your point, made Shelley more of an active participant

1023
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: in the story. I think Bill Scarsguard is wonderful, and

1024
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 3: I think FK. Twigs is really good, and I think

1025
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: it looks great. And I also loved the weirder like

1026
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: supernatural turns. That's was actually the most compelling stuff to

1027
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: me was like the weird shit.

1028
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: I think they should have gone weird weird could have

1029
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 2: found an audience quicker.

1030
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 3: So this is it's like part weird, part john Wick.

1031
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: And my opinion is that they should have picked a

1032
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 3: ling either get a lot weirder or get a lot

1033
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 3: more john Wick. Now the stuff that was, I think

1034
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 3: they made it hard for themselves because you know, the

1035
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 3: original Crow, the Crow when he comes back just can fight,

1036
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 3: and it's you don't need to explain why he was

1037
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 3: just a guy. But when he comes back supernaturally all

1038
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 3: of a sudden, like he's got martial arts moves. Yeah,

1039
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: and you didn't wonder about it. In this movie, there's

1040
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: like this you know, he comes back, Eric comes back,

1041
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 3: and it is still just a guy and his really

1042
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 3: can just like absorb bullets, but he's not really able

1043
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 3: to fight really for the whole movie, and so you've got.

1044
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: What you've got is an action film in which the

1045
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 3: action is kind of just like not that compelling because

1046
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 3: it's a guy just getting shot over and over, yeah,

1047
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 3: and he doesn't know, he doesn't have like moves that.

1048
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: He uses, you know.

1049
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 2: And then at the end he just becomes incredibly proficient

1050
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: with the samurai saword and you get this kind of

1051
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: explosive anime level goal, which is another weird element of

1052
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 2: the film.

1053
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 3: And so I thought that they made it hard for

1054
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 3: themselves in that regard, Like I think it probably I

1055
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 3: think it's a better movie if you know, fuck the

1056
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 3: fact that Eric, you know, was like a part time

1057
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 3: like delinquent who didn't really work out and probably couldn't fight,

1058
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: like just make it so he could fight, just make

1059
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 3: it can fight, And I think that would have made

1060
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 3: it easier for them, But not a particularly great film.

1061
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 3: I also wonder about releasing it, Like I was asking myself,

1062
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 3: like why now? Why why now?

1063
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: I also was like in a world where and I

1064
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: love the theatrical experience, and good I did have a

1065
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: good theatrical experience watching this, but in a world where

1066
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: a movie like Prey, which was just so astonishing, ended

1067
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: up going straight to streaming and becoming a big hit.

1068
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: I feel like this, if this had gone to Netflix,

1069
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: it would have been the number one movie this weekend

1070
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: on Netflix. And sure it probably would have been because

1071
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: people are like, this is so bad, it's good, or

1072
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 2: you've got like watch the Crow and then you can

1073
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: watch the Old Crow on Netflix too, But like, this

1074
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: feels like it could have gone to streaming and had

1075
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: a more successful, less kind of like Rotten Tomatoes defined relationship,

1076
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: and it didn't make very much money at the movies.

1077
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: At all, So this is a dub.

1078
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 2: This is very wild to me that Lionsgate just went

1079
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: ahead with releasing this after Borderlands flopped.

1080
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: For them, So this is like a two in a

1081
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: row flop.

1082
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 2: Now, I don't feel like this deserved to flop, but

1083
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: it also doesn't feel like a movie that's coming out

1084
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four.

1085
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: It feels like a movie that's coming out in twenty ten.

1086
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, the latest box office figures on a budget of

1087
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 3: fifty million is like less than eight million.

1088
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Lionsgate only had to make ten million dollars

1089
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 2: on this movie because that's how much they acquired it

1090
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: for distribution.

1091
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: But they may get there. They haven't even made that, yeah,

1092
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: but they may get there. But they may get there.

1093
00:59:59,320 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 2: You know.

1094
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 3: Not a great not a great movie, but certainly one

1095
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 3: when it comes on streaming or is ratable, that I

1096
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 3: think is worth checking out.

1097
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: I think people will. I think I think it will

1098
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: find its audience.

1099
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: But I also think that this is a good lesson

1100
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 2: in like when you have something that is lightning in

1101
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 2: a bottle like the Crow, especially if somebody like an

1102
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 2: icon like Brandon Lee, yeah, passed away while making it,

1103
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: you know, the son of Bruce Lee. I think you

1104
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: just leave it be, man Like, just leave it be.

1105
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: Even though I enjoyed this movie, that's just my.

1106
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: Advice in the future. And that's it for our episode today.

1107
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 2: Guys, Jason had to run because he just bought himself

1108
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: a nice bat wing and he's taking a fight.

1109
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: I hope you all enjoyed it. Thanks again to Mark

1110
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: Bernardin for joining us.

1111
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: Stay tuned Tomorrow we are back with the Rings of

1112
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: Power episode. Join us for our recap of the season

1113
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: two premiere and an interview with All Round Legend and

1114
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: Rings of Power Executive producing director Charlotte Branstrom. That's all

1115
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 2: for now, bye.

1116
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 3: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Ncepcion and Rosie

1117
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 3: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive

1118
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer

1119
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 3: is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and

1120
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 3: Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

1121
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman

1122
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: and Heidi A discolled moderata